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View Full Version : Steelers could pull Redman's tender offer



Oviedo
04-17-2013, 09:32 AM
Not a bad idea if it helps them get a healthy Bradshaw. Redman will be nothing more than a back up throughout his career as many have pointed out since Day 1. This move would likely require drafting a RB NLT than Round 3 to get a good one.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2013/4/15/4225978/steelers-isaac-redman-tender-offer-salary-cap

Pretty stupid on Redman's part not to have already signed the offer. He must have the same agent as James Harrison.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-17-2013, 09:36 AM
Not a bad idea if it helps them get a healthy Bradshaw. Redman will be nothing more than a back up throughout his career as many have pointed out since Day 1. This move would likely require drafting a RB NLT than Round 3 to get a good one.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2013/4/15/4225978/steelers-isaac-redman-tender-offer-salary-cap

Pretty stupid on Redman's part not to have already signed the offer. He must have the same agent as James Harrison.

I think that would be the wise thing to do if they want to sign Bradshaw. Redman got ZERO interest and like I have been saying, he is going to be 29...We have seen who he is. He should have knocked Dwyer out of the door to sign his tender but he didn't. Pull his tender, sign Bradshaw, and draft another. Redman will be on the street IF they want/need him and he might have to come back for vet min which is less.

feltdizz
04-17-2013, 09:37 AM
hmm... I'm getting the feeling some of our players aren't happy with the FO moves lately. I wonder if the BA firing had a bigger impact than we expected... you go from an OC everyone BUT the fans loved to a guy that maybe no one BUT the FO loves.

Oviedo
04-17-2013, 09:39 AM
hmm... I'm getting the feeling some of our players aren't happy with the FO moves lately. I wonder if the BA firing had a bigger impact than we expected... you go from an OC everyone BUT the fans loved to a guy that maybe no one BUT the FO loves.

Or you go to an Off Coord who isn't your buddy and lets you know that you need to perform to a higher standard than you have been and he isn't going to kiss your backside. We all believe that the offense underachieved under Arians and I'm sure the pressure in on from haley.

I don't see Haley letting the players sit in a comfoort zone and there are mariginal player like Redman I'm sure he let know that they were replaceable. Sometimes in life the teacher you hated the most in school is the one who prepared you best for life and success.

phillyesq
04-17-2013, 09:46 AM
Most of these guys do not sign their tenders until the restricted free agency period ends. Dwyer signing early was the exception, not the rule. I also believe that these tenders are not guaranteed, so there is really no reason for a player to sign a non-guaranteed tender early that forecloses seeking employment elsewhere on more favorable terms.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-17-2013, 10:14 AM
Most of these guys do not sign their tenders until the restricted free agency period ends. Dwyer signing early was the exception, not the rule. I also believe that these tenders are not guaranteed, so there is really no reason for a player to sign a non-guaranteed tender early that forecloses seeking employment elsewhere on more favorable terms.

Once a team submits a RFA tender it is held against the teams rule 51 even if unsigned. It becomes guranteed once signed and the team can not pull the tender. If the Steelers want to maintain rights..His 1.3 mil counts aginst the cap. With the current Steelers RB situation and Redman, Dwyer, & Mendy playing below the line in 2012...It would have been wise on his part to sign early and show commitment. The Steelers showed some by even offering that to him. If he thought he could use leverage against the Steelers by getting an offer somewhere else...He was mistaken.

Shoe
04-17-2013, 10:23 AM
I actually would show someone like Redman (backup caliber player who adds something to the overall character of a team--e.g. Frank Pollard, Jerry Olsavsky), but he proverbially crapped the bed this year. He showed no urgency, limited ability (in a leading role), and sporadic toughness.

Whereas I would be mad if we let go a player like this, I'm FINE with letting Redman go now if the FO so chooses. (I think I feel burned by him, bragging to all my non-Steeler friends about him before last season!)

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
04-17-2013, 10:26 AM
I'd have no problem with his tender being yanked. I don't think that his production as a backup would be difficult to replace.

phillyesq
04-17-2013, 11:14 AM
Once a team submits a RFA tender it is held against the teams rule 51 even if unsigned. It becomes guranteed once signed and the team can not pull the tender. If the Steelers want to maintain rights..His 1.3 mil counts aginst the cap. With the current Steelers RB situation and Redman, Dwyer, & Mendy playing below the line in 2012...It would have been wise on his part to sign early and show commitment. The Steelers showed some by even offering that to him. If he thought he could use leverage against the Steelers by getting an offer somewhere else...He was mistaken.

Does it become guaranteed? It was my understanding that the Steelers could cut Redman or Dwyer in camp and that their salary would not be guaranteed. Is that incorrect?

steelblood
04-17-2013, 12:02 PM
I actually would show someone like Redman (backup caliber player who adds something to the overall character of a team--e.g. Frank Pollard, Jerry Olsavsky), but he proverbially crapped the bed this year. He showed no urgency, limited ability (in a leading role), and sporadic toughness.

Whereas I would be mad if we let go a player like this, I'm FINE with letting Redman go now if the FO so chooses. (I think I feel burned by him, bragging to all my non-Steeler friends about him before last season!)

Huh? sporadic toughness? crapped the bed?

Redman is not uber talented, but questioning his toughness is plain insanity.

Go back and watch the Giants game. He played hurt and ran like a man possessed all game long. He was injured through most of last season. It happens.

feltdizz
04-17-2013, 12:06 PM
Or you go to an Off Coord who isn't your buddy and lets you know that you need to perform to a higher standard than you have been and he isn't going to kiss your backside. We all believe that the offense underachieved under Arians and I'm sure the pressure in on from haley.

I don't see Haley letting the players sit in a comfoort zone and there are mariginal player like Redman I'm sure he let know that they were replaceable. Sometimes in life the teacher you hated the most in school is the one who prepared you best for life and success.

that's bullchit... you say that now but if players keep leaving and production keeps suffering under Haley I think you will change your tune. Whether you want to admit it or not an OC needs to win players over.

This isn't a movie... Haley needs to show me he can win players over talented players.

feltdizz
04-17-2013, 12:09 PM
Huh? sporadic toughness? crapped the bed?

Redman is not uber talented, but questioning his toughness is plain insanity.

Go back and watch the Giants game. He played hurt and ran like a man possessed all game long. He was injured through most of last season. It happens.

questioning Redman is crazy talk... he is what he is... I wanted him to be more but he is a chain mover. Nothing more...

anyone who thought he would be a top 10 RB (that includes me, LOL) needs to blame themselves, not Redman. For the record..I expected him to put up some 100 yard games.. I didn't expect him to be Peterson or Frank Gore.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-17-2013, 01:37 PM
Does it become guaranteed? It was my understanding that the Steelers could cut Redman or Dwyer in camp and that their salary would not be guaranteed. Is that incorrect?

Perhaps someone could clarify. My understanding is if a tender is signed...It is guranteed. Obviously once signed it can not be withdrawn. If a tender is unsigned...It still counts under rule 51 unless withdrawn. If withdrawn, he becomes an URFA. If he doesn't sign it in the next week or so, he can only sign with the Steelers to play in the 2013 league year. Come June 1st, there are different things that could happen if the tender remains unsigned where the Steelers could withdraw and offer another number while retaining his rights. To answer your question, I do believe any RFA tender including right of first refusal is guranteed in that league year once signed.

phillyesq
04-17-2013, 09:12 PM
Perhaps someone could clarify. My understanding is if a tender is signed...It is guranteed. Obviously once signed it can not be withdrawn. If a tender is unsigned...It still counts under rule 51 unless withdrawn. If withdrawn, he becomes an URFA. If he doesn't sign it in the next week or so, he can only sign with the Steelers to play in the 2013 league year. Come June 1st, there are different things that could happen if the tender remains unsigned where the Steelers could withdraw and offer another number while retaining his rights. To answer your question, I do believe any RFA tender including right of first refusal is guranteed in that league year once signed.

If anybody has the time and desire to see if the CBA clarifies this, have at it!!

http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/files/PDFs/General/2011_Final_CBA_Searchable_Bookmarked.pdf

Chadman
04-17-2013, 10:15 PM
With the Steelers cap so strapped, and with key players moving on, Chadman can't see the benefit in having 2 RB's that essentially perform the same task on gameday on the roster, at the same cost against the cap.

They have Dwyer, who is a tough, between the tackles, RB. Why get Redman, who is the same type of RB?

phillyesq
04-17-2013, 10:34 PM
With the Steelers cap so strapped, and with key players moving on, Chadman can't see the benefit in having 2 RB's that essentially perform the same task on gameday on the roster, at the same cost against the cap.

They have Dwyer, who is a tough, between the tackles, RB. Why get Redman, who is the same type of RB?

Redman is a bit more versatile - I think he's a better receiver, and he can also lead block and run as a FB. I think $1.2 million or whatever the actual number is seems like decent compensation for Redman - not a bargain, not a great deal. If it came down to Redman or Bradshaw, then yes, I'd take Bradshaw, but I'd prefer Bradshaw, Redman, Dwyer and a pick.

Chadman
04-17-2013, 10:44 PM
Redman is a bit more versatile - I think he's a better receiver, and he can also lead block and run as a FB. I think $1.2 million or whatever the actual number is seems like decent compensation for Redman - not a bargain, not a great deal. If it came down to Redman or Bradshaw, then yes, I'd take Bradshaw, but I'd prefer Bradshaw, Redman, Dwyer and a pick.

Agreed to a degree- Redman is a more rounded type of RB to Dwyer. But not enough, in Chadman's opinion, to sink another $1m into. Bradshaw is worth the money they want to pay Redman. Get him signed, draft a RB at some point & pick up a UDFA to be the 4th guy to push/compete with Batch for the #4 RB spot.

Rara
04-17-2013, 10:57 PM
Pull the tender away, sign Bradshaw. Boom, done.

thor75
04-17-2013, 11:29 PM
Whatever they do with Bradshaw, I hope its after the draft. This guy's feet are a mess, I'd hate to sink the money into him (whatever the amount) for him to be hurt and not able to contribute. There's so little money, why take the chance? I'd rather use the money on Starks but the FO doesn't seem to want him back for whatever reason. Is the risk of a proven vet who is often injured less than drafting a RB and picking one up as an UDFA? I think I would prefer the latter.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
04-17-2013, 11:49 PM
If anybody has the time and desire to see if the CBA clarifies this, have at it!!

http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/files/PDFs/General/2011_Final_CBA_Searchable_Bookmarked.pdf

I am pretty sure that the tender can be pulled at any time prior to it being signed, and then the money returns to the cap. Once signed, the tender is guaranteed for the season. This comes from memory, not actual research, so it is potentially as flawed as I am. :D

Slapstick
04-18-2013, 06:15 AM
The reason that Redman is still on the roster is that, unlike Dwyer, he is a legit short yardage back...both are "between the tackles" types, but Dwyer failed more often in short yardage situations, comparatively...

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-18-2013, 09:30 AM
Agreed to a degree- Redman is a more rounded type of RB to Dwyer. But not enough, in Chadman's opinion, to sink another $1m into. Bradshaw is worth the money they want to pay Redman. Get him signed, draft a RB at some point & pick up a UDFA to be the 4th guy to push/compete with Batch for the #4 RB spot.

I'm with the line of thinking neither Dwyer or Redman took advantage of their opportunity to distinguish themselves as a #1. Redman will be 29 & Dwyer still could have some upside. If they sign Bradshaw & draft one there is no need for Redman IMO. If they don't sign Bradshaw and look to the draft, I would wait until it all unfolds to make a decision.

Oviedo
04-18-2013, 09:38 AM
I'm with the line of thinking neither Dwyer or Redman took advantage of their opportunity to distinguish themselves as a #1. Redman will be 29 & Dwyer still could have some upside. If they sign Bradshaw & draft one there is no need for Redman IMO. If they don't sign Bradshaw and look to the draft, I would wait until it all unfolds to make a decision.

I tend to agree. Set Redman adrift. Sign a vet like Bradshaw or trade for Ivory. Draft a RB about Round 3. Still got Batch on the roster too with a full year experience and a full year of recovery from his knee injury. Sign a UDFA too. That will be alot of competition in the backfield.

Obviously the key is that Dwyer has to "get it" this season and play up to his potential.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-18-2013, 10:24 AM
I tend to agree. Set Redman adrift. Sign a vet like Bradshaw or trade for Ivory. Draft a RB about Round 3. Still got Batch on the roster too with a full year experience and a full year of recovery from his knee injury. Sign a UDFA too. That will be alot of competition in the backfield.

Obviously the key is that Dwyer has to "get it" this season and play up to his potential.

I think you are right about Dwyer. He has a one way ticket in 2013 and the only way the Steelers pick up the tab for his return is if he becomes what they thought he could be. His problem is he may have to do it with less reps than he was given last year. He may really regret his 2012 effort when he is looking out at the offense from the sideline just hoping for a touch.

ikestops85
04-18-2013, 11:17 AM
I think you are right about Dwyer. He has a one way ticket in 2013 and the only way the Steelers pick up the tab for his return is if he becomes what they thought he could be. His problem is he may have to do it with less reps than he was given last year. He may really regret his 2012 effort when he is looking out at the offense from the sideline just hoping for a touch.

I'm not so sure he will regret not making the effort. Hell, I'll stand on the sidelines and watch, hoping I don't get a touch, for 1.2 million. :D

Shoe
04-18-2013, 07:48 PM
Huh? sporadic toughness? crapped the bed?

Redman is not uber talented, but questioning his toughness is plain insanity.

Go back and watch the Giants game. He played hurt and ran like a man possessed all game long. He was injured through most of last season. It happens.

Call it what you want: toughness, work ethic, dedication... whatever it is, he lacks it. I will admit; I had some pretty lofty hopes for him as a feature back. In that regard, he did crap the bed. But I'm not talking just production. When Mendenhall ended the season on IR, that was Redman's alarm clock to grab destiny by the horns. The man in front of him gets hurt, he (Redman) finishes the season with two 100-yard games, and he is about to enter a contract year. Opportunity was knocking, HARD.

What did he do? He came to camp, in probably the same shape he normally does. And he proceeded to injure his groin/hip/ankle whatever it was. Now... injuries do happen, but how you return from injury is telling. The guy showed no urgency. That is what I mean by crap the bed. He had a likewise young stallion alongside him (who BTW, also basically crapped his bed too).

I think of the scene from Braveheart where Wallace asks the Army whether they, in the future as old men, would be willing to trade all the days they might live, for a chance to come back to that moment and fight for themselves. This was his one moment. It was on a golden platter. And he proceeded to poop himself (with his lack of _____. I called it toughness.)