Predict the Outcome/Punishment Contest

[squidkid]

Outcome: Goodell miraculously won't be able to find evidence to blame one or more persons for the under inflation.
Punishmnet: Goodell will feel the pressure to do something and will slap the Pats on the wrist for $50K.

[hawaiiansteel]

http://redanglespanish.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/doublesecretprobation.jpg

[DukieBoy]

The Pats will get some showcase fines, some underlings will be scapegoated and fired, and the Pat come out with a handsome net gain on the $$$ balance sheet fomr their super bowl appearance.

[MCHammer]

The outcome will be that Brady, Belichick and the Patriots are forever tainted as cheaters and their accomplishments are irreversibly tarnished. No matter what happens in this Superbowl, Brady is no longer in the conversation with Montana, Bradshaw and the rest. Well actually, he may still be mentioned in the conversation from time to time, it's just that conversation will always include the fact that he is a cheater.

[Northern_Blitz]

I think that the "investigation" will go past the SB.

If the Pats win, they will get nothing.

If they lose, maybe as much as suspending Billy B or Tom Brady.

[Sugar]

Hopefully, they are fined and nothing else. The NFL will start watching these things more carefully going forward. I just don't think it's a big deal, but enough people have been whining about it that the Commish will feel like he's got to do something, so I expect a big fine and the firing of somebody on the equipment side in the Patriots organization.

[SS Laser]

Hopefully, they are fined and nothing else. The NFL will start watching these things more carefully going forward. I just don't think it's a big deal, but enough people have been whining about it that the Commish will feel like he's got to do something, so I expect a big fine and the firing of somebody on the equipment side in the Patriots organization. Really? What other crap are they pulling to win at any cost? That's a shame you feel that way sir. How much crap have they pulled to send the Steelers home out of the playoffs? Such a shame it is no big deal.

[7 UP]

Patriots will get a slap on the wrist, and it wont come until well after the Super Bowl. I would guess the Patriots end up with a fine, and the loss of a mid to late round draft pick. Announcement will come some time in March. Patriots will not stop breaking rules. They will just keep getting better at not getting caught.

[Slapstick]

Hopefully, they are fined and nothing else. The NFL will start watching these things more carefully going forward. I just don't think it's a big deal, but enough people have been whining about it that the Commish will feel like he's got to do something, so I expect a big fine and the firing of somebody on the equipment side in the Patriots organization.

This is completely insane. Also, unfortunately, the punishment prediction is probably accurate.

[bostonsteeler]

Hopefully, they are fined and nothing else. The NFL will start watching these things more carefully going forward. I just don't think it's a big deal, but enough people have been whining about it that the Commish will feel like he's got to do something, so I expect a big fine and the firing of somebody on the equipment side in the Patriots organization.

Yeah. The poor honest dears are being victimized. The NFL came up with all kinds of weird rules, and all the Pats did was to ignore a few of the nonsensical ones. We should be giving them extra draft picks, not penalizing them.
Not to mention, they'd have won anyway.

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

Hopefully, they are fined and nothing else. The NFL will start watching these things more carefully going forward. I just don't think it's a big deal, but enough people have been whining about it that the Commish will feel like he's got to do something, so I expect a big fine and the firing of somebody on the equipment side in the Patriots organization.

Unfortunately I think you are right, and that really burns my butt. Some guy who is probably barely able to make his mortgage on the training/equipment staff will lose his job, and Bellicheat/Brady** will go home laughing.

[Sugar]

Yeah. The poor honest dears are being victimized. The NFL came up with all kinds of weird rules, and all the Pats did was to ignore a few of the nonsensical ones. We should be giving them extra draft picks, not penalizing them.
Not to mention, they'd have won anyway.

Wow. Project much? The organization should be fined whatever the fine is for this type of infraction. I didn't say that they should get away with anything. This stupid fiasco has already taken up way too much air/screen/talk time.

[hawaiiansteel]

This stupid fiasco has already taken up way too much air/screen/talk time.

I'll agree with you on this...

[Slapstick]

Wow. Project much? The organization should be fined whatever the fine is for this type of infraction. I didn't say that they should get away with anything. This stupid fiasco has already taken up way too much air/screen/talk time.

Don't blame that on the media or the people on this board. Blame it on the people who are responsible for the cheating.

[Shawn]

Tom Brady suspended for 4 games, Pats fined and a loss of a first round draft pick.

[Eich]

Tom Brady suspended for 4 games, Pats fined and a loss of a first round draft pick.

That's what SHOULD happen. But I'll be as shocked as I've ever been shocked by anything NFL related if that happened.

[bostonsteeler]

Tom Brady suspended for 4 games, Pats fined and a loss of a first round draft pick.


Wont happen. The sheer number of people, even on this forum, arguing that it was a minor infraction that didnt affect the outcome of the game and merits only a slap on the wrist at worst, is astounding. That it could have affected the outcome of the game doesnt matter. That this may be a deep endemic problem doesnt matter.
These are the same people who wholeheartedly agreed to Ben's banishment over unproven allegations.

The pats wont be touched. All of NE, much of the rest of the country, and Goodell will argue that rules dont apply to winners.

[Shawn]

That's what SHOULD happen. But I'll be as shocked as I've ever been shocked by anything NFL related if that happened. I personally think Goodell has too much at stake in this one. With the burning of the spygate files, to Ray Rice...Goodell must realize that not only his integrity but the integrity of the league is at stake. As much as he would love to sweep this under the rug, I don't see any way he can do so. He will have to make a statement and I believe it will be significant.

[Sword]

Wont happen. The sheer number of people, even on this forum, arguing that it was a minor infraction that didnt affect the outcome of the game and merits only a slap on the wrist at worst, is astounding. That it could have affected the outcome of the game doesnt matter. That this may be a deep endemic problem doesnt matter.
These are the same people who wholeheartedly agreed to Ben's banishment over unproven allegations.

The pats wont be touched. All of NE, much of the rest of the country, and Goodell will argue that rules dont apply to winners.

You will never get that or even close unless the NFL can prove Brady had knowledge of this.

[Notleadpoisoned]

Does anyone else think that Goodell has some character issues of his own? He just doesn't strike me as a good guy.

[7 UP]

Does anyone else think that Goodell has some character issues of his own? He just doesn't strike me as a good guy.

Character issues is an understatment. This guy is a megalomaniac for starters.

[Slapstick]

You will never get that or even close unless the NFL can prove Brady had knowledge of this.

Sean Payton had no knowledge of "Bountygate"...how did that work out for him?

[Gus]

Some type of penalty will be doled out post SuperBowl. The refs are instructed to do all they can to give the Seahawks the win so the legitimacy of the SB champion cannot be questioned.

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

Some type of penalty will be doled out post SuperBowl. The refs are instructed to do all they can to give the Seahawks the win so the legitimacy of the SB champion cannot be questioned.

I would be fine with that, but can't see it happening, too easy for word to leak out (as opposed to air, there won't be any air leakage in that game, of that we can be assured!).

[Sugar]

Sean Payton had no knowledge of "Bountygate"...how did that work out for him?

First, Payton is the Heach Coach, not the star QB. Second, "bountygate" was about an issue of players intentionally trying to hurt other players at a time when the NFL was looking at lawsuits because of the dangerous nature of the game. Two weeks ago nobody cared about the psi in a football.

[Slapstick]

First, Payton is the Heach Coach, not the star QB. Second, "bountygate" was about an issue of players intentionally trying to hurt other players at a time when the NFL was looking at lawsuits because of the dangerous nature of the game. Two weeks ago nobody cared about the psi in a football.

And Belicheat is the head coach...and Tom Brady is the star QB who touches the football every play...

No one cared about the psi of a football because no one knew that the rules regarding it were being violated...

[Shoe]

Some type of penalty will be doled out post SuperBowl. The refs are instructed to do all they can to give the Seahawks the win so the legitimacy of the SB champion cannot be questioned.

I agree that the decision will come post Super Bowl, and I have to believe that (given the statistical evidence) the punishment will be harsh. If they slap him on the wrist, every OTHER owner/team in the league will be in uproar, looking at that statistical evidence. How many AFC teams in the last decade (Steelers, Colts, Ravens) can reasonably look at games played vs. the Patriots* over the years, and wonder "what the he11 just happened".

I would like to think a one-year suspension at the least, and forfeiture of AT LEAST a first-round pick (but more optimistically, even more than that) should be on the table.

[fordfixer]

NFL





Goodell's history gives Sherman's conflict of interest claims weight


by Doug Farrar



Posted: Mon Jan. 26, 2015










PHOENIX -- This isn't exactly news, but the NFL has a bit of a public relations problem these days. The league is still smarting from the ways in which the Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson scandals were handled and mishandled, and the Deflategate controversy that emerged after the New England Patriots beat the Indianapolis Colts 45-7 in the AFC Championship Game was the worst news possible to an NFL head office that fervently hoped the Super Bowl hype would wash away a season of bad headlines.

It wasn't so much that the Patriots allegedly went outside the rules to alter game balls in ways that would be preferable to Tom Brady -- the league said it would investigate, and it's started that process. But the general public distrust of any administrative process involving Roger Goodell informed the league that it better handle this one right.

Or, that was the general idea. On Sunday, Brady told ESPN's Chris Berman that a week after Indianapolis newsman Bob Kravitz broke the news about the deflated balls, the league had not yet talked to the star quarterback as part of its ongoing investigation.

"No, no. I believe they're going to do that after the season, so we'll deal with it after this game," Brady said. "I think everybody's locked in, ready to go for this Super Bowl. It's a great opportunity for us, you know, and our guys have worked really hard, so hopefully we can go out there and play our best on Sunday."

A few hours prior, during the Seattle Seahawks' first media session of Super Bowl week, cornerback Richard Sherman made it clear that he didn't believe the league would do anything about the deflation uproar because Goodell is too close with Patriots owner Robert Kraft.

"I think perception is reality," the loquacious cornerback said. "It is what it is. Their résumé speaks for itself. You talk about getting close to the line, this and that. I don’t really have a comment about that. Their past is what their past is. Their present is what their present is. Will they be punished? Probably not. Not as long as Robert Kraft and Roger Goodell are still taking pictures at their respective homes. [Goodell] was just at Kraft’s house last week before the AFC championship. Talk about conflict of interest. As long as that happens, it won’t affect them at all."

The NFL can't shoot down criticisms like Sherman's in any credible sense, because the league and Goodell have earned their perceptions as out of touch at best and blatantly deceptive at worst.

It's easy enough to argue that if the NFL was truly on Kraft's side in an improper way, it wouldn't have come down so hard on Spygate. That may be true, but it's also worth remembering that the Spygate punishment could have been much, much worse. When Goodell brought the hammer of the gods down on the New Orleans Saints in the wake of the BountyGate scandal, head coach Sean Payton was suspended for an entire season, defensive coordinator Gregg Williams was suspended indefinitely, general manager Mickey Loomis was suspended eight games, assistant coach Joe Vitt was suspended six games and four players -- linebacker Jonathan Vilma, defensive tackle Anthony Hargrove, defensive end Will Smith and linebacker Scott Fujita -- were also suspended. The Saints were also fined $500,000 and lost two draft picks.

In contrast, the Patriots lost a first-round pick and a total of $750,000 in fine money. You can argue the ethics of spying on one's opponent versus trying to physically take one's opponent out of the game, but the Saints' punishments were almost universally castigated before they were later condemned and overturned in an independent investigation by former commissioner Paul Tagliabue. The Patriots' punishments were far more in line with a reasonable conclusion.

On Monday, a story written by Gabriel Sherman for GQ dropped several revelations about Kraft's close relationship with Goodell, especially as it pertained to the handling of the Ray Rice fallout, didn't put the league in a positive light. Sherman writes that in the days following the release of the Ray Rice elevator tape, Kraft talked with Goodell and asked him to appear in an interview on CBS News, after Kraft and CBS president Les Moonves had discussed the situation.


The two men spoke often, but this call was urgent: In roughly forty-eight hours, CBS was set to air the first of eight Thursday Night Football games (for which the network reportedly paid about $250 million), and the game featured the Ravens. Kraft and Moonves agreed that Goodell needed to appear on CBS News and answer questions. The questioner, Moonves added, should be a woman.

Goodell rarely went out front to face tough interviews. But Kraft was one of Goodell's closest confidants among the NFL's thirty-two owners, and his fiercest advocate and defender. As a member of the league's compensation committee, Kraft has vigorously defended Goodell's eye-popping $44 million pay package, and in the wake of the TMZ leak, he personally called owners and lobbied them to issue statements backing the commissioner, according to a senior league source. So large is Kraft's sway with Goodell that one veteran NFL executive likes to call him "the assistant commissioner."

Goodell's appearance on CBS, in which he was questioned by Norah O'Donnell and insisted that he had not seen the full video of Rice assaulting his then-fiancée until TMZ had released it to the public, was another disaster. Goodell's truthfulness was questioned by several reports, and he eventually had to hold a press conference admitting that the league had blown the investigation.

When the league then assigned former FBI director Robert Mueller to launch what it called an independent investigation, Mueller's ties to the WilmerHale law firm scuttled the credibility of that effort at transparency. Ravens president Dick Cass once worked for WilmerHale, and the firm was involved in the league's negotiations with DirecTV on at least one occasion. When the Mueller Report came out and failed to find Goodell and the NFL guilty of any serious wrongdoing, nobody was surprised because everybody assumed that the game was rigged from the start.

Just as the heat on the NFL this fall was about more than how Ray Rice was eventually punished, in the past week the criticism has been about more than how the league handles the idea that one of the two Super Bowl teams may have illegally altered footballs on its way to the NFL's biggest game. It's about the fact that whenever Roger Goodell speaks to the league's integrity, his audience's first response is to look for the hidden truth behind the words.

Even more damaging to the NFL, the lasting legacy of these controversies is that the hidden truth is generally easy to find. That's what Richard Sherman was talking about on Sunday, and in a larger sense, he was speaking for a lot of people who have lost faith in Goodell's stewardship.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/01/26/deflategate-roger-goodell-robert-kraft-richard-sherman

[Discipline of Steel]

Ah, let it rain. Maybe Goodell will, for once and for all, be forced to step down from his post. To me, it will have all been worthwhile to endure this ridiculousness. Maybe then Ill consider coming back to the game.

[Shawn]

Just read an article that the NFL is closing in on a rogue ball boy. Oh those pranksters. Guess that clears Brady!

[Slapstick]

Just read an article that the NFL is closing in on a rogue ball boy. Oh those pranksters. Guess that clears Brady!

My God. If you can't come up with a credible story, try to come up with one that is at least plausible....

The NFL might as well come out and tell the fans, "We think you're all stupid."

[Eich]

There is NO WAY on EARTH that a ball boy would act on his own to deflate footballs. ZERO PERCENT CHANCE. If a ball boy did it, someone told him to. And someone probably paid him a nice chunk of change to keep quiet about it.

[squidkid]

Just read an article that the NFL is closing in on a rogue ball boy. Oh those pranksters. Guess that clears Brady!

i bet they 'find out' that this ball boy hates tom brady and has secretly been deflating balls for years hoping to eventually get him in trouble............

[Eich]

With Belichick, Brady and Kraft all publically and vehemently denying anything to do with it, they are daring the NFL to find some evidence to the contrary. They are pretty confident that they have loose ends tied up.

[Sword]

There is NO WAY on EARTH that a ball boy would act on his own to deflate footballs. ZERO PERCENT CHANCE. If a ball boy did it, someone told him to. And someone probably paid him a nice chunk of change to keep quiet about it.

Agree on that! Polygraph test him......

[Sword]

Another scenario which, make more since: Sports bookie who paid off that person in video....this makes more since then Kraft, Belichick, and Brady putting everything on the line for
something as minor as deflating balls..this makes no since.
Mass. is filled with illegal sports gambling...

[7 UP]

Can anyone explain this to me? If an NFL player is accused of domestic violence, he is not permitted to play in any games until he proves himself innocent, in a court of law. So if the Patriots are being accused of cheating, and there is more and more evidence surfacing, why are they permitted to play in this game?

[Sword]

Can anyone explain this to me? If an NFL player is accused of domestic violence, he is not permitted to play in any games until he proves himself innocent, in a court of law. So if the Patriots are being accused of cheating, and there is more and more evidence surfacing, why are they permitted to play in this game?

The level of evidence...no different then when bail is set for someone who commits a crime or bail denied...

[Eich]

Another scenario which, make more since: Sports bookie who paid off that person in video....this makes more since then Kraft, Belichick, and Brady putting everything on the line for
something as minor as deflating balls..this makes no since.
Mass. is filled with illegal sports gambling...


I don't t think that underinflating footballs is minor. Several sports figures have agreed that it offers a huge advantage, not just in the passing game but running game and avoiding fumbles. If you read the article on the statistics of the cheater's fumble rate since 2007, this could definitely have something to do with it.

And, Belichick put everything on the line to illegally video record the other team's signals and continued doing it after being warned not to. He's proven more than willing to do anything to get an advantage.

[Shawn]

I'm going to play the other side of the fence for a second just because I enjoy debating from the other stance on occasion. I will say this, most football players attempt to bend and break rules to gain an advantage. This has probably happened since the game was invented. If you ask an OLman,would you hold if you knew you wouldn't get caught? I believe most would say yes. So, it begs the question...where is the line? And can players and coaches take a moral high ground without being a hypocrite? The Pats were caught and should be punished. But, I don't believe there is a single team who is innocent or saintly.

[Sword]

I'm going to play the other side of the fence for a second just because I enjoy debating from the other stance on occasion. I will say this, most football players attempt to bend and break rules to gain an advantage. This has probably happened since the game was invented. If you ask an OLman,would you hold if you knew you wouldn't get caught? I believe most would say yes. So, it begs the question...where is the line? And can players and coaches take a moral high ground without being a hypocrite? The Pats were caught and should be punished. But, I don't believe there is a single team who is innocent or saintly.


I agree with this 100%

[Sword]

I don't t think that underinflating footballs is minor. Several sports figures have agreed that it offers a huge advantage, not just in the passing game but running game and avoiding fumbles. If you read the article on the statistics of the cheater's fumble rate since 2007, this could definitely have something to do with it.

And, Belichick put everything on the line to illegally video record the other team's signals and continued doing it after being warned not to. He's proven more than willing to do anything to get an advantage.


I disagree, with the "huge advantage" statement....and the fumble thing most likely is just well taught by pats organization...to many missing variables for that to be scientific conclusion.

[Slapstick]

Wrong. Such a huge statistical difference cannot have a simple explanation that everyone else does...

[Sword]

Wrong. Such a huge statistical difference cannot have a simple explanation that everyone else does...

The Statistical difference you mention is not scientific research and is missing variables......

[feltdizz]

I heard they have video evidence of the ball boy removing the footballs...

seriously, how in THE HELL does a ball boy deflate footballs without Brady's knowledge? Why the hell would a ball boy change the psi of Brady's footballs?

[Slapstick]

I heard they have video evidence of the ball boy removing the footballs...

seriously, how in THE HELL does a ball boy deflate footballs without Brady's knowledge? Why the hell would a ball boy change the psi of Brady's footballs?

Because Tom Brady told him to...

[feltdizz]

Because Tom Brady told him to...

or the refs told him too...

maybe Tom Brady told him NOT to do it because it's considered cheating but the ball boy couldn't help himself.

[Northern_Blitz]

or the refs told him too...

maybe Tom Brady told him NOT to do it because it's considered cheating but the ball boy couldn't help himself.

I wonder if they have the power to check the ball boy's financial statements or recent purchase history.

[feltdizz]

I wonder if they have the power to check the ball boy's financial statements or recent purchase history.

he will definitely get a nice chunk of change after he gets fired.

small bills, untraceable

[squidkid]

can someone tell me if there is any legal action that can be taken against any of the people being interviewed if they bold face lie?

[feltdizz]

I don't know but I predict NOTHING will happen.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Another scenario which, make more since: Sports bookie who paid off that person in video....this makes more since then Kraft, Belichick, and Brady putting everything on the line for
something as minor as deflating balls..this makes no since.
Mass. is filled with illegal sports gambling...

For a bookie to make this happen it would only do it if he believed that it would swing his win total significantly, and that it was pretty much a guarantee. If that is the case, it can't then be described as "something as minor as deflating balls"?

[feltdizz]

Another scenario which, make more since: Sports bookie who paid off that person in video....this makes more since then Kraft, Belichick, and Brady putting everything on the line for
something as minor as deflating balls..this makes no since.
Mass. is filled with illegal sports gambling...

that makes no SINCE at all... it also makes no SENSE. LOL...

why would a bookie deflate footballs for his advantage? How the hell do you come up with this nonsense. First you blame the refs, now the bookies.. why stop there. Blame the Papa Johns owners in Indy who had free pizza specials if the Colts won.

Seriously dude, you sound idiotic with all these excuses.

Are these guys really putting everything on the line? They got caught cheating before so yes, these guys are willing to put it all on the line to win.

[Slapstick]

Why put it all on the line for something so minor?

Because they are sure that some naive fools will believe that it is only a minor offense...

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Why put it all on the line for something so minor?

Because they are sure that some naive fools will believe that it is only a minor offense...

Funny, that was the same question asked when the were caught videotaping. All they did was videotape something that 80,000 observers could already see. The thing is, they were already warned that they were not allowed to yet they still did it. That tells me that it is not as insignificant a gain as some would lead you to believe.

[Sword]

For a bookie to make this happen it would only do it if he believed that it would swing his win total significantly, and that it was pretty much a guarantee. If that is the case, it can't then be described as "something as minor as deflating balls"?

not really.....the under\over in points throughout game...there is a ton of betting doing this over just the game outcome and the line...

[Sword]

that makes no SINCE at all... it also makes no SENSE. LOL...

why would a bookie deflate footballs for his advantage? How the hell do you come up with this nonsense. First you blame the refs, now the bookies.. why stop there. Blame the Papa Johns owners in Indy who had free pizza specials if the Colts won.

Seriously dude, you sound idiotic with all these excuses.

Are these guys really putting everything on the line? They got caught cheating before so yes, these guys are willing to put it all on the line to win.
I'm not giving them excuses just bringing up other possible reasons...

[feltdizz]

I'm not giving them excuses just bringing up other possible reasons...

I hear you but when you say "this makes more sense" it kinda comes off like you actually believe it makes sense. In reality though, some of your scenarios are pretty freaking unbelievable and borderline stupid.

maybe it's because you think this whole deflategate is minor and stupid but some of these theories dude... LOL

[feltdizz]

Funny, that was the same question asked when the were caught videotaping. All they did was videotape something that 80,000 observers could already see. The thing is, they were already warned that they were not allowed to yet they still did it. That tells me that it is not as insignificant a gain as some would lead you to believe.

Damn near every athlete who was accused of roids or cheating says this exact line.

Even Lance Armstrong said he would cheat again if the circumstances were the same. I knew tons of people who swore up and down there was no way Lance would put it all on the line. Same with MLB fans. Bonds? Sure... but McGuire? No way... Arod? Clements? Braun? impossible...

anyone who ask why a coach or player would cheat to win a SB is an idiot because there will always be fans who will take a bullet to protect their cheating legacy.

[Sword]

I hear you but when you say "this makes more sense" it kinda comes off like you actually believe it makes sense. In reality though, some of your scenarios are pretty freaking unbelievable and borderline stupid.

maybe it's because you think this whole deflategate is minor and stupid but some of these theories dude... LOL

I haven't mentioned the theory of Roger Goodell paying off the ball boy yet....

[feltdizz]

I haven't mentioned the theory of Roger Goodell paying off the ball boy yet....

keep going... we got 5 or 6 days before the SB.

[7 UP]

I'm going to play the other side of the fence for a second just because I enjoy debating from the other stance on occasion. I will say this, most football players attempt to bend and break rules to gain an advantage. This has probably happened since the game was invented. If you ask an OLman,would you hold if you knew you wouldn't get caught? I believe most would say yes. So, it begs the question...where is the line? And can players and coaches take a moral high ground without being a hypocrite? The Pats were caught and should be punished. But, I don't believe there is a single team who is innocent or saintly.

The everybody cheats argument is one Im simply not buying. By this logic no one ever should be committed of murder, because hey, everybody has thought about killing somebody once or twice.

Next time any of you get pulled over for speeding, do me a favor. Tell the cop that everybody speeds on this road. Then come back and let me know how that worked out for you.

[Sword]

keep going... we got 5 or 6 days before the SB.

Kevin Youkilis was told by his wife Julie Brady to send in the ball boy.......

[Shawn]

The everybody cheats argument is one Im simply not buying. By this logic no one ever should be committed of murder, because hey, everybody has thought about killing somebody once or twice.

Next time any of you get pulled over for speeding, do me a favor. Tell the cop that everybody speeds on this road. Then come back and let me know how that worked out for you. Then you must not have actually read my entire post. You are speaking about not holding cheaters and lawbreakers accountable. No where in my post did I take that stance.

[7 UP]

Then you must not have actually read my entire post. You are speaking about not holding cheaters and lawbreakers accountable. No where in my post did I take that stance.

Shawn, my reply wasnt directed specifically toward you. The everybody does it excuse seems to be one I keep reading. Your post seemed to be leading that way, and I just happened to be reading your post when I replied.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

I'm going to play the other side of the fence for a second just because I enjoy debating from the other stance on occasion. I will say this, most football players attempt to bend and break rules to gain an advantage. This has probably happened since the game was invented. If you ask an OLman,would you hold if you knew you wouldn't get caught? I believe most would say yes. So, it begs the question...where is the line? And can players and coaches take a moral high ground without being a hypocrite? The Pats were caught and should be punished. But, I don't believe there is a single team who is innocent or saintly.

True, but it is then the league's duty to take away the willingness to cheat. To your point, would an Olineman hold every time if his team is going to go backwards ten yards each time? Of course not, so they try not to hold. Would you do steroids if there was no risk? Yes. What if you are going to die young and lose the chance to play the game by getting caught? Not so much.

The Patriots continue to cheat because they have never been properly deterred. They were caught in '07 and learned the lesson that under Roger Goodell, dishonesty does pay. At the same time, the Saints were hit hard for breaking rules, and nobody associated with that scandal would ever go near a bounty program again, but the Pats got away light, and if the whole Rice video never surfaced, that would have also been swept under the rug.

[Moonie]

Attica! Attica! Attica!

[RuthlessBurgher]

True, but it is then the league's duty to take away the willingness to cheat. To your point, would an Olineman hold every time if his team is going to go backwards ten yards each time? Of course not, so they try not to hold. Would you do steroids if there was no risk? Yes. What if you are going to die young and lose the chance to play the game by getting caught? Not so much.

The Patriots continue to cheat because they have never been properly deterred. They were caught in '07 and learned the lesson that under Roger Goodell, dishonesty does pay. At the same time, the Saints were hit hard for breaking rules, and nobody associated with that scandal would ever go near a bounty program again, but the Pats got away light, and if the whole Rice video never surfaced, that would have also been swept under the rug.

Yup... the penalty for cheating this time must be sufficient to deter future cheating (like the penalty for Bountygate was sufficient to deter future bounties) because the last time New England was penalized for cheating it wasn't nearly effective enough as a deterrant.

[steelblood]

prediction....a fine or nothing. it will be a slap on the wrist. Kraft and Belicheck have laid down the gauntlet. The NFL will not take them on without real evidence of cheating. If they take a draft choice, it will be a 7th rounder (but I doubt that will happen).