Shazier vid (with dope music, so crank it up)

[sick beats]

It's sure gonna be fun to watch this guy develop. They say his football IQ is off the chart. And the dope jams playing with this vid is ILL.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmT5sX7G3xk

[birtikidis]

Other than the music, great vid. I'm excited about this kid.

[squidkid]

agreed, the guy singing does sound like a dope

[skyhawk]

1:20 reminds me of Troy. Only Troy can make that type of play in the NFL.

[BradshawsHairdresser]

1:20 reminds me of Troy. Only Troy can make that type of play in the NFL.

Not anymore!:)

[DukieBoy]

It's sure gonna be fun to watch this guy develop. They say his football IQ is off the chart. And the dope jams playing with this vid is ILL.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmT5sX7G3xk

Video was good. Thanks for the heads-up to mute the noise.

[flippy]

Every time I watch Shazier, I think he looks like a S instead of a LB. Wonder if the Steelers will ask him to bulk up and I wonder how that will impact his speed?

[Coolie Man]

The way he runs and tackles reminds me of Carnell Lake.

[Iron City Inc.]

Impressive video.
His ability to tackle is textbook. Wrap up n get the man on the ground. He even breaks down quick which is impressive.
Lots of guys time fast but he flashes that ability to play extremely fast.
Now what we don't see in this video is him taking false steps. That ability to correctly read and react is one of two keys that I think will decide how good this guy could be. Should he be able to properly n quickly read and react for us as he did at OSU the sky's the limit. The 2nd key is the play of the dl in front of him. If and it's a big if we get solid play up front we could see something special here right away.
Right now its only potential. But there is a lot of potential there.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Every time I watch Shazier, I think he looks like a S instead of a LB. Wonder if the Steelers will ask him to bulk up and I wonder how that will impact his speed?

He did bulk up to 237 for his pro day (which was about 15 lbs. heavier than his playing weight at OSU) and he BLAZED his 40 time at 237 at his pro day (4.36???). For comparison's sake, the top WR in the draft, Sammy Watkins, who Buffalo traded next year's #1 pick to move up to get, ran a 4.43 at the combine.

[Sugar]

I wonder who the fastest LB in the league is? RS should be in that conversation, I would think.

[AzStillers1989]

Wow, after watching that I can see the excitement for this guy. One thing this video showed time and time again was his ability to tackle. ALso noticed he was not afraid to hit the guy and wrap him up every time. Very excited to see what he looks like against NFL players and how much he can develop. Certainly , from what this shows, he has the POTENTIAL to be a top 5 LB in this league. And now with Peezy as a coach, man I am very excited for our LBers.

NFLN just showed the 2005 Steelers episode of Americas game last night. now I know I was extremely drunk but I started choking up when watching it and remembering the intensity he brought to that team and leadership he displayed.

[SidSmythe]

Great in open spaces and has ability to AVOID blocks with speed and agility.
My only concern is will he be able to shed BIG blockers.

[sick beats]

He did bulk up to 237 for his pro day (which was about 15 lbs. heavier than his playing weight at OSU) and he BLAZED his 40 time at 237 at his pro day (4.36???). For comparison's sake, the top WR in the draft, Sammy Watkins, who Buffalo traded next year's #1 pick to move up to get, ran a 4.43 at the combine.

Good point. I worry a little that he does appear to look more like a S than ILB. But if he plays around 240 lbs, it's shouldn't be a problem.

[sick beats]

Wow, after watching that I can see the excitement for this guy. One thing this video showed time and time again was his ability to tackle. ALso noticed he was not afraid to hit the guy and wrap him up every time. Very excited to see what he looks like against NFL players and how much he can develop. Certainly , from what this shows, he has the POTENTIAL to be a top 5 LB in this league. And now with Peezy as a coach, man I am very excited for our LBers.

NFLN just showed the 2005 Steelers episode of Americas game last night. now I know I was extremely drunk but I started choking up when watching it and remembering the intensity he brought to that team and leadership he displayed.

I watched a lot of the 2000's Steelers stuff yesterday as well. I loved the comradely of Ward, Bettis, Ben...special time, for sure. The 2005 season may be the most memorable in Steeler history. If not the most, it certainly is right up there. Having to run the table the last 4 games of the regular season and then win on the road, as the dog, every game in the play offs, and pulling it off? Amazing. The revenge tour. Cinci, Indy, Denver....all on the road.

[hawaiiansteel]

Video was good. Thanks for the heads-up to mute the noise.

I think it's referred to as "dope music" because you have to smoke a lot of dope to appreciate it...;)

[AzStillers1989]

I watched a lot of the 2000's Steelers stuff yesterday as well. I loved the comradely of Ward, Bettis, Ben...special time, for sure. The 2005 season may be the most memorable in Steeler history. If not the most, it certainly is right up there. Having to run the table the last 4 games of the regular season and then win on the road, as the dog, every game in the play offs, and pulling it off? Amazing. The revenge tour. Cinci, Indy, Denver....all on the road.
It will always be the most memorable for me because it was the first Super Bowl winning season I experienced in my life. I was just 6 years old when we lost to the cowboys in '95 so even getting to the big game didn't mean much at that time in my life . I agree with the way we had to do it and it being special. From the bears game to get win 1 of 8 to the tackle by Ben in the Indy playoff game. There were just so many things that went right and plays that were made to get us that 5th Lombardi.

[sick beats]

It will always be the most memorable for me because it was the first Super Bowl winning season I experienced in my life. I was just 6 years old when we lost to the cowboys in '95 so even getting to the big game didn't mean much at that time in my life . I agree with the way we had to do it and it being special. From the bears game to get win 1 of 8 to the tackle by Ben in the Indy playoff game. There were just so many things that went right and plays that were made to get us that 5th Lombardi.

Yea, some powerful memories. So much to over come, making it feel so rewarding.

[steelz09]

He did bulk up to 237 for his pro day (which was about 15 lbs. heavier than his playing weight at OSU) and he BLAZED his 40 time at 237 at his pro day (4.36???). For comparison's sake, the top WR in the draft, Sammy Watkins, who Buffalo traded next year's #1 pick to move up to get, ran a 4.43 at the combine.

His speed is very impressive.. but his speed won't do much good if 330lb guards pile drive him into the turf.

[Slapstick]

Good point. That is why the Steelers drafted Tuitt and McCullers to go along with Heyward...also, why the Steelers signed Cam Thomas and McClendon put his weight back on...

[SteelerOfDeVille]

Every time I watch Shazier, I think he looks like a S instead of a LB. Wonder if the Steelers will ask him to bulk up and I wonder how that will impact his speed?
i'm hoping they'll try to Urlacher him... keep fatties in front of him and let him cause chaos

[SteelerOfDeVille]

Great in open spaces and has ability to AVOID blocks with speed and agility.
My only concern is will he be able to shed BIG blockers.
nail, meet hammer. To me, this is the ONLY concern. If the play is run AT him, can he stack and shed. NFL plays are run with the precision of if the defender runs around, he WON'T make a play.

If I'm the opposing team, i run right directly AT him. Let's hope McClendon requires a double team this year - might help free someone near the LOS to make plays run at him - I suspect we'll see a bunch early on.

[steelz09]

nail, meet hammer. To me, this is the ONLY concern. If the play is run AT him, can he stack and shed. NFL plays are run with the precision of if the defender runs around, he WON'T make a play.

If I'm the opposing team, i run right directly AT him. Let's hope McClendon requires a double team this year - might help free someone near the LOS to make plays run at him - I suspect we'll see a bunch early on.


Well said... Clearly, Shazier is a "run and hit" (Tomlinism) LB. The video reminds me a bit of Polamalu.... My concern is the same as others... how often does a 3-4 ILB get the ability to do that without someone laying a hand on him in the process? No matter what, he will need to stack and shed. He can't simply just run around blocks or play a freelancing type role. Like you said, teams will attack him by running straight at him.... not by running sweeps which is where he can utilize his "run and hit" attributes.

On a side note, we REALLY need better play at the NT position to keep guards off of him as much as possible.

[Coolie Man]

Much of this nervous bs applies to ANY inside LB. Lol

[Captain Lemming]

His speed is very impressive.. but his speed won't do much good if 330lb guards pile drive him into the turf.
Happened with Lloyd too.......he was "not too shabby" don't ya think?

[K Train]

Hes good in traffic though, guys like Ernie Simms and Alec Ogletree are very straight line fast but when you get a hand on them they are taken out of the play. He is

1) Very hard to get a hand on
2) not useless if you do, able to slip out/around blocks
3) Has a knack for weaving through traffic

It was said that the steelers coveted Mychal Kendricks out of cal a few years back....hes very fast and good in traffic, but shaziers speed is superior and from what ive seen so is his ability to diagnose a play and move around even when theres a bunch of bodies around.

[steelz09]

Happened with Lloyd too.......he was "not too shabby" don't ya think?

He was good.... but you are old enough to remember that Lloyd was an OLB right?

[steelz09]

Much of this nervous bs applies to ANY inside LB. Lol

I disagree.... I never had a concern about Patrick Willis' ability to shed blocks on the inside. I wouldn't have as much concern with CJ Mosley's ability to shed blocks on the inside. I had different worries about Mosley but that wasn't one of them. Each LB is different. I am going to use the "show me" approach with Shazier and his ability to shed blocks on the inside. I know he'll be fine playing in space...

[Slapstick]

He was good.... but you are old enough to remember that Lloyd was an OLB right?

Any LB can get buried by a 330 lb lineman on a running play...

[Coolie Man]

Any LB can get buried by a 330 lb lineman on a running play...

Exactly........!

[K Train]

I disagree.... I never had a concern about Patrick Willis' ability to shed blocks on the inside. I wouldn't have as much concern with CJ Mosley's ability to shed blocks on the inside. I had different worries about Mosley but that wasn't one of them. Each LB is different. I am going to use the "show me" approach with Shazier and his ability to shed blocks on the inside. I know he'll be fine playing in space...

you what patrick willis' most valuable atribute against the run is?

Answer: His speed

Shazier vs Willis physically is a very interesting debate

Willis
6'1" 242 lbs
Shazier
6'1" 238 lbs

4 pounds lol

Patrick Willis vs Ryan Shazier
4.52 vs 4.38 40 yard dash
39 vs 42 vertical jumo
119 vs 130 Broad jump
7.23 VS 6.91 3 cone
4.46 VS 4.21 Shuttle

Willis was not just a hammer against the run blowing up 330 pound guards....hes a nightmare to get a hand on and his football instincts are tremendous. When you watch shazier he is very willis-esque especially on plays where hes not involved in directly on the tackle...hes constantly in pursuit of the play

He is also a TFL monster for that same reason. I think he had 17 and 23 in his last 2 years, not sure i ever remember a LB having that many TFLs over 2 seasons that wasnt really used much as an edge rusher.

[Oviedo]

you what patrick willis' most valuable atribute against the run is?

Answer: His speed

Shazier vs Willis physically is a very interesting debate

Willis
6'1" 242 lbs
Shazier
6'1" 238 lbs

4 pounds lol

Patrick Willis vs Ryan Shazier
4.52 vs 4.38 40 yard dash
39 vs 42 vertical jumo
119 vs 130 Broad jump
7.23 VS 6.91 3 cone
4.46 VS 4.21 Shuttle

Willis was not just a hammer against the run blowing up 330 pound guards....hes a nightmare to get a hand on and his football instincts are tremendous. When you watch shazier he is very willis-esque especially on plays where hes not involved in directly on the tackle...hes constantly in pursuit of the play

He is also a TFL monster for that same reason. I think he had 17 and 23 in his last 2 years, not sure i ever remember a LB having that many TFLs over 2 seasons that wasnt really used much as an edge rusher.

.....but Shazier was selected by Tomlin so no way he will ever be as good as Willis.:stirpot Just like Timmons. Any guy who can lead his team in tackles, sacks and INTs in a single season is just a plain bad pick.

[K Train]

.....but Shazier was selected by Tomlin so no way he will ever be as good as Willis.:stirpot Just like Timmons. Any guy who can lead his team in tackles, sacks and INTs in a single season is just a plain bad pick.

I hear ya....he'll never be able to do anything of value even though at this stage he smoked willis in both production and measurables

[sick beats]

Happened with Lloyd too.......he was "not too shabby" don't ya think?

But Lloyd was an OLB and I did see him get buried by OTs, like in the Super Bowl when they sent Larry Allen at him. There is simply no way a 230 lb LB can stand up to a 330 lber coming directly at him. It's just physics.

[sick beats]

.....but Shazier was selected by Tomlin so no way he will ever be as good as Willis.:stirpot Just like Timmons. Any guy who can lead his team in tackles, sacks and INTs in a single season is just a plain bad pick.

If Shazier is to prove worthy of his draft slot, he will have to be at least as good as Willis.

[K Train]

If Shazier is to prove worthy of his draft slot, he will have to be at least as good as Willis.
At least as good as the best MLB in the league huh?

Guess he has to at LEAST win DROY like willis and kuechley

[RuthlessBurgher]

If Shazier is to prove worthy of his draft slot, he will have to be at least as good as Willis.

or some combination of Ray Lewis, Mike Singletary, Jack Lambert, Dick Butkus, and Ray Nitschke all rolled into one body. ;)

[Oviedo]

or some combination of Ray Lewis, Mike Singletary, Jack Lambert, Dick Butkus, and Ray Nitschke all rolled into one body. ;)

Anything less would make inventing another excuse for ripping Tomlin to hard

[sick beats]

Anything less would make inventing another excuse for ripping Tomlin to hard

If you are a top 15 pick in the draft as an ILB, you better be really good.

[K Train]

If you are a first round pick at any position you better be really good, no?

[steelz09]

you what patrick willis' most valuable atribute against the run is?

Answer: His speed

Shazier vs Willis physically is a very interesting debate

Willis
6'1" 242 lbs
Shazier
6'1" 238 lbs

4 pounds lol

Patrick Willis vs Ryan Shazier
4.52 vs 4.38 40 yard dash
39 vs 42 vertical jumo
119 vs 130 Broad jump
7.23 VS 6.91 3 cone
4.46 VS 4.21 Shuttle

Willis was not just a hammer against the run blowing up 330 pound guards....hes a nightmare to get a hand on and his football instincts are tremendous. When you watch shazier he is very willis-esque especially on plays where hes not involved in directly on the tackle...hes constantly in pursuit of the play

He is also a TFL monster for that same reason. I think he had 17 and 23 in his last 2 years, not sure i ever remember a LB having that many TFLs over 2 seasons that wasnt really used much as an edge rusher.

Willis best attribute against the run isn't his speed. It's the fact that he... like Farrior had all the attributes (including instincts) to play the inside. In college, he could take on a block, shed and still make the tackle. He was a proven commodity in that regard. I'm not convinced that Shazier can do that... yet.

"4 pounds lol"

This is just ignorant. Stop reading the NFL.com combine stats page and do some further resource. He gained a lot of weight to get up to 238. He's never played at that weight. He's said that in several interviews. The NFL scouts told him he needed to put on that weight and to keep it on. Thankfully for us... he didn't lose any speed in the process. Trying to indicate that he's been playing at 238 is just plain inaccurate.

[steelz09]

If you are a first round pick at any position you better be really good, no?

Yes but certainly positions are valued higher than others. I think that is why he specifically said ILB.

[steelz09]

At least as good as the best MLB in the league huh?

Guess he has to at LEAST win DROY like willis and kuechley

Actually, you could make an argument that Willis isn't even the best ILB on the 49ers team. Ever hear of Bowman?

[K Train]

Willis best attribute against the run isn't his speed. It's the fact that he... like Farrior had all the attributes (including instincts) to play the inside. In college, he could take on a block, shed and still make the tackle. He was a proven commodity in that regard. I'm not convinced that Shazier can do that... yet.

"4 pounds lol"

This is just ignorant. Stop reading the NFL.com combine stats page and do some further resource. He gained a lot of weight to get up to 238. He's never played at that weight. He's said that in several interviews. The NFL scouts told him he needed to put on that weight and to keep it on. Thankfully for us... he didn't lose any speed in the process. Trying to indicate that he's been playing at 238 is just plain inaccurate.
Early on it was most definitely Willis speed that made him an effective run defender, just like timmons he still had to grow into the position

"This is just ignorant. Stop reading the NFL.com blah blah blah"

Please, what a cop out...ive seen plenty of Shazier dont just assume what Ive seen, the draft is one of my biggest hobbies, if not the biggest. I know he hasnt played at that weight but he (and everyone) knew he needed to get bigger and he did...being underzied because you dont have to be big for your role in college and bulking up to go pro is extremely common. He has shown he can do it and he has shown hes still a freak of nature athlete with a little extra bulk on him. It will without a doubt be important for him to keep it on but I dont see him as Aaron Maybin who bulked up and lost eveything that made him good as a pass rusher, hes a different breed of athlete with incredible explosion behind him. My 4 pound comment is because youve never heard of Willis being called undersized because he plays very big despite him being slighlty undersized for the position like shazier


Actually, you could make an argument that Willis isn't even the best ILB on the 49ers team. Ever hear of Bowman?

You could make that argument, then youd be wrong.

They compliment each other very well, but willis was king out there long before Bowman showed up

Plus bowmans knee injury was horrible

[steelz09]

Early on it was most definitely Willis speed that made him an effective run defender, just like timmons he still had to grow into the position

"This is just ignorant. Stop reading the NFL.com blah blah blah"

Please, what a cop out...ive seen plenty of Shazier dont just assume what Ive seen, the draft is one of my biggest hobbies, if not the biggest. I know he hasnt played at that weight but he (and everyone) knew he needed to get bigger and he did...being underzied because you dont have to be big for your role in college and bulking up to go pro is extremely common. He has shown he can do it and he has shown hes still a freak of nature athlete with a little extra bulk on him. It will without a doubt be important for him to keep it on but I dont see him as Aaron Maybin who bulked up and lost eveything that made him good as a pass rusher, hes a different breed of athlete with incredible explosion behind him. My 4 pound comment is because youve never heard of Willis being called undersized because he plays very big despite him being slighlty undersized for the position like shazier



You could make that argument, then youd be wrong.

They compliment each other very well, but willis was king out there long before Bowman showed up

Plus bowmans knee injury was horrible


Just because Willis was king out there before Bowman doesn't mean that he's still king. The king might have been overthrown.

I don't understand what Bowmans knee injury has to do with anything. That takes nothing away from his success prior to that injury.

Speaking of Bowman.... how can a linebacker that is only 6'0 and runs in the 4.70s be as good as what he is? Hmmmm? So much for all those 40 times.

[K Train]

Willis is still better than bowman and its really not all that close...not a single person on the 49ers staff would believe otherwise

6-0 4.7 is plenty big/fast enough, 40 time is one thing but bowman is explosive and was known as a fast player at penn state. Hes an excellent tackler and has good speed to him.

What does he do better than willis? The answer is nothing but go ahead and enlighten all of us

[steelz09]

Willis is still better than bowman and its really not all that close...not a single person on the 49ers staff would believe otherwise

6-0 4.7 is plenty big/fast enough, 40 time is one thing but bowman is explosive and was known as a fast player at penn state. Hes an excellent tackler and has good speed to him.

What does he do better than willis? The answer is nothing but go ahead and enlighten all of us

4.7 is fast enough... Well, I guess Jarvis Jones is plenty fast enough then contrary to popular belief on this board.

Also, I didn't know we had someone on this board that had insider knowledge into the 49ers staff. Interesting.

[steelz09]

Willis is still better than bowman and its really not all that close...not a single person on the 49ers staff would believe otherwise

6-0 4.7 is plenty big/fast enough, 40 time is one thing but bowman is explosive and was known as a fast player at penn state. Hes an excellent tackler and has good speed to him.

What does he do better than willis? The answer is nothing but go ahead and enlighten all of us

Matt Millen (ya, I know) and Bucky Brooks both believe Bowman is better. They worked in a FO unlike yourself. Here is a SF newspaper with some quotes about this:

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/sports/Bowman-May-be-Better-Than-Willis-212961371.html

You might have heard of this thing called 'Google'. There is a lot out there:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Bowman+vs+Willis

[K Train]

4.7 is fast enough... Well, I guess Jarvis Jones is plenty fast enough then contrary to popular belief on this board.

Also, I didn't know we had someone on this board that had insider knowledge into the 49ers staff. Interesting.

Funny how you avoided the question.

And yes, Jarvis jones is fast enough too

I compared the measurables and production of Shazier and Willis because at this point the only thing we can compare about them is their college production and how they tested during the draft process. The whole point of my argument is 15 was not too high for a player like Shazier. Someone was going to take him soon after (probably the cowboys)...he was a dark horse all along to go in the top 15, similar to how the seahawks jumped NYJ to snap Bruce Irvin despite no one really regarding him that high

[K Train]

Matt Millen (ya, I know) and Bucky Brooks both believe Bowman is better. They worked in a FO unlike yourself. Here is a SF newpaper with some quotes about this:

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/sports/Bowman-May-be-Better-Than-Willis-212961371.html

You might have heard of this thing called 'Google'. There is a lot out there:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Bowman+vs+Willis
Coming from the guy that told me to "stop reading NFL.com" to form my draft opinions, the best thing you could offer was Matt Millen and Bucky brooks opinions lol

[steelz09]

Coming from the guy that told me to "stop reading NFL.com" to form my draft opinions, the best thing you could offer was Matt Millen and Bucky brooks opinions lol

Yes, I did.... You posted combine stats to back up Shazier weight but you failed to mention (as NFL.com does) that Shazier did not play at that weight. He played close to 20 pounds lighter.

I'm referencing quotes from former NFL FO personnel that completely disagree with you on Bowman vs Wiilis. Don't get mad that your wrong. If you think Willis is the better player then that is cool. All I said is that an argument could be made that Bowman is just as good if not better than Willis. It could be Bowman is 3.5 years younger.

There is plenty of evidence out there that supports what I said. Don't cry... dry your eye :)

[K Train]

I also posted shaziers TFL stats...more than any MLB currently in the NFL had at the college level...willis, kuechley, bowman, timmons, beason, burfict, washington,....ect. 17 and 24 TFL wasnt even close to being matched by any of those guys. He winds up and shoots the gap as good as any linebacker. Shazier and Timmons on inside cross blitzes are going to be a thing of beauty. His 70 solo tackles were more than any OSU defender in 10 years, more than willis ever had and the same amount kuechley had as a senior.

His combine numbers are incredibly impressive, but his production speaks for itself without the gaudy times and distances

You never said one thing that bowman does better than willis, you just read that he might be better on the internet and ran with it.

[steelz09]

I also posted shaziers TFL stats...more than any MLB currently in the NFL had at the college level...willis, kuechley, bowman, timmons, beason, burfict, washington,....ect. 17 and 24 TFL wasnt even close to being matched by any of those guys. He winds up and shoots the gap as good as any linebacker. Shazier and Timmons on inside cross blitzes are going to be a thing of beauty. His 70 solo tackles were more than any OSU defender in 10 years, more than willis ever had and the same amount kuechley had as a senior.

His combine numbers are incredibly impressive, but his production speaks for itself without the gaudy times and distances

You never said one thing that bowman does better than willis, you just read that he might be better on the internet and ran with it.

Actually, I provided evidence from NFL FO personnel who think that Bowman has surpassed Willis. You provided nothing except opinion. Nothing else.

If you want stats, you can see that Bowman has exceeded Willis' in almost every category since he became a full time starter in 2011. Starting in 2011, he has had more tackles, and tackles for loss, sacks and equal in interceptions. So, stats prove you wrong.... and NFL Front Office personnel have proved you wrong. So, what else do you want? Ok, you want my personal opinion about what he does better....

I think Bowman is more powerful at the point of attack. He can stack and shed and is outstanding on fighting thru blocks. He think he might have slightly read & react skills (his vision). He's a great tackler (as is Willis). I think Bowman is definitely a more explosive/violent/powerful hitter. I do think Willis has him beat on pure athleticism. Both are great players but to say Willis is better in every aspect is wrong especially when there is evidence at every level that proves otherwise.

[K Train]

Actually, I provided evidence from NFL FO personnel who think that Bowman has surpassed Willis. You provided nothing except opinion. Nothing else.

If you want stats, you can see that Bowman has exceeded Willis' in almost every category since he became a full time starter in 2011. Starting in 2011, he has had more tackles, and tackles for loss, sacks and equal in interceptions. So, stats prove you wrong.... and NFL Front Office personnel have proved you wrong. So, what else do you want? Ok, you want my personal opinion about what he does better....

I think Bowman has heavier hands, can stack and shed better and might have slighter better vision as indicated by his stellar TFL #'s. He's a great tackler (as is Willis). I think Bowman is definitely a more explosive/violent/powerful hitter. I do think Willis has him beat on pure athleticism. Both are great players but to say Willis is better in every aspect is wrong especially when there is evidence at every level that proves otherwise.
Thats more along the lines of what i was looking for....as opposed to matt millen and bucky brooks

I think the problem with evaluating them is we are looking at them as if both ILBs positions are the same. Bowman was an OLB in penn states 43 and has shown tremendous coverage ability and ability to shoot the gaps from his position (which can be debated, but imo he lines up much more like an "elephant LB" or "leo" as opposed to just your typical Buck LB in a 34, he doesnt rush the passer as much as an ELB would though)...obiously the elephant role is for a 43 with an undersized DE playing LB. But when you watch bowman play he is typically playing that position but dropping into coverage far more and playing contain on the run. I think Fangio calls his MLBs a Jack and Mike, I just use Mack and Buck for simplicity, but I THINK the jack is essentially playing like a 43 SAM. Vic Fangio went to ESU ive heard him do some coaching/lectures since i am from that area

Meanwhile Willis has largely been used an a more traditional Mike in recent years. This is due to how creative theyve been able to get with stuns in their pass rush and how well justin smith holds up on the line. Aldon Smith does two things well, he rushes the passer and drinks. But now they have an influx of youth with Aaron Lynch and Corey Lemonier to work in the rotation with Ahmad Brooks. Willis' role in all this is massively different than when he was playing with Takeo Spikes who was strictly a run stuffer, willis was probably the best MLB at covering TEs those years. Brooks doesn’t play like a regular strong side outside linebacker. He has primary edge contain responsibility like almost like an DE but will funnel things to the MLBs. Fangio may run it this way because of the athleticism of his middle linebackers though. Its an interesting scheme, theres just no way I could give Bowman the nod over Willis. Willis has played bowmans position at a high level before and now he plays a completely different one at the same high level

Id also disagree with Bowman being more violent than willis. But we will get to see this year, Willis is going back to playing his old position with more coverage responsibilites and they have a few guys vying for the spot next to him. Bowmans injury was pretty grusome so who knows when/if we will see them play together again.

If willis is only better than Bowman because of his insane athletica ability, that still makes him better than bowman :-)

If Chris Borland just rises to stardom, ill just say **** it, call them all bums and give Fangio all the credit

Whole point of my argument for shazier is I think we took patrick willis with shazier and the ravens took keith rivers with mosely. The ravens get left with mosely 2 picks later, and got left with Jernigan 2 picks after we took Tuitt....at least imo

[SteelerOfDeVille]

Willis best attribute against the run isn't his speed. It's the fact that he... like Farrior had all the attributes (including instincts) to play the inside. In college, he could take on a block, shed and still make the tackle. He was a proven commodity in that regard. I'm not convinced that Shazier can do that... yet.

"4 pounds lol"

This is just ignorant. Stop reading the NFL.com combine stats page and do some further resource. He gained a lot of weight to get up to 238. He's never played at that weight. He's said that in several interviews. The NFL scouts told him he needed to put on that weight and to keep it on. Thankfully for us... he didn't lose any speed in the process. Trying to indicate that he's been playing at 238 is just plain inaccurate.
Steelz09 was en fuego

[RuthlessBurgher]

Steelz09 was en fuego

SteelerOfDeVille is Dan Patrick. :)

[SteelerOfDeVille]

SteelerOfDeVille is Dan Patrick. :)
I WISH... I'd be rich! lol

[Shawn]

I also posted shaziers TFL stats...more than any MLB currently in the NFL had at the college level...willis, kuechley, bowman, timmons, beason, burfict, washington,....ect. 17 and 24 TFL wasnt even close to being matched by any of those guys. He winds up and shoots the gap as good as any linebacker. Shazier and Timmons on inside cross blitzes are going to be a thing of beauty. His 70 solo tackles were more than any OSU defender in 10 years, more than willis ever had and the same amount kuechley had as a senior.

His combine numbers are incredibly impressive, but his production speaks for itself without the gaudy times and distances

You never said one thing that bowman does better than willis, you just read that he might be better on the internet and ran with it.

Willis and Shazier are different kinds of LBrs. Willis was much more physical coming out of college. I remember seeing his film and commenting on it. The dude was a man amongst boys. But, he isn't the athlete that Shazier is, and doesn't have the ceiling that Shazier has. Shazier can be the best ILB in the game...he has that kind of upside. But, he MUST prove he can play at 237 and not drop 20 pounds during the season. He must be able to disengage. But I do think all that will come.

[Iron City Inc.]

Willis and Shazier are different kinds of LBrs. Willis was much more physical coming out of college. I remember seeing his film and commenting on it. The dude was a man amongst boys. But, he isn't the athlete that Shazier is, and doesn't have the ceiling that Shazier has. Shazier can be the best ILB in the game...he has that kind of upside. But, he MUST prove he can play at 237 and not drop 20 pounds during the season. He must be able to disengage. But I do think all that will come.
Good points. Had a feeling you'd be kicking the tires on this thread about a OSU draft pick.

[K Train]

Willis and Shazier are different kinds of LBrs. Willis was much more physical coming out of college. I remember seeing his film and commenting on it. The dude was a man amongst boys. But, he isn't the athlete that Shazier is, and doesn't have the ceiling that Shazier has. Shazier can be the best ILB in the game...he has that kind of upside. But, he MUST prove he can play at 237 and not drop 20 pounds during the season. He must be able to disengage. But I do think all that will come.

True. Shazier played small at OSU. I remember seeing willis look like a monster at Ole Miss playing with that club of a cast on his arm/hand. I am largely assuming his size wont be an issue and he will keep the weight on. Timmons bulked up similarly (after his first year in the league though) and kept it on, he went from a light ~230 to a hammer 250

[hawaiiansteel]

Ryan Shazier has little time left to get caught up

By Neal Coolong on Jul 22 2014

Highly drafted rookies have the widest gap between realistic expectations and viable preparation to succeed. Steelers rookie LB Ryan Shazier will likely end up winning the starting position but he has to play well above his level of experience if the Steelers are to find their defensive dominance again.

Being taken with a high draft pick in the first round is a double-edged sword.

Usually a player shows outstanding enough talent their mark is just waiting to be made on the NFL. They will likely, barring injury, experience a long and fruitful NFL career.

At the same time, there's a reason the team selected that player, and it usually is not related to him being the one piece they're missing to bring the franchise from sub-.500 to the Super Bowl. Talent around that player isn't all that great, and the steep and painful lessons in becoming an NFL player are usually what wins out in that player's first season.

The Steelers are caught in the middle of a tale of two rookie linebackers. There's Vince Williams in 2013; a player taken in the sixth round and looked to be more of a developmental player early in his career, if he made the roster. This time last year, no one was talking about the questions surrounding starting a rookie opposite Lawrence Timmons.

That's different this year. The Steelers, so compelled by the athleticism of Ryan Shazier they used their first round pick, 15th overall, on the linebacker out of Ohio State. Certainly a better athlete than Williams, perhaps a better player in the early stages of their careers. Still the same level of pro experience as Williams did on this date in 2013.

It's rare to find Patrick Willis or Kiko Alonso; linebackers who step in the starting lineup on Day 1 and dominate. It's not impossible either, however. Willis was the 11th overall pick in the 2007 draft, and Alonso was taken in the second round. Not that a draft spot ultimately matters, but it's not as if the Steelers are unaware of what to look for in their linebackers.

Still, the draft is more about the future than the right-now. Williams was pushed into service last year, becoming the first rookie inside linebacker to start for Dick LeBeau's defense he returned to the franchise in 2004. It isn't exactly ideal, but even if it isn't Shazier, the Steelers' options aren't exactly stacked. Williams showed enough liability where he's certainly not a three-down option. Sean Spence is technically a third-year player but has as much regular season experience as Shazier does.

While Shazier is no doubt looking forward to the challenge ahead of him, he's still put in a pretty tough spot, from one line of thinking. He doesn't have a veteran in place to really compete with him for the spot. Timmons is locked in at his position and will serve as a mentor but isn't competing with Shazier. Williams can't compete with Shazier's athletic ability. Spence isn't any more experienced and is coming off a significant knee injury.

So Shazier enters camp largely as the default starting inside linebacker opposite Timmons. That won't exactly endear his teammates. Not his fault, certainly, but he still has a lot to learn and really not a whole lot of time left to learn it.

The countdown clock flips from time remaining until the team's first practice (four days) to the countdown until Week 1 vs. Cleveland (47 days).

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/pittsburgh-steelers-opinions-reactions-news-updates/2014/7/22/5925801/steelers-ryan-shazier-news-starting-linebacker-2014-nfl-draft

[K Train]

Shazier stars in backs on backers
Ray Fittipaldo about 18 hours ago


Steelers coach Mike Tomlin sent the message loud and clear Friday afternoon when his players reported for training camp. “See you Monday” was his response when he was asked if there would be live tackling on the first day of padded practices.

An hour into the first of those padded practices Monday afternoon, there was a spirited backs on backers drill followed by team drills that included live tackling.

“We’ll put them in some challenging situations, see how they respond,” Tomlin said after practice. “From an intensity standpoint, I give each side a thumbs-up in terms of rising to the occasion that was presented.”

The star of the backs on backers drill was rookie linebacker Ryan Shazier. In the drills, linebackers go one-on-one against running backs and tight ends trying to get to the quarterback.

Shazier twice beat veteran running back LeGarrette Blount on speed moves, making Blount look bad. On the third rush, Blount stepped up and popped Shazier before he could make a move.

Still, two out of three isn’t bad for a rookie going up against a season veteran.

“He did some nice things,” Tomlin said. “He was elusive. He was playing to his assets with his speed and agility.”

Blount gave the rookie his due.

“He got my attention on the first couple,” Blount said. “As a football player it’s in your nature not to lose. I just have to make sure I get him before he gets off the line. He’s a quick kid. Obviously, I’m not as quick as he is so I have to get to him before he makes his move. He’s really quick, he’s really fast. He makes plays.”

Linebackers coach Joey Porter spent the drill instructing the linebackers in an entertaining fashion. He was exhorted Shazier to use his speed to his advantage.

“He could be 10 miles away and you’d hear coach Porter. He just says use what you know best.”

http://sportsblogs.post-gazette.com/...s/201407280001

[Eddie Spaghetti]

tunch had some really nice things to say about shazier just now on 970 espn in pittsburgh.

really liking the direction of this defense right now

[birtikidis]

Any LB can get buried by a 330 lb lineman on a running play...
Hell I remember Dan Krieder burying Ray Ray on running plays. And he was no where near 330.
That is what our running game misses.

[hawaiiansteel]

Column: Why Pittsburgh will love Ryan Shazier 53

By Dejan Kovacevic
July 28, 2014

http://dkonpittsburghsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Screen-Shot-2014-07-28-at-10.16.29-PM.jpg

LATROBE, Pa. — “I wasn’t surprised at all,” Ryan Shazier insisted to reporters Monday when asked about the almost barbaric punishment being doled out in the Steelers’ annual backs-on-backers drill. “We’re a hard-nosed team. We’re in Pittsburgh, Ohio.”

He caught himself immediately and laughed a bit.

“Pittsburgh, P-A. I’m sorry about that. Went to Ohio State. We’re from Pittsburgh, P-A. We play dirty.”

Caught himself again.

“Not dirty, but hard-nosed.”

Nah, that last one was fine, actually. And the other one wasn’t all bad, either. The way Shazier competed Monday — in backs-and-backers and all that followed on the first day in full pads — I’m guessing no one would care which Pittsburgh he’s from, so long as it’s the only one in the world ending with an H.

I’ll say it yet again, Nation: You will love this kid.

There was skepticism, sure, when Mike Tomlin and Kevin Colbert drafted him 15th overall in June. Not so much because of Shazier’s pedigree — as Tomlin deftly put it that same night, a linebacker with a stature of 6 feet 1, 237 pounds who can run the 40 in 4.2 seconds is “rare air” — but because of positioning. Everyone wanted a wide receiver. I’m no different. I heard the names, saw the highlights and picture a bookend for Antonio Brown that would have launched the Steelers’ offense to some other level.

Well, let’s all get over it collectively. Because, as it turns out, Ryan Dean Shazier, son of a Fort Lauderdale ordained minister, might just be the right blessing at the right time.
___________________

Tomlin habitually downplays drama, and yet lives for it in the right moments. He opened backs-on-backers by aligning LeGarrette Blount vs. Lawrence Timmons, just to get everyone’s attention. It worked. LB and LT collided with such force it might well have echoed off Saint Benedict Hall, high atop the hill overlooking Chuck Noll Field. The players whooped it up. The coaching staff barked encouragement. And Joey Porter, performing the Bizarro dual role of stand-in QB and psycho game-show host, bellowed out, “I see ya 9-4! I see ya!”

Tight end Rob Blanchflower and linebacker Vince Williams were the next to draw the hoots and hollers. Then little fireplug back Jordan Hall by leveling linebacker Terence Garvin. But none of it seemed enough to suit Tomlin, who mostly stood silently while Porter held bombastic court.

That’s when Tomlin lined up Blount and Shazier. The rest of us in the small circle near the south end zone — coaches, players and yeah, media, too, because drama doesn’t count if it isn’t witnessed — might not have known this would be the head coach’s marquee, but here’s betting he did.

First go-round was merely an opening act: Shazier, with one swift step and a strong fling of his left arm, blew through Blount and wrapped up Porter.

I would say that this excited Porter, but I could also tell you that the Browns will finish last.

“That’s it! That’s what I want! Speed is your asset! Use it! Speed is your asset!”

Tomlin wanted more.

Second go-round: Shazier used another burst, this time to Blount’s other side and was on Porter almost as quickly.

The players — except the other backers, of course — roared for this as if that had been Joe Flacco in Shazier’s grasp.

No way Tomlin would leave it at that, though. So he set up the same pins.

But before the snap, Porter had this to say in Shazier’s direction: “He don’t believe in you! He don’t believe! He don’t believe it’s real.”

Blount, he meant. Blount didn’t believe in Shazier. But whether or not that was the case soon proved moot.

Third go-round: BOOM!

If LB and LT were felt up the hill, then this collision had to have reverberated off the visible Laurel Highlands mountains several miles away. It was a seismic, almost sickening crash of helmets, pads, body parts and presumably senses.

Not even a boxing ref could state definitively who get the better of the actual moment, but it was instantly clear who got the worst of it when Shazier spun to his left, had a split-second awful glaze in his eyes, then collected himself before returning to his group.

There was no cheering this time, other than a couple backs giving it up for Blount. And really, no one needed to elaborate on what had just happened: The vet took his blows, then welcomed the rookie to the NFL.

“Obviously, I’m not as quick as he is,” Blount would say later. “He got my attention on the first couple. As a competitor, it’s in your nature to not lose. So I kept on going.”

How polite.

And Shazier’s reaction?

“I knew he was going to bring a punch on that last one.”

How respectful.
___________________

Football diehards will remember this one, at least as best that’s possible without video being allowed. These are matchups, winners and losers alike, that live on in future camp lore.

To an extent, they’ll also be remembered by the men who matter most. At least if you took it seriously when Tomlin gushed like a kid on Christmas Eve the day before the pads were donned: “It’s not football-like. It’s football. I’m always excited about who ascends in those situations and who shrinks in those situations.”

Shrinks, the man said.

“That’s just the reality of it,” Tomlin continued to complete the thought.

Be that as it may, the fullest context must include actual football. And, in as close to that as we witnessed Monday, Shazier did anything but shrink.

On one play from scrimmage later in the session— again, full contact, 11 to a side — that fireplug Hall took a handoff and cut around left tackle with exceptional momentum. And once a healthy entourage of blockers arrived, it appeared he’d be on the way to a big gain.

Until he wasn’t.

The pack suddenly, violently began to move back with a collective flail. It wasn’t immediately clear why, only that it was. Back two yards, then three, then finally with poor Hall crushed under a mess of bodies.

As the players arose, one was left with his arms wrapped around Hall well after the tackle, gripping the back like a life preserver in shark-infested waters.

“I see ya 5-0!” came the shout from nearby. It was Porter, of course.

We’ll all see on the seventh of September.

http://dkonpittsburghsports.com/2014/07/28/column-why-pittsburgh-will-love-ryan-shazier/

[sick beats]

1:20 reminds me of Troy. Only Troy can make that type of play in the NFL.

Yea, but Shazier actually made the tackle. :p

[hawaiiansteel]

Ed Bouchette @EdBouchette:

“@Wittman7: @EdBouchette barring injury is there any way Shazier doesn't start?” ... No

https://twitter.com/EdBouchette

[hawaiiansteel]

Scott Brown @ScottBrown_ESPN ·

Nice play Ryan Shazier. Almost picked off short pass over the middle from Ben to Spaeth. Arrived at same time as the ball.

https://twitter.com/ScottBrown_ESPN