Tomlin needs to step up and...

[Sword]

The buck stops at Tomlin, he needs to step up to the plate and lead this team
better than he has.

He needs to focus on his strengths \ Talent and use that to his advantage. Forget what the Rooney's \ Management want.
(They want to live in the past(running the ball) which is a mistake...)

Even if it cost him his job he needs to believe, in what will work\win not what won't \ want to do...
He needs to tell his coaches what kind of plays to call, Tell them!!! not ask them!!!

If my reputation\ Coaches career is on the line I could care a less what the owners want.....
Please fire me if you don't like it... but, I rather go down believing, in what I know will work then the other....

[SteelerOfDeVille]

head coaches don't call plays... they let coordinators do that... and they get to fire them if they don't like the plays they call... except, he can't fire him. in a nutshell, that's the problem...

[SidSmythe]

head coaches don't call plays... they let coordinators do that... and they get to fire them if they don't like the plays they call... except, he can't fire him. in a nutshell, that's the problem... Sad to say I think Todd Haley will never be "fired" midseason. Looks like we have to wait the season out so the Steelers can work out a deal for him to leave w/out another embarrassment.

[Oviedo]

head coaches don't call plays... they let coordinators do that... and they get to fire them if they don't like the plays they call... except, he can't fire him. in a nutshell, that's the problem...


Exactly. Tomlin is the head coach, but he doesn't own the team. Like any corporate organization the guy at the top calls the shots and you execute within the guidelines provided. To say "forget what the Rooney's/Management want" is plain ridiculous.

The problem we have right now with the OL (#1 source of our offensive issues) is much more on Colbert than Tomlin. Colbert went into this season with a wish and hope on the Offensive Line and ignored it in the draft. He controls the talent acqusition not Tomlin.

If you are in NASCAR and the racing team owners give you cars with a six banger in them you aren't going to win any races no matter how much you tweak the engine or how good your driver is (Big Ben).

As far as firing the coordinators, do you really think that accomplishes anything mid-season? Plus does anyone really think Tomlin ever had the ability to move on past LeBeau no matter how much he wanted to?

[don2016]

I have always though Tomlin needs to be more assertive. I see no fire, pride, passion or emotion. Bill Cowher had " a look" about him. Chuck Noll had " a look" about him.

[Oviedo]

I have always though Tomlin needs to be more assertive. I see no fire, pride, passion or emotion. Bill Cowher had " a look" about him. Chuck Noll had " a look" about him.

Don't know how old you are, but Tomlin's demeanor on the sideline is very much like Noll's. Cowher was the only one who was an "attention whore" on the sideline hamming it up for the cameras.

It's also a different era in dealing with players than what Noll had to deal with.

[Sword]

Exactly. Tomlin is the head coach, but he doesn't own the team. Like any corporate organization the guy at the top calls the shots and you execute within the guidelines provided. To say "forget what the Rooney's/Management want" is plain ridiculous.

The problem we have right now with the OL (#1 source of our offensive issues) is much more on Colbert than Tomlin. Colbert went into this season with a wish and hope on the Offensive Line and ignored it in the draft. He controls the talent acqusition not Tomlin.

If you are in NASCAR and the racing team owners give you cars with a six banger in them you aren't going to win any races no matter how much you tweak the engine or how good your driver is (Big Ben).

As far as firing the coordinators, do you really think that accomplishes anything mid-season? Plus does anyone really think Tomlin ever had the ability to move on past LeBeau no matter how much he wanted to?

Your missing the point...
I'm a good programmer and I'm not going to have the owner of the company tell me how to program..thats absurd..
I'm the expert not them..get it now?

[feltdizz]

I have always though Tomlin needs to be more assertive. I see no fire, pride, passion or emotion. Bill Cowher had " a look" about him. Chuck Noll had " a look" about him.

hmmm... wonder what that look could be?

[feltdizz]

Your missing the point...
I'm a good programmer and I'm not going to have the owner of the company tell me how to program..thats absurd..
I'm the expert not them..get it now?

you are the expert programmer.. but I doubt you get to choose the computers and projects you work on..

[Oviedo]

you are the expert programmer.. but I doubt you get to choose the computers and projects you work on..

..and your program plan and the deliverables you are required to deliver and when.

[feltdizz]

..and your program plan and the deliverables you are required to deliver and when.

maybe he is a rogue programmer....

[phillyesq]

Exactly. Tomlin is the head coach, but he doesn't own the team. Like any corporate organization the guy at the top calls the shots and you execute within the guidelines provided. To say "forget what the Rooney's/Management want" is plain ridiculous.

The problem we have right now with the OL (#1 source of our offensive issues) is much more on Colbert than Tomlin. Colbert went into this season with a wish and hope on the Offensive Line and ignored it in the draft. He controls the talent acqusition not Tomlin.

If you are in NASCAR and the racing team owners give you cars with a six banger in them you aren't going to win any races no matter how much you tweak the engine or how good your driver is (Big Ben).

As far as firing the coordinators, do you really think that accomplishes anything mid-season? Plus does anyone really think Tomlin ever had the ability to move on past LeBeau no matter how much he wanted to?

Give it a rest with LeBeau already. The problem this season is not defense.

And as for what firing the OC would do midseason? Seemed to work well for a division rival.

Finally, I'm still waiting to hear your proposed changes for the OL. Which draft pick did you want to get rid of this year? What concrete solutions did you have? You always complain that the Steelers don't play young guys on defense, that they have to wait. Well, on offense, guess what - they are playing.

[phillyesq]

The buck stops at Tomlin, he needs to step up to the plate and lead this team
better than he has.

He needs to focus on his strengths \ Talent and use that to his advantage. Forget what the Rooney's \ Management want.
(They want to live in the past(running the ball) which is a mistake...)

Even if it cost him his job he needs to believe, in what will work\win not what won't \ want to do...
He needs to tell his coaches what kind of plays to call, Tell them!!! not ask them!!!

If my reputation\ Coaches career is on the line I could care a less what the owners want.....
Please fire me if you don't like it... but, I rather go down believing, in what I know will work then the other....

Tomlin does need to step up. He has unleased hell on us in the past, and we saw what that did. He is a great coach when things are going well, but it seems as though he struggles to move through adversity.

[Sword]

you are the expert programmer.. but I doubt you get to choose the computers and projects you work on..

Actually a senior level SQL Database Administrator \ .NET programmer.
Choose the computers .... I was giving a computer as my main workstation when hired..But can log into many servers and pc's as I see fit to work on.
Choose projects...I get to choose what to work on most times daily....My job is to keep Servers up and running what ever it takes...So it's the coaches job to win games whatever it takes within there power.

I was a leader in Management for over 15 years before computer field.. I know how to lead..Tomlin can do much better from what I see.....
And like the other poster I see no passion like I have before..

[BradshawsHairdresser]

The buck stops at Tomlin, he needs to step up to the plate and lead this team
better than he has.

He needs to focus on his strengths \ Talent and use that to his advantage. Forget what the Rooney's \ Management want.
(They want to live in the past(running the ball) which is a mistake...)

Even if it cost him his job he needs to believe, in what will work\win not what won't \ want to do...
He needs to tell his coaches what kind of plays to call, Tell them!!! not ask them!!!

If my reputation\ Coaches career is on the line I could care a less what the owners want.....
Please fire me if you don't like it... but, I rather go down believing, in what I know will work then the other....

$$$$
It's on Tomlin to step up and make the changes that need to be made. He is responsible for telling Haley what to do with the offense. The Rooneys might be putting pressure on Tomlin...Art II might even be telling him what to do (although I've seen no proof of that)...but ultimately, it's Tomlin's decision. They hired him to be a head coach, and he needs to be a head coach. If I'm in his position, I do my job to best of my ability, and if they don't like it, they can fire me.

IMO, He'll have a lot easier time getting another HC job if he gets fired doing his best than if he gets fired after doing something other than that.

[Captain Lemming]

He needs to focus on his strengths \ Talent and use that to his advantage. Forget what the Rooney's \ Management want.
(They want to live in the past(running the ball) which is a mistake...)

Is ANYBODY here paying attention to what is REALLY HAPPENING?
We ARE NOT running the ball!!!!
We are 31st IN ATTEMPTS.
We are not losing games because we run too much.

Are you watching VIKING games and getting confused?

Ben threw PLENTY on Monday.
Ben threw DEEP plenty on Monday.
Ben EXTENDED PLAYS like he wants plenty on Monday.
The best completion of the day, which got us in scoring range WAS FUMBLED

Why did we lose then?

The receivers dropped PLENTY of passes on Monday.
Ben misses PLENTY of receivers on Monday.
Ben got sacked extending plays like he wants to on Monday

We opened the game with three straight runs (admittedly stupid) but that is ALL anyone remembers.

Outside on that ONE DRIVE this has been a decidedly pass-centric team over the coarse of TWO games.
And Monday's game cant be called "dink and dunk" either. Watch a replay. You will find 9 or 10 twenty yard or longer (in the air) pass attempts that failed.

Stop believing the lies of Crash. Just because the dude posts the same ridiculous lies a gazillion times before he gets banned does not make it true.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

Actually a senior level SQL Database Administrator \ .NET programmer.
Choose the computers .... I was giving a computer as my main workstation when hired..But can log into many servers and pc's as I see fit to work on.
Choose projects...I get to choose what to work on most times daily....My job is to keep Servers up and running what ever it takes...So it's the coaches job to win games whatever it takes within there power.

I was a leader in Management for over 15 years before computer field.. I know how to lead..Tomlin can do much better from what I see.....
And like the other poster I see no passion like I have before..
Funny - Senior DBA/ (former) programmer myself and even in leading, you still have your weak links on any team. This is a pretty good analogy, so, lets' roll with it.

If you've been handed a guy who is incompetent, you can't MAKE him smarter. You just can't. In switching from DB2 DBA to SQL DBA, I landed on a team where we inherited people who simply weren't good enough. And to this day, there are certain tasks that I would only entrust with certain people. Those who aren't good enough, we look to management to replace them, and we have - just as Tomlin should be able to do. The problem here is, Haley IS incompetent at this point, but, Tomlin cannot replace him.

If you were a leader in management, especially in IT, then you understand that you occasionally hire people who led you to believe they were more knowlegeable/talented than they really were. You don't let that person keep f'ing up your systems; you make their life uncomfortable until you can find the next opportunity for lay off and that person is on the list.

[Sword]

Funny - Senior DBA/ (former) programmer myself and even in leading, you still have your weak links on any team. This is a pretty good analogy, so, lets' roll with it.

If you've been handed a guy who is incompetent, you can't MAKE him smarter. You just can't. In switching from DB2 DBA to SQL DBA, I landed on a team where we inherited people who simply weren't good enough. And to this day, there are certain tasks that I would only entrust with certain people. Those who aren't good enough, we look to management to replace them, and we have - just as Tomlin should be able to do. The problem here is, Haley IS incompetent at this point, but, Tomlin cannot replace him.

If you were a leader in management, especially in IT, then you understand that you occasionally hire people who led you to believe they were more knowlegeable/talented than they really were. You don't let that person keep f'ing up your systems; you make their life uncomfortable until you can find the next opportunity for lay off and that person is on the list.

That is funny and hello fellow dba... I don't disagree with you and I'm with you on Haley..but the buck still stops at Tomlin and I think he can do much better then he has...

[Captain Lemming]

That is funny and hello fellow dba... I don't disagree with you and I'm with you on Haley..but the buck still stops at Tomlin and I think he can do much better then he has...

Why, in view of my earlier post?
We did for the most part call plays to the perceived strength of the offense as you suggest we should.
Players failed to execute.

[Sword]

Why, in view of my earlier post?
We did for the most part call plays to the perceived strength of the offense as you suggest we should.
Players failed to execute.

see my response to your new post with what you posted here...

[SteelerOfDeVille]

That is funny and hello fellow dba... I don't disagree with you and I'm with you on Haley..but the buck still stops at Tomlin and I think he can do much better then he has...

I bet there are a lot of "techies" on here...
*group hug*
commit;

:p

[Sword]

I bet there are a lot of "techies" on here...
*group hug*
commit;

:p

NICE!!! LOL
I will add a little more...



SET NOCOUNT ON
SET XACT_ABORT ON


DECLARE @STEELERGROUPHUG NVARCHAR(100) = 'Group Hug'
DECLARE @STEELERGROUPCRY NVARCHAR(100) = 'Group Cry'
DECLARE @STEELERWIN BIT = 1


BEGIN TRAN
BEGIN TRY

IF @STEELERWIN = 1
BEGIN
SELECT @STEELERGROUPHUG
END
ELSE
BEGIN
RAISERROR(@STEELERGROUPCRY,16,1)
END

COMMIT
END TRY
BEGIN CATCH
BEGIN
ROLLBACK TRANSACTION
SELECT ERROR_MESSAGE()
END
END CATCH

[SteelerOfDeVille]

NICE!!! LOL
I will add a little more...



SET NOCOUNT ON
SET XACT_ABORT ON


DECLARE @STEELERGROUPHUG NVARCHAR(100) = 'Group Hug'
DECLARE @STEELERGROUPCRY NVARCHAR(100) = 'Group Cry'
DECLARE @STEELERWIN BIT = 1


BEGIN TRAN
BEGIN TRY

IF @STEELERWIN = 1
BEGIN
SELECT @STEELERGROUPHUG
END
ELSE
BEGIN
RAISERROR(@STEELERGROUPCRY,16,1)
END

COMMIT
END TRY
BEGIN CATCH
BEGIN
ROLLBACK TRANSACTION
SELECT ERROR_MESSAGE()
END
END CATCH

F'ING HILARIOUS!! Very nice

[BURGH86STEEL]

There is not much the coaches can do if the players play poorly and don't execute. Coaches can't make players play perform better.

[BradshawsHairdresser]

There is not much the coaches can do if the players play poorly and don't execute. Coaches can't make players play perform better.
No, but they can often put the players in a better position to be successful. Sometimes, they need to adjust their schemes and play-calling to better accentuate their players' strengths. For example, Cotchery, Brown, and Sanders are not best utilized on deep routes. So be willing to adjust your play selection accordingly.

[flippy]

F'ING HILARIOUS!! Very nice

I wish I got it you nerds ;)

[DukieBoy]

No, but they can often put the players in a better position to be successful. Sometimes, they need to adjust their schemes and play-calling to better accentuate their players' strengths. For example, Cotchery, Brown, and Sanders are not best utilized on deep routes. So be willing to adjust your play selection accordingly.


It has been baffling that the Steelers have run Cotchery on the end-around, and passblocked with 5'7' 180 pound scatback LSH.

[BURGH86STEEL]

No, but they can often put the players in a better position to be successful. Sometimes, they need to adjust their schemes and play-calling to better accentuate their players' strengths. For example, Cotchery, Brown, and Sanders are not best utilized on deep routes. So be willing to adjust your play selection accordingly.

The problems that fans face when discussing this is they don't know when coaches adjust the scheme and play calling. If RB's are to slow to hit a hole, WR's drop passes, players give the ball away, or Ben throws poorly or doesn't see open WR's what do people expect the coaches to do? I've never seen a scheme or play calling that can overcome poor play. The game boils down to execution.

Just because Cotchery, Brown, and Sanders may not be among the best deep threats in the league doesn't mean the coaches shouldn't send them down the field on occasion.

[steelz09]

The problems that fans face when discussing this is they don't know when coaches adjust the scheme and play calling. If RB's are to slow to hit a hole, WR's drop passes, players give the ball away, or Ben throws poorly or doesn't see open WR's what do people expect the coaches to do? I've never seen a scheme or play calling that can overcome poor play. The game boils down to execution.

Just because Cotchery, Brown, and Sanders may not be among the best deep threats in the league doesn't mean the coaches shouldn't send them down the field on occasion.

How long have you been watching football? You can't tell when playcalling and/or schemes get adjusted during a game? That explains a lot. You've made this claim before but I think your seriously underestimating some fans knowledge of football if you think they can't notice schematic & playcalling changes during games.

[BradshawsHairdresser]

The problems that fans face when discussing this is they don't know when coaches adjust the scheme and play calling. If RB's are to slow to hit a hole, WR's drop passes, players give the ball away, or Ben throws poorly or doesn't see open WR's what do people expect the coaches to do? I've never seen a scheme or play calling that can overcome poor play. The game boils down to execution.

Just because Cotchery, Brown, and Sanders may not be among the best deep threats in the league doesn't mean the coaches shouldn't send them down the field on occasion.

On occasion, yes. As much as we've been doing it? Not the best use of the skillsets of the players we have. Maybe Wheaton is that deep threat that can get behind the defenders and open things up. The other three sure as heck aren't, and to keep trying to use them that way is an exercise in futility.

[Captain Lemming]

How long have you been watching football? You can't tell when playcalling and/or schemes get adjusted during a game? That explains a lot. You've made this claim before but I think your seriously underestimating some fans knowledge of football if you think they can't notice schematic & playcalling changes during games.

We adjusted at halftime and gave up on the run pretty much like everybody wants. We scored ZERO as a result

[Captain Lemming]

On occasion, yes. As much as we've been doing it? Not the best use of the skillsets of the players we have. Maybe Wheaton is that deep threat that can get behind the defenders and open things up. The other three sure as heck aren't, and to keep trying to use them that way is an exercise in futility.

Brad how are you and I the ONLY TWO who see all the deep throws?

My guess? Remember Ben and his "dink and dunk" comments last year?
This offseason Ben is all excited about being given input?
Any wonder we see deep passes that Ben prefers.

Interestingly DESPITE the speculation here, Ben seems MORE supportive of Haley than last year.

When everyone is waiting for him to dump on Haley, Ben clearly spoke of not pointing fingers after the last game. My guess, Ben's preference HAS BEEN IMPLEMENTED. Thus the deep throws.

[thor75]

The offensive road is very curvy. One week we have a commitment to this and another week we try this. I was not a believer in the discord that so many of you have inferred. But with the way the offense is progressing, I cannot help but deduct that the offensive side of the ball is experiencing some grand canyon like communication drops. There seems to be a one-sided following of the leader. This leader is the QB and not the OC. Do you think this will work? Do you think the fractured leadership will work?? I do not. One voice, one vision, one directive. We heard the rumblings of AB getting in Haleys face. Does Big Ben have the Balls to do it and turn this keystone kops operation around??? I have been a Haley supporter from day one, but I am beginning to look in the other corner. Maybe the fit isn't so glove like. I am throwing my vote into a change of direction for the offense, one that utilizes our recent draft picks and eliminates the old fashioned play design that relies on slow footed but sure handed WRs to implement our stupid fu@%ing bubble screens.

[feltdizz]

We adjusted at halftime and gave up on the run pretty much like everybody wants. We scored ZERO as a result

Not true... I don't think anyone wants our offense to be one dimensional. Most want Felix Jones to get touches.... why the hell did he get ZERO touches after showing the ability to avoid tacklers for a first down? That definitely was unpredictable.

No one wants to give up on the run... just give up on running Redman....

[AngryAsian]

He obviously has a high football acumen and seems to be a motivator of men.... but IMO he seems to lack the triage skills neccesary when things are going wrong. From our armchair vantage point it appears that he doesn't adjust or at the very least attempt to intervene at crucial points in the game. Other coaches when being followed by the sideline cameras look immersed in the game...as of late, when they show Tomlin he looks perplexed or a few steps behind what is actually happening.

[NorthCoast]

Whoa, hold on.

We have to remember this is a very young offense, the youngest we have seen since the early Cowher days. It's an offense that has not yet figured out their identity and yet we are expecting some smooth-oiled machine out there. The OL hasn't even played a quarter of a season together yet. The reason why it looks so disjointed and chaotic is that they don't know what works with the current players. Give them a chance to figure out what they do best. And for those that point to the end of last season as more evidence of poor planning I say look again. Nearly one half of the offensive playmakers have changed since that time.

[squidkid]

enuff with expecting tomlin to make a decision, he's still learning.

[BURGH86STEEL]

How long have you been watching football? You can't tell when playcalling and/or schemes get adjusted during a game? That explains a lot. You've made this claim before but I think your seriously underestimating some fans knowledge of football if you think they can't notice schematic & playcalling changes during games.

Please break down when the coaches made ALL the adjustments to the play calling and schemes since I haven't been watching football that long. I want you to pin point the exact moment the coaches made those adjustments. Was it when a certain player entered the game? When a certain play or formation was called? It's difficult to do on the fly without knowing the game plan or re-watching the game. Please tell me the Steelers game plan when they faced the Bengals. What defensive players and defensive schemes did the Steelers plan to attack? How did the Steelers adjust to the Bengals schemes and defensive personnel? What routes did the Steelers WR's run to attack the Bengals defensive schemes?

Keep in mind that most offenses run multiple formations and personnel packages.

One of the FEW adjustments that fans can see on TV without rewatching the game/game film is the help provided to the tackles in pass protection. MOST adjustments are difficult to ascertain with the limited view on TV, without knowing the game plan, and without rewatching the game.

The general sense that I get out of these "adjustment" discussions is the coaches didn't adjust when the team loses. What if it can be pointed out that the coaches adjusted but the players didn't execute? What if the coaches adjust but the players don't adjust and play well?

I'm a bigger proponent of execution over anything else. Adjustments don't work if the players don't execute. I stick to what I KNOW wins games 95% of the time.

When did the Steelers make their first play calling and offensive adjustments?

[BURGH86STEEL]

On occasion, yes. As much as we've been doing it? Not the best use of the skillsets of the players we have. Maybe Wheaton is that deep threat that can get behind the defenders and open things up. The other three sure as heck aren't, and to keep trying to use them that way is an exercise in futility.
Ben loves to throw deep. I think they've throw 7 or 8 deep pass per game. I am not sure how many is to many per game. I do know they have to attack defenses vertically sometimes. They can only do it with the players they have. Wheaton will get his chance sooner or later.

It seems the offense is hurting without Wallace's presence.

[SteelCrazy]

Don't know how old you are, but Tomlin's demeanor on the sideline is very much like Noll's. Cowher was the only one who was an "attention whore" on the sideline hamming it up for the cameras.

It's also a different era in dealing with players than what Noll had to deal with.

Hamming it up for the camera's? Come on now. You may not have liked him as a coach because he kept Ben under control, but the guy was a ball of fire, camera's or not.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Your missing the point...
I'm a good programmer and I'm not going to have the owner of the company tell me how to program..thats absurd..
I'm the expert not them..get it now?

With that attitude, you probably find yourself on the street pretty quickly. Whether you are right or not, the guy who signs the checks usually thinks he knows better, especially if he isn't asking for your input first.

Good news is you probably find another job pretty fast with another company who appreciates your expertise. :D