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View Full Version : Mike Florio on Rothlisberger = Ouch!!



JIMBO
01-06-2015, 10:23 AM
Mike really threw Ben under the bus on the Monday show. In so many words thought he " **** the bed " in the Ravens game and was in no way a franchise QB. He belittled his coming demand for top pay at his position among other cutting remarks. I like Ben a lot and consider him to be a real warrior, but really think his age is beginning to show ( just like Heath Miller ) and no longer worth the big bucks he would like to get. We certainly have more pressing needs for the dough rather than to keep him happy!

SidSmythe
01-06-2015, 10:34 AM
His age is beginning to show AFTER having one his best years of his career???

feltdizz
01-06-2015, 11:24 AM
His age is beginning to show AFTER having one his best years of his career???

Le'Veon Bell or it didn't happen.

We run a nice ball control offense BUT given how much we pay Ben I think it's OK to wonder if he is worth another big contract. We go as Ben goes but IMO I think we were going to see Gradowski throw a TD if Ben didn't come back in the game.

Not trying to jump on Ben because he admitted he underperformed but we can't keep bragging about his best year ever when we couldn't put points up at home without his security blanket.

Flacco played like Ben should have played... and that's unfortunate but also telling given how many other weapons we have on offense.

Oviedo
01-06-2015, 11:31 AM
I like Ben a lot and consider him to be a real warrior, but really think his age is beginning to show ( just like Heath Miller ) and no longer worth the big bucks he would like to get. We certainly have more pressing needs for the dough rather than to keep him happy!

Really? And who would you have for the Steelers QB? Would he lead the league in passing yards, set team highs for completions and TDs? After one game, everyone wants to forget that Ben carried this team this year with a horrible defense and won the division. I was a fan for the 30 years between Bradshaw and Ben and trust me when you have a QB like Ben you hold on to them as long as you can because not having one is ugly.

Indeeeeeeed
01-06-2015, 11:40 AM
DEJAN KOVACEVIC, DK ON PITTSBURGH SPORTS

One last look at the Steelers’ (for real) last game …

• Ben Roethlisberger apologized to pretty much everyone who’s ever known a 412 or 724 area code Saturday night, including “the fans, my teammates, the organization, the Rooneys and the coaches.” And his explanation for that was that he “didn’t play well enough to win.”

The latter is indisputable, obviously, as is any assessment that Ben wasn’t at his best.

But was he that bad?

Depends on how one would like to dole out the blame, I suppose.


By the numbers: Roethlisberger completed 31 of 45 passes for 334 yards, one touchdown and two interceptions. Those last two stand out glaringly. He was 5 of 14 for 60 yards when under pressure, which isn’t bad either in the volume of pressures or the performance when it came. He wasn’t hit once as he threw. I’ll use that information to at least downplay the impact of the offensive line not playing well against the Ravens’ formidable front seven. Roethlisberger did get sacked five times, but at least two of those were squarely on him, as he never threw the ball away.

Switching over to the receivers, including running backs: Of the 45 times they were targeted, they caught 33 passes with two drops, one each by Heath Miller and Ben Tate. They weren’t effective at all in getting yards after the catch with 126 — a stunningly low 26 for Antonio Brown against all his double-teams — or in terms of blocking for the backs or for themselves on the receiver screens. Overall, it wasn’t the worst showing, but it was far from the best.

So what’s left?

I’ll point to two facets:

1. The return of the sideways nonsense.

Maybe Todd Haley’s game plan was built on the fear of not having Le’Veon Bell, maybe it was on the expected rain that never materialized, maybe both. Whatever the case, Roethlisberger threw eight passes behind the line of scrimmage, and those plays accounted for a total of 33 yards. Expanding the field slightly, Roethlisberger threw 19 passes that traveled 0-10 yards from the line of scrimmage, and those accounted for a total of 113 yards. In this range, nine passes went sharply left or right rather than down the middle.

This, my friends, is living in your fears. It’s not fiction. It’s not narrative. It’s not Haley-bashing. It’s fact. The Steelers’ offense reverted to its early-season look without Bell.

On passes that traveled more than 10 yards in the air — actually downfield — Roethlisberger was 9 of 15 for 185 yards. But attempting only 15 of those in 51 passing plays is the dagger. And it’s a self-inflicted wound, at that.

For comparison’s sake, 13 of Flacco’s 27 passes — roughly half — traveled 10 or more yards and accounted for 146 yards. He threw only two passes behind the line of scrimmage. And he was pressured on 15 of those 27 plays, so save the argument that he had more time.

2. Red-zone failure.

The tone was set the first time the Steelers touched the Baltimore 20, that on their second drive of the opening quarter: Pass short right to Josh Harris for no gain, Dri Archer run up the middle for minus-1 yards and a 6-yard loss when Roethlisberger was brought down by Elvis Dumervil. Sideways, stupid and a sack.

On 11 total red-zone plays from scrimmage, Roethlisberger threw a pass longer than 5 yards exactly twice. One was the 6-yard touchdown to Martavis Bryant, the other the late interception.

And never mind the red zone. Anywhere on the Baltimore side of the 50, the Steelers ran 29 offensive plays, and Brown was targeted only eight of those. Dri Archer was targeted on four.

Because “we took what they were giving us,” to quote Tomlin from a few weeks back?

Yes, that and living in your fears.

feltdizz
01-06-2015, 12:25 PM
Really? And who would you have for the Steelers QB? Would he lead the league in passing yards, set team highs for completions and TDs? After one game, everyone wants to forget that Ben carried this team this year with a horrible defense and won the division. I was a fan for the 30 years between Bradshaw and Ben and trust me when you have a QB like Ben you hold on to them as long as you can because not having one is ugly.

Le'Veon Bell carried this team.

feltdizz
01-06-2015, 12:28 PM
On 11 total red-zone plays from scrimmage, Roethlisberger threw a pass longer than 5 yards exactly twice. One was the 6-yard touchdown to Martavis Bryant, the other the late interception.

Damn shame our franchise QB isn't getting aggressive play calling in the RZ.

phillyesq
01-06-2015, 12:33 PM
Really? And who would you have for the Steelers QB? Would he lead the league in passing yards, set team highs for completions and TDs? After one game, everyone wants to forget that Ben carried this team this year with a horrible defense and won the division. I was a fan for the 30 years between Bradshaw and Ben and trust me when you have a QB like Ben you hold on to them as long as you can because not having one is ugly.

Ben has lost a bit of his playoff magic, but I'd absolutely take him over any available alternative. I'd also rather not go back to O'Donnell, Tomczak, Miller, Graham, Stewart, Maddox, et. al.

papillon
01-06-2015, 12:47 PM
Le'Veon Bell carried this team.

Same result without Ben and Le'Veon playing, neither player carried the team, they worked together. Replace Ben with Grad and Harris/Tate/Archer with a 100% healthy Bell and the score is the same, IMO.

Pappy

flippy
01-06-2015, 12:51 PM
Ben should be paid based on his ability to lead the team to TDs. Since he struggles in the RZ, I think the team has to allocate more money to our D to prevent the other team from scoring TDs.

For us to win, Ben has to put up huge points. And that isn't happening with consistency. The criticism while harsh seems fair.

grotonsteel
01-06-2015, 01:02 PM
Ben should be paid based on his ability to lead the team to TDs. Since he struggles in the RZ, I think the team has to allocate more money to our D to prevent the other team from scoring TDs.

For us to win, Ben has to put up huge points. And that isn't happening with consistency. The criticism while harsh seems fair.

No team can consistently score 30 points a game while playing for TOP. Defense is also paid money to stop a 3rd down once in a while.

grotonsteel
01-06-2015, 01:06 PM
Mike really threw Ben under the bus on the Monday show. In so many words thought he " **** the bed " in the Ravens game and was in no way a franchise QB. He belittled his coming demand for top pay at his position among other cutting remarks. I like Ben a lot and consider him to be a real warrior, but really think his age is beginning to show ( just like Heath Miller ) and no longer worth the big bucks he would like to get. We certainly have more pressing needs for the dough rather than to keep him happy!

Not worth the big bucks???.....:D

Whom should Steelers sign for QB position??? QB do get payed. If Andy Dalton and Tony Romo can get paid so would Big Ben.

Dee Dub
01-06-2015, 01:20 PM
Flacco played like Ben should have played... and that's unfortunate but also telling given how many other weapons we have on offense.

Flacco played with a clean pocket. Ben didn't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So how was Ben suppose to have played like Flacco? Nevermind.....an answer from you would only further go into the realm of retartedness.

Indeeeeeeed
01-06-2015, 01:23 PM
Flacco has Gary Kubiak, a proven OC who attacks defenses and keeps moving the pocket to protect his QB and his offensive line.

Ben has a college golfer who won the race to the egg.

feltdizz
01-06-2015, 01:37 PM
Same result without Ben and Le'Veon playing, neither player carried the team, they worked together. Replace Ben with Grad and Harris/Tate/Archer with a 100% healthy Bell and the score is the same, IMO.

Pappy

maybe... but I remember Dennis Dixon almost winning in Baltimore. I think the game may have been closer with Bell due to his ability to slow down the rush and break down LB's in the flat.

feltdizz
01-06-2015, 01:40 PM
Flacco played with a clean pocket. Ben didn't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So how was Ben suppose to have played like Flacco? Nevermind.....an answer from you would only further go into the realm of retartedness.

For comparison’s sake, 13 of Flacco’s 27 passes — roughly half — traveled 10 or more yards and accounted for 146 yards. He threw only two passes behind the line of scrimmage. And he was pressured on 15 of those 27 plays, so save the argument that he had more time.

Flacco moved his feet when he felt pressure and took more shots down field...



Ben should have played more like AJ McCaron or Matt Barkley. :stirpot

papillon
01-06-2015, 02:33 PM
Flacco played with a clean pocket. Ben didn't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So how was Ben suppose to have played like Flacco? Nevermind.....an answer from you would only further go into the realm of retartedness.

I disagree with that, Flacco was pressured and hit more than Ben, but sacked less, Flacco didn't have a clean pocket all night, but he made plays under pressure more often than Ben did. Ben played well, just not better than Flacco on this night, it happens.

Pappy

papillon
01-06-2015, 02:34 PM
maybe... but I remember Dennis Dixon almost winning in Baltimore. I think the game may have been closer with Bell due to his ability to slow down the rush and break down LB's in the flat.

Gradkowski over 60 minutes IMO would have been carnage, he made 3 good plays in a pinch, over 60 minutes Suggs and Dumervil would have introduced themselves.

Pappy

feltdizz
01-06-2015, 04:28 PM
Gradkowski over 60 minutes IMO would have been carnage, he made 3 good plays in a pinch, over 60 minutes Suggs and Dumervil would have introduced themselves.

Pappy

the board said the same thing about Dixon when we went to Baltimore...

Gradowski is better than Dixon and if we had Bell those LB's would be winded from chasing him in the flat all day.

Totally different game if Bell is in and Ben is out IMO. Not knocking Ben but his best attribute is making plays after contact. Grad may have been dumping it off underneath all night.

feltdizz
01-06-2015, 04:30 PM
I disagree with that, Flacco was pressured and hit more than Ben, but sacked less, Flacco didn't have a clean pocket all night, but he made plays under pressure more often than Ben did. Ben played well, just not better than Flacco on this night, it happens.

Pappy

exactly... $$$$

Shawn
01-06-2015, 04:44 PM
It's Haleys fault.

7upnext
01-06-2015, 09:41 PM
Lots of his yards came in garbage time. He led them to losses against really bad teams. He also has a very serviceable offensive line, maybe the best collection of weapons on offense in the league too. Most of the QBs that have failed throughout history did so because of the system they were in, coaches they had, lack of talent, lack of weapons around him. Plenty of ho hum QB have succeeded (statistically and win wise) because they had all that Ben has to work with. Who knows how well a different QB would do with all this talent around him. Could he do worse than Ben did on Sat?

papillon
01-06-2015, 09:43 PM
Lots of his yards came in garbage time. He led them to losses against really bad teams. He also has a very serviceable offensive line, maybe the best collection of weapons on offense in the league too. Most of the QBs that have failed throughout history did so because of the system they were in, coaches they had, lack of talent, lack of weapons around him. Plenty of ho hum QB have succeeded (statistically and win wise) because they had all that Ben has to work with. Who knows how well a different QB would do with all this talent around him. Could he do worse than Ben did on Sat?

Two words: Ryan Lindley

Pappy

NorthCoast
01-06-2015, 11:44 PM
The inconsistency in scoring TDs I think can be partly pinned on a very young WR corp. aside from Brown. While there were visible improvements this season, Roethlisberger has not completely established the trust in their route running. There doesn't appear to be evidence he is holding the ball longer or else the OL has gotten much better because his sack rate was very low this season. Bell certainly helped that cause.

Interestingly, the same kind of discussion is going on in CIN over Dalton. Some are suggesting they cut him because he will never be able to win in the post season. What they fail to remember is that before Dalton, the Bumgals weren't even in the post season for over a decade.

JoshBroski
01-07-2015, 12:03 AM
Steeler fans are downright stupid. It really pains me to say we might have the most retarded fan base. Bad games happen. Ben is not Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, or Tom Brady but he's up there and guess what? All of these guys have bad games. Look at Peyton's last SB. That was literally the worst performance I've ever seen from a quarterback.

Ben's coming off his best season. 30+ TDs and less than 10 INTs. That's what you expect from a great QB. The defense on the other hand was bottom 20 and allowed at least 1 big play in ever game. That's not what you want.

NorthCoast
01-07-2015, 12:23 AM
Steeler fans are downright stupid. It really pains me to say we might have the most retarded fan base. Bad games happen. Ben is not Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, or Tom Brady but he's up there and guess what? All of these guys have bad games. Look at Peyton's last SB. That was literally the worst performance I've ever seen from a quarterback.

Ben's coming off his best season. 30+ TDs and less than 10 INTs. That's what you expect from a great QB. The defense on the other hand was bottom 20 and allowed at least 1 big play in ever game. That's not what you want.

Fans are debating Roethlisberger's financial value, not his game value. How much and for how long should the next contract be? If he is not Rodgers, Manning, or Brady then where does that put him in the salary bracket?

Also keep in mind that in more than 1/3 of the games this season Roethlisberger scored only 1 passing TD.

JoshBroski
01-07-2015, 01:12 AM
Fans are debating Roethlisberger's financial value, not his game value. How much and for how long should the next contract be? If he is not Rodgers, Manning, or Brady then where does that put him in the salary bracket?

Also keep in mind that in more than 1/3 of the games this season Roethlisberger scored only 1 passing TD.

The highest paid QBs last season include guys like Kaepernick and Matt Ryan. Ben deserves to be paid more than both of them. He should get a Romo-like deal.

NJ-STEELER
01-07-2015, 01:13 AM
His age is beginning to show AFTER having one his best years of his career???

idiots.

if people are worried about how much the steelers will pay him all anyone has to do is see what other QBs in the league make

NJ-STEELER
01-07-2015, 01:26 AM
Lots of his yards came in garbage time. He led them to losses against really bad teams. He also has a very serviceable offensive line, maybe the best collection of weapons on offense in the league too. Most of the QBs that have failed throughout history did so because of the system they were in, coaches they had, lack of talent, lack of weapons around him. Plenty of ho hum QB have succeeded (statistically and win wise) because they had all that Ben has to work with. Who knows how well a different QB would do with all this talent around him. Could he do worse than Ben did on Sat?

yet, there's just one 2nd round pick starting at those skill positions and 2 late round WRs.

SS Laser
01-07-2015, 01:39 AM
Ben should do a Brady type deal. Brady just helped the Pats free up money for 2015 again with a restructure of his "new" contract. IF Ben wants to retire a Steeler like he says and all that matters to him is wins then do a deal to help pay other players to help win. Should not be that hard with Brady's contract already done. Easy to just follow that.

NJ-STEELER
01-07-2015, 02:07 AM
The highest paid QBs last season include guys like Kaepernick and Matt Ryan. Ben deserves to be paid more than both of them. He should get a Romo-like deal.

andy dalton 6 years $96M

flacco - 6 years $120M
romo -6 years $108M
kapernick - 6 yr $114M

Rodgers. 5 yr 110m
ryan. 5yr 104m
brady. 3 yr. 57 m
peyton. 5yr. 96 m
stafford 3 yr. 53 m
brees. 5. Yr 100 m

SS Laser
01-07-2015, 02:12 AM
andy dalton 6 years $96M

flacco - 6 years $120M
romo -6 years $108M
kapernick - 6 yr $114M




































The Kapernick deal is very cap friendly if they were to cut him it has been said many times. Almost a bunch of one year deals some how? I think the same was said of the Dalton deal. Don't think Ben would want a "cut" you if we please type deal just so it sounds like a bunch of money.

Mr.wizard
01-07-2015, 06:48 AM
His age is showing? He just finished the season as a division champ with an 11-5 record. He is coming off the best year of his career 103.3 passer rating 32 tds almost 5,000 yards passing, over 400 completions at 67%, he also had 2 games this past season where he threw 6 td passes. If you think you can just grab some other guy, plug him in and get those results, you are absolutely crazy!

Oviedo
01-07-2015, 09:20 AM
His age is showing? He just finished the season as a division champ with an 11-5 record. He is coming off the best year of his career 103.3 passer rating 32 tds almost 5,000 yards passing, over 400 completions at 67%, he also had 2 games this past season where he threw 6 td passes. If you think you can just grab some other guy, plug him in and get those results, you are absolutely crazy!
$$$$$$ Too many spoiled fans who don't remember our years wandering lost in the QB desert between Bradshaw and Ben

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
01-07-2015, 11:44 AM
Guys, keep in mind that the original article comes from Mike Florio - a notorious Steelers hater. Read it with as many grains of salt as you can find.

steelblood
01-07-2015, 03:11 PM
I am tired of Ben apologists and Ben Haters. Let's see the guy for what he is, an incredibly tough, physically gifted QB who is very good, but not elite at reading defenses and getting the ball out on time. He will always hold it too long. Sometimes, he will turn it into magic and sometimes he will look like he did on Saturday night. As Ben ages, this type of game will become less effective. Offer Ben a fair deal for a 6 year term. Then, trade him if he rejects it. Done

fezziwig
01-07-2015, 06:17 PM
Say all you want about Ben but, I'd like to know how well Flacco would have done without his security blanket running back. Flaccos previous running back was a huge reason IMHO the Ravens made it to and won their last Super Bowl . If we don't sign Ben to a new contract, who will be the next great quarterback for us then ? Ben is still a top five QB in this league and will be for the next three season in my opinion. Are we going to turn over our current offense to a rookie, one of our backups ? We are so used to seeing Ben put this team on his shoulders and doing things that, made any team want him, we are now spoiled when he can't overcome the poor play of others... Not even poor but, performing the magic that he does at time. I don't think Ben was getting the needed comfort zone against the Ravens, we had little to no run game, receivers weren't getting open as they normally do, Antonio not dragging both feet for the TD. Can't blame it all on Ben.

Steelerphile
01-07-2015, 06:46 PM
The main problem with Ben is that he sometimes holds the ball and takes unnecessary sacks. His mobility is also very limited. He doesn't escape sacks or make many yards with his feet.

But when he is in groove and throwing in rhythym and really feeling it, he is all time great. He was doing that for the most part this season.

NorthCoast
01-07-2015, 08:28 PM
I am tired of Ben apologists and Ben Haters. Let's see the guy for what he is, an incredibly tough, physically gifted QB who is very good, but not elite at reading defenses and getting the ball out on time. He will always hold it too long. Sometimes, he will turn it into magic and sometimes he will look like he did on Saturday night. As Ben ages, this type of game will become less effective. Offer Ben a fair deal for a 6 year term. Then, trade him if he rejects it. Done

6 yrs for a QB that plays the way Roethlisberger plays? Do you really believe he will be effective to age 40? With the kind of QB he is, I predict the falloff will be very quick. The big question is when will that start to happen...??? Details of this next contract will be key for the Steelers.

feltdizz
01-07-2015, 08:41 PM
6 yrs for a QB that plays the way Roethlisberger plays? Do you really believe he will be effective to age 40? With the kind of QB he is, I predict the falloff will be very quick. The big question is when will that start to happen...??? Details of this next contract will be key for the Steelers.

6 years sound about right to me.

RuthlessBurgher
01-08-2015, 11:08 AM
6 yrs for a QB that plays the way Roethlisberger plays? Do you really believe he will be effective to age 40? With the kind of QB he is, I predict the falloff will be very quick. The big question is when will that start to happen...??? Details of this next contract will be key for the Steelers.

He probably plays 5 more years, but you can tack on a bogus 6th season to the contract with a balloon payment at the end which he will never receive just to make the overall contract look more impressive but still keeping his cap hit somewhat manageable for next 5 years.

feltdizz
01-08-2015, 01:26 PM
He probably plays 5 more years, but you can tack on a bogus 6th season to the contract with a balloon payment at the end which he will never receive just to make the overall contract look more impressive but still keeping his cap hit somewhat manageable for next 5 years.

yes, I doubt he see's that 6th year but it would look good on paper...