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View Full Version : More misses than hits for Steelers lately in NFL draft's third round



SteelCrazy
05-02-2014, 06:16 AM
http://www.post-gazette.com/image/2014/05/01/ca0,47,1523,1062/wheaton0502.jpg
Steelers wide receiver Markus Wheaton -- the team's third-round pick in 2013 -- holds onto the ball after a pass from quarterback Ben Roethlisberger in the fourth quarter of the team's opening day game last season against the Tennessee Titans

By Ray Fittipaldo / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Steelers greats Mel Blount and Hines Ward are Super Bowl champions. They hold franchise records, and because they played their positions with such unique distinction, they have NFL rules named after them.

The best cornerback in team history and one of its greatest receivers have something else in common: They were third-round draft choices.

Overlooked prospects coming out of college, third-round choices can become All-Pro-caliber players. They also can fail miserably and make critics question a team’s scouting methods.

The Steelers have had their share of third-round picks in recent years who have been more infamous than famous.

From Anthony Smith and Willie Reid in 2006 to Bruce Davis in 2008 to Curtis Brown in 2011, the failure to develop third-round picks has been problematic for a franchise that once made a living off them. And when the Steelers have found third-round gems, they have not been on the team long, opting to sign free-agent contracts elsewhere.

ESPN analyst Bill Polian, a former general manager for the Bills, Panthers and Colts, said there is good reason the Steelers have hit a dry spell with third-round picks. Inherently, third-round picks have a boom or bust quality.

“Generally speaking, third-round picks tend to be guys with talent, but there is some chink in the armor,” Polian said. “They’re either overachievers or they’re underachievers. They can have great talent, but there might be a character issue. If you hit on one, that’s good. But there is a miss factor there. In the first and second rounds you pretty much know what you’re getting. In the third round, you don’t as much.”

When teams do hit on third-round picks it can help them develop into championship-caliber teams. Some other third-round gems for the Steelers over the years include linebacker Jason Gildon, the franchise leader in sacks; linebacker Joey Porter, the emotional leader of the Super Bowl XL championship team; linebacker Mike Merriweather, a three-time Pro-Bowler who once recorded 15 sacks in a season; and quarterback Neil O’Donnell, who led the Steelers to Super Bowl XXX.

“Everyone is focused on the first guy in the first round, but there are a lot of good football players who are not first-rounders,” said Tom Donahoe, the former director of player personnel for the Steelers who drafted Ward, Gildon and Porter. “You are always worried about your depth and tomorrow. You’re concerned about free agency. You’ll lose some guys. You can handle free agency better if you have guys who are waiting in the wings to take over a spot. It’s critical to be able to do that.”

Ward slid in the draft for two reasons. He was born without ACLs in his knees and he was forced to play quarterback in his senior season at Georgia because the team was besieged by injuries.

For years, the Steelers took calculated gambles on tweeners — college defensive ends who would become outside linebackers in their 3-4 scheme. Porter and Gildon made seamless transitions; Davis was a bust. It happens.

Donahoe, who is now an adviser with the Eagles, is the first to admit there is a luck factor. In addition to his well-known hits, he had a couple of third-round picks who never materialized. Linebacker Steve Conley was the No. 72 overall pick in 1996 and only played three seasons in the NFL, two with the Steelers. Kris Farris, the No. 74 overall selection in 1999, never played in a game for the Steelers.

When teams do strike gold with third-round picks it can change the course of history. The most famous third-round pick is Joe Montana, who has four Super Bowl wins. He was deemed too small in college at Notre Dame.

Last year’s Super Bowl winning quarterback, Russell Wilson, also was a third-round pick. Like Montana, there were concerns about Wilson’s size coming out of Wisconsin.

Some other famous third-round picks in recent years include Terrell Owens, Jason Taylor and Curtis Martin.

“In the third round you are getting a top-100 guy,” said longtime scout and draft evaluator Joe Butler. “You can find some of the better guys in the draft. It’s an important round because you should be getting starters. In the third, fourth, fifth rounds, you can get guys who slip for whatever reason. They can develop into some big-time players.”

That has not happened often for the Steelers lately. Smith, a safety, was gone after three forgettable seasons. So was Brown, who was released in March without ever starting a game. Reid, a receiver and punt returner, was gone after two. Davis, an outside linebacker, lasted only one.

The Steelers have made some quality third-round picks, but circumstances have dictated they play elsewhere. They had three third-round draft picks in 2009 and all three are high-caliber starters, but now employed by other teams.

• Receiver Mike Wallace played four seasons with the Steelers and helped them get to Super Bowl XLV, but the Steelers elected not to match a big free-agent contract he signed with Miami.

• Cornerback Keenan Lewis also played four years with the Steelers before signing a free-agent contract with New Orleans before last season. The Steelers elected not to pay Lewis and kept Ike Taylor, whose play dipped considerably in 2013.

• Offensive lineman Kraig Urbik, the first third-round choice that year, was released after one season because Ramon Foster, an undrafted free agent in 2009, developed into a starter. Urbik is a starter in Buffalo.

• Receiver Emmanuel Sanders was drafted in the third round in 2010 and took Wallace’s place in the starting lineup, but signed a free-agent contract with the Broncos in March. The Steelers again are looking to replace him with yet another third-round pick, Markus Wheaton.

The only third-round picks currently on the roster are Wheaton (2013), linebacker Sean Spence (2012) and tight end Matt Spaeth (2007).

Whether it has been bad drafting, bad luck or the Steelers not wishing to match a contract offer for a player, they have not had many third-round picks reach second contracts with the team lately.

That’s not the reason general manager Kevin Colbert traded away this year’s third-round pick. He did it to move up in the fourth round to select safety Shamarko Thomas.

Part of the reason for the trade was that Colbert knew the Steelers would receive a compensatory third-round pick from the NFL for losing Wallace in free agency. That pick comes at the end of the round.

Regardless of where the pick comes in the draft order, the Steelers are hoping for the next Blount or Ward and not the next Brown or Reid.

History indicates making that happen is easier said than done.



http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2014/05/02/No-charm-More-misses-than-hits-for-Steelers-in-third-round-lately/stories/201405020056

BradshawsHairdresser
05-04-2014, 09:26 AM
With the depth in this class, this is the year to break the bad trend.

Oviedo
05-04-2014, 09:39 AM
With the depth in this class, this is the year to break the bad trend.

Unfortunately all we got is a 3rd Round Comp pick after trading ours to get Shamarko. That doesn't look like a great trade right now.

Slapstick
05-04-2014, 09:42 AM
Unfortunately all we got is a 3rd Round Comp pick after trading ours to get Shamarko. That doesn't look like a great trade right now.

I disagree. He's is developing into a good football player...perhaps better than what we might have picked in round 3...time will tell...

steelsnis
05-04-2014, 12:02 PM
Ovi, How can you possibly say that with a straight face? You're ready to proclaim Shamarko a bust after he played in 9 games as a rookie? Whoa...

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2013/12/27/5247310/steelers-trade-cleveland-shamarko-thomas-2013-nfl-draft-details (http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2013/12/27/5247310/steelers-trade-cleveland-shamarko-thomas-2013-nfl-draft-details)

Here's what Ike had to say at the end of last season:


"By the time the end of next season comes, I'm going to say I told you so," Taylor said. "Once Shamarko gets an opportunity to start, ya'll going to see why we call him 'Headache' as a nickname. He's a young explosive guy that can run and hit. If you're going to have a knock on him, you may talk about his size. Everybody talked about Earl Thomas' size, but those guys in Seattle have been balling. So a football player is a football player, and that's Shamarko."

8467thekraken
05-04-2014, 12:06 PM
Waaaaaaaay to early to tell. Give the kid some time. Geez.


Unfortunately all we got is a 3rd Round Comp pick after trading ours to get Shamarko. That doesn't look like a great trade right now.

focosteeler
05-04-2014, 01:44 PM
Curtis Brown is the biggest disappointment for me... I remember watching his game film when we drafted him and I was ecstatic that he lasted until the 3rd.

Oviedo
05-04-2014, 02:24 PM
Ovi, How can you possibly say that with a straight face? You're ready to proclaim Shamarko a bust after he played in 9 games as a rookie? Whoa...

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2013/12/27/5247310/steelers-trade-cleveland-shamarko-thomas-2013-nfl-draft-details (http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2013/12/27/5247310/steelers-trade-cleveland-shamarko-thomas-2013-nfl-draft-details)

Here's what Ike had to say at the end of last season:


He's developing so well that we had to go sign Mike Mitchell to play safety versus trusting him with the free safety job. No one is saying he is a bust but did we have to really give up a third round pick for a player who obviously the team doesn't think is ready to be a starter until at least his third or fourth season. Therin lies the problem why this defense is slipping. We may get to see a full season out of Shamarko in the final year of his rookie contract...not smart is a cap driven league as we saw with Keenan Lewis.

Shawn
05-04-2014, 02:29 PM
He's developing so well that we had to go sign Mike Mitchell to play safety versus trusting him with the free safety job. No one is saying he is a bust but did we have to really give up a third round pick for a player who obviously the team doesn't think is ready to be a starter until at least his third or fourth season. Therin lies the problem why this defense is slipping. We may get to see a full season out of Shamarko in the final year of his rookie contract...not smart is a cap driven league as we saw with Keenan Lewis. That's because the Shark's skill set is that of a SS.

Slapstick
05-04-2014, 02:30 PM
No one is saying he is a bust but did we have to really give up a third round pick for a player who obviously the team doesn't think is ready to be a starter until at least his third or fourth season.

If you expect your fourth round pick to be a starter in year 2, you have a bad football team...

hawaiiansteel
05-04-2014, 02:43 PM
How the 3-4 defense and 2011 CBA have made drafting more difficult for the Steelers

Ray Fittipaldo

I have a story in today’s paper on the Steelers swinging and missing on third-round draft picks in recent years. Where the Steelers once found tremendous value with players such as Joey Porter, Jason Gildon and Hines Ward they’ve taken some guys who have failed to work out.

Do names like Anthony Smith, Willie Reid, Bruce Davis and Curtis Brown ring a bell? They should and for all the wrong reasons.

I did interviews with former general managers Tom Donahoe and Bill Polian as well as respected local scout Joe Butler on picking in the third round.

Their insight was so good I wasn’t able to fit all of it into the story.

Donahoe, who is now an advisor with the Eagles, said there is one other factor that has made life more difficult for the Steelers in recent years when it comes to drafting in the middle rounds. So many other teams are running the 3-4 defense.

“I really thought we had an advantage back then because there were not as many teams running the 34 defense as there are today,” Donahoe said. “I think the number is now 16 of the 32 teams are running the 34. Back then, there were maybe five or seven, so you are talking about a big difference.

“We got Jason Gildon and Joey Porter. They both played with their hand on the ground in college and we were projecting them as outside linebackers. We always felt like we could get those guys in the third or fourth round.”

Now the Steelers are forced to take those types of players higher in the draft because they are in demand. They invested their first-round pick in outside linebacker Jarvis Jones last year and used a second-round pick on Jason Worilds in 2010.

There is even talk of the Steelers using another high pick this year on an outside linebacker because there is little depth behind Jones and Worilds, who is currently under contract for only one more year.

*In many cases, third-round picks are not counted on as starters right away. They are developmental picks who ascend to starting positions in a year or two. The Steelers and other teams have a new challenge on when to extend contracts to players who are coming into their own.

That's because the 2011 collective bargaining agreement stipulated four-year rookie contracts for all players except first-round choices, which have a fifth year option.

For example, Keenan Lewis, a third-round pick in 2009, did not become a starter until his fourth season, but he played so well that the Saints made him a free agent offer the Steelers did not match. Instead, they chose to keep Ike Taylor, whose play declined.

Mike Wallace, another third-round pick in 2009, was a different situation. He became a full-time starter in his second season and the Steelers wanted to keep him. However, he played so well his asking price was too high. The Steelers allowed him to walk in free agency when he signed a huge deal with the Dolphins.

Emmanuel Sanders was the team’s third-round pick in 2010. Like Lewis, he did not become a full-time starter until his fourth season. He played OK, but the Steelers were not going to pay big money to keep him. They let him sign with Denver and their plan is to plug Markus Wheaton or a high rookie pick into his starting spot.

Donahoe said the new free agency rules present some problems for general managers.

“It has a big impact on your roster,” Donahoe said of the four-year rookie contracts. “If you can’t get them locked up early you have to look at how you are going to replace them. It’s a dilemma. If you draft guys in the second or third round you like for those guys to get into second contracts, but it doesn’t always work out that way. It’s a juggling act.”

Now more than ever it seems the Steelers must heed the words of Art Rooney II, who has said he’d like to see the rookies and younger players develop quicker.

Whether it’s in development or in the identification process of which players they’d like to keep, the free agent losses in recent years suggests one or the other has to improve.

http://sportsblogs.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers-steelers-blog/2014/05/01/Trade-Down-Only-if-Steelers-Can-Get-Value/stories/201405010002

steelz09
05-04-2014, 02:49 PM
Unfortunately all we got is a 3rd Round Comp pick after trading ours to get Shamarko. That doesn't look like a great trade right now.

Says the guy that loves Timmons even though he took years to develop ... but somehow JJ and Thomas are busts after 1 year.

steelz09
05-04-2014, 02:55 PM
That's because the Shark's skill set is that of a SS.

Exactly. Thomas wasn't drafted to be a FS. I don't know why people even thought that to begin with. His skillset is that of a SS and that is what he was drafted to play. He is not playing because he's stuck behind a future HOFer who played well last year.

Slapstick
05-04-2014, 03:52 PM
Exactly. Thomas wasn't drafted to be a FS. I don't know why people even thought that to begin with. His skillset is that of a SS and that is what he was drafted to play. He is not playing because he's stuck behind a future HOFer who played well last year.

...and who also has a significant injury history...Thomas could see lots of playing time this year as a starter, though I hope Troy stays healthy and continues to play at a high level...

steelsnis
05-04-2014, 04:08 PM
He's developing so well that we had to go sign Mike Mitchell to play safety versus trusting him with the free safety job. No one is saying he is a bust but did we have to really give up a third round pick for a player who obviously the team doesn't think is ready to be a starter until at least his third or fourth season. Therin lies the problem why this defense is slipping. We may get to see a full season out of Shamarko in the final year of his rookie contract...not smart is a cap driven league as we saw with Keenan Lewis.

Shamarko is a strong safety. Mitchell was signed as a free safety. Shamarko is Troy's replacement when he decides to hang 'em up.

BradshawsHairdresser
05-04-2014, 07:41 PM
I think Shark will be fine. Chances are, he WON'T be another Troy...but that's a pretty tough act to follow.

thor75
05-04-2014, 07:50 PM
The Shark will be fine, he is totally dedicated to his craft. Ever see his workout regimen?? You don't have that work ethic and want to just get by.