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Mister Pittsburgh
04-15-2013, 07:14 PM
Does anyone else find the reason the Steelers gave for letting Keenan Lewis walk a totally misleading reason? When questioned on why they let Keenan Lewis walk for a cap friendly and cheap deal the Steelers stated that they let him walk because they like Cortez Allen. Meanwhile, their other starting CB is in his 30's, has a very expensive contract, and is coming off a season in which he broke his leg.

Should the easy follow up question not have been 'what about Ike'? If they like Allen so much, why not cut Ike then sign Lewis and have your CB position locked up for seasons to come? They didn't even offer Lewis a deal at all!

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
04-15-2013, 07:46 PM
Then the obvious reason must be that they simply did not want Lewis. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

Big Ern McCracken
04-15-2013, 07:49 PM
Does anyone else find the reason the Steelers gave for letting Keenan Lewis walk a totally misleading reason? When questioned on why they let Keenan Lewis walk for a cap friendly and cheap deal the Steelers stated that they let him walk because they like Cortez Allen. Meanwhile, their other starting CB is in his 30's, has a very expensive contract, and is coming off a season in which he broke his leg.

Should the easy follow up question not have been 'what about Ike'? If they like Allen so much, why not cut Ike then sign Lewis and have your CB position locked up for seasons to come? They didn't even offer Lewis a deal at all!

Very well stated. They have a pile of "Bad money" tied up in a few older guys that are a year or so away from being done... should have sent Ike on his way and signed Lewis to a long term deal.. then had money to spare. It's a shame when you don't have a million and change to sign your number 2 receiver, or basically a vet minimum to sign Allen, which did very well in troy's absence...

all the while paying the elder statesmen of the team several million to stand on the sidelines in sweatpants.

birtikidis
04-15-2013, 08:23 PM
It wasn't long ago that Lewis was busting out glass after getting torched an entire game. He had one good year and, to be honest, it wasn't a great year. Just solid. Let someone else over pay for him.

Steelhere10
04-15-2013, 08:28 PM
It wasn't long ago that Lewis was busting out glass after getting torched an entire game. He had one good year and, to be honest, it wasn't a great year. Just solid. Let someone else over pay for him.I been saying that since he left.

Big Ern McCracken
04-15-2013, 08:31 PM
If you guys recall... "Solid" has been very hard to come by for the steelers secondary.

Mister Pittsburgh
04-15-2013, 09:22 PM
It wasn't long ago that Lewis was busting out glass after getting torched an entire game. He had one good year and, to be honest, it wasn't a great year. Just solid. Let someone else over pay for him.

Overpay? For a starting CB? Hardly! Ike makes twice what Lewis signed for.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
04-15-2013, 10:27 PM
Overpay? For a starting CB? Hardly! Ike makes twice what Lewis signed for.

Ike covers the opponent's best receiver, and generally does a very good job of it. He gets no turnovers, but he does a very good job of holding down his responsibility. ewis never came close to the same level of responsibility that Ike carries out every game.

steelz09
04-15-2013, 10:30 PM
People have short memories with saying... Lewis had 1 good season. Laughable. How many times did Ike get benched by Cowher for his inconsistent play? Let's not forget that. The other "knock" on Lewis is that he's not a playmaker and doesn't create turnovers. LOL! "Not a playmaker" and "not creating turnovers" sounds like Mr. Ike Taylor throughout his entire career.

Regardless of what the Steelers FO say, letting Lewis go was the worst offseason move thus far.

Not only is it bad that we didn't sign Lewis..... IT'S WORSE that the Steelers thought the better option was to pay a 33.5 y/o Ike Taylor ELITE MONEY! Oh, and let's not forget that Ike is due 10.5 million next year. If Ike was cut this year as he should have, he would have come off the books next year.

Words cannot explain how dumb the Steelers are for keeping Ike over Lewis especially considering the contract that Lewis accepted in NO.

NorthCoast
04-15-2013, 10:46 PM
People have short memories with saying... Lewis had 1 good season. Laughable. How many times did Ike get benched by Cowher for his inconsistent play? Let's not forget that. The other "knock" on Lewis is that he's not a playmaker and doesn't create turnovers. LOL! "Not a playmaker" and "not creating turnovers" sounds like Mr. Ike Taylor throughout his entire career.

Regardless of what the Steelers FO say, letting Lewis go was the worst offseason move thus far.

Not only is it bad that we didn't sign Lewis..... IT'S WORSE that the Steelers thought the better option was to pay a 33.5 y/o Ike Taylor ELITE MONEY! Oh, and let's not forget that Ike is due 10.5 million next year. If Ike was cut this year as he should have, he would have come off the books next year.

Words cannot explain how dumb the Steelers are for keeping Ike over Lewis especially considering the contract that Lewis accepted in NO.

For a 4th rd draft choice, Ike has FAR exceeded expectations. In 8 seasons of starting, Ike has played in 15 or more games in 6 of those. I go with the guy that has been there, done it consistently year after year. Ike still has something in the tank and the FO knows it.

flippy
04-15-2013, 10:56 PM
I think keeping Ike says the Steelers still want to win now. Lewis had one decent season after looking horrible up until that point. So maybe the Steelers think he'll be eaten alive covering #1 WRs. Lewis surprised me. I thought he might actually get cut last season.

Long term, Cortez is the best corner on the team hands down. And maybe the Steelers want to keep Ike so they can bring along Cortez slowly. CBs a position about confidence, so I see no problem giving Cortez a runway to confidence. And who better to learn from. Ike may have the worst hands and ball awareness, but he covers as well as anyone and is probably the best tackling corner in the game.

Plus the Steelers have a leadership problem. And Ike's one of the best guys on the team. I know a lot of guys work hard, but I suspect Ike's the real hardest working player on the team. He always shows up in mid season form to start training camp. And he's always inviting other guys to work out with him. If he could get Woodley, Dwyer, etc working out with him, we'd be golden.

steelz09
04-15-2013, 11:00 PM
For a 4th rd draft choice, Ike has FAR exceeded expectations. In 8 seasons of starting, Ike has played in 15 or more games in 6 of those. I go with the guy that has been there, done it consistently year after year. Ike still has something in the tank and the FO knows it.

Never said that he didn't exceed expectations. My point is that the Steelers made a dumb FO decision for the future of this team. Ike might have "something" left in the tank. Is that "something" worth 9.5 million this year and 10.5 million next year? Hell No. In Ike's best years, he wasn't worth that type of money. He certainly isn't worth that money now either.

steelz09
04-15-2013, 11:04 PM
I think keeping Ike says the Steelers still want to win now. Lewis had one decent season after looking horrible up until that point. So maybe the Steelers think he'll be eaten alive covering #1 WRs. Lewis surprised me. I thought he might actually get cut last season.

Long term, Cortez is the best corner on the team hands down. And maybe the Steelers want to keep Ike so they can bring along Cortez slowly. CBs a position about confidence, so I see no problem giving Cortez a runway to confidence. And who better to learn from. Ike may have the worst hands and ball awareness, but he covers as well as anyone and is probably the best tackling corner in the game.

Plus the Steelers have a leadership problem. And Ike's one of the best guys on the team. I know a lot of guys work hard, but I suspect Ike's the real hardest working player on the team. He always shows up in mid season form to start training camp. And he's always inviting other guys to work out with him. If he could get Woodley, Dwyer, etc working out with him, we'd be golden.

Ok.. so whats wrong with Allen as the future #1 and Lewis as the future #2? It was a stupid FO move. If I was a Rooney, I would have already fired whoever was in charge of that decision.

And defense isn't the one lacking leadership.... It's primarily the offense.

Shawn
04-15-2013, 11:22 PM
Lewis had a terrific season. Lets not degrade what he did. There was something more here. I have been saying this for awhile now, but I believe the locker room had been tainted by immaturity, me first attitudes, chit chat, and division. The leadership void left by Hines and Smith was never filled. I believe there were problem children and I believe a house cleaning was in order from a financial and a attitude standpoint.

Mister Pittsburgh
04-16-2013, 12:10 AM
If they need more leadership beyond foote, Keisel, Clark, Troy, Timmons, Ben, Heath, pouncey to keep things on the right track, then Tomlin needs canned. With a former DC then HC as the current DC, and former OC then HC as his OC, his only true job is team maintenance.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
04-16-2013, 12:18 AM
I like Ike and all, but I just can't forget how he single-handedly let Tebow beat us at a time we coulda been a contenduh. Now maybe that's not how it happened, but it's how I remember it, so if anyone can set me straight otherwise, I'd appreciate it!

flippy
04-16-2013, 01:46 AM
I like Ike and all, but I just can't forget how he single-handedly let Tebow beat us at a time we coulda been a contenduh. Now maybe that's not how it happened, but it's how I remember it, so if anyone can set me straight otherwise, I'd appreciate it!

I'm not sure who was to blame but there's no way Ike would have given Thomas the inside if he had no help. I think it was Mundy that should have been helping him.

Ike gets beat by his lack of ball awareness sometimes, but he usually doesn't get beat because of his lack of coverage. Ike gives cushions and makes tackles, but he doesn't give a guy 80 yards worth of cushion.

I blame Lebeau for a lack of game plan in that game. And Ben for a sporadic offense.

Big Ern McCracken
04-16-2013, 05:53 AM
This has turned into an excellent debate. I like Ike Taylor. He is always stuck with the #1 receiver... and does a solid job more times than not. Ike may have a year or two left, but we have to ask if he is worth the 9 to 10 million a year that he is owed the next two years. How many solid players would we be able to sign with that kind of cap space, in order to fill other areas of need? We certainly wouldn't be worried about finding an extra million to sign guys like A.Bradshaw, who would be a definite upgrade from what we have had at RB the last few years.

In my opinion, Lewis had a very good season last year under Carnell Lake. He should be seen as a player who is on the rise, with the potential of several more years at that level of play. If Ike goes, and Lewis stays, we get younger, free up money, and the level of play does not drop off. If the FO would have done their jobs this year, we could have let go of some of the "Dead money", extended some contracts with the younger guys who are producing, and have been legitimate contenders once again.

Looking at some of the supposed problem guys on the team... that is all on Tomblin as a Head Coach and disciplinarian. Hate to say it, but it looks like we need a guy like Cowher in there to get the players heads screwed on straight.. After all of the success that Tomblin has had... I cant believe I'm questioning his leadership ability...

Sugar
04-16-2013, 10:56 AM
Just a few things to note. First, Lewis was not covering the top WR's most of the time so to say that there would be little to no dropoff if we'd kept him instead of Ike just seems like a silly thing to assert. Secondly, let's remember that Cowher left after an 8-8 season so it's not like he was above any of what we see now.

I'm not sure about the cap issues, but Lewis was the FA, not Ike. He got interest from another team and the Steelers had Allen waiting there who they thought would be just as good. I guess it doesn't seem that complicated to me.

NorthCoast
04-16-2013, 12:40 PM
Ike Taylor's base is $6M (8th in NFL for CBs), cap is $9.5M (5th in NFL). Ike is certainly top 10, but one could question top 5. Champ Bailey is same age as Ike commands $11M cap (3rd in NFL) and had all of 2 ints last season. Is he worth it? Point is, solid #1 CBs are very hard to find (and keep without paying).

NorthCoast
04-16-2013, 12:50 PM
.... and the level of play does not drop off......

What evidence do you have of this statement?

Was Lewis successful in covering AJ Green 2x last season? or Troy Smith? has Lewis ever had to defend a C Johnson? there simply is no evidence to support your claim.

feltdizz
04-16-2013, 12:52 PM
Just a few things to note. First, Lewis was not covering the top WR's most of the time so to say that there would be little to no dropoff if we'd kept him instead of Ike just seems like a silly thing to assert. Secondly, let's remember that Cowher left after an 8-8 season so it's not like he was above any of what we see now.

I'm not sure about the cap issues, but Lewis was the FA, not Ike. He got interest from another team and the Steelers had Allen waiting there who they thought would be just as good. I guess it doesn't seem that complicated to me.

The problem is we don't know if Allen is just as good... it takes YEARS to find a CB who can play in our system and as soon as it looked like Lewis figured things out we let him go. Another 2 or 3 years starting in our system and I think Lewis would have been a solid #1..

feltdizz
04-16-2013, 12:56 PM
What evidence do you have of this statement?

Was Lewis successful in covering AJ Green 2x last season? or Troy Smith? has Lewis ever had to defend a C Johnson? there simply is no evidence to support your claim.

Who has been successful covering any of these guys? Unless you get pressure on the QB 99% of the CB's in the NFL will lose this battle.

steelz09
04-16-2013, 01:48 PM
What evidence do you have of this statement?

Was Lewis successful in covering AJ Green 2x last season? or Troy Smith? has Lewis ever had to defend a C Johnson? there simply is no evidence to support your claim.

We'll never have that evidence because we decided to keep an aging, costly player over Lewis. I think you are missing the fundamental point. Ike has been a very good Steeler. He has been very durable over the years and has blanketed many teams #1 WRs over the years. No one is disputing that.

The argument is that you could have locked up a younger player at the CB position for a very reasonable cost. Maybe he isn't a #1 but he's definitely a #2. If Lewis is unproven as a starter then what does that make Cortez Allen? That is not a knock on the guy. He's still good enough to be a #2, at worst and he's proven that. If Allen turns out like we hope, he will be our #1 for years to come.

Essentially, we could have locked up our future #1 and #2 CB for years to come. Instead, we let our future #2 (at worst) walk. For what reason? To keep Ike Taylor for ONE MORE YEAR (he'll likely get cut next year anyway) ?!?!? Now, we have to draft and develop another CB for a couple of years when we already had that CB on the roster. Let's not forget, the Steelers have a ton of holes on this team. It would have been nice to say, "CB isn't a need" going into this draft. Now, it is along with numerous other positions. Hell, we don't even have enough draft picks to cover all the team needs as it currently stands.

Cutting Ike this year causes some dead cap $ but you save ALL of his 10.5 dollar salary next year. Ike isn't making "good CB money". He is making ELITE CB money. Cutting Ike this year and signing Lewis was close to a wash from a financial standpoint. However, next year you save the full 10.5 million. In addition, the Steelers would have their #2 (at worst) CB still on the team and you could use some of that 10.5 million of cap space next year to sign your anticipated #1 (Cortez Allen). Not a bad strategy IMO. Unfortunately, the Steelers FO weakened this team's future from a positional standpoint and from a salary cap standpoint (due to Ike's salary for this year and next).

Steelcage
04-16-2013, 03:52 PM
Ike is solid. The steelers didn't want to give a 3rd corner starters money. The thought of Lewis covering the opponents best receiver on a regular basis would not help nore make our defense better. Ike usually takes away one of the opponents best weapon per game that is huge you can't say that about to many corners out there. If Ike was gone and Lewis was here there would be a lot of B&G tears during the games. You don't know what you had until it's gone. I'm glad this isn't pertaining to Ike and we won't miss Lewis.

NorthCoast
04-16-2013, 06:25 PM
Fact 1: when Ike was injured Keenan was not assigned to his position, it was Allen.
Fact 2: Keenan wanted to play in front of the hometown
Fact 3: Pre-Ike injury last season; pass defense avg'd 159 yds/gm, while Ike was out 241 yds

The facts don't support that Ike=Keenan, now or ever.

I have no problem with the Steelers honoring his contract as he has been a solid contributor in games played.

NorthCoast
04-16-2013, 06:38 PM
Who has been successful covering any of these guys? Unless you get pressure on the QB 99% of the CB's in the NFL will lose this battle.

Ike has. First Bengals game w Ike, Green was 4/38 yds, second game when Ike was out 10/116 yds. And this isn't an isolated game. Ike shuts the other guy out, period. Its one side of the field the Steelers dont have to worry about.

Point is, most of you are waaaay undervaluing Ike's abilities.

DukieBoy
04-16-2013, 07:27 PM
Who has been successful covering any of these guys? Unless you get pressure on the QB 99% of the CB's in the NFL will lose this battle.


Right on !

And I think Cortez will be very good.

BURGH86STEEL
04-16-2013, 07:40 PM
Ike has. First Bengals game w Ike, Green was 4/38 yds, second game when Ike was out 10/116 yds. And this isn't an isolated game. Ike shuts the other guy out, period. Its one side of the field the Steelers dont have to worry about.

Point is, most of you are waaaay undervaluing Ike's abilities.
Your statement pretty much sums it up.

Big Ern McCracken
04-16-2013, 08:06 PM
What evidence do you have of this statement?

Was Lewis successful in covering AJ Green 2x last season? or Troy Smith? has Lewis ever had to defend a C Johnson? there simply is no evidence to support your claim.

When I stated that I was looking at it from a projection standpoint. As was stated in a previous thread, it takes years for corners to develop in this system. As good of a year that Lewis had... who's to say that he and Allen (who are coming into their prime in the next few years) aren't able to play as well as Ike? And when we talk about Ike Taylor... we're taking about a guy who is 34 years old, and coming off a season ending injury. Who's to say that he's going to be able to play as his full potential this year?

At some point we have to sacrifice a little for the team... and if letting Ike walk would mean keeping young prospects who are capable of filling the void... and freeing up money to bring in quality FA's such as A. Bradshaw (to help strengthen other positions), then I'm all for it.

Mister Pittsburgh
04-16-2013, 08:08 PM
Ike has. First Bengals game w Ike, Green was 4/38 yds, second game when Ike was out 10/116 yds. And this isn't an isolated game. Ike shuts the other guy out, period. Its one side of the field the Steelers dont have to worry about.

Point is, most of you are waaaay undervaluing Ike's abilities.

I'm not undervaluing Ike. BUT, HE IS OLD FOR A CB!

feltdizz
04-16-2013, 08:30 PM
Ike has. First Bengals game w Ike, Green was 4/38 yds, second game when Ike was out 10/116 yds. And this isn't an isolated game. Ike shuts the other guy out, period. Its one side of the field the Steelers dont have to worry about.

Point is, most of you are waaaay undervaluing Ike's abilities.

What? Ike was exposed early on last year... he was a PI machine and Tennessee picked on him all night. Its funny that you bring up the
Bengal game. We went dime the whole game and helped out Ike all night....

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/1380273-breaking-down-how-the-steelers-defense-shut-down-andy-dalton-bengals

Here is a nice breakdown of the help Ike received and they have a great photo of Ike being beat for a sure TD but guess who broke up the pass in the endzone? Lewis.

Ike WAS good... now he is just a decent DB who can run but still has a hard time seeing the ball. At 34 it was a bad idea to keep him over Lewis.

NorthCoast
04-16-2013, 09:00 PM
I guess there will be one or two board members that will keep us posted all season long on Ike vs Lewis stats. Should make for some great board banter.... and a lot of I told you so's, one way or the other.

feltdizz
04-17-2013, 09:42 AM
I guess there will be one or two board members that will keep us posted all season long on Ike vs Lewis stats. Should make for some great board banter.... and a lot of I told you so's, one way or the other.

Where did Lewis sign? LOL...

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
04-17-2013, 10:08 AM
Where did Lewis sign? LOL...

I believe that he is still a FA because we haven't heard a thing about him all off-season. ;)

birtikidis
04-25-2013, 08:54 AM
I like Ike and all, but I just can't forget how he single-handedly let Tebow beat us at a time we coulda been a contenduh. Now maybe that's not how it happened, but it's how I remember it, so if anyone can set me straight otherwise, I'd appreciate it!
Had we won that game we would have only made it to the next before losing. Way too many injuries in that game. Kiesel, Hamton and Starks (if memory serves me right) all tore something -one groin and two ACL's...

feltdizz
04-25-2013, 09:33 AM
Had we won that game we would have only made it to the next before losing. Way too many injuries in that game. Kiesel, Hamton and Starks (if memory serves me right) all tore something -one groin and two ACL's...

that's a poor excuse to make the Denver game sting less...

ikestops85
04-25-2013, 12:44 PM
that's a poor excuse to make the Denver game sting less...

Not really ... I remember feeling somewhat of a relief that we weren't having to go into New England and have them hand us our arse again. We were decimated and probably wouldn't have beaten a college team the next week. As bad as I didn't want us to lose that game I'd rather lose to the Broncos than the *'s.

Okay, maybe you're right, I'm just using it as an excuse to make myself feel better .... but that's what it's all about, right? ;)

Ernie
01-12-2014, 10:46 AM
I did a little research and was able to pull this thread back up from the spring 2013... very interesting to see how this has unfolded... with Ike's play falling off...and Lewis emerging as a solid corner with another team..

My username then was "Big Ern McCracken" by the way... in case you were wondering what my opinion was back then. :D

Ernie
01-12-2014, 10:49 AM
i guess there will be one or two board members that will keep us posted all season long on ike vs lewis stats. Should make for some great board banter.... And a lot of i told you so's, one way or the other.

.................. lol :D

steelz09
01-12-2014, 11:02 AM
I did a little research and was able to pull this thread back up from the spring 2013... very interesting to see how this has unfolded... with Ike's play falling off...and Lewis emerging as a solid corner with another team..

My username then was "Big Ern McCracken" by the way... in case you were wondering what my opinion was back then. :D

Good one! Clearly my opinion on Ike and Lewis hasn't changed since this thread.

Ernie
01-12-2014, 11:06 AM
Yea... I read your posts steelz. Right on the money my man.

feltdizz
01-12-2014, 11:29 AM
I'm still frustrated over Lewis... I know people said he was homesick but usually people are homesick when they arent feeling the love in a new city.

I think the reason it still stings is because its obvious he has talent... big time talent. I'm pretty sure we would have seen his talent earlier if we didnt bench him in the preseason.

Steelhere10
01-12-2014, 11:34 AM
I wonder who made the call to keep Ike over Lewis
Tomlin
Colbert
LeBeau
Lake
My guess is LeBeau with his love for veterans, whoever made it what a bad decision. And it's more about the bad play of Ike, age and financial rather than the play of Lewis. Hopefully we want let Worilds walk over Woodley.

feltdizz
01-12-2014, 11:53 AM
I wonder who made the decision to bench Lewis after he lost his cool in a preseason game. I repeat...PRESEASON. Thanks Tomlib..lol.

As far as depth chart and such... I blame FO, Lebeau, Tomlin. I dont blame Lake at all and Lewis credited Lake with helping his development.

Its a shame that the Saints called Lewis and said he was their #1 FA. No need for new suit (he was going to buy one) just show up because they were sold already. I wish we were sold on him instead of some of our older vets.

Maybe Lewis walks regardless but an offer on our end would show that WE valued his services.

Shoe
01-12-2014, 12:11 PM
Or, let me correct that. Lewis is clearly the better player at this point. But the FO had to make a tough choice because of the cap-strapped nature. It is similar to this year's situation, where they have a young, ascending player (Worilds), and a "older", expensive veteran (Woodley). The question, is whether they stick to their guns (do the same thing), or change course (sign the young guy).

I think they should stick to their guns.

Ernie
01-12-2014, 01:51 PM
Or, let me correct that. Lewis is clearly the better player at this point. But the FO had to make a tough choice because of the cap-strapped nature. It is similar to this year's situation, where they have a young, ascending player (Worilds), and a "older", expensive veteran (Woodley). The question, is whether they stick to their guns (do the same thing), or change course (sign the young guy).

I think they should stick to their guns.


I wish I could agree with you shoe. I think the "Sticking to guns theory" is part of the problem. Woodley got his fat contract and hasn't lived up to it. Worilds "An ascending player" as you put it.. is younger, and deserving of a shot.

We are going to have to make some aggressive moves in order to get back where we need to be...with some luck undoubtedly..and I'm afraid the "Same old" is going to give us just that... 8 and 8's into the forseeable future.

phillyesq
01-12-2014, 01:54 PM
I'm still frustrated over Lewis... I know people said he was homesick but usually people are homesick when they arent feeling the love in a new city.

I think the reason it still stings is because its obvious he has talent... big time talent. I'm pretty sure we would have seen his talent earlier if we didnt bench him in the preseason.

When is anybody going to put the accountability for that on Lewis? He got his opportunity, and instead of taking advantage of it, he blew it and threw a temper tantrum. So the Steelers put Lewis, who had showed nothing to that point, back on the bench. He turned out better than anybody thought he would, but I still think that was the right decision.

Ernie
01-12-2014, 02:03 PM
I don't think he turned out better than anybody thought he would... that's why you see some upset members posting in these forums.. what I do see is a lot of folks saying "I told you so"... and are able to back it up with posts that we made at this time last year..

feltdizz
01-12-2014, 02:58 PM
When is anybody going to put the accountability for that on Lewis? He got his opportunity, and instead of taking advantage of it, he blew it and threw a temper tantrum. So the Steelers put Lewis, who had showed nothing to that point, back on the bench. He turned out better than anybody thought he would, but I still think that was the right decision.

He threw a temper tantrum... its football, it happens.

There are probably a thousand snaps in a season.

Shoe
01-12-2014, 03:32 PM
I wish I could agree with you shoe. I think the "Sticking to guns theory" is part of the problem. Woodley got his fat contract and hasn't lived up to it. Worilds "An ascending player" as you put it.. is younger, and deserving of a shot.

We are going to have to make some aggressive moves in order to get back where we need to be...with some luck undoubtedly..and I'm afraid the "Same old" is going to give us just that... 8 and 8's into the forseeable future.

Just to be clear: If we are just talking about player vs. player, I'd take Worilds over fatboy easily. The problem is, the cost associated. Assuming we can convince fatboy to take a paycut, it would work out pretty well, cap number wise.

Say Woodley is making $10m this year. We ask him to cut to $6.5m. We let Worilds walk, draft a young replacement (maybe a $2m or $3m), and move forward. Go the other route now. We sign Worilds. Let's say we get off cheap, at $8.5m a year. We eat a portion of Woodley's contract, cutting him outright. Maybe that is $5m.

These numbers are all hypothetical (I don't know the particulars), but in the first scenario, we have tied under $10 to that position. In the other scenario, we have approaching $15m, and we are stsill in a similar situation (relying on an injury-prone guy... both Woodley and Worilds can't stay healthy). In the former scenario, at least we would have a young replacement waiting in the wings.

The other knock on this whole scenario, is that spending a high pick on another OLB takes away that choice that could be used at another position.

BURGH86STEEL
01-12-2014, 03:39 PM
The Steelers knew that Lewis wanted to test the free agent market. It's feasible that they knew that Lewis wanted to go home to play for New Orleans received a fair deal.

There was no way the Steelers were going to be able to compete with the money that other teams offered Lewis on the FA market. There was also no way the Steelers were going to be able to compete with Lewis' desire to go home and play for his home town team.

thor75
01-12-2014, 03:49 PM
Financially the best case scenario would let Woirlds go, try to get Woodley to take a pay cut and draft someone this May. The money on Woodley is already spent, and as much as I hate to say we need to get some return on that next year. Personally I would like to cut Woodley outright and sign Woirlds to a new contract with games played clauses since everyone seems to think injuries are a concern.

Victor Butler only signed a 2yr 3million contract last year with the Saints after his whirlwind tour of the nfl last offseason. I think Woirlds can get a little more than that, but other teams will research his injury history also. Woirlds could be in that 2 yr 4-5 million range?? Might still be an option. Not well versed enough to know that 8.5 million is realistic. I know that's just your example.

Ernie
01-12-2014, 04:14 PM
Just to be clear: If we are just talking about player vs. player, I'd take Worilds over fatboy easily. The problem is, the cost associated. Assuming we can convince fatboy to take a paycut, it would work out pretty well, cap number wise.

Say Woodley is making $10m this year. We ask him to cut to $6.5m. We let Worilds walk, draft a young replacement (maybe a $2m or $3m), and move forward. Go the other route now. We sign Worilds. Let's say we get off cheap, at $8.5m a year. We eat a portion of Woodley's contract, cutting him outright. Maybe that is $5m.

These numbers are all hypothetical (I don't know the particulars), but in the first scenario, we have tied under $10 to that position. In the other scenario, we have approaching $15m, and we are stsill in a similar situation (relying on an injury-prone guy... both Woodley and Worilds can't stay healthy). In the former scenario, at least we would have a young replacement waiting in the wings.

The other knock on this whole scenario, is that spending a high pick on another OLB takes away that choice that could be used at another position.

makes sense. Sucks that we are in that situation though. Seems we are faced with that scenario quite a bit.

squidkid
01-12-2014, 05:10 PM
The Steelers knew that Lewis wanted to test the free agent market. It's feasible that they knew that Lewis wanted to go home to play for New Orleans received a fair deal.

There was no way the Steelers were going to be able to compete with the money that other teams offered Lewis on the FA market. There was also no way the Steelers were going to be able to compete with Lewis' desire to go home and play for his home town team.


Exactly.
Why people think the steelers dropped the ball on this one is beyond me.
lets just say the steelers way over paid lewis to make him stay. now you have a guy that is only here because of the money, more than likely wont play hard and it kills us capwise

Steelhere10
01-12-2014, 05:15 PM
The reason are wrong, only half the money is spent and if you are Mr. Rooney do you want to spend the other half on a player who doesn't even commit to his weight and often injured. We are talking physical money, if I'm the Rooneys physical wasted money is worse than the cap.

Ernie
01-12-2014, 05:19 PM
Not sure why you guys are acting like Lewis wouldn't have put forth 100% effort had he stayed.
and the statement was made that he wanted to "Test the market". Is he the first to do that? If what you are saying is true then we should never sign players to a 2nd contract.

squidkid
01-12-2014, 05:22 PM
Financially the best case scenario would let Woirlds go, try to get Woodley to take a pay cut and draft someone this May. The money on Woodley is already spent, and as much as I hate to say we need to get some return on that next year. Personally I would like to cut Woodley outright and sign Woirlds to a new contract with games played clauses since everyone seems to think injuries are a concern.

Victor Butler only signed a 2yr 3million contract last year with the Saints after his whirlwind tour of the nfl last offseason. I think Woirlds can get a little more than that, but other teams will research his injury history also. Woirlds could be in that 2 yr 4-5 million range?? Might still be an option. Not well versed enough to know that 8.5 million is realistic. I know that's just your example.

i willing to bet worilds gets more than 1.5 to 2.5 per year and it will be longer than a 2 year deal.

Ernie
01-12-2014, 05:25 PM
i willing to bet worilds gets more than 1.5 to 2.5 per year and it will be longer than a 2 year deal.

I agree with you there squid... he's ranked too high in the FA market for OLB's going into the offseason... We won't be able to afford him most likely

squidkid
01-12-2014, 05:32 PM
I agree with you there squid... he's ranked too high in the FA market for OLB's going into the offseason... We won't be able to afford him most likely
cut ties with woodley as a june 1st cut and sign worilds to a 3-5 million per year deal.
eating woodleys cap hit would suck, but theres no sense paying the guy another 8 million next year when he has proven to be lazy, fat and soft.

Ernie
01-12-2014, 05:34 PM
cut ties with woodley as a june 1st cut and sign worilds to a 3-5 million per year deal.
eating woodleys cap hit would suck, but theres no sense paying the guy another 8 million next year when he has proven to be lazy, fat and soft.

agreed. Let's just hope Worilds is around come june 1st to sign.

squidkid
01-12-2014, 05:38 PM
agreed. Let's just hope Worilds is around come june 1st to sign.

im sure the steelers will have him wrapped up before releasing woodley

thor75
01-12-2014, 05:54 PM
i willing to bet worilds gets more than 1.5 to 2.5 per year and it will be longer than a 2 year deal.

Could be, like I said, I'm no expert in the off season signings. But he's only had one productive year and a supposed injury history to boot (I myself am on the fence with that sentiment). I think he tops out at 2.5-3.5/yr imo.

Shoe
01-12-2014, 06:00 PM
Could be, like I said, I'm no expert in the off season signings. But he's only had one productive year and a supposed injury history to boot (I myself am on the fence with that sentiment). I think he tops out at 2.5-3.5/yr imo.

Well, consider that the Steelers were willing to pay an old, washed-up James Harrison $4-5 million to play this year. You would think that they would value Worilds at least that... and if they're willing to value him at that, you would think that others value him at that and probably more.

thor75
01-12-2014, 06:02 PM
Well, consider that the Steelers were willing to pay an old, washed-up James Harrison $4-5 million to play this year. You would think that they would value Worilds at least that... and if they're willing to value him at that, you would think that others value him at that and probably more.

it would be interesting to see the 3-4 teams and their needs at OLB--see what the market dictates.

Shoe
01-12-2014, 06:18 PM
It's really too bad that Chris Carter has turned out to be such a bum.

thor75
01-12-2014, 06:22 PM
It's really too bad that Chris Carter has turned out to be such a bum.

exactly... it seemed we always had an apprentice ready to take over.

Rod Polamalu
01-12-2014, 09:29 PM
Are we really still pining for Keenan Lewis people ? He's balling to a degree because he is now motivated by playing for the Saints,... with hopes of being hero for his hometown unit.

Let's not forget that he was very average at Oregon State and was a 'flyer' pick. And if he had performed up to not only his standard,... but that of our organization,...he would still be here.

Then again,....perhaps he did not have the special bond with Tomlin that Timmons, and Gay do ? lol

thor75
01-12-2014, 09:35 PM
Are we really still pining for Keenan Lewis people ? He's balling to a degree because he is now motivated by playing for the Saints,... with hopes of being hero for his hometown unit.

Let's not forget that he was very average at Oregon State and was a 'flyer' pick. And if he had performed up to not only his standard,... but that of our organization,...he would still be here.

Then again,....perhaps he did not have the special bond with Tomlin that Timmons, and Gay do ? lol

No no one gives a sh*t about Lewis. We are making the comparison to the Woirlds/Woodley situation and how one player seems ready to take over for the established guy, but the established guy has the big contract. And that will affect us financially on this cap starved team.

and more specifically how will the FO handle this situation. there are varying opinions on how they handled the Taylor/Lewis situation.

Rod Polamalu
01-12-2014, 09:58 PM
No no one gives a sh*t about Lewis. We are making the comparison to the Woirlds/Woodley situation and how one player seems ready to take over for the established guy, but the established guy has the big contract. And that will affect us financially on this cap starved team.

and more specifically how will the FO handle this situation. there are varying opinions on how they handled the Taylor/Lewis situation.

And with that said,...Woodley was the attempt to Draft a physically prototypical Steeler tweener outside backer like Joey or Gildon after stepping on their ducks with the Tampa 2 Colts reach of Timmons in the first to placate Tomlin. Seemed like the safety valve pick,..but turns out not so much because of his (Woodley's) "Man i shooo just love being relevant as well as cupcakes and Champagne" shenanigans. lol

Is Worilds really the solution ? And if not,... what is really up for any debate ?

thor75
01-12-2014, 10:09 PM
And with that said,...Woodley was the attempt to Draft a physically prototypical Steeler tweener outside backer like Joey or Gildon after stepping on their ducks with the Tampa 2 Colts reach of Timmons in the first to placate Tomlin. Seemed like the safety valve pick,..but turns out not so much because of his (Woodley's) "Man i shooo just love being relevant as well as cupcakes and Champagne" shenanigans. lol

Is Worilds really the solution ? And if not,... what is really up for any debate ?

I really am not sure what you are saying here. But irregardless, the debate would be whether to cut ties with Woodley with his guaranteed money vs. going with Woirlds and his unpredictable free agency market.

Slapstick
01-13-2014, 10:24 AM
Timmons wasn't a reach...

fezziwig
01-13-2014, 10:45 AM
I'm not sure who was to blame but there's no way Ike would have given Thomas the inside if he had no help. I think it was Mundy that should have been helping him.

Ike gets beat by his lack of ball awareness sometimes, but he usually doesn't get beat because of his lack of coverage. Ike gives cushions and makes tackles, but he doesn't give a guy 80 yards worth of cushion.

I blame Lebeau for a lack of game plan in that game. And Ben for a sporadic offense. I blame that loss on Lebeau. Lebeau acted as if Tebow had no arms and only legs. A no talented quarterback could have made that pass when you send receivers out with no one to defend them. Oh yeah, that's what happened.

fezziwig
01-13-2014, 10:54 AM
I wonder who made the decision to bench Lewis after he lost his cool in a preseason game. I repeat...PRESEASON. Thanks Tomlib..lol.

As far as depth chart and such... I blame FO, Lebeau, Tomlin. I dont blame Lake at all and Lewis credited Lake with helping his development.

Its a shame that the Saints called Lewis and said he was their #1 FA. No need for new suit (he was going to buy one) just show up because they were sold already. I wish we were sold on him instead of some of our older vets.

Maybe Lewis walks regardless but an offer on our end would show that WE valued his services. I agree. Sometimes I feel our Steelers area farm team. Discover them, teach them for a few years, invest money into them and teach them everything they need to know and then allow them to leave. I thought for sure they were grooming Lewis for a Steelers future.

papillon
01-14-2014, 12:59 PM
I agree. Sometimes I feel our Steelers area farm team. Discover them, teach them for a few years, invest money into them and teach them everything they need to know and then allow them to leave. I thought for sure they were grooming Lewis for a Steelers future.

Keenan Lewis wanted to go home to Louisiana and only an exorbitant amount of money was going to stop him from doing that. He took less than the Vikings offered him to play for the Saints. The Steelers weren't keeping Lewis or, if they did, we'd all be bemoaning the huge contract that the Steelers gave him to stay. It just wasn't in the cards for Lewis and the Steelers.

Pappy

Sugar
01-14-2014, 01:42 PM
Keenan Lewis wanted to go home to Louisiana and only an exorbitant amount of money was going to stop him from doing that. He took less than the Vikings offered him to play for the Saints. The Steelers weren't keeping Lewis or, if they did, we'd all be bemoaning the huge contract that the Steelers gave him to stay. It just wasn't in the cards for Lewis and the Steelers.

Pappy

Pap, I don't know how many times this has been said. I don't know if some posters just don't get it or if they just want to ramble for page after page about a non-issue?

grotonsteel
01-14-2014, 01:46 PM
I agree. Sometimes I feel our Steelers area farm team. Discover them, teach them for a few years, invest money into them and teach them everything they need to know and then allow them to leave. I thought for sure they were grooming Lewis for a Steelers future.

Steelers have missed lot of their draft picks lately and they are unable to retain players who show talent. Defensive players are developed slowly because they are still trying to grasp Leabeau's Defensive play book.


For a team which is built on draft it is a receipe for disaster.

fezziwig
01-14-2014, 01:55 PM
Pap, I don't know how many times this has been said. I don't know if some posters just don't get it or if they just want to ramble for page after page about a non-issue?
I don't believe I'm rambling with my questions or comments. I asked a question and pap answered it. I do have an additional question for pap, if you don't mind ?

fezziwig
01-14-2014, 01:58 PM
Keenan Lewis wanted to go home to Louisiana and only an exorbitant amount of money was going to stop him from doing that. He took less than the Vikings offered him to play for the Saints. The Steelers weren't keeping Lewis or, if they did, we'd all be bemoaning the huge contract that the Steelers gave him to stay. It just wasn't in the cards for Lewis and the Steelers.

Pappy pap, was he always this way with what he wanted when he arrived to the Steelers or just something closer to his last season ? I ask this because if that was his wishes/attitude you would think the Steelers would have not wasted in my opinion a roster spot for this guy. Sign or develop another guy that wants to be a Steeler and remain a Steeler.

feltdizz
01-14-2014, 02:16 PM
Keenan Lewis wanted to go home to Louisiana and only an exorbitant amount of money was going to stop him from doing that. He took less than the Vikings offered him to play for the Saints. The Steelers weren't keeping Lewis or, if they did, we'd all be bemoaning the huge contract that the Steelers gave him to stay. It just wasn't in the cards for Lewis and the Steelers.

Pappy

Does Keenan want to go home if he see's the field a year earlier? There is no way anyone can tell me this kid didn't have "it" and wouldn't have balled out if given a fair shot.

Slapstick
01-14-2014, 03:20 PM
1) Keenan told teams at the draft that he wanted to be a Saint...

2) He was given a fair shot...he just didn't take advantage before his fourth year...

feltdizz
01-14-2014, 03:24 PM
1) Keenan told teams at the draft that he wanted to be a Saint...

2) He was given a fair shot...he just didn't take advantage before his fourth year...

I believe he took advantage of his shot and was rewarded with a 20 million dollar contract.

The problem is WE didn't take advantage of his 4 years to give US the best chance of seeing his shots.

BradshawsHairdresser
01-14-2014, 03:48 PM
Keenan Lewis wanted to go home to Louisiana and only an exorbitant amount of money was going to stop him from doing that. He took less than the Vikings offered him to play for the Saints. Are you sure about that? I know that Mike Wallace turned down an offer from the Vikings, but I can find no report of Keenan Lewis turning down any offer from the Vikings to sign with the Saints. But even if he did, does that mean he would have dismissed a reasonable offer from the Steelers? Some of you keep saying that Lewis was so determined to go home to New Orleans that he gave the Saints a big discount...but I can find nothing to back that up, other than some message board speculation. The fact is, the Steelers didn't make any offer for Lewis, and he expressed surprise and disappointment about that. They didn't make an offer...they didn't even express interest in making an offer, IIRC. They DID make overtures to such players as Elvis Dumervil and Dwight Freeney, even though they had to have known they could not possibly outbid the other teams that wanted them. Yet not a peep toward Keenan. I can only conclude (as I think Lewis did) that the Steelers didn't really want him. F.O.'s biggest blunder of the year.

BradshawsHairdresser
01-14-2014, 04:03 PM
1) Keenan told teams at the draft that he wanted to be a Saint...




Never heard that before, but if true, could it be because he already knew the Steelers weren't interested?

Ernie
01-14-2014, 04:45 PM
Are you sure about that? I know that Mike Wallace turned down an offer from the Vikings, but I can find no report of Keenan Lewis turning down any offer from the Vikings to sign with the Saints. But even if he did, does that mean he would have dismissed a reasonable offer from the Steelers? Some of you keep saying that Lewis was so determined to go home to New Orleans that he gave the Saints a big discount...but I can find nothing to back that up, other than some message board speculation. The fact is, the Steelers didn't make any offer for Lewis, and he expressed surprise and disappointment about that. They didn't make an offer...they didn't even express interest in making an offer, IIRC. They DID make overtures to such players as Elvis Dumervil and Dwight Freeney, even though they had to have known they could not possibly outbid the other teams that wanted them. Yet not a peep toward Keenan. I can only conclude (as I think Lewis did) that the Steelers didn't really want him. F.O.'s biggest blunder of the year.

if he was surprised/disappointed by the lack of an offer from the steelers, that tells me that he may not have been dead set on leaving...which means we could have possibly kept him and had been set at corner well into the future.
Like you said, the biggest blunder of the year. Excellent post

feltdizz
01-14-2014, 06:41 PM
Never heard that before, but if true, could it be because he already knew the Steelers weren't interested?

That doesnt make any sense at all... this is said to dull the sting. There is no way Keenan turns down a deal if we gave him a fair shot and made an offer a year earlier. I'm 100% sure we would have seen enough to realize he had star potential.

Dwyer came in fat... and we still gave him meaningful touches and every chance possible to make an impression.

feltdizz
01-14-2014, 06:56 PM
I couldnt find anything about the Vikings making an offer.

Slapstick
01-14-2014, 08:14 PM
Quotes from Keenan Lewis...

About free agency:


"Those guys were trying to offer more money, but I had it set in my mind the whole time if the Saints offered me I was going to come home. I had to get it done," Lewis said. "I looked at it like I'm home. I'm from Algiers. I went to O.P. Walker. A lot of guys don't really have that opportunity to play for their hometown team. Then when I had the opportunity to sit down with Sean Payton, Mickey Loomis, Rob Ryan and my position coach, (Wesley) McGriff, they really made me feel at home. And that's something I had in Pittsburgh.

"When I first walked in there I felt like I was at home. I had opportunities to go to teams that offered me a lot more money. But everybody can't say that they had the opportunity to play in their back yard. Even when I was in Pittsburgh I would go back and watch four or five Saints games just to get acquainted with what they were doing."

On the draft:


"I almost didn't get drafted because I told all the teams my wish was to play for the Saints," he said. "I let that be known when I was coming out of college at the Senior Bowl."

squidkid
01-14-2014, 08:26 PM
Are you sure about that? I know that Mike Wallace turned down an offer from the Vikings, but I can find no report of Keenan Lewis turning down any offer from the Vikings to sign with the Saints. But even if he did, does that mean he would have dismissed a reasonable offer from the Steelers? Some of you keep saying that Lewis was so determined to go home to New Orleans that he gave the Saints a big discount...but I can find nothing to back that up, other than some message board speculation. The fact is, the Steelers didn't make any offer for Lewis, and he expressed surprise and disappointment about that. They didn't make an offer...they didn't even express interest in making an offer, IIRC. They DID make overtures to such players as Elvis Dumervil and Dwight Freeney, even though they had to have known they could not possibly outbid the other teams that wanted them. Yet not a peep toward Keenan. I can only conclude (as I think Lewis did) that the Steelers didn't really want him. F.O.'s biggest blunder of the year.


not to be dink and a 'got a link' guy, but do you have a link that has lewis stating that he was surprised and disappointed that no offer was made?

fwiw, during the n.o. playoff game, the announcers commented on lewis wanting to come home to play.

squidkid
01-14-2014, 08:31 PM
wow, sure looks likie ik waas 100% correct on the lewis situation where someone was 100% wroing

BradshawsHairdresser
01-14-2014, 08:57 PM
"Those guys were trying to offer more money, but I had it set in my mind the whole time if the Saints offered me I was going to come home. I had to get it done," Lewis said. "I looked at it like I'm home. I'm from Algiers. I went to O.P. Walker. A lot of guys don't really have that opportunity to play for their hometown team. Then when I had the opportunity to sit down with Sean Payton, Mickey Loomis, Rob Ryan and my position coach, (Wesley) McGriff, they really made me feel at home. And that's something I had in Pittsburgh."

"When I first walked in there I felt like I was at home. I had opportunities to go to teams that offered me a lot more money. But everybody can't say that they had the opportunity to play in their back yard. Even when I was in Pittsburgh I would go back and watch four or five Saints games just to get acquainted with what they were doing."



You didn't source the article, but I'll assume you found it at http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2013/03/new_orleans_saints_have_reache_1.html. I find it interesting that you don't include what comes before that particular quote. If you do, you see that when Lewis was speaking about the teams that he passed up in order to sign with the Saints, he was talking about the Chargers, Raiders, Titans and Eagles (all of whom were pursuing him)--not the Steelers. He himself tweeted that the Steelers never made him an offer.


"I almost didn't get drafted because I told all the teams my wish was to play for the Saints," he said. "I let that be known when I was coming out of college at the Senior Bowl."

I found that quote in the above referenced article; I had never read it before. Still, does it absolutely mean there's no way Lewis could have been swayed by an offer from the Steelers? And even if not, why would the Steelers not at least let him know they were interested? Again, they were able to send feelers to Dumervil and Freeney, when they knew they had a snowball's chance in Hadestown of getting either of those guys signed...So even if it is a longshot, if you really want to retain the guy, don't you at least let him know that?

squidkid
01-14-2014, 09:14 PM
You didn't source the article, but I'll assume you found it at http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2013/03/new_orleans_saints_have_reache_1.html. I find it interesting that you don't include what comes before that particular quote. If you do, you see that when Lewis was speaking about the teams that he passed up in order to sign with the Saints, he was talking about the Chargers, Raiders, Titans and Eagles (all of whom were pursuing him)--not the Steelers. He himself tweeted that the Steelers never made him an offer.



I found that quote in the above referenced article; I had never read it before. Still, does it absolutely mean there's no way Lewis could have been swayed by an offer from the Steelers? And even if not, why would the Steelers not at least let him know they were interested? Again, they were able to send feelers to Dumervil and Freeney, when they knew they had a snowball's chance in Hadestown of getting either of those guys signed...So even if it is a longshot, if you really want to retain the guy, don't you at least let him know that?


knowing this, it makes tomlin picking lewis one of his dumbest selections to date. knowing the guy would jump ship as soon as possible and you draft him anyway?
i would almost certainly bet the steelers sent out a feeler to lewis' agent about what dollar amount it would take for him to stay. the answer was either way more than they could afford or the answer was 'hes going home'
just because the steelers didnt make it public, doesnt mean it didnt happen

DukieBoy
01-14-2014, 09:45 PM
My frustration with the Lewis matter is the Steelers developing his talent and then getting one good year out of him before losing him to FA. Hope that is not Worilds' pathway.

flippy
01-14-2014, 09:59 PM
My frustration with the Lewis matter is the Steelers developing his talent and then getting one good year out of him before losing him to FA. Hope that is not Worilds' pathway.

But wasnt it Lake that helped turn him into a baller? Lake was only here for Lewis' last season with us.

NorthCoast
01-14-2014, 10:40 PM
That doesnt make any sense at all... this is said to dull the sting. There is no way Keenan turns down a deal if we gave him a fair shot and made an offer a year earlier. I'm 100% sure we would have seen enough to realize he had star potential.

Dwyer came in fat... and we still gave him meaningful touches and every chance possible to make an impression.


Try again. It's not always about the money. KEENAN LEWIS WANTED TO PLAY IN NEW ORLEANS and said so BEFORE THE DRAFT (his own words). I know. Shocking! How can any player NOT want to play for the Steelers.?!

Can we please put this issue to bed after reading the following?:


By TED LEWIS
Advocate sportswriter
June 12, 2013
METAIRIE — San Diego, Oakland, Tennessee, Philadelphia and Atlanta — especially Atlanta — never had a chance.
Not when free agent cornerback Keenan Lewis was being peppered with texts from his mother, Muriel, to “Sign! Sign! Sign!” while he was at Saints headquarters. The O. Perry Walker graduate was there to negotiate what ended up being a five-year, $26.3 million contract — $10 million of it guaranteed with a $6 million signing bonus — negating any need to visit other would-be suitors.
But Muriel’s urgency was not just because the Saints were offering a plum deal, one that enabled her son to surprise her with a house for Mother’s Day. And it wasn’t just because the Lewis family is full of diehard Saints fans who couldn’t bear to see Keenan, who spent the first four years of his career with Pittsburgh, playing for anyone but his hometown team.
The real reason was that Kalise Genie Lewis — Keenan and wife Dannel’s 2-year-old daughter — would be close enough for Maw-Maw to see her whenever she wants.
“Yeah, she put the pressure on me,” Keenan recalled after the Saints’ Thursday organized team activity. “But I’ve always wanted to play for the Saints, too. Before I was drafted, I said some things about it which were disrespectful to other teams. But that’s the way I felt then, and I still do.”
Lewis’ dream of one day being a Saint also was the goal of the Rev. Joseph Lewis, Keenan’s grandfather. He died in 2004, the year Keenan signed with Oregon State.
“When Keenan was little, his grandfather would tell him, ‘If you play as hard as you can, one day you can play for the Saints,’ ” Muriel said. “He would have so much joy about this.”
Keenan agreed.
“He was the biggest Saints fan in the world,” he said. “Since he died, I’ve dedicated every game I played to him. I sure will now.”
Playing for your hometown team can have its pitfalls. Perhaps that’s why there’s surprisingly little of it in the NFL.
Relatives and friends — some you’ve forgotten or never knew in the first place — come out of the woodwork to request tickets, ask for a “loan” or offer a can’t-lose business deal.
“My rookie year, everybody assumed I just got all the tickets I wanted for free,” said Tyrone Hughes, a St. Augustine grad who was the Saints’ fifth-round pick in 1993 and spent four years with the team. “At the end of the season, my mom saw how much they’d charged me and told me, from then on, if somebody wanted something, have them call her. Next year rolled around, and when people would call her and she’d tell them the price, they’d usually say, ‘Let me get back to you’ — and that was the end of it.”
And sometimes reuniting with old friends can lead to more than money problems.
“I tell Keenan all the time that things have changed a lot since he went to Oregon State,” said Muriel, a seventh-grade teacher at Martin Behrman Charter School in Algiers. “A lot of his friends have taken different directions and didn’t make the right choices like Keenan did.”
Lewis following the wrong path seems unlikely. Married to a local girl — Dannel is the daughter of the late Lionel Delpit, also known as Big Chief Black Feather, and the cousin of former OPW teammate Kendrick Lewis (no relation), now a safety with the Kansas City Chiefs — Lewis benefits from being part of a close-knit family. More than that, he wants to use his voice and foundation to “help people to keep from getting caught up in the foolishness” that has inflicted his old West Bank neighborhood.



Plus, Lewis is a five-year veteran, not someone fresh out of college with money in his pocket for the first time. He’s also coming from perhaps the league’s most respected organization in Pittsburgh, where he was mentored by fellow New Orleanians Mike Wallace (an OPW teammate now with Miami), Ike Taylor and Ryan Clark, plus veterans such as Troy Polamalu and Hines Ward.
“Those guys showed me how you take care of your business on and off the field,” Lewis said. “They were great leaders, just like we’ve got here.”
But there still will be expectations to deal with. Not only did the Saints make Lewis their No. 1 target in free agency, they’re counting on him to shore up a secondary that ranked 31st in the league last year, contributing to the worst statistical defense in NFL history.
The Saints look on Lewis as their No. 1 cover corner, probably supplanting former first-round pick Patrick Robinson as a starter. All this for a player who has had only one season in that role under his belt.
Quarterback Bobby Hebert, who prepped at South Lafourche and signed with the Saints in 1985, said being in a spotlight position puts a local player under extreme pressure.
“You can be the quarterback and go to Seattle and (stink) but still come back home,” he said. “But when you’re from here, you’re either the hero or the goat. Remember that guy the Saints signed a few years ago, (cornerback) Jason David, who was so bad? Nobody cared when he left. For Keenan, that’s the worst-case scenario, and it’s not going to happen. I think he’s going to embrace the added pressure.”
He already has.
“Every game won’t have the outcome we hope it will,” he said. “But this is a Super Bowl-caliber team, and I’m going to give it 100 percent to help us get there.”
Lewis’ signing wasn’t just a hometown thing. He said he was heavily influenced by the presence of new defensive coordinator Rob Ryan, whom he considers a guru of the 3-4 the caliber of longtime Steelers assistant Dick LeBeau.
“He’s one of the best out there,” Lewis said. “It’s not just the tactical side but the energy he brings to every drill. He always has you up and ready. I’m proud to be working with him.”
But even if Ryan had been elsewhere, Lewis is where he has long wanted to be.
“It still feels a little weird,” he said. “But I’m adjusting to it.”
And so is Maw-Maw.
“They know I’ll baby-sit any time,” Muriel said. “It feels so good to get them back home.”

SteelBuckeye
01-15-2014, 01:38 AM
knowing this, it makes tomlin picking lewis one of his dumbest selections to date. knowing the guy would jump ship as soon as possible and you draft him anyway?
i would almost certainly bet the steelers sent out a feeler to lewis' agent about what dollar amount it would take for him to stay. the answer was either way more than they could afford or the answer was 'hes going home'
just because the steelers didnt make it public, doesnt mean it didnt happen

You do know that Tomlin is not the only one making these choices right? I mean Colbert and ARII have both said that they have say in the picks. I would also think that Tomlin has input on what FA to keep, but Colbert, ARII and even Kahn (capologist) have input too. But, you blame the pick, and the failure to keep him, solely on Tomlin. A squid has many tentacles ... some shorter than others it seems.

hawaiiansteel
01-15-2014, 03:10 AM
dave: Why didn't they re-sign Keenan Lewis last year? Was it a money issue, or did they underestimate his ability?

Ed Bouchette: I think a little bit of both

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2014/01/14/Ed-Bouchette-s-Steelers-chat-transcript-1-14-14/stories/2014011401560000000#ixzz2qReFTSQ1

Slapstick
01-15-2014, 09:21 AM
What we know:

1) Lewis has always wanted to play for the Saints.

2) The Steelers did not make him an offer.

3) Lewis turned down more lucrative contracts to play with the Saints.

Now, you can second guess the Steelers based upon what you think...that is the entire reason for the message board...

But, based upon what we know​, Lewis is where he always wanted to be and was willing to take less money in order to be there...

feltdizz
01-15-2014, 09:43 AM
You do know that Tomlin is not the only one making these choices right? I mean Colbert and ARII have both said that they have say in the picks. I would also think that Tomlin has input on what FA to keep, but Colbert, ARII and even Kahn (capologist) have input too. But, you blame the pick, and the failure to keep him, solely on Tomlin. A squid has many tentacles ... some shorter than others it seems.

Nah.. its all Tomlin all the time.

feltdizz
01-15-2014, 09:47 AM
What we know:

1) Lewis has always wanted to play for the Saints.

2) The Steelers did not make him an offer.

3) Lewis turned down more lucrative contracts to play with the Saints.

Now, you can second guess the Steelers based upon what you think...that is the entire reason for the message board...

But, based upon what we know​, Lewis is where he always wanted to be and was willing to take less money in order to be there...

Maybe I missed it but I didnt see anything that suggested he took less money. Regardless... we had a chance to make an offer and didn't. Maybe he says no but at least it shows we are interested. Without an offer it leaves the door open for Lewis to say "I was shocked they didn't even attempt to make an offer"

As far as his love for the Saints.. c'mon. Larry Fitzgerald said this:
I grew up a Vikings fan and I would be lying to you if I didn’t say I was still a Vikings fan. Growing up in Minnesota it’s second nature. I still pull for them when I’m not playing them. A lot of my closest friends in the NFL are Vikings. I’m close with (Everson) Griffen, Jared Allen, Phil (Loadholt), Adrian Peterson (http://bleacherreport.com/adrian-peterson), Kyle Rudolph. You pull for your friends.

Cam Newton said this: "I've always been a Falcons fan, and I'm still a Falcons fan except for those two times a year [when the Panthers play Atlanta."

Every player in the NFL has a favorite team they grew up cheering for but if a team drafts them and gives them a contract offer BEFORE their favorite team makes them a great offer they will take it.

We messed up, it happens but it's OKAY to admit we screwed the pooch with the FO in cap hell and thinking Allen was/is better than Lewis.

feltdizz
01-15-2014, 10:31 AM
I'm almost done beating this horse..lol

http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nfl/5336/keenan-lewis

They have a nice break down on Lewis' career and how he "played the game" perfectly to get a nice contract. He is quoted saying he "hopes" to remain a Steeler but he also stated he didn't want "nickel money".. he wanted "starter money"

He damn sure got it and maybe he laughs off our offer if it was nickel money but looking at his play last year he deserved starter money.


Lewis has reportedly had a "strong camp" and "impressed coaches" with his knowledge of the scheme. He'll start the season ahead of Cortez Allen, who slides in as the nickel back behind RCB Ike Taylor and Lewis.

This is part of the problem though ^^^^ in 2012 he finally impressed our coaches with his knowledge of our scheme which is easy to learn.
Ryan gets Lewis in NO and puts him in man and he shines... smh. This 2 to 3 year "knowledge of scheme" will continue and it's the reason we resign guys like McFadden and Gay.. and even if we go CB early in the draft the cycle will continue.

papillon
01-15-2014, 10:54 AM
pap, was he always this way with what he wanted when he arrived to the Steelers or just something closer to his last season ? I ask this because if that was his wishes/attitude you would think the Steelers would have not wasted in my opinion a roster spot for this guy. Sign or develop another guy that wants to be a Steeler and remain a Steeler.

Evidently, he has felt this way and also let teams know that NO was his ultimate destination even coming out of the senior bowl. I'm not sure why the Steelers drafted him knowing this, obviously, he's a talented CB, and I believe had he shown the level of play in the year prior to his last year with the Steelers they would have offered him a contract extension with a year to go on his contract rather than allowing him to hit free agency. Would that have changed his mind about NO? No way of knowing. However, security is a very attractive benefit for football players and had the Steelers made him a nice extension offer with reasonable guaranteed money he may not have been able to turn it down.

Water under the bridge at this point, the Steelers need to draft a CB this year, IMO.

Pappy

feltdizz
01-15-2014, 11:34 AM
Evidently, he has felt this way and also let teams know that NO was his ultimate destination even coming out of the senior bowl. I'm not sure why the Steelers drafted him knowing this, obviously, he's a talented CB, and I believe had he shown the level of play in the year prior to his last year with the Steelers they would have offered him a contract extension with a year to go on his contract rather than allowing him to hit free agency. Would that have changed his mind about NO? No way of knowing. However, security is a very attractive benefit for football players and had the Steelers made him a nice extension offer with reasonable guaranteed money he may not have been able to turn it down.

Water under the bridge at this point, the Steelers need to draft a CB this year, IMO.

Pappy

I think they drafted Lewis because he had talent and most coaches and FO know these players have favorite teams they dream of playing for one day. Our FO's job is to make sure we reward talent and retain the best players. If we offered him starter money and treated him like he was our #1 priority I'm sure the decision is much harder for Lewis or he doesn't take it at all. He didn't love the Saint's enough to sit out and try to walk onto their roster.

Like you said.. water under the bridge.

Slapstick
01-15-2014, 11:41 AM
Maybe I missed it but I didnt see anything that suggested he took less money.

He said it himself, right here:


"Those guys were trying to offer more money, but I had it set in my mind the whole time if the Saints offered me I was going to come home. I had to get it done," Lewis said.

Slapstick
01-15-2014, 11:44 AM
Again, what we know versus what we think...

squidkid
01-15-2014, 12:24 PM
You do know that Tomlin is not the only one making these choices right? I mean Colbert and ARII have both said that they have say in the picks. I would also think that Tomlin has input on what FA to keep, but Colbert, ARII and even Kahn (capologist) have input too. But, you blame the pick, and the failure to keep him, solely on Tomlin. A squid has many tentacles ... some shorter than others it seems.

for whatever reason, tomlin feels the need to let everyone know that he makes the picks, he does the hiring and he does the firing.
i can only assume his ego took a serious shot with the arians debacle and he thinks he can fool some people into believing he is calling all the shots.
seriously, why would someone have a presser to state that they were the ones that fired arians? c'mon man.
same with the draft picks. says he is responsible for them. why not say its a team effort? its not about accountability with tomlin, its his ego.
so if tomlin wants to tell me that he is the one responsible, then i'll play along and believe him.
i dont like tomlin. i think he's a phony. he doesnt fool me like he does a lot of the 'fans' . i believe he won with cowhers players, cant draft or coach up guys to replace cowhers great players and has this team headed in the wrong direction. i'll be happy for him to prove me wrong, but it is quite apparent that i am right. the past 5 years prove that.

feltdizz
01-15-2014, 12:57 PM
He said it himself, right here:

thanks.... ... .

feltdizz
01-15-2014, 12:58 PM
for whatever reason, tomlin feels the need to let everyone know that he makes the picks, he does the hiring and he does the firing.
i can only assume his ego took a serious shot with the arians debacle and he thinks he can fool some people into believing he is calling all the shots.
seriously, why would someone have a presser to state that they were the ones that fired arians? c'mon man.
same with the draft picks. says he is responsible for them. why not say its a team effort? its not about accountability with tomlin, its his ego.
so if tomlin wants to tell me that he is the one responsible, then i'll play along and believe him.
i dont like tomlin. i think he's a phony. he doesnt fool me like he does a lot of the 'fans' . i believe he won with cowhers players, cant draft or coach up guys to replace cowhers great players and has this team headed in the wrong direction. i'll be happy for him to prove me wrong, but it is quite apparent that i am right. the past 5 years prove that.

speaking of ego...lol. :D

Didn't we go to a SB in 2011?

NorthCoast
01-15-2014, 01:39 PM
Maybe I missed it but I didnt see anything that suggested he took less money. Regardless... we had a chance to make an offer and didn't. Maybe he says no but at least it shows we are interested. Without an offer it leaves the door open for Lewis to say "I was shocked they didn't even attempt to make an offer"

As far as his love for the Saints.. c'mon. Larry Fitzgerald said this:
I grew up a Vikings fan and I would be lying to you if I didn’t say I was still a Vikings fan. Growing up in Minnesota it’s second nature. I still pull for them when I’m not playing them. A lot of my closest friends in the NFL are Vikings. I’m close with (Everson) Griffen, Jared Allen, Phil (Loadholt), Adrian Peterson (http://bleacherreport.com/adrian-peterson), Kyle Rudolph. You pull for your friends.

Cam Newton said this: "I've always been a Falcons fan, and I'm still a Falcons fan except for those two times a year [when the Panthers play Atlanta."

Every player in the NFL has a favorite team they grew up cheering for but if a team drafts them and gives them a contract offer BEFORE their favorite team makes them a great offer they will take it.

We messed up, it happens but it's OKAY to admit we screwed the pooch with the FO in cap hell and thinking Allen was/is better than Lewis.

Multiple sources valued Keenan Lewis' free agency contract value at anywhere from $35M-50M. He took $26M to play in New Orleans. There are a lot of fans that would call that a bargain for NO, meaning he undersold himself. Also, never underestimate the power of family pressure when making career choices. If you had the choice of being a multi-millionaire in a city you grew up in and love, versus a multi-millionaire in a place with no family or relationships, which would you choose?

feltdizz
01-15-2014, 01:54 PM
Multiple sources valued Keenan Lewis' free agency contract value at anywhere from $35M-50M. He took $26M to play in New Orleans. There are a lot of fans that would call that a bargain for NO, meaning he undersold himself. Also, never underestimate the power of family pressure when making career choices. If you had the choice of being a multi-millionaire in a city you grew up in and love, versus a multi-millionaire in a place with no family or relationships, which would you choose?

I'm from Pittsburgh so that's a trick question... I love home but not that much.

However, if I did love the city like Lewis I would move in a heartbeat.

I wasn't talking about his value though.. I was talking about actual offers. Slap's quote answered my question.

squidkid
01-15-2014, 02:20 PM
speaking of ego...lol. :D

Didn't we go to a SB in 2011?

sure did.
as cowhers players leave, tomlins winning decreases

feltdizz
01-15-2014, 03:55 PM
sure did.
as cowhers players leave, tomlins winning decreases

Oh... so the last 2 years.

Ernie
01-15-2014, 05:21 PM
Maybe I missed it but I didnt see anything that suggested he took less money. Regardless... we had a chance to make an offer and didn't. Maybe he says no but at least it shows we are interested. Without an offer it leaves the door open for Lewis to say "I was shocked they didn't even attempt to make an offer"

As far as his love for the Saints.. c'mon. Larry Fitzgerald said this:
I grew up a Vikings fan and I would be lying to you if I didn’t say I was still a Vikings fan. Growing up in Minnesota it’s second nature. I still pull for them when I’m not playing them. A lot of my closest friends in the NFL are Vikings. I’m close with (Everson) Griffen, Jared Allen, Phil (Loadholt), Adrian Peterson (http://bleacherreport.com/adrian-peterson), Kyle Rudolph. You pull for your friends.

Cam Newton said this: "I've always been a Falcons fan, and I'm still a Falcons fan except for those two times a year [when the Panthers play Atlanta."

Every player in the NFL has a favorite team they grew up cheering for but if a team drafts them and gives them a contract offer BEFORE their favorite team makes them a great offer they will take it.

We messed up, it happens but it's OKAY to admit we screwed the pooch with the FO in cap hell and thinking Allen was/is better than Lewis.

My thoughts exactly. It's foolish to think that Kennan Lewis is the first player in the NFL to have strong feelings about a particular team... yet play for another team.

squidkid
01-15-2014, 05:48 PM
Oh... so the last 2 years.
the team has been in decline since tomlin arrived

SteelBuckeye
01-15-2014, 06:34 PM
the team has been in decline since tomlin arrived

I get that you want to make a point about the trajectory of the team. However, blanket statements that fly in the face of facts only undermine your credibility. For example, the team has gone to two SBs under Tomlin. If that is your definition of "decline", there are plenty of fanbases that would love to be in decline. Now, if you had said that the team has been in decline for the last 3 years or so; as vets have aged and replacements have learned and sometimes floundered ... well, it would at least make your point more credible

fezziwig
01-15-2014, 06:39 PM
Evidently, he has felt this way and also let teams know that NO was his ultimate destination even coming out of the senior bowl. I'm not sure why the Steelers drafted him knowing this, obviously, he's a talented CB, and I believe had he shown the level of play in the year prior to his last year with the Steelers they would have offered him a contract extension with a year to go on his contract rather than allowing him to hit free agency. Would that have changed his mind about NO? No way of knowing. However, security is a very attractive benefit for football players and had the Steelers made him a nice extension offer with reasonable guaranteed money he may not have been able to turn it down.

Water under the bridge at this point, the Steelers need to draft a CB this year, IMO.

Pappy
Thanks pappy for your reply. Isn't it something how no one cares about this thread with the lack of rambling and non issues to discuss ? You would think the Steeler season is over and we were just kicking around potentials for the fun of being fans :)

Ernie
01-15-2014, 07:12 PM
"sure did.
as cowhers players leave, tomlins winning decreases"


This is a fact. I think next year will tell the tale. I think the Rooney's would agree too...by saying that "Tomlin's job is safe thru 2014"

feltdizz
01-15-2014, 07:15 PM
the team has been in decline since tomlin arrived

you sound nuts... last 2 or 3 years we have been on a decline but thats ONLY because we were in a SB in 2011. You can't deline your way to a SB.

feltdizz
01-15-2014, 07:18 PM
"sure did.
as cowhers players leave, tomlins winning decreases"


This is a fact. I think next year will tell the tale. I think the Rooney's would agree too...by saying that "Tomlin's job is safe thru 2014"

12 wins.. 8 wins.. 8 wins..

Trust me, it could be much worse... we could go 6-10 like Cowher.

Ernie
01-15-2014, 07:24 PM
12 wins.. 8 wins.. 8 wins..

Trust me, it could be much worse... we could go 6-10 like Cowher.

6-10 is very possible for next year.

SteelBuckeye
01-15-2014, 07:38 PM
6-10 is very possible for next year.

As is 10-6 ... which would you rather?

feltdizz
01-15-2014, 08:53 PM
6-10 is very possible for next year.

Most Tomlin detractors predicted 4-12, 5-11, 6-10 this year after the 0-4 start.

We finished the season 6-2 and missed the playoffs by inches. It wasnt a great year or even a good year but a season we thought was over after 4 games turned into a season we watched until the last game on Sunday.

7 years into Tomlins career and we haven't had a losing season yet.

papillon
01-15-2014, 10:55 PM
Most Tomlin detractors predicted 4-12, 5-11, 6-10 this year after the 0-4 start.

We finished the season 6-2 and missed the playoffs by inches. It wasnt a great year or even a good year but a season we thought was over after 4 games turned into a season we watched until the last game on Sunday.

7 years into Tomlins career and we haven't had a losing season yet.

And, I'd bet his job is safe past 2014 regardless of the won/loss record, the only ones saying he's on the hot seat are those that wish he was never hired.

Pappy

SteelBuckeye
01-15-2014, 11:07 PM
And, I'd bet his job is safe past 2014 regardless of the won/loss record, the only ones saying he's on the hot seat are those that wish he was never hired.

Pappy

The voice of wisdom/moderation ... often goes unheard in this day and age

Slapstick
01-16-2014, 06:58 AM
"sure did.
as cowhers players leave, tomlins winning decreases"


This is a fact. I think next year will tell the tale. I think the Rooney's would agree too...by saying that "Tomlin's job is safe thru 2014"

You are placing that in quotes as if someone in a position with the Steelers actually said that...

It didn't happen...it was reported by Ian "I wouldn't be surprised if Ben Roethlisberger requested a trade" Rapoport...

Ernie
01-16-2014, 07:26 AM
Most Tomlin detractors predicted 4-12, 5-11, 6-10 this year after the 0-4 start.

We finished the season 6-2 and missed the playoffs by inches. It wasnt a great year or even a good year but a season we thought was over after 4 games turned into a season we watched until the last game on Sunday.

7 years into Tomlins career and we haven't had a losing season yet.

Can you honestly look at the current roster situation (ie aging players, lack of depth, salary cap, strength of divisional opponents, etc) and tell me that 6-10 next year is not a real possibility?

Ernie
01-16-2014, 07:27 AM
You are placing that in quotes as if someone in a position with the Steelers actually said that...

It didn't happen...it was reported by Ian "I wouldn't be surprised if Ben Roethlisberger requested a trade" Rapoport...


I stand corrected then slap.

Ernie
01-16-2014, 07:29 AM
As is 10-6 ... which would you rather?


That's a dumb question. If it were up to me, I'd like to go undefeated every year and win the SB..

Discipline of Steel
01-16-2014, 08:14 AM
That is my prediction for next year.

squidkid
01-16-2014, 10:14 AM
Most Tomlin detractors predicted 4-12, 5-11, 6-10 this year after the 0-4 start.

We finished the season 6-2 and missed the playoffs by inches. It wasnt a great year or even a good year but a season we thought was over after 4 games turned into a season we watched until the last game on Sunday.

7 years into Tomlins career and we haven't had a losing season yet.


and most tomlin apologists predict 12-4, 14-2, 13-3 and 11-5 before the last couple seasons started. we had a terrible first round exit to tebow and then havent made the playoffs in 2 years. 7 years under tomlin and we havent made the playoffs in 3 of those, (including 2 in a row) and havent had a winning season the past 2.

feltdizz
01-16-2014, 10:33 AM
Can you honestly look at the current roster situation (ie aging players, lack of depth, salary cap, strength of divisional opponents, etc) and tell me that 6-10 next year is not a real possibility?

The way we ended the year 10-6 looks more likely than 6-10. We could go 16-0 or 0-16... no one knows the future.

feltdizz
01-16-2014, 10:35 AM
and most tomlin apologists predict 12-4, 14-2, 13-3 and 11-5 before the last couple seasons started. we had a terrible first round exit to tebow and then havent made the playoffs in 2 years. 7 years under tomlin and we havent made the playoffs in 3 of those, (including 2 in a row) and havent had a winning season the past 2.

7 years under Tomlin and we made the playoffs 4 times... made the SB 2 times.. won 1 lSB and haven't had a losing season yet.

WTF is the problem?

squidkid
01-16-2014, 11:16 AM
7 years under Tomlin and we made the playoffs 4 times... made the SB 2 times.. won 1 lSB and haven't had a losing season yet.

WTF is the problem?

if you like the direction this team is headed, then nothing

feltdizz
01-16-2014, 11:47 AM
if you like the direction this team is headed, then nothing

I LOVE the direction this team is headed.

6-2 the last 8 games...

squidkid
01-16-2014, 11:56 AM
I LOVE the direction this team is headed.

6-2 the last 8 games...


OR embarrssed by tebow, 8-8 no playoffs, 8-8 no playoffs............

Sugar
01-16-2014, 01:47 PM
OR embarrssed by tebow, 8-8 no playoffs, 8-8 no playoffs............

Old news. 6-2 in the last 8 games. The arrow appears to be pointed up!

squidkid
01-16-2014, 04:08 PM
Old news. 6-2 in the last 8 games. The arrow appears to be pointed up!


at times, i do envy those of you that can feel this way

feltdizz
01-16-2014, 05:18 PM
at times, i do envy those of you that can feel this way

it's easy to feel this way when you aren't dragging Tomlin bashing baggage around for 7 years.

Ernie
01-16-2014, 07:32 PM
I'm going to say that 6-10 is a real possibility next year... largely because of the question marks scattered all over both sides of the ball. A lot of this largely depends on what happens before the 1st pre season game.. and the FO will shoulder the balk of the burden (in my opinion) if next year goes the way of 6-10.

Ernie
01-16-2014, 07:39 PM
The way we ended the year 10-6 looks more likely than 6-10. We could go 16-0 or 0-16... no one knows the future.

This is true, but there are likely going to be some changes in key positions next year...so it may be a mistake to assume that this team is going to pick up where it left off. Like you said, no one knows the future.

NorthCoast
01-16-2014, 07:55 PM
at times, i do envy those of you that can feel this way


......... must be a glass half empty kinda guy......

feltdizz
01-17-2014, 09:23 AM
......... must be a glass half empty kinda guy......

I think that glass bottle was smashed against the wall the day Tomlin was hired.

feltdizz
01-17-2014, 09:27 AM
I'm going to say that 6-10 is a real possibility next year... largely because of the question marks scattered all over both sides of the ball. A lot of this largely depends on what happens before the 1st pre season game.. and the FO will shoulder the balk of the burden (in my opinion) if next year goes the way of 6-10.

What's the problem with the offense? We aren't running as well as I would like but Bell was a rookie and we had a patchwork OL all season. I could see if we gave the OL coach a raise but we gave him a pink slip. Ben is healthy, Heath will be healthy, AB is a beast, Cotch is solid, Sanders may walk but we have a 2nd rounder who should contribute and we always find value at WR in the draft.

Defense is a concern and I believe we will address most of our needs in the draft or FA.

I don't think the first preseason will have any bearing on our regular season unless we lose 3 or 4 starters for the year.

squidkid
01-17-2014, 10:14 AM
......... must be a glass half empty kinda guy......


just realistic

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
01-17-2014, 11:50 AM
I personally thought they didn't offer him a contract because he wanted to go home & play for his hometown team. I didn't fault him. If I ever made it to the NFL & had a chance to play for the Steelers...I would go there for an idiotic discount. If Lewis "didn't" go home & would of stayed....The FO can take a WTF were you thinking! For as hard it has been for the Steelers to find and/or develop good CBs...Colbert deserves a "Pie Smash, Nut Tap, Bitch Slap" on this one.

fezziwig
01-17-2014, 11:53 AM
Obviously our last off season and the start of our season I hated the direction of this team. It has gotten better with the 6-2 at the end but we wee still outdone by the likes of good teams and bad teams. Where do you set the bar with knowing what we could possibly obtain ? If Tomlin has another season opener loss I will be ticked. That will be four in a row if I'm correct and that now is on the coach especially when your losing your home openers to scrub teams.