PG+: Tomlin's postgame admission sheds light on personnel woes

[steelz09]

Ray: Tomlin's postgame admission sheds light on personnel woes (http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/122905-ray-tomlins-postgame-admission-sheds-light-on-personnel-woes)
MONDAY, 30 SEPTEMBER 2013 07:57
WRITTEN BY RAY FITTIPALDOhttp://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/templates/pg_twn/images/emailButton.png (http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/component/mailto/?tmpl=component&link=044a4600bc1208ee7343a6255adaec14a2f7b21d)


Good morning:

After another game when the franchise quarterback failed to come through in the clutch, when the defense got gouged by big plays from a previous winless team playing a backup quarterback, the thing that struck me most after the game was something Mike Tomlin said in his postgame news conference.

Tomlin was posed a question about his ineffective left tackle Mike Adams, who remained in the game after being continually beat in pass protection. Tomlin’s explanation was there were no other options because Kelvin Beachum, the top reserve on the line, had to enter the game at guard when Ramon Foster was injured in the first half.

“Anybody else we would have put in there would have been below the line of preparation, so there's no answers in that regard," Tomlin said.
Really?

First question: Why is Guy Whimper dressed for the game, or even on the roster, if he is not an option to play guard?
Second question: How in the world can the coaching staff be so ill-prepared for such a situation?
Anyone who has watched this team play in recent years knows injuries to offensive linemen have been a problem. Tomlin and offensive coordinator Todd Haley decided to only dress two reserves for the game – Beachum, the top reserve at all five positions on the line, and Whimper, a trained tackle who has been practicing at guard since training camp.
Dressing only seven linemen is not out of the ordinary in the NFL, but dressing one who apparently is not an option to play unless there is an emergency seems a bit odd.

If Whimper cannot play guard well enough in a game I am not sure why he is on the 53-man roster in the first place. But the fact that Tomlin admitted the coaches were only prepared for one injury on the line is staggering. Tomlin has coached teams when injuries have forced more than one reserve lineman into action in a game. Those teams had answers in the reserves. This one apparently does not.
That doesn’t shine well on the coaches or the player personnel department whose job it is to find capable players to fill key roles in spite of the team’s salary cap restraints.

The Steelers signed Cody Wallace to replace John Malecki after the preseason, and Wallace has not dressed for a game yet. Either he is a slow learner and has trouble picking up the offense, or he too has been deemed not good enough to play.
Which brings us to another question regarding this tattered line: how did the talent get so depleted in a short time?
Everyone knows the Steelers won the Super Bowl in 2008 with an offensive line that was less than ideal. They made it back to the big game again two years later with a similar line. But those lines did not have as many problems protecting Ben Roethlisberger, and it certainly had players who were able to step in during games when injuries occurred.

Former offensive line coach Sean Kugler was hailed for his ability to make patchwork lines work in the face of adversity. Kugler left the team after last season to become the head coach at his alma mater, UTEP. Tomlin hired Jack Bicknell to replace him. To this point, Bicknell has not found the answers, and there don’t appear to be any forthcoming for a team that is 0-4 for the first time since 1968.

[feltdizz]

Still wondering why we didn't give Adams help

[steelz09]

Whimper was signed instead of keeping Starks.

Whimper was ranked as the worst T in the league last year.

Whimper was moved to G during training camp.

So its proven that he can't play T. But..... If he can't play G by now, freeing up Beachum to play T then why is he dressing? Why is he even on the roster?

[Ghost]

"Anybody else we would have put in there would have been below the line of preparation, so there's no answers in that regard" - Tomlin.

It's the 4th week of the season and the coaching staff has just admitted that they don't have a single player that can come in and play tackle in a game scenario b/c they only dress ONE back-up for all positions. Beachum is literally the back up Tackle, Guard and Center. How insane is this?

You have Whimper dressing and they are afraid to put him in. Afraid. How @#$^ awful must he be that they can't trust him enough to spell Adams for even a play after the whipping Adams was taking? And instead of keeping Malecki (who's no savior but was on the roster from November on last year) they bring in C. Wallace (another team's re-tread) and then don't dress him for a single game. Why do we have Joe Long on the Practice Squad - is he really a worse tackle than a player they won't put into a game even after an injury or one they never dress?

I've always been a Tomlin supporter but this is one of the more embarrassing things I've heard come out of a coach's mouth in a very long time. If you're dressing guys for games that are so ill prepared to play you refuse to put them in; you're team is in shambles (at least at that position).

[Sword]

This is so disturbing.......Don't even no where to start....

[feltdizz]

"Anybody else we would have put in there would have been below the line of preparation, so there's no answers in that regard" - Tomlin.

It's the 4th week of the season and the coaching staff has just admitted that they don't have a single player that can come in and play tackle in a game scenario b/c they only dress ONE back-up for all positions. Beachum is literally the back up Tackle, Guard and Center. How insane is this?

You have Whimper dressing and they are afraid to put him in. Afraid. How @#$^ awful must he be that they can't trust him enough to spell Adams for even a play after the whipping Adams was taking? And instead of keeping Malecki (who's no savior but was on the roster from November on last year) they bring in C. Wallace (another team's re-tread) and then don't dress him for a single game. Why do we have Joe Long on the Practice Squad - is he really a worse tackle than a player they won't put into a game even after an injury or one they never dress?

I've always been a Tomlin supporter but this is one of the more embarrassing things I've heard come out of a coach's mouth in a very long time. If you're dressing guys for games that are so ill prepared to play you refuse to put them in; you're team is in shambles (at least at that position).

True... but it also says a lot about our salary cap issue. IMO this team looks like we had enough money to sign 18 to 20 starters and everyone else is here on the cheap.

[JB13]

[B][COLOR=#ff0000]
I've always been a Tomlin supporter but this is one of the more embarrassing things I've heard come out of a coach's mouth in a very long time. If you're dressing guys for games that are so ill prepared to play you refuse to put them in; you're team is in shambles (at least at that position).

Tomlin is a great coach as long as things are going well. When adversity strikes, he seems to lack ideas to turn the tide. He says things like "unleash hell," but it's all about big show, no results. As time goes on and the most recent SB appearance gets farther away, his shortcomings become more glaring.

[BradshawsHairdresser]

Whoever is responsible for only preparing for one OL injury--Bicknell, Haley, Tomlin--maybe all three of them--needs to be held accountable.

Tomlin seems to me to be clueless. I don't think the Rooneys would ever fire him, though...

[BradshawsHairdresser]

True... but it also says a lot about our salary cap issue. IMO this team looks like we had enough money to sign 18 to 20 starters and everyone else is here on the cheap.

We have 8 players taking up about half the cap space (see my thread). Those high-paid players aren't playing as they're getting paid to, and their salaries have prevented us from adding other players who could help.

[Steelhere10]

If you guys are really relying on Whimper to play and he really sucks then it says more about the talent than it does the preparation. Don't get me wrong all the coaches are failing LeBeau and Tomlin included but this speaks more on the Colbert and the personnel department.

[Slapstick]

Both of the previous posts are indictments of the FO...

[steelsnis]

This is all about one word: TALENT. This team lacks talent. Blame the coaches all you wan't but it's hard to make chicken salad out of chicken sh!t. There's no need for knee-jerk reactions here either "Fire Tomlin! Fire Colbert! Fire the Rooney's!!!" Nope. This game is about cycles. Teams just can not stay great for a long time in this league.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is about a lack of quality talent and depth. Feltdizz was absolutely right in his post above. Sure, we have our share of top flight talent, but the lack of quality depth is what's crushing us right now. Injuries are a massive part of the NFL landscape. If you are paying your top-line players big money, you simply can't afford to have real quality depth on the team.

When a team like the Steelers has been good for a long time, they are forced to pay their top players a lot of money. When that happens, it affects the team elsewhere and you lose depth. For me, I'm happy to have a few down years as a trade-off for 3 Superbowl appearances and 2 Superbowl wins in the last 9 years. Obviously I'd like to win it all every year, who wouldn't? But that's not the reality in today's NFL. You can't develop young talent and stash them as depth anymore. When injuries or free-agent defections occur it's just not realistic to think that the replacement will be as good as the player he's replacing was. Can he develop into a better player than his predecessor? Absolutely! But it takes time to do so. That's what's happening now. Some of the younger players are playing some bad football (as young players almost always do) but that's how they learn. Back in the day the Steelers could afford to stash young guys on the bench and only install them as starters when the vets moved on. Much harder to do that now.

[Oviedo]

"Anybody else we would have put in there would have been below the line of preparation, so there's no answers in that regard" - Tomlin.

It's the 4th week of the season and the coaching staff has just admitted that they don't have a single player that can come in and play tackle in a game scenario b/c they only dress ONE back-up for all positions. Beachum is literally the back up Tackle, Guard and Center. How insane is this?

You have Whimper dressing and they are afraid to put him in. Afraid. How @#$^ awful must he be that they can't trust him enough to spell Adams for even a play after the whipping Adams was taking? And instead of keeping Malecki (who's no savior but was on the roster from November on last year) they bring in C. Wallace (another team's re-tread) and then don't dress him for a single game. Why do we have Joe Long on the Practice Squad - is he really a worse tackle than a player they won't put into a game even after an injury or one they never dress?

I've always been a Tomlin supporter but this is one of the more embarrassing things I've heard come out of a coach's mouth in a very long time. If you're dressing guys for games that are so ill prepared to play you refuse to put them in; you're team is in shambles (at least at that position).


Guys--I told you when we ignored OL in the draft that the front office was going with the "wish and hope" strategy on the OL. Total fail on Colbert's part. What is happening shouldn't be a total surprise.

[steelz09]

This is all about one word: TALENT. This team lacks talent. Blame the coaches all you wan't but it's hard to make chicken salad out of chicken sh!t. There's no need for knee-jerk reactions here either "Fire Tomlin! Fire Colbert! Fire the Rooney's!!!" Nope. This game is about cycles. Teams just can not stay great for a long time in this league.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is about a lack of quality talent and depth. Feltdizz was absolutely right in his post above. Sure, we have our share of top flight talent, but the lack of quality depth is what's crushing us right now. Injuries are a massive part of the NFL landscape. If you are paying your top-line players big money, you simply can't afford to have real quality depth on the team.

When a team like the Steelers has been good for a long time, they are forced to pay their top players a lot of money. When that happens, it affects the team elsewhere and you lose depth. For me, I'm happy to have a few down years as a trade-off for 3 Superbowl appearances and 2 Superbowl wins in the last 9 years. Obviously I'd like to win it all every year, who wouldn't? But that's not the reality in today's NFL. You can't develop young talent and stash them as depth anymore. When injuries or free-agent defections occur it's just not realistic to think that the replacement will be as good as the player he's replacing was. Can he develop into a better player than his predecessor? Absolutely! But it takes time to do so. That's what's happening now. Some of the younger players are playing some bad football (as young players almost always do) but that's how they learn. Back in the day the Steelers could afford to stash young guys on the bench and only install them as starters when the vets moved on. Much harder to do that now.

I'm sorry but this is a complete BS argument IMO and just another excuse. Can you really say objectively that this team lacks so much talent that 0-4 is acceptable? The Jaguars lack talent. The same goes for the Giants. The Giants and Steelers are very similar this year. They both have some talent on defense. They both have a franchise QB. They both have some talent at WR. They are a combined 0-8 which is incredible. It's no more acceptable for the Giants to be 0-4 as it is the Steelers.

From a record standpoint, we are no better or worse than the Jaguars. The Jaguars! I'm sorry but we have more talent than several teams. I'm not saying we have talent to win a SB (obviously) but we are not bottom of the barrel from a talent perspective. However, our record is bottom of the barrel and worst in the league.... along with the Giants and the Jaguars. That clearly falls on player execution and coaching. I think we need some more talent (particularly o-line) but talent is not the #1 issue.

[NorthCoast]

Great coaching can make average talent look good. Bad coaching can make good talent look ordinary.

In my opinion, the biggest problem is a leadership void on the team. Having gotten rid of Farrior and Harrison in the same season was a big mistake. Best to stagger the departures. The Steelers have always been good at that. Same goes for the OL. Look at who is the most tenured guy on the line, Foster with 4 years under his belt. There is not a single 'ironman' on the OL and it has been that way for a long time. When Starks started his career at RT, the rest of the line had a combined 24 yrs of experience!! Talk about mentorship, that's the key. Don't underestimate the value of having teammates able to mentor the young guys through these struggles.

[Shawn]

A house cleaning after this season is in order. I hope the Steelers have Cowher's phone number.

[feltdizz]

I'm sorry but this is a complete BS argument IMO and just another excuse. Can you really say objectively that this team lacks so much talent that 0-4 is acceptable? The Jaguars lack talent. The same goes for the Giants. The Giants and Steelers are very similar this year. They both have some talent on defense. They both have a franchise QB. They both have some talent at WR. They are a combined 0-8 which is incredible. It's no more acceptable for the Giants to be 0-4 as it is the Steelers.

From a record standpoint, we are no better or worse than the Jaguars. The Jaguars! I'm sorry but we have more talent than several teams. I'm not saying we have talent to win a SB (obviously) but we are not bottom of the barrel from a talent perspective. However, our record is bottom of the barrel and worst in the league.... along with the Giants and the Jaguars. That clearly falls on player execution and coaching. I think we need some more talent (particularly o-line) but talent is not the #1 issue.

I think it's a combination and all are to blame..players, coaches, FO, etc.

[Shawn]

I think it's a combination and all are to blame..players, coaches, FO, etc.

You are right...enough blame to go around. Players playing poorly, coaches coaching poorly...loser mentality has seeped into the Burgh. We are now the Browns.

[Slapstick]

You are right...enough blame to go around. Players playing poorly, coaches coaching poorly...loser mentality has seeped into the Message Board. We are now the Browns.

Fixed that for you...

[Shawn]

Fixed that for you...

Last time I checked, this message board didn't take the field. The Steelers are 0-4, and they can't blame that one on Crash.

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

I'm sorry but this is a complete BS argument IMO and just another excuse. Can you really say objectively that this team lacks so much talent that 0-4 is acceptable? The Jaguars lack talent. The same goes for the Giants. The Giants and Steelers are very similar this year. They both have some talent on defense. They both have a franchise QB. They both have some talent at WR. They are a combined 0-8 which is incredible. It's no more acceptable for the Giants to be 0-4 as it is the Steelers.

From a record standpoint, we are no better or worse than the Jaguars. The Jaguars! I'm sorry but we have more talent than several teams. I'm not saying we have talent to win a SB (obviously) but we are not bottom of the barrel from a talent perspective. However, our record is bottom of the barrel and worst in the league.... along with the Giants and the Jaguars. That clearly falls on player execution and coaching. I think we need some more talent (particularly o-line) but talent is not the #1 issue.

I would propose that we are ... at the O-line position (along with the Giants who have the same problem). It's not a coincidence that the teams that have been to the SB most in the past 6 years or so are now the ones suffering the most. Add bad drafting/bad luck - and it's easy to see why we are why we are.

Chuck Noll as HC, with Lombardi as DC and Landry as OC, could not do much better (if any) with this team. I can't see how anyone can blame the coaches, at least for our offense, after seeing Adams spaz out on the field yesterday. "The Adams Head Duck" - his contribution to the NFL.

IMO, the people with the money who chose our draft picks are the ones to blame. But maybe not either ... remember we wanted to keep our team together, "for one more run"? Well that cost us good money, and now we are where we are. Was it worth the gamble? Well, at the time, it probably was a supportable strategy.

But it didn't pan out, we don't have that 7th ring, the window has closed, and we are what we are for a few years. So be it.

[Oviedo]

I would propose that we are ... at the O-line position (along with the Giants who have the same problem). It's not a coincidence that the teams that have been to the SB most in the past 6 years or so are now the ones suffering the most. Add bad drafting/bad luck - and it's easy to see why we are why we are.

Chuck Noll as HC, with Lombardi as DC and Landry as OC, could not do much better (if any) with this team. I can't see how anyone can blame the coaches, at least for our offense, after seeing Adams spaz out on the field yesterday. "The Adams Head Duck" - his contribution to the NFL.

IMO, the people with the money who chose our draft picks are the ones to blame. But maybe not either ... remember we wanted to keep our team together, "for one more run"? Well that cost us good money, and now we are where we are. Was it worth the gamble? Well, at the time, it probably was a supportable strategy.

But it didn't pan out, we don't have that 7th ring, the window has closed, and we are what we are for a few years. So be it.

Some rational thought! How dare you post here?

[feltdizz]

I would propose that we are ... at the O-line position (along with the Giants who have the same problem). It's not a coincidence that the teams that have been to the SB most in the past 6 years or so are now the ones suffering the most. Add bad drafting/bad luck - and it's easy to see why we are why we are.

Chuck Noll as HC, with Lombardi as DC and Landry as OC, could not do much better (if any) with this team. I can't see how anyone can blame the coaches, at least for our offense, after seeing Adams spaz out on the field yesterday. "The Adams Head Duck" - his contribution to the NFL.

IMO, the people with the money who chose our draft picks are the ones to blame. But maybe not either ... remember we wanted to keep our team together, "for one more run"? Well that cost us good money, and now we are where we are. Was it worth the gamble? Well, at the time, it probably was a supportable strategy.

But it didn't pan out, we don't have that 7th ring, the window has closed, and we are what we are for a few years. So be it.


:Beer:Beer:Beer:Beer:Beer:Beer:Beer:Beer

[Eddie Spaghetti]

so the tomlin apologists have no answers for this shocking admission from the head ball coach that a key player that dressed was in no way prepared to play?

that is inexcusable for a head coach in the NFL.

hypocrisy and double standards rule the day here on the planet, as usual.

[Slapstick]

You would know...

[pittpete]

Glad Moye didnt dress so Whimper could.....

[Eddie Spaghetti]

Really? How so?

I'm a tomlin guy, but this in inexcusable. Its completely indefensible and anyone without an agenda would admit it.

why is he dressing a guy that has no chance to play?

[steelz09]

Glad Moye didnt dress so Whimper could.....

Wait....You don't agree with dressing a player that is incapable of playing at T (where he was worst in the league last year) or G (where he has had months to prepare)?

If thats the case, you might as well dress up a bum and put him on the Steelers sidelines to collect a payday. It could be like a new charity that the Steelers organization and the NFL can promote. That would actually have more benefit than apparently having Whimper on the sidelines that to the HC's own admissions, is incapable of playing.

[Eddie Spaghetti]

I can't believe tomlin admitted it.

there is no excuse.

[Steel Life]

Sure there is...all the coaches get together & discuss the gameplan, injuries & so forth. From there they decide what personnel they need for the active roster on gameday - it's not throwing darts at a board. It boiled down to the fact that Adams is better than Whimper regardless & it likely would've gotten worse if Whimper were in there. Even considering that, the team was in the game so it's probably best if we stop with the conspiracy theories regarding the selection of the players.


That said, I agree Colbert could have done a much better job both in the draft & with FAs, but they were determined to younger & more athletic, expecting that the investment of good draft picks would pay off. The truth is that regardless of what you may think now, because of the injury to Pouncey - the linchpin of the line both literally & figuratively - the plan that was in place for this line has completely changed. Quality back-up offensive linemen are hard to find & even harder when you don't really have the funds to do it - they were lucky to get Velasco & he's been a great signing so far.

[Eddie Spaghetti]

your missing the point.

tomlin said he wasn't prepared to play.

his words, not mine.

[Slapstick]

That's on the player...

Tomlin has benched ill-prepared players before (Mendenhall)...you would prefer that he put a player who did not prepare well out there?

[Eddie Spaghetti]

are you this dense?

whimper dressed dummy.

[Slapstick]

Your point?

I'm sure that, given another injury on the line, Tomlin would have been forced to put Whimper in against his wishes...

That doesn't make it a good idea...nor does it make him more prepared...

Dummy...

[Eddie Spaghetti]

poor tomlin being forced to play a guy he didn't have prepared.

I'm not the least bit surprised you are defending this.

[Steel Life]

I would guess the staff only sees Whimper as an OG right now & Beachum, who would've been the back-up OT, was already playing. Don't get me wrong, I've hated the Whimper signing forever but it's clear that crappy signing or not, Colbert has no one else to replace him with.

[steelz09]

I would guess the staff only sees Whimper as an OG right now & Beachum, who would've been the back-up OT, was already playing. Don't get me wrong, I've hated the Whimper signing forever but it's clear that crappy signing or not, Colbert has no one else to replace him with.

I still don't get why you wouldn't sign Starks after the Chargers cut him because at a minimum, he provides a LT option as a backup if Adams gets hurt and severely underperforms. That makes no sense to me. He's a better T than Whimper. It's a solid backup plan. Beachum is only one guy so if he has to play due to another injury (like on Sunday), you still have someone that can play tackle. It makes no sense at all.

[Slapstick]

poor tomlin being forced to play a guy he didn't have prepared.

I'm not the least bit surprised you are defending this.

Did Tomlin want Whimper?

Hell, did Tomlin want Haley?

These are the things we don't know...

[squidkid]

Did Tomlin want Whimper?

Hell, did Tomlin want Haley?

These are the things we don't know...

we do know that he hand picked the oline coach................hows that working out?

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

"Tomlin said he wasn't ready to play". What am I missing, it's presumably just telling it like it is, how is that a reflection of Tomlin or the other coaches?

IIRC, Whimper was signed because we a) needed depth, and b) had no $$. Also, do I recall correctly talk on this board that Whimper was the *worst* rated OL in the NFL last year? Was he actually cut already when we found him ... by *Jacksonville*?

The easy explanation for why Whimper didn't take the field is that personnel move didn't pan out, that he really *does* suck eggs, and that all the scouting reports we experts had access to were ... right!

Unless there were absolutely zero alternatives at the time, I think the finger needs to be pointed at the people who decided Whimper was a good signing, not simply the coaches who wound up w/ him in the locker room.

Just my 2 cents.