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View Full Version : Tackle the catch? Seahawks dominated that way



Captain Lemming
02-04-2014, 09:22 PM
Peyton set the record for completions while throwing 70 percent.
And Ovi said they didn't just tackle the catch? What?

Peyton Manning's 34 completions and DeMaryius Thomas' 13 catches in Super Bowl XLVIII both set individual records in the 43-8 loss to the Seattle Seahawks.

They did it like nobody EVER has in a SB. We attack the ball more than they did in that game, the picks were errant passes caused by pressure.

Our problem is is we can't catch, and are aging not scheme.

Dee Dub
02-04-2014, 09:30 PM
Peyton set the record for completions while throwing 70 percent.
And Ovi said they didn't just tackle the catch? What?

Peyton Manning's 34 completions and DeMaryius Thomas' 13 catches in Super Bowl XLVIII both set individual records in the 43-8 loss to the Seattle Seahawks.

They did it like nobody EVER has in a SB. We attack the ball more than they did in that game, the picks were errant passes caused by pressure.

Our problem is is we can't catch, not scheme.

But that is attacking only those where they are coming forward. Get a team that can stretch them deep and run the ball half way descent (keep them honest), they wont be tackling that many underneath passes.

I am not taking anything away from Seattle, they did a great job, but when a team is one dimensional on offense it isn't all that hard.

Sugar
02-04-2014, 11:31 PM
I would love to see the YAC that the Donkeys averaged. I would think that it would be historically low. The Seattle D maintained their gaps and made their tackles.

SidSmythe
02-04-2014, 11:33 PM
But that is attacking only those where they are coming forward. Get a team that can stretch them deep and run the ball half way descent (keep them honest), they wont be tackling that many underneath passes.

I am not taking anything away from Seattle, they did a great job, but when a team is one dimensional on offense it isn't all that hard.

Not sure an Offense that sets all those records is "1 dimensional"
like ur mock draft though! :-D

NJ-STEELER
02-05-2014, 12:12 AM
no we dont

NorthCoast
02-05-2014, 12:44 AM
I would love to see the YAC that the Donkeys averaged. I would think that it would be historically low. The Seattle D maintained their gaps and made their tackles.

The Broncos averaged 6.0 YAC/rec in 2013.

In the Superbowl, they averaged 3.6 YAC/rec.

SEA blitzed on only 12% of plays, lowest the Broncos faced all season.

SEA loaded the box on defense on 30% of the plays, highest the Broncos faced all season.

skyhawk
02-05-2014, 01:47 AM
Stats lie.

pittpete
02-05-2014, 02:26 AM
Thats funny i was listening to sirius radio earlier and Gil brandt was talking about how teams are going to start playing more man like Seattle did.
Talking about how the NFL is a copycat league and so on.

Oviedo
02-05-2014, 06:17 AM
The Broncos averaged 6.0 YAC/rec in 2013.

In the Superbowl, they averaged 3.6 YAC/rec.

SEA blitzed on only 12% of plays, lowest the Broncos faced all season.

SEA loaded the box on defense on 30% of the plays, highest the Broncos faced all season.

The Seahawks didn't blitz ebacsue they have a four man defensive line that attacks the QB and puts pressure on him every play. They are attacking, not "occupying blockers." This frees up the LBs to take away the underneath zones on pass plays. Manning had a high percentage because the pressure forced him to dump the ball quickly. And while the Seattle DBs "tackled the catch," they didn't spot the WRs 8-10 yards. They tackled the catch immediated which was clearly shown by the AC because they were on them like clue.

So yes, it is very much scheme.

feltdizz
02-05-2014, 08:01 AM
Yeeeeeeah......

feltdizz
02-05-2014, 08:04 AM
no we dont
I know.... we haven't tackled the catch like that in a loooooong time.

flippy
02-05-2014, 08:26 AM
Peyton set the record for completions while throwing 70 percent.
And Ovi said they didn't just tackle the catch? What?

Peyton Manning's 34 completions and DeMaryius Thomas' 13 catches in Super Bowl XLVIII both set individual records in the 43-8 loss to the Seattle Seahawks.

They did it like nobody EVER has in a SB. We attack the ball more than they did in that game, the picks were errant passes caused by pressure.

Our problem is is we can't catch, and are aging not scheme.

Our D can't tackle either...

ikestops85
02-05-2014, 11:58 AM
Our D can't tackle either...

Correct ... but is that scheme or talent?

feltdizz
02-05-2014, 12:10 PM
Correct ... but is that scheme or talent?

both...most of the catches are in space after a first down.

If we were missing tackles in the backfield or missing tackles 3 or 4 yards short of the first down I would see the point but we had too many missed tackles while these players were running downhill.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-05-2014, 12:44 PM
You ask any expert, player, OC, coach....They will tell you the Seahawks seondary allows the front 7 to do many different things. It is the same principal we experienced when Ike & Troy were in their prime and Ryan was able to cover the outer thirds. When the back end is leveled you could "tilt" the front end. Until the Steelers get that fixed...Our front 7 won't be playing downhill.

Slapstick
02-05-2014, 01:05 PM
It's talent.

feltdizz
02-05-2014, 01:20 PM
You ask any expert, player, OC, coach....They will tell you the Seahawks seondary allows the front 7 to do many different things. It is the same principal we experienced when Ike & Troy were in their prime and Ryan was able to cover the outer thirds. When the back end is leveled you could "tilt" the front end. Until the Steelers get that fixed...Our front 7 won't be playing downhill.

I think it's the other way around...

Dee Dub
02-05-2014, 02:11 PM
Not sure an Offense that sets all those records is "1 dimensional"
like ur mock draft though! :-D

Broncos had 49 passes and 13 designed rushes in the Super Bowl. That's pretty one dimensional. And during the season the passed 675 times to 429 rushes....and a lot of those runs plays were called after they were up big in many of their games.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-05-2014, 03:01 PM
I think it's the other way around...

We will have to agree to disagree on that.

Many of you are missing the many complexities of football when you sit & watch a game. There is allot more than run or pass the ball into the endzone & try to stop them going on.

When Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor, Earl Thomas, & Byron Maxewell/Walter Thurmond stay of the field when offenses trot out 21,12, & even 11 personnel...That is ZERO indication of what the front 7 brings to the defense. That is TOTAL confidence in your secondary & LBs can play Cover 1 & Cover 0. That leaves your base guys of Irvin, Wagner, Smith, Bryant, McDaniel, Mebane, & Clemons on the field. That means the offense personnel packages did not dictate your defense & you could play down & distance football. That means the strategic planning of trying to spread them out so you could run just worked in the defenses advantage if you want to run. If you try & pass and test that secondary & LB in coverage...You face a minimum of 4 DL pass rushers. If the DC has great confidence in that secondary, which Dan Quinn does, you send 2 LBs with those 4 DL & force 3 step drops. If the QB tries to go to a 5 step drop & hold the ball he will face pressure up the middle & make errant throws off his back foot. It is a great recipe for a great defense. Only capable with a talented secondary like the Seahawks.

If you would have put Clark, Polamalu, Taylor, & Gay/Allen behind the front 7 in the SB...Manning would have thrown for 5 TDs if the Hawks stayed with the philosophy. Here's the kicker...The Steelers front 7 playing in front of that secondary would have produced similar results to what you saw on SB Sunday. Its like a balance scale in todays NFL. If you compensate one direction for weakness you pay on the other side. The closer you get to balance in base the more productive your defense will be. Right now...Our bigger weakness is in the backend because of age & lack of speed. It was exploited early in the year especially when the Steelers tried to play cover 1 against Brady. The Steelers compensated by going to nickel against offensive personnel groupings (When they shouldn't have to) but that made the defense more suspect to the run...Which was also exploited.

The solution is obvious but not so simple with limited draft possibilities & salary cap. For the starting front 7...Retain Worilds & Hood. Step 1 would be 2 new faces in the secondary at FS & CB. That would improve the 2013 front 7 alone. FA or Draft..Has to be the focus. You do that & plug in a true NT & answer the questions at the ILB opposite Timmons....You could see a defense VERY similar to the Hawks defense running around Hines Field in Black & Gold. The question isn't what to do....But how to do it as it relates to FA ,Draft, or rostered player. If anything, we could all agree that a new face at FS, CB, & NT will be filled in FA/Draft.The ILB spot can't be answered by us because we don't know what they feel about Spence...If they feel Foote is in their plans for 2014...Or if they feel Williams is the answer. I think that answer will come at draft by whom the do or do not pick.

K Train
02-05-2014, 03:14 PM
We will have to agree to disagree on that.

Many of you are missing the many complexities of football when you sit & watch a game. There is allot more than run or pass the ball into the endzone & try to stop them going on.

When Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor, Earl Thomas, & Byron Maxewell/Walter Thurmond stay of the field when offenses trot out 21,12, & even 11 personnel...That is ZERO indication of what the front 7 brings to the defense. That is TOTAL confidence in your secondary & LBs can play Cover 1 & Cover 0. That leaves your base guys of Irvin, Wagner, Smith, Bryant, McDaniel, Mebane, & Clemons on the field. That means the offense personnel packages did not dictate your defense & you could play down & distance football. That means the strategic planning of trying to spread them out so you could run just worked in the defenses advantage if you want to run. If you try & pass and test that secondary & LB in coverage...You face a minimum of 4 DL pass rushers. If the DC has great confidence in that secondary, which Dan Quinn does, you send 2 LBs with those 4 DL & force 3 step drops. If the QB tries to go to a 5 step drop & hold the ball he will face pressure up the middle & make errant throws off his back foot. It is a great recipe for a great defense. Only capable with a talented secondary like the Seahawks.

If you would have put Clark, Polamalu, Taylor, & Gay/Allen behind the front 7 in the SB...Manning would have thrown for 5 TDs if the Hawks stayed with the philosophy. Here's the kicker...The Steelers front 7 playing in front of that secondary would have produced similar results to what you saw on SB Sunday. Its like a balance scale in todays NFL. If you compensate one direction for weakness you pay on the other side. The closer you get to balance in base the more productive your defense will be. Right now...Our bigger weakness is in the backend because of age & lack of speed. It was exploited early in the year especially when the Steelers tried to play cover 1 against Brady. The Steelers compensated by going to nickel against offensive personnel groupings (When they shouldn't have to) but that made the defense more suspect to the run...Which was also exploited.

The solution is obvious but not so simple with limited draft possibilities & salary cap. For the starting front 7...Retain Worilds & Hood. Step 1 would be 2 new faces in the secondary at FS & CB. That would improve the 2013 front 7 alone. FA or Draft..Has to be the focus. You do that & plug in a true NT & answer the questions at the ILB opposite Timmons....You could see a defense VERY similar to the Hawks defense running around Hines Field in Black & Gold. The question isn't what to do....But how to do it as it relates to FA ,Draft, or rostered player. If anything, we could all agree that a new face at FS, CB, & NT will be filled in FA/Draft.The ILB spot can't be answered by us because we don't know what they feel about Spence...If they feel Foote is in their plans for 2014...Or if they feel Williams is the answer. I think that answer will come at draft by whom the do or do not pick.
I get what you are saying here and I agree to an extent, but the deep cover 1 they can play doesnt come overnight. Pete runs a brilliant scheme, but those big ass corners and a rangy FS like thomas is essential to what they do. The problem is, in order to duplicate that kind of scheme lebeau would have to alter what he does, which is not going to happen.

I believe the steeler have one of the premier DLinemen in the league in Heyward, and they have a top 5 MLB in timmons, but they are seriously lacking elswhere. I think Jones and Cortez are going to be good ones, but seattle did work in building that defense with thomas, sherman, bryant, avril, irvin, chancellor..ect. No way they can keep that together very long

I think hood should be let go, he is terrible.

Worilds needs to be retained. They are in a very awkward spot with defense right now with the guys that were absolute cogs in the 05/08 teams are on their way out or already gone. Its a vicious cycle but one decent defensive draft and they can right the ship. Cant be drafting Bruce Davis's though, need to bring in a few big time hits

feltdizz
02-05-2014, 05:04 PM
We will have to agree to disagree on that.

Many of you are missing the many complexities of football when you sit & watch a game. There is allot more than run or pass the ball into the endzone & try to stop them going on.

When Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor, Earl Thomas, & Byron Maxewell/Walter Thurmond stay of the field when offenses trot out 21,12, & even 11 personnel...That is ZERO indication of what the front 7 brings to the defense. That is TOTAL confidence in your secondary & LBs can play Cover 1 & Cover 0. That leaves your base guys of Irvin, Wagner, Smith, Bryant, McDaniel, Mebane, & Clemons on the field. That means the offense personnel packages did not dictate your defense & you could play down & distance football. That means the strategic planning of trying to spread them out so you could run just worked in the defenses advantage if you want to run. If you try & pass and test that secondary & LB in coverage...You face a minimum of 4 DL pass rushers. If the DC has great confidence in that secondary, which Dan Quinn does, you send 2 LBs with those 4 DL & force 3 step drops. If the QB tries to go to a 5 step drop & hold the ball he will face pressure up the middle & make errant throws off his back foot. It is a great recipe for a great defense. Only capable with a talented secondary like the Seahawks.

If you would have put Clark, Polamalu, Taylor, & Gay/Allen behind the front 7 in the SB...Manning would have thrown for 5 TDs if the Hawks stayed with the philosophy. Here's the kicker...The Steelers front 7 playing in front of that secondary would have produced similar results to what you saw on SB Sunday. Its like a balance scale in todays NFL. If you compensate one direction for weakness you pay on the other side. The closer you get to balance in base the more productive your defense will be. Right now...Our bigger weakness is in the backend because of age & lack of speed. It was exploited early in the year especially when the Steelers tried to play cover 1 against Brady. The Steelers compensated by going to nickel against offensive personnel groupings (When they shouldn't have to) but that made the defense more suspect to the run...Which was also exploited.

The solution is obvious but not so simple with limited draft possibilities & salary cap. For the starting front 7...Retain Worilds & Hood. Step 1 would be 2 new faces in the secondary at FS & CB. That would improve the 2013 front 7 alone. FA or Draft..Has to be the focus. You do that & plug in a true NT & answer the questions at the ILB opposite Timmons....You could see a defense VERY similar to the Hawks defense running around Hines Field in Black & Gold. The question isn't what to do....But how to do it as it relates to FA ,Draft, or rostered player. If anything, we could all agree that a new face at FS, CB, & NT will be filled in FA/Draft.The ILB spot can't be answered by us because we don't know what they feel about Spence...If they feel Foote is in their plans for 2014...Or if they feel Williams is the answer. I think that answer will come at draft by whom the do or do not pick.

Peyton was 19 0f 26 for 243 yards with 2 TD's vs Steelers in Denver in 2012.

No way he throws for 5 against us with the Seattle pass rush. He would've had a little more success but not much.

NorthCoast
02-05-2014, 07:49 PM
Peyton was 19 0f 26 for 243 yards with 2 TD's vs Steelers in Denver in 2012.

No way he throws for 5 against us with the Seattle pass rush. He would've had a little more success but not much.

Woodley has been non-existent 3 yrs running... Harrison was hurt early last year. Pass rush has been pathetic for 3 yrs straight. The only bright spot has been Heyward and an occasional McClendon.
I believe Avril is a FA this year.... maybe the Steelers make an offer? Make a great defense weaker while improving their own....

Slapstick
02-06-2014, 06:59 AM
Avril has one more year with Seattle...

Oviedo
02-06-2014, 09:37 AM
Woodley has been non-existent 3 yrs running... Harrison was hurt early last year. Pass rush has been pathetic for 3 yrs straight. The only bright spot has been Heyward and an occasional McClendon.
I believe Avril is a FA this year.... maybe the Steelers make an offer? Make a great defense weaker while improving their own....

The Steelers have no money for a player like Avril (I don't think he is a FA) even though that is exactly what they need.

phillyesq
02-06-2014, 10:16 AM
I hate to even think about Avril. The Steelers had him in for a pre-draft visit, and he was on the board in the third when their selection came up. And they drafted Bruce Davis.

papillon
02-06-2014, 01:52 PM
I hate to even think about Avril. The Steelers had him in for a pre-draft visit, and he was on the board in the third when their selection came up. And they drafted Bruce Davis.

I'm assuming you think the Steelers missed on that pick? :p

Pappy

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-06-2014, 01:58 PM
Peyton was 19 0f 26 for 243 yards with 2 TD's vs Steelers in Denver in 2012.

No way he throws for 5 against us with the Seattle pass rush. He would've had a little more success but not much.

And I will agree with you that the Steelers 2012 secondary wouldn't allow Manning to throw for 5....But you can't turn back the clock on players. Without a doubt Manning would have lit the 2013 secondary up! He would have been able to get off from his 3 step drops because the Steelers have to play off man Cover 2.

Our 2012 secondary of Polamalu, Clark, Taylor, & Lewis was one of the best we have seen as of late. Clark, Polamalu, & Taylor looked ageless in 2012....But what a difference a year makes! Clark didn't play that game...Mundy started. The Steelers played "keep away" that game...Don't you remember the Steelers held the ball for like 11 minutes longer? Manning only attempted 26 passes in that game because the Steelers O kept him off the field. The Steelers were in it until the pick 6 by Porter.

Again, No need to speculate...We played the Patriots THIS year and Brady pile up 4 TDs on this secondary. You remember that game don't you? The game where three players went over 100 yards receiving for the Pats. Btw...The Steelers had 3 sacks that game. Can't cut it, slice it, flavor that any way but bad secondary. The Steelers even tried to put Troy in Cover 1 and Brady looked one way & passed back the other. Troy had NO range to cover both sidelines. It was after that game where DL started to find a way to keep Troy on the field & play to his strengths in pass coverage. Which is 15 yards off the LOS in LB drop zones where he could use his instincts and short area burst to make plays. They went Cover 2 behind it with Clark & W Allen.

You guys are all screaming Hawks pass rush makes the secondary look good. That isn't the case. They are very balanced...that makes them so good. The impact is secondary to front 7 hands down. The Seahawks were 8th overall in sacks this year with 44. The Steelers were 25th with 34. The Hawks had only had 4 sacks all post season. You know what the did lead in through the post season? The lead in INTs & PDEF. They doubled the other teams that played 3 games in PDEfs. The Hawks were 5th overall in the regular season with 114 PDEfs. 1st place team had 120 PDEFs. The Steelers were 20th with 82. Here's the hammer that squashes it all. Hawks were 1st in INTs with 28. The Steelers forgot the season started & came in 29th with 10. Hawks 1st in TO at 39...Steelers 29th at 20. The Hawks are a big play defense with the splash plays coming in the secondary. Once upon a time...So were the Steelers. The Steelers have been lacking for several years...because they got old & slow in the back end.

Bang the table all you want about fixing the front 7 will help this secondary...That isn't the case. We aren't talking about building a 3-4 defense from scratch. Evaluating whats here & what we need to turn the corner. When you secondary averages 32 years old & your front 7 averages 25 years old....That's a Red Flag. Can't fix Father Time!

feltdizz
02-06-2014, 02:09 PM
Sorry JPN.. I disagree.

Great article that gives good info on how good and versatile this front 7 is...
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/12/6/5181238/seattle-seahawks-defense-nfc-breakdown

Also have to account for QB pressures..it's much easier to defend passes when the QB can't step into throws and is running for his life.

Oviedo
02-06-2014, 02:26 PM
And I will agree with you that the Steelers 2012 secondary wouldn't allow Manning to throw for 5....But you can't turn back the clock on players. Without a doubt Manning would have lit the 2013 secondary up! He would have been able to get off from his 3 step drops because the Steelers have to play off man Cover 2.

Our 2012 secondary of Polamalu, Clark, Taylor, & Lewis was one of the best we have seen as of late. Clark, Polamalu, & Taylor looked ageless in 2012....But what a difference a year makes! Clark didn't play that game...Mundy started. The Steelers played "keep away" that game...Don't you remember the Steelers held the ball for like 11 minutes longer? Manning only attempted 26 passes in that game because the Steelers O kept him off the field. The Steelers were in it until the pick 6 by Porter.

Again, No need to speculate...We played the Patriots THIS year and Brady pile up 4 TDs on this secondary. You remember that game don't you? The game where three players went over 100 yards receiving for the Pats. Btw...The Steelers had 3 sacks that game. Can't cut it, slice it, flavor that any way but bad secondary. The Steelers even tried to put Troy in Cover 1 and Brady looked one way & passed back the other. Troy had NO range to cover both sidelines. It was after that game where DL started to find a way to keep Troy on the field & play to his strengths in pass coverage. Which is 15 yards off the LOS in LB drop zones where he could use his instincts and short area burst to make plays. They went Cover 2 behind it with Clark & W Allen.

You guys are all screaming Hawks pass rush makes the secondary look good. That isn't the case. They are very balanced...that makes them so good. The impact is secondary to front 7 hands down. The Seahawks were 8th overall in sacks this year with 44. The Steelers were 25th with 34. The Hawks had only had 4 sacks all post season. You know what the did lead in through the post season? The lead in INTs & PDEF. They doubled the other teams that played 3 games in PDEfs. The Hawks were 5th overall in the regular season with 114 PDEfs. 1st place team had 120 PDEFs. The Steelers were 20th with 82. Here's the hammer that squashes it all. Hawks were 1st in INTs with 28. The Steelers forgot the season started & came in 29th with 10. Hawks 1st in TO at 39...Steelers 29th at 20. The Hawks are a big play defense with the splash plays coming in the secondary. Once upon a time...So were the Steelers. The Steelers have been lacking for several years...because they got old & slow in the back end.

Bang the table all you want about fixing the front 7 will help this secondary...That isn't the case. We aren't talking about building a 3-4 defense from scratch. Evaluating whats here & what we need to turn the corner. When you secondary averages 32 years old & your front 7 averages 25 years old....That's a Red Flag. Can't fix Father Time!


I'd prefer CB or even Safety over Def Line in this draft. Our secondary is not good...bottom line. Our FS is gone. Our SS plays LB half the time. Both our CBs are inconsistent. If we go defnse at #15 we need to pay attention to the back end of the defense. We can get a NT later.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-06-2014, 03:00 PM
Sorry JPN.. I disagree.

Great article that gives good info on how good and versatile this front 7 is...
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/12/6/5181238/seattle-seahawks-defense-nfc-breakdown (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/12/6/5181238/seattle-seahawks-defense-nfc-breakdown)

Also have to account for QB pressures..it's much easier to defend passes when the QB can't step into throws and is running for his life.

Well we could agree to disagree....But the link you used to help your argument supports mine.

It was a combination of things. The Seahawks' well-known secondary (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/9/20/4747480/richard-sherman-nfl-darelle-revis-seahawks-cornerback) certainly did their part to limit Brees and the Saints' explosive passing game, but with a well-rounded and resourceful offense like that of New Orleans, you really need a solid effort from every positional group on the defense to throw a wrench in the Saints' gears. Seattle's versatile front seven played a huge role in this. Basically, with Brees unable to pass deep against Richard Sherman (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/131657/richard-sherman), Earl Thomas (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/108652/earl-thomas), and the rest of secondary with much effectiveness, Sean Payton and the Saints turned to their trusty intermediate and short passing game. Seattle's linebacking corps and defensive line completely shut that down as well.

feltdizz
02-06-2014, 03:17 PM
Well we could agree to disagree....But the link you used to help your argument supports mine.

It was a combination of things. The Seahawks' well-known secondary (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/9/20/4747480/richard-sherman-nfl-darelle-revis-seahawks-cornerback) certainly did their part to limit Brees and the Saints' explosive passing game, but with a well-rounded and resourceful offense like that of New Orleans, you really need a solid effort from every positional group on the defense to throw a wrench in the Saints' gears. Seattle's versatile front seven played a huge role in this. Basically, with Brees unable to pass deep against Richard Sherman (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/131657/richard-sherman), Earl Thomas (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/108652/earl-thomas), and the rest of secondary with much effectiveness, Sean Payton and the Saints turned to their trusty intermediate and short passing game. Seattle's linebacking corps and defensive line completely shut that down as well.

I feel you... and I'm not saying our DB's are as good as Seattle (obviously) but I think the front 7 helps them tremendously and even if they had our 4 guys back there Peyton wouldn't pick them apart. Dude was struggling to step into throws and his completions were basically screen passes. It's not like he had all day to throw like Brady did when he played us.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-06-2014, 04:16 PM
I feel you... and I'm not saying our DB's are as good as Seattle (obviously) but I think the front 7 helps them tremendously and even if they had our 4 guys back there Peyton wouldn't pick them apart. Dude was struggling to step into throws and his completions were basically screen passes. It's not like he had all day to throw like Brady did when he played us.

I agree...There is no doubt the front 7 helps the back end...That is achieved through balance. When I see a 3-5 step QB patting the ball & going to his 2nd, 3rd, & 4th read...That tells me the guys aren't coming open & that allows the rush to get there. When the D is playing off man or just not very good in man...He isn't patting the ball or it is coming out on his second read...The rush never gets there. That has been script we have seen over the last couple years when we play the "pocket passers".

We will leave it at that. We both agree they need help in the front & back end. We just see the importance of what need to be done first with this roster in reverse. I have no dounts they need new faces at FS & CB in 2014. They could use an upgrade at NT & ILB but they have serviceable pieces there for 2014 if the get the FS & CB. I just don't see the reverse of new faces at NT & ILB having an impact with the same 4 faces in the secondary. I think my scenario gets them into the playoffs to make a run...I think the other scenario is another 8-8 or worse. That's my opinion.

feltdizz
02-06-2014, 04:19 PM
I agree...There is no doubt the front 7 helps the back end...That is achieved through balance. When I see a 3-5 step QB patting the ball & going to his 2nd, 3rd, & 4th read...That tells me the guys aren't coming open & that allows the rush to get there. When the D is playing off man or just not very good in man...He isn't patting the ball or it is coming out on his second read...The rush never gets there. That has been script we have seen over the last couple years when we play the "pocket passers".

We will leave it at that. We both agree they need help in the front & back end. We just see the importance of what need to be done first with this roster in reverse. I have no dounts they need new faces at FS & CB in 2014. They could use an upgrade at NT & ILB but they have serviceable pieces there for 2014 if the get the FS & CB. I just don't see the reverse of new faces at NT & ILB having an impact with the same 4 faces in the secondary. I think my scenario gets them into the playoffs to make a run...I think the other scenario is another 8-8 or worse. That's my opinion.


I prefer NT/ILB high in the draft and FS & CB through FA. I don't think there is a FS & CB could draft that would start day 1.

Oviedo
02-06-2014, 04:48 PM
I prefer NT/ILB high in the draft and FS & CB through FA. I don't think there is a FS & CB could draft that would start day 1.


Is there any defensive player we would draft who starts Day 1? Day 2? Day 3? Etc?

Everyone thought that J Jones was that player and we saw how that worked didn't we. Everyone though "Shark" would be on the field, how'd that work? Don't need to spend pick #15 on another "watch and learn and get bigger" player when you can get someone who could really contribute his rookie year.

flippy
02-06-2014, 06:36 PM
Is there any defensive player we would draft who starts Day 1? Day 2? Day 3? Etc?

Everyone thought that J Jones was that player and we saw how that worked didn't we. Everyone though "Shark" would be on the field, how'd that work? Don't need to spend pick #15 on another "watch and learn and get bigger" player when you can get someone who could really contribute his rookie year.

I don't think the Steelers expect any rookie to come in and play from day 1. I think you just have to take the best football player you can find and play him when he's ready.

I do think if we drafted a NT, ILB, or FS at 15, they would get a legit shot to compete if they were ready to play.

K Train
02-06-2014, 07:12 PM
I prefer NT/ILB high in the draft and FS & CB through FA. I don't think there is a FS & CB could draft that would start day 1.

Id like them to give malcolm jenkins and donte whitner a look

feltdizz
02-06-2014, 07:45 PM
Is there any defensive player we would draft who starts Day 1? Day 2? Day 3? Etc?

Everyone thought that J Jones was that player and we saw how that worked didn't we. Everyone though "Shark" would be on the field, how'd that work? Don't need to spend pick #15 on another "watch and learn and get bigger" player when you can get someone who could really contribute his rookie year.

Do you think a TE or WR will start on day one? I doubt it. While I do believe its easier to get PT on O but impact? I doubt it.

I remember asking you about Eifert and you pretty much forgave his lack of production because he was a second option. I understand your frustration with our D but you cant bash JJ for a lack of impact while ho humming a guy you trumped as a can't miss at TE.

I definitely think an NT or ILB could start on day one because we don't have much in front of them.

K Train
02-06-2014, 07:48 PM
Ebron would work the slot more than he would be a "TE"...its adding a big weapon, not just another TE.

He would be less risky than Evans or Benjamin imo.....Moncreif in 2 is my favorite scenario though <3

feltdizz
02-06-2014, 08:17 PM
Ebron would work the slot more than he would be a "TE"...its adding a big weapon, not just another TE.

He would be less risky than Evans or Benjamin imo.....Moncreif in 2 is my favorite scenario though <3

Sorry but I don't see it when looking at our needs. I know his QB was suspect but 3TD's in the ACC? No thanks.

Every year we hear about this beast TE because of what NE was able to do but as long as we have Miller its a wasted pick IMO.

K Train
02-06-2014, 08:38 PM
miller clearly wasnt himself last year, id expect him to bounce back and haley LOVES him.....but hes not getting any younger.

I think the offense needs a weapon to help brown out, the team is going nowhere force feeding it to antonio. THats just what he is, a weapon. I am very high on Ebron and ASJ, but ASJ is more of a TE which would be a wasted pick, Ebron is more of a WR that we can call a TE and pay him less

Oviedo
02-06-2014, 09:58 PM
Do you think a TE or WR will start on day one? I doubt it. While I do believe its easier to get PT on O but impact? I doubt it.

I remember asking you about Eifert and you pretty much forgave his lack of production because he was a second option. I understand your frustration with our D but you cant bash JJ for a lack of impact while ho humming a guy you trumped as a can't miss at TE.

I definitely think an NT or ILB could start on day one because we don't have much in front of them.

39 receptions, 11+ yards per catch is far from lack of production. He would have been the 5th leading recdeiving on our team last year and he had 2 TD receptions to Heath's 1. Can't tell me that could not of made a difference in getting a couple wins to get us into the play offs.

And J. Jones did what, one sack and then riding then bench? However he did hustle so I guess that gives him bonus points right? No it doesn't. Eifert would have done more to get this team into the play offs last than Jones and I'll go one step further and say he does more again in 2014 than Jones.

feltdizz
02-06-2014, 10:11 PM
We gave Eifert a TD on blown coverage...

and no, he wouldn't have got us to the playoffs. Once again we see other draft picks winning games while ours lost games. Jones never rode the bench, he didnt start but he played a ton compared to most rookies on D.

I'm not happy with JJs production but I'm not going to lie to myself to make Eifert into some beast of a TE last year who would march us into the playoffs.

Steelhere10
02-06-2014, 10:38 PM
The only difference is we play 10 yds off on the corners and one juke move or broken tackle and is a big play. Seattle man up and tackle the catch there's a difference. Two different styles.

Slapstick
02-07-2014, 12:10 AM
The difference is successful tackling...in man coverage, Seattle is one tackle away from a big play...they simply made tackles....

pittpete
02-07-2014, 12:54 AM
Just out of curiosity, how do you judge if a CB is good or not in our defense?

feltdizz
02-07-2014, 09:48 AM
The difference is successful tackling...in man coverage, Seattle is one tackle away from a big play...they simply made tackles....

it sure seemed like most of the tackles they made had 3 or 4 defenders in on it.

papillon
02-07-2014, 11:30 AM
The difference is successful tackling...in man coverage, Seattle is one tackle away from a big play...they simply made tackles....

It seemed that there were very few one on one tackles, the Seattle defense was flying to the ball to minimize any YAC if the first tackle was missed. It looked like there was always 2 or 3 tacklers around the ball carrier. It would have taken more than one missed tackle to get a big play against them in the SB, IMHO.

Pappy

Oviedo
02-07-2014, 01:51 PM
We gave Eifert a TD on blown coverage...

and no, he wouldn't have got us to the playoffs. Once again we see other draft picks winning games while ours lost games. Jones never rode the bench, he didnt start but he played a ton compared to most rookies on D.

I'm not happy with JJs production but I'm not going to lie to myself to make Eifert into some beast of a TE last year who would march us into the playoffs.

No one said Eifert was a "beast" what was said was that he would have made more of a positive impact to this team than Jones did if he brought those same stats. With Heath being out, Eifert could have had even better stats. We will never know but you can't in any way try to say that Jones' rookie season was a positive for this team in actual production.

feltdizz
02-07-2014, 01:59 PM
No one said Eifert was a "beast" what was said was that he would have made more of a positive impact to this team than Jones did if he brought those same stats. With Heath being out, Eifert could have had even better stats. We will never know but you can't in any way try to say that Jones' rookie season was a positive for this team in actual production.

I agree... and this is why I said his snaps were a positive. At least he saw the field and we should see an improvement once he learns all the nuances of this D.

Oviedo
02-07-2014, 04:52 PM
I agree... and this is why I said his snaps were a positive. At least he saw the field and we should see an improvement once he learns all the nuances of this D.


You have far more confidence in him than I do. I see him as too lean to be able to beat the Left Tackles in this league. Maybe the weight room bulks him up, butwouldn't count on him for double digit sacks year after year.

feltdizz
02-07-2014, 04:55 PM
You have far more confidence in him than I do. I see him as too lean to be able to beat the Left Tackles in this league. Maybe the weight room bulks him up, butwouldn't count on him for double digit sacks year after year.

He acknowledged that he needs to bulk up... and you of all people should know how rookies tend to look their first year. Troy was a bust his first year as well...