Is tomlin and company vindicated?

[feltdizz]

I think so...

I can admit I was on the "DL needs to retire" train and I was wrong.

This team looks like it could make a run if Bell can go. I even think we could win next week with Josh Harris.

[Ghost]

I'd say yes but then that weak-a$$, ridiculous, moronic, everyone-in-the-entire-world-saw-it-coming, fake punt play keeps replaying in my mind...

[7 UP]

No. The Steelers as a team are vindicated.

Tomlins poorly designed, poorly executed, and poorly timed, fake punt very nearly cost us this game. I remain firmly on the fence with Tomlin.

[7 UP]

I'd say yes but then that weak-a$$, ridiculous, moronic, everyone-in-the-entire-world-saw-it-coming, fake punt play keeps replaying in my mind...

Who sends a man in motion on a fake punt? Are you kidding me? Even my wife saw it coming. I dont hate the call, as much as I hate the play. If you are not going to go for the element of surprise then just leave Ben out there and go for it. Steelers D bailed Tomlin out big time.

[RobinCole]

In just about every game in which the margin of victory is two TDs or less, one can say that the head coach was "bailed out" by some particular play, or player or unit. Well, the defense is part of the team. Sometimes the offense has bailed out the defense.

A common criterion for evaluating a coach is: Does his team improve as the season plays out? Well, this one certainly did. After six games, very few thought we would go 11-5 and win the North. Now someone says, "oh, that was the team vindicating itself". So the coaching staff had nothing to do with it? Hilarious. If we had gone 5-11 you bet the coach(es) would be getting the blame.

[NorthCoast]

No. The Steelers as a team are vindicated.

Tomlins poorly designed, poorly executed, and poorly timed, fake punt very nearly cost us this game. I remain firmly on the fence with Tomlin.

Cost the Steelers the game??, a little dramatic. Maybe made it more interesting.

I agree with other posters that commented on the impatience of some fans. A few losses and it's immediately the sky is falling. I happened to have been and continue to be a DL supporter. The guy has forgotten more about football than most coaches even know. It was only a matter of transitioning the new talent onto the field, and that simply takes time.
It's also as much about developing the new leadership on defense after the loss of the old guard. That takes time as well.

[7 UP]

"oh, that was the team vindicating itself". So the coaching staff had nothing to do with it? Hilarious. If we had gone 5-11 you bet the coach(es) would be getting the blame.

Thats not what I said. I said the Steelers as a team vindicated themselves. By the Steelers I mean, players, coaches front office, ownership.

Its the job of a head coach to make decisions that put his team in the best position to win. The OP asked if Tomlin is vindicated. To me no. He is not. Tomlin personally is not, because he almost cost us this game by making a poor decision at a crucial time in the game.

[phillyesq]

The team got hot at the right time, and Tomlin certainly deserves some of the credit for that.

Just as Tomlin deserves a measure of credit for the success, he also owns a measure of blame for the team's performance early in the season. If the Steelers won one of those early games that they threw away - particularly the Jets game, which was a conference game, they would have had a shot at a first round bye. Which would look awfully good with a gimpy Bell.

[RobinCole]

OK, the coach deserves some of the credit or some of the blame, depending on the outcome.

"There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes.

[feltdizz]

The team got hot at the right time, and Tomlin certainly deserves some of the credit for that.

Just as Tomlin deserves a measure of credit for the success, he also owns a measure of blame for the team's performance early in the season. If the Steelers won one of those early games that they threw away - particularly the Jets game, which was a conference game, they would have had a shot at a first round bye. Which would look awfully good with a gimpy Bell.

We lost some of those early games because Ike and Troy were on the field.

It would be nice if we only lost the games we were supposed to lose but it doesn't work that way.

A first round bye would be awesome but honestly, how many of us expected a first round bye with this team?

[feltdizz]

No. The Steelers as a team are vindicated.

Tomlins poorly designed, poorly executed, and poorly timed, fake punt very nearly cost us this game. I remain firmly on the fence with Tomlin.

It was a horrible call but it shouldn't define our season or his coaching job this year.

..and you aren't on the fence. LOL.

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

Think of the guy who has been dumped, can't accept it, and does a billion stupid things thinking she might change her mind, trying to get her back. Finally, she moves out of town, he realizes it's over, and he becomes a rational guy again, no more Mr. Stupid.

DL: Ike and Troy were on the roster and healthy ... maybe one part of him knew they were just walking toast and shouldn't see the field, but his heart just couldn't let go. Then finally they get injured, they're not part of the equation, and he's finally free to use his DC skills again, in only 3-4 games he magically turns castoffs and retreads into the AFC North Championship Defense we see before us.

But wait! What happens when the girl moves back to town? These guys might be "healthy" next week, or the week after. Will DL play them, or stick with the guys that are getting it done?

[papillon]

I don't really think the coaching staff needed any vindication at all, over the past three years they have overhauled this team and kept them competitive. Now, as fans, we hate 8-8, but in both seasons a break here or there and at least one of those seasons they are in the playoffs. This year I think we are seeing the future and what it will look like without Ike, Da Beard, JH, and Troy, the transformation is complete, now comes the maturing, learning and beginning their own legacy of Steeler football. It's frustrating to watch this team move from the vets to the new guys, because it appeared that they just weren't ready for prime time, but right now you have to think that all indicators are pointing up regardless of what happens in the next week or maybe more.

Tuitt looks like he is going to be a quick study
Heyward is a beast
McClendon is doing a good impersonation of Casey
Worilds played well, not 10 million dollars well, but if he's reasonable this off season he may still be a Steeler
Timmons is a beast
Spence/Williams/Shazier are going to battle it out for the other ILB job, that can't be a bad thing
Moats/Jones (assuming JH doesn't want to go through camp and 16 games) is going to be the biggest question mark, I believe Jones will become what the Steelers expect once his wrist is 100%
Gay/McCain/Blake, what can you say, they are improving with every snap
Mitchell and Allen, see above

This version of the Steeler defense is on the uptick and I see no reason to believe it won't continue, they are playing inspired football right now, they expect to win and that's half the battle.

Pappy

[phillyesq]

We lost some of those early games because Ike and Troy were on the field.

It would be nice if we only lost the games we were supposed to lose but it doesn't work that way.

A first round bye would be awesome but honestly, how many of us expected a first round bye with this team?

Ike didn't play against the Jets or Bucs. Troy was also out for the Jets game, and he certainly wasn't the deciding factor against the Bucs.

The Steelers certainly won games that were far from gimmes - the Colts game is a great example - and Tomlin should share in the credit for that. But he should also share in the blame for the team failing to take care of business against the league's bottom feeders.

[squidkid]

someone would have to show me what tomlin did different during the end of the season that he didnt do at the beginning

[Discipline of Steel]

Think of the guy who has been dumped, can't accept it, and does a billion stupid things thinking she might change her mind, trying to get her back. Finally, she moves out of town, he realizes it's over, and he becomes a rational guy again, no more Mr. Stupid.

DL: Ike and Troy were on the roster and healthy ... maybe one part of him knew they were just walking toast and shouldn't see the field, but his heart just couldn't let go. Then finally they get injured, they're not part of the equation, and he's finally free to use his DC skills again, in only 3-4 games he magically turns castoffs and retreads into the AFC North Championship Defense we see before us.

But wait! What happens when the girl moves back to town? These guys might be "healthy" next week, or the week after. Will DL play them, or stick with the guys that are getting it done?

I think Troy and Ike are only on the injury list to save themselves the embarrassment of being benched.

[feltdizz]

Ike didn't play against the Jets or Bucs. Troy was also out for the Jets game, and he certainly wasn't the deciding factor against the Bucs.

The Steelers certainly won games that were far from gimmes - the Colts game is a great example - and Tomlin should share in the credit for that. But he should also share in the blame for the team failing to take care of business against the league's bottom feeders.

Fair enough, probably wasnt fair of me to blame them for all out losses but we are clearly playing better without them right now.

Tomlin deserves blame in all our losses.... thankfully we win more than we lose.

[feltdizz]

I don't really think the coaching staff needed any vindication at all, over the past three years they have overhauled this team and kept them competitive. Now, as fans, we hate 8-8, but in both seasons a break here or there and at least one of those seasons they are in the playoffs. This year I think we are seeing the future and what it will look like without Ike, Da Beard, JH, and Troy, the transformation is complete, now comes the maturing, learning and beginning their own legacy of Steeler football. It's frustrating to watch this team move from the vets to the new guys, because it appeared that they just weren't ready for prime time, but right now you have to think that all indicators are pointing up regardless of what happens in the next week or maybe more.

Tuitt looks like he is going to be a quick study
Heyward is a beast
McClendon is doing a good impersonation of Casey
Worilds played well, not 10 million dollars well, but if he's reasonable this off season he may still be a Steeler
Timmons is a beast
Spence/Williams/Shazier are going to battle it out for the other ILB job, that can't be a bad thing
Moats/Jones (assuming JH doesn't want to go through camp and 16 games) is going to be the biggest question mark, I believe Jones will become what the Steelers expect once his wrist is 100%
Gay/McCain/Blake, what can you say, they are improving with every snap
Mitchell and Allen, see above

This version of the Steeler defense is on the uptick and I see no reason to believe it won't continue, they are playing inspired football right now, they expect to win and that's half the battle.

Pappy

True pappy... but some people think its unacceptable to wver have a down year. A lot of people wanted Tomlin, DL(this was me) and Colbert to pay for putting this team together.

[7 UP]

It was a horrible call but it shouldn't define our season or his coaching job this year.

..and you aren't on the fence. LOL.

Thats the thing. I am on the fence. I know it seems like I do a lot of Tomlin bashing. But in all honesty I like him as a coach. What I dont like is some bad decision making at key times this year, that has cost us some games IMO. The fake punt is an example of that.

[flippy]

A lot of people wanted Tomlin, DL(this was me) and Colbert to pay for putting this team together.

Sure Tomlin deserves credit for getting us into the postseason and for the improved play by the team, but I think there is some accountability for the quality of the roster. We haven't had the best track record since Tomlin's been coach in terms of drafting and building the team. Who is accountable for the roster? Tomlin? Colbert?

I don't think any of us can know for sure. The thing we do know is Cowher/Colbert seemed to do better with their first round draft picks. Tomlin/Colbert have gotten some gems in later rounds in guys like Bell and Brown. But they also seem to reach on athleticism with their first rounders and I think it has hurt the quality of the roster.

We also know that Tomlin does well with a quality roster. Despite his occasional missteps, Tomlin's a proven good coach. And quite possibly, Tomlin and Colbert are both fine in their respective roles. But they don't seem to work together so well when it comes to building the roster. And that's an area where we can improve imho.

Why in message board world does everything have to be cut and dry. Isn't it possible Tomlin is good at some things and can improve in other areas? Same for Colbert and Lebeau. Same for everyone else.

I think the detractors are fair in their questions about Tomlin. We all just want the team to get better. I think the Tomlin fans want the same thing for the team. But these discussions always seem to go to the extreme of either our coach walks on water or he's worthless. But the reality is always somewhere in the middle. And while extreme positions seem to get people to respond, they often miss the reality on both sides of the fence.

Either way, I say he needs a SuperBowl victory to be truly vindicated. That's about the only thing that I think everyone would agree on ;)

[Steelerphile]

I've felt like Tomlin is a top 5 coach for years. I think the team needed to make the playoffs this year, just to burnish his image as a very good coach. One day, he may be considered a legendary coach. I thought the people who credited Cowher's players with the successes of the team, made no sense a long time ago. But now, there is no way that can fly. I don't think the Steelers really have overall more talent than a lot of teams, and a good head coach is needed to give them the little extra that is often the difference in winning and losing.
I don't think the Steelers could have just hired anybody and gotten the same results, like people suggest, but that is unprovable.

The team is not going to win every game or make every play, it's not possible. So, those who want to focus on the negative will always have something to latch onto. But what is true is that the team starts off trying to find itself and by the end of the year, they look very capable of winning the championship. Last year and this year, the same thing. It is not a coincidence. Tomlin teams play with passion. He is detailed oriented and gradually identifies the strengths and weaknesses of the team and works to eliminate the soft places and enhance the strengths. I think he is getting better every year. Just like most people who are trying, get better at their jobs every year.

Players and coaches respect him greatly. Players speak highly of him and work their tail off to play for him. There are three former head coaches in the NFL who happily work for him. Would that happen if he didn't have a lot of respect in the coaching fraternity? Nope.

So, I think Steeler Nation should be happy they have a good coach and that there is stability there, but I think there will always be people who will be against him for their own reasons.

[papillon]

I've felt like Tomlin is a top 5 coach for years. I think the team needed to make the playoffs this year, just to burnish his image as a very good coach. One day, he may be considered a legendary coach. I thought the people who credited Cowher's players with the successes of the team, made no sense a long time ago. But now, there is no way that can fly. I don't think the Steelers really have overall more talent than a lot of teams, and a good head coach is needed to give them the little extra that is often the difference in winning and losing.
I don't think the Steelers could have just hired anybody and gotten the same results, like people suggest, but that is unprovable.

The team is not going to win every game or make every play, it's not possible. So, those who want to focus on the negative will always have something to latch onto. But what is true is that the team starts off trying to find itself and by the end of the year, they look very capable of winning the championship. Last year and this year, the same thing. It is not a coincidence. Tomlin teams play with passion. He is detailed oriented and gradually identifies the strengths and weaknesses of the team and works to eliminate the soft places and enhance the strengths. I think he is getting better every year. Just like most people who are trying, get better at their jobs every year.

Players and coaches respect him greatly. Players speak highly of him and work their tail off to play for him. There are three former head coaches in the NFL who happily work for him. Would that happen if he didn't have a lot of respect in the coaching fraternity? Nope.

So, I think Steeler Nation should be happy they have a good coach and that there is stability there, but I think there will always be people who will be against him for their own reasons.

This is incredibly cogent thinking right here. :Bow:Bow

Pappy

[feltdizz]

Thats the thing. I am on the fence. I know it seems like I do a lot of Tomlin bashing. But in all honesty I like him as a coach. What I dont like is some bad decision making at key times this year, that has cost us some games IMO. The fake punt is an example of that.

The fake punt didn't cost us the game.

Can you please list a few examples where his decisions cost us some games?

I agree the call was bad and his clock management isnt the best... but usually when these things are the focus of an argument its after a W.

[Oviedo]

I can admit I was on the "DL needs to retire" train and I was wrong.



We'll see now that we have to beat play off caliber teams.

[Eddie Spaghetti]

We just beat a playoff team

[feltdizz]

Sure Tomlin deserves credit for getting us into the postseason and for the improved play by the team, but I think there is some accountability for the quality of the roster. We haven't had the best track record since Tomlin's been coach in terms of drafting and building the team. Who is accountable for the roster? Tomlin? Colbert?

I don't think any of us can know for sure. The thing we do know is Cowher/Colbert seemed to do better with their first round draft picks. Tomlin/Colbert have gotten some gems in later rounds in guys like Bell and Brown. But they also seem to reach on athleticism with their first rounders and I think it has hurt the quality of the roster.

We also know that Tomlin does well with a quality roster. Despite his occasional missteps, Tomlin's a proven good coach. And quite possibly, Tomlin and Colbert are both fine in their respective roles. But they don't seem to work together so well when it comes to building the roster. And that's an area where we can improve imho.

Why in message board world does everything have to be cut and dry. Isn't it possible Tomlin is good at some things and can improve in other areas? Same for Colbert and Lebeau. Same for everyone else.

I think the detractors are fair in their questions about Tomlin. We all just want the team to get better. I think the Tomlin fans want the same thing for the team. But these discussions always seem to go to the extreme of either our coach walks on water or he's worthless. But the reality is always somewhere in the middle. And while extreme positions seem to get people to respond, they often miss the reality on both sides of the fence.

Either way, I say he needs a SuperBowl victory to be truly vindicated. That's about the only thing that I think everyone would agree on ;)

The majority of the time when we have these discussions people talk as though there are other coaches available who could do a better job with the same roster.

The reason these post sound like they are all or nothing is because there are people on here who think he should be on the hot seat or fired.

When discussing his flaws there really isn't a good argument for being on the fence or waiting to see if Tomlin should remain our HC. There are only 2 or 3 coaches in the NFL with a better resume and winning percentage. How can anyone wait and see if Tomlin has what it takes moving forward after 8 years?

I understand criticising his in game decisions, depth chart, clock management or a bad challenge... but how can anyone have a wait ad see approach after 8 years and watching this team reload and capture a #3 seed?

[feltdizz]

We'll see now that we have to beat play off caliber teams.

We beat Cincinnati twice, people were worried about Green and we shut him down last night. Last week we kept the best RZ offense out of the endzone and crushed Alex Smiths spleen.

We also beat down the Texans, Ravens and Colts...

sometimes, you have to admit when you are wrong Ovi.

I know its hard to do but you just made an incredibly bad post. LOL...

If and when we beat the Ravens you will say "but we will see if they beat Denver" and so on and so forth. People who have stipulations before giving credit ALWAYS change the criteria after the fact.

[feltdizz]

We just beat a playoff team

what makes it worse is he said playoff "caliber" teams... we never had a problem beating those teams, its the non playoff caliber teams that we struggled to beat this year.

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

We just beat a playoff team

Thank you.

[7 UP]

The fake punt didn't cost us the game.

Can you please list a few examples where his decisions cost us some games?

I agree the call was bad and his clock management isnt the best... but usually when these things are the focus of an argument its after a W.

Im not going to list anymore examples of my Tomlin complaints. Bottom line is we just made the playoffs for the first time in 3 seasons. I would much rather enjoy the playoffs, than beat a dead horse. So Im going to try and stay positive until the offseason.

[papillon]

We just beat a playoff team

Twice, Baltimore once, Carolina and Indianapolis and two teams that were in the hunt until week 17, that's beating playoff teams. Eddie, some guys just won't be happy until DL is gone regardless of the success incurred along thew way.

Oh and the big complaint about DL never making adjustments was not only put to bed, but shown to be the exact opposite. Jeremy Hill was asked by Collinsworth prior to the game why its difficult to play against the Steelers and he responded because they (the Steelers) make changes from series to series to take away things that were working on a previous series. Which I just find infinitely amusing.

Pappy

[Flasteel]

I definitely think there was a point earlier in the season where this team was underperforming in all facets. On the heels of 2 8-8 seasons and a talent-laden roster, it was easy and appropriate to lay blame at the feet of the head coach. He needed to right this ship in order to avoid the hot seat and to his credit (and the team's), he did it.

Had this thing not got turned around - say we went the way the Browns did down the stretch - Tomlin rightfully should have been put on notice. I've always liked Tomlin and thought he was a good coach. However, 3 straight years of mediocrity and no playoffs is simply unacceptable...especially with a franchise quarterback. Anyone who thinks otherwise should closely examine their standards.

The bottom line is that he has steered this team back to relevance and has a chance in front of him to achieve greatness. We as fans, could not ask for anything more at this point.

Tomlin has been vindicated. And in my opinion, he needed it. All of the coaches did and they should all be welcomed back next year.

[Slapstick]

No.

Tomlin did not require vindication.

[papillon]

I definitely think there was a point earlier in the season where this team was underperforming in all facets. On the heels of 2 8-8 seasons and a talent-laden roster, it was easy and appropriate to lay blame at the feet of the head coach. He needed to right this ship in order to avoid the hot seat and to his credit (and the team's), he did it.

Had this thing not got turned around - say we went the way the Browns did down the stretch - Tomlin rightfully should have been put on notice. I've always liked Tomlin and thought he was a good coach. However, 3 straight years of mediocrity and no playoffs is simply unacceptable...especially with a franchise quarterback. Anyone who thinks otherwise should closely examine their standards.

The bottom line is that he has steered this team back to relevance and has a chance in front of him to achieve greatness. We as fans, could not ask for anything more at this point.

Tomlin has been vindicated. And in my opinion, he needed it. All of the coaches did and they should all be welcomed back next year.

I don't think this version of the Steelers is talent laden, they are potential laden, bit not necessarily talent laden yet, at least on defense. The offense is talent laden and is loaded with guys that are willing to put the work in to get better, led by Brown, Ben and Bell.

Pappy

[Sugar]

No.

Tomlin did not require vindication.

This has been my thinking reading over this entire thread. He hasn't been vindicated because he didn't need to be in the first place.

[bostonsteeler]

what makes it worse is he said playoff "caliber" teams... we never had a problem beating those teams, its the non playoff caliber teams that we struggled to beat this year.

Argh! Don't remind me. We had horrible issues with the *weak* teams early on.

I'm still on the fence with DL. One swallow doesn't a summer make. If he brings Ike / Troy back in for the playoffs, I'll be p.o.ed as ever.
Im also unhappy with Tomlin for using the first four or so games of the actual season as part of his training camp, and not having them ready on day one. His response to the early setbacks was outstanding, and the manner in which they fixed the penalties (bringing refs in to practice) was brilliant. The team loves him, and he's undoubtedly a top-5 coach. But in two of the past three years, he only got there after the first quarter of the season.

Just to put things in perspective.

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

Argh! Don't remind me. We had horrible issues with the *weak* teams early on.

I'm still on the fence with DL. One swallow doesn't a summer make. If he brings Ike / Troy back in for the playoffs, I'll be p.o.ed as ever.
Im also unhappy with Tomlin for using the first four or so games of the actual season as part of his training camp, and not having them ready on day one. His response to the early setbacks was outstanding, and the manner in which they fixed the penalties (bringing refs in to practice) was brilliant. The team loves him, and he's undoubtedly a top-5 coach. But in two of the past three years, he only got there after the first quarter of the season.

Just to put things in perspective.

If he brings them back, my head will explode, and if we lose because of it (it would be very apparent if that were the case) then I would also blame Tomlin for not laying down the law and saying, "With all respect, D@ck, I have to say 'No' here ...". And I can see thinking the owners would be very justified in wanting some of their coaching salary $$ back.

Please don't suit them up, please!

[Flasteel]

While you can make an argument that vindication is in the eye of the beholder, you can't argue that Tomlin, LeBeau, and Haley were not all under fire earlier this year...by a great many people. Getting us to the point where we are now vindicates them from that widespread criticism. At least it should for any rational minded person. Whether that blame was deserved or not, it was there. It was everywhere.

They may not need to be vindicated from your perspective, but regardless...they should now stand vindicated from the masses.

At least in my opinion. :tt2

[BradshawsHairdresser]

I was one who was hard on Tomlin earlier in the season. The team was showing up for games undisciplined, unfocused, and unprepared. And I still feel he bears some major responsibility for that.

However, things got turned around! If I'm going to give him blame for the first part of Steelers' season, I have to give him due credit for his part in the turnaround. I still think his clock management and some of his in-game decisions are suspect, but he kept this team together, and they were ready to play when it mattered down the stretch. Good for him.

If he can lead this team to a Lombardi, I promise not to complain about him anymore.

Until next season. :D

[hawaiiansteel]

Alex Kozora @Alex_Kozora -

The Steelers in the second half of the season, the last two years.

12-4. 6-2 both times.

https://twitter.com/Alex_Kozora

[bostonsteeler]

Alex Kozora @Alex_Kozora -

The Steelers in the second half of the season, the last two years.

12-4. 6-2 both times.

https://twitter.com/Alex_Kozora

Now, if we could only play the second halves, we would be fine :-)

This year it was 8-2. So they only waited 6 games to turn the jets on. Perhaps next year they'll do it after 4. Hopefully we're 2-2 or better at that point.

[Oviedo]

Tomlin has never needed vindicated in the eyes of those who matter and make the decisions. The rest is just background noise.

[Chucktownsteeler]

Before we canonize and vindicate Tomlin let's remind ourselves(at least W-L percentage wise) the Steelers had one of the easiest, if not the easiest schedule in the NFL in 2014. He also lost to the:

Browns
Jets
Saints
Buccaneers

He came within a whisker of squandering a 27-3 half-time lead in week 1 ad had Bryant rot on the bench for the first 6 weeks of the season behind Justin Brown. Tuitt rotted behind Cam Thomas. makes you wonder what players like Sharmarko Thomas could do if the opportunity was allotted unto the.

[fezziwig]

Before we canonize and vindicate Tomlin let's remind ourselves(at least W-L percentage wise) the Steelers had one of the easiest, if not the easiest schedule in the NFL in 2014. He also lost to the:

Browns
Jets
Saints
Buccaneers

He came within a whisker of squandering a 27-3 half-time lead in week 1 ad had Bryant rot on the bench for the first 6 weeks of the season behind Justin Brown. Tuitt rotted behind Cam Thomas. makes you wonder what players like Sharmarko Thomas could do if the opportunity was allotted unto the.

I thought he leaped before he looked with releasing Blount.

[Slapstick]

Letting Blount get away with being a douchebag would have been detrimental to the team...

After releasing Blount, the Steelers went 4-1...

[papillon]

Letting Blount get away with being a douchebag would have been detrimental to the team...

After releasing Blount, the Steelers went 4-1...

The Patriots are 3-2 over that time frame and their offensive production has been on the decline (http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/new_england_patriots/patriots_report_card/2014/12/patriots_report_card_grades_1 from the Boston Herald), down to about 22 points per game.

Pappy

[phillyesq]

Tomlin has never needed vindicated in the eyes of those who matter and make the decisions. The rest is just background noise.

I love this post coming from you, since the same holds true for Lebeau.

[Oviedo]

I love this post coming from you, since the same holds true for Lebeau.
The difference is I know anything I write here is meaningless in the scale of reality. I also know that my criticisms of LeBeau and his 3-4 years of poor defensive product on the field are far more justified in facts than criticism of Tomlin who is one of the winningest coaches in the NFL over his tenure. However, as LeBeau's retained counsel and apologist I expected that you would jump on that post:D

[feltdizz]

Before we canonize and vindicate Tomlin let's remind ourselves(at least W-L percentage wise) the Steelers had one of the easiest, if not the easiest schedule in the NFL in 2014. He also lost to the:

Browns
Jets
Saints
Buccaneers

He came within a whisker of squandering a 27-3 half-time lead in week 1 ad had Bryant rot on the bench for the first 6 weeks of the season behind Justin Brown. Tuitt rotted behind Cam Thomas. makes you wonder what players like Sharmarko Thomas could do if the opportunity was allotted unto the.

Did Tuitt and Bryant really rot in the bench?

[Sword]

I think we can make a run and we can do it without bell if we have to.
We cannot afford stupid plays like the fake punt.
I don't mind a fake or going for it it was the type of play that sucked based on their defense...

for the most part we just need Ben, Brown, miller, offensive line and Defense to keep playing like they have the last two games...

[Chucktownsteeler]

Did Tuitt and Bryant really rot in the bench?

Yes, for the first 6-weeks of the season.

[Chucktownsteeler]

I think we can make a run and we can do it without bell if we have to.
We cannot afford stupid plays like the fake punt.
I don't mind a fake or going for it it was the type of play that sucked based on their defense...

for the most part we just need Ben, Brown, miller, offensive line and Defense to keep playing like they have the last two games...

Actually I think we can make a decent run into the playoffs. My only downside is playing the Ravens first. I have no doubt we will completely destroy them, but it will be a very physical game.

[papillon]

The difference is I know anything I write here is meaningless in the scale of reality. I also know that my criticisms of LeBeau and his 3-4 years of poor defensive product on the field are far more justified in facts than criticism of Tomlin who is one of the winningest coaches in the NFL over his tenure. However, as LeBeau's retained counsel and apologist I expected that you would jump on that post:D

The issue is not criticizing Lebeau for the past 3 years, but failing at every turn to give him any credit for the past and this year. Collinsworth interviewed Jeremy Hill and Hill is telling you that DL not only makes changes, but makes them from series to series to try and stop the bleeding if the defense is getting gashed. We've heard over and over Ad Nauseum that DL makes no changes, zero, zip, nada and now we're finding that he probably makes more than most coaches. They may or may not work, but the reality is that not only has the game not passed him by, but he might be out in front of it making changes on the fly during a game.

Pappy

[feltdizz]

Yes, for the first 6-weeks of the season.

Or maybe Tuitt didnt know his assignments and Bryant was behind due to injuries in camp?

I thought the same thing with both but we have no idea if they were ready. One could argue that we were smart for waiting to insert them and this is why both are playing at a high level.

Its a long season and a lot of rookies hit that wall around the 12th week... maybe we timed it perfectly.

[phillyesq]

The difference is I know anything I write here is meaningless in the scale of reality. I also know that my criticisms of LeBeau and his 3-4 years of poor defensive product on the field are far more justified in facts than criticism of Tomlin who is one of the winningest coaches in the NFL over his tenure. However, as LeBeau's retained counsel and apologist I expected that you would jump on that post:D

That line gave me a good chuckle. Cheers, Ovi, and Happy New Year. :Cheers

[Chucktownsteeler]

Or maybe Tuitt didnt know his assignments and Bryant was behind due to injuries in camp?

I thought the same thing with both but we have no idea if they were ready. One could argue that we were smart for waiting to insert them and this is why both are playing at a high level.

Its a long season and a lot of rookies hit that wall around the 12th week... maybe we timed it perfectly.


I can agree with Tuiit behind Kiesel, to a point. But putting Bryant behind Justin Brown to me makes no sense. Neither had ever started in the NFL before and I am not sure Brown had played a down in the NFL.

There comes a point when you have to look to the future and luckily Tuitt and Bryant made the most from their respective opportunities.

[Oviedo]

That line gave me a good chuckle. Cheers, Ovi, and Happy New Year. :Cheers
Ditto. Let's continue to play in 2015:tt2:Cheers

[phillyesq]

Or maybe Tuitt didnt know his assignments and Bryant was behind due to injuries in camp?

I thought the same thing with both but we have no idea if they were ready. One could argue that we were smart for waiting to insert them and this is why both are playing at a high level.

Its a long season and a lot of rookies hit that wall around the 12th week... maybe we timed it perfectly.

That's exactly the case. There were a lot of articles mid-season about how the coaching staff would work all week with Bryant on running one route. Taught him the slant one week, etc. Tuitt was a big part of the woes in the run defense early. There is a huge learning curve for everybody going from college to the NFL. They are both contributing now, when it really matters.

[papillon]

That's exactly the case. There were a lot of articles mid-season about how the coaching staff would work all week with Bryant on running one route. Taught him the slant one week, etc. Tuitt was a big part of the woes in the run defense early. There is a huge learning curve for everybody going from college to the NFL. They are both contributing now, when it really matters.

And, as we all know, its not running the route, every WR knows how to run an out, a dig, a post, a skinny post, etc, but what they don't know how to do is run them within the offense and based off how the defense responds to a particular play call. I'm sure Bryant knows how to run a dig, but when did he learn which dig to run, a basic 3-4 yard dig, a deep dig or a comeback, this is knowing the offense and how to respond to a particular defense. If the WR and the QB aren't reading the defense the same you get interceptions because the WR ran a deep dig and the QB read a standard dig. Its the same for any pattern, they all know what they are and how to run them, its when to run them that needs to be learned.

Pappy

[Shoe]

I will admit that Tomlin has done a good job with this team this year, and that I was disappointed in him these last couple years. I wasn't in the "fire Tomlin" camp though. In Haley's case, I was always in his corner (he was being unfairly blamed, even as Ben enjoyed his best three-year stretch). In DL's case, though it seems the D has somehow become more solid, I stand by my remarks (that it is time for him to go). I give him credit for this year though.

[Chucktownsteeler]

And, as we all know, its not running the route, every WR knows how to run an out, a dig, a post, a skinny post, etc, but what they don't know how to do is run them within the offense and based off how the defense responds to a particular play call. I'm sure Bryant knows how to run a dig, but when did he learn which dig to run, a basic 3-4 yard dig, a deep dig or a comeback, this is knowing the offense and how to respond to a particular defense. If the WR and the QB aren't reading the defense the same you get interceptions because the WR ran a deep dig and the QB read a standard dig. Its the same for any pattern, they all know what they are and how to run them, its when to run them that needs to be learned.

Pappy

Not to beat a dead horse, but did Justin Brown know this stuff? Seems to me he had zero experience. I dunno maybe I'm wrong but it seems to take the Steelers a while to make the required changes needed. Take for instance the secondary. They seem to be doing much better now (although they are benefiting from a better front 7).

[papillon]

Not to beat a dead horse, but did Justin Brown know this stuff? Seems to me he had zero experience. I dunno maybe I'm wrong but it seems to take the Steelers a while to make the required changes needed. Take for instance the secondary. They seem to be doing much better now (although they are benefiting from a better front 7).

Good question, I have no idea if Justin Brown knew the offense any better than Bryant, if I had to guess, I would say that he did based on Bryant being behind him on the depth chart. Brown was also a Steeler the previous year, so I would have to think he knew a little more than Bryant who is a rookie. Steeler coaches may prefer experience to youth, but I don't think they'd let someone sit the bench if they believed he could help the team win games.

Pappy

[feltdizz]

Not to beat a dead horse, but did Justin Brown know this stuff? Seems to me he had zero experience. I dunno maybe I'm wrong but it seems to take the Steelers a while to make the required changes needed. Take for instance the secondary. They seem to be doing much better now (although they are benefiting from a better front 7).

I think someone posted a photo of JB working with Ben in the offseason. Pretty sure he knew more than Bryant.

[fezziwig]

I think our defense has stepped up more than our offense these past few games. The defense, special teams has put needed points on the board. The defense has also been getting turnovers. The offense still has some woes to iron out with or without Bell.

[phillyesq]

I think someone posted a photo of JB working with Ben in the offseason. Pretty sure he knew more than Bryant.

Not to mention, he had an entire year of learning the system and working with NFL coaches.

[squidkid]

someone would have to show me what tomlin did different during the end of the season that he didnt do at the beginning


anyone? anyone?

[papillon]

I think our defense has stepped up more than our offense these past few games. The defense, special teams has put needed points on the board. The defense has also been getting turnovers. The offense still has some woes to iron out with or without Bell.

I agree with this, the offense has sputtered early in games, where if they put up points it would have made playing defense a lot easier, but its a team game and the defense and STs did their jobs. The offense did theirs once they got rolling, team game, the parts are all interrelated.

Pappy

[Slapstick]

anyone? anyone?

I don't think Tomlin had to do anything different. It just took some time for the young players to learn what he and the other coaches wanted them to do.

[Oviedo]

Good question, I have no idea if Justin Brown knew the offense any better than Bryant, if I had to guess, I would say that he did based on Bryant being behind him on the depth chart. Brown was also a Steeler the previous year, so I would have to think he knew a little more than Bryant who is a rookie. Steeler coaches may prefer experience to youth, but I don't think they'd let someone sit the bench if they believed he could help the team win games.

Pappy

Justin Brown was a "quitter" in college and won't be anything more than a journeyman in the NFL. Steelers need to dump him and give the roster spot to someone who deserves it. Best part of Bryant coming into his own is I won't see Justin Brown out there.

[buccoray61]

Justin Brown was a "quitter" in college and won't be anything more than a journeyman in the NFL. Steelers need to dump him and give the roster spot to someone who deserves it. Best part of Bryant coming into his own is I won't see Justin Brown out there.

Ben Tate has his roster spot now.

[Slapstick]

Yeah...Justin Brown a "quitter"...mmm'kay...

[Ghost]

Brown may or may not be a quitter but he got fired today.