"Players coach"

[Captain Lemming]

Before responding think closely about what I am going to say.

The issue is not that a "players coach" is always black. Tomlin NEVER implied that.

The issue is that "he" does not see himself as a "players coach" and "we" see him as one because of his demographic. He has a lot in common with the players so he must be a players coach.

The thing about Tomlin is that he does not appear all that "chummy" with players. I think he has been almost deliberately aloof in a sense. He came in as a young guy and has purposely tries not to be "your friend" to establish his authority. Unlike Cowher you rarely see him speak affectionately of players. He sounds almost cold. His drill Sargent style that is often made fun of is in my view part of this.

He is not saying a white guy is never called a players coach, or it's racist to call a black coach a players coach.

His point is that demographic is the ONLY reason why we think of "HIM" as a players coach. He is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT (one selfie notwithstanding :)).

People, "I" am black and I thought of him as a players coach FOR THAT VERY REASON until thinking about his comments and his real coaching style.

Comments?

[Eich]

Me personally, I thought he was more of a player's coach than Cowher because of how I've seen him act in practices and on the field. Cowher would spit all over players during a game if they did something he didn't like. I never see Tomlin do that. To me, at times, he ACTS more like one of them than the head coach. And lately he's posting on Social Media - like the players do.

I don't see how it has anything to do with him being black. It's the fact that he was VOTED by the players as someone they'd most like to play for. And for the way he acts. Not for the color of his skin.

[Slapstick]

I never thought he was any more of a players coach than Cowher...

Noll? Every coach is more of a players coach than he was...

[BradshawsHairdresser]

Tomlin insulted

by Ray Fittipaldo
Sept. 29, 2014

Steelers coach Mike Tomlin was asked in an interview with Fox about being referred to as a “Players’ coach.”

Tomlin took offense to the line of questioning and suggested he is called a players’ coach because of his race and his age.

“You know, it doesn’t bother me because I don’t worry too much about what people define me as, you know,” Tomlin said. “But at the same time it’s something that I get tired of addressing or answering over the last eight years because invariably, you know, I think it means something about my age and my race, you know."

Spin it however you like, this is what Tomlin actually said.

[WindyCitySteel]

Pete Carroll is another players coach based solely on the fact that he's young and black.

[Shawn]

There are two reasons I believe people call a coach a players coach. 1) Players like to play for them 2) In a negative light...they instill no discipline...or little discipline.

IMO, Tomlin meets both these criteria. He fields undisciplined teams and he was voted as the #2 coach players want to play for. I don't believe it had anything to do with his demographic.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2014/01/steelers-mike-tomlin-voted-second-head-coach-players-would-like-to-play-for-most/

[feltdizz]

he just wants to be called a coach.

I don't have a problem with it.

[steelsnis]

There are two reasons I believe people call a coach a players coach. 1) Players like to play for them 2) In a negative light...they instill no discipline...or little discipline.

IMO, Tomlin meets both these criteria. He fields undisciplined teams and he was voted as the #2 coach players want to play for. I don't believe it had anything to do with his demographic.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2014/01/steelers-mike-tomlin-voted-second-head-coach-players-would-like-to-play-for-most/

The Steelers were 8-8 for the past two seasons, correct?

MUST BE THE LACK OF DISCIPLINE!!! Except guess what...They were one of the LEAST penalized teams in the entire NFL during the past two years.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/penalties-per-game?date=2014-02-02

They've had a lot of penalties this season THROUGH 4 GAMES and the team is 2-2. Penalties are up all over the league this season. People are jumping on the "undisciplined" bandwagon like it's going out of style! People are crazy.

Also, the Jags are 0-4. They are one of the LEAST penalized teams in the league. Let's not pretend that "lack of discipline" is some great issue here.

[Shawn]

The Steelers were 8-8 for the past two seasons, correct?

MUST BE THE LACK OF DISCIPLINE!!! Except guess what...They were one of the LEAST penalized teams in the entire NFL during the past two years.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/penalties-per-game?date=2014-02-02

They've had a lot of penalties this season THROUGH 4 GAMES and the team is 2-2. Penalties are up all over the league this season. People are jumping on the "undisciplined" bandwagon like it's going out of style! People are crazy.

Also, the Jags are 0-4. They are one of the LEAST penalized teams in the league. Let's not pretend that "lack of discipline" is some great issue here.
First, settle down...just an opinion. I didn't slap your mother. Second, it's not the amount of penalties as much as it is the kind of penalties that I am concerned about. Every team commits a number of penalties most go unnoticed and uncalled. Part of that is bad luck or the inability to disguise the penalty. I'm less worried about that...and more worried about the nonsensical penalties.

Oh and btw Tomlin himself called them an undisciplined team. So, the coach disagrees with you.

[Shawn]

he just wants to be called a coach.

I don't have a problem with it. If he doesn't like the heat maybe he should coach pee wee.

[RuthlessBurgher]

I didn't slap your mother.

If you did, we'd ban your for two weeks. Unless there was an elevator video, of course. In that case...indefinite!

[Shawn]

And let me add something here. If you wish to be in a well paid position with power and authority, recognition and what not...there is a cost. Bosses are rarely popular people. Employees and non-employees alike in their minds can do your job better than you. You will be questioned, gossiped about, and your intentions will be misjudged and gauged through lenses of fear. That's the deal. It's the trade off. For Tomlin, he will get some extra stuff on occasion about his race or age. I'm not crying for him or feeling sorry for him...just the nature of the beast. Again, this is part of the territory and shouldn't be news to him. So, even if this was about his demographic...he needs to be bigger than petty talk...or grumbling amongst us fans. Sure, he can feel free to express himself...but all that does is bring more heat...more spotlight. Pick your battles...be above the nonsense...or get a job less in the spotlight.

[Shawn]

If you did, we'd ban your for two weeks. Unless there was an elevator video, of course. In that case...indefinite! lol...now that is funny.

[Slapstick]

If he doesn't like the heat maybe he should coach pee wee.

We all know that just about every poster on this board would be an epic fail in Tomlin's position...

Let's not pretend that we have any idea of the "heat" NFL coaches deal with....

[squidkid]

i dont get it. if it really doesnt bother him and he really doesnt worry about it then why play the race card and age card?
why wouldnt he simply say, 'listen, i've addressed this players coach label a dozen times over the last 8 years, i'm not addressing it again"

[feltdizz]

If he doesn't like the heat maybe he should coach pee wee.

If you don't like his answer, maybe you can watch pee wee

[feltdizz]

We all know that just about every poster on this board would be an epic fail in Tomlin's position...

Let's not pretend that we have any idea of the "heat" NFL coaches deal with....

exactly...

it's the job he wanted so I don't feel sorry for him but lets not act like coaching is fun. It comes with a ton of stress and puts a lot of stress on the coaches family.

and someone on here said a lot of phone calls coming into a radio show after the loss were focusing on Tomlin's race.

[Shawn]

We all know that just about every poster on this board would be an epic fail in Tomlin's position...

Let's not pretend that we have any idea of the "heat" NFL coaches deal with.... Yeah none of us here know about serious life and death pressure. He coaches a sport...come on.

[Shawn]

exactly...

it's the job he wanted so I don't feel sorry for him but lets not act like coaching is fun. It comes with a ton of stress and puts a lot of stress on the coaches family.

and someone on here said a lot of phone calls coming into a radio show after the loss were focusing on Tomlin's race. Who's job is fun? Who works for the fun of it? But, I doubt it's a job any of us would turn down. Of course, we would be an epic failure in his job as he likely would in many of ours as well. I would suggest many careers have as much pressure as Tomlin does coaching a sport and don't get paid millions of years to do it. I would suggest Police Officers, ER physicians, EMTs, Paramedics, Military all have jobs that are equal or more stressful than Tomlin. They deal with life and death...not a sport and some petty talk about being a players coach. Lets be real here.

[Shawn]

If you don't like his answer, maybe you can watch pee wee Or maybe I can just have an opinion...the same right that you give to Tomlin. You want him to have his right to speak his opinion but not me?

[Shawn]

i dont get it. if it really doesnt bother him and he really doesnt worry about it then why play the race card and age card?
why wouldnt he simply say, 'listen, i've addressed this players coach label a dozen times over the last 8 years, i'm not addressing it again" Because he was being dishonest. It does bother him.

[squidkid]

Who's job is fun? Who works for the fun of it? But, I doubt it's a job any of us would turn down. Of course, we would be an epic failure in his job as he likely would in many of ours as well. I would suggest many careers have as much pressure as Tomlin does coaching a sport and don't get paid millions of years to do it. I would suggest Police Officers, ER physicians, EMTs, Paramedics, Military all have jobs that are equal or more stressful than Tomlin. They deal with life and death...not a sport and some petty talk about being a players coach. Lets be real here.


no doubt.
who here could get fired and not have to work for the rest of their lives and still be living large?
wow, what stress.

[squidkid]

Or maybe I can just have an opinion...the same right that you give to Tomlin. You want him to have his right to speak his opinion but not me?

FYI, white guys cant have opinions

[Shawn]

FYI, white guys cant have opinions Not about these kinds of issues.

[Slapstick]

Yeah none of us here know about serious life and death pressure. He coaches a sport...come on.

For a $10 billion business...come on....

[Slapstick]

Or maybe I can just have an opinion...the same right that you give to Tomlin. You want him to have his right to speak his opinion but not me?

Of course! I'm much more interested in what Tomlin has to say...:p

[feltdizz]

Or maybe I can just have an opinion...the same right that you give to Tomlin. You want him to have his right to speak his opinion but not me?
who is stopping you from giving your opinion?

Just giving my opinion...lol

[Shawn]

For a $10 billion business...come on.... So, being the coach of a 10 billion dollar business is somehow more stressful than running a code on an 8 day old baby? Telling a parent that their newborn just died? What about being shot at? How about knowing that if you make a mistake it doesn't cost a team a loss but someone their life? Don't talk to me about pressure. Don't talk to me about what it takes to run a multi-million dollar business or a multi-million dollar business...as he doesn't do either. He coaches. Is Tomlin's job stressful...sure. But, in the grand scheme of things if he is able to keep it in perspective...it's just opinions and in the end it's just a game. If he is fired tomorrow he is set for life. No one dies. He won't lose "his license" to coach.
So, forgive me if I am not crying a river over the "ignorant racist minds" who call him a players coach. To me, it struck me as petty and weak. And to be honest with you...that is not the picture of get of Tomlin. The reason why I liked him so much early in his career was because of his poise...his ability to be above the talk...a loss...some criticism. He was the picture of stoic and I love that in a head coach. We seen a crack in the armor...and hopefully it was just a momentary weakness. Because, he knows better. Those feelings are something you share to your wife...a friend...not the media.

[Shawn]

Of course! I'm much more interested in what Tomlin has to say...:p Me too to be honest with you. He is much more interesting.

[Slapstick]

So, being the coach of a 10 billion dollar business is somehow more stressful than running a code on an 8 day old baby? Telling a parent that their newborn just died? What about being shot at? How about knowing that if you make a mistake it doesn't cost a team a loss but someone their life? Don't talk to me about pressure. Don't talk to me about what it takes to run a multi-million dollar business or a multi-million dollar business...as he doesn't do either. He coaches. Is Tomlin's job stressful...sure. But, in the grand scheme of things if he is able to keep it in perspective...it's just opinions and in the end it's just a game. If he is fired tomorrow he is set for life. No one dies. He won't lose "his license" to coach.
So, forgive me if I am not crying a river over the "ignorant racist minds" who call him a players coach. To me, it struck me as petty and weak. And to be honest with you...that is not the picture of get of Tomlin. The reason why I liked him so much early in his career was because of his poise...his ability to be above the talk...a loss...some criticism. He was the picture of stoic and I love that in a head coach. We seen a crack in the armor...and hopefully it was just a momentary weakness. Because, he knows better. Those feelings are something you share to your wife...a friend...not the media.

Ah, I see...

So, you didn't like his honesty...

I didn't think it was petty or weak...he was asked about it and answered honestly...

For someone who spoke out about standing in judgement of another human being, you seem to have changed your tune in this instance...

[feltdizz]

Ah, I see...

So, you didn't like his honesty...

I didn't think it was petty or weak...he was asked about it and answered honestly...

For someone who spoke out about standing in judgement of another human being, you seem to have changed your tune in this instance...
yep, spot on.

[Shawn]

Ah, I see...

So, you didn't like his honesty...

I didn't think it was petty or weak...he was asked about it and answered honestly...

For someone who spoke out about standing in judgement of another human being, you seem to have changed your tune in this instance... Nice tactic. Don't address the solid rebuttal of your argument. But, I'll play...no I didn't like the content of his honesty. I think I have made that very clear. To me it appears weak, whiny, and petty. I believe there is a better venue for him to vent if he feels frustrated. If there were some racial issues, he just magnified them. He showed he can be shook by a simple line of questioning. He lied when he said it didn't bother him. Right or wrong, I think a little less of the man after he said it. I am entitled to my opinion, you to yours.

[Captain Lemming]

Spin it however you like, this is what Tomlin actually said.

Dude you miss the point.
WE KNOW that is what he said. I never said he didn't.
There is no spin.

Back to my point. Tomlin actually does not act like a players coach. THAT is why he said what he said.

Dick Vermeil....players coach....old white dude.
But Vermiel hugs his players, cries with them, loves them like family.
Tomlin ain't saying that those types are NOT viewed as players coaches.
He is not saying it is wrong to call a black coach a players coach.

What makes HIM a players coach?
He does not ACT like one. THATS the point

Shawn, you said "players like to play for him".
Players like to play for a winner.
They give BB a discount to play for him.
I guaranty you the more he loses the less players are going to want to play for Tomlin.

Shawn you are a reasonable guy, I really am surprised you missed my point. Let me try again, I'm sure I can reach you.

Im a a black guy from Hawaii.....EVERYBODY thinks I love Obama.
That is not racist, but do you honestly think for one minute it has nothing to do with my race?

Heck, other BLACK PEOPLE make that same assumption.

NOTHING I have ever said or done would lead someone to that conclusion.
I never voted for the man, or anybody and could care less.

Tomlin is LESS CHUMMY, not putting his arms around players, never expressing much of any emotion about players. Heck players don't express that much emotion for him. He is cold and impersonal even in how he talks about them.

Think about it, honestly tell me I'm wrong.
If he LOOKED Like Dick Vermeil, how often is Tomlin called a "players coach".

[Slapstick]

Nice tactic. Don't address the solid rebuttal of your argument. But, I'll play...no I didn't like the content of his honesty. I think I have made that very clear. To me it appears weak, whiny, and petty. I believe there is a better venue for him to vent if he feels frustrated. If there were some racial issues, he just magnified them. He showed he can be shook by a simple line of questioning. He lied when he said it didn't bother him. Right or wrong, I think a little less of the man after he said it. I am entitled to my opinion, you to yours.

Oh, if there had been a solid rebuttal, I would have addressed it...

At any rate, you are correct, we are entitled to our own opinions...

[Captain Lemming]

Nice tactic. Don't address the solid rebuttal of your argument. But, I'll play...no I didn't like the content of his honesty. I think I have made that very clear. To me it appears weak, whiny, and petty. I believe there is a better venue for him to vent if he feels frustrated. If there were some racial issues, he just magnified them. He showed he can be shook by a simple line of questioning. He lied when he said it didn't bother him. Right or wrong, I think a little less of the man after he said it. I am entitled to my opinion, you to yours.

I agree it served no good purpose. But I think this may have been a long time coming. But once race comes up people stop hearing each other. So it was bound to be misunderstood so he should not have gone there.

[Slapstick]

I agree it served no good purpose. But I think this may have been a long time coming. But once race comes up people stop hearing each other. So it was bound to be misunderstood so he should not have gone there.

Yep. As I mentioned before, as soon as a black man mentions anything about race, he is immediately subjected to being invalidated and/or discredited...

[Captain Lemming]

Yep. As I mentioned before, as soon as a black man mentions anything about race, he is immediately subjected to being invalidated and/or discredited...

Sadly it often works both ways. It is difficult for people to see a perspective they have not experienced.

[Shawn]

Yep. As I mentioned before, as soon as a black man mentions anything about race, he is immediately subjected to being invalidated and/or discredited... Personally, I have no issues with a black man mentioning race issues if it has clear merit. If a white man mentions anything about race he is a bigot. That is the world we live in.

[Chadman]

The more the argument goes on, the less I think it matters.

Who cares?

For mine, Tomlin lost his cool for a short while. He's under pressure. So be it. We can't all be Ice all the time.

Chalk it up as the pressure starting to show a bit. You don't think, for 1 second, that Tomlin KNOWS that his race will ALWAYS be an issue, simply because of the Rooney Rule & being the coach of the Steelers?

I'm betting he tries everything possible to be as 'grey' in his personality as he can be. I agree with Lemming, I think he goes out of his way to appear to 'not be' a players coach. He is rather impersonal. It's always "men" this, and "next man up" that. When was the last time he said "I love these guys like brothers"?

Being called a 'players coach' is a PERCEPTION often brought about by the media. Outside of a poll saying he's the 2nd most popular coach for players wanting to play for (which could as easily be explained as players like success), and 1 selfie with James Harrison, where is the overiding evidence that Tomlin is buddy-buddy with the players?

Why do we assume he is a 'players coach'?

Ask yourself that 1 question.

[Captain Lemming]

Personally, I have no issues with a black man mentioning race issues if it has clear merit. If a white man mentions anything about race he is a bigot. That is the world we live in.

However, ones personal experience and resulting world view can color ones definition of "merit". We can easily be dismissive of a POV that we have never experienced.

[Shawn]

This is my last post on the subject...and after you can have fun with it. I can see things from other peoples POV...it's called empathy. And even if I haven't walked in a black man's shoes per se, I have been on the other side of bigotry. I know what it's like to feel prejudice, ignorance, judgment, and even told because of "what I am" I am not welcome in their place of employment. I know what it's like to face so much bigotry they draw up laws and special government organizations to protect your rights. It's ok for "my kind" to be a punch line...there is no sympathy. It's not hard for me to feel empathy, compassion and understanding for another race, sexual orientation, religious group or what not. How much sympathy would you have for me if I told you because of my history with alcoholism that I was told I wasn't fit (though I was years sober) to practice in their place of employment? Or that I have been gossiped about, mistrusted, rejected, harassed etc even though I never hurt a patient...never have even had a valid complaint from a patient nearly 10 years of practice. You probably wouldn't have much sympathy for me...because of public ignorance alcoholism is a choice in their minds. It's not a progressive and fatal disease process. They can't possibly understand unless they are one of us. Do you know how often I complain about it? This is the first time I have mentioned it. I don't whine about it or cry about it. It's part of me...I get knocked down or face ignorance I move on. Who is the apologist for the recovering alcoholic who faces ignorant comments and prejudice? I don't see too many Slappys looking to march for our rights. I don't even try to correct the ignorance anymore. I work hard, go to meetings, try to be a good father and husband...and I just live. And Slappy is right...I'm not a big fan of judging anyone...but this one really got my goat. I know I am the only inconsistent hypocrite in the room and all...but it really did get under my skin. Dizz will assume it got my goat because "a white man wants the black man to stay quiet". That's not even close to being it. I suppose it's because Tomlin has a good life, with a good job, makes millions of dollars a year, has his health and the health of his family. Many people don't have those things, experience REAL prejudice and don't complain...especially about something that may or may not meant what he thought it meant. So there it is...all I will say on the subject.

[Chadman]

I think we all take critisism on here a little too personally. We make it a little too personal.

I can tell you from experience that Shawn is a compassionate, empathic man. I can honestly tell you that he does try his best to see a point of view other than his own.

Just because his point of view is different from others, I don't think gives the opportunity for some others to belittle his opinion.

To be fair, on this one, I'm not sure I agree with you Shawn- but I'm not about to call you out on it.

I like Lemming's point. I think it's well reasoned.

Maybe if we all stopped trying to out-do each other for a little while on the smart-ass comments....


But then, I guess we are just coming off a loss to TB...

[Shawn]

I think we all take critisism on here a little too personally. We make it a little too personal.

I can tell you from experience that Shawn is a compassionate, empathic man. I can honestly tell you that he does try his best to see a point of view other than his own.

Just because his point of view is different from others, I don't think gives the opportunity for some others to belittle his opinion.

To be fair, on this one, I'm not sure I agree with you Shawn- but I'm not about to call you out on it.

I like Lemming's point. I think it's well reasoned.

Maybe if we all stopped trying to out-do each other for a little while on the smart-ass comments....


But then, I guess we are just coming off a loss to TB... I appreciate that Chad...and you know I have the highest regard for you. My friends and I often disagree on different topics...actually did this morning about domestic abuse where women beat men. I'm very ok with you disagreeing with me. I enjoy tough subjects. With that said, racism, or prejudice of any kind is a touchy subject for many. I think the frustration with the Tampa Bay game and the Tomlin comments brought up some brewing resentments on both sides of the fence. When a black man sees the news in Ferguson he feels certain things...a white man might feel something different. But, I know there has been much brewing in the media in general to stir up old feelings for many. It can leak out into forums such as these.

[Slapstick]

This is my last post on the subject...and after you can have fun with it. I can see things from other peoples POV...it's called empathy. And even if I haven't walked in a black man's shoes per se, I have been on the other side of bigotry. I know what it's like to feel prejudice, ignorance, judgment, and even told because of "what I am" I am not welcome in their place of employment. I know what it's like to face so much bigotry they draw up laws and special government organizations to protect your rights. It's ok for "my kind" to be a punch line...there is no sympathy. It's not hard for me to feel empathy, compassion and understanding for another race, sexual orientation, religious group or what not. How much sympathy would you have for me if I told you because of my history with alcoholism that I was told I wasn't fit (though I was years sober) to practice in their place of employment? Or that I have been gossiped about, mistrusted, rejected, harassed etc even though I never hurt a patient...never have even had a valid complaint from a patient nearly 10 years of practice. You probably wouldn't have much sympathy for me...because of public ignorance alcoholism is a choice in their minds. It's not a progressive and fatal disease process. They can't possibly understand unless they are one of us. Do you know how often I complain about it? This is the first time I have mentioned it. I don't whine about it or cry about it. It's part of me...I get knocked down or face ignorance I move on. Who is the apologist for the recovering alcoholic who faces ignorant comments and prejudice? I don't see too many Slappys looking to march for our rights. I don't even try to correct the ignorance anymore. I work hard, go to meetings, try to be a good father and husband...and I just live. And Slappy is right...I'm not a big fan of judging anyone...but this one really got my goat. I know I am the only inconsistent hypocrite in the room and all...but it really did get under my skin. Dizz will assume it got my goat because "a white man wants the black man to stay quiet". That's not even close to being it. I suppose it's because Tomlin has a good life, with a good job, makes millions of dollars a year, has his health and the health of his family. Many people don't have those things, experience REAL prejudice and don't complain...especially about something that may or may not meant what he thought it meant. So there it is...all I will say on the subject.

I think that we also tend to fill in the gaps we perceive in others' statements with our own sentiments, or at least what we think the other party is feeling...we're almost all of us guilty....

On this board, others have accused me of thinking I'm "better" or "above" other posters...and, if you can find a post where I actually said something like that without an accompanying smiley face, I will sincerely and unreservedly apologize....

But, I don't think you would find that if you looked...

People get hypersensitive and hypercritical on here after a particularly bad loss...also, the general tone of the board trends to the negative side after a non-playoff season....apparently, this is all cumulative...

[feltdizz]

This is my last post on the subject...and after you can have fun with it. I can see things from other peoples POV...it's called empathy. And even if I haven't walked in a black man's shoes per se, I have been on the other side of bigotry. I know what it's like to feel prejudice, ignorance, judgment, and even told because of "what I am" I am not welcome in their place of employment. I know what it's like to face so much bigotry they draw up laws and special government organizations to protect your rights. It's ok for "my kind" to be a punch line...there is no sympathy. It's not hard for me to feel empathy, compassion and understanding for another race, sexual orientation, religious group or what not. How much sympathy would you have for me if I told you because of my history with alcoholism that I was told I wasn't fit (though I was years sober) to practice in their place of employment? Or that I have been gossiped about, mistrusted, rejected, harassed etc even though I never hurt a patient...never have even had a valid complaint from a patient nearly 10 years of practice. You probably wouldn't have much sympathy for me...because of public ignorance alcoholism is a choice in their minds. It's not a progressive and fatal disease process. They can't possibly understand unless they are one of us. Do you know how often I complain about it? This is the first time I have mentioned it. I don't whine about it or cry about it. It's part of me...I get knocked down or face ignorance I move on. Who is the apologist for the recovering alcoholic who faces ignorant comments and prejudice? I don't see too many Slappys looking to march for our rights. I don't even try to correct the ignorance anymore. I work hard, go to meetings, try to be a good father and husband...and I just live. And Slappy is right...I'm not a big fan of judging anyone...but this one really got my goat. I know I am the only inconsistent hypocrite in the room and all...but it really did get under my skin. Dizz will assume it got my goat because "a white man wants the black man to stay quiet". That's not even close to being it. I suppose it's because Tomlin has a good life, with a good job, makes millions of dollars a year, has his health and the health of his family. Many people don't have those things, experience REAL prejudice and don't complain...especially about something that may or may not meant what he thought it meant. So there it is...all I will say on the subject.

My father chose the bottle over me for 20 or so years... I watched countless families get torn apart after the Steel Mill's closed because their fathers chose the bottle instead of their families. It's a tough situation and you are correct. No one is going to march for alcoholism because people see it as a choice. My father was the butt of jokes at every family function. When I got older I found out why my dad chose the bottle and I'm no longer mad at him for it. However, at the time I couldn't march for him or vouch for him. I loved him, but he loved that bottle more than he loved me.

He is 20+ years sober and it's been great. He woke up one day and said enough is enough. Our relationship has been great ever since. But I can't march for alcoholics... I don't think their rights have been violated.

As far as Tomlin is concerned. Sure, he has a great job and people envy him for it but that doesn't mean anyone can say something to him. He is still a man with feelings and sometimes hearing "stop complaining, the president is black" really gets under a black man's skin.

I think the main reason people get so frustrated is because the person saying "stop complaining" is laying out a list of complaints at the same time. LOL...

[Shawn]

My father chose the bottle over me for 20 or so years... I watched countless families get torn apart after the Steel Mill's closed because their fathers chose the bottle instead of their families. It's a tough situation and you are correct. No one is going to march for alcoholism because people see it as a choice. My father was the butt of jokes at every family function. When I got older I found out why my dad chose the bottle and I'm no longer mad at him for it. However, at the time I couldn't march for him or vouch for him. I loved him, but he loved that bottle more than he loved me.

He is 20+ years sober and it's been great. He woke up one day and said enough is enough. Our relationship has been great ever since. But I can't march for alcoholics... I don't think their rights have been violated.

As far as Tomlin is concerned. Sure, he has a great job and people envy him for it but that doesn't mean anyone can say something to him. He is still a man with feelings and sometimes hearing "stop complaining, the president is black" really gets under a black man's skin.

I think the main reason people get so frustrated is because the person saying "stop complaining" is laying out a list of complaints at the same time. LOL...

I remembered that you were a child of an alcoholic. You had mentioned it in passing. I suppose the wreckage we have caused keeps us from complaining about the whispers, the jokes, the bigotry and ignorance. Many of us still carry a weight of guilt from those years. Few see what the science shows us...that about 10% of the population have an allergic-like response to mood altering chemicals that causes an OCD disorder that manifests as craving. And almost always it takes a bottom, and getting treatment of some sort to get into remission from a progressive and fatal disease. The population believes its about will power, morality, character and sees you as a lesser if you have had these issues. If that were true, I wouldn't treat preachers, nuns, CEOs, nurses, pilots, docs and others who has displayed tremendous will power and morality in other areas of their life. These are not all individuals deficient on will power and ethics. What they see is what you see...a loved one falling in love the bottle or the drug. They see them choosing that over their families. They have no sympathy as they have their own experience, their own perception and their own pain. I can attest that alcoholics and drug addicts rights have been and are violated on a daily basis. At best they are those poor souls...at worst they are slugs of the planet in many peoples eyes. Even for those in active recovery, they have a hard time finding quality work, going to a soccer game without whispers from the other parents. Am I asking for sympathy and understanding? No. I don't expect it. I accept these as facts of life. I have accepted this as my reality and I make the best of it. I try to find a calling within my own experience and pain.

[Shawn]

Sorry, as I will go back on my word and make an additional comment on this subject. As for your comments about what "gets under a black mans skin". I can see that. I can understand it because I feel the same way on the other side of the fence. I feel like we are silenced and shamed for speaking out. How many white people in public discussion have mentioned a cop in Ferguson being tried and convicted in the court of public opinion before all the facts were laid out? I can tell you what they are saying behind closed doors after they look over their shoulder to make sure the "coast is clear". That's not right either. If there is to be change, there has to be open communications on both sides of the fence. So, I'm ok with Tomlin voicing his opinion on a very gray area if he sees fit, but only if it goes both ways.

As for Ferguson and the frustration both sides feel from these events...that cop may be a racist douche who killed a black man in cold blood. Or maybe he was attacked and beaten by a much larger man trying to go for his gun. The fact is we don't know...yet people are trying to burn Ferguson to the ground. Trying to get into the minds of these people I must assume there is some legitimate distrust of that police force. I must assume that these tensions have been building for some legitimate reasons and they want blood. As a white man what I see is people who are using violence and mayhem to instill fear and intimidation without knowing all the facts. What I see are images that further engrain preconceived notions that some white people have about the black race. It further engrains fear some whites have of blacks. No white person will say that to you...why? Because if we express these feelings (something you want to protect for Tomlin) then we are labeled a bigot and a racist.

In order for there to be change in hearts and minds of men there has to be open discourse. There also has to be white people holding other white people accountable, and black people holding black people accountable. I know this is easy for me to say...but if the black community continues to hold onto resentments and act on them...nothing changes. If white people allow closet racist talk to go on...nothing changes.

[Slapstick]

Unfortunately, the black community isn't holding onto past resentments in most cases...there are very real and justified current resentments....

As a society, we have to stop giving an entire demographic reasons to feel resentful...

[BradshawsHairdresser]

I’ve thought of Tomlin as a “players’ coach”…and it has nothing to do with his race or his age (I considered Cowher a “players’ coach,” and would call Pete Carroll one, too).

MT bristles at the label…but if the shoe fits…


When your players are not afraid to show up for team flights glassy-eyed and reeking of pot? You might be a players’ coach.

When you have to take “selfies” with the big name players, you might be a players’ coach.

When surveys of the NFL players show you at the top of the list of coaches they would like to play for? You might be a players’ coach.

When you “accidently” stick your foot over the sideline, thus impeding the progress of an opposing player…and then, when you are caught, you put on a big, stupid grin? You might be a players’ coach.

When your idea of “cracking down” is banning rookies from the ping pong table? You might be a players’ coach.

When you say you’re going to “unleash hell” and no one can see any real difference, you might be a players’ coach.

When you won’t give a fine or a benching for illegal TD celebrations, but leave any discipline up to the players, you might be a players’ coach.

When you excuse a player from practice because he is angry about being fined by the league, you might be a players’ coach.

When your players often show up for games undisciplined, unfocused and unprepared? You might be a players’ coach.

If the label “players’ coach” never bothered you until you started getting a lot of heat for your team underperforming? You might be a players’ coach.

[hawaiiansteel]

When you won’t give a fine or a benching for illegal TD celebrations, but leave any discipline up to the players, you might be a players’ coach.



https://i.imgflip.com/connp.jpg

[BradshawsHairdresser]

https://i.imgflip.com/connp.jpg

Maybe they ought to enlarge that to make a big poster and hang it up in the locker room this week...

[RuthlessBurgher]

I’ve thought of Tomlin as a “players’ coach”…and it has nothing to do with his race or his age (I considered Cowher a “players’ coach,” and would call Pete Carroll one, too).

MT bristles at the label…but if the shoe fits…


When your players are not afraid to show up for team flights glassy-eyed and reeking of pot? You might be a players’ coach.

When you have to take “selfies” with the big name players, you might be a players’ coach.

When surveys of the NFL players show you at the top of the list of coaches they would like to play for? You might be a players’ coach.

When you “accidently” stick your foot over the sideline, thus impeding the progress of an opposing player…and then, when you are caught, you put on a big, stupid grin? You might be a players’ coach.

When your idea of “cracking down” is banning rookies from the ping pong table? You might be a players’ coach.

When you say you’re going to “unleash hell” and no one can see any real difference, you might be a players’ coach.

When you won’t give a fine or a benching for illegal TD celebrations, but leave any discipline up to the players, you might be a players’ coach.

When you excuse a player from practice because he is angry about being fined by the league, you might be a players’ coach.

When your players often show up for games undisciplined, unfocused and unprepared? You might be a players’ coach.

If the label “players’ coach” never bothered you until you started getting a lot of heat for your team underperforming? You might be a players’ coach.

You better watch out, or this guy might sue you for copyright infringement...

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Jeff+Foxworthy+2011+Redneck+Rally+Rocketown+gp6HnY yZs7ul.jpg