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Chadman
04-06-2015, 06:35 PM
I think we are all, at times, guilty of predicting a Steelers draft based on what we perceive as the Steelers needs.

Just as a matter of exercise, going over "the Big Board" on a number of sites, what became apparent to me is that there is possibly a good reason to not 'overdraft' either an OLB or CB on this draft.

There are still quality OLB types available for certain in Round 2 areas, and even into the 3rd round type grades. Why reach for a 'questionable' OLB type like Bud Dupree if you could get just as 'questionable' types of OLB's like Kikaha or Nate Orchard with the Steelers 2nd pick?

Why draft the 3rd or 4th best CB, a Jalen Collins (who started 10 games only) or Kevin Johnson (who looks to be a solid player, if not spectacular), when there is depth at Cb through into even round 5. I'm not suggesting you don't draft a CB until Round 5, but there is depth at the position well into those kinds of numbers.

There is a significant drop-off in talent after the first 5-6 DT's, same with OT's. After Max Williams, most TE's seem to come with good parts & warts as well, with no significant drop-off until round 4 or so.

The strength of the Safety class kicks in around the back-end of Round 2.

At #22, the Steelers are unlikely to be drafting an 'elite' talent. So drafting a CB because 'we need one', or picking 'the best remaining OLB' might not be good draft 'value'.

That said, and Andrus Peat, Eddie Goldman, Ereck Flowers, TJ Clemmings or Malcolm Brown could be as close to 'elite' as the Steelers can pick up, knowing that after these guys are gone, the other options in this draft are much weaker...

K Train
04-06-2015, 07:17 PM
I don't disagree...BPA has to be weighted slightly towards needs and there's no formula for it but you gotta stick to your board somewhat.

That said....peat, Goldman, clemmings, and flowers are all players that always leave me wanting more when I watch them. Highly inconsistent with questionable ability at the next level proving physical talents aren't enough sometimes....Malcolm brown is about as solid as solid comes though

Cornerback is especially deep this year and OLB can be addressed with golden, mauldin, orchard, or hunter in round two....I'd have a hard time taking an oline man not named sherff in round 1 and you can assume RB and QB are off the table, probably MLB too which is the deepest position on the team....other than that if a devante Parker or maxx Williams are the best players left on you board, maybe you pull the trigger

Chadman
04-06-2015, 07:53 PM
I don't disagree...BPA has to be weighted slightly towards needs and there's no formula for it but you gotta stick to your board somewhat.

That said....peat, Goldman, clemmings, and flowers are all players that always leave me wanting more when I watch them. Highly inconsistent with questionable ability at the next level proving physical talents aren't enough sometimes....Malcolm brown is about as solid as solid comes though

Cornerback is especially deep this year and OLB can be addressed with golden, mauldin, orchard, or hunter in round two....I'd have a hard time taking an oline man not named sherff in round 1 and you can assume RB and QB are off the table, probably MLB too which is the deepest position on the team....other than that if a devante Parker or maxx Williams are the best players left on you board, maybe you pull the trigger

What's your take on Orchard compared to Kikaha?

K Train
04-07-2015, 12:37 AM
i like orchard a lot more...might start out as a situational rusher but kikaha is and has been very injury prone and undersized, quick, but not reliable

watch orchard abuse peat vs stanford, he looks like terrell suggs in that game

Oviedo
04-07-2015, 05:18 AM
I think we are all, at times, guilty of predicting a Steelers draft based on what we perceive as the Steelers needs.

Just as a matter of exercise, going over "the Big Board" on a number of sites, what became apparent to me is that there is possibly a good reason to not 'overdraft' either an OLB or CB on this draft.

There are still quality OLB types available for certain in Round 2 areas, and even into the 3rd round type grades. Why reach for a 'questionable' OLB type like Bud Dupree if you could get just as 'questionable' types of OLB's like Kikaha or Nate Orchard with the Steelers 2nd pick?

Why draft the 3rd or 4th best CB, a Jalen Collins (who started 10 games only) or Kevin Johnson (who looks to be a solid player, if not spectacular), when there is depth at Cb through into even round 5. I'm not suggesting you don't draft a CB until Round 5, but there is depth at the position well into those kinds of numbers.

There is a significant drop-off in talent after the first 5-6 DT's, same with OT's. After Max Williams, most TE's seem to come with good parts & warts as well, with no significant drop-off until round 4 or so.

The strength of the Safety class kicks in around the back-end of Round 2.

At #22, the Steelers are unlikely to be drafting an 'elite' talent. So drafting a CB because 'we need one', or picking 'the best remaining OLB' might not be good draft 'value'.

That said, and Andrus Peat, Eddie Goldman, Ereck Flowers, TJ Clemmings or Malcolm Brown could be as close to 'elite' as the Steelers can pick up, knowing that after these guys are gone, the other options in this draft are much weaker...


At #22 the player likely to be on the board who is head and shoulders above anyone else at his position will be TE Maxx Williams. He is clearly the cream of the TE crop this year. If you want the best player at a positon who will be available at #22 it will be him. Plus this is a position of need too.

RuthlessBurgher
04-07-2015, 09:16 AM
At #22 the player likely to be on the board who is head and shoulders above anyone else at his position will be TE Maxx Williams. He is clearly the cream of the TE crop this year. If you want the best player at a positon who will be available at #22 it will be him. Plus this is a position of need too.

I see better value with Clive Walford at #56 than Maxx Williams at #22. We like well-rounded tight ends rather than the athletic big quasi-wideout types, and Clive is a much better blocker than Maxx. Maxx is best suited as a "move" TE that is en vogue in the league right now, while Clive can be the inline TE we prefer. You may not get the remarkable body control to keep his feet in bounds on the sidelines and such, but he could help spring Bell/Williams/Archer, etc. for a big play by sealing the edge. And it's not as if Maxx's production blows Clive out of the water or anything either. Last year, Maxx had 36 catches for 569 yards and 8 TD's while Clive had 44 catches for 676 yards and 7 TD's. The year before, Maxx had 25 catches for 417 yards and 5 TD's while Clive had 34 catches for 454 yards and 2 TD's. The main advantage that Maxx has is age, since we like to draft 'em young, and Maxx turns 21 this weekend while Clive will be turning 24 this October. Don't get me wrong, I like Maxx Williams as a player, but I don't love him at #22. I think Clive Walford would provide better value if we could get him at #56 instead, and it seems to me that he would be a better fit in our system as well.

squidkid
04-07-2015, 09:30 PM
It almost seems like we can break this down. I dont see a QB, RB, WR, DT, ILB, P, K or G being drafted in the first round. Out of the remaining positions possible, who do you think would still be available at 22 AND worthy of the pick.

TE- Williams
S- Collins
OLB- Harold, Dupree, Armstead
CB- Collins, Peters, Johnson
OT- Collins, Humphries

K Train
04-07-2015, 09:42 PM
It almost seems like we can break this down. I dont see a QB, RB, WR, DT, ILB, P, K or G being drafted in the first round. Out of the remaining positions possible, who do you think would still be available at 22 AND worthy of the pick.

TE- Williams
S- Collins
OLB- Harold, Dupree, Armstead
CB- Collins, Peters, Johnson
OT- Collins, Humphries

I could see Williams, peters, Johnson, Harold, and Dupree as real viable options

Too many Collins but La'el would be an absolutely crushing LG for us, but that's so much invested in an interior oline that a already pretty good.

I don't like Landon Collins. We would have 3 SS on the roster and no real FS, would prefer they look towards Rowe or Randall or shaw as a potential FS, even tartt.

Jalen Collins is just so raw, it would be tough to take him at 22 at least Kevin Johnson brings a polished skillset

Harold would be a very unfulfilling pick but it's hard to deny his potential, he and Dupree look the part that's for sure. Harold is a pick I'm prepared for though. Very young and very talented, just hard to tell if we're looking at a 15 sack caliber player or a 3 sack caliber player

Peters would be my pick out of all those guys. A legit top ten talent and a potentially shut down man to man corner. I hope Gregory falls though, I haven't heard anything about the, meeting with peters which generally means he's not on their radar

RuthlessBurgher
04-07-2015, 11:19 PM
It almost seems like we can break this down. I dont see a QB, RB, WR, DT, ILB, P, K or G being drafted in the first round. Out of the remaining positions possible, who do you think would still be available at 22 AND worthy of the pick.

TE- Williams
S- Collins
OLB- Harold, Dupree, Armstead
CB- Collins, Peters, Johnson
OT- Collins, Humphries

If it comes down to choosing between Collins, Collins, or Collins, I would personally like us to draft Collins, you would probably rather draft Collins, and the team, of course, would likely prefer Collins instead. When it comes to the first round of the 2015 NFL Draft, though, at least we know that we will be sure to get our Collinsworth. ;)

Captain Lemming
04-08-2015, 09:58 AM
It almost seems like we can break this down. I dont see a QB, RB, WR, DT, ILB, P, K or G being drafted in the first round. Out of the remaining positions possible, who do you think would still be available at 22 AND worthy of the pick.


Hmmmm.
I got one.

Best available CENTER? :)

squidkid
04-08-2015, 03:00 PM
Hmmmm.
I got one.

Best available CENTER? :)


ooops, center was so far off my list of positions i forgot to add it

squidkid
04-08-2015, 03:12 PM
I could see Williams, peters, Johnson, Harold, and Dupree as real viable options

Too many Collins but La'el would be an absolutely crushing LG for us, but that's so much invested in an interior oline that a already pretty good.

I don't like Landon Collins. We would have 3 SS on the roster and no real FS, would prefer they look towards Rowe or Randall or shaw as a potential FS, even tartt.

Jalen Collins is just so raw, it would be tough to take him at 22 at least Kevin Johnson brings a polished skillset

Harold would be a very unfulfilling pick but it's hard to deny his potential, he and Dupree look the part that's for sure. Harold is a pick I'm prepared for though. Very young and very talented, just hard to tell if we're looking at a 15 sack caliber player or a 3 sack caliber player

Peters would be my pick out of all those guys. A legit top ten talent and a potentially shut down man to man corner. I hope Gregory falls though, I haven't heard anything about the, meeting with peters which generally means he's not on their radar

im not sure we would have 3 ss if l. collins was the pick. shark has shown nothing and mitchell sucked last year.
i agree a j. collins but he sure shows up a lot when it comes to combine, pro days, visits and mock drafts being linked to the steelers.
i also dont think m. williams would be the pick. i just dont see the steelers putting much emphasis on the TE position when it comes to catching passes. i dont think an inline TE should be a first round pick.

K Train
04-08-2015, 03:24 PM
im not sure we would have 3 ss if l. collins was the pick. shark has shown nothing and mitchell sucked last year.
i agree a j. collins but he sure shows up a lot when it comes to combine, pro days, visits and mock drafts being linked to the steelers.
i also dont think m. williams would be the pick. i just dont see the steelers putting much emphasis on the TE position when it comes to catching passes. i dont think an inline TE should be a first round pick.
Oh dont get me wrong, Landon would spell a certain end to our run with Shamarko but I think they are seriously going to try Mitchell at SS this year (which is best for him if its not just a straight cover 2)

Landon Collins is a devastating hitter, a sound tackler, and is good in short/intermediate zone coverage....they need a safety with range that can play single high and occasionally man up and range is exactly what Collins lacks.

Jalen Collins may very well be the best CB in the class one day...sample size is extra small for him though and that makes it pretty scary despite his gaudy size/speed combo and program pedigree

I highly doubt Maxx is the pick, but he would bring a very difficult to stop presence to the offense. Heath plays fired up but he looks a lot slower than he did in 2012. I think Maxx is a very exciting player and could be a dynamic matchup problem, especially with such a potent outside passing attack and running game already in place. Unlikely, but TE is probably the weakest offensive position in the league...having a great one makes a big difference, having a good one, not so much...a lot of teams have "good" ones but only two have elite TEs. Guess it depends how they believe he will be...are you getting a dynamic playmaker with him or are you getting a Greg Olsen/Heath Miller