Cam Heyward...

[Oviedo]

Is he on his way to becoming better than Aaron Smith? Despite the limitation put on him the way he is used in this defense he seems to come up with a big play every game now. He was a beast yesterday.

[hawaiiansteel]

Alex Kozora retweeted
Steelers Depot @Steelersdepot -

#Steelers David DeCastro, Cameron Heyward Receive Top PFF Marks For Play Against Falcons

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2014/12/steelers-david-decastro-cameron-heyward-receive-top-pff-marks-play-falcons/

[steelblood]

And, he is a leader like Smith. I am thrilled with the guy. Steeler through and through.

[Shawn]

Better than Smith would be quite a feat. I think he can be more disruptive than Smith. I think he can get more sacks than Smith. But, there was probably no better technician to ever play 3-4 DE than Smith.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Is he on his way to becoming better than Aaron Smith? Despite the limitation put on him the way he is used in this defense he seems to come up with a big play every game now. He was a beast yesterday.

Any credit to LeBeau and Mitchell developing him? Didn't think so...

[SidSmythe]

Cam Heyward is a man's man. Love these guys who hit puberty when they were 8 so by the time they get to the NFL they are strong enough to hold the fort.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Cam Heyward is a man's man. Love these guys who hit puberty when they were 8 so by the time they get to the NFL they are strong enough to hold the fort.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pQm1_ff5Pb0/hqdefault.jpg


Hey Ironhead, what's with this thingy?

Listen, chump! Zest body wash doesn't contain heavy moisturizers!

;)

[flippy]

Cam might already be as good if not better than Aaron Smith.

Cam had 59 tackles last year. Aaron's best season was 53 and he averaged in the 30s. Cam has already surpassed that type of production this season again.

Aaron averaged about 5 sacks a season. Cam got there last year and he's at 5 this year. So you've got very similar production. Aaron got to 8 twice. So he's outdone Cam's best season so far. But I think Cam actually does a better job generating pressure.

Aaron averaged about 2 PDs per season. Cam got to 7 last year and has 3 this year. I think he does a better job of clogging up throwing lanes with his big paws.

If you compare the 4th season of both players, they've put up nearly identical numbers at the position. So they're very comparable.

[feltdizz]

Cam might already be as good if not better than Aaron Smith.

Cam had 59 tackles last year. Aaron's best season was 53 and he averaged in the 30s. Cam has already surpassed that type of production this season again.

Aaron averaged about 5 sacks a season. Cam got there last year and he's at 5 this year. So you've got very similar production. Aaron got to 8 twice. So he's outdone Cam's best season so far. But I think Cam actually does a better job generating pressure.

Aaron averaged about 2 PDs per season. Cam got to 7 last year and has 3 this year. I think he does a better job of clogging up throwing lanes with his big paws.

If you compare the 4th season of both players, they've put up nearly identical numbers at the position. So they're very comparable.

good info...

[ikestops85]

I love Cam and everything but I still see him getting blown off the line of scrimmage more than I'd like on running plays. That rarely happened to Aaron although some of the credit for that might belong to Hampton keeping the double teams off our guys.

[DukieBoy]

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pQm1_ff5Pb0/hqdefault.jpg


Hey Ironhead, what's with this thingy?

Listen, chump! Zest body wash doesn't contain heavy moisturizers!

;)

Son of IronHead, he's that Ahrn Man!

[RuthlessBurgher]

he's that Ahrn Man!

I thought that was Robert Downey, Jr.? ;)

[Shawn]

Cam might already be as good if not better than Aaron Smith.

Cam had 59 tackles last year. Aaron's best season was 53 and he averaged in the 30s. Cam has already surpassed that type of production this season again.

Aaron averaged about 5 sacks a season. Cam got there last year and he's at 5 this year. So you've got very similar production. Aaron got to 8 twice. So he's outdone Cam's best season so far. But I think Cam actually does a better job generating pressure.

Aaron averaged about 2 PDs per season. Cam got to 7 last year and has 3 this year. I think he does a better job of clogging up throwing lanes with his big paws.

If you compare the 4th season of both players, they've put up nearly identical numbers at the position. So they're very comparable.

IMO, this is crazy talk and I am a HUGE Cam fan. The things an all world 3-4DE does can not be measured merely by tackles and sacks. Smith is probably one of the if not the best 3-4 DE to ever play the game because of the way he sealed the edge and could consume blocks to free up his LBrs.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

IMO, this is crazy talk and I am a HUGE Cam fan. The things an all world 3-4DE does can not be measured merely by tackles and sacks. Smith is probably one of the if not the best 3-4 DE to ever play the game because of the way he sealed the edge and could consume blocks to free up his LBrs.

X2...Get back to me when Cam puts up those same numbers while being doubled every play. I love Heyward but come on.

[flippy]

IMO, this is crazy talk and I am a HUGE Cam fan. The things an all world 3-4DE does can not be measured merely by tackles and sacks. Smith is probably one of the if not the best 3-4 DE to ever play the game because of the way he sealed the edge and could consume blocks to free up his LBrs.

Cam also has to play next to Steve McClendon rather than Casey Hampton. And I think most would agree that it would be a lot easier to look good at your position when the guy next to you is consistently collapsing the middle of the pocket several yards into the backfield. Takes a lot of pressure off the DEs with a great NT.

Aaron also played with OLBs that were a constant threat to bring pressure on opposing QBs. He played with legendary players. It took a lot of focus off him.

Cam is playing on a Defense in transition. It's no where near as good across the board as it was when Aaron was here. And the quality of the unit around you makes a huge impact on how good any individual can be. Cam is making massive impact without a lot of support around him. And he's still young and up and coming.

Seriously though, what post on this board isn't crazy ;)

[feltdizz]

Cam also has to play next to Steve McClendon rather than Casey Hampton. And I think most would agree that it would be a lot easier to look good at your position when the guy next to you is consistently collapsing the middle of the pocket several yards into the backfield. Takes a lot of pressure off the DEs with a great NT.

Aaron also played with OLBs that were a constant threat to bring pressure on opposing QBs. He played with legendary players. It took a lot of focus off him.

Cam is playing on a Defense in transition. It's no where near as good across the board as it was when Aaron was here. And the quality of the unit around you makes a huge impact on how good any individual can be. Cam is making massive impact without a lot of support around him. And he's still young and up and coming.

Seriously though, what post on this board isn't crazy ;)

Good points...

Put Aaron Smith on this D in his prime and he would probably look similar to Cam.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Aaron also played with OLBs that were a constant threat to bring pressure on opposing QBs.

Perhaps those OLB's were able to be a constant threat to opposing QB's because they benefitted from playing behind Aaron Smith?

[BradshawsHairdresser]

Good points...

Put Aaron Smith on this D in his prime and he would probably look similar to Cam.

Put Aaron Smith on this D in his prime, and the teammates around him would look better (well, except for Cam Thomas). Smith was that good.

We don't have any D-linemen that are as good as Smith in his prime. Heyward might get there, but he isn't yet, IMO.

[fordfixer]

Perhaps those OLB's were able to be a constant threat to opposing QB's because they benefitted from playing behind Aaron Smith?
You just gotta muddy the water don't you :D

[feltdizz]

Put Aaron Smith on this D in his prime, and the teammates around him would look better (well, except for Cam Thomas). Smith was that good.

We don't have any D-linemen that are as good as Smith in his prime. Heyward might get there, but he isn't yet, IMO.

That may be true but I seriously doubt it.

We have a lot of young inexperienced players on this D.

[RuthlessBurgher]

You just gotta muddy the water don't you :D

http://rockingjohnnys.com/image/cache/data/randb/Muddy-Waters-white-500x500.jpg

[Oviedo]

Perhaps those OLB's were able to be a constant threat to opposing QB's because they benefitted from playing behind Aaron Smith?
Clark Haggans played on Smith's side and I don't think he was ever a "constant threat to opposing QBs." Not sure I would use Haggans performance to praise Smith.

[steelblood]

IMO, this is crazy talk and I am a HUGE Cam fan. The things an all world 3-4DE does can not be measured merely by tackles and sacks. Smith is probably one of the if not the best 3-4 DE to ever play the game because of the way he sealed the edge and could consume blocks to free up his LBrs.

I think you are crazy. Aaron Smith is nowhere near the best 3-4 DE of all time.

JJ Watt, Bruce Smith, and Haloti Ngata are better, waaay better. I don't see how you can even have a discussion on the topic. They all have strength similar to Smith's and have way more athleticism. Heck Justin Smith is probably better. Aaron Smith is a Steelers legend, but he will probably never even sniff the hall of fame and does not merit consideration as the best 3-4 DE of all time.

[Slapstick]

All about Cam:

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/ron-cook/2014/12/16/Ron-Cook-Keisel-molds-Heyward-into-a-force/stories/201412160125


Ron Cook: Keisel molds Heyward into a force


It is clear now why Steelers defensive end Cam Heyward was nearly in tears when teammate Brett Keisel went down and out for the season with a torn triceps Nov. 30 against the New Orleans Saints.“He’s my Obi-Wan Kenobi,” Heyward was saying Sunday after the Steelers beat the Atlanta Falcons.
In case you’re not a Star Wars fan, Kenobi was a legendary Jedi Master. He is famous for training Anakin Skywalker and mentoring Luke Skywalker.
As far as Heyward is concerned, making that comparison is the greatest compliment he can give Keisel.
“Even when I wasn’t playing, Keis was teaching me and getting me ready,” he said. “I sat next to him in the meeting room every day. I’m still sitting next to him. He’s still teaching me.”
It’s a special relationship the two have, Keisel passing on the knowledge he has gained in 13 NFL seasons to Heyward — Ironhead’s boy — who is becoming a star in his fourth year in the league.
“Becoming a star? He is a star,” Keisel said.
They say a teacher’s greatest reward isn’t financial, but rather the joy that comes from seeing a student excel. So it is with Keisel when it comes to Heyward. Keisel watched him come into the NFL as the Steelers’ No. 1 draft choice in 2011, thinking Heyward one day would take his job. He watched Heyward struggle to get on the field, not getting his first start until the fourth game the 2013 season, his third in the league. He heard the whispers that Heyward was a bust even if he couldn’t believe what he was hearing.
“That was a joke,” Keisel said. “Every one of us knew his potential. He is one of those special talents. It takes time in this system. It takes time to learn the technique. It takes time to even get comfortable in your stance. He’s at that point now where he’s comfortable. He’s making plays. He’s such a big reason we’re 9-5.”
Heyward made an impact in the 27-20 win against the Falcons. In a span of four plays in the third quarter, he batted down a pass by quarterback Matt Ryan, then tackled running back Steven Jackson for a 2-yard loss on a second-and-1 play at the Steelers 2. Other than cornerback William Gay’s 52-yard interception return for a touchdown in the second quarter, the play on Jackson might have been the Steelers’ biggest defensive play of the game. The Falcons had to settle for a field goal, cutting the Steelers’ lead to 20-13.
“It’s fun to just be out there playing,” Heyward said, thinking back to his two-plus years as a backup and special-teams player. “You want to be a part of the pressure situations. You want to be the guy to step up.”
Heyward added a quarterback pressure in the fourth quarter and leads the Steelers with 17. He also leads the team with five sacks, which is a remarkable achievement. Usually it’s the outside linebackers who get most of the sacks in the Steelers system. They didn’t get to Ryan Sunday.
“He wants to be great,” Keisel said. “There’s a price that comes with that. You’ve got to work for it. He’s putting the work in.”
Heyward has become the Steelers’ best defensive player — better even than linebacker Lawrence Timmons — although he never would admit that.
“I’m not a finished product by any means. I’m leaving a lot of stuff on the table. I’m leaving sacks on the table. I’ve got a long way to go.”
Keisel continues to be a presence with the Steelers and will continue to push Heyward the rest of the season. If he’s not back with the Steelers next season, Keisel will watch Heyward’s production from afar.
“I’m so proud of him, the progress he’s made, the player he’s turned into,” Keisel said. “The crazy thing is he’s only going to get better. He’s only going to get stronger. He’s only going to get more powerful. It’s going to be exciting to watch him.”
It was time for the punch line.
“He had a really good teacher,” Keisel said, grinning through all that hair on his face.
Keisel was kidding, of course.
Heyward was dead serious.
“I owe everything to Keis.”

[feltdizz]

I think you are crazy. Aaron Smith is nowhere near the best 3-4 DE of all time.

JJ Watt, Bruce Smith, and Haloti Ngata are better, waaay better. I don't see how you can even have a discussion on the topic. They all have strength similar to Smith's and have way more athleticism. Heck Justin Smith is probably better. Aaron Smith is a Steelers legend, but he will probably never even sniff the hall of fame and does not merit consideration as the best 3-4 DE of all time.

yep... Smith is honorable mention when discussing top 3-4 DE's.

[Shawn]

I think you are crazy. Aaron Smith is nowhere near the best 3-4 DE of all time.

JJ Watt, Bruce Smith, and Haloti Ngata are better, waaay better. I don't see how you can even have a discussion on the topic. They all have strength similar to Smith's and have way more athleticism. Heck Justin Smith is probably better. Aaron Smith is a Steelers legend, but he will probably never even sniff the hall of fame and does not merit consideration as the best 3-4 DE of all time. That is fine to disagree. I believe there is no better technician to ever play the 3-4 DE than Smith. I don't mean the most disruptive...or the guy who gets the most sacks. I am talking about the guy that frees up his LBrs better than any 3-4 in the history of the game. Shoot, Cam is more disruptive...now. That doesn't mean he is better. A 3-4 DE's primary purpose in THIS system is to free up LBrs. He did his job, the job LeBeau asked him to do better than anyone.

[Shawn]

Clark Haggans played on Smith's side and I don't think he was ever a "constant threat to opposing QBs." Not sure I would use Haggans performance to praise Smith. That's because Haggans sucked.

[Shawn]

I think you are crazy. Aaron Smith is nowhere near the best 3-4 DE of all time.

JJ Watt, Bruce Smith, and Haloti Ngata are better, waaay better. I don't see how you can even have a discussion on the topic. They all have strength similar to Smith's and have way more athleticism. Heck Justin Smith is probably better. Aaron Smith is a Steelers legend, but he will probably never even sniff the hall of fame and does not merit consideration as the best 3-4 DE of all time.

BTW: I would ask how many two gap 3-4 DEs were better than A. Smith. That would be a better question. Because neither B. Smith nor JJ Watt were/are 2 gap 3-4 DEs. Shoot, most of JJ's sacks have come from DT in the dime. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

[SteelBuckeye]

Wow, there is a tendency among us Steelers fans to get a lil riled up when someone says that a young player has the chance to be as great as one of our all time favorites. Aaron was good, real good. He was great at what we asked him to do. Heyward is good. He's progressing to the point that we can and do compare him to Aaron Smith. He has the talent, work ethic, demeanor and budding leadership skills where such comparisons are not baseless, if a little premature.
One thing of note to me is that Cam is not being asked to play DE in this version of our defense the same way that Aaron was. Cam is asked to do a little more in that he is tasked with bringing pressure due to the lack of pressure generated from our OLB. He does that plus holds the edge.
Also, Cam is starting to see more than his fair share of double teams and he's still producing.
Cam Heyward is not Aaron Smith. He shouldn't worry about being Aaron Smith. What he should do is continue to work to be the best Cam Heyward he can be. If he does that, then someday we'll be getting riled up because someone has the audacity to compare some young DE to Cam Heyward.

[Shawn]

Wow, there is a tendency among us Steelers fans to get a lil riled up when someone says that a young player has the chance to be as great as one of our all time favorites. Aaron was good, real good. He was great at what we asked him to do. Heyward is good. He's progressing to the point that we can and do compare him to Aaron Smith. He has the talent, work ethic, demeanor and budding leadership skills where such comparisons are not baseless, if a little premature.
One thing of note to me is that Cam is not being asked to play DE in this version of our defense the same way that Aaron was. Cam is asked to do a little more in that he is tasked with bringing pressure due to the lack of pressure generated from our OLB. He does that plus holds the edge.
Also, Cam is starting to see more than his fair share of double teams and he's still producing.
Cam Heyward is not Aaron Smith. He shouldn't worry about being Aaron Smith. What he should do is continue to work to be the best Cam Heyward he can be. If he does that, then someday we'll be getting riled up because someone has the audacity to compare some young DE to Cam Heyward.

I'm certainly not "riled up". I am a Buckeye fan...and love me some Buckeye players. I deal with reality. But, Heyward isn't Smith...not yet.

[SteelBuckeye]

I'm certainly not "riled up". I am a Buckeye fan...and love me some Buckeye players. I deal with reality. But, Heyward isn't Smith...not yet.

That's the point. Cam Heyward isn't Aaron Smith. And he shouldn't worry about being Aaron. Just be the best Cam Heyward he can be and the rest will take care of itself.

And yep Shaw, I know you love our Buckeyes (Beat 'Bama!!!).

[RuthlessBurgher]

One thing of note to me is that Cam is not being asked to play DE in this version of our defense the same way that Aaron was. Cam is asked to do a little more in that he is tasked with bringing pressure due to the lack of pressure generated from our OLB. He does that plus holds the edge.

Reading this board, I was under the impression that old man LeBeau refuses to change his scheme even one iota (because people his age never change), so he refuses to adapt what his defense does since he doesn't want to call his baby ugly (or something like that).

[Shawn]

Reading this board, I was under the impression that old man LeBeau refuses to change his scheme even one iota (because people his age never change), so he refuses to adapt what his defense does since he doesn't want to call his baby ugly (or something like that). Yeah, it's just not true. And I must admit I have been hard on the old man. But, the more I read about this D, and watch them improve the more I believe he does indeed adjust to his talent level...and I believe he still has it.

[flippy]

Reading this board, I was under the impression that old man LeBeau refuses to change his scheme even one iota (because people his age never change), so he refuses to adapt what his defense does since he doesn't want to call his baby ugly (or something like that).

Just remember - old people will die and everything will be alright ;)

[steelblood]

BTW: I would ask how many two gap 3-4 DEs were better than A. Smith. That would be a better question. Because neither B. Smith nor JJ Watt were/are 2 gap 3-4 DEs. Shoot, most of JJ's sacks have come from DT in the dime. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

In the second half of his career, Bruce Smith did play two gap on first and second down and he was awesome. Ngata is also a better run stuffer than Smith. Smith may be a better technician (maybe), but he wasn't better.

[steelblood]

That is fine to disagree. I believe there is no better technician to ever play the 3-4 DE than Smith. I don't mean the most disruptive...or the guy who gets the most sacks. I am talking about the guy that frees up his LBrs better than any 3-4 in the history of the game. Shoot, Cam is more disruptive...now. That doesn't mean he is better. A 3-4 DE's primary purpose in THIS system is to free up LBrs. He did his job, the job LeBeau asked him to do better than anyone.

No, you said one of if not the best 3-4 DE of all time. That is pretty much word for word. So, that is wrong. Maybe you meant to say the best technician at occupying blockers. That is a lot more narrow and perhaps correct. But, if I am occupying blockers, I would still probably take Ngata. Maybe not technically as sound, but probably more effective ( and last time I checked, that is what mattered most).

[steelblood]

And....Cam Heyward just played perhaps the best game of his career. He did it all. Anyone doubting him now is a fool.

[Slapstick]

And....Cam Heyward just played perhaps the best game of his career. He did it all. Anyone doubting him now is a fool.

Stephon Tuitt did as well...with a sack and a forced fumble...

[NJ-STEELER]

he's dominant when he's 1 on 1 with an OL

[feltdizz]

I'm glad Cam's job isn't occupying blockers...

[papillon]

I'm glad Cam's job isn't occupying blockers...

Someone was occupying blockers because the linebackers had a pretty good day. :p

Pappy

[Oviedo]

I'm glad Cam's job isn't occupying blockers...

Imagine how dominant he and Tuitt could be if they weren't...every play not just a portion of them

[feltdizz]

Someone was occupying blockers because the linebackers had a pretty good day. :p

Pappy

good catch...

[Slapstick]

Someone was occupying blockers because the linebackers had a pretty good day. :p

Pappy

Yeah, LeBeau's system doesn't allow D-Linemen like Heyward to produce...:rolleyes: