Roethlisberger's Playoff Woes

[NorthCoast]

The Steelers are 0-4 in playoffs when Roethlisberger has 40 or more pass attempts.

[Steelhere10]

Man don't get Crash started. Lol

[papillon]

Ben has been most effective since he was a rookie when he throws less than 32 or 33 times per game. The Steelers didn't have the defense this year to stay with a non-existent running game, so they handed the ball to Ben and asked him to try and beat a very good Ravens defense, he couldn't last night. I'll take my chances with Ben all day.

Pappy

[flippy]

Ben just can't seem to carry this team without the D. Seems like we need a D spark to get Ben to up his play. I don't fully understand it. It just doesn't feel like Ben has that clutch gene he once had.

There was a time I believed Ben could do anything. Not so much any more. I still think he's a great QB. But at the same time, I'm also concerned we're going to have to give more of our cap to Ben at a time that he's passed deserving so much of the cap. And I suspect it may hamstring us from winning future SuperBowls. Not that we can win them without him either. And not that we have anyone else that needs more of the cap dollars to stay and get us to another SuperBowl.

Our team needs to magically draft well again. That's really the only fix here that I see getting us over the hump. And I'm not 100% sold Tomlin/Colbert are the duo to get the right guys in the draft to right this ship.

I can't quite describe it. There's a lot to be hopeful about, but the path we're on still seems like it's just a path to above average as a team. I'm not sure how we get on the path to SuperBowl contention again?

[skyhawk]

Every QB folds against that Raven D last night during their super bowl.

[NorthCoast]

Ben just can't seem to carry this team without the D. Seems like we need a D spark to get Ben to up his play. I don't fully understand it. It just doesn't feel like Ben has that clutch gene he once had.

There was a time I believed Ben could do anything. Not so much any more. I still think he's a great QB. But at the same time, I'm also concerned we're going to have to give more of our cap to Ben at a time that he's passed deserving so much of the cap. And I suspect it may hamstring us from winning future SuperBowls. Not that we can win them without him either. And not that we have anyone else that needs more of the cap dollars to stay and get us to another SuperBowl.

Our team needs to magically draft well again. That's really the only fix here that I see getting us over the hump. And I'm not 100% sold Tomlin/Colbert are the duo to get the right guys in the draft to right this ship.

I can't quite describe it. There's a lot to be hopeful about, but the path we're on still seems like it's just a path to above average as a team. I'm not sure how we get on the path to SuperBowl contention again?

I am a little more positive on the Steelers than maybe you are. I think a lot of games come down to individual matchups and mismatches. That's one reason why we are seeing wildly different games from week to week.

A Brown is a mismatch for any CB in the NFL on any weekend.

Mike Adams and to a lesser extent M Gilbert is a negative mismatch in most games.

While Heyward was good this season, there really has been no one else beating their man in a mismatch on the defensive line. 22 sacks by Steelers LBs is not good enough to win very many games against good QBs. The DL needs to help. Tuitt may help that situation next season but was just too green this season. This defense really needs the OLBs to make more plays on a consistent basis. Some games this season they were completely irrelevant.

[NorthCoast]

Ben has been most effective since he was a rookie when he throws less than 32 or 33 times per game. The Steelers didn't have the defense this year to stay with a non-existent running game, so they handed the ball to Ben and asked him to try and beat a very good Ravens defense, he couldn't last night. I'll take my chances with Ben all day.

Pappy

I was curious so I looked it up. Since 2010 Roethlisberger is 3-14 when attempting >40 passes in a game in the regular season.

[papillon]

I was curious so I looked it up. Since 2010 Roethlisberger is 3-14 when attempting >40 passes in a game in the regular season.

Not surprising, I'd be interested in all the elite quarterbacks winning percentage when they have to sling it 40 times or more. They may be better than Ben's, but still probably 50/50 at best.

Pappy

[NJ-STEELER]

should we have kept running harris and archer into the teeth of Balt's defense?

[MrGreeneJeans]

should we have kept running harris and archer into the teeth of Balt's defense?

Until the people here understand context? The REAL fans who follow this team will get a bad rap from the ignorant fans who don't.

[Slapstick]

Yeah, Crash, with Ben putting up career numbers, I can see that...:rolleyes:

[MrGreeneJeans]

Yeah, Crash, with Ben putting up career numbers, I can see that...:rolleyes:

32 TD passes in 404 attempts in 2007

or

32 TD passes in 608 attempts in 2014.

What's better?

His QB rating in 2007 was also higher.

Garbage time yards and scores in losses mean nothing. That's what Philip Rivers has been doing for 5 years.

Is that what you want Ben to be?

[JoshBroski]

Ben just can't seem to carry this team without the D. Seems like we need a D spark to get Ben to up his play. I don't fully understand it. It just doesn't feel like Ben has that clutch gene he once had.

There was a time I believed Ben could do anything. Not so much any more. I still think he's a great QB. But at the same time, I'm also concerned we're going to have to give more of our cap to Ben at a time that he's passed deserving so much of the cap. And I suspect it may hamstring us from winning future SuperBowls. Not that we can win them without him either. And not that we have anyone else that needs more of the cap dollars to stay and get us to another SuperBowl.

Our team needs to magically draft well again. That's really the only fix here that I see getting us over the hump. And I'm not 100% sold Tomlin/Colbert are the duo to get the right guys in the draft to right this ship.

I can't quite describe it. There's a lot to be hopeful about, but the path we're on still seems like it's just a path to above average as a team. I'm not sure how we get on the path to SuperBowl contention again?

Ben carried this team all season and had the #2 offense in the league. Brees has been leading his team to losing records for the last few years. Is he criticized the same way? He had shutdown Keenan Lewis on his team too.

He played a bad game. When he plays a bad game we lose. That means he carries the team. He's been fantastic for the most part this season and he looks like he's improved his play from previous seasons.

[Starlifter]

There is passing and there is passing. throwing balls downfield is one thing, but without bell and a legitimate rushing attack - i thought our game plan should have revolved around quick passes and short drops to get the ball out of the backfield and negate the rush. hate to be a monday morning QB, but with the pressure ben was under all night - even if that wasn't the game plan, we didn't do a very good job of adjusting to it. unless of course the only available adjustment was to have archer in there. I honestly can't think of another reason why he saw the field so much.

[Slapstick]

32 TD passes in 404 attempts in 2007

or

32 TD passes in 608 attempts in 2014.

What's better?

His QB rating in 2007 was also higher.

Garbage time yards and scores in losses mean nothing. That's what Philip Rivers has been doing for 5 years.

Is that what you want Ben to be?

2007 = 10-6

2014 = 11-5

Winning is what I want Ben to do.

2007 = 11 INTs and Sacked 47 times

2014 = 9 INTs and Sacked 33 times

Which is better for Ben and the team?

[Mr.wizard]

Obviously you throw the ball more if you are losing, and obviously you throw the ball more if your defense is bad because you cant put teams away, and if your defense is bad you lose more.

[papillon]

Obviously you throw the ball more if you are losing, and obviously you throw the ball more if your defense is bad because you cant put teams away, and if your defense is bad you lose more.

The Steelers were losing because they were playing bad and Ben was part of it. Regardless of the reason for the 40 plus attempts, history tells us that Ben becomes less effective when he throws it over the 32/33 attempt range. I love Ben and can't wait for next year and have said over and over that he has been such a unique quarterback that if you aren't sitting back and enjoying the ride (the good and the bad) you'll be sorry because he can't play forever. Enjoy the moment folks it won't last forever and there isn't going to be another player like him for a long time.

Pappy

[bostonsteeler]

The Steelers were losing because they were playing bad and Ben was part of it. Regardless of the reason for the 40 plus attempts, history tells us that Ben becomes less effective when he throws it over the 32/33 attempt range. I love Ben and can't wait for next year and have said over and over that he has been such a unique quarterback that if you aren't sitting back and enjoying the ride (the good and the bad) you'll be sorry because he can't play forever. Enjoy the moment folks it won't last forever and there isn't going to be another player like him for a long time.

Pappy

This is the right attitude..
We have a once in a generation QB. We may not see another like him in Pit in a while. Enjoy the ride..

[Eich]

Garbage time yards and scores in losses mean nothing. That's what Philip Rivers has been doing for 5 years.

Is that what you want Ben to be?

Yeah, those 12 TDs in WINS against Indy + RatsII were all garbage time yards and scores. :Blah

I'll give you this, you're consistent. Up until we win a Super Bowl, you spend all your time defending Ben with your hand-picked statistics and trash ownership and every coach involved with the team. When we're winning, you either disappear or tell everyone, "See, this is what happens when you do X/Y/Z". When we lose, you show up to tell everyone how you were right about how poor Ben is not used correctly. Unless we win it all, they're all misusing Ben and want him run out of town.

[feltdizz]

Why did Ben come back to throw that awful INT? That was very Favre-ish

[Eich]

Why did Ben come back to throw that awful INT? That was very Favre-ish

I think it was a coaching mistake to put him back in so quickly. He was clearly dazed. I really believe the head-bounce on the turf lead to that INT. Even if he passed concussion tests, I think they should have kept him out for that particular series. Bruce was doing just fine. But it's easy for me to say in hindsight.

[Slapstick]

The crazy thing is this:

He makes a point of saying that Ben's QB rating was higher in 2007. In fact, it was 104.1 vs 103.3. So, that is 0.8 points higher.

Now, look at the increased number of attempts versus the decrease in both sacks and INTs. In 2014 compared to 2007, Ben was sacked at roughly half the rate per dropback and threw INTs at roughly half the rate per attempt. Think about that. Furthermore, his YpA was higher in 2014 while his comp% increased by around 2%. So, it appears that the Haley "dink and dunk" myth isn't entirely accurate. Did players take some short passes for long gains? Sure. How is that a problem?

[flippy]

There is passing and there is passing. throwing balls downfield is one thing, but without bell and a legitimate rushing attack - i thought our game plan should have revolved around quick passes and short drops to get the ball out of the backfield and negate the rush. hate to be a monday morning QB, but with the pressure ben was under all night - even if that wasn't the game plan, we didn't do a very good job of adjusting to it. unless of course the only available adjustment was to have archer in there. I honestly can't think of another reason why he saw the field so much.

I was surprised we didn't come out in 5 WR sets given Bell's injury and Baltimore's DB issues. Plus if we would have run a lot of 5 WR no huddle, we'd have worn out Baltimore's big guys up front.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

I'll just say this to any BB Tread. Every equation where the Steelers win another SB over the next 3-4 years has BB in it. Love him or hate him...He is a piece that has to be in place.

[BradshawsHairdresser]

I was surprised we didn't come out in 5 WR sets given Bell's injury and Baltimore's DB issues. Plus if we would have run a lot of 5 WR no huddle, we'd have worn out Baltimore's big guys up front.

That's what I would have liked to have seen. I think it would have worked, too.

[feltdizz]

Do we want to win SB's or QB ratings and offensive rankings?

Cause all these stats mean jack sh!t when you lose a home playoff game. I'm not happy the way this O performed the other night and it seems like some people are ecstatic because Ben was "healthy" this year. Once it was crunch time we saw the same old offensive struggles we have been seeing for the the last few years.

I think Ben is who he is and all the "fixing" that we are trying to do won't change who he is when the lights are on and we need a playoff win. Ben is going to hold the ball, he is going to take sacks and he is going to need our D to step up and make plays.

People used to get upset when we had 4 sacks and WON a playoff game with Ben and BA. This TOP crap should have been thrown out the window. 4 wide or 5 wide no huddle should have been the game plan.

Yes, I'm still upset.

[steelsnis]

The 40+ attempts stat is so clearly flawed.

The Steelers don't lose because Ben throws the ball 40+ times. More often than not, Ben throws the ball 40+ times BECAUSE the Steelers are losing!

[Sword]

Coaches put players in a position to win or lose....
plays, strategy, routes, schema's, etc........

Even the greatest QB in history can fail by Coaches calling the wrong game plan....

[Sword]

I was surprised we didn't come out in 5 WR sets given Bell's injury and Baltimore's DB issues. Plus if we would have run a lot of 5 WR no huddle, we'd have worn out Baltimore's big guys up front.
you are correct, the game plan sucked and that is the number one reason why we lost....

[pfelix73]

You guys watching on TV wouldn't have seen it, but there were at least 3 occasions where Archer took off around the LT and was WIDE OPEN. Ben never saw him as he was looking the other way. 1 instance there was no Raven within 30 yards + of him. Almost like the Ravens decided not to play against him and put a 2nd defender on someone else. Baffling.. I was yelling every time I saw this....

[feltdizz]

You guys watching on TV wouldn't have seen it, but there were at least 3 occasions where Archer took off around the LT and was WIDE OPEN. Ben never saw him as he was looking the other way. 1 instance there was no Raven within 30 yards + of him. Almost like the Ravens decided not to play against him and put a 2nd defender on someone else. Baffling.. I was yelling every time I saw this....

Ben is okay with dumping it off to Bell but I think he felt like he had to win the game all by himself by looking for downfield shots. IMO the dump off to the RB is the primary reason Ben's stats look so good this year.

Archer has been open a lot and maybe it's size or trust but for some reason Ben fails to see him in the flat unless it's a designed play. He was wide open on the TD they called back too...

[Slapstick]

Nah, Archer just sucks.:rolleyes:

[flippy]

Anyone know the Steelers annual Red Zone efficiency each year during the Big Ben era?

At some point during the season, I think we were almost dead last in terms of % of TDs we get in the Red Zone. I wonder how that efficiency compares to other franchise QBs? I think that's one of important metrics for a QB that doesn't get that much attention. Seems like Red Zone TDs correlate to a QB's ability to make quick decisions. It feels like our QB regularly struggles in this area and this really hurts us in the playoffs when the competition gets better.

Although it hurts us when the competition is bad.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like guys like Manning have nearly double the efficiency of Ben in the Red Zone. And I always wonder why?

[NorthCoast]

Between 2004-2009 Roethlisberger was 6-6 when attempting >40 passes in a game.

The best in the game? T Brady wins almost 2 out of 3 games when tossing >40 passes.

[NJ-STEELER]

Between 2004-2009 Roethlisberger was 6-6 when attempting >40 passes in a game.

The best in the game? T Brady wins almost 2 out of 3 games when tossing >40 passes.

helps when your team is built for that

T brady is on the short list of best QBs to ever play in the game.

[NorthCoast]

helps when your team is built for that

T brady is on the short list of best QBs to ever play in the game.

built for what?? the years between Moss and Gronk, Brady has had some of the worst WR corps in the NFL. Yes, he is one of the best ever.

Wouldn't trade Ben for any QB, but what I didn't tell you is that his win percentage when passing >40 times in the last 4 yrs is worse than a long list of NFL QBs including: Dalton, Flacco, Romo, Ryan, Stafford, Schaub and others.

[bostonsteeler]

built for what?? the years between Moss and Gronk, Brady has had some of the worst WR corps in the NFL. Yes, he is one of the best ever.

Wouldn't trade Ben for any QB, but what I didn't tell you is that his win percentage when passing >40 times in the last 4 yrs is worse than a long list of NFL QBs including: Dalton, Flacco, Romo, Ryan, Stafford, Schaub and others.


In the past 4 years, when he's tossed > 40 times, we have been behind and our D has stunk, and our overall win percentage is worse than any of the other teams you mention.

[feltdizz]

Anyone know the Steelers annual Red Zone efficiency each year during the Big Ben era?

At some point during the season, I think we were almost dead last in terms of % of TDs we get in the Red Zone. I wonder how that efficiency compares to other franchise QBs? I think that's one of important metrics for a QB that doesn't get that much attention. Seems like Red Zone TDs correlate to a QB's ability to make quick decisions. It feels like our QB regularly struggles in this area and this really hurts us in the playoffs when the competition gets better.

Although it hurts us when the competition is bad.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like guys like Manning have nearly double the efficiency of Ben in the Red Zone. And I always wonder why?

You know why, we all know why... but some people can't admit the obvious.

Ben is horrible in the RZ.

As far as Brady is concerned.... take away his security blanket in Gronk or Welker underneath and he struggles.

Brady is a beast because the system he is in the best system in football and his mwchanics are top notch.

[Chadman]

Anyone know the Steelers annual Red Zone efficiency each year during the Big Ben era?

At some point during the season, I think we were almost dead last in terms of % of TDs we get in the Red Zone. I wonder how that efficiency compares to other franchise QBs? I think that's one of important metrics for a QB that doesn't get that much attention. Seems like Red Zone TDs correlate to a QB's ability to make quick decisions. It feels like our QB regularly struggles in this area and this really hurts us in the playoffs when the competition gets better.

Although it hurts us when the competition is bad.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like guys like Manning have nearly double the efficiency of Ben in the Red Zone. And I always wonder why?

This is not a discredit to the QB Ben is- BUT....the field is shorter in the RZ, decision time is diminished, and both of those factors mean that Ben's #1 strength- his ability to buy time- is reduced. I do not think Ben sees the field as well as a Brady or Manning. I don't think he can see the holes the same way. And, you might count this as a discredit if you like, I believe Ben 'thinks' he is better than he actually is. So much so that, i'm not sure a really stringent coaching plan in the RZ is going to necessarily be followed to the letter by Ben.

For Ben to really blossom, forget the D, forget the WR's- he needs a reliable running game that can be effective in the RZ. It will remove the amount of pass attempts he needs to make.

I agree with the observation on Archer earlier- there seemed to be a number of times he broke free & was never looked at as an option. If his name was Bell, I doubt that happens.

[NJ-STEELER]

built for what?? the years between Moss and Gronk, Brady has had some of the worst WR corps in the NFL. Yes, he is one of the best ever.

Wouldn't trade Ben for any QB, but what I didn't tell you is that his win percentage when passing >40 times in the last 4 yrs is worse than a long list of NFL QBs including: Dalton, Flacco, Romo, Ryan, Stafford, Schaub and others.

you dont think that offense was built for the pass? with their OL and quick passing game?

you cited 2004-2009. moss got there 2007 when his passing numbers sky rocketed. so did welker. one was traded for, the other signed to an offer sheet and then traded for.
do you ever see the steelers FO try and get those type of talents? no. Even when they drafted receivers high in the draft they let them go leave as free agents after their rookie contracts were up. they didnt want to hand them big paydays

[BURGH86STEEL]

Anyone know the Steelers annual Red Zone efficiency each year during the Big Ben era?

At some point during the season, I think we were almost dead last in terms of % of TDs we get in the Red Zone. I wonder how that efficiency compares to other franchise QBs? I think that's one of important metrics for a QB that doesn't get that much attention. Seems like Red Zone TDs correlate to a QB's ability to make quick decisions. It feels like our QB regularly struggles in this area and this really hurts us in the playoffs when the competition gets better.

Although it hurts us when the competition is bad.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like guys like Manning have nearly double the efficiency of Ben in the Red Zone. And I always wonder why?
The passing windows are smaller and the coverage is generally tighter in the red zone. Quick decision making & throwing with anticipation appear to be issues for Ben in the red zone. When Ben doesn't play well this offense will always struggle to produce points regardless of the weapons around Ben. It's possible that Ben left 2 or 3 TD's out on the field vs the Ravens.

[flippy]

The passing windows are smaller and the coverage is generally tighter in the red zone. Quick decision making & throwing with anticipation appear to be issues for Ben in the red zone. When Ben doesn't play well this offense will always struggle to produce points regardless of the weapons around Ben. It's possible that Ben left 2 or 3 TD's out on the field vs the Ravens.

I agree. And it makes me wonder how much money we can afford to pay Ben. I also agree with Chadman in that we need a running game to help Ben in the RZ.

So where do we spend our cap dollars? Perhaps we need to become more dominant on the Oline. Perhaps we need to invest in another TE to help. Perhaps we need a big possession WR.

And maybe our dollars need to go more toward our D to keep other teams from scoring.

Here's a question - How far can Ben take us without an elite D? We're going to be putting more money into our O to give Ben more weapons, but does that really help us win SuperBowls? I think Ben can be just as effective with or without great weapons. Superior weapons don't seem to add that much in terms of creating a ton more points.

I still think our SuperBowl formula is Ben + Defense = SuperBowls. Unless we find guys the calibre of James and Troy in their prime on D, I'm not sure we're on the path to getting back to winning a SuperBowl for the rest of Ben's career. Maybe I'm a pessimist, but I'm having a hard time seeing the path to success here given our trajectory and the players we currently have.

[feltdizz]

I agree. And it makes me wonder how much money we can afford to pay Ben. I also agree with Chadman in that we need a running game to help Ben in the RZ.

So where do we spend our cap dollars? Perhaps we need to become more dominant on the Oline. Perhaps we need to invest in another TE to help. Perhaps we need a big possession WR.

And maybe our dollars need to go more toward our D to keep other teams from scoring.

Here's a question - How far can Ben take us without an elite D? We're going to be putting more money into our O to give Ben more weapons, but does that really help us win SuperBowls? I think Ben can be just as effective with or without great weapons. Superior weapons don't seem to add that much in terms of creating a ton more points.

I still think our SuperBowl formula is Ben + Defense = SuperBowls. Unless we find guys the calibre of James and Troy in their prime on D, I'm not sure we're on the path to getting back to winning a SuperBowl for the rest of Ben's career. Maybe I'm a pessimist, but I'm having a hard time seeing the path to success here given our trajectory and the players we currently have.

I agree 100%.

[Indeeeeeeed]

Here's a question - How far can Ben take us without an elite D?

What's sad is people still buy this garbage.

And ANY TIME anyone even says it? They are insulting Ben and his career.

[hawaiiansteel]

Ben Roethlisberger hopeful of deal

Updated: January 6, 2015
By Scott Brown | ESPN.com

PITTSBURGH -- Quarterback Ben Roethlisberger expressed confidence that he and Pittsburgh will agree to a new contract after the 11th-year veteran tied for the NFL lead with 4,952 passing yards and led the Steelers to an AFC North title.

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2015/0103/nfl_a_steelers-ravens1_mb_300x300.jpg

Ben Roethlisberger is entering the final year of his contract in 2015.

Roethlisberger is entering the final year of the eight-year, $102 million deal he signed in 2008, and the Steelers hope to sign him to a contract that will allow the three-time Pro Bowler to finish his career in Pittsburgh.

"I felt great all year [on his contract situation]," Roethlisberger said Tuesday on 93.7 The Fan in Pittsburgh. "Hopefully it's sooner rather than later."

The Steelers normally sign their starting quarterback to a new contract with two years left on his deal. They tabled Roethlisberger's contract talks in July because of their salary-cap situation but said they have every intention of getting a new deal done after the 2014 season.

Team president Art Rooney II has said he wants Roethlisberger to retire as a Steeler.

He is slated to make $11.6 million in the final year of his contract with a cap hit of $18.395 million, according to ESPN Stats & Information. The Steelers could lower the cap hit for 2015 by signing him to a new deal.

Roethlisberger, who turns 33 at the beginning of March, is coming off his best statistical season. The 6-foot-5, 241-pounder became the first player in Steelers history to win at least a share of the NFL passing title. He established franchise single-season marks in passing yards and completions (409) and tied his own Steelers record with 32 touchdown passes.

The Steelers' season ended Saturday night after a 30-17 loss to the visiting Baltimore Ravens in an AFC wild-card game. Roethlisberger threw for 334 yards and a touchdown but was intercepted twice in the Steelers' first-ever playoff loss to the Ravens.

Roethlisberger left the game in the fourth quarter after getting sacked by Ravens outside linebacker Courtney Upshaw, and backup Bruce Gradkowski replaced him for three plays.

After the game, Roethlisberger said he had sustained "whiplash" on the sack. He said on his weekly radio show that he did not sustain a concussion.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12127998/ben-roethlisberger-hopes-sign-new-contract-pittsburgh-steelers

[flippy]

What's sad is people still buy this garbage.

And ANY TIME anyone even says it? They are insulting Ben and his career.

How is that insulting? I think you're taking what I was trying to ask out of context a bit.

Trying to ask, do we really need to spend money on weapons around Ben? Is that really what will make this team better? Ben did ok with a garbage OLine, Ced, ARE, and Ward @ WR and the one dimensional FWP at RB. Compared to the 05 team, we're loaded with weapons on O. But it's not leading to a significant amount more points on the scoreboard.

My point is Ben can be equally good with garbage players around him or All Pros. He's still gonna make time in the middle of the field and he's still gonna struggle in the RZ. It's his game. He's unique.

But why spend money on the O with Ben? I think we really need to load up on D somehow. But of course we first have to find the talent on that side of the ball.

[hawaiiansteel]

Steelers PATs: Did Ben need to apologize?

JANUARY 4, 2015
DEJAN KOVACEVIC, DK ON PITTSBURGH SPORTS

• Ben Roethlisberger apologized to pretty much everyone who’s ever known a 412 or 724 area code Saturday night, including “the fans, my teammates, the organization, the Rooneys and the coaches.” And his explanation for that was that he “didn’t play well enough to win.”

The latter is indisputable, obviously, as is any assessment that Ben wasn’t at his best.

But was he that bad?

Depends on how one would like to dole out the blame, I suppose.

By the numbers: Roethlisberger completed 31 of 45 passes for 334 yards, one touchdown and two interceptions. Those last two stand out glaringly. He was 5 of 14 for 60 yards when under pressure, which isn’t bad either in the volume of pressures or the performance when it came. He wasn’t hit once as he threw. I’ll use that information to at least downplay the impact of the offensive line not playing well against the Ravens’ formidable front seven. Roethlisberger did get sacked five times, but at least two of those were squarely on him, as he never threw the ball away.

Switching over to the receivers, including running backs: Of the 45 times they were targeted, they caught 33 passes with two drops, one each by Heath Miller and Ben Tate. They weren’t effective at all in getting yards after the catch with 126 — a stunningly low 26 for Antonio Brown against all his double-teams — or in terms of blocking for the backs or for themselves on the receiver screens. Overall, it wasn’t the worst showing, but it was far from the best.

So what’s left?

I’ll point to two facets:

1. The return of the sideways nonsense.

Maybe Todd Haley’s game plan was built on the fear of not having Le’Veon Bell, maybe it was on the expected rain that never materialized, maybe both. Whatever the case, Roethlisberger threw eight passes behind the line of scrimmage, and those plays accounted for a total of 33 yards. Expanding the field slightly, Roethlisberger threw 19 passes that traveled 0-10 yards from the line of scrimmage, and those accounted for a total of 113 yards. In this range, nine passes went sharply left or right rather than down the middle.

This, my friends, is living in your fears. It’s not fiction. It’s not narrative. It’s not Haley-bashing. It’s fact. The Steelers’ offense reverted to its early-season look without Bell.

On passes that traveled more than 10 yards in the air — actually downfield — Roethlisberger was 9 of 15 for 185 yards. But attempting only 15 of those in 51 passing plays is the dagger. And it’s a self-inflicted wound, at that.

For comparison’s sake, 13 of Flacco’s 27 passes — roughly half — traveled 10 or more yards and accounted for 146 yards. He threw only two passes behind the line of scrimmage. And he was pressured on 15 of those 27 plays, so save the argument that he had more time.

2. Red-zone failure.

The tone was set the first time the Steelers touched the Baltimore 20, that on their second drive of the opening quarter: Pass short right to Josh Harris for no gain, Dri Archer run up the middle for minus-1 yards and a 6-yard loss when Roethlisberger was brought down by Elvis Dumervil. Sideways, stupid and a sack.

On 11 total red-zone plays from scrimmage, Roethlisberger threw a pass longer than 5 yards exactly twice. One was the 6-yard touchdown to Martavis Bryant, the other the late interception.

And never mind the red zone. Anywhere on the Baltimore side of the 50, the Steelers ran 29 offensive plays, and Brown was targeted only eight of those. Dri Archer was targeted on four.

Because “we took what they were giving us,” to quote Tomlin from a few weeks back?

Yes, that and living in your fears.

http://dkonpittsburghsports.com/2015/01/04/steelers-pats-ben-need-apologize/

[feltdizz]

What's sad is people still buy this garbage.

And ANY TIME anyone even says it? They are insulting Ben and his career.

it's a team sport dude...

until Ben wins a few playoff games with bad defenses we have to go with what we have seen...

and without a great D this team ain't that good in crunch time.

[NJ-STEELER]

I agree. And it makes me wonder how much money we can afford to pay Ben. I also agree with Chadman in that we need a running game to help Ben in the RZ.

So where do we spend our cap dollars? Perhaps we need to become more dominant on the Oline. Perhaps we need to invest in another TE to help. Perhaps we need a big possession WR.

And maybe our dollars need to go more toward our D to keep other teams from scoring.

Here's a question - How far can Ben take us without an elite D? We're going to be putting more money into our O to give Ben more weapons, but does that really help us win SuperBowls? I think Ben can be just as effective with or without great weapons. Superior weapons don't seem to add that much in terms of creating a ton more points.

I still think our SuperBowl formula is Ben + Defense = SuperBowls. Unless we find guys the calibre of James and Troy in their prime on D, I'm not sure we're on the path to getting back to winning a SuperBowl for the rest of Ben's career. Maybe I'm a pessimist, but I'm having a hard time seeing the path to success here given our trajectory and the players we currently have.

I cant agree with that at all

IIRC the points per game when bryant was inserted into the line up went from somewhere in the teens (16 ish) to 31 PPG.

[feltdizz]

So when the Steelers defense gave up 17 points on their first three possessions of the Cincy game in January 2006 that was good defense?

So when the Steelers defense gave up 377 yards and three TD's to Kurt Warner, blowing a 20-7 4th quarter lead in SB XLIII that was good defense too?

Noted.

Is Ben good when he has a 3 INT game?

Good doesn't = perfect...


A good D will still give up points or lose a game or 2.

[BURGH86STEEL]

I agree. And it makes me wonder how much money we can afford to pay Ben. I also agree with Chadman in that we need a running game to help Ben in the RZ.

So where do we spend our cap dollars? Perhaps we need to become more dominant on the Oline. Perhaps we need to invest in another TE to help. Perhaps we need a big possession WR.

And maybe our dollars need to go more toward our D to keep other teams from scoring.

Here's a question - How far can Ben take us without an elite D? We're going to be putting more money into our O to give Ben more weapons, but does that really help us win SuperBowls? I think Ben can be just as effective with or without great weapons. Superior weapons don't seem to add that much in terms of creating a ton more points.

I still think our SuperBowl formula is Ben + Defense = SuperBowls. Unless we find guys the calibre of James and Troy in their prime on D, I'm not sure we're on the path to getting back to winning a SuperBowl for the rest of Ben's career. Maybe I'm a pessimist, but I'm having a hard time seeing the path to success here given our trajectory and the players we currently have.
Because Ben plays QB and he's had a lot of success he's going to be paid a lot of money. The key questions are how much guaranteed money does Ben want, how much guaranteed money does the organization want to offer, and the length of the contract.

The Steelers are probably 3 or 4 players away from having a defense they would like. Obtaining those players will take some luck, good planning & drafting, and timing(the prospects coming out of college combined with opportunity to draft those players) . Timing might be the most important factor.

We'll see what they can do to add to some of the pieces they have on defense.

[NorthCoast]

In the past 4 years, when he's tossed > 40 times, we have been behind and our D has stunk, and our overall win percentage is worse than any of the other teams you mention.


So what you are saying is Roethlisberger can't bring the team from behind by passing to a victory and he needs a good defense to secure the win?

Noted.

[7upnext]

Ben carried this team all season and had the #2 offense in the league. Brees has been leading his team to losing records for the last few years. Is he criticized the same way? He had shutdown Keenan Lewis on his team too.

He played a bad game. When he plays a bad game we lose. That means he carries the team. He's been fantastic for the most part this season and he looks like he's improved his play from previous seasons.

that's rich. Lewis a shutdown corner? He is average at best. That was a good one though..thanks

[7upnext]

They've been drafting the talent. It's just that DL system requires years to master. Since the system doesn't work anymore and he should be going, I think you'll see just how good our young players are starting next season. One solid draft with either a shutdown corner, safety or both and we will be right back in the mix imho

[7 UP]

that's rich. Lewis a shutdown corner? He is average at best. That was a good one though..thanks

Ill give Lewis above average status. But I do get tired of the Keenan Lewis Cortez Allen comparisons. Ill admit the Steelers kept the wrong guy. But if being better than Cortez Allen is your critera for being a shutdown corner, than I guess Bryce McCain and Antwon Blake are shutdown corners too.

[feltdizz]

Ill give Lewis above average status. But I do get tired of the Keenan Lewis Cortez Allen comparisons. Ill admit the Steelers kept the wrong guy. But if being better than Cortez Allen is your critera for being a shutdown corner, than I guess Bryce McCain and Antwon Blake are shutdown corners too.

You can't reach that far dude... lol.

[papillon]

Ill give Lewis above average status. But I do get tired of the Keenan Lewis Cortez Allen comparisons. Ill admit the Steelers kept the wrong guy. But if being better than Cortez Allen is your critera for being a shutdown corner, than I guess Bryce McCain and Antwon Blake are shutdown corners too.

McCain or Blake is going to be the next Ike Taylor, but will be able to catch the football.

Pappy

[hawaiiansteel]

Ben’s playoff record not so good

It’s easy to remember Roethlisberger’s coming-out party as a quarterback in the three games leading up to Super Bowl XL. It’s easy to remember the brilliant last-second touchdown drive he led, which was the difference in the Steelers beating Arizona in Super Bowl XLIII. Those games and plenty of regular-season heroics have established Roethlisberger.

But what about those other playoff games? He’s played in 15 games, not four.

In the 2005 playoff games against Cincinnati, Indianapolis and Denver and in the Super Bowl against Arizona, Roethlisberger completed 68.2 percent of his passes for an average of 9.2 yards per attempt. He threw eight touchdowns and two interceptions and had a passer rating of 115.5.

In his other 11 games, he completed 59.4 percent of his passes for an average of 7.2 yards per try. He threw 12 touchdowns and 17 interceptions and had a passer rating of 73.9....

Roethlisberger has not had a standout postseason game since the first game of the 2010 playoffs, when the Steelers beat Baltimore, 34-21. In four subsequent games, one of them being the Super Bowl, he has thrown for two touchdowns and seven interceptions and has a passer rating in the 70s.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/s...s/201501080237