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flippy
04-25-2013, 11:33 AM
We can make do with the roster we have. Give us some health and we're back to being a SuperBowl contender with the guys we have.

And what if guys like Woodley and Dwyer come into camp in shape this year? All of our problems could be fixed.

So it seems as fans we're fixated on guys that can come in and contribute right away. I'm hoping the Steelers get some guys that have long term potential and can develop into super stars of tomorrow.

Very few rookies have monster break out seasons their first year. They just take time to develop. And sometimes the guy that looks most ready to contribute today has the least upside because he's already peaked.

So would you prefer the Steelers play it safe or take some big time chances on guys that could be boom or bust?

Maybe that's the one thing we should change this year...go for broke.

NW Steeler
04-25-2013, 12:11 PM
Had Ben not been injured and our oline not ravaged by injury last year, we would have been a contender. I think we need to try to get some instant impact this year though.

RuthlessBurgher
04-25-2013, 12:19 PM
Colbert has the right point of view in my mind. Unlike many fans, he doesn't draft with the idea that a rookie needs to come in and contribute immediately. He looks for the guys who should have the biggest impact long-term. The guys that we draft over the next 3 days I expect to have an impact in 2014 and beyond...like Colbert said in his press conference, any impact they might make this season is a bonus.

I'm looking for last year's draft to have an impact this season. We are counting on DeCastro and Adams to be solid starters, opening holes for our RB's and keeping Ben upright. With Casey no longer on the roster, we'll need Ta'Amu to be able to rotate in with McLendon this year to keep everyone fresh. With Heath possibly on the shelf at the beginning of the season, we'll need Paulson to step up and contribute as both a blocker as well as a receiver. With all of the injuries occurring on our OL of late, we need versatile gameday backups we can count on, so we'll need Beachum to step up in the old Trai Essex role of being able to plug in at a variety of different positions along the OL at a moment's notice. The only one that I'm not counting on is Sean Spence, because of that gruesome knee injury. I consider 2013 to be his do-over rookie campaign, so I won't start expecting anything from him until 2014...if he heals up faster than expected and is able to contribute this year, then that will be a bonus, just like our 2013 draft class.

SteelBucks
04-25-2013, 12:30 PM
An 8-8 record = NEEDS

flippy
04-25-2013, 12:54 PM
The only one that I'm not counting on is Sean Spence, because of that gruesome knee injury. I consider 2013 to be his do-over rookie campaign, so I won't start expecting anything from him until 2014...if he heals up faster than expected and is able to contribute this year, then that will be a bonus, just like our 2013 draft class.

Wouldn't it be something if Spence made it back and could play this year at a high level? There was talk by Butler that Spence looked like he was a guy that could play in year 1 and he knew the defense almost immediately. What if by some miracle, he was back and in the starting lineup by mid season.

I don't see it happening. But I do agree on 2012 picks and think last year might have been Colbert/Tomlin's first great draft from top to bottom.

Captain Lemming
04-25-2013, 02:39 PM
We can make do with the roster we have. Give us some health and we're back to being a SuperBowl contender with the guys we have.

And what if guys like Woodley and Dwyer come into camp in shape this year? All of our problems could be fixed.

So it seems as fans we're fixated on guys that can come in and contribute right away. I'm hoping the Steelers get some guys that have long term potential and can develop into super stars of tomorrow.

Very few rookies have monster break out seasons their first year. They just take time to develop. And sometimes the guy that looks most ready to contribute today has the least upside because he's already peaked.

So would you prefer the Steelers play it safe or take some big time chances on guys that could be boom or bust?

Maybe that's the one thing we should change this year...go for broke.

I agree with the Colbert phylosophy not to "reach" to fill a specific immediate hole, rather go best available within a range of several positions that have immediate or near future needs.

Thus he avoids well stocked positions, while having 4 or 5 positions to choose from, with the goal of getting great value.

That hybrid method (neither narrow immediate need nor pure best available athlete, regardless of need) works best.

I do not like "boom or bust" picks in the first, especially if we are not drafting late. No need to do that in the middle of the first.

papillon
04-25-2013, 02:42 PM
An 8-8 record = NEEDS

Need Ben to stay healthy
Need Troy to stay healthy
Need Ike Taylor to be healthy
Need the offensive line to stay healthy
Need the OLBs to stay healthy
Need the draft to get here already :)
Need the season to start already :)

Pappy

Oviedo
04-25-2013, 02:48 PM
Had Ben not been injured and our oline not ravaged by injury last year, we would have been a contender. I think we need to try to get some instant impact this year though.

Our OL is ravaged by injuroies every year yet no one wants to spent "any more" quality picks on OL.

Oviedo
04-25-2013, 02:49 PM
Wouldn't it be something if Spence made it back and could play this year at a high level? There was talk by Butler that Spence looked like he was a guy that could play in year 1 and he knew the defense almost immediately. What if by some miracle, he was back and in the starting lineup by mid season.

I don't see it happening. But I do agree on 2012 picks and think last year might have been Colbert/Tomlin's first great draft from top to bottom.

Spence would be nice but I fear he will never come back to the level he was at. Just too much damage for a guy who was more about speed and explosion than power and strength.

pittpete
04-25-2013, 03:01 PM
O, you mean we might have a chance this year?
According to some on this board we are the second coming of the Cleveland Browns...
Glad I didn't cancel my DirectTV subscription:rolleyes:

steelz09
04-25-2013, 03:14 PM
This team needs young talent .. that's what it needs.

Even though Colbert doesn't want to admit it, he drafts for needs. He also drafts BPA. To his own admission, his drafts have historically been "BPA at a position of need". If you draft purely on "need" then you'll reach. He doesn't do that. He pinpoints his "need" positions and drafts the BPA based on the identified positions. For example, RB might be more of a need than OLB or WR for example, but if BPA is OLB then Colbert will go that route.

By "position of need", he doesn't mean necessarily this years immediate need. It could be next year's "need". Safety, Cornerback, ILB/OLB, RB, WR all meet that fundamental requirement.

SteelerOfDeVille
04-25-2013, 03:30 PM
We can make do with the roster we have. Give us some health and we're back to being a SuperBowl contender with the guys we have.

And what if guys like Woodley and Dwyer come into camp in shape this year? All of our problems could be fixed.

So it seems as fans we're fixated on guys that can come in and contribute right away. I'm hoping the Steelers get some guys that have long term potential and can develop into super stars of tomorrow.

Very few rookies have monster break out seasons their first year. They just take time to develop. And sometimes the guy that looks most ready to contribute today has the least upside because he's already peaked.

So would you prefer the Steelers play it safe or take some big time chances on guys that could be boom or bust?

Maybe that's the one thing we should change this year...go for broke.

I think when you go for boom or bust guys, you end up with a lot of busts and a lot of one-contract guys... say you take the best "long-term player" every single time and if it's close between two of them, but, one fits your needs, then, sure, you're allowed to skip down a few on your list...

If you rated every scouted player from 1-1000, there should be some pre-determined number (say 10) that you're allowed to skip down to make a selection. In other words, if I'm staring at the 24th best player on the board, but, he's a a position i have and it's solid, I DO NOT select the 50th best player on the board because "he fills a need".

btw, i still visualize "happy" ronald mcdonald every time i read one of your posts.. that's a good thing... it's hard to get angry with that dude.

B&GinNC
04-25-2013, 03:46 PM
Spence would be nice but I fear he will never come back to the level he was at. Just too much damage for a guy who was more about speed and explosion than power and strength.

I agree. By all accounts I'll be shocked if he ever plays a down in the NFL.

RuthlessBurgher
04-25-2013, 03:55 PM
By "position of need", he doesn't mean necessarily this years immediate need. It could be next year's "need".

Agree with this. It's like playing chess. The guy who is thinking 2 or 3 moves ahead tends to beat the guy who is only focused on what's right in front of him at the present time.

Captain Lemming
04-25-2013, 04:18 PM
This team needs young talent .. that's what it needs.

Even though Colbert doesn't want to admit it, he drafts for needs. He also drafts BPA. To his own admission, his drafts have historically been "BPA at a position of need". If you draft purely on "need" then you'll reach. He doesn't do that. He pinpoints his "need" positions and drafts the BPA based on the identified positions. For example, RB might be more of a need than OLB or WR for example, but if BPA is OLB then Colbert will go that route.

By "position of need", he doesn't mean necessarily this years immediate need. It could be next year's "need". Safety, Cornerback, ILB/OLB, RB, WR all meet that fundamental requirement.

My point exactly.
Example: Eifert

People keep citing the loss of Miller for part of the season as a reason.
I do not think Colbert thinks that way at all.

Not tight end might be in that category of "near future" needs. Fine. We might take him.

But he will be in a pool of players from several positions we consider.
Without regards to Heaths injury, the losses at RB, or the loss of JH or Wallace, this team will look at ALL the players at those and a few other positions and pick the best guy.

If it IS Eifort, it will be because he is the best available at one of a number of need positions.

On the other hand our first round pick will NOT be a QB or Center for example because there is an element of need (current or future) that figures into the formula.