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Oviedo
01-09-2015, 09:22 AM
Could read a lot into this.

1. Rooney wants to keep him and knows Tomlin wants to go another way.
2. Tomlin is being loyal and wants to keep him but Rooney wants change
3. They both feel there needs to be change and Rooney is going to take the hit with media and players

IMO there could be change coming


Future of Steelers defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau said to be in the hands of Art Rooney II
By Neal Coolong on Jan 9 2015, 7:36a

The owner, not the coach, is said to be responsible for the decision to retain or move on from Dick LeBeau. His successor, linebackers coach Keith Butler, would appear to be in the same situation. So what exactly would change if LeBeau was to move on?

Post Gazette reporter Ed Bouchette pointed out theextension the Steelers gave offensive coordinator Todd Haley and one could almost hear the sighs of resignation coming from the Steelers’' organization.

Not that they wouldn't want to keep Haley around after a season in which the team broke the franchise mark for points scored, but because it will no doubt be linked to defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau, and the future of leadership for a defense that has fallen well off its usual year-in-and-year-out dominance.

Dejan Kovacevic had a great bit in a recent column regarding the Steelers' defense, pointing to a conversation he had with Steelers’ safety Troy Polamalu following the Steelers' Week 3 win over the Carolina Panthers.

"You know … there was a time when a performance like this would have been completely unacceptable for this defense," Polamalu told Kovacevic.

Kovacevic also noted in the column, "Any decision on LeBeau will be made ultimately by Art Rooney II, no matter what the Steelers say in the aftermath. That’s how it’s always been in this category."

With news of Haley's extension having been broken Tuesday, the natural question is what of LeBeau's future? To be fair, we don't know whether LeBeau's contract was up, like Haley's was, so to say they signed Haley and not LeBeau isn't necessarily accurate. If LeBeau's contract is, in fact, expired, and the Steelers are mulling the possibility of pulling an Arians on LeBeau (not offering him an extension, which is tantamount to firing him, and announcing his retirement for him), things could get ugly.

Such is the nature of this business, and the Steelers are no more immune to it than any other franchise in the league. Perhaps it happens less often, but loyalty in the NFL is only held in slight regard, even from those franchises largely considered to be the tops in the league.
As Kovacevic points out, it will be Rooney's decision on whether LeBeau returns, and in his words, that's how it's always been. So Steelers coach Mike Tomlin apparently doesn't have direct say, although it's logical to assume his input is welcomed.

On the other side of it, the Steelers are said to be grooming linebackers coach Keith Butler for the defensive coordinator position, and have been for years. The 2014 season was Butler's 12th with the team, putting him on a level of education and training befitting only surgeons in the NFL.
If and when Dr. Butler ever does take over the team's defensive coordinator position, who would he report to? Why wouldn't Rooney oversee that decision as well? It's hard to believe Butler stuck around, amid multiple over defensive coordinator position offers in the past, if he didn't have a pretty strong feeling of job security, both as a linebackers coach and a defensive coordinator.
No wonder he's stuck around as long as he has.

Fault and praise are given exclusively to the coordinators, and rarely are either really given to position coaches. Steelers defensive line coach John Mitchell is widely regarded as one of the best position coaches in all of football, and these men make up the majority of positions playing within LeBeau's defense. Assuming Mitchell isn't retiring (not a sure thing at this point), it wouldn't seem like much would change if LeBeau was to step aside.

Yes, that means there is no reason to expect the team to switch to a 3-4 defensive alignment - probably the top question asked every offseason. No, it doesn't mean the team is looking to radically shift the philosophy they've had on that side of the ball since Mean Joe Greene retired in 1981.

Most of all, his fate is not going to be decided based on what the team is doing on the offensive side of the ball, or the fact they gave Todd Haley, one of multiple offensive coordinators to come and go with the Steelers. Whenever LeBeau does relinquish his seat, his successor will have well over a decade of training under him. It's only logical to assume, outside of a few wrinkles he may implement, the defense, philosophically, will remain largely unchanged.

Knowing that, does it really make a difference whether it's LeBeau or Butler? That's the pertinent question. The Steelers may have a different man organizing the team's defense, but the only real change is the same constant change every team has every year; turnover.

Maybe figuring out personnel should weigh more heavily on Rooney's mind, and maybe that's exactly why there isn't been word on whether LeBeau will be back in 2015.

BradshawsHairdresser
01-09-2015, 09:44 AM
Sounds like a lot of speculation on everyone's part.

In other words, no real news yet.

flippy
01-09-2015, 10:59 AM
Wonder if Lebeau will retire and take another job with the Pats or someone else?

Shawn
01-09-2015, 11:21 AM
The only useful information in all of this is that it will be Art's decision...no one elses. IMO, LeBeau will not be moved, fired or asked to leave. If LeBeau leaves it's because he is done with coaching. And I just don't see that happening. The fall out from firing LeBeau would be too great in the locker room.

papillon
01-09-2015, 11:27 AM
The only useful information in all of this is that it will be Art's decision...no one elses. IMO, LeBeau will not be moved, fired or asked to leave. If LeBeau leaves it's because he is done with coaching. And I just don't see that happening. The fall out from firing LeBeau would be too great in the locker room.

I agree with this 100%, even if Art II is the final decision maker I just don't see him pulling an Arians on Dick Lebeau. There would be absolutely no logic in that, unless, Art II really wants him to retire and Dick Lebeau becomes obstinate and forces Rooney to fire him and I don't see that scenario playing out at all.

Pappy

feltdizz
01-09-2015, 11:30 AM
Owners always have final say over who stays and who goes.

Slapstick
01-09-2015, 12:40 PM
Or, perhaps, LeBeau could continue to coach...but in a different capacity...

pittpete
01-09-2015, 12:50 PM
If LeBeau retires or leaves our defense will suck!!!!
Oh wait:confused:

fezziwig
01-09-2015, 01:19 PM
I don't see our defensive woes being on Lebeau. Other than Timmons, Heyward, Gay, who is of any value to this team or what coach could have gotten a bunch of young guys, revolving doors of guys, backups, draft bust to this point ? We have no linebacker that can get to the quarterback, Mitchell didn't get the job done. I like Steve McClendon but he's no Hampton. Worilds, ha ha ha ! Blaine did a nice job as a backup but he is far from the solution. Troy, I love him but he should have stepped back two seasons ago. Ike was good in his day but over the hill now. James Harrison looks the part but he's not the answer... These number one draft pick linebackers have not showed up. Williams, Spencer Motes, they've done well but they aren't capable of making this defense what it needs to be. Maybe Williams and Spencer will become better but they are young. Lebeau had so little to work with. I think this might have been one of Dicks best seasons with what he had to work with. Who ever said decided to give Cortez Allen money, and Worilds money should be shot, stood back up and shot again.

Eich
01-09-2015, 01:52 PM
The only useful information in all of this is that it will be Art's decision...no one elses. IMO, LeBeau will not be moved, fired or asked to leave. If LeBeau leaves it's because he is done with coaching. And I just don't see that happening. The fall out from firing LeBeau would be too great in the locker room.


I agree with this 100%, even if Art II is the final decision maker I just don't see him pulling an Arians on Dick Lebeau. There would be absolutely no logic in that, unless, Art II really wants him to retire and Dick Lebeau becomes obstinate and forces Rooney to fire him and I don't see that scenario playing out at all.

Pappy

I'm not sure I agree 100% with the fallout part. If it were a few years ago, or even last year, then yes... the locker room fallout would be big. But with Troy, Keisel, Ike and Harrison likely gone, who's left that has a solid allegiance to LeBeau?

Shawn
01-09-2015, 02:18 PM
Players get attatched to LeBeau, he is like a father figure to many. I would assume that hasn't changed with the new generation of player.

feltdizz
01-09-2015, 02:18 PM
I'm not sure I agree 100% with the fallout part. If it were a few years ago, or even last year, then yes... the locker room fallout would be big. But with Troy, Keisel, Ike and Harrison likely gone, who's left that has a solid allegiance to LeBeau?

Timmons and Gay?

I agree though, all his true soldiers are getting ready to retire.

RuthlessBurgher
01-09-2015, 02:18 PM
I don't see our defensive woes being on Lebeau. Other than Timmons, Heyward, Gay, who is of any value to this team or what coach could have gotten a bunch of young guys, revolving doors of guys, backups, draft bust to this point ? We have no linebacker that can get to the quarterback, Mitchell didn't get the job done. I like Steve McClendon but he's no Hampton. Worilds, ha ha ha ! Blaine did a nice job as a backup but he is far from the solution. Troy, I love him but he should have stepped back two seasons ago. Ike was good in his day but over the hill now. James Harrison looks the part but he's not the answer... These number one draft pick linebackers have not showed up. Williams, Spencer Motes, they've done well but they aren't capable of making this defense what it needs to be. Maybe Williams and Spencer will become better but they are young. Lebeau had so little to work with. I think this might have been one of Dicks best seasons with what he had to work with. Who ever said decided to give Cortez Allen money, and Worilds money should be shot, stood back up and shot again.

Who's Blaine?

feltdizz
01-09-2015, 02:24 PM
Who's Blaine?

Blake + McCain = Blaine?

RuthlessBurgher
01-09-2015, 02:37 PM
Blake + McCain = Blaine?

They've morphed into one guy! I suppose the combination of the two could be worth a starter. ;)

phillyesq
01-09-2015, 03:01 PM
They've morphed into one guy! I suppose the combination of the two could be worth a starter. ;)

If we were going to combine anybody, I'd put Antwon Blake into Allen's body. Blake showed that he can be aggressive, but he's just physically overmatched at times, particularly in the red zone with taller receivers. A guy with his intensity and Allen's size would be nice.

Oviedo
01-09-2015, 03:48 PM
I'm not sure I agree 100% with the fallout part. If it were a few years ago, or even last year, then yes... the locker room fallout would be big. But with Troy, Keisel, Ike and Harrison likely gone, who's left that has a solid allegiance to LeBeau?
I tend to agree with the old guard gone or on their way out. That is why this is a perfect time for change. Predominately young players who need the guy who will be there for the bulk of their careers

buccoray61
01-09-2015, 04:19 PM
If LeBeau wants to coach next season,he will be back....Deal with it!!!

pfelix73
01-09-2015, 05:08 PM
The only useful information in all of this is that it will be Art's decision...no one elses. IMO, LeBeau will not be moved, fired or asked to leave. If LeBeau leaves it's because he is done with coaching. And I just don't see that happening. The fall out from firing LeBeau would be too great in the locker room.

And it has already been reported that LeBeau wants to come back in 2015.

Therefore, I believe he will be back.

feltdizz
01-09-2015, 05:18 PM
If LeBeau wants to coach next season,he will be back....Deal with it!!!

and if Art II doesn't want him back.. he won't. Can you deal with it?

hawaiiansteel
01-10-2015, 02:17 AM
Alex Kozora @Alex_Kozora -

Steelers blitzed on 28% of passing snaps for the year. Came out to about an average of 10.5 times per game.

Nickel package has become base personnel in the NFL. Steelers used nickel 48% of the time in 2014.

https://twitter.com/Alex_Kozora

SteelCrazy
01-10-2015, 08:49 AM
Alex Kozora @Alex_Kozora -

Steelers blitzed on 28% of passing snaps for the year. Came out to about an average of 10.5 times per game.

Nickel package has become base personnel in the NFL. Steelers used nickel 48% of the time in 2014.

https://twitter.com/Alex_Kozora

Basically, 1 out of every 4 pass attempts. Not nearly enough for this Defense. With the CB situation what it was, blitz every other pass attempt.

Slapstick
01-10-2015, 09:15 AM
The NFL average is about 28%...

The Steelers were about average in defensive rankings...I don't know that blitzing 50% of the time, which no team does (though two or three top 40%), would have benefitted this particular team...

buccoray61
01-10-2015, 09:40 AM
and if Art II doesn't want him back.. he won't. Can you deal with it?

Sure I can deal with it, because I don't stress over things in which I have no control. I know I won't cry about it,like a lot of the LeBeau haters if he does come back.

squidkid
01-10-2015, 10:05 AM
keep him, who out there is going to be better?

papillon
01-10-2015, 10:30 AM
keep him, who out there is going to be better?

Some believe anyone is better even the local high school DC, others believe that no one is better, so I'm not sure who you bring in, but IMO if for whatever reason Lebeau retires I would be against Butler only because in all likelihood it wouldn't be a change at all. I have nothing against Butler, he's been a good soldier, but if you're going to change, then make a change.

Pappy

feltdizz
01-10-2015, 11:41 AM
Some believe anyone is better even the local high school DC, others believe that no one is better, so I'm not sure who you bring in, but IMO if for whatever reason Lebeau retires I would be against Butler only because in all likelihood it wouldn't be a change at all. I have nothing against Butler, he's been a good soldier, but if you're going to change, then make a change.

Pappy

I'm ready for some new blood.

squidkid
01-10-2015, 11:45 AM
I'm ready for some new blood.

who tho?......

papillon
01-10-2015, 11:46 AM
I'm ready for some new blood.

That's fine, then bring in new blood and not more of the same old, same old.

Pappy

feltdizz
01-10-2015, 12:17 PM
who tho?......

The top DC's available... I don't care if its Rex Ryan or an up and coming young talent

Shoe
01-10-2015, 12:34 PM
What is best for our team?

Butler has been groomed and has long been considered a worthy successor. But letting him rot on the vine, it says more that he really isn't (a great candidate). Most others would have left already, if they just had to sit behind a guy who refused to leave his post. If Butler was worth waiting for, he would've moved on long ago. And if he really was waiting for, the management would've tried to elevate him to be job already.

Slapstick
01-10-2015, 12:57 PM
The Steelers, for whatever reason, made it financially attractive for Butler to stay as opposed to jumping ship for a different team. If Butler were not behind a legendary DC, he probably would have been promoted. As it is, the Steelers organization wanted him to stay and compensated him well enough to entice him to do so. If they thought he wasn't worth promoting, they would have let him pursue other offers without providing incentive to stay.

It isn't as if he went on other interviews and just didn't get the job. He either interviewed and the Steelers gave him a counter offer (which he took) or they gave him the counter offers before he even interviewed.

Discipline of Steel
01-10-2015, 01:00 PM
What is best for our team?

... if they just had to sit behind a guy who refused to leave his post.

Who says DL ever refused to leave his post? I highly doubt he is stubbornly sitting there insisting he can still lead while everyone in the organization wants him out. Its only a group of fans that want him to leave and hes suppose to be responsive to that?

feltdizz
01-10-2015, 01:17 PM
The Steelers, for whatever reason, made it financially attractive for Butler to stay as opposed to jumping ship for a different team. If Butler were not behind a legendary DC, he probably would have been promoted. As it is, the Steelers organization wanted him to stay and compensated him well enough to entice him to do so. If they thought he wasn't worth promoting, they would have let him pursue other offers without providing incentive to stay.

It isn't as if he went on other interviews and just didn't get the job. He either interviewed and the Steelers gave him a counter offer (which he took) or they gave him the counter offers before he even interviewed.

Great post

pittpete
01-10-2015, 01:24 PM
LeBeau needs to stay..
Who else is going to develop the younger players we have on this defense?
Its not LeBeaus fault that the defense has been declining the last 3 years.
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

squidkid
01-10-2015, 02:30 PM
The top DC's available... I don't care if its Rex Ryan or an up and coming young talent

who says they will be better?

Oviedo
01-10-2015, 05:44 PM
What is best for our team?

Butler has been groomed and has long been considered a worthy successor. But letting him rot on the vine, it says more that he really isn't (a great candidate). Most others would have left already, if they just had to sit behind a guy who refused to leave his post. If Butler was worth waiting for, he would've moved on long ago. And if he really was waiting for, the management would've tried to elevate him to be job already.

I have wondered this myself and it concerns me he is just more of the same. What energetic, up and coming coach wouldn't leave to be The Man" somewhere? We don't need a "complacent " replacement for LeBeau

feltdizz
01-10-2015, 06:00 PM
who says they will be better?

we will find out.... every DC has its day.

Oviedo
01-10-2015, 07:02 PM
Could read a lot into this.

1. Rooney wants to keep him and knows Tomlin wants to go another way.
2. Tomlin is being loyal and wants to keep him but Rooney wants change
3. They both feel there needs to be change and Rooney is going to take the hit with media and players

IMO there could be change coming

Probably #3 based on today's announcement

Slapstick
01-10-2015, 08:04 PM
I have wondered this myself and it concerns me he is just more of the same. What energetic, up and coming coach wouldn't leave to be The Man" somewhere? We don't need a "complacent " replacement for LeBeau

My guess is someone who works for a good organization and knows it. Also, the aforementioned organization has paid him handsomely to keep him in the fold. I would love to be complacent like that...