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Shawn
01-11-2015, 11:17 AM
Been doing much thinking about the OLB situation. IMO, it's a very tricky situation. I initially agreed with JPN that the Steelers basically have to bring Worilds back. But, after looking at the numbers I'm not so sure I feel the same now. The market will value Worilds more than he is worth. Pass rushers are highly valued and I feel on the open market Worilds could get 6.5-7 million a year. Looking at his 7.5 sacks, 6.5 came from scheme...he just came open during a blitz. He beat one guy on the year for a sack. He is not the strong in run support. Moats is powerful and fast... He has a high motor and had 4 sacks in limited play. He is actually pretty good against the run. He can be had for 1.5-2 million per year. Personally, I would rather the Steelers make Worilds a 5 million per offer and he goes he goes. Spend that money to bring in one highly touted FA into the secondary. Start Moats and draft OLB in the first two rounds.

D Rock
01-11-2015, 11:59 AM
I'm all for not giving big contracts to questionable talents anymore. It's time to stop trying to reload and actually do a little bit of rebuilding. Not in the 'tear it all down and start from the bottom' sense, but in the 'start preparing the cap now for the future' sense. Ben is going to eat up a huge part of the cap. It would be nice to still have the option of bringing in a stud FA here and there if needed.

SidSmythe
01-11-2015, 12:16 PM
The PATRIOTS got Jamie Collins in an early season trade from Tampa.

They're out there, but WORILDS is NOT one of them.

Shoe
01-11-2015, 12:39 PM
I've said it before: I'd take Worilds back, as long as he's paid as what he is and the scheme is predicated on a rotational system (e.g. Seattle). In Seattle, you got Irvin, Bennett, Avril, whoever else, and they rotate the guys. Presumably, they pay those guys with that in mind. They don't pay top-dollar (maybe the best of that lot does).

Worilds is just a dependable guy, he's not going to move the needle. He's not Peezy, Lloyd, or Harrison. He's not going to step up, when things are going bad on the team. He's not going to make the big-play to ignite a team. He's not that good. Paying him like that would be a big mistake.

Eddie Spaghetti
01-11-2015, 12:43 PM
jamie collins was drafted by the pats in 2013

as for woirlds he is average and not the nearly the pass rusher some here claimed he was and blamed DL for holding him back. i think 5 per is about right. take it or leave it

Oviedo
01-11-2015, 01:20 PM
jamie collins was drafted by the pats in 2013

as for woirlds he is average and not the nearly the pass rusher some here claimed he was and blamed DL for holding him back. i think 5 per is about right. take it or leave it
Like I said before. The appropriate market value for Worilds is between $5-6M per year. The lack of pass rushers on the market is probably going to drive the price to an average over $6.5M per, but it is really about the guaranteed money not the per year average. IMO that is a fair price for an annual range of 7-10 sacks per year.

Shawn
01-11-2015, 01:35 PM
O I agree but if you can get that production for 1.5 it's an easy decision. Not to mention once you sign him he is your guy.

7 UP
01-11-2015, 01:51 PM
I am against signing him. Signing guys like this to big contracts is exactly why we never seem to get anywhere. We have all seen Worlids upside. I would rather try and bring in someone else and maybe hit a homerun than be locked into mediocrity for the next 5 years. Moats can give you similar production to Worlids. Hopefully Jarvis will be healthy next year.

feltdizz
01-11-2015, 02:11 PM
I am against signing him. Signing guys like this to big contracts is exactly why we never seem to get anywhere. We have all seen Worlids upside. I would rather try and bring in someone else and maybe hit a homerun than be locked into mediocrity for the next 5 years. Moats can give you similar production to Worlids. Hopefully Jarvis will be healthy next year.

*stands in this line*

I feel the same way.

DukieBoy
01-11-2015, 02:18 PM
Some info indicated that he dropped into coverage a good bit. He is a capable pass rusher. He does not hold the corner all that well against the run. The contract would have to be reasonable for us to keep him. He's a Tomlin choice, and I think Tomlin will advocate for keeping him.

NorthCoast
01-11-2015, 02:36 PM
I am against signing him. Signing guys like this to big contracts is exactly why we never seem to get anywhere. We have all seen Worlids upside. I would rather try and bring in someone else and maybe hit a homerun than be locked into mediocrity for the next 5 years. Moats can give you similar production to Worlids. Hopefully Jarvis will be healthy next year.

Brought it up in a previous post. Resign yourself to signing mediocre players, end up with a mediocre defense. And yes, you can't field a team of All-Pros but you also don't need to sign mediocre players to long term deals. Any deal with Worilds should be a very 'team friendly' one or it's bye-bye.

phillyesq
01-11-2015, 04:53 PM
Brought it up in a previous post. Resign yourself to signing mediocre players, end up with a mediocre defense. And yes, you can't field a team of All-Pros but you also don't need to sign mediocre players to long term deals. Any deal with Worilds should be a very 'team friendly' one or it's bye-bye.

It's the defensive equivalent of signing Gilbert.

Oviedo
01-11-2015, 05:21 PM
Hopefully Jarvis will be healthy next year.

Hope isn't a method and even if healthy after two years we still have no idea what we have. You need some proven production and as much as it's not optimal Worilds provides that. Even if not optimal it also isn't terrible, especially if they stop dropping him into coverage as much as they did last year.

Slapstick
01-11-2015, 07:05 PM
Hope isn't a method and even if healthy after two years we still have no idea what we have. You need some proven production and as much as it's not optimal Worilds provides that. Even if not optimal it also isn't terrible, especially if they stop dropping him into coverage as much as they did last year.

WE have no idea, but the Steelers certainly do...in any case, even if Jarvis does well next season, the system needs at least two OLBs on the field at the same time...

SteelCrazy
01-11-2015, 11:49 PM
Arthur Moats is just as good as Worilds and may be better. He got 4 sacks in 34% of the snaps on Defense compared to Worilds 98.8% and 7.5 sacks. If Moats played as much as Worilds he may have gotten 10-14 sacks.

Steelers should sign him and let Worilds be lame for anyone else.

WVSteelerfan
01-12-2015, 01:23 AM
Howard Jones may very well be in the discussion next year. The guy is a freak of an athlete. He needed some time to work on technique and bulk up some. I think he will be in the mix for that OLB slot. I don't think Worilds will be back. I do think Moats is resigned.

brazilsteel
01-12-2015, 02:05 AM
Howard Jones may very well be in the discussion next year. The guy is a freak of an athlete. He needed some time to work on technique and bulk up some. I think he will be in the mix for that OLB slot. I don't think Worilds will be back. I do think Moats is resigned.

I have high hopes on H. Jones, I think he has all the tools to develop into a starting OLB.
On Worilds, I'd let him go and sign some free agent (Jabaal Sheard would be awesome).

Oviedo
01-12-2015, 09:24 AM
Arthur Moats is just as good as Worilds and may be better. He got 4 sacks in 34% of the snaps on Defense compared to Worilds 98.8% and 7.5 sacks. If Moats played as much as Worilds he may have gotten 10-14 sacks.

Steelers should sign him and let Worilds be lame for anyone else.
If Moats was that good he would be a starter in this league. To say he would have 10-14 sacks is pretty "crazy" but you are SteelCrazy;)

Oviedo
01-12-2015, 09:25 AM
Howard Jones may very well be in the discussion next year. The guy is a freak of an athlete. He needed some time to work on technique and bulk up some. I think he will be in the mix for that OLB slot. I don't think Worilds will be back. I do think Moats is resigned.

I've heard Howard is super lean. That doesn't translate to success as an OLB in a 3-4. IMO he may be one of those guys who don't translate to the NFL despite being a great athlete.

feltdizz
01-12-2015, 10:36 AM
If Moats was that good he would be a starter in this league. To say he would have 10-14 sacks is pretty "crazy" but you are SteelCrazy;)

I agree...

I love how people say a guy would have X amount of sacks if he played X amount of snaps.

It doesn't work that way...

Slapstick
01-12-2015, 10:46 AM
If Moats was that good he would be a starter in this league. To say he would have 10-14 sacks is pretty "crazy" but you are SteelCrazy;)

People said the same thing about Justin Forsett...

Iron City Inc.
01-12-2015, 01:44 PM
Arthur Moats is just as good as Worilds and may be better. He got 4 sacks in 34% of the snaps on Defense compared to Worilds 98.8% and 7.5 sacks. If Moats played as much as Worilds he may have gotten 10-14 sacks.

Steelers should sign him and let Worilds be lame for anyone else.

Imho Moats isn't as good. The question is is he close enough so for 1.5m vs. 7.5m apx for JW? Could we use that 6m along with a few more to land a Revis is what this really comes down to. How good is Howard Jones or Zumwalt? I don't have the answers regarding either of those 2.
interesting call on this. As s few have suggested in some early mocks we may look at the draft to fill our need at olb. If that was the case Moats would be a fine player to have on the roster back up across the board and keep the seat warm until the rookie is ready.

hausparty
01-12-2015, 02:20 PM
If you were only paid 1 year and only guaranteed 1 year of time would you play with 100% effort and risk getting hurt? I personally believe WORILDS went thru the motions and I also believe he would like to play for the JETS.

Remember I met Worilds at the Marriott outside Latrobe on day 1. His PEE WEE coach was sitting right next to me and in walks Worilds. I heard their entire conversation and it basically boiled down to man wouldn't it be SWEET if you played for the JETS next season. If anyone has the JETS game still on DVR you should watch it because during that game you will hear something interesting. The CBS announcers actually bring up the PEE WEE coach and how he stopped by the booth today and talked about Jason Worilds. Crazy I know but my gut says he wants to play for the JETS which means his effort was more of a DONT GET HURT type of effort.

I think he will be amazing once he's signed to a big deal and if that's with US then LOOK OUT next year. If Butler or any other DC wants to succeed next year it would be foolish to get rid of pass rushers.

That's my opinion and its the total opposite of how I feel about Mitchell. Mitchell signed that BIG DEAL and ended up playing hurt to try to prove his value! I too say wait till next year for him to SHINE.

JOB SECURITY in the real world or in the NFL can make a huge difference in your attitude and performance.

Keyplay1
01-12-2015, 02:27 PM
These are the 2015 3/4 OLB listed as FA's.

Cleveland Browns, San Diego Chargers, Green Bay Packers, Baltimore Ravens, Atlanta Falcons, Arizona Cardinals, Indianapolis Colts, Kansas City Chiefs, New York Jets, San Francisco 49ers, Pittsburgh Steelers, Washington Redskins, New England Patriots, New Orleans Saints, Philadelphia Eagles, Tennessee Titans and Houston Texans. [3-4 D teams]2014

Brian Orakpo OLB 28 WAS TBD $11,455,000 UFA

Jason Worilds OLB 26 PIT TBD $9,754,000 UFA --------- 1 yr $9,754,000 $9,754,000 $9,754,000 2015

Osi Umenyiora OLB 33 ATL TBD $4,750,000 UFA

Sean Weatherspoon OLB 27 ATL TBD $4,132,500 UFA ---5 yr $12,655,000 $2,531,000 $5,950,000 2020

Kroy Biermann OLB 29 ATL TBD $4,083,334 UFA--------- 3 yr $9,150,000 $3,050,000 $3,100,000 2015

Dwight Freeney OLB 34 SD TBD $4,078,125 UFA

John Abraham OLB 36 ARI TBD $3,925,000 UFA

Brandon Graham OLB 26 PHI TBD $3,378,000 UFA ----------5 yr $16,908,000 $3,381,600 $12,675,000 2015

Dan Skuta OLB 28 SF TBD $1,650,000 UFA -------------------2 yr $3,000,000 $1,500,000 $300,000 2015

Jabaal Sheard OLB 25 CLE TBD $1,619,625 UFA --------------4 yr $5,090,250 $1,272,563 $3,133,375 2015

Justin Houston OLB 25 KC TBD $1,598,812 UFA --------------4 yr $2,786,248 $696,562 $671,248 2015

Sam Acho OLB 26 ARI TBD $1,549,607 UFA------------------ 4 yr $2,514,428 $628,607 $474,428 2015

Brooks Reed OLB 27 HOU TBD $1,496,015 UFA ---------------4 yr $4,701,764 $1,175,441 $2,883,184 2015

Andy Studebaker OLB 29 IND TBD $730,000 UFA--------------2 yr $1,445,000 $722,500 - 2015

Pernell McPhee OLB 26 BAL TBD $681,140 UFA -------------4 yr $2,184,560 $546,140 $144,560 2015

Jeff Tarpinian OLB 27 HOU TBD $645,000 RFA --------------2 yr $1,200,000 $600,000 - 2015

Arthur Moats OLB 26 PIT TBD $635,000 UFA ----------------1 yr $795,000 $795,000 $65,000 2015

Parys Haralson OLB 30 NO TBD $635,000 UFA --------------1 yr $920,000 $920,000 $317,500 2015

Akeem Ayers OLB 25 NE TBD $615,762 UFA -----------------4 yr $4,926,516 $1,231,629 $3,056,856 2015

Jonathan Casillas OLB 27 NE TBD $582,352 UFA-------------1 yr $1,400,000 $1,400,000 $500,000 2015

Quentin Groves OLB 30 TEN TBD $570,000 UFA -------------1 yr $730,000 $730,000 - 2015

James Harrison OLB 36 PIT TBD $534,412 UFA --------------1 yr $1,020,000 $1,020,000 $65,000 2015

Marcus Benard OLB 29 ARI TBD $402,352 UFA

Desmond Bishop OLB 30 SF TBD $67,058 UFA ---------------1 yr $730,000 $730,000 - 2015

Info found at

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/outside-linebacker/

Link may not be live but it is the correct copied address.

Anyhow, there they are. Just about all the possible FA OLB from teams using the 3-4D that might be available. Not included were the RFA types. Can't ever recall the Steelers signing any of them. But since they started this FA thing in 1993 they sure have found plenty that have been of huge help.

As I said, there they are, look the list over, the FO could use some help here and I'm sure would appreciate the scouting info offered. Really, it is completely laughable to me that Worilds is up there at near the top of the list at nearly 10M. LMAO. I would bet there are a dozen lower that would be much better here.

I do realize that quality players are usually resigned but maybe some will slip through and want to test the market. It would be wise to be ready to make a phone call seconds after the March signing period begins.

Question: How soon can these players be contacted to sort of feel them out on their intentions for the coming season?

btw: Obviously, I agree with the OP.

Oh! One more thing. The reason I pasted that link was there just might be a couple of OLB now in a 4-3D that were on teams recently converting from the 3-4. It is possible they did not transition well and just might be available as a steal. Buffalo and Miami come to mind.

feltdizz
01-12-2015, 02:29 PM
If you were only paid 1 year and only guaranteed 1 year of time would you play with 100% effort and risk getting hurt? I personally believe WORILDS went thru the motions and I also believe he would like to play for the JETS.

Remember I met Worilds at the Marriott outside Latrobe on day 1. His PEE WEE coach was sitting right next to me and in walks Worilds. I heard their entire conversation and it basically boiled down to man wouldn't it be SWEET if you played for the JETS next season. If anyone has the JETS game still on DVR you should watch it because during that game you will hear something interesting. The CBS announcers actually bring up the PEE WEE coach and how he stopped by the booth today and talked about Jason Worilds. Crazy I know but my gut says he wants to play for the JETS which means his effort was more of a DONT GET HURT type of effort.

I think he will be amazing once he's signed to a big deal and if that's with US then LOOK OUT next year. If Butler or any other DC wants to succeed next year it would be foolish to get rid of pass rushers.

That's my opinion and its the total opposite of how I feel about Mitchell. Mitchell signed that BIG DEAL and ended up playing hurt to try to prove his value! I too say wait till next year for him to SHINE.

JOB SECURITY in the real world or in the NFL can make a huge difference in your attitude and performance.

Is Worilds from NYC? Can't see how it would be sweet to play for that org.

hausparty
01-12-2015, 02:44 PM
He must be and I too agree. Who wants to play for the JETS?
I think $$$ is the driving force for most of these players and I just feel his injuries were his RED FLAG so in a way he helped his value by not getting hurt this past year.

James Harrison showed what passionate play looked like and at the end of the year last year so did Worilds. This year he's once again set to make a TON OF MONEY by not really putting it all out there.

SOUNDS JUST LIKE WOODLEY TO ME.

hausparty
01-12-2015, 02:45 PM
Born: March 3, 1988 (age 26), Rahway, NJ

YEP GUESS SO

Slapstick
01-12-2015, 02:50 PM
The Steelers aren't going to sign a premier name unless he is a guy who goes unsigned for awhile...

I wouldn't mind looking at Pernell McPhee, Akeem Ayres or Jabaal Sheard on that list...

But, I also think that Moats would be far better than people think he would be...

RuthlessBurgher
01-12-2015, 02:56 PM
It's the defensive equivalent of signing Gilbert.

Whoa...I just make a Worilds-Gilbert comparison in the other Worilds thread, then I read this post from yesterday. As I mentioned to Pappy earlier...mediocre minds must think alike. ;)