Opinions please! Why are we 8-5 and not 12-1, 11-2 or 10-3?

[SteelCrazy]

Why can't this team win consistently? Let's hear those opinions.........

[Slapstick]

Because, as I believe Shawn pointed out, they are a bad mix of too old and too young...

Too old + too young = inconsistent...

[feltdizz]

Because the other team gets paid too

[SteelCrazy]

As I suspected....

[fordfixer]

We're just not that good and the teams we've beat have played down to our level :p

[RobinCole]

I suspect part of it is that the players are humans, not robots. Even the Steelers of the '70s laid occasional clunkers and this team has nowhere near the elite talent and cohesiveness that the '70s team did. It's a different game now not just because of rules changes but because with free agency and salary caps, it's difficult to have strength at all positions. It's almost impossible to have depth. Back in "those days", we could lose a Jack Ham to injury and plug in Dirt Winston. As happened in 1979.

[SteelCrazy]

I suspect part of it is that the players are humans, not robots. Even the Steelers of the '70s laid occasional clunkers and this team has nowhere near the elite talent and cohesiveness that the '70s team did. It's a different game now not just because of rules changes but because with free agency and salary caps, it's difficult to have strength at all positions. It's almost impossible to have depth. Back in "those days", we could lose a Jack Ham to injury and plug in Dirt Winston. As happened in 1979.

I like your answer, but not the one I'm looking for in this thread. I'm just curious if anyone else believes what I do and if it were fixed we'd be 12-1 or 11-2.

[flippy]

Good Ben vs Bad Ben

Our QB is talented enough to overcome all this team's shortcomings. Unfortunately he gets hot or cold with no in between.

[SidSmythe]

Cuz in a few of those games the other team scored my points?

[Iron City Inc.]

Right now our secondary is well below par. No question there. We have not put steady pressure on qb's. That is a bad combo in what is now the passing league the rules have caused the NFL to be. On O we have some special players and that has overcome some defensive faults.
No coaching can overcome such a huge hole in talent on D. D D and more D will be the theme in draft 15. Nail a few picks and we could see 12+ wins next year.

[Eich]

Good Ben vs Bad Ben

Our QB is talented enough to overcome all this team's shortcomings. Unfortunately he gets hot or cold with no in between.


This is my thoughts exactly and I mentioned as much the other day to friends. The team definitely has several shortcomings, so you can point in many directions for reasons that we're sitting at 8-5, pretty much needing to win-out to get in. But the primary common denominator IMO is Ben. When he plays great, we win. When he has an off day, there's a good chance we will struggle.

It almost seems to me that Ben is struggling with something personally, which affects his game from time to time. You don't typically hear of a QB of his pedigree, success and time in the league, struggling with mechanics at this point in his career. Something mental is causing him to lose focus at times, leading to mechanics issues that he now has to remind himself of.

Whatever it is, I hope he's able to keep working through it and play consistently like the QB we know he is. He's breaking all sorts of records this year. Imagine if he was playing with the hot hand all season long?

[feltdizz]

Mike Mitchell.. that guy made Troy and Ike play like they are old vets. It's all his fault.

Seriously though, I think it's Bad Ben in most of our losses. I think his mechanics slide because he is a big guy with a big arm. He doesn't do the little things that well and it's because he plays a different style of football. He has won a ton of games with sloppy mechanics. He isn't going to turn into Tom Brady, when it comes to mechanics, in his 11th or 12 year.

I remember a stat where his completion percentage after contact was some insanely high number like 75% while every other QB in the league after contact saw their completion percentage drop in half. When you have numbers like that you aren't going to change you mechanics that much.

We have also never seen Ben have a hot hand all season and in the playoffs. We were 7-5 and left for dead when he won his first SB. We were a nightmare in the RZ and went 10 quarters without a TD in 2008. We usually see some ugly Ben before he turns in on in the playoffs. I think this may be another year where we see him go off. Only problem is our D is nowhere as good as 05, 08, 11

[Jigawatts]

Because the other team gets paid too

That makes way too much sense

[PerogiesPlus]

We were 7-5 and left for dead when he won his first SB.

Ben missed four games. 2-2 without him.

Here are Ben Roethlisberger's 2005 numbers in 16 games:

226 of 361 (62% ) for 3188 yards (8.3 YPA) for 24 TDS 12 INTS, 99.3 QB rating 5 rush tds = 29 total TDs

To compare:

Here are Tom Brady's 2001 numbers in 18 games:

324 of 510 (63%) for 3415 yards (6.9 YPA) for 19 TDS 13 INTS, 84.7 QB rating 1 rush td = 20 total TDs

Ben is almost a yard and a half better in YPA, 15 points better in QB rating, and has 9 more total TDs despite playing in two less games. I did Brady a favor by comparing their whole seasons, if I did it just by post season it wouldn't even be close.

But because Tom Brady won the SB MVP because of the fan vote (Ty Law won the media's vote) his pedestrian numbers are ignored.

[feltdizz]

Ben missed four games. 2-2 without him.

Here are Ben Roethlisberger's 2005 numbers in 16 games:

226 of 361 (62% ) for 3188 yards (8.3 YPA) for 24 TDS 12 INTS, 99.3 QB rating 5 rush tds = 29 total TDs

To compare:

Here are Tom Brady's 2001 numbers in 18 games:

324 of 510 (63%) for 3415 yards (6.9 YPA) for 19 TDS 13 INTS, 84.7 QB rating 1 rush td = 20 total TDs

Ben is almost a yard and a half better in YPA, 15 points better in QB rating, and has 9 more total TDs despite playing in two less games. I did Brady a favor by comparing their whole seasons, if I did it just by post season it wouldn't even be close.

But because Tom Brady won the SB MVP because of the fan vote (Ty Law won the media's vote) his pedestrian numbers are ignored.

sorry but I have no idea what your point is..

I never said Ben didn't have good stats every year. I said our O looked pedestrian for a few games every year before we went on SB runs.

At 7-5... and 5-3 with Ben.. clearly we left plays on the field on offense.

[Oviedo]

Defense sucks! Probably the worst in my memory. Our Def Coord no longer has answers. Thank you!

[papillon]

Big plays given up by the defense are the difference between 8-5 and 10-3 or 11-2, IMO.

Pappy

[Eich]

Big plays given up by the defense are the difference between 8-5 and 10-3 or 11-2, IMO.

Pappy

We've given up plenty of big plays on defense in our wins. I don't see them as the main difference between 10-3/8-5. When Ben is hot, we win. As flip said, we have tons of shortcomings that you can point to. Giving up big plays on D is one of them. Eight times, Ben has overcome them, 5 times, he hasn't.

It's not really putting the blame at the feet of Ben. It's not his fault that we have so many other shortcomings. It's hard to be superman for 16 games. But this season, he is the main difference - IMO - between 8-5 and 10-3 or better.

[SteelCrazy]

Iron City Inc., Oviedo, and papillon are correct, in my opinion.

The Defense starting with our OLB's and ending with our secondary are the main reason's we have 5 losses. Did anyone on this forum every believe there would be a day that a Steelers 3-4 defensive lineman would be our sack leader after 13 games (Cam - 5)? Inferior product (70%) and a lack of blitz packages (30%) caused this nightmare. Having our LB's in coverage is a waste when our DB's are getting beat 50 yards down field.

Our secondary, if we can even call it a secondary is horrible. Ike is done. I loved the guy for years and still do, but he is finished. Cortez Allen, well I think the coaches gave up on him to early, but having Gay in the game was an upgrade, but Allen needed time for redemption. You just signed him to a big contract, (for us) so let him play. Troy is getting up in age, slowing down, but I believe he is still one of the better safety's in the game. He never was a great tackler, but with our secondary in the shape its in makes his misses look worse. Mike Mitchell was a wasted pick-up in FA. He is dead money, but still plays. McCullers would be an upgrade at safety.he tries to freelance like Troy but gets himself away from the play in the process. He also bites hard on play action which takes him out of the play.

Our #2 pick should go on a FS.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Turnovers are at the top of the list followed by 3rd down %'s on offense and defense.

[papillon]

Turnovers are at the top of the list followed by 3rd down %'s on offense and defense.

I thought I read or heard somewhere that the Steelers defense is ranked third on 3rd down defense and 5th or 6th on 3rd down offense. If that is true I don't think 3rd down is an issue with the Steelers.

IMO, regardless of whether they win or lose giving up big plays puts the team in a disadvantage and I think the Steelers inability to stop big plays from happening is a major reason they haven't won 2 more games, maybe 3.

Pappy

[RuthlessBurgher]

Defense sucks! Probably the worst in my memory. Our Def Coord no longer has answers. Thank you!

I had no idea that you felt this way! Thanks for clearing that up!

[Oviedo]

I had no idea that you felt this way! Thanks for clearing that up!

i'm always here for you;)

[SS Laser]

Here is how I see it. In the past when Ben was having a stinker of a game the D was good enough to keep it close so Ben could win it at the end. Now the pressure is ON Ben to be the elite QB. And some times he does it some times not. The D can not bail out the O now. The O can bail out the D though. If they can find some how to have a little bit of balance between O and D the rest of the season and playoff could be fun!

[SteelCrazy]

Here is how I see it. In the past when Ben was having a stinker of a game the D was good enough to keep it close so Ben could win it at the end. Now the pressure is ON Ben to be the elite QB. And some times he does it some times not. The D can not bail out the O now. The O can bail out the D though. If they can find some how to have a little bit of balance between O and D the rest of the season and playoff could be fun!

I can agree with that...Our Running offense is ranked 8th...our pass offense is ranked 2nd......our rushing D is ranked 9th and our passing D is ranked...wait for it................23rd! A little more balance on passing D and it could be a SB year!

[tiproast]

I can agree with that...Our Running offense is ranked 8th...our pass offense is ranked 2nd......our rushing D is ranked 9th and our passing D is ranked...wait for it................23rd! A little more balance on passing D and it could be a SB year!
While the schedule for every team is predetermined far in advance, and there's no way to predict which divisions will be weak and which ones will be strong from year to year, it's still the case that this year, the Steelers have played one of the weakest schedules in the league (29th ranked schedule according to Sagarin Ratings (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/nfl/sagarin/)).

So those team statistics, while impressive, should be viewed in light of the competition the Steelers have faced.

[SteelCrazy]

While the schedule for every team is predetermined far in advance, and there's no way to predict which divisions will be weak and which ones will be strong from year to year, it's still the case that this year, the Steelers have played one of the weakest schedules in the league (29th ranked schedule according to Sagarin Ratings (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/nfl/sagarin/)).

So those team statistics, while impressive, should be viewed in light of the competition the Steelers have faced.

while posters on PS.com are random people from all over there is no way to predict which ones will be weak and which ones will be strong from post to post, its still the case this year, tiproast has been one of the weakest posters in the forum. (201st ranked poster according to Razzing Rankings).

So those individual posts, while boring, should be viewed under the influence. :p

[bostonsteeler]

Because the other team gets paid too

This!
Somehow we tend to ignore the fact that they are all just as motivated.

[bostonsteeler]

While the schedule for every team is predetermined far in advance, and there's no way to predict which divisions will be weak and which ones will be strong from year to year, it's still the case that this year, the Steelers have played one of the weakest schedules in the league (29th ranked schedule according to Sagarin Ratings (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/nfl/sagarin/)).

So those team statistics, while impressive, should be viewed in light of the competition the Steelers have faced.

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

The Steelers actually have a far worse record (in terms of yards, points etc) against *losing* teams this year, than against *winning* teams. The "quality of opposition" logic doesn't hold.
We *wish* they would blow out the "weak" teams by scoring to the same degree as they do the winning teams, on a consistent basis. They dont.

[BradshawsHairdresser]

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

The Steelers actually have a far worse record (in terms of yards, points etc) against *losing* teams this year, than against *winning* teams. The "quality of opposition" logic doesn't hold.
We *wish* they would blow out the "weak" teams by scoring to the same degree as they do the winning teams, on a consistent basis. They dont.

$$$$$$$
For this team, a weaker schedule doesn't seem to be an advantage.

[tiproast]

201st ranked poster according to Razzing Rankings.
Thanks for posting that - I don't have access to those rankings. Tell me, am I above or below pirogi pete?

[SteelCrazy]

Thanks for posting that - I don't have access to those rankings. Tell me, am I above or below pirogi pete?

No one is below pirogi......203rd

Seriously though, you made a good point, however bostonsteeler (11th) made a better one.

[WindyCitySteel]

Good Ben vs Bad Ben

Our QB is talented enough to overcome all this team's shortcomings. Unfortunately he gets hot or cold with no in between.

Football Outsiders has the Steelers offense ranked 3rd in the league, their highest ranking since FO started this in 1989. The defense is ranked 30th, their lowest ranking ever. Previous low was 19.

But yeah, Ben is the problem with the team.

[Eich]

Football Outsiders has the Steelers offense ranked 3rd in the league, their highest ranking since FO started this in 1989. The defense is ranked 30th, their lowest ranking ever. Previous low was 19.

But yeah, Ben is the problem with the team.

He's not asking what the problem with the team is. There are several shortcomings, which he admitted. IMO, he's asking that based on what we have on the team this year, what's causing the ups and downs? I tend to agree with him that when Ben is on fire, we win. When he isn't, the rest of the team has a hard time overcoming all the shortcomings.

We go as far as Ben takes us.

[WindyCitySteel]

He's not asking what the problem with the team is. There are several shortcomings, which he admitted. IMO, he's asking that based on what we have on the team this year, what's causing the ups and downs? I tend to agree with him that when Ben is on fire, we win. When he isn't, the rest of the team has a hard time overcoming all the shortcomings.

We go as far as Ben takes us.

In other words, we need our QB to play lights out to have a chance to win, and if he doesn't, it's his fault.

Switch QBs with Arizona and they're 12-1 at worst, the Steelers are still sniffing around for their 3rd win.