Only Pittsburgh Steeler fans...

[Dee Dub]

..would say these things about their QB. A man who has led their favorite team to two Super Bowl wins. Only Steeler fans ( not all but many), would say these horrible things about Ben and totally ignore or not understand the fact that he plays behind the worst O-line in football, has no running game, doesnt have any elite play makers, and has an offensive coordinator who never ever took one snap in all his life playing the game of football.

I really dont understand Steeler fans anymore. It looks as if Ben will be this years Mike Wallace to many Steeler fans. How sad.

I for one remember the days of Mark Malone (50.9% career passer), Bubby Brister (54.6% career passer), Neil O'Donnell (57.8% career passer), Mike Tomczak (53.9% career passer), Kent Graham (50.8% career passer), Kordell Stewart (55.8% career passer), and Tommy Maddox (57.2% career passer).

I suspect in 10-20 years there will be many who look back and say Ben was a lot better than what they had given him credit for.

[flippy]

I remember the days when Ben played better. He's made plenty of chicken salad out of chicken sh!t before. Not sure why he can't now. I think it's fair to say Ben's playing sub par right now. I don't see that as taking any credit away from how good he is. But he's clearly in a funk.

[Dee Dub]

I remember the days when Ben played better. He's made plenty of chicken salad out of chicken sh!t before. Not sure why he can't now. I think it's fair to say Ben's playing sub par right now. I don't see that as taking any credit away from how good he is. But he's clearly in a funk.

flip you are just what I was talking about. How you can ignore the facts I posted above are mind boggling. This is by far the worst O-line in all of football. There is no running game what so ever. Take away last night,, Antonio Brown had 7 TD receptions in 40 games played. Emmanuel Sanders? 5 TD receptions in 43 games. Ben's best and most reliable receiver (Heath Miller), played his first game last night.

But hey...one day I'm sure you'll get it.

[Dee Dub]

Not even in the Big Apple are Giant fans saying these things about Eli Manning today.

Only Steeler fans.

[BradshawsHairdresser]

Oh, stop.

Most of us don't want Ben to go. I certainly don't. I recognize he has a cruddy OL. The running game has been bad (a bit better this past game, but strikes fear in the heart of no one). His OC, with his haphazard play-calling, and some ill-advised schemes, has done a poor job of helping Ben succeed. His head coach, who is supposed to help keep his team disciplined, focused, and prepared, can't seem to do much to help with any of those things. We could go on and on. But in spite of all these problems, I don't see how it's best to start making excuses for any player--even if he is a franchise QB.

Most of us love Ben. We just don't think it's asking too much to expect your $100 million quarterback to take better care of the ball.

[7 UP]

Ben flat out sucked last night. He was a turnover machine. Hes the best QB in franchise history if you ask me. That dosent change that fact that he absolutely sucked last night.

[pittpete]

I love Ben, always have always will.
He is playing some really bad football right now. He's playing very careless with the football,making some very poor decisions and his accuracy isn't what it used to be.
Is he 100% to blame?
Hell no. He is playing behind the worst O-line in football.
The musical chairs at RB contributes heavily also.
The fact Paulson isn't an NFL TE plays a factor up to this point too.
AB is a playmaker whether you choose to believe it or not. He is a different type of playmaker and really shines when he is used that way.

[Slapstick]

Love Ben.

Hate the way he's played these last two games.

[flippy]

flip you are just what I was talking about. How you can ignore the facts I posted above are mind boggling. This is by far the worst O-line in all of football. There is no running game what so ever. Take away last night,, Antonio Brown had 7 TD receptions in 40 games played. Emmanuel Sanders? 5 TD receptions in 43 games. Ben's best and most reliable receiver (Heath Miller), played his first game last night.

But hey...one day I'm sure you'll get it.

Guess I think more highly of Ben than you because I think he's capable of overcoming every last deficiency you've laid out.

Ben's play can make the line look better, the running game look better, the receivers look better, and the play calling look better. Look at it this way. Has he ever had a solid OLine? Have we ever had an elite running game? Have we ever given him elite weapons? Has the play calling ever helped him? I think you could honestly answer no to most of those with few exceptions. And Ben has overcome. He's awesome. That's what he does and why he's a way better player than his stats could ever describe. He's the one QB I've seen repeatedly make something out of nothing.

But he's playing bad right now. It is what it is. If Ben plays to the level he's capable, this is a winning ball club. I always expect him to make plays no matter the circumstances. I also think he does too which is why you always hear him take accountability for his own play. I really don't think I have a different expectation of Ben than he has of himself.

[Captain Lemming]

..would say these things about their QB. A man who has led their favorite team to two Super Bowl wins. Only Steeler fans ( not all but many), would say these horrible things about Ben

Here ya go:

http://boards.giants.com/showthread.php?35122-Eli-not-Elite

It is not ALL his fault, but you cant win turning the ball over that much.
Most fans are happy that Ben is our QB and know the team has plenty of other issues.

But Ben played poorly, thats the truth. He would be the first to tell you that.

[pittpete]

Flip, i would agree with you if you said the same 3 years ago.
Ben can't do the same things he used to do.
He is older, slower and probably shell-shocked at this point.
He can't carry this team on his shoulders any more, they are too heavy now

[PlanetSteelersNumber1Fan]

But that's exactly what they are asking him to do. Only now? It's more predictable.

[Captain Lemming]

Love Ben.

Hate the way he's played these last two games.

I dont know why some fans "dont get" this pretty obvious POV.

[PlanetSteelersNumber1Fan]

Fans in PITTSBURGH hate Ben.

The fans OUTSIDE of Pittsburgh appreciate him far more than the locals do.

[flippy]

I dont know why some fans "dont get" this pretty obvious POV.

It's the desire to only see black and white in our chaotic gray world. I think it's kinda a charming quality to not see the fault in something you love. Sometimes I wish I could live in that perfect world ;)

[BlitzTo7]

Only Pittsburgh Steeler fans make a big deal of this:

http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/mila-kunis-dan-rooney-ashton-kutcher.jpg?w=640

[PlanetSteelersNumber1Fan]

Screw her. Twat.

[flippy]

Only Pittsburgh Steeler fans make a big deal of this:

http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/mila-kunis-dan-rooney-ashton-kutcher.jpg?w=640

That'd make a great caption contest. I can't tell if he's sleeping. Or she's photobombing him? Or both? Or something else completely. :)

[Notleadpoisoned]

What have you done for me lately? or NFL = Not For Long. Pick one.

[Oviedo]

Ben flat out sucked last night. He was a turnover machine. Hes the best QB in franchise history if you ask me. That dosent change that fact that he absolutely sucked last night.


This is true. When things are the worst you want your best players to step up and make a difference. Ben did just the opposite last night--he didn't solve the problem he was part of the problem.

I agree Ben is the best QB this franchise has ever had but he needs to do better. The OL IS THE PROBLEM with this offense but Ben needs to recognize that and make changes to how he plays. Did you see the graphic last night where Cutler was getting rid of the ball in less than 2 seconds. That is what Ben needs to do whether he likes it or not.

[Ghost]

Only a complete narcissist would think that every single person who has a different opinion or perspective than their own is, not only wrong, but doesn't understand the game, and is too stupid to be a fan. That they are somehow the lone oasis in a desert of clueless fans. It's exhausting.

It's a real shame too b/c I truly believe you have a lot of good insights you could impart to the board but you willfully choose to be a condescending jack-a$$ instead. Give it a rest already.

[PlanetSteelersNumber1Fan]

When Ben AND Tomlin leave? Then maybe people will see where the problems are.

If Tomlin wants to fire Haley and isn't permitted? He'll walk.

And Ben will go right with him.

[Ghost]

When Ben AND Tomlin leave? Then maybe people will see where the problems are.

If Tomlin wants to fire Haley and isn't permitted? He'll walk.

And Ben will go right with him.

So by your own logic, Haley was Tomlin's hire, correct? Otherwise he would have walked when upper management forced a coach on him that he didn't want. If he wouldn't put up with it after the fact , he certainly wouldn't put up with it before either.

[flippy]

Only a complete narcissist would think that every single person who has a different opinion or perspective than their own is, not only wrong, but doesn't understand the game, and is too stupid to be a fan. That they are somehow the lone oasis in a desert of clueless fans. It's exhausting.


It becomes less annoying when you realize it's funny.

[PlanetSteelersNumber1Fan]

So by your own logic, Haley was Tomlin's hire, correct? Otherwise he would have walked when upper management forced a coach on him that he didn't want. If he wouldn't put up with it after the fact , he certainly wouldn't put up with it before either.

Rooney's influence hired him. Tomlin had 3 guys in mind. Wilson, Caldwell, Hue Jackson.

Rooney wanted a coach to "get in Ben's face" because he was impressed that Bill O'Brien yelled at Tom Brady.

And Haley's connections didn't hurt.

[Notleadpoisoned]

Only a complete narcissist would think that every single person who has a different opinion or perspective than their own is, not only wrong, but doesn't understand the game, and is too stupid to be a fan.

Replace the word "narcissist" with "Yinzer" and your point will be well taken.

[SidSmythe]

I agree with Dee Dub. Ben has one eye downfield and the other eye watching his pathetic pass blocking. If Ben was playing behind a good line and playing bad then fans would have a beef. Unfortunately the average fan has no clue about football and what it's actually like to perform at this level.

[Shoe]

I agree with Dee Dub. Ben has one eye downfield and the other eye watching his pathetic pass blocking. If Ben was playing behind a good line and playing bad then fans would have a beef. Unfortunately the average fan has no clue about football and what it's actually like to perform at this level.

That doesn't absolve him from being accountable himself, just like every lineman that you are blaming.

Ben has a role in protecting the ball, adjusting his game behind a sieve-like o-line. He has a role of minimizing mistakes and maximizing opportunities (in this case, take what the defense gives him), accounting for his own defense that cannot produce its own turnovers.

He is the driver of the ship (as the QB), and you (and Dee Dub) want to wash his hands of the mess of an offense that we see? That makes no sense.

[Ghost]

So when Dulac of the Post Gazette graded the game and gave Ben a D, he didn't know what he was talking about? He's just some fan boy....

Anyone who didn't see Ben play poorly is an ostrich with their head in the sand.

And that doesn't mean I don't think he's the greatest QB this team has had in decades. He is. But it also doesn't mean crap play isn't crap play.

[Elitestatusplease]

..would say these things about their QB. A man who has led their favorite team to two Super Bowl wins. Only Steeler fans ( not all but many), would say these horrible things about Ben and totally ignore or not understand the fact that he plays behind the worst O-line in football, has no running game, doesnt have any elite play makers, and has an offensive coordinator who never ever took one snap in all his life playing the game of football.

I really dont understand Steeler fans anymore. It looks as if Ben will be this years Mike Wallace to many Steeler fans. How sad.

I for one remember the days of Mark Malone (50.9% career passer), Bubby Brister (54.6% career passer), Neil O'Donnell (57.8% career passer), Mike Tomczak (53.9% career passer), Kent Graham (50.8% career passer), Kordell Stewart (55.8% career passer), and Tommy Maddox (57.2% career passer).

I suspect in 10-20 years there will be many who look back and say Ben was a lot better than what they had given him credit for.

Manning LEADS the Broncos. Brady LEADS the pats. Brees LEADS the Saints. Do you notice when they play poorly (qbs) their teams get blown out?
Ben can play poorly and we are still in the game. Thats the difference between a ONE MANNED team (aformentioned teams) and a TEAM. Our Defense LEADS us. Thats why Ben can play like *ss and we are still in the game. Like last night. Like in ever SB Ben has played in. Like the Viking game in Favres last season. Like the Cowboy game where Deshae ran back the winning int (D created 5 turnovers). Sorry, If Ben LEAD us then we would go as he goes. Sorry we go as the DEFENSE GOES. When the defense sucks and Ben puts up Monster stats we miss the playoffs (09). When the Defense is up to snuff we make the playoffs. Pro Bowlers and All Pro players are on the Defense (Polamalu and Harrison when he was here). Where are the ALL PROS on offense??

Ben sure has never been one. Its not sad... what is said is TRUE.

So we should lie out of loyalty to Ben? Then why not lie when Heath fumbles? Hines holds out? Mendenhall fumbles? Ike gets a penalty? AB drops a pass? How come no other Steeler is afforded this kind of loyalty??

[Elitestatusplease]

Rooney's influence hired him. Tomlin had 3 guys in mind. Wilson, Caldwell, Hue Jackson.

Rooney wanted a coach to "get in Ben's face" because he was impressed that Bill O'Brien yelled at Tom Brady.

And Haley's connections didn't hurt.

Link please

[Elitestatusplease]

I agree with Dee Dub. Ben has one eye downfield and the other eye watching his pathetic pass blocking. If Ben was playing behind a good line and playing bad then fans would have a beef. Unfortunately the average fan has no clue about football and what it's actually like to perform at this level.

Ben played behind an All Pro line in 07 at the Pro bowl with a no blitz rule and was the only qb SACKED

NEXT EXCUSE???

[Elitestatusplease]

Ben is slow to process the information, hence all of the sacks (career). Again, You dont find it odd that an 11 year vet is not allowed to audible? Dont you find it odd that a rookie made all of the line calls (Pouncey). Worth noting I guarantee Manning, Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Rivers, Eli, Ryan etc can all audible and I be willing to bet that they all make the line adjustments. Why are the Steelers picking on Ben??

How come?

[Elitestatusplease]

Flip, i would agree with you if you said the same 3 years ago.
Ben can't do the same things he used to do.
He is older, slower and probably shell-shocked at this point.
He can't carry this team on his shoulders any more, they are too heavy now

He NEVER Carried this team. When was this?

[Elitestatusplease]

Super Bowl 45: The final drive made it only to our own 33 yard line! The 33! And you can make all the excuses ya want: the personal foul on the kick-off return, Mike Wallace not knowing where the hell to be, whatever. Ben looked completely inept and he's totally the reason the Steelers lost the game. If you look at how all the Steelers and Packers played that game, it's pretty much split down the middle. Except at the quarterback where Rodgers got **** done and Ben flat-out didn't.

Tebow Playoff Loss: Ike Taylor and Dick Lebeau take a lot of **** for that game but where was the offense? They had the ball at the end of regulation. But couldn't get in FG range. Heck, they couldn't even get a hail mary off right at the end. Ben, of course, got sacked. Blame him, blame the line, blame whoever.

Week 1 of 2012: Ben throws a pathetic pick-6 on an out route on the final drive to clinch it for the Broncos.

Week 15 of 2012: Ben gets picked in overtime to set up the Cowboys for a 22 yard game winning FG. He out Romoed Romo.

Week 16 of 2012: The Bengals score their only TD by getting a pick-6 early on. And then, Ben gets picked again on the final drive to get knocked out of playoff contention. Yep, a home loss to the BENGALS with the season on the line.

Last week: Down 10, Ben throws behind the receiver, it goes off his hands, and gets picked. Same old story.

Yesterday; Four turnovers, that resulted in 21 points (2 Tds and fumble led to Forte TD). Sorry Ben is not clutch anymore. Please name the last time he came through in the clutch. Was it the 500 game vs the Pack of 09????

[Elitestatusplease]

Id love to see a OC try to handcuff Peyton Manning. Laughable. I remember when Marino got Jimmy Johnson he was handcuffed but how come he didnt play like Ben? Because Marino was elite like Manning, thats why.

[D Rock]

I want Ben to go. When his contract runs out. Absolutely. There is no way this team should spend big money on Roethlisberger again.

[Elitestatusplease]

I wish the Steelers would trade for Manning or Brady so you fools can see the problem isnt the line. Its Ben. Not all Ben but MOSTLY Ben. Funny the "BAD LINE" crap didnt start until Ben started playing. Maddox nor Kordell are any good and worse than Ben but they had time to throw? Worth noting, Maddox played behind the same line as Ben and not a peep of a "BAD LINE". So did Dixon, Lefwich and Batch in Ben's absence and the line never looked like it does for Ben. In fact Dixon passed 27 times vs the Ravens and wasnt sacked once. Batch threw over 30 times n 07 and wasnt sacked once vs the Ravens. How come Ben is the only one in 5, 6,7, 8 sack games?

In 08 Ben is sacked 8 times. Enter Leftwich and he leads us down the field beating Jimmy Johnsons blitz time after time. How about against the Skins and Ben plays the whole 1st half and is sacked galore. Ben gets hurt and Lefty (who sucks by the way. I'm critical of Ben but Ben does not suck) comes in for the 2nd half and the sack issue is miraculously gone as he hits Nate on a bomb and audibles to Tone for a TD.

More proof that the line problem is Ben and not on the line. Not totally absolving the line of any guilt but you guys want the line to play perfectly but dont hold #7 to the same standard. Sheer hypocrisy and bias

[BlitzTo7]

Id love to see a OC try to handcuff Peyton Manning. Laughable. I remember when Marino got Jimmy Johnson he was handcuffed but how come he didnt play like Ben? Because Marino was elite like Manning, thats why.

If Manning was a Steeler he'd be handcuffed. Tradition is more important than talent in the eyes of the Steelers.

[SidSmythe]

Ben played behind an All Pro line in 07 at the Pro bowl with a no blitz rule and was the only qb SACKED

NEXT EXCUSE???
wow, you totally OWNED me on this one!! :Bow :roll:

[Elitestatusplease]

If Manning was a Steeler he'd be handcuffed. Tradition is more important than talent in the eyes of the Steelers.

So the Steelers didnt handcuff Tammy Maddox but they will handcuff Manning? They handcuff Ben because it protects him. The guy isnt that bright.

[Elitestatusplease]

wow, you totally OWNED me on this one!! :Bow :roll:

You guys have more excuses for Bens average play. Ben is inconsistent. Always has been. When is the last time Ben has played well on Natl TV? This includes playoff games. When has Ben put together 4 elite game in a row, in his career. If you need to know what elite stas are then please view Mannings from last night. How come Ben hasnt had 4 of these games in a row in his whole career? How come? Because Ben is inonsistent. I know its the line, Arians, Haley, Tomlin............

[Shawn]

Ben has been playing very poorly. I won't allow two SB wins to cloud my judgement of his current play. He is currently...not good...not good at all. I won't blame the OL, or the WRs. Ben is missing open guys. He isn't protecting the ball. He has never had a good OL and made things happen. He isn't playing like we know he can play.

[Oviedo]

Ben has been playing very poorly. I won't allow two SB wins to cloud my judgement of his current play. He is currently...not good...not good at all. I won't blame the OL, or the WRs. Ben is missing open guys. He isn't protecting the ball. He has never had a good OL and made things happen. He isn't playing like we know he can play.

Ben is playing behind the most inexperienced and by far the worst performing OL he has ever played behind in his career. Not saying the OL doesn't have some talent and potential but actual performance has been horrible. To discount that is to suspend reality.

[Shawn]

Again, I would disagree about underperforming. We have had some really bad OL's, and Ben always made lemonade out of lemons. Something is different with Ben.

[feltdizz]

..would say these things about their QB. A man who has led their favorite team to two Super Bowl wins. Only Steeler fans ( not all but many), would say these horrible things about Ben and totally ignore or not understand the fact that he plays behind the worst O-line in football, has no running game, doesnt have any elite play makers, and has an offensive coordinator who never ever took one snap in all his life playing the game of football.

I really dont understand Steeler fans anymore. It looks as if Ben will be this years Mike Wallace to many Steeler fans. How sad.

I for one remember the days of Mark Malone (50.9% career passer), Bubby Brister (54.6% career passer), Neil O'Donnell (57.8% career passer), Mike Tomczak (53.9% career passer), Kent Graham (50.8% career passer), Kordell Stewart (55.8% career passer), and Tommy Maddox (57.2% career passer).

I suspect in 10-20 years there will be many who look back and say Ben was a lot better than what they had given him credit for.

well... when you become a Steeler fan you will understand.

You already suggested putting Ben on the trading block for picks... pick a side.

[williar]

I'm certainly not dumb enough to believe that we somehow have managed to have the worst OL in the league, every year. That is non-sense! That's what the ben fans want you to believe. The other BIG LIE is that the offensive coordinators (Arians, Haley) and their playcalling have been responsible for Ben's demise, and hiring another OC is going to come in here and make things better. LOL! The other lie ben fan likes to drop on you, is Ben has never had any good weapons. (Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, Manny Sanders, Heath Miller, Hines Ward, Nate Washington, Santonio Holmes, Randle El, Plaxico Burress). Those look like pretty good weapons to me.

Did y'all watch Peyton Manning last night? Now that is an ELITE QB. His OL sure didn't look all that great to me, lost their best O-lineman (Clady) guys pressuring him. NO PROBLEM!! Pick 6 Ben would have been sacked 10 times behind that OL last night. Anybody who tries to mentions Ben in the same breath as far as being as good or better than Peyton Manning should be banned from this board, going forward. One looks like a master of his profession, who takes his job seriously, and the other looks like (as one poster use to say) he's playing a pick up game at a frat party.

[feltdizz]

Only a complete narcissist would think that every single person who has a different opinion or perspective than their own is, not only wrong, but doesn't understand the game, and is too stupid to be a fan. That they are somehow the lone oasis in a desert of clueless fans. It's exhausting.

It's a real shame too b/c I truly believe you have a lot of good insights you could impart to the board but you willfully choose to be a condescending jack-a$$ instead. Give it a rest already.

He is a fan.. of himself and college football.

[feltdizz]

I agree with Dee Dub. Ben has one eye downfield and the other eye watching his pathetic pass blocking. If Ben was playing behind a good line and playing bad then fans would have a beef. Unfortunately the average fan has no clue about football and what it's actually like to perform at this level.

he's played behind a bad OL 8 of the last 10 years.... and he's defended them the last 10 years.

[Shawn]

well... when you become a Steeler fan you will understand.

You already suggested putting Ben on the trading block for picks... pick a side.

lol...i forgot about that. In chat. :)

[feltdizz]

The OL isn't great... but you guys have to agree that Ben can make a decent OL look like trash due to his style of play.

I'll never forget that game in Washington where we were on a 10 quarter TD drought and Ben wasn't practicing due to one of his many injuries. Lefty came in and marched us down the field in no time and stayed clean. OL looked completely different. Ben holds the ball... we all know this. It's not always the OL's fault.

[Oviedo]

he's played behind a bad OL 8 of the last 10 years.... and he's defended them the last 10 years.

Have you heard him defend this one like he has in the past? I haven't.

[feltdizz]

lol...i forgot about that. In chat. :)

Dub is great at creating threads that put up great numbers but he is not to be trusted.

That guy would trade his first born and his 401K for a draft pick...

AJ McCarron folks.. go get AJ McCarron...

[feltdizz]

Have you heard him defend this one like he has in the past? I haven't.

give him time.. it's only week 3.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Have you heard him defend this one like he has in the past? I haven't.

In pre-season he said that this is the best Oline that he has had. He also called a meeting this week with his linemen (no link but they talked about it during the game) in which he reportedly told them "You guys are good. You are high draft picks. Know you are good and then go out and play like it" or something along those lines.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

The OL isn't great... but you guys have to agree that Ben can make a decent OL look like trash due to his style of play.

He can also make a trash Oline look decent with his style of play. The knife cuts both ways on this one.

Also, I love the argument that always happens re: Ben:

Supporter: No other QB would be able to survive behind the Olines that Ben has played behind.

Anti: Sure they would. A smart QB like Manning would throw the ball away when that happens.

My question: How happy and successful would Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady et al be with throwing the ball away 10-15 times a game, every game??

Ben's style gives you much more when he is on, and much less when he is off. We saw much of both against Chicago.

[Oviedo]

In pre-season he said that this is the best Oline that he has had. He also called a meeting this week with his linemen (no link but they talked about it during the game) in which he reportedly told them "You guys are good. You are high draft picks. Know you are good and then go out and play like it" or something along those lines.

Sounds to me like he told them you have pedigree but you are failing. Not a ringing endorsement...more of a rah rah talk.

[flippy]

The OL isn't great... but you guys have to agree that Ben can make a decent OL look like trash due to his style of play.

I'll never forget that game in Washington where we were on a 10 quarter TD drought and Ben wasn't practicing due to one of his many injuries. Lefty came in and marched us down the field in no time and stayed clean. OL looked completely different. Ben holds the ball... we all know this. It's not always the OL's fault.

This is a good point and something that just came up in a conversation I had yesterday. We were talking about how when Ben goes down and Batch or Lefty comes in, the line looks magically better all of a sudden. I wish there was a way we could mix Tommy Maddox's quick decision making with Ben's talent. That QB would be off the charts good in every circumstance.

[Dee Dub]

well... when you become a Steeler fan you will understand.

You already suggested putting Ben on the trading block for picks... pick a side.

Really?? Is there a bigger Ben fan on this forum than me? But it should be understood that I am a bigger Steeler fan than I am a Ben Roethlisberger fan. Do you know the difference?

I want what is in the best interests of the Steelers first. Trading him in this next off-season, in my opinion, would be.

[Dee Dub]

Dub is great at creating threads that put up great numbers but he is not to be trusted.

That guy would trade his first born and his 401K for a draft pick...

AJ McCarron folks.. go get AJ McCarron...

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh but it's not just A.J. McCarron. It's also LT Jake Matthews, NT Louis Nix, and maybe a WR like Mike Evans.

Trading Ben could net all of that.

But do what do you felt....focus on the dumb sh%t.

[feltdizz]

He can also make a trash Oline look decent with his style of play. The knife cuts both ways on this one.

Also, I love the argument that always happens re: Ben:

Supporter: No other QB would be able to survive behind the Olines that Ben has played behind.

Anti: Sure they would. A smart QB like Manning would throw the ball away when that happens.

My question: How happy and successful would Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady et al be with throwing the ball away 10-15 times a game, every game??

Ben's style gives you much more when he is on, and much less when he is off. We saw much of both against Chicago.

No doubt he can make a bad OL look good with miracle plays... but then again, that doesn't make them look good, that makes HIM look good.

Brady, Brees and Manning wouldn't pat these guys on the back. They would "flame" them in public and called cry babies by other teams fans while the FO listens to them and fixes the OL.

[feltdizz]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh but it's not just A.J. McCarron. It's also LT Jake Matthews, NT Louis Nix, and maybe a WR like Mike Evans.

Trading Ben could net all of that.

But do what do you felt....focus on the dumb sh%t.

focusing on fans bashing Ben when he is playing BAD is focusing on the dumb sh$# but do you...

and what's up with the cursing? Last year you hit me with a bible verse when I put up a WTF icon.

[Steelchip]

This is a good point and something that just came up in a conversation I had yesterday. We were talking about how when Ben goes down and Batch or Lefty comes in, the line looks magically better all of a sudden. I wish there was a way we could mix Tommy Maddox's quick decision making with Ben's talent. That QB would be off the charts good in every circumstance.

Could it be that our OC is not calling plays that play to Ben's strengths as much as it looks like he does when a back-up comes in ? I'm not a Pro coach but I would think that there are more productive plays out there besides WR bubble screens. Could quick slants or QB rollouts work, we may never know.

[Captain Lemming]

It becomes less annoying when you realize it's funny.

True nuff Flippy.
I dont see why people get so upset.
Crash is as rude to me as ANYBODY. Dude despises me. I just find it hilarious that a guy can get so worked up over this.

[Jooser]

How many times was Bradshaw booed or even benched? The fact is, all great ones have their low points. Ben will be fine.

[steelblood]

Reality...

Ben is the best QB we've had in the last 30 years.
This may be the worst offensive line we've had in the last 30 years.
We lack playmakers on offense.
Ben made lots of elite escapes and amazing throws on Sunday night.
Ben was very careless with the ball and often off target on Sunday night.
If some are calling for us to bench Ben, they are mad.
If some are saying that Ben has played at an all-pro level this season, they are equally mad.
It is perfectly reasonable for one to argue that Ben has been a big part of the problem this season.
It is perfectly reasonable to defend Ben and his part in the team's poor play because of the poor play of the rest of the offense and the often awful playcalling/play design.

[flippy]

Reality...

Ben is the best QB we've had in the last 30 years.
This may be the worst offensive line we've had in the last 30 years.
We lack playmakers on offense.
Ben made lots of elite escapes and amazing throws on Sunday night.
Ben was very careless with the ball and often off target on Sunday night.
If some are calling for us to bench Ben, they are mad.
If some are saying that Ben has played at an all-pro level this season, they are equally mad.
It is perfectly reasonable for one to argue that Ben has been a big part of the problem this season.
It is perfectly reasonable to defend Ben and his part in the team's poor play because of the poor play of the rest of the offense and the often awful playcalling/play design.

whoa there buddy. there's no need to go all reasonable on us ;)

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

Reality...

Ben is the best QB we've had in the last 30 years.
This may be the worst offensive line we've had in the last 30 years.
We lack playmakers on offense.
Ben made lots of elite escapes and amazing throws on Sunday night.
Ben was very careless with the ball and often off target on Sunday night.
If some are calling for us to bench Ben, they are mad.
If some are saying that Ben has played at an all-pro level this season, they are equally mad.
It is perfectly reasonable for one to argue that Ben has been a big part of the problem this season.
It is perfectly reasonable to defend Ben and his part in the team's poor play because of the poor play of the rest of the offense and the often awful playcalling/play design.

Morale equivalences are very confusing to me. Could you just summarize please and tell me who sucks so I can flame them? Just one person if you can, two if you have to, but it gets a bit complicated then ...:HeadBanger ... and then my head hurts.

Thanks,

Crushed in Coraopolis

[NorthCoast]

I know I will get ripped for saying it and maybe I am overthinking things, but a case can be made the Offensive problems are on Roethlisberger. Consider his best statistical season in yds/gm came in 2009 (288 ). He also happened to have been sacked a career high 50 times! So it seems he is at his best when he holds the ball too long. Coaches are trying to change his game to extend his career and perhaps even help the young OL by forcing quick throws. Unfortunately, Roethlisberger is either unwilling or unable to change his game like he is being asked to do. Although, as it has been pointed out adnausem, many times it seems there is a jailbreak coming through.

[flippy]

I know I will get ripped for saying it and maybe I am overthinking things, but a case can be made the Offensive problems are on Roethlisberger. Consider his best statistical season in yds/gm came in 2009 (288 ). He also happened to have been sacked a career high 50 times! So it seems he is at his best when he holds the ball too long. Coaches are trying to change his game to extend his career and perhaps even help the young OL by forcing quick throws. Unfortunately, Roethlisberger is either unwilling or unable to change his game like he is being asked to do. Although, as it has been pointed out adnausem, many times it seems there is a jailbreak coming through.

In a way it's like we're trying to Kordell Stewart him. Kordell was great with Chan and then we tried for many seasons to make him into something he wasn't and failed miserably in the process. At that time, Kordell was as unique a QB as Ben is today. I also see a lot of similarities in the creativity and open thinking of Chan and BA. In both cases, the QBs/OCs are very different but very much the same.

[Elitestatusplease]

The OL isn't great... but you guys have to agree that Ben can make a decent OL look like trash due to his style of play.

I'll never forget that game in Washington where we were on a 10 quarter TD drought and Ben wasn't practicing due to one of his many injuries. Lefty came in and marched us down the field in no time and stayed clean. OL looked completely different. Ben holds the ball... we all know this. It's not always the OL's fault.

I refrenced this game yesterday. The Oline sucks is an EXCUSE. Its not the line it is Ben. Lefties 1st play was a bomb to Nate. Got down inside the 5. Lefty then audibles (After noticing the cb playing soft on Tone) and hits him for a short TD. Ben played the 1st half and was sacked 3 or 4 times and looked horrible. Lefty starts the second half and PRESTO!!! The Line problem was gone. Why? Because Lefty stays in the pocket and the lineman know exactly where he is. Ben runs around and leaves the pocket prematurely and its HARD to block for a guy when the D can see him and you dont know where he is. Same exact thing happened in the Philly game same year. Ben sacked 8 times Lefty comes in and stays in the pocket and drives us down the field while beating the blitz time and time again.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2008110300/2008/REG9/steelers@redskins#tab=analyze&recap=quicktake

[Elitestatusplease]

In pre-season he said that this is the best Oline that he has had. He also called a meeting this week with his linemen (no link but they talked about it during the game) in which he reportedly told them "You guys are good. You are high draft picks. Know you are good and then go out and play like it" or something along those lines.

He said GET SOME DAWG IN YOU. He should have told that to himself

[Elitestatusplease]

this is a good point and something that just came up in a conversation i had yesterday. We were talking about how when ben goes down and batch or lefty comes in, the line looks magically better all of a sudden. I wish there was a way we could mix tommy maddox's quick decision making with ben's talent. That qb would be off the charts good in every circumstance.

agree agree agree

[Elitestatusplease]

Really?? Is there a bigger Ben fan on this forum than me? But it should be understood that I am a bigger Steeler fan than I am a Ben Roethlisberger fan. Do you know the difference?

I want what is in the best interests of the Steelers first. Trading him in this next off-season, in my opinion, would be.

HERE HERE TO THE STEELER FANS. I think the Ben fans dwarf the STEELER fans. I dont want to trade Ben but If I could get a young cerebral qb like Russell Wilson, Luck or that guy in Bama. ID DO IT.

Bens best days are gone.

[Elitestatusplease]

No doubt he can make a bad OL look good with miracle plays... but then again, that doesn't make them look good, that makes HIM look good.

Brady, Brees and Manning wouldn't pat these guys on the back. They would "flame" them in public and called cry babies by other teams fans while the FO listens to them and fixes the OL.

Brady, brees and Manning are CEREBRAL. They make a Oline look great. How did Mannings GREAT line look w/o him? HORRIBLE. How did Bradys look without Him? HORRIBLE. Cassel was sacked 46 times. How come Brady isnt sacked that much? Go ahead and mention the 11-5 season w/o Brady. Missed the playoffs. Failure. How was the Saints line with Brooks and Bauman prior to Brees? Sacked over 40 times. Brees comes in the next year and is sacked in the TEENS.

ITS THE QUARTERBACK GUYS. SIGH

[Elitestatusplease]

How many times was Bradshaw booed or even benched? The fact is, all great ones have their low points. Ben will be fine.

Bradshaw was booed early because he played poorly. Have you seen his stats?????? However, he grew as a Player due to being COACHABLE. He listened to Noll and the light came on and Terry was money in Big games. He habitually beat 70's powerhouses like Minnesota, Dallas, Oakland and Miami. Now look at Ben's stats vs elite teams and tell me what you find. It aint good I have EVERY game of his career vs a good team and his stats SUCK.

[Elitestatusplease]

I know I will get ripped for saying it and maybe I am overthinking things, but a case can be made the Offensive problems are on Roethlisberger. Consider his best statistical season in yds/gm came in 2009 (288 ). He also happened to have been sacked a career high 50 times! So it seems he is at his best when he holds the ball too long. Coaches are trying to change his game to extend his career and perhaps even help the young OL by forcing quick throws. Unfortunately, Roethlisberger is either unwilling or unable to change his game like he is being asked to do. Although, as it has been pointed out adnausem, many times it seems there is a jailbreak coming through.

Good for Ben BUT the STEELERS missed the playoffs in 09, He is UNWILLING

I ONLY KNOW HOW TO PLAY ONE WAY COACH

[Elitestatusplease]

In a way it's like we're trying to Kordell Stewart him. Kordell was great with Chan and then we tried for many seasons to make him into something he wasn't and failed miserably in the process. At that time, Kordell was as unique a QB as Ben is today. I also see a lot of similarities in the creativity and open thinking of Chan and BA. In both cases, the QBs/OCs are very different but very much the same.

BEN is 10 times Better than Kordell. He SUCKED.

ALWAYS

[Eddie Spaghetti]

8 straight posts.

take break man

[DukieBoy]

8 straight posts.

take break man

Some OCD going on above you there, Eddie.

[steelblood]

Morale equivalences are very confusing to me. Could you just summarize please and tell me who sucks so I can flame them? Just one person if you can, two if you have to, but it gets a bit complicated then ...:HeadBanger ... and then my head hurts.

Thanks,

Crushed in Coraopolis
Sure, it is all on AR2. Flame on!

[Elitestatusplease]

8 straight posts.

take break man

Why are you mad? Truth hurts