You're the coach: Troy and Ike ... start'em against Matty Ice?

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

Will Ike's "injury" still keep him on the bench?

What about Troy?

As bad as they are now, are they still more reliable than the young'uns?

I have to say, I'm not sure of the answer, but I would lean towards having our HOF and almost HOF guys not start ...

I think it goes beyond stats, it's a decision that has to be made on intangibles. Tough coaching decision, IMO.

[Oviedo]

I start Troy but I keep him deep in a high safety position because he is useless running around like a chicken with his head cut off like LeBeau has him doing at times. Taylor never sees the field again this season if I'm in charge. Put Blake our there and take our chances.

[Djfan]

I agree with Ovi.

[feltdizz]

If I were in charge Troy would play in spot duty... Ike wouldn't even dress.

[squidkid]

unfortunately, now is not the time to experiment.
troys reputation alone may be an advantage

[7 UP]

If I was in charge both Ike and Troy would be inactive. The defense was better with McCain and Will Allen out there.

[feltdizz]

If I was in charge both Ike and Troy would be inactive. The defense was better with McCain and Will Allen out there.

yup... we gave up 1 or 2 big plays with McCain and Will Allen but overall the D was more disciplined without Ike and Troy.

[Oviedo]

unfortunately, now is not the time to experiment.
troys reputation alone may be an advantage
Troy's reputation now is not the reputation of 2-3 years ago. Opponents don't care about reputation because they have so much data and film that they see better than we fans do that Troy is a shadow of his former self. Troy's worst enemy is our coaches asking him to do what he did a couple of years ago. He can't anymore. He lacks the burst that once made him special and is a step late on most plays. Lebeau and Lake have to face reality and put Troy in position to be successful by limiting the running up to the LOS and dashing back at the last minute which just puts him out of position to do anything. Keep him deep and keep the plays in front of him needs to be the new standard for Troy.

[feltdizz]

Troy's reputation now is not the reputation of 2-3 years ago. Opponents don't care about reputation because they have so much data and film that they see better than we fans do that Troy is a shadow of his former self. Troy's worst enemy is our coaches asking him to do what he did a couple of years ago. He can't anymore. He lacks the burst that once made him special and is a step late on most plays. Lebeau and Lake have to face reality and put Troy in position to be successful by limiting the running up to the LOS and dashing back at the last minute which just puts him out of position to do anything. Keep him deep and keep the plays in front of him needs to be the new standard for Troy.

His rep hasn't done a damn thing for us this year. Hopefully Ryan holds onto the ball looking for the long ball and Troy has enough time to get to him on a blitz. When Troy had that burst he would finish off plays.. this year he is always 2 steps too slow.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

Let me start off by saying there should not be ANYONE on the Steelers 2015 defensive roster 30 or over except Gay. The 30+ issue isn't about getting a couple of games out of a guy who looks like his old self. It's about a guy putting it together for 16 games plus. It's about a guy that can play at a high level every play he is on the field without taking a play off. None of the 30+'s have shown it. They filled some holes because of injuries but Father time has snowballed them...Move on...But let's finish this one on top for them!

Now...Taylor's benching <cough>...I mean injury is the end of the line. Unless it happened early in the Saints game...He should not see the field as a starter. Taylor was "respectfully" benched. Start Gay & McCain...Blake Nickel. To be completely honest...If BW Webb understands the D give Ike's helmet to Webb. Insert Webb into KR & give him a look there too.

Troy is a liability any deeper than a LB drop. Add his extension to the "questionable" contract list with Mitchell & Allen. He will have to take a 4 mil plus paycut to stick around after this year. I think he will may it easy & retire...Leaving the Steelers with a 4.5 mil souvenir. They should have went the same route they did with Taylor. Anyway, If they can't find a way to play Troy as a LB in nickel then he can't be left playing single high or even 2 deep. His instincts are sharp but he doesn't have the range to recover from false steps. I just hope they have something in Shark because W Allen isn't much better than Troy...But he is better at this point.

Why on the 30+ subject I will say this. Kiesel played a position where the age factor shows up a lot later. He filled in nicely even though he declined. However...The muscle tears are usually the start of the downhill momentum for guys in the trenches. It is the end of the line for him...He will also be missed. That being said...Getting Tuitt forced into the line-up isn't a bad thing. You will see the rewards of it WHEN the Steelers make the playoff run. 4 games to settle in just might be enough for him.



Also...Moats should start & be spelled by JJ. JJ isn't going to be 100% in pass rush maybe at all this year. It doesn't look like he could hinge his wrist yet & you could see he was limited. JH...When he returns...Should help in rotation. Moats could spell Worilds at LOLB if needed & insert JJ or JH.

I won't make any friends with this statement but that never stops me. One thing is evident...This defense is much faster without Taylor, Troy, JH, & Kiesel. That's not a knock on any of them...It is just a fact. Windows close faster all over the field even when a young player gets out of position. As the competition elevates into the playoffs..The Steelers will need that. You plug the young guys & hope they could tighten it up over the next 3 games...And I believe they are capable. Taylor, JH, & Troy can find a role down the stretch but if the Steelers have to lean on them every game...They will be sent home. JH & Troy have a big game or 2 left in them..But it's a marathon. If the Steelers want to last until the end...It's on the young guys!

[feltdizz]

great post JPN, I have been a JH and Troy fan but I can admit these guys have lost it. I want to believe JH still has enough to make a few plays since he seems to be the best out of the old bunch but we will see.

As soon as Keisel reached for his arm I said "it's torn" same thing Smith dealt with late in his career.

We are definitely a better D with Troy and Ike on the sideline. We lack the experience but I think we make up for it with young legs that can recover better than the old vets.

[Slapstick]

Ike? No...

Troy? Maybe...

[hawaiiansteel]

Ike...no way.

Troy...yes.

[pittpete]

Ike? No...

Troy? Maybe...

Ike is done...Shouldnt even dress IMO
Troy can dress but shouldnt play every snap on defense.

[Steelhere10]

If I were in charge Troy would play in spot duty... Ike wouldn't even dress.same here....

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

So now, the harder question, maybe: *will* they play/start on Sunday.

I think that 90-95% of whether we win or not is which Ben suits up. But we also needed the D to make Matty Ice (I forget, does he have another name?) at least have to hesitate now and then. Hopefully JH is back, feeling bitter and disrespected ...

[hawaiiansteel]

Alex Kozora retweeted
Steelers Depot @Steelersdepot -
·
Tomlin hints Ike Taylor might start and cover Julio. #Steelers

https://twitter.com/Alex_Kozora

[squidkid]

Alex Kozora retweeted
Steelers Depot @Steelersdepot -
·
Tomlin hints Ike Taylor might start and cover Julio. #Steelers

https://twitter.com/Alex_Kozora

ok tomlin lovers, you've been trashing ike on this thread all day. now tomlin wants to start him....................thoughts?

[Slapstick]

The Post-Gazette doesn't report that:

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2014/12/09/Tomlin-Allowing-big-plays-a-thorn-in-Steelers-side/stories/201412090195

[feltdizz]

ok tomlin lovers, you've been trashing ike on this thread all day. now tomlin wants to start him....................thoughts?

If Ike starts I will be angry...

I just read the post-gazette article and it said Tomlin said Ike may not even play.

[flippy]

I'll buck the trend and say of the 2, Ike may add more value than Troy at this point. Ike is the better conditioned athlete. And in fairness, maybe asking him to have single coverage on a guy like AJ is a bad coaching decision at this point.

Perhaps Ike can still cover a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th WR?

Troy has become ineffective. I don't know how you can really scale back his role. Also, I'm not sure how much might be on Mitchell and how the 2 work together?

But at least with Ike, I can see taking him out of single coverage on a top guy and seeing what he can do. You always need extra CBs.

[feltdizz]

I'll buck the trend and say of the 2, Ike may add more value than Troy at this point. Ike is the better conditioned athlete. And in fairness, maybe asking him to have single coverage on a guy like AJ is a bad coaching decision at this point.

Perhaps Ike can still cover a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th WR?

Troy has become ineffective. I don't know how you can really scale back his role. Also, I'm not sure how much might be on Mitchell and how the 2 work together?

But at least with Ike, I can see taking him out of single coverage on a top guy and seeing what he can do. You always need extra CBs.

This love affair with Ike has to stop. How many times does he have to get burned before we realize he just doesn't have it anymore?

[Slapstick]

If Ike starts I will be angry...

I just read the post-gazette article and it said Tomlin said Ike may not even play.


Well, clearly that's a hint that he's going to man up and shadow Julio Jones...

[Steelhere10]

This love affair with Ike has to stop. How many times does he have to get burned before we realize he just doesn't have it anymore?when Dickey retire.

[Iron City Inc.]

Alex Kozora retweeted
Steelers Depot @Steelersdepot -
·
Tomlin hints Ike Taylor might start and cover Julio. #Steelers

https://twitter.com/Alex_Kozora

That's some scary nightmare right there. I'm gonna have to talk to my bud Alex and tell him to avoid tweeting that crap.

If I had to set the game plan against Atlanta I'd be in nickle or big nickle all day and dare them to run on it. We will get beaten over the top on 0 or cover 1 wide outside the numbers so I'd stay in 2 deep shell and man under leave Troy or Thomas close to the los, keep them guessing n most often fire sometimes drop. That will take away the quick hitch n slants n perhaps that gives us enough time to get to Ryan. Even using this format which is common to take away that west coast 1 n 3 step quick drops n release we are still going to have to stop the run with 6 in the box for the most part n that's how I would try n work it.
Lets hope we score 40 and that's enough to win it.

[squidkid]

when Dickey retire.


quit blaming DL.

[Moonie]

Watching a game in person, as I did a few weeks ago, and you would be surprised at how much Polamalu does that the cameras don't catch.

As for Taylor, let's hope he has played his last down as a Steeler. He's the only player on the field who is a true liability. If he plays, every team will go after him immediately.

[feltdizz]

Watching a game in person, as I did a few weeks ago, and you would be surprised at how much Polamalu does that the cameras don't catch.


You gonna tell us or is it a secret?

I would love to hear some good info on Troy. I like him, but this year... I can't defend his play thus far

[Oviedo]

quit blaming DL.

Why? The defense he is responsible for is a mess. IIRC they lead the league in big plays given up. Our sack totals are the lowest in decades. Hopefully you were being sarcastic but to blame other not put Lebeau near the top of the list is ridiculous.

[squidkid]

Why? The defense he is responsible for is a mess. IIRC they lead the league in big plays given up. Our sack totals are the lowest in decades. Hopefully you were being sarcastic but to blame other not put Lebeau near the top of the list is ridiculous.


dont most head coaches have the ability to make changes?

[Oviedo]

dont most head coaches have the ability to make changes?

Ohhhh--so blame Tomlin for LeBeau's failings. Got it. Most head coaches probably can't show up and fire a coach anytime they want. It is probably a collaborative decision of the entire management team and does anyone doubt the Rooney's are protecting LeBeau?

[squidkid]

Ohhhh--so blame Tomlin for LeBeau's failings. Got it. Most head coaches probably can't show up and fire a coach anytime they want. It is probably a collaborative decision of the entire management team and does anyone doubt the Rooney's are protecting LeBeau?



tomlin fired arians....so he said

[squidkid]

Ohhhh--so blame Tomlin for LeBeau's failings. Got it. Most head coaches probably can't show up and fire a coach anytime they want. It is probably a collaborative decision of the entire management team and does anyone doubt the Rooney's are protecting LeBeau?


are you telling me that tomlin has so little say that he cant tell his DC or OC to play player X, or sit player X, or tweak the defense ?

[Slapstick]

1) While it is possible that LeBeau may retire after the season, things have not been so bad that it warrants LeBeau being fired within the season. It just isn't that bad.

2) As many posters have pointed out, almost ad nauseum, there have been tweaks made to the defense. There have not been wholesale changes. The reason is because those changes were not warranted. The dumbest thing to do right now would be to completely change the defensive scheme in the middle of a run towards the playoffs.

Now, should things have been changed? Perhaps. Perhaps not. That is certainly debatable, but ultimately fruitless. Will LeBeau retire? Will the reins be handed over to Butler? Will new blood be brought in? Who can say...only time will tell.

As of now, the Steelers are three games above .500 and in control of their own playoff destiny...after the last two seasons of needing help the last week of the season to make the playoffs and not getting it, I welcome the refreshing difference...

[hawaiiansteel]

Calvin Johnson supports Julio Jones

Updated: December 10, 2014
By Michael Rothstein | ESPN.com

ALLEN PARK, Mich. -- Julio Jones is still hundreds of yards away from Calvin Johnson's single-season receiving record, but there's a chance the Falcons receiver could catch him.

And Johnson, the Lions receiver who holds the mark of 1,964 yards, won't root against Jones to break it.

"You never want to pull against a guy, especially as hard as things are in this league," Johnson said Wednesday. "Especially knowing myself how hard things are. So wherever he's at, oh man, that's pretty awesome.

"It would be an awesome feat for him."

It is also one that is attainable if Jones keeps up his pace of the last two games. Jones has 1,428 receiving yards and needs to average 178.7 over the Falcons' final three contests to reach Johnson's mark.

Jones put up 189 yards in Week 13 and 259 yards Monday night against Green Bay to put himself within distance of Johnson's record.

"He's had big games," Johnson said. "So he can definitely do that."

Johnson set the mark in 2012, breaking Jerry Rice's record of 1,848 yards set with San Francisco in 1995.

When Jones is healthy, Johnson said he believes he is one of the best receivers in the NFL.

"He's a big, fast, physical receiver," Johnson said. "... He's an explosive guy. I would say when he's healthy, he's one of the top guys in the league."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12010354/calvin-johnson-detroit-lions-says-awesome-julio-jones-atlanta-falcons-breaks-nfl-receiving-record

[Flasteel]

Personally, I don't trust Ike at all. He has had moments of stability, but he has not been the same since he got Tebowed. I don't know if last week had more to do with him being injured, but that level of play would be consistent with a lot of the almost regular meltdowns we have seen from him over the past few seasons. The decision to have him man-up on AJ Green seems crazy to me.

As far as Polamalu, it's hard not to notice the number of times he's out of position and the complete lack of splash plays, but I think he still brings more to the defense than Ike does. I think his run support is still pretty strong and his underneath coverage also seems to be pretty good. Remember, when we are not giving up monster plays, this defense is one of the best in the NFL at getting teams off the field. I think Troy still plays a valuable role with that.

[feltdizz]

1) While it is possible that LeBeau may retire after the season, things have not been so bad that it warrants LeBeau being fired within the season. It just isn't that bad.

2) As many posters have pointed out, almost ad nauseum, there have been tweaks made to the defense. There have not been wholesale changes. The reason is because those changes were not warranted. The dumbest thing to do right now would be to completely change the defensive scheme in the middle of a run towards the playoffs.

Now, should things have been changed? Perhaps. Perhaps not. That is certainly debatable, but ultimately fruitless. Will LeBeau retire? Will the reins be handed over to Butler? Will new blood be brought in? Who can say...only time will tell.

As of now, the Steelers are three games above .500 and in control of their own playoff destiny...after the last two seasons of needing help the last week of the season to make the playoffs and not getting it, I welcome the refreshing difference...

I don't think there is one person on here who wants DL fired mid season.

I don't think anyone wants to change defenses mid season.

why would you even suggest such a thing?

[hawaiiansteel]

Jon: A lot of naysayers blame Dick Lebeau for lapses in the defense, I see a lot of poor execution and people not sticking to their assignments. (Dalton's run) How do you see it?

Ed Bouchette: If Dick LeBeau were still playing cornerback, maybe then you could blame him. As I've said, Chuck Noll could do no better with this defense because it does not have enough players.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/s...s/201412090197

[Slapstick]

I don't think there is one person on here who wants DL fired mid season.

I don't think anyone wants to change defenses mid season.

why would you even suggest such a thing?

Why are people calling for his head now? Why are people complaining about "square pegs"? Why are people crying about changing the defense in the middle of the season?

I merely wanted people to think rationally and take a step back and think.

You are not who I had in mind.

[RuthlessBurgher]

I just hope they have something in Shark because W Allen isn't much better than Troy...But he is better at this point.

Will Allen is also a member of the 30+ crew that you want to eliminate from the D. Allen is only one year younger than Troy. Polamalu is 33 (D.O.B. 4/19/1981) and Allen is 32 (D.O.B. 6/17/1982). I'd prefer Troy over Will Allen all day every day until Sharknado is ready to go.

[RuthlessBurgher]

I don't think there is one person on here who wants DL fired mid season.

Oh, I think there's one person...;)

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

Will Allen is also a member of the 30+ crew that you want to eliminate from the D. Allen is only one year younger than Troy. Polamalu is 33 (D.O.B. 4/19/1981) and Allen is 32 (D.O.B. 6/17/1982). I'd prefer Troy over Will Allen all day every day until Sharknado is ready to go.

I'm eliminating both of them...But we could agree to disagree on Wil vs Troy. I believe Allen is better than Troy in pass coverage right now...He has more range. I don't even want Allen play single high but I would take him over Troy single high or Cover 2.

The bigger story is I'm not paying Troy 6 mil with a 8.2 Mil hit in '15 for his play. If he wants to stay he will have to take a cut down to his vet min & he will have to win the starting spot. To be honest...I would insert Shark as much as possible NOW at Troy's expense to see if he is the answer. I love Troy as much as any other fan but he is a liability anything outside of a LB drop. It's in his blood to look to make a play & that will never change. Problem is he just doesn't have the explosion anymore to recover from false steps or getting pulled by the QBs eyes. When you see Troy Polamalu losing on an angle...The end is near. We have been seeing that over the last 2 years. Fans don't want to admit it but Troy is a part along with Ike tied to the decline in the secondary. Clark was another but that was resolved. Watching how poorly the Redskins secondary is playing tells you the Steelers made the right call.

[hawaiiansteel]

James C Wexell @jimwexell -
·
Ike Taylor doubtful but he wont play. James Harrison questionable and I expect him to play.

https://twitter.com/jimwexell