PFT: Brown Confronts Haley on Sideline

[BlitzTo7]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/09/18/report-antonio-brown-confronts-todd-haley-on-sideline/

Report: Antonio Brown confronts Todd Haley on sideline
Posted by Darin Gantt on September 18, 2013, 8:53 AM EDT


Someone should get Antonio Brown to sign a bar napkin, and ask him what he thinks of Todd Haley.

According to Ed Bouchette of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, the Steelers wide receiver “confronted” his offensive coordinator on the sidelines in the second half of Monday’s loss to the Bengals, and “angrily complained” he wasn’t seeing enough of the ball.

According to the report, Haley and Brown were both still “seething about it” Tuesday.

There was no video footage of the incident, but the pattern of the game indicates something changed. Brown was targeted three times in the first half, with two catches for 35 yards. He was targeted six times in the second half.

Fellow starter Emmanuel Sanders was targeted 10 times, but No. 3 wideout Jerricho Cotchery was targeted five times in the first half, and nine for the game.

Such frustrations aren’t uncommon, especially on 0-2 teams. But for a team that’s struggling on offense the way the Steelers are, seeing one of their highest-paid players going off on the sidelines is going to be an issue.

[Oviedo]

I have no problem with a highly competitive player wanting to be part of the solution. It's been well documented how hard working and driven Brown is. He needs to pick the right time and place but while be may lose "style points," I love that he cares this much about a bad situation.

[feltdizz]

I have no problem with a highly competitive player wanting to be part of the solution. It's been well documented how hard working and driven Brown is. He needs to pick the right time and place but while be may lose style points," I love that he cares this much about a bad situation.

damn straight... but this is what usually happens with Haley and WR's on the sidelines.

One thing tho... Brown laid down on that crossing route when it looked like he still had room to run. What's up with that?

[papillon]

I have no problem with a highly competitive player wanting to be part of the solution. It's been well documented how hard working and driven Brown is. He needs to pick the right time and place but while be may lose style points," I love that he cares this much about a bad situation.

He needs to get open on regular basis then and Ben will begin looking for him at crunch time. It's only natural, there's a reason Ben leans on Miller, because he's rarely covered when Ben needs him the most.

Pappy

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

Either that, or the "Wallace-itis" virus was not decontaminated completely, and it is fixing to spread like wildfire now. I don't know much, but I do know that is a guaranteed path to a 1st or 2nd round draft pick.

I hope Ben's little chat includes putting a lid on this stuff. Like Ovi said, there's a right way and a wrong way to get those points across.

And I might add, if it is coming from the top (remember that little vid someone posted of Tomlin intentionally "by accident" slamming his elbow into Haley's ribs?), this team is already lost ... because it won't be able to stay at a team if it turns into a circular firing squad.

[Oviedo]

damn straight... but this is what usually happens with Haley and WR's on the sidelines.

One thing tho... Brown laid down on that crossing route when it looked like he still had room to run. What's up with that?

It looked to me like he lost his balance. It made him look like he sat down but I think he tried to do a sudden stop and had his weight shift backwards. The only reason I say this is that I rewound it watched it about three times because it looked so wierd.

[steelsnis]

It looked to me like he lost his balance. It made him look like he sat down but I think he tried to do a sudden stop and had his weight shift backwards. The only reason I say this is that I rewound it watched it about three times because it looked so wierd.

Yeah Ovi I think you're right. It looked a little odd to me also. Personally, i'm fine with a WR going down after a long gainer like that. We've seen AB get hit from behind trying to extend a long run and fumble the ball in Oakland and Dallas, (hell, we saw it earlier in the game when Paulsen did it!) If he did it on purpose, I look at it like it's just a business decision and the right one at that.

[SidSmythe]

Yeah Ovi I think you're right. It looked a little odd to me also. Personally, i'm fine with a WR going down after a long gainer like that. We've seen AB get hit from behind trying to extend a long run and fumble the ball in Oakland and Dallas, (hell, we saw it earlier in the game when Paulsen did it!) If he did it on purpose, I look at it like it's just a business decision and the right one at that. exactly... he tried to cut back and went down. he's a punt returner, he knows when to hold them and he knows when to fold them, he knows when to walk away, he knows when to run!!

[phillyesq]

Perhaps Brown would see more balls if he gained more separation.

[7 UP]

I think Todd Haley is Mike Tomlins Ray Sherman. And just like Ray, Todd wont make it through the whole season without being canned.

That being said Brown has not lived up to his contract. Shut your mouth and get open and youll get the ball

[flippy]

I wish there was more of an altercation. We need something to spark something. Since when has Haley become this choirboy that completely avoids drama? I can't believe there hasn't been a full scale blow up by now. All this losing should be driving him nuts. But even he has no passion.

We need someone like Hines Ward to call out Ben. That used to work. He seemed to be the only one that could get under Ben's skin and irritate him just enough to play better.

[BlitzTo7]

I wish there was more of an altercation. We need something to spark something. Since when has Haley become this choirboy that completely avoids drama? I can't believe there hasn't been a full scale blow up by now. All this losing should be driving him nuts. But even he has no passion.

We need someone like Hines Ward to call out Ben. That used to work. He seemed to be the only one that could get under Ben's skin and irritate him just enough to play better.

How can he play better when he's surrounded by crap?

[SidSmythe]

How can he play better when he's surrounded by crap? Ben has gone far w/ crap before. But then again, that crap could at least run block and RBs could find the run lanes.

[birtikidis]

I just think it's odd how everyone thinks this team is so awful. I hate to say this, and I know everyone is going to jump all over me for saying it, but this is a 10 win team with Peyton Manning on it.

[BlitzTo7]

I just think it's odd how everyone thinks this team is so awful. I hate to say this, and I know everyone is going to jump all over me for saying it, but this is a 10 win team with Peyton Manning on it.

You're badly overrating this team if you think that.

[NorthCoast]

This situation is just a symptom of the problem. The problem? There is no clear #1 WR on this team. AB is the most highly paid, but that doesn't mean he is regarded as #1 by the coaching staff.

Game in, game out, one of the guys has to show he is the man. Maybe AB thinks it, but apparently he still needs to convince others (including a few fans).

[birtikidis]

You're badly overrating this team if you think that.
Really? He's over come as many if not more issues than we have now. They also never had a good defense (well once or twice).
You don't think we score enough to beat tennessee or cincy? really?
Ben is in a funk and when he gets out of it, I guarantee we win more games than you think they will.

[papillon]

Really? He's over come as many if not more issues than we have now. They also never had a good defense (well once or twice).
You don't think we score enough to beat tennessee or cincy? really?
Ben is in a funk and when he gets out of it, I guarantee we win more games than you think they will.

That may or may not be true about Manning being on this team, but you're comparing a quarterback that can drop back make his reads and throw the football with confidence that his O-line will provide the necessary protection for him. Ben, on the other hand, has no such confidence (at least it appears that way) and, in reality, Ben's protection is inconsistent which may be worse than always bad. Ben never knows if he'll get the time or not, Peyton is almost certain he will get the time.

Difficult to assess how a different quarterback would operate with this O-line.

Pappy

[feltdizz]

I just think it's odd how everyone thinks this team is so awful. I hate to say this, and I know everyone is going to jump all over me for saying it, but this is a 10 win team with Peyton Manning on it.

with Peyton calling the plays any team besides the Jags could win 10 games these days...

with Haley's plays and this OL and running game? no...hell no

[papillon]

with Peyton calling the plays any team besides the Jags could win 10 games these days...

with Haley's plays and this OL and running game? no...hell no

QFT, no front office that has signed Peyton Manning would allow any OC to call a play. He'd be there to review film, determine where to attack the opponent, give Peyton the plays and tools to attack and then step aside and let the Sheriff go to work. If Haley would get out of Ben's way, we'd see similar results, regardless of what people think, Ben does understand the game and he does know what is working and what isn't.

Could you imagine an OC sending out Cotchery and two rookie or first year receivers and Paulson and then telling Peyton to run an end around to Cotchery. Peyton would call timeout walk over to the OC and tell him he's an idiot, tell the head coach to fire him immediately and then go back to the huddle and run a play with a realistic chance of succeeding. That play would have never seen the light of day if Manning were the quarterback.

Pappy

[birtikidis]

That may or may not be true about Manning being on this team, but you're comparing a quarterback that can drop back make his reads and throw the football with confidence that his O-line will provide the necessary protection for him. Ben, on the other hand, has no such confidence (at least it appears that way) and, in reality, Ben's protection is inconsistent which may be worse than always bad. Ben never knows if he'll get the time or not, Peyton is almost certain he will get the time.

Difficult to assess how a different quarterback would operate with this O-line.

Pappy
Manning can make up for the deficiencies of the offensive line. he gets rid of the ball quick and is smart enough to not throw it to the other team.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Manning can make up for the deficiencies of the offensive line. he gets rid of the ball quick and is smart enough to not throw it to the other team.

With this O line, Manning would be throwing it away so often that the guy sitting in the front row would have more receptions by the end of the season than any of our WRs.

[birtikidis]

QFT, no front office that has signed Peyton Manning would allow any OC to call a play. He'd be there to review film, determine where to attack the opponent, give Peyton the plays and tools to attack and then step aside and let the Sheriff go to work. If Haley would get out of Ben's way, we'd see similar results, regardless of what people think, Ben does understand the game and he does know what is working and what isn't.

Could you imagine an OC sending out Cotchery and two rookie or first year receivers and Paulson and then telling Peyton to run an end around to Cotchery. Peyton would call timeout walk over to the OC and tell him he's an idiot, tell the head coach to fire him immediately and then go back to the huddle and run a play with a realistic chance of succeeding. That play would have never seen the light of day if Manning were the quarterback.

Pappy
that would about sum it up. I think our hurry up offense is MUCH more limited than Peyton's. And that's not a knock on Ben I just think that Peyton is given a lot more leeway and is more cerebral than Ben.

[birtikidis]

With this O line, Manning would be throwing it away so often that the guy sitting in the front row would have more receptions by the end of the season than any of our WRs.
With Peyton Manning, this O-line would be full of All Pros.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

I just think it's odd how everyone thinks this team is so awful. I hate to say this, and I know everyone is going to jump all over me for saying it, but this is a 10 win team with Peyton Manning on it.
but, it's a 12 win team with Bruce Arians calling plays...

[SteelerOfDeVille]

QFT, no front office that has signed Peyton Manning would allow any OC to call a play. He'd be there to review film, determine where to attack the opponent, give Peyton the plays and tools to attack and then step aside and let the Sheriff go to work. If Haley would get out of Ben's way, we'd see similar results, regardless of what people think, Ben does understand the game and he does know what is working and what isn't.

Could you imagine an OC sending out Cotchery and two rookie or first year receivers and Paulson and then telling Peyton to run an end around to Cotchery. Peyton would call timeout walk over to the OC and tell him he's an idiot, tell the head coach to fire him immediately and then go back to the huddle and run a play with a realistic chance of succeeding. That play would have never seen the light of day if Manning were the quarterback.

Pappy
Nice post, Pap... spot on!

[Slapstick]

QFT, no front office that has signed Peyton Manning would allow any OC to call a play. He'd be there to review film, determine where to attack the opponent, give Peyton the plays and tools to attack and then step aside and let the Sheriff go to work. If Haley would get out of Ben's way, we'd see similar results, regardless of what people think, Ben does understand the game and he does know what is working and what isn't.

Could you imagine an OC sending out Cotchery and two rookie or first year receivers and Paulson and then telling Peyton to run an end around to Cotchery. Peyton would call timeout walk over to the OC and tell him he's an idiot, tell the head coach to fire him immediately and then go back to the huddle and run a play with a realistic chance of succeeding. That play would have never seen the light of day if Manning were the quarterback.

Pappy

Manning has earned that by maintaining his professionalism off the field and being a leader in the locker room...

Ben, thanks to some piss poor decision making over the years, still hasn't earned that yet...

Perhaps he will, be he isn't there...

[BlitzTo7]

Manning has earned that by maintaining his professionalism off the field and being a leader in the locker room...

Ben, thanks to some piss poor decision making over the years, still hasn't earned that yet...

Perhaps he will, be he isn't there...

And that's the problem. The Steelers could have moved on from Ben when all that happened, but they didn't. They kept him, so they should build around him.

Holding grudges about things that happened years ago when it's clear the guy has matured says more about people like you than it does about Ben.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

Manning has earned that by maintaining his professionalism off the field and being a leader in the locker room...

Ben, thanks to some piss poor decision making over the years, still hasn't earned that yet...

Perhaps he will, be he isn't there...
Bullcrap! Ben's been to and WON more super bowls than Peyton - whether he's a jerk off the field or not, is irrelevant. His football ability has granted him permission to change plays and call out an OC as he sees fit. The difference is, the Rooneys won't have it. They wouldn't from Manning, either. Especially with a guy they hand picked to be OC.

Normal teams don't go to the Super Bowl, then fire their OC - especially the guy who called plays in 2 of the last 3 super bowls at the time of his firing...

[BlitzTo7]

Bullcrap! Ben's been to and WON more super bowls than Peyton - whether he's a jerk off the field or not, is irrelevant. His football ability has granted him permission to change plays and call out an OC as he sees fit. The difference is, the Rooneys won't have it. They wouldn't from Manning, either. Especially with a guy they hand picked to be OC.

Normal teams don't go to the Super Bowl, then fire their OC - especially the guy who called plays in 2 of the last 3 super bowls at the time of his firing...

That makes perfect sense, but some people can't let go of grudges from 2006 and 2010. Hell, the 2010 season wasn't even ruined.

Not hard to see why Terry Bradshaw stays away from this city.

[Slapstick]

Umm...use your brains for a second...

Perhaps someone is holding a grudge, but it isn't me...

This is a message board...our opinions don't matter...

If Ben has lost, or never gained, trust of someone important....well, who could that be?

[BlitzTo7]

Umm...use your brains for a second...

Perhaps someone is holding a grudge, but it isn't me...

This is a message board...our opinions don't matter...

If Ben has lost, or never gained, trust of someone important....well, who could that be?

If you're referring to Art II, then that makes him just as bad. Again, the Steelers had the chance to part ways with Ben after the incident in 2010, but they didn't. They kept him. So should they continue to "put him in his place" or should they build an offense around his strengths?

They've done the former for the past two seasons. It isn't working out too well. Then again, Art II is showing he has no football acumen at all. Just shows that Dan Rooney is a rarity amongst football owners.

[birtikidis]

I don't think anyone is holding a grudge. I think that Art just realizes that Ben hasn't turned into a world beater at QB and that they had more success when they limited him.

[birtikidis]

Not in the playoffs.

PIck six against the Saints.

Pick six against Ravens.

Troy's pick that was wiped out on a horrid call.

Peyton Manning is great in the regular season.

In the post season? Not so much.
I agree with that 100% and that's why I would rather have Ben then Manning. When was the last time a Peyton Manning led team won fewer than 10 games though?

[BlitzTo7]

I don't think anyone is holding a grudge. I think that Art just realizes that Ben hasn't turned into a world beater at QB and that they had more success when they limited him.

So you call what we are seeing currently as being success as opposed to 12-4?

[birtikidis]

Tell that to the trainer he tea-bagged, then lied about in a book years later which cost her a job, then had to pay her off.

Hahahahahahaha Locker room leader? Mr. "We had protection problems" himself?

Peyton's F-ups led to 17 Ravens points in his latest post season choke, and he STILL wouldn't take the blame.

Ben takes the blame CONSTANTLY! Upon himself.

Peyton (and Eli) gets a free pass because he kisses media ass and his daddy Archie played on bad teams.

And suckers like you fall for it hook, line, and sinker.
He gets a pass because he is a consistent regular season guy. I think he would win with what Ben has. I KNOW he'd choke it away in the playoffs. Ben is the exact opposite. Sometimes he plays down to the competition and it costs us. But in the playoffs he plays big.

[birtikidis]

Peyton's played in garbage divisions for most of his career. In the playoffs he doesn't get to beat up on doormats.
And Cincy and Cleveland are what?

[Slapstick]

If you're referring to Art II, then that makes him just as bad. Again, the Steelers had the chance to part ways with Ben after the incident in 2010, but they didn't. They kept him. So should they continue to "put him in his place" or should they build an offense around his strengths?

They've done the former for the past two seasons. It isn't working out too well. Then again, Art II is showing he has no football acumen at all. Just shows that Dan Rooney is a rarity amongst football owners.

Just as bad as who?

Who exactly screwed up here?

Not me...

Look at it this way:

In 2004, the Steelers spend the highest draft pick they've had in years on Ben...which I think, for the record, was a great idea...

So, the Steelers experience a lot of success with Big Ben...including a SB...

What happens? Ben, like a fool, rides around on a motorcycle without a helmet and gets into a life-threatening accident...

He is kept on the team and even given a new $102 million contract early in 2008...the Steelers experience more success, winning another SB...

What happens? Lake Tahoe. Guilt or innocence aside (I say innocent, for the record) Ben put himself in a bad situation...poor judgment...

After that? Milledgeville.

So, you have an owner who shells out $100+ million to a player and this is how the player conducts himself?

Rooney may not trust Roethlisberger...I don't know...I'm not him...but, I probably would feel very betrayed...

What's the solution? Cut him? Trade him?

If you were Art, would you blow up the team's salary cap in order to accommodate him?

I might not.

But, if you want to compare Manning's incident that happened 15+ years ago when he was still in college vs what Ben did over the last 7-8 years, go ahead...

Oh, and Dan is a rarity among owners...I wish the apple had fallen a little closer to the tree...

[feltdizz]

And Cincy and Cleveland are what?

teams we usually beat... and they were good to us for the last 5 years.

[feltdizz]

If Art is still holding grudges from 2010 AFTER he received permission from the NFL to attend Ben's 2011 wedding? Then he's the biggest phony in the organization and they should trade Ben and be done with it.

Don't defend Peyton either, YEARS LATER he defamed his victim in a book, which cost her means of making a living at the time when all she was trying to do was move on with her life. Hilarious still is how Slap has ignored Peyton's constant throwing under the bus of teammates when he can't win in the post season.

Pathetic, Steeler fans defending Peyton more than their own HOF QB. Did Peyton tea-bag you too?

And no, Ben wasn't riding around, like a fool, on a bike. He was going to the complex to workout, when HE was cut off, by an old bat in a car who doesn't know what a "Pittsburgh left" is.

You can attend a wedding and still think you are smarter than the groom.

Peyton was wrong for the te bag in the book but umm.. that was college. She was paid handsomely by UT.

Peyton definitely threw his team under the bus when he was sacked on consecutive plays... that's what some leaders do. Brady screamed like a lil beyotch all night on Thursday because his WR's were screwing up. It happens... I wish Ben would call out some of these scrubs on the OL instead of covering for them and bailing them out.

Some people have the ability to give Peyton credit without it hurting Ben's status... even if he is a regular season MVP's and a playoff bum. ..and his commercials are funny too..

and yes.. riding without a helmet when you are the franchise QB and everyone and their momma begged him not to...

[feltdizz]

The Bengals are on the verge of making the playoffs for the 5th time in 10 years. They are a far cry from the Bruce Coslet, David Shula led Bengals of years past.

how many playoff wins? Screw the bungles...

[phillyesq]

Manning can make up for the deficiencies of the offensive line. he gets rid of the ball quick and is smart enough to not throw it to the other team.

Manning gets rid of the ball very quickly, which has never been Ben's strong suit. However, with this group of receivers, it is tough to get the ball out quickly.

Manning has always had good recievers. This group is subpar.

[feltdizz]

Manning gets rid of the ball very quickly, which has never been Ben's strong suit. However, with this group of receivers, it is tough to get the ball out quickly.

Manning has always had good recievers. This group is subpar.

Nope... Manning makes his receivers look good because he throws them open and works them like crazy.

If Manning was here they would look better... but he would still throw.INTs. They all do...

[Eddie Spaghetti]

how did a Brown vs. Haley thread get on Ben?

oh wait, nevermind.

[BURGH86STEEL]

That may or may not be true about Manning being on this team, but you're comparing a quarterback that can drop back make his reads and throw the football with confidence that his O-line will provide the necessary protection for him. Ben, on the other hand, has no such confidence (at least it appears that way) and, in reality, Ben's protection is inconsistent which may be worse than always bad. Ben never knows if he'll get the time or not, Peyton is almost certain he will get the time.

Difficult to assess how a different quarterback would operate with this O-line.

Pappy
I think Manning would adapt to the situation or adversity he faces. People didn't believe he would play as well as he did in Denver. He prove those people wrong. He adjusted to not having 100% arm strength last season.

When Manning faces the pressure he either takes a sack, slides in the pocket, or releases the ball right before he takes a hit. Manning makes everyone he plays with better because of his preparation, ability to anticipate, and overall understanding of the game. The QB of an offense can make everyone on offense better. I believe that when a QB plays at a high level it can change the dynamic of the way defenses approaches or attacks an offense. Maybe a defense will blitz more/less or play different coverages based on the QB they face. There is no doubt in my mind that Manning would improve the Steelers scoring offense.

[SteelBuckeye]

I think Manning would adapt to the situation or adversity he faces. People didn't believe he would play as well as he did in Denver. He prove those people wrong. He adjusted to not having 100% arm strength last season.

When Manning faces the pressure he either takes a sack, slides in the pocket, or releases the ball right before he takes a hit. Manning makes everyone he plays with better because of his preparation, ability to anticipate, and overall understanding of the game. The QB of an offense can make everyone on offense better. I believe that when a QB plays at a high level it can change the dynamic of the way defenses approaches or attacks an offense. Maybe a defense will blitz more/less or play different coverages based on the QB they face. There is no doubt in my mind that Manning would improve the Steelers scoring offense.

If If was a fifth, we'd all be drunk. Manning isn't here. Ben is. So, why design an offense that does not play to his strengths? I know some of you believe he has none. It's like in some of your eyes he's morphed into Chad Henne and we'd be better of with anyone but him. I sure hope he isn't feeling this way. However, with the crap gameplanning and play calling along with the refusal to surround him with even one GRADE A skill player, it wouldn't surprise me if he chose not to resign here.

[Shoe]

I just think it's odd how everyone thinks this team is so awful. I hate to say this, and I know everyone is going to jump all over me for saying it, but this is a 10 win team with Peyton Manning on it.

It's possible. If you are adept at getting the ball out quickly and accurately, you'll do well in this offense... and the deficiencies in the offense will be minimized. 10 wins would be the top end, but I could certainly see it. Ben's big weakness is his inability (at least as it relates to the elite) to throw with great anticipation.

[Slapstick]

If If was a fifth, we'd all be drunk. Manning isn't here. Ben is. So, why design an offense that does not play to his strengths? I know some of you believe he has none. It's like in some of your eyes he's morphed into Chad Henne and we'd be better of with anyone but him. I sure hope he isn't feeling this way. However, with the crap gameplanning and play calling along with the refusal to surround him with even one GRADE A skill player, it wouldn't surprise me if he chose not to resign here.

The offense is designed to his strengths...he missed quite a few wide open players in Cincy...if he can complete those passes going forward, life will be good....

[SteelBuckeye]

The offense is designed to his strengths...he missed quite a few wide open players in Cincy...if he can complete those passes going forward, life will be good....

This offense? Designed to his strengths? If so, Haley has gone off the reservation with his play calling, limiting the ability to audible, etc etc etc. And truthfully, if the receivers/backs/TE's catch a few more catchable balls, and then actually don't fumble, life will be better than good ...

[winwithd]

I just think it's odd how everyone thinks this team is so awful. I hate to say this, and I know everyone is going to jump all over me for saying it, but this is a 10 win team with Peyton Manning on it.

Peyton Manning? I'd rather have Ben. And I still think this is a 10 win team with Ben.

I want to know why Markus Wheaton is not seeing the field. My co-worker, who is not a Steelers fan btw, jokes that he must be late for lunch every day so Tomlin's trying to teach him a lesson. Could it be Wheaton's in the doghouse for something?

[Eddie Spaghetti]

The offense is designed to his strengths...he missed quite a few wide open players in Cincy...if he can complete those passes going forward, life will be good....

wow.....

you can't believe that. I know you're a sunshine pumper, but c'mon man....

[Slapstick]

So, he didn't miss open guys in Cincy?

[Chadman]

Anyway.... back on the subject, confronting a coach, on the sideline, during the game is the same sort of unprofessional garbage that this team did so well last season.

The personal fouls, showboating & general lack of respect must be coming soon.

We've already reached the lack of ball security level of 2012.

[Slapstick]

Anyway.... back on the subject, confronting a coach, on the sideline, during the game is the same sort of unprofessional garbage that this team did so well last season.

The personal fouls, showboating & general lack of respect must be coming soon.

We've already reached the lack of ball security level of 2012.

You know, this has never happened to Haley before...;)

[FujiVice]

You know, this has never happened to Haley before...;)

Anyone who thinks this Haley offense is built to Ben's strengths has a vendetta against him.

[SteelBuckeye]

You know, this has never happened to Haley before...;)

Cassel, Warner, Johnson, Boldin et al. To paraphrase some posters here .. "what's the common denominator"? Haley. The man is simply a pestilence to a football team.

[FujiVice]

When Manning faces the pressure he either takes a sack, slides in the pocket, or releases the ball right before he takes a hit

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2013915/peytonINT_medium.gif

THE cardinal sin. NEVER throw across your body in the middle of the field unless someone is WIDE OPEN.

Why didn't the Football Genius throw it away? He was outside the pocket.

[feltdizz]

Anyone who thinks this Haley offense is built to Ben's strengths has a vendetta against him.

I agree... I know some people have faith and want this to work but I'm not seeing it at all.

[Sugar]

I agree... I know some people have faith and want this to work but I'm not seeing it at all.

That would be me! ;)

[Slapstick]

Ben's strengths are throwing the ball to the open man...

There were open guys and he missed them...

There are things that work within the offense...the Steelers would have scored in the first against TN if Redman has not fumbled the ball into the EZ...go ahead and blame Haley for that, that's cool...

Haley also made Paulson fumble...

I simply would like to see how the O performs when executed properly...Haley made the changes...he changed the terminology to make Ben and the players happy...he quit putting Beachum out there as another TE and went with more multiple WR formations...

What else should he do?

[NorthCoast]

I am not as convinced as some that Ben is being hamstrung by his OC. Ben has options to audible, Ben has outlets on most passes. HE is the one making the reads and choices. As others have pointed out, there were passes left on the field in Cinci and for whatever reason, Roethlisberger didn't see or ignored them.
The odd thing is if Ben is choosing to sabotage the O to spite the OC or FO, then he is as much a part of the problem as Wallace was last season.

[NJ-STEELER]

So Peyton makes Demarion's Thomas look better. A 6-3 230 LB 1st round draft pick that tore apart our team in the playoffs with Tim friggin tebow throwing him the ball. Yeah, he's talentless

I guess he also makes Wes welker better too. Never heard of the guy before he became a bronco. Maybe he'll make his first pro bowl this season then. LLol
harrison, Wayne, Clark. All bottom of the scrap heap type of guys like Paulson, wil and David Johnson.
ThAt pey pey sure is a miracle worker

I'd like to see one yeAr where Ben has as good as weapons as Peyton has had his entire career. Just look at last year for example. Our defense was #1 (again) and out offense struggled and when the draft came around we chose a LB with offensive weapons like eifert, Hopkins, and Patterson on the board.

The broncos. Already with a potent offense. Somehow fail to re sign a key defender and lose dumervil (some saying on purpose). With the money saved you think they would go fortify an average defense... Nope, they go out and sign the best slot receiver in the game

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

So Peyton makes Demarion's Thomas look better. A 6-3 230 LB 1st round draft pick that tore apart our team in the playoffs with Tim friggin tebow throwing him the ball. Yeah, he's talentless

I guess he also makes Wes welker better too. Never heard of the guy before he became a bronco. Maybe he'll make his first pro bowl this season then. LLol
harrison, Wayne, Clark. All bottom of the scrap heap type of guys like Paulson, wil and David Johnson.
ThAt pey pey sure is a miracle worker

I'd like to see one yeAr where Ben has as good as weapons as Peyton has had his entire career. Just look at last year for example. Our defense was #1 (again) and out offense struggled and when the draft came around we chose a LB with offensive weapons like eifert, Hopkins, and Patterson on the board.

The broncos. Already with a potent offense. Somehow fail to re sign a key defender and lose dumervil (some saying on purpose). With the money saved you think they would go fortify an average defense... Nope, they go out and sign the best slot receiver in the game

Yup, I think your point is a good one. WFT are we doing with a franchise QB and surrounding him with chicken-shot? I think maybe LeBeau has too much pull on draft day.

[phillyesq]

Nope... Manning makes his receivers look good because he throws them open and works them like crazy.

If Manning was here they would look better... but he would still throw.INTs. They all do...

He works his receivers, but compare the two groups:

- D. Thomas, Welker, Decker and J. Thomas; vs.
- Brown, Sanders, Cotchery, and Paulson.

He has much better weapons and it isn't close.

[feltdizz]

He works his receivers, but compare the two groups:

- D. Thomas, Welker, Decker and J. Thomas; vs.
- Brown, Sanders, Cotchery, and Paulson.

He has much better weapons and it isn't close.

no doubt he has better players right now.. but look at the Colts when Pryton went down.. all of a sudden those hot WR's look pathetic.

Funny thing though... a year or 2 or 3 years ago we had the best WR crew in football. BA's last year all we heard was "any other OC would score 30 points with all this talent"

We lose Wallace and all of a sudden we are horrible and have nothing at WR. I'm not buying it.. the same people bashing our WR's were singing their praises not too long ago. I know Wallace helped blow the lid off the D but it's not really that hard to put a big rookie out there and tell him to run straight. We just refuse to do it.

..and Wheaton and Moyer would be on our list if Peyton was our QB. No way would they ride the pine and get limited action. We don't have scrubs at WR.. we have an OC who refuses to use the talent around us properly.

[phillyesq]

no doubt he has better players right now.. but look at the Colts when Pryton went down.. all of a sudden those hot WR's look pathetic.

Funny thing though... a year or 2 or 3 years ago we had the best WR crew in football. BA's last year all we heard was "any other OC would score 30 points with all this talent"

We lose Wallace and all of a sudden we are horrible and have nothing at WR. I'm not buying it.. the same people bashing our WR's were singing their praises not too long ago. I know Wallace helped blow the lid off the D but it's not really that hard to put a big rookie out there and tell him to run straight. We just refuse to do it.

..and Wheaton and Moyer would be on our list if Peyton was our QB. No way would they ride the pine and get limited action. We don't have scrubs at WR.. we have an OC who refuses to use the talent around us properly.

I think it is both a talent and coaching issue.

I also think the impact of losing Wallace was underestimated by many. He took the top off and demanded a double team. Now, teams don't respect Brown or Sanders deep, there is no Heath across the middle, etc.

[feltdizz]

I think it is both a talent and coaching issue.

I also think the impact of losing Wallace was underestimated by many. He took the top off and demanded a double team. Now, teams don't respect Brown or Sanders deep, there is no Heath across the middle, etc.

The loss of Wallace and Heath is huge.. much bigger than I expected but I also thought Haley would have Wheaton going deep instead of Sanders. We should be 4 wide.. 5 wide.. with Jones in the backfield.

I know this wasn't the plan in the offseason but you gotta do what you gotta do when guys go down.

[Ghost]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2013915/peytonINT_medium.gif

THE cardinal sin. NEVER throw across your body in the middle of the field unless someone is WIDE OPEN.

Why didn't the Football Genius throw it away? He was outside the pocket.

Actually, NEVER get involved in a land war in Asia and NEVER go against a Sicilian when death is on the line would both come before throwing across your body in the middle of the field.

[feltdizz]

Ben's strengths are throwing the ball to the open man...

There were open guys and he missed them...

There are things that work within the offense...the Steelers would have scored in the first against TN if Redman has not fumbled the ball into the EZ...go ahead and blame Haley for that, that's cool...

Haley also made Paulson fumble...

I simply would like to see how the O performs when executed properly...Haley made the changes...he changed the terminology to make Ben and the players happy...he quit putting Beachum out there as another TE and went with more multiple WR formations...

What else should he do?

Dont use Redman except for pass protection... and don't use Paulson ifor run blocking

I dont think anyone is blaming Haley for fumbles... or for missed open WR's. Thats a good 5 or 6 plays... its the other 85% of the plays that are frustrating most of us.

[NJ-STEELER]

Fact. We don't have a top 2 round draft pick in our WR corps
how many other team can claim that

the browns?

Is that the team we want to compare to when discussing offensive weapons? A perennial bottom dweller

[Slapstick]

Ben's biggest skills are throwing deep, and attacking the middle of defenses. This offense doesn't do that.

Arians was hated for his WR screen use. The Pittsburgh guy does it even MORE, with little or no complaint.

Safe sideline one read crap with Ben? No. May as well bench him and keep him healthy, until it's feasible cap wise to trade/cut him.

Ben's true greatest skill is play-action...he is not a great deep ball passer...

He needs a running game to do that...

Edited to add: Not saying he's a terrible deep ball passer...

[NorthCoast]

The loss of Wallace and Heath is huge.. much bigger than I expected but I also thought Haley would have Wheaton going deep instead of Sanders. We should be 4 wide.. 5 wide.. with Jones in the backfield.

I know this wasn't the plan in the offseason but you gotta do what you gotta do when guys go down.


Agree feltdizz.. Heath accounted for 15% of the Steelers offense last season and Wallace was another 15%. If my math is correct, that's 30% of the offense that needed replaced.

Oh, btw, Dwyer accounted for another 14% of the offense..... so you have nearly 50% of the offense needing replaced by others having to step up. So far, it obviously hasn't happened.