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Steelhere10
04-10-2013, 10:58 AM
to a one year deal.

Mister Pittsburgh
04-10-2013, 10:59 AM
Was just going to post this....rough bit of news. WR just shot up our list.

AkronSteel
04-10-2013, 11:04 AM
According to Adam Schefter from ESPN, the Patriots have signed Manny Sanders to a one year offer sheet and the Steelers will have one week to match or will receive a 3rd round pick as compensation. I find it weird that it is only for one year. New England must have found a loophole to make it difficult for the Steelers to match. What are the chances the Steelers find a way to keep him? Do they extend Troy like they did with Aaron a couple years ago to free up the cash or do they just let him walk and go with the youth movement that is needed? What yinz think?

thor75
04-10-2013, 11:04 AM
So the Steelers didn't match?? What was the deal? They have 5 days to match...just read the article.

AkronSteel
04-10-2013, 11:05 AM
Sorry double threaded,, can someone combine?

thor75
04-10-2013, 11:08 AM
Pats don't even have a third this year, how does that work?

Bluto
04-10-2013, 11:11 AM
Pats don't even have a third this year, how does that work?
I may be wrong but we would get a 3rd next year??

steelerkeylargo
04-10-2013, 11:13 AM
I may be wrong but we would get a 3rd next year??

Patriots have the 29th pick in the 3rd round

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
04-10-2013, 11:13 AM
I may be wrong but we would get a 3rd next year??

I don't think that it works that way. I believe that the Pats will have to go out and get one. Strange how that works though, what would happen if it was KC who signed him and then went out and traded for Baltimore's third? You would think that if a team wants to sign a RFA then they should be required to own their own pick.

thor75
04-10-2013, 11:16 AM
My bad!! New England does have a pick at 29th in the 3rd, I was looking in the wrong spot!!

AkronSteel
04-10-2013, 11:20 AM
That gives the team 4 picks in the first 100. I don't know if I just let him walk and start to rebuild this aging team the way it's always been done, through the draft. Manny is probably not worth the money New England shelled out to hurt us.

focosteeler
04-10-2013, 11:27 AM
They Young Money Crew is no more.... I say let him go, use the extra 3rd on Stedman Bailey or Terrance Williams.

Big Ern McCracken
04-10-2013, 11:27 AM
Looks like receiver just jumped up considerably on the list of need... along with just about every other position. Need to have a jam up draft this year or we're going to be mediocre for several years to come...especially if the injuries happen in mass numbers like they have the last few years.

calmkiller
04-10-2013, 11:28 AM
We will receive the 91st pick overall and 1.3 million in cap space if we let him walk. We could sign Steve Breaston for the vet min by now I am sure and that would fill the spot. Take Tavon Austin and Stedman Bailey and we are set. No worries ;)

Jooser
04-10-2013, 11:28 AM
Patriots sign Emmanuel Sanders to offer sheet

Posted by Michael David Smith on April 10, 2013, 10:36 AM EDT
http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/e-sanders.jpg?w=250
Getty Images
The Patriots are making a move for wide receiver Emmanuel Sanders (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5885/emmanuel-sanders).

Sanders, a restricted free agent from the Steelers, has signed an offer sheet with the Patriots, according to multiple reports.

That means the Steelers will have five days to either match the Patriots’ offer and keep Sanders, or decline to match it and let Sanders become a Patriot. If the Steelers don’t match, they get the Patriots’ third-round draft pick, No. 91 overall.

The offer is reportedly a one-year contract. The Patriots have more cap space than the Steelers this season, so it wouldn’t be hard for New England to offer Sanders a higher salary in 2013 than the Steelers can afford to pay. But if the Patriots send the Steelers their third-round draft pick they’ll be almost out of ammunition in the draft: They’ve already traded away their fourth-round pick for Aqib Talib (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4640/aqib-talib), their fifth-round pick for Albert Haynesworth (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2636/albert-haynesworth) and their sixth-round pick for Chad Ochocinco.

Sanders visited the Patriots a month ago, and the possibility that he could land in New England has been much-discussed since then. If the Steelers don’t match, then the Patriots have taken a big step toward filling the gaps in their receiving corps, and the Steelers — who have already lost Mike Wallace (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5329/mike-wallace) in free agency — will be down two of their top three wide receivers.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-10-2013, 11:28 AM
Schefter is saying money won't be the issue..It will be about is he worth a 3rd pick and what the Steelers "Long term" plans are with him. It is tough to call. Deep WR class. Hate to see him go but I guess we will see what the Steelers crystal ball was telling them.

Jooser
04-10-2013, 11:30 AM
we will receive the 91st pick overall and 1.3 million in cap space if we let him walk. We could sign steve breaston for the vet min by now i am sure and that would fill the spot. Take tavon austin and stedman bailey and we are set. No worries ;)

whhhhhooooooooo hhhhhhhooooooooooooo

calmkiller
04-10-2013, 11:35 AM
Looking at the visitors so far I wonder if the Steelers planned on this happening. The majority of their visitors so far have been 2-3 projected round picks. Take into consideration that only 2 1st rounders have visted so far and maybe the Steelers plan on having 2 seconds and 3 thirds this year? Let Sanders walk and trade back?


With Sanders

Draft 2.2
1. Xavier Rhodes, CB, FSU
2. Eric Reid, S, LSU
3. Stedman Bailey, WR, WVU
4. Le’Veon Bell, RB, Michigan State
5. Landry Jones, QB, OU
6a. Cornelius Washington, OLB, Georgia
6b. Duke Williams, SS, Nevada
7. Vince Williams, ILB, FSU

Without Sander.

Draft 2.3
1. Tavon Austin, WR, WVU
2. Eric Reid, S, LSU
3. Stedman Bailey, WR, WVU
3b.Malliciah Goodman, OLB, Clemson
4. Le’Veon Bell, RB, Michigan State
5. Landry Jones, QB, OU
6a. Cornelius Washington, OLB, Georgia
6b. Duke Williams, SS, Nevada
7. Vince Williams, ILB, FSU

Eich
04-10-2013, 11:42 AM
I like Sanders but don't know that he's worth $4M. We still have AB, Plax and I believe Cotch, right ? As unimpressive as that is, it's still on par with or better than what we won the Super Bowl with in 2005.

Bring in some new talent from the draft and see where it goes.

The Steelers this season will hardly resemble the one from last season.

Mister Pittsburgh
04-10-2013, 11:43 AM
Let him go, take the 3rd. Trade pick 17 to Miami for their two second rounders.

Shoe
04-10-2013, 12:20 PM
Schefter is saying money won't be the issue..It will be about is he worth a 3rd pick and what the Steelers "Long term" plans are with him. It is tough to call. Deep WR class. Hate to see him go but I guess we will see what the Steelers crystal ball was telling them.

By saying money won't be an issue, is he just saying we can afford to keep him or that the savings in letting him go (i.e. $1.3 million) is marginal? I would think that since we are so strapped, that $1.3m savings letting Sanders walk would be very helpful. In any case, we'll see if the "Sanders is a #1 WR" that we heard last year was just rhetoric. Cuz you don't let a #1 caliber WR walk for $4 million.

calmkiller
04-10-2013, 12:31 PM
Well ****.


Report: ‘Expect’ Steelers to keep Emmanuel Sanders Posted by Mike Wilkening on April 10, 2013, 12:08 PM EDT
http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/350x-739-e1351714548163.jpg?w=244 Getty ImagesIt may be a little early to start wondering what number Emmanuel Sanders (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5885/emmanuel-sanders) will wear in New England.
ESPN’s Ed Werder reported Wednesday that he expects the Steelers to match (https://twitter.com/Edwerderespn/status/322006954069352449) the Patriots’ offer sheet to Sanders, keeping the wide receiver in the fold.
Were the Steelers to decline to match the offer to Sanders, they would receive the Pats’ third-round pick (No. 91 overall). While this would be a cost-efficient move, it would also leave the Steelers rather thin at wide receiver behind top target Antonio Brown (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5698/antonio-brown). The Steelers lost Mike Wallace (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5329/mike-wallace) to Miami earlier in free agency, and Sanders is expected to move into the starting lineup after three seasons as a reserve.
Sanders hauled in 44 passes for 626 yards and one TD in 16 games (seven starts) for Pittsburgh in 2012. No matter where he plays in 2013, Sanders looks like a good bet to get more opportunities in the passing game than he ever has.
Werder’s tweet suggests that the fourth-year wideout from SMU isn’t going anywhere, which figures to make Ben Roethlisberger (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/1181/ben-roethlisberger) happy.

RuthlessBurgher
04-10-2013, 12:36 PM
Analysis: Emmanuel Sanders offer
April, 10, 2013 11:55AM ET
By Mike Reiss | ESPNBoston.com

The Patriots' one-year offer sheet to Steelers restricted free agent receiver Emmanuel Sanders (financial terms not known) is fascinating on multiple levels.

Some thoughts:

1. Connections to 2004 offer sheet. This reminds me of the 2004 offer sheet that Steelers restricted free agent defensive lineman Rodney Bailey signed with the Patriots (1 year, $1.3 million, $650,000 guaranteed). The Steelers didn’t match and received the Patriots’ sixth-round draft choice in return. With Bailey, the Patriots didn’t put together an offer sheet that would be hard to match financially. The hope was that the Steelers, philosophically, would see more value in the sixth-round pick than the one-year increased salary to a player they were somewhat cool on at the time. Based on tweets from ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter, who is the best in the business, the situation with Sanders mirrors what unfolded with Bailey in 2004.

2. Potential fit in Patriots offense. The 5-foot-11, 180-pound Sanders has flexibility to line up in a variety of spots, but his primary value to the Patriots would be on the outside. That's where the glaring need remains for the Patriots.

3. Could be quiet on draft day. The Patriots currently have five draft choices. If the Steelers don’t match the offer sheet to Sanders, the Patriots would surrender their third-round draft choice to Pittsburgh. A draft in which Bill Belichick entered with just four selections -- it would be a first-round pick, second-round pick and two seventh-rounders if Pittsburgh doesn't match -- is a stunning turn from the norm when he’s usually overstocked with draft-chip ammunition.

4. Track record at receiver a factor for Patriots. The Patriots’ track record of drafting and developing receivers out of college is shaky. Having seen three years of Sanders in the NFL probably gives the club more comfort in making this move, which reminds us of something Bill Belichick said at the NFL’s annual meeting in March: “As I’ve said many times before, I think the college passing game is a lot different than the (pro) passing game so that it involves, pass protection, pass rush, pass execution and pass defense. So, we all look at the same film. We’re all trying to evaluate the same players. But, it’s a lot easier to watch a guy in the NFL perform and translate his skills for your team than watch a guy in college perform because of the discrepancy in the passing game. It’s nobody’s fault. That’s just the way it is.’’

5. Economics can't be overlooked. From an economic perspective, the Patriots’ willingness to give up a cheaper four-year rookie deal that would go to a third-round pick – and take on a more lucrative one-year deal in its place -- is telling. In part, it speaks to their need at receiver. It also should be noted that their discipline in managing the salary cap provides them the opportunity to think along these lines.

6. Interest in Sanders always legit. When the Patriots hosted Sanders on a visit last month, some viewed it as a potential leverage play against veteran receiver Brandon Lloyd, who was in talks with the club to reduce his salary. That obviously wasn’t the case. There was genuine interest in Sanders in part because of how the Patriots viewed he could fit in their system based on their tape study from his time with the Steelers. Always was.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4741960/analysis-emmanuel-sanders-offer

Bluto
04-10-2013, 12:50 PM
Pat have agreed with Julian Edelman also cbs is reporting. So now they have Edelman ,Amendola, Did Lyord restructure to stay? and I think one other person was brought in. Think Sanders signed this sheet to force Steelers to address his contract. He better becareful because he may go to a teams with alot of WR and not get as much action as he was gonna get in the Burgh.

feltdizz
04-10-2013, 01:15 PM
old money>>>young money

thor75
04-10-2013, 01:30 PM
If the Steelers do not match, how many change their minds on Tavon Austin in the first? I was opposed due to his size because I wasn't keen on 3 smaller WRs. Different story if Sanders is allowed to leave.

steelz09
04-10-2013, 01:56 PM
If the Steelers do not match, how many change their minds on Tavon Austin in the first? I was opposed due to his size because I wasn't keen on 3 smaller WRs. Different story if Sanders is allowed to leave.

I'd still prefer Hopkins. IMO, Hopkins > Austin as a full time WR. Austin > Hopkins as an overall threat because his return capabilities.

phillyesq
04-10-2013, 02:27 PM
I really find myself hoping that the Steelers do not match. I think any rookie will likely be at least a moderate downgrade from Sanders for 2013, but could easily replicate what he brings in the future. His 6 catch, 81 yard game in the playoffs against the Broncos was easily the best of his Steelers career. He has never had a 100 yard game. I know that he is supposed to be a good route runner and has ok speed, but I think he is a low end #2 or high end #3, at best. You can find a marginal starter or good #3 in the third round, and it would give the Steelers another young, cost controlled player.

If I was the Steelers, I would sign Breaston (if healthy), let Sanders walk, and spend a high pick on a WR.

squidkid
04-10-2013, 03:07 PM
sweet news. take the 3rd round pick and never look back

supersteeler
04-10-2013, 03:41 PM
Before jumping on the bandwagon to take the third one might want to consider a rookie WR rarely makes immediate impact and needs time to learn the system and routes. Beside that Plaxico and Cotchery haven't seen the field much in this new offense either so the only experience in Haley's offense is Brown.
I don't know if the Steelers will match the offer, but IMO we are taking steps backwards on offense if we don't.

The receiver position is one where in college you can get by from just being more athletic, bigger, or faster than the next guy. Once these guys make the jump to the NFL, things are much more complicated. First, the routes you typically run in a college system are far less complex (most of the time) and don’t do a great job of preparing you for the diverse schemes and routes in the NFL. In college, receivers will usually run digs, hooks, posts, and 9 routes (fly or a streak). Once you get to the pros receivers will see more option routes (which could involve up to three different routes) where they will have to adjust to the coverage and change their route in a split second. This is also why quickness and agility take precedence over sheer speed. Another reason why this is such a difficult position when transitioning to the pros is because of the complex dialogue used as well as the depth of the playbook. To become a starting receiver in the league you must also be strong and have the ability to block effectively.

Steelerphile
04-10-2013, 04:41 PM
If the amount to match is 1.3 m. I think the Steelers are crazy to let Sanders go. Without Wallace in front of him, he will be able to show his full range of talents. He career stats might be somewhat modest, because he was behind Brown and Wallace and was overcoming injuries. Patriots stay on this guy because they see his ability, which will bloom in the future. A rookie receiver is an unknown. Many a good college receiver has bombed out in the NFL.

Cotchery and Plax are on the downside and a rookie is an unknown. Breaston's injury situation is worse than Sanders. I guess the fans want to see the Steelers fail. They have already lost a lot from last year's team. They need to stem the tide and retain Sanders.

AkronSteel
04-10-2013, 04:42 PM
If the offer sheet is for only $2.5 million as being reported then the Steelers have to match that deal and try to work out an extension with Manny this summer. There is already 1.23 wrapped up in the tender so that would add only another 1.3 which would cause the Steelers to do no more restructures. Sanders is worth 2.5 and the team would not get the production out of a rookie as they would Manny. He's the best route runner on the team. Plus the team needs to draft another playmaker anyways. I don't want to see them have to draft two WR's in the first 4 rounds.

Big Ern McCracken
04-10-2013, 04:45 PM
Agree 100% to the last two posts. Very well stated.

squidkid
04-10-2013, 05:42 PM
everybody wants to pony up the extra money to keep sanders. why, so he can leave next yea via wallace?
everybody wants to pony up the extra money to keep sanders. how, by restructuring more bad contracts so we can be in the same situation we are in now?
everybody wants to pony up the extra money for sanders and extend him. how, we barely have any money now, a new deal will most definitely cost us more than the one year matching offer.
i say take the pick.

BURGH86STEEL
04-10-2013, 06:29 PM
I think I'd chose an up and coming young player that proved he can play in the league over a 3rd round draft pick that has a 30% chance of ever becoming a starter. The Pats probably know the success rate of 3rd round draft picks and are choosing to take their chances by attempting to sign Sanders. If the finances are there the Steelers will probably match the Pats offer.

Oviedo
04-10-2013, 07:02 PM
IMO Eifert or Ertz just became more valuable to us. They would draw Safety coverage and would open up space for our WRs. Maybe that is what Haley has been planning

DukieBoy
04-10-2013, 07:04 PM
Sign him and then extend him before training camp.

supersteeler
04-10-2013, 07:10 PM
Sign him and then extend him before training camp.


Hopefully that will happen. I wonder what Ben is thinking about now?

anger 82&95
04-10-2013, 08:11 PM
Hopefully that will happen. I wonder what Ben is thinking about now?He’s probably rummaging around frantically for Cedric Wilson’s phone number

Eddie Spaghetti
04-10-2013, 08:23 PM
take the pick.

draft darick rogers in the 3rd. In a year, you might have a true #1, which we don't right now. You can probably sign a cheap FA and get 80% of sanders production. We aren't winning a championship next year anyways, IMO. A deep WR class makes this even easier to swallow.

if they are intent on turning the roster over, this one is a no brainer.

squidkid
04-10-2013, 08:35 PM
Sign him and then extend him before training camp.


with what money?

Eddie Spaghetti
04-10-2013, 08:42 PM
forget the money.

what has sanders done to earn an extension?

I'm not seeing this as a big loss if it goes down.

Shoe
04-10-2013, 09:15 PM
everybody wants to pony up the extra money to keep sanders. why, so he can leave next yea via wallace?
everybody wants to pony up the extra money to keep sanders. how, by restructuring more bad contracts so we can be in the same situation we are in now?
everybody wants to pony up the extra money for sanders and extend him. how, we barely have any money now, a new deal will most definitely cost us more than the one year matching offer.
i say take the pick.

Well, you're right. It's one of those chess instead of checkers sort-of deals. Matching the deal assumes that Manny will play up to the ability people think he has. If he does (i.e. solid #2 WR or low #1 WR, which we heard from someone... I think even Ben), he will command a big deal. And if that is the case, we have to know how much money we will have to spend on him.

Me not-knowing the cap situation next year, I'd say that we should let him go and take the salary-cap jail that we've imposed upon ourselves. But it's not cut/dried as the other "take the 3rd round pick and let the door hit him on the way out" people want to make it seem.

supersteeler
04-10-2013, 09:27 PM
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:9157456


comments by Hoge about Ben and this matter, and how it might effect him.

Mister Pittsburgh
04-10-2013, 09:28 PM
When throwing around WR in rounds 2 through 4 why is Ryan Swope and his blazing speed and good hands never mentioned?

papillon
04-10-2013, 10:04 PM
forget the money.

what has sanders done to earn an extension?

I'm not seeing this as a big loss if it goes down.

It's not a big loss, but the cumulative effect of what has gone on this off season will leave an offense needing to fill the following positions, #1 WR, #3 WR, #1 RB and #1 TE not to mention an offensive line that was often injured last year. Fans hope DeCastro is everything they've heard, Gilbert injured more Steelers than opponents, Starks isn't coming back, colon is gone, Adams showed some signs, bur was injured as well, Foster and Pouncey were constant. The offense didn't need to replace another player, but it certainly looks as if that is the case.

Not to mention this almost forces them into a WR at 1.17 and certainly by 2.49 a WR has to be taken and then one later in the draft. Brown, Cotchery, Burris, practice squad receivers and rookies is a losing proposition in my book in a league that is pass happy.

It's going to be a long 2 years (maybe longer) for the black and gold, IMO.

Pappy

NorthCoast
04-10-2013, 10:05 PM
I think I'd chose an up and coming young player that proved he can play in the league over a 3rd round draft pick that has a 30% chance of ever becoming a starter. The Pats probably know the success rate of 3rd round draft picks and are choosing to take their chances by attempting to sign Sanders. If the finances are there the Steelers will probably match the Pats offer.


I agree Burgh. The fail rate on rookie NFL WRs is too high to risk letting Sanders go. The price is modest for his potential. The Steelers need to focus on other priorities in this draft.

Mister Pittsburgh
04-10-2013, 10:21 PM
The Steelers should start talking to small school and late round projected WR's that could go under after and play up that they should sign with us as we need WR's.

steelz09
04-10-2013, 10:33 PM
I have mixed feelings about it. I would love the extra 3rd but this team is weak in some many areas that I don't think we can afford to lose Sanders as well.

steelz09
04-10-2013, 10:35 PM
with what money?

The Steelers FO think it's more important to keep Ike for 9.5 million. Elite Money to an old CB that isn't a playmaker and is on the downside of his career.

Sugar
04-10-2013, 10:50 PM
It's not a big loss, but the cumulative effect of what has gone on this off season will leave an offense needing to fill the following positions, #1 WR, #3 WR, #1 RB and #1 TE not to mention an offensive line that was often injured last year. Fans hope DeCastro is everything they've heard, Gilbert injured more Steelers than opponents, Starks isn't coming back, colon is gone, Adams showed some signs, bur was injured as well, Foster and Pouncey were constant. The offense didn't need to replace another player, but it certainly looks as if that is the case.

Not to mention this almost forces them into a WR at 1.17 and certainly by 2.49 a WR has to be taken and then one later in the draft. Brown, Cotchery, Burris, practice squad receivers and rookies is a losing proposition in my book in a league that is pass happy.

It's going to be a long 2 years (maybe longer) for the black and gold, IMO.

Pappy

I followed and pulled for this team through the 80's. I can do it again if needed.

Chadman
04-10-2013, 11:31 PM
Reckon Sanders is gone.

While it will mean the Steelers likely need to draft a WR in the first 2-3 rounds, the Steelers will still need to find a starter opposite Brown. Cotchery isn't that guy, and Burress is a situational guy at this point.

What's Randy Moss' number?

fordfixer
04-10-2013, 11:55 PM
Keep Sanders we know what we have in him.

hawaiiansteel
04-11-2013, 02:45 AM
Keep Sanders we know what we have in him.

I agree, there is a reason Bellicheat is willing to give up a late 3rd round pick for him.

Chadman
04-11-2013, 06:26 AM
That being said, this is now an opportunity to revamp the WR's into Haley-style WR's. And with strong draft depth at WR & safety, the Steelers could sink the 1st round pick into a different 'area of want' like LB or along the lines, then pick up a WR or safety in round 2 and 3.

DBR96A
04-11-2013, 07:31 AM
I agree, there is a reason Bellicheat is willing to give up a late 3rd round pick for him.
Because the Patriots suck at developing their own WRs?

supersteeler
04-11-2013, 08:37 AM
forget the money.

what has sanders done to earn an extension?

I'm not seeing this as a big loss if it goes down.


Are you kidding, Wallace is gone Heath isn't expected to play early on and now Sanders. I disagree, it is a loss in that it weakens our offense something that we were supposed to upgrade. If people expect rookies to come in here and make up the difference your mistaken, it takes time to adjust to the NFL and learning the playbook.

steelblood
04-11-2013, 08:51 AM
I think I'd chose an up and coming young player that proved he can play in the league over a 3rd round draft pick that has a 30% chance of ever becoming a starter. The Pats probably know the success rate of 3rd round draft picks and are choosing to take their chances by attempting to sign Sanders. If the finances are there the Steelers will probably match the Pats offer.

Sure for this year, but we are talking about one year for Sanders vs four years for a third round pick. Sanders is a good player, but he is not elite and he has an extensive injury history. This is a really close call, imho. I'd probably let him walk.

Starlifter
04-11-2013, 08:54 AM
It's not about a one year deal. the steelers have to decide if they want sanders long term and are willing to lock him up in the next few months. If so, match the deal and work out a 5 year contract. if not, let him go take the pick. we have not been drafting very high the last few years due to our success, yet we were able to find 3 quality WR's through the draft. none of these guys are irreplaceable. if you want them long term, you make the deal. if you don't, you let others make the deal and get some compensation out of it.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-11-2013, 09:34 AM
I want Sanders here but I thought long & hard about the situation. The whole outcome will be based on if the Steelers have any intentions of keeping Sanders here past 2013 regardless of his 2013 production. If they have no intentions, they will take the pick. Sign Breaston/Lloyd, sign Bradshaw, and draft a couple WRs & another RB. The "All Cut" team for 2013...KC on the hotseat? Losing Wallace & Sanders will hurt...Never thought it was possible in an offseason...But they may think a "bridge" of Brown, Burress, Cotchery, Breaston/Lloyd, and a couple of rookies can get them by. They may think a Gilreath, Moore, Moye, or Reed may surprise...Because they would certainly surprise the hell out of me.

If Sanders has a 70/1,100 6TDs season, They won't invest in him. Even with that type of production, he won't get a big enough contract in the market to get a 3rd round comp. If he puts up a 50/800 3TDs or misses games due to injury...That 3rd round pick could of provided great value....Not to mention everyone in here calling for KC's head.

I want to win & think the SAFER way to go is match but long term ramifications may be better with the 3rd. What an offseason.

This upcoming draft and the 1 or 2 FA signings that MAY happen over the next couple weeks could make or break the great KC reputation. I mean think about it. Rub that crystal ball and go mid season where the Steelers could be a 5-3 team tied in the AFC North. You can hear the announcer calling KC a genius. Losing 8 potential starters to FA/Cuts and starting the season without Heath Miller....Being right in the thick of things midseason. Plugging in vets, draft choices in waiting, and rookies to continue & be a contender. Unfortunately, I can see another side appear in that crystal ball where the Steelers are 3-5 and the announcer is saying it was inevitable after losing 8 potential starters to FA/Cuts and starting the season without Heath Miller. Has it been smart decisions or just plain luck over the years. You start getting the feeling the luck is gonna run out here real soon.

anger 82&95
04-11-2013, 09:54 AM
Because the Patriots suck at developing their own WRs? Per ESPN: The Patriots’ track record of drafting and developing receivers out of college is shaky. Having seen three years of Sanders in the NFL probably gives the club more comfort in making this move, which reminds us of something Belichick said at the NFL’s annual meeting in March: “As I’ve said many times before, I think the college passing game is a lot different than the [pro] passing game -- pass protection, pass rush, pass execution and pass defense. We all look at the same film. We’re all trying to evaluate the same players. But it’s a lot easier to watch a guy in the NFL perform and translate his skills for your team than watch a guy in college perform because of the discrepancy in the passing game. It’s nobody’s fault. That’s just the way it is.’’ http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4741960/analysis-emmanuel-sanders-offer

SidSmythe
04-11-2013, 09:58 AM
I'm torn here. I was very excited about SANDERS coming out of college. This will be a business decision at the end of the day. Is he worth adding more cap stress to the team only to end up gone next year w/ no compensation??? Or do the Steelers have big plans for SANDERS this season in the offense??

papillon
04-11-2013, 10:19 AM
Based on the past 20 years the Steelers may as well let him walk. Except for Hines Ward the Steelers don't seem to be willing to pay a receiver a second contract. They must believe that they can find suitable WRs in the draft and get enough production from a rookie to continually allow WRs to seek fame and fortune elsewhere. Over the past 20 years here is a list of Wrs and their tenure with the Steelers (to the best of my knowledge and quick research).

Hines Ward - 14
Yancey Thigpen - 6
Ernie MIlls - 6
Charles Johnson - 5
Plaxico Burress - 5 (initial stint)
Blackwell - 5
Holmes - 4
Wallace - 4
Washington - 4
Hastings - 4
Hawkins - 4
Edwards - 3
Wolson - 3
Sanders - 3 ??

Why would they start now with Sanders? Clearly, the Steelers do not value the WR position as a high priority and I believe their philosophy is to have a stable a capable WRs without a superstar WR eating up cap space. I'm not saying that Sanders is a superstar WR, but they probably believe that they can find his production in the draft. IMO, he's a Patriot and the Steelers will not match the offer sheet, he would be a UFA next year and they certainly aren't paying big dollars to keep him. I'm wondering why they jumped the gun on Brown?

Pappy

Slapstick
04-11-2013, 10:27 AM
Sanders three year stats: 40 games - 94 catches - 1,290 yards - 5 TDs

Steve Breaston's last three years: 39 games - 115 catches - 1,577 yards - 3 TDs

Who would you sign one year? Can you get Breaston for less than $2.5 million?

papillon
04-11-2013, 10:30 AM
Sanders three year stats: 40 games - 94 catches - 1,290 yards - 5 TDs

Steve Breaston's last three years: 39 games - 115 catches - 1,577 yards - 3 TDs

Who would you sign one year? Can you get Breaston for less than $2.5 million?

There it is and Breaston can handle KR/PR, correct? You would think Breaston's numbers will go up because of Ben. He had no one throwing the ball to him in Arizona.

Pappy

phillyesq
04-11-2013, 10:55 AM
Sanders three year stats: 40 games - 94 catches - 1,290 yards - 5 TDs

Steve Breaston's last three years: 39 games - 115 catches - 1,577 yards - 3 TDs

Who would you sign one year? Can you get Breaston for less than $2.5 million?

Great comparison, although I will say the one difference is that Sanders is younger with potential upside while Breaston's performance has probably peaked. When you add Breaston + a 3rd round pick or Sanders, I would take Breaston (if he is healthy) and it is not close.

Put differently, a starting duo of Sanders/Brown is not going to scare a defense any more than a duo of Breaston/Plax or whoever and Brown. The Steelers were likely to draft another WR anyway. And they have a good track record there, aside from Limas Sweed. The third gives them another opportunity to add youth elsewhere.

Also, if Sanders leaves, the Steelers will have back-to-back seasons with 4 picks in the top 3 rounds. That should help to add youth to both sides of the ball.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-11-2013, 11:03 AM
Sanders three year stats: 40 games - 94 catches - 1,290 yards - 5 TDs

Steve Breaston's last three years: 39 games - 115 catches - 1,577 yards - 3 TDs

Who would you sign one year? Can you get Breaston for less than $2.5 million?

I think they could get Breaston in here for 1-1.5 mil. Possibly even vet min. The good thing is a Bradshaw, Breaston, Lloyd, does not impact the comp picks next year. Also, any one of those you get to sign for min has a cap deduction.

Slapstick
04-11-2013, 11:20 AM
Great comparison, although I will say the one difference is that Sanders is younger with potential upside while Breaston's performance has probably peaked. When you add Breaston + a 3rd round pick or Sanders, I would take Breaston (if he is healthy) and it is not close.


Sanders is younger with more potential upside...but, if it's a one year contract, who cares about potential upside? If the Steelers are that interested in Sanders' potential upside, match the offer and extend him...

Otherwise, buh-bye...

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-11-2013, 11:22 AM
Great comparison, although I will say the one difference is that Sanders is younger with potential upside while Breaston's performance has probably peaked. When you add Breaston + a 3rd round pick or Sanders, I would take Breaston (if he is healthy) and it is not close.

Put differently, a starting duo of Sanders/Brown is not going to scare a defense any more than a duo of Breaston/Plax or whoever and Brown. The Steelers were likely to draft another WR anyway. And they have a good track record there, aside from Limas Sweed. The third gives them another opportunity to add youth elsewhere.

Also, if Sanders leaves, the Steelers will have back-to-back seasons with 4 picks in the top 3 rounds. That should help to add youth to both sides of the ball.

And I think that line of thinking is being shared within the front office. I don't think "Long Term" is penciled in next to Sanders name no matter what type of season he has in 2013 So getting the comp in this years draft gets you the most return on your lost investment.

I believe Bradshaw & Sanders are tied together now. The monies they will tie up in Sanders for 2013 to match could realistically net them 2 potential starters. Bradshaw being one. Breaston/LLoyd may be the other. If they let Sanders leave and they sign 2...They would be in a better sitaution going into the draft where there would be no panic to pull the trigger early at a position. If they miss at WR in the 1st...There is great depth in the 2nd & 3rd that could net you a starter. Same with RB in the 2nd. No need to pull the trigger unless someone they didn't expect falls. Rds 3 & 4 are filled with quality and even later. I expected them to take a WR with Sanders and I expect them to take a RB even if they sign Bradshaw. Hate to see Sanders go but if I we are going to say goodbye to him anyway after 2013...Give me a 3rd and hopefully Breaston/Lloyd can fill the void. Pile on a rookie or two & I think we may just take a lateral step.

phillyesq
04-11-2013, 12:12 PM
And I think that line of thinking is being shared within the front office. I don't think "Long Term" is penciled in next to Sanders name no matter what type of season he has in 2013 So getting the comp in this years draft gets you the most return on your lost investment.

I believe Bradshaw & Sanders are tied together now. The monies they will tie up in Sanders for 2013 to match could realistically net them 2 potential starters. Bradshaw being one. Breaston/LLoyd may be the other. If they let Sanders leave and they sign 2...They would be in a better sitaution going into the draft where there would be no panic to pull the trigger early at a position. If they miss at WR in the 1st...There is great depth in the 2nd & 3rd that could net you a starter. Same with RB in the 2nd. No need to pull the trigger unless someone they didn't expect falls. Rds 3 & 4 are filled with quality and even later. I expected them to take a WR with Sanders and I expect them to take a RB even if they sign Bradshaw. Hate to see Sanders go but if I we are going to say goodbye to him anyway after 2013...Give me a 3rd and hopefully Breaston/Lloyd can fill the void. Pile on a rookie or two & I think we may just take a lateral step.

Really good point about potentially adding two starters. If the options are:

Sanders

or

Bradshaw
Lloyd/Breaston
3rd Round Pick

It's really not even close.

I would be very surprised if Sanders signed long term with the Steelers. It would not surprise me if he has a side deal worked out with the Pats* already for a longer deal, and I can see him wanting more than what the Steelers will offer. And, if he is not signable or in the long term plans, even though there might be a slight downgrade this year, I'd let him walk and recoup value while that is still an option.

Mister Pittsburgh
04-11-2013, 12:33 PM
5 years from now I won't be surprised if we look back and the Steelers look wise in signing Brown long term and letting Wallace, and potentially Sanders, walk.

SteelerOfDeVille
04-11-2013, 12:46 PM
wishbone offense 2014!!

steelz09
04-11-2013, 12:49 PM
I have a hunch the Steelers will not match the Pats offer.

thor75
04-11-2013, 12:53 PM
If Sanders is allowed to leave, the pressure will really be on KC to hit on this draft. The drafting and player development has gotten a lot of attention this offseason. The mass exodus of players will not provide a lot of confidence in the locker room I would imagine. Will Allen has already stated the offensive side of the room was somewhat divided. If Sanders is another departure, the onus will really be on Ben more to provide that leadership and the new players need to see a united front between him and Haley.

They need a clear cut decision on whether this is going to be the run first team of old or start embracing the passing game as your breadwinner. As Pappy mentioned, a lot of WRs are not around long, this may have been a product of them emphasizing the run in the past idk. The rules are leaning heavily toward the passing offense as we all know. I'm sure Haley, Tomlin, and KC have a plan. Haley's second year should give us more of a glimpse of that imo.

The fate of Sanders is not hinged on the first two points imo. I think its strictly financial at this point. They prob. let him go and at least get something in return. And I love Sanders, loved the pick and would rather see him remain a Steeler. But to keep him as a UFA next year will probably be prohibitive with the cap stress. A long term deal may not be attained. For as much kudos Omar Khan gets as the cap guru, I wonder if his recent job offers have fallen thru because teams see the current situation. This is speculation as I don't keep up on the financials like some people.

phillyesq
04-11-2013, 01:34 PM
Interesting take from Dale Lolley, in the comments section of his blog:


Dale Lolley (http://www.blogger.com/profile/13089003781188560287) said... The bottom line is this: If Sanders were available via a trade, would they give another team a third-round pick for him?

I think not. So the third-round pick has great value. And as I stated, he'll be a FA at the end of the season again and they could lose him with little compensation - a comp pick a year later.

I think you let him leave and thank the Patriots for taking him off your hands. You went through 2012 with one lame duck receiver, why do it again with another. And believe me, Sanders could play the disgruntled player way better than Wallace.


Reading that I'm even more on board with Sanders leaving.

thor75
04-11-2013, 01:49 PM
Interesting take from Dale Lolley, in the comments section of his blog:



Reading that I'm even more on board with Sanders leaving.

Sanders more disgruntled than Wallace, I find thatsurprising. SMU coaches held him in high regard coming out of school. Seems like a great teammate to me, but I'm not around the team obviously.

hawaiiansteel
04-11-2013, 02:22 PM
Sanders more disgruntled than Wallace, I find thatsurprising. SMU coaches held him in high regard coming out of school. Seems like a great teammate to me, but I'm not around the team obviously.

while at SMU, Sanders was suspended for the final two games of the 2008 season because he was late twice to study hall and another time to practice.

thor75
04-11-2013, 02:27 PM
while at SMU, Sanders was suspended for the final two games of the 2008 season because he was late twice to study hall and another time to practice.

Interesting, I guess they were just giving the typical "he's a great person" spiel.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-11-2013, 02:27 PM
Well...It was only speculation but perhaps it had some roots. If Sanders goes to the Pats, only Brown will remain from the original "Young Money". So Wallace, Sanders, Lewis, & Saunders all pushed or allowed ot walk out the door. Maybe Young Money was more about the money than focus.

phillyesq
04-11-2013, 02:45 PM
Well...It was only speculation but perhaps it had some roots. If Sanders goes to the Pats, only Brown will remain from the original "Young Money". So Wallace, Sanders, Lewis, & Saunders all pushed or allowed ot walk out the door. Maybe Young Money was more about the money than focus.

Saw this on Sanders:

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2013/4/11/4210350/Steelers-Emmanuel-Sanders-Patriots-Twitter

Who knows what it means, but it could be that he and Wallace were both po'd and jealous and Brown getting paid first. Maybe just speculation, but who knows.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-11-2013, 02:56 PM
Saw this on Sanders:

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2013/4/11/4210350/Steelers-Emmanuel-Sanders-Patriots-Twitter

Who knows what it means, but it could be that he and Wallace were both po'd and jealous and Brown getting paid first. Maybe just speculation, but who knows.

That is the kind of flavor I heard about "some" in that crew. Very talented players...Not Steeler material. Best friend Benjamin.

They can all go find their Rack City...B!tch.

DukieBoy
04-11-2013, 03:16 PM
Listened to Bouchette's rationale for letting him go to the Pats, and it changed my perspective on this. Bouchette advocates letting him go and get the 3rd round pick, rather than sign him at risk for what might be one year and then he's gone for nothing in return.

Bouchette critiques in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... ???

hawaiiansteel
04-11-2013, 03:22 PM
Listened to Bouchette's rationale for letting him go to the Pats, and it changed my perspective on this. Bouchette advocates letting him go and get the 3rd round pick, rather than sign him at risk for what might be one year and then he's gone for nothing in return.

Bouchette critiques in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... ???

makes sense to me, especially if Sanders wants more money than the Steelers are willing to pay him.

Jooser
04-11-2013, 03:22 PM
It's sound logic, that's exactly what a lot of folks thought about Wallace last year, and guess what happened....

flippy
04-11-2013, 03:23 PM
makes sense to me, especially if Sanders wants more money than the Steelers are willing to pay him.

Given our track record recently, he'll probably be back in another year.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
04-11-2013, 03:49 PM
I'm not smart enough to know whether letting him go now in return for something of value, to avoid losing losing him next year and getting NOTHING in return, is the right move but ....

All I do know is Ben isn't getting any younger, and at some point we have to stop saying "manana/next year" and start saying "This year we start our 2-year plan for bringing Lombardi 7 home, at all costs ...".

Seems like the FO is just treading water, when we need to start sprinting now, or at least immediately after this last turn of the race that we're two strokes away from. I would feel much better if I had the feeling they were going to try their best to win SB 7 this year or next, rather than making "prudent" financial decisions. Maybe they are doing the right thing, and I'm too ignorant to see it, but I kind of see things going on now as being in the penny-wise/pound foolish mode.

Eich
04-11-2013, 03:54 PM
I'm not smart enough to know whether letting him go now in return for something of value, to avoid losing losing him next year and getting NOTHING in return, is the right move but ....

All I do know is Ben isn't getting any younger, and at some point we have to stop saying "manana/next year" and start saying "This year we start our 2-year plan for bringing Lombardi 7 home, at all costs ...".

Seems like the FO is just treading water, when we need to start sprinting now, or at least immediately after this last turn of the race that we're two strokes away from. I would feel much better if I had the feeling they were going to try their best to win SB 7 this year or next, rather than making "prudent" financial decisions. Maybe they are doing the right thing, and I'm too ignorant to see it, but I kind of see things going on now as being in the penny-wise/pound foolish mode.


While I see your point, what can we reallistically do given our cap situation? The cap dictates what teams can do. At some point, all the stuff we did over the past several years to get the rings we got has caught up and you have to rebuild at some point. Retaining Sanders won't be the difference between championship or not this next season. Getting someone from the draft has a chance at getting us someone better than Sanders.

Best we can hope for is that the rebuilding process happens while Ben still has gas left in the tank - and hope that we can find another franchise QB when Ben is gone.

Steelerphile
04-11-2013, 06:04 PM
Contract situations and money concerns crop up every year for the Steelers. I don't think they should override every other concern. I say sign him because it would not cost them a lot. If they have him one season and that is the way it works out then let the future take care of itself. I dislike the idea of always formulating your roster based on concerns about a future contract. Do what is best for the team today because most of you cannot predict how the future play out.

I think Sanders would be better for the team this year than a rookie or any of the FA names mentioned. It is a little speculative because so far he has not been a full-time starter. It is encouraging that Belicik thinks of him highly. He hasn't won all those games being a poor judge of talent. On this point, I agree with him.

Mister Pittsburgh
04-11-2013, 06:11 PM
Let him go! This is a deep draft and Tomlin/ Colbert have proven they can draft DB's and WR's. If we can somehow trade 1:17 to Miami for their two seconds, or trade down in the first with the Vikes for one of their two first rounders plus a third and fourth, then we could be in business. The Vikes may be eager to move up for a true impact player they covet, and the Phins are trying to level the playing field with the Pats. We could trade down in the first, draft Eifert who is a day one starter, and position ourselves to take advantage of this deep WR, RB, and S draft....3 areas we need, while still leaving picks to address other needs.

BURGH86STEEL
04-11-2013, 06:52 PM
Sure for this year, but we are talking about one year for Sanders vs four years for a third round pick. Sanders is a good player, but he is not elite and he has an extensive injury history. This is a really close call, imho. I'd probably let him walk.
Teams can plan for long term situations and short term situations. The Steelers have done well because they have short term and long term plans. Sanders can be in the plans for the Steelers and Pats in the short term or long term. Short term for one team this season. Sanders long term future will depend on how well he performs this season.

Teams never know what will get out of a 3rd round pick. Most 3rd round picks never become starters. The Steelers and Pats don't have 3 to 4 years to wait for a 3rd round pick to develop because of the situation at QB.

Big Ern McCracken
04-11-2013, 06:58 PM
I agree 100%. Sanders is poised for a breakout year... highly doubtful we'll get his kind of production out of a 3rd round pick, at least in the near term. If we are truley building for the future as some are implying, we should be keeping guys like sanders and lewis, and dumping guys like Ike Taylor and Troy.

supersteeler
04-11-2013, 07:09 PM
Is there any good news for our Steelers?

Mister Pittsburgh
04-11-2013, 07:12 PM
Teams can plan for long term situations and short term situations. The Steelers have done well because they have short term and long term plans. Sanders can be in the plans for the Steelers and Pats in the short term or long term. Short term for one team this season. Sanders long term future will depend on how well he performs this season.

Teams never know what will get out of a 3rd round pick. Most 3rd round picks never become starters. The Steelers and Pats don't have 3 to 4 years to wait for a 3rd round pick to develop because of the situation at QB.

Sanders value depends on Haley's (The Rooney's) plan for this offense. Bruce Arians is no longer here. We airing it out like his days with Arizona, or run heavy like KC? Probably somewhere in the middle. The way I see it is we are screwed either way.

Eddie Spaghetti
04-11-2013, 07:24 PM
I really hope the steelers take the pick.

sanders is a decent player, but he will never be an exceptional one. You can easily replace his production via FA and the draft. This team is not built for next year, so it makes even more sense to let him walk and thank the pats*** for hastening the roster makeover. I like sanders, but he hasn't shown enough to even warrant an extension and certainly not one with much guaranteed money.

this one is a no brainer, IMO.

RuthlessBurgher
04-11-2013, 07:49 PM
When the original rumors of a 1 year, $4 million deal with the Devil...err...I mean Patriots, was floating about, I thought it was a no brainer...let him go, gain a 3rd round pick and recoup the $1.3 million we were giving him as an RFA tender. Considering our cap woes, an extra $2.7 million to keep a guy for one more year wasn't worth it, considering that we were getting solid compensation in return.

However, now that we know it's a 1 year, $2.5 million deal, now it's more borderline. We are currently $2 million under the cap, so we wouldn't need to cut or restructure anyone in order to give Manny an extra $1.2 million to keep him around. Although that would only leave us with $800K worth of breathing space, we still have an extra $5 million to look forward to come June when Colon's money comes off the books (allowing us to be able to sign our draft class).

So, really it comes down to whether or not the front office feels that Sanders is a part of their future or not. If plans are to sign him long-term, then keep him (if you think about it...if Antonio Brown is worth $8 million per year, then Sanders is actually still somewhat of a bargain at $2.5 million). If the team thinks that he's more me-first than team-first, then you cut bait and get a quality day two pick in return. Truthfully, I won't be upset either way. I can understand the reasoning on both sides. We were going to have to decide whether or not Sanders was in our long-term plans or not next offseason anyway...New England's involvement just means that we get to make that same decision a year earlier, with the extra added bonus of a 3rd round pick if we decide to go in another direction.

If we do decide to let him go, here's another possibly option...good ol' Nate Washington. Tennessee signed him to a big money deal 4 years ago, but now they have Kenny Britt and Kendall Wright as their starters, so Nate is making too much to be a #3 guy. He's been shopped around, but there have been no takers at his salary, so he'll likely be cut loose after the draft if Tennessee picks a suitable #3 guy in the middle rounds. He's 29 years old and still has speed (averaged 16.2 yards per catch last year). He's not a volume receiver (in 3 out of his 4 years in Tennessee he had 40-something catches...with one 74 catch, 1023 yard season in 2011), but he does still have a knack for the big play (scoring 6, 6, 7, and 4 TD's in each of those season for the Titans).

My current mock (crafted before the Sanders RFA signing) is as follows:

1.17 Jarvis Jones, OLB, Georgia, 6'2" 245
2.48 DeAndre Hopkins, WR, Clemson, 6'1" 214
3.79 Philip Thomas, FS, Fresno State, 6'1" 208
4.115 Marcus Lattimore, RB, South Carolina, 5’11” 221
5.150 A.J. Klein, ILB, Iowa State, 6’1” 250
6.186 J.C. Tretter, OG, Cornell, 6'4" 307
6.206 (comp) Earl Wolff, SS, North Carolina State, 5'11" 209
7.223 Micah Hyde, CB, Iowa, 6’0” 197




If we let Manny go, then I would make the following minor change:

1.17 Jarvis Jones, OLB, Georgia, 6'2" 245
2.48 DeAndre Hopkins, WR, Clemson, 6'1" 214
3.79 Philip Thomas, FS, Fresno State, 6'1" 208
3.91 Barrett Jones, G/C, Alabama 6'5" 306
4.115 Marcus Lattimore, RB, South Carolina, 5’11” 221
5.150 A.J. Klein, ILB, Iowa State, 6’1” 250
6.186 Aaron Mellette, WR, Elon 6'3" 217
6.206 (comp) Earl Wolff, SS, North Carolina State, 5'11" 209
7.223 Micah Hyde, CB, Iowa, 6’0” 197

flippy
04-11-2013, 08:41 PM
I think this could be a good deal for both sides. Manny's not the type of WR that Ben needs. But pair up Manny with Tom Brady and I bet he looks like Marvin Harrison.

Can we just go get Ben a big WR like he asked for many years ago. It's like the Steelers don't want to do anything to make Ben happy. Does he need protection, nah. Does he need a big target, nah. Should we let him have an OC he likes, nah. Should we try to win more SuperBowls since we have a franchise QB, nah.

Oviedo
04-11-2013, 09:30 PM
I think this could be a good deal for both sides. Manny's not the type of WR that Ben needs. But pair up Manny with Tom Brady and I bet he looks like Marvin Harrison.

Can we just go get Ben a big WR like he asked for many years ago. It's like the Steelers don't want to do anything to make Ben happy. Does he need protection, nah. Does he need a big target, nah. Should we let him have an OC he likes, nah. Should we try to win more SuperBowls since we have a franchise QB, nah.

Big receiver = Eifert or Erntz

Sugar
04-11-2013, 09:36 PM
Is there any good news for our Steelers?

It doesn't seem so lately. My only comfort is that the greater the obstacles are, the greater the victory will be. Everybody is down on the Steelers right now. In the past, that has been when they have been the most dangerous. We'll get to see if that kind of fortitude still exists with this group.

Big Ern McCracken
04-12-2013, 05:38 AM
Hate to say it, but it's all going to come down to injuries again this year. There is still enough talent on that team (if healthy) to make a run deep into the playoffs.

Eich
04-12-2013, 08:01 AM
Hate to say it, but it's all going to come down to injuries again this year. There is still enough talent on that team (if healthy) to make a run deep into the playoffs.

I would really like to think that way, because it gives something to hope for on the season. And if Ben stays healthy for 16 games, who knows what he can pull off.

At the same time, I'm struggling with being optimistic for this season. We've lost so much that it seems like an impossible task. If Tomlin and the Steelers find a way to pull off any kind of playoff run (that doesn't involve a first round loss to Tebow), Tomlin will have earned a truckload of respect.

We've lost:
-Wallace
-Likely Sanders
-Heath probably won't be 100% for a while
-Max
-Colon (addition by subtraction here?)
-Mendenhall (another additoin by subtraction?)
-Harrison
-Lewis
-Hampton

We're going to look a LOT different come September.

Oviedo
04-12-2013, 08:22 AM
Is there any good news for our Steelers?

We'll likely have a Top 12 draft pick next year;)

Seriously, everyone just needs to embrace the idea this is a transition year to get a lot of things moving in the right direction like our cap problems and the age of the team. IMO 2013 isn't going to be a great year but it will set us up for the future which is what we need.

calmkiller
04-12-2013, 08:44 AM
We'll likely have a Top 12 draft pick next year;)

Seriously, everyone just needs to embrace the idea this is a transition year to get a lot of things moving in the right direction like our cap problems and the age of the team. IMO 2013 isn't going to be a great year but it will set us up for the future which is what we need.

Going down this line of thinking, How many more years does Ben play? 6 or less? When do we really start thinking about the next great Steeler QB?

supersteeler
04-12-2013, 09:07 AM
We'll likely have a Top 12 draft pick next year;)

Seriously, everyone just needs to embrace the idea this is a transition year to get a lot of things moving in the right direction like our cap problems and the age of the team. IMO 2013 isn't going to be a great year but it will set us up for the future which is what we need.

This may be more than a one year transition as it takes time for draft picks to develope, and in the meantime the eventual departure of Clark,Troy,Keisel,Taylor to name a few. We may not be able to replace all these players fast enough while Ben is aging.
If we wind up getting a top 12 pick in the draft next year, I would think it would be the right time to get our future QB.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-12-2013, 09:29 AM
When the original rumors of a 1 year, $4 million deal with the Devil...err...I mean Patriots, was floating about, I thought it was a no brainer...let him go, gain a 3rd round pick and recoup the $1.3 million we were giving him as an RFA tender. Considering our cap woes, an extra $2.7 million to keep a guy for one more year wasn't worth it, considering that we were getting solid compensation in return.

However, now that we know it's a 1 year, $2.5 million deal, now it's more borderline. We are currently $2 million under the cap, so we wouldn't need to cut or restructure anyone in order to give Manny an extra $1.2 million to keep him around. Although that would only leave us with $800K worth of breathing space, we still have an extra $5 million to look forward to come June when Colon's money comes off the books (allowing us to be able to sign our draft class).

So, really it comes down to whether or not the front office feels that Sanders is a part of their future or not. If plans are to sign him long-term, then keep him (if you think about it...if Antonio Brown is worth $8 million per year, then Sanders is actually still somewhat of a bargain at $2.5 million). If the team thinks that he's more me-first than team-first, then you cut bait and get a quality day two pick in return. Truthfully, I won't be upset either way. I can understand the reasoning on both sides. We were going to have to decide whether or not Sanders was in our long-term plans or not next offseason anyway...New England's involvement just means that we get to make that same decision a year earlier, with the extra added bonus of a 3rd round pick if we decide to go in another direction.

If we do decide to let him go, here's another possibly option...good ol' Nate Washington. Tennessee signed him to a big money deal 4 years ago, but now they have Kenny Britt and Kendall Wright as their starters, so Nate is making too much to be a #3 guy. He's been shopped around, but there have been no takers at his salary, so he'll likely be cut loose after the draft if Tennessee picks a suitable #3 guy in the middle rounds. He's 29 years old and still has speed (averaged 16.2 yards per catch last year). He's not a volume receiver (in 3 out of his 4 years in Tennessee he had 40-something catches...with one 74 catch, 1023 yard season in 2011), but he does still have a knack for the big play (scoring 6, 6, 7, and 4 TD's in each of those season for the Titans).

My current mock (crafted before the Sanders RFA signing) is as follows:
1.17 Jarvis Jones, OLB, Georgia, 6'2" 245
2.48 DeAndre Hopkins, WR, Clemson, 6'1" 214
3.79 Philip Thomas, FS, Fresno State, 6'1" 208
4.115 Marcus Lattimore, RB, South Carolina, 5’11” 221
5.150 A.J. Klein, ILB, Iowa State, 6’1” 250
6.186 J.C. Tretter, OG, Cornell, 6'4" 307
6.206 (comp) Earl Wolff, SS, North Carolina State, 5'11" 209
7.223 Micah Hyde, CB, Iowa, 6’0” 197




If we let Manny go, then I would make the following minor change:
1.17 Jarvis Jones, OLB, Georgia, 6'2" 245
2.48 DeAndre Hopkins, WR, Clemson, 6'1" 214
3.79 Philip Thomas, FS, Fresno State, 6'1" 208
3.91 Barrett Jones, G/C, Alabama 6'5" 306
4.115 Marcus Lattimore, RB, South Carolina, 5’11” 221
5.150 A.J. Klein, ILB, Iowa State, 6’1” 250
6.186 Aaron Mellette, WR, Elon 6'3" 217
6.206 (comp) Earl Wolff, SS, North Carolina State, 5'11" 209
7.223 Micah Hyde, CB, Iowa, 6’0” 197



You are 100% right...It is about if the Steelers plans are long term with Sanders. They need to ask themsleves, if Sanders has a70/1,100 6TDs year, Will they try and retain him? If the answer is yes..You consider matching. But here is my twist to the whole situation. Year 1 has to match the offer sheet. If they want him in the long term plans...You bring him in NOW and set him & his agent down. Before you match you talk about an extension this year. You know the Pats have done this based upon the 1 year offer sheet. You see where they are right now before the 2013 season for a long term extension. See where they draw the line now and you will have a better idea of the "If we can afford him" part. Maybe the Pats devalued him and if the staff has great confidence in him...The Steelers can do the long term and get him at a bargain. Might be worth the risk. The other side of the process would be you can see if the Pats inflated his value even before his 2013 season. In this case, even though you want Sanders long term...You may now know you won't be able to come to terms & you don't match. Take the pick.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-12-2013, 09:44 AM
I agree 100%. Sanders is poised for a breakout year... highly doubtful we'll get his kind of production out of a 3rd round pick, at least in the near term. If we are truley building for the future as some are implying, we should be keeping guys like sanders and lewis, and dumping guys like Ike Taylor and Troy.

Offensive skill players can get on the field faster once they get the playbook down. That 3rd round pick isn't the replacement necessarily. They could use a 1st or 2nd too. Just consider this. Holmes was a 1st and came in and played in 16 games starting 4 with 49/824 his rookie year. Wallace was a 3rd and came in and played in 16 games starting 4 with 39/756 his rookie year. Sanders a 3rd pitched in 28/376 his rookie year. You can get production from a rookie WR...If you don't miss. You are correct, if Sanders stays healthy this should be his most produtive year to date. The hinge to all of this is where he fits in next year regardless of what he does in 2013. If he isn't in their plans...They need to take the pick and just move on a year earlier. The odds are good that a vet FA and/or Rookie will give you equal production in 2013 and you get compensation for your lost investment.

Oviedo
04-12-2013, 09:48 AM
Offensive skill players can get on the field faster once they get the playbook down. That 3rd round pick isn't the replacement necessarily. They could use a 1st or 2nd too. Just consider this. Holmes was a 1st and came in and played in 16 games starting 4 with 49/824 his rookie year. Wallace was a 3rd and came in and played in 16 games starting 4 with 39/756 his rookie year. Sanders a 3rd pitched in 28/376 his rookie year. You can get production from a rookie WR...If you don't miss. You are correct, if Sanders stays healthy this should be his most produtive year to date. The hinge to all of this is where he fits in next year regardless of what he does in 2013. If he isn't in their plans...They need to take the pick and just move on a year earlier. The odds are good that a vet FA and/or Rookie will give you equal production in 2013 and you get compensation for your lost investment.

Defensive players should be able to get on the field early too. They do it all over the NFL. Only one person is preventing that from happening in Pittsburgh.

Jooser
04-12-2013, 09:59 AM
Defensive players should be able to get on the field early too. They do it all over the NFL. Only one person is preventing that from happening in Pittsburgh.


Playing Fantasy Football does not qualify you to be the in the front office or on the coaching staff of the Pittsburgh Steelers. They are professionals and you are not!

'nuff said.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-12-2013, 10:15 AM
Defensive players should be able to get on the field early too. They do it all over the NFL. Only one person is preventing that from happening in Pittsburgh.

They do around the NFL but there are some plugged in early who don't do anything and some that watch from the sideline. A one gap DL can get on the field because when he picks up the play book he can pin his ears back & go. Then many will jump on the "GO to 4-3" argument then. For as easy as it is to get those DL on the field it is difficult to find the LBs behind them. Look at the Steelers roster. They have one NFL caliber 4-3 LB who would excel. The next closest thing to a 4-3 LB on the roster is Rolle and he didn't play a snap for the Steelers. If & when Spence gets healthy you may have another but you see the process.

If there no "star" in front of them...Steelers Defensive players aren't getting on the field because the can't grasp assignment. Yes...It has alot to do with the DL scheme but that is just the reality of it. Will Butler's D be the same if he is the next man? Who knows. Many should have seen an example of it last year when Victorian & Golden were forced on to the field. Yes they were both undrafted and there were better athletes on the sideline. But apparently they were the furthest along with the DL IQ and there were many times you could see they were caught thinking on plays. The issue won't be forced because the drop off in production can't be recovered. DL would rather have 11 guys on the field in the right place at the right time than 11 great athletes not knowing where to be. The dreaded DL "BE safe than sorry" Defense. It keeps working not matter how many times we throw dirt on him.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-12-2013, 10:17 AM
'nuff said.
If you are referring to me Jooser I never played fantasy football in my life. 'nuff said

phillyesq
04-12-2013, 10:59 AM
Defensive players should be able to get on the field early too. They do it all over the NFL. Only one person is preventing that from happening in Pittsburgh.

There is a very simple reason why offensive players see the field earlier. When you run multiple WR sets, there are more opportunities for WRs to see the field early. For, example, an OLB, there are fewer defensive formations with multiple OLBs. And you are not going to sit guys like Woodley and Harrison to play somebody before they are young.

You repeat the same crap in every thread (this one about a WR), but you've never once provided a scintilla of support for your positions, which you state as known facts. To the contrary, you repeatedly ignore that young players who adapt early and show they are ready (like Cortez Allen) play early.

steelblood
04-12-2013, 11:10 AM
You are 100% right...It is about if the Steelers plans are long term with Sanders. They need to ask themsleves, if Sanders has a70/1,100 6TDs year, Will they try and retain him? If the answer is yes..You consider matching. But here is my twist to the whole situation. Year 1 has to match the offer sheet. If they want him in the long term plans...You bring him in NOW and set him & his agent down. Before you match you talk about an extension this year. You know the Pats have done this based upon the 1 year offer sheet. You see where they are right now before the 2013 season for a long term extension. See where they draw the line now and you will have a better idea of the "If we can afford him" part. Maybe the Pats devalued him and if the staff has great confidence in him...The Steelers can do the long term and get him at a bargain. Might be worth the risk. The other side of the process would be you can see if the Pats inflated his value even before his 2013 season. In this case, even though you want Sanders long term...You may now know you won't be able to come to terms & you don't match. Take the pick.

Problem is that if Sanders has a great year, the Steelers won't be able to afford him.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-12-2013, 11:10 AM
Interesting thing on Twitter. Bouchette posted something on Sulia that refered to Sanders as a "Lame Duck" if they match & not extend.

http://sulia.com/channel/pittsburgh-steelers/f/63574b63-c7c8-4805-af23-0727fee0b191/?source=twitter

Sanders Tweet:

Emmanuel Sanders‏@E_Sanders8817h (http://www.planetsteelers.com/E_Sanders88/status/322458004458991618)Lame duck huh? lol ok... JUST DISRESPECTFUL �� RT @EdBouchette (http://www.planetsteelers.com/EdBouchette): reasons #Steelers (http://www.planetsteelers.com/search?q=%23Steelers&src=hash) should let #Patriots (http://www.planetsteelers.com/search?q=%23Patriots&src=hash) have Sanders :http://sulia.com/my_thoughts/63574b63-c7c8-4805-af23-0727fee0b191/?source=twitter … (http://t.co/gSigyFymK6)

Jooser
04-12-2013, 11:17 AM
If you are referring to me Jooser I never played fantasy football in my life. 'nuff said

I didn't quote you and I'm not referring to you.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-12-2013, 11:51 AM
I didn't quote you and I'm not referring to you.

Quted a reponse to me...Thought you were. My Bad.

phillyesq
04-12-2013, 12:28 PM
Clayton is reporting that there is a split in the FO re: Sanders:


John Clayton ‏@ClaytonESPN 8m (http://www.planetsteelers.com/ClaytonESPN/status/322744395260637187) Steelers are 50-50 whether to match Emmanuel Sanders offer sheet. Some in org. want the 3rd round pick. Others want the player.


I hope this comes down on the side of the pick.

I would much rather have the pick and the extra cap space (to be used for, perhaps, Breaston and Bradshaw) than one year of a player who is likely to be disgruntled. Sanders will either play well and price himself out of the Steelers range or continue to perform at his current level (subpar #2, average #3) in which case, he is easily replaceable. If he isn't part of the long term plans, move on now and get something for him.

thor75
04-12-2013, 12:41 PM
Clayton is reporting that there is a split in the FO re: Sanders:



I hope this comes down on the side of the pick.

I would much rather have the pick and the extra cap space (to be used for, perhaps, Breaston and Bradshaw) than one year of a player who is likely to be disgruntled. Sanders will either play well and price himself out of the Steelers range or continue to perform at his current level (subpar #2, average #3) in which case, he is easily replaceable. If he isn't part of the long term plans, move on now and get something for him.

I'm also leaning on that side. At least you get something in return. I'm fine with Cotchery, I think he has reliable hands and would not be a huge dropoff. I'm not sold on Breaston or Bradshaw. I'll let the FO decide on that. I'm on the fence with both.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-12-2013, 12:56 PM
Problem is that if Sanders has a great year, the Steelers won't be able to afford him.

Which is what I said.

steelblood
04-12-2013, 02:22 PM
Which is what I said.
wait. Am I supposed to read your entire text AND understand your point?


:)

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-12-2013, 02:35 PM
wait. Am I supposed to read your entire text AND understand your point?


:)

No...We should just agree on everything since we been here so long. Save us time & lots of typing & reading.
;)

flippy
04-12-2013, 04:06 PM
Clayton is reporting that there is a split in the FO re: Sanders:



I hope this comes down on the side of the pick.

I would much rather have the pick and the extra cap space (to be used for, perhaps, Breaston and Bradshaw) than one year of a player who is likely to be disgruntled. Sanders will either play well and price himself out of the Steelers range or continue to perform at his current level (subpar #2, average #3) in which case, he is easily replaceable. If he isn't part of the long term plans, move on now and get something for him.


If the coaches want him, he's gone. If the front office wants him, then he'll stay. I think there's this unspoken FU to Tomlin and staff like there's been toward Ben for the last few years.

Everyone seems to think Wally and Mendy were the disgruntled locker room cancers. But I'm starting to think there's a bigger cancer and it's between the owner, coaches, and Ben. This team chemistry thing is bigger than the players. And it might turn out ok with old man Rooney back his break in Ireland.

I don't think it's just a coincidence that things starts busting apart at the seams when he left.

Big Ern McCracken
04-12-2013, 04:56 PM
Philly, I understand your thoughts on the extra cap space... and the lame duck scenario. I'm not sure if a number quality #2 receiver is easily replaced though in the near term..especially with what they are getting in return (#3 rd draft pick).

Lots of interesting conversation in this thread. Been enjoyable to follow.

grotonsteel
04-12-2013, 05:03 PM
I don't mind a 3rd pick but my biggest worry is Big Ben will have only AB84, Cotchery and Plex as WR....He will have to develop chemistry with rookie WRs again...

Also he won't have Heath at the start of the season....Plus a new LT....

Rb scenario is in big limbo

Too many changes on the offensive side...

AkronSteel
04-12-2013, 05:21 PM
The more I think about this situation, the more I lean toward letting Manny walk to New England. The Steelers would basically be renting a player for a year because if he has a solid season the Steelers will not be able to retain him anyway. They have extensions coming up the are going to be needed for Ben, Pouncey, Allen, McClendon, Hood and Miller if healthy. Where in the pecking order would Manny actually fall in that scenario? Obviously now WR becomes much more of a need and would probably be our first round pick. I would take Allen or Hopkins to be honest and then get a safety in the 2nd. Then the Steelers can add a RB and OL in the third, plus another WR later on. If the Steelers have a good draft this move could really help.

phillyesq
04-12-2013, 06:05 PM
Philly, I understand your thoughts on the extra cap space... and the lame duck scenario. I'm not sure if a number quality #2 receiver is easily replaced though in the near term..especially with what they are getting in return (#3 rd draft pick).

Lots of interesting conversation in this thread. Been enjoyable to follow.

I understand that perspective, but I'm not sure that I see Sanders as a quality #2. In the games that Brown was out (and his game as a co-starter), here are his stats:

2 rec, 30 yards
3 rec, 82 yards
5 rec, 75 yards
5 rec, 60 yards

Looking at that, I'm underwhelmed. And looking at his career stats, no 100 yard games. During the rest of 2013, he did not exceed 5 catches or 56 yards. He just has not produced at a level where I think he will be difficult to replace. With just about any rookie or with Cotchery/Burress, there is likely to be a dropoff to some extent early in the year, but I don't think it is anything that cannot be overcome. I guess I just don't see Sanders as a difference maker at all.

Big Ern McCracken
04-12-2013, 06:26 PM
Doesn't look like too bad of stats to me.. Sanders has shown some flashes of greatness in his young career. Will take longer than a year to replace him in my opinion...especially with Wallace gone. I wouldn't be so worried about it if we had depth at the position..

Rara
04-12-2013, 06:48 PM
Think of it this way, for those who oppose giving Sanders away...it frees up cap space to sign free agents (such as Ahmad Bradshaw, Steve Breaston, ect.) AND gives an extra third rounder..so just draft Steadman Bailey..boom. We are getting more out of getting rid of Sanders instead of keeping him.

Big Ern McCracken
04-12-2013, 07:19 PM
Think of it this way, for those who oppose giving Sanders away...it frees up cap space to sign free agents (such as Ahmad Bradshaw, Steve Breaston, ect.) AND gives an extra third rounder..so just draft Steadman Bailey..boom. We are getting more out of getting rid of Sanders instead of keeping him.

Those are possibilities. I guess we'll know a year from now whether it worked out lol

Eddie Spaghetti
04-12-2013, 07:26 PM
when has sanders shown "flashes of greatness"?

he has been a decent player, but nothing special.

Big Ern McCracken
04-12-2013, 07:50 PM
Special enough for New England to want to sign him.

Eddie Spaghetti
04-12-2013, 08:21 PM
that doesn't cut a lot of ice with me. Says more about their strike outs at WR and losing welker. Also, they are built to contend now more so than the steelers. The move makes sense for them in that regard.

sanders isnt special and very easily replaced.

Big Ern McCracken
04-12-2013, 09:11 PM
that doesn't cut a lot of ice with me. Says more about their strike outs at WR and losing welker. Also, they are built to contend now more so than the steelers. The move makes sense for them in that regard.

sanders isnt special and very easily replaced.

I guess time will tell. I think you are overstating things by saying he'll be easily replaced. Let's see what kind of numbers he's able to put up with Brady this year... and have this conversation in early 2014.

Eddie Spaghetti
04-12-2013, 09:32 PM
and I think you are grossly overstating sanders when you say he has shown flashes of greatness.

SidSmythe
04-12-2013, 09:40 PM
I was a huge SANDERS fan until last season and his 2 costly fumbles (especially the Ravens game). I started to question his BIG TIME/BIG GAME ability in light of his "Flashes of greatness"

Chadman
04-13-2013, 12:50 AM
If the coaches want him, he's gone. If the front office wants him, then he'll stay. I think there's this unspoken FU to Tomlin and staff like there's been toward Ben for the last few years.

Everyone seems to think Wally and Mendy were the disgruntled locker room cancers. But I'm starting to think there's a bigger cancer and it's between the owner, coaches, and Ben. This team chemistry thing is bigger than the players. And it might turn out ok with old man Rooney back his break in Ireland.

I don't think it's just a coincidence that things starts busting apart at the seams when he left.

Flippy- this sounds dangerously close to what Crashiggy used to say (although, far more confrontationally), and what Chadman suggested earlier this off season when nearly everyone on here wanted to put the foot into Wallace & call him the biggest problem this team had.

For Chadman- and this is opinion only based on rumours & media reporting- The FO wanted Bruce Arians gone in 2011. Tomlin went in to bat for him, and pulled a rabbit out of the hat in order to keep Arians around. Why the FO wanted Arians out in 2011 is not decided, but there was plenty of speculation that it was the case. Was it because of the whole "Ben is getting bigger than the team" theory, and the FO thought that by removing Arians, they might control Ben & his ego/locker room power easier? Perhaps. But we won't know for sure, ever. It was also being widely reported that Rooney wanted a stronger reliance on the run game in Pittsburgh.

In 2012, the "Arians issue" came up again, and this time Arians was removed, much the the mostly aknowledged chagrin of Ben, but also the rumoured/reported chagrin of Tomlin, who didn't want him gone. Let's face it, at the sign-off of the 2011 season, Tomlin said to the media he didn't forsee ANY changes to his coaching staff, even after reporters asked him directly about Arians.

Todd Haley is brought in- a renowned confrontationalist- presumably to 'keep Ben in line'. Now, for Chadman- Haley is about as innocent a victim as we are likely to see. He's walked into a team that didn't want the old OC gone, and now looks to be facing not only a QB who isn't happy with him, but possibly a HC as well. Add to that what appeared to be a few other key Offensive players not buying the system, for whatever reasons.

During 2012 we had a few concerning issues- the Wallace non-contract, and the subsequent signing of Antonio Brown- arguably a direct FU to Wallace for not signing what the FO thought was reasonable (after all, Brown wasn't even an UFA or RFA at that point). Ben was continually talking to the papers about Haley's offense- not necessarily attacking it, but always bringing it up- making it an issue. The lack of ball control on the field spoke volumes to the level of dedication from the players. The "Cleveland Fumble-a-thon Debacle" was the pinnacle of our Steelers lack of dedication in 2012, and in what is STILL a confusing, head-scratching decision, the team elects to 'rest' (read- punish) Rashard Mendenhall (2 fumbles vs Browns) in the next game, but lets other offenders- Antonio Brown, Jonathan Dwyer, Issac Redman, Manny Sanders & Chris Rainey- off without any sort of 'rest' (punishment). Then we have an 'unnamed source' bagging Woodley's conditioning. Then we have Ryan Clark calling out the 'unnamed source'. Then poster-boy Brown tells the media the locker-room is fractured, only for his GM Kevin Colbert to then tell the media that Brown is wrong.

Guys that Tomlin brought in & relied on- Wallace, Mendenahall, Lewis- are let go in FA without an offer extended to them by the Steelers. And now with Sanders potentially leaving, we have poster-boy coming out to the media, essentially telling everyone Sanders is gone because he isn't doing things the way the Steelers like players to do things. Nice way to tip the hat to every other club.

Chadman thinks Flippy is right- there is something not right between the FO & Coaches, and that is filtering down throughout the rest of the team. Maybe Old Man Rooney can sort it out, because like Crashiggy, chadman has doubts about the younger Rooney's ability to let football men make football decisions.

BradshawsHairdresser
04-13-2013, 01:43 AM
IMHO, Chadman, Flippy, Crashiggy, et al, are drumming up drama where there is none. The FO is at odds with Tomlin? Art is taking over the football operations? The only reason we're hearing this kind of stuff is because the team went 8-8 and missed the playoffs (well, we'd likely hear it from Crashiggy regardless).

Arians was shipped out because the O was underperforming. It was time for a change. Tomlin himself said he was down with the decision. I don't think he's a liar. Jury is out as to whether Haley will do any better than BA, but he gets one more season to prove himself.

Chadman
04-13-2013, 04:37 AM
IMHO, Chadman, Flippy, Crashiggy, et al, are drumming up drama where there is none. The FO is at odds with Tomlin? Art is taking over the football operations? The only reason we're hearing this kind of stuff is because the team went 8-8 and missed the playoffs (well, we'd likely hear it from Crashiggy regardless).

Arians was shipped out because the O was underperforming. It was time for a change. Tomlin himself said he was down with the decision. I don't think he's a liar. Jury is out as to whether Haley will do any better than BA, but he gets one more season to prove himself.

Yeah, but your version is dull and only reuses Chadman's clever amalgamation of Crash's multiple personalities.

Big Ern McCracken
04-13-2013, 07:09 AM
and I think you are grossly overstating sanders when you say he has shown flashes of greatness.

Not really. If you remember... Sanders cracked the lineup prior to Antonio Brown. Brown started getting his reps when Sanders went down with an injury. Sanders has made some great plays for this team, and has shown the "Flashes" that I spoke of. Whether or not he is easily replaceable is yet to be seen. Talent wise, the steelers may be able to find someone this year... as far as learning the system and getting reps with offense (to be productive)... not as likely.

Big Ern McCracken
04-13-2013, 07:12 AM
I was a huge SANDERS fan until last season and his 2 costly fumbles (especially the Ravens game). I started to question his BIG TIME/BIG GAME ability in light of his "Flashes of greatness"

I agree.. he had a costly turnover or two... Same could be said for Antonio Brown, Ben throwing the two game ending pics late in the season... the combined 7-8 turnovers against Cleveland.. I don't think eny of them are exempt from the turnover deal.

Sugar
04-13-2013, 08:20 AM
I agree.. he had a costly turnover or two... Same could be said for Antonio Brown, Ben throwing the two game ending pics late in the season... the combined 7-8 turnovers against Cleveland.. I don't think eny of them are exempt from the turnover deal.
I could be wrong, but I think many are thinking of the turnover to touch ratio. Manny would have had fewer touches than AB, but still the same amount of turnovers. Obviously Ben touches the ball more than anyone, so he is more likely to have at least a few mistakes.

Big Ern McCracken
04-13-2013, 08:35 AM
agree with your thoughts on Ben... still doesn't excuse the piss poor decision making late in the year that cost us a shot in the playoffs. We should get more production/better decision making in those situations out of a 9 year vet.

Was not making any comparisions on the turnover to touch ratio... simply stating that they are all prone to turnovers.

DBR96A
04-13-2013, 08:48 AM
Jury is out as to whether Haley will do any better than BA, but he gets one more season to prove himself.
Every new coordinator deserves at least three seasons to prove himself, especially if his system is vastly different from the old one. During the first season, all the new coordinator can do is make a couple of draft picks and spend time figuring out the strengths and weaknesses of his players relative to his system. It's not until the second season that he can really put his fingerprints on the team, because he'll have two drafts to get the kinds of players he wants, and also get rid of those who he considers unsuitable for his system. By the third season, his unit of the team will have matured into what he wanted all along.

Consider Dom Capers as the defensive coordinator for the Packers. He was inheriting a stout 4-3 defense that was good enough to help the Packers finish 13-3 and get to the NFC Championship Game in 2007. Capers is a 3-4 defensive coordinator, though, so a fundamental change in the offense was inevitable. During his first season (2008), the defense regressed dramatically, and was the primary reason the Packers fell to 6-10. But by his second season (2009), the defense rebounded after he was able to acquire more of the players he wanted and get rid of the guys who were incapable of playing in a 3-4 defense. The Packers had solidified the defense enough that they finished 11-5 and made the playoffs again. By the third season (2010), the defense was now entirely his, and it was one of the best, most opportunistic defenses in the NFL that season, and they won Super Bowl XLV. (The only reason it's regressed since is because they miss Nick Collins and need to find a new FS.)

This off-season is Todd Haley's time to mold the offense more to his liking. As we can see based on the amount of roster turnover on offense, there are many players who weren't good fits for his, and they're all gone now. Four of them were starters. Any time you have four starters who aren't a good fit for an offense (or a defense, for that matter), it's probably going to be inconsistent, just as the Steelers offense was last season. Let's see how it does now that Haley's taking a more active role in shaping it.

supersteeler
04-13-2013, 09:43 AM
If the Steelers intend to keep Sanders wouldn't it be better to give him a long term deal now than just match the offer sheet of N.E.?
They could reduce his base pay through a signing bonus so it wouldn't effect the cap as much right?
We could probably work out a long term deal now that would be less than it would cost next season especially if he has a strong year, and maintain some stability in the receiver corps.

Jooser
04-13-2013, 10:02 AM
Roethlisberger reportedly wants Steelers to keep Sanders

Posted by Mike Florio on April 12, 2013, 8:18 PM EDT
http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/roethlisberger.jpg?w=250
Getty Images
Already, there are plenty of good reasons (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/12/steelers-shouldnt-match-offer-for-sanders/) for the Steelers to not match the one-year, $2.5 million offer sheet signed by receiverEmmanuel Sanders (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5885/emmanuel-sanders) with the Patriots.
Here’s another: Ben Roethlisberger (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/1181/ben-roethlisberger) wants the Steelers to match.
According to Jason La Canfora of CBSSports.com, Roethlisberger has been lobbying (https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/status/322853589640945664) coach Mike Tomlin and members of the coaching staff to keep Sanders. That’s fine, but Roethlisberger isn’t the General Manager, or anyone else in a position of influence when it comes to personnel.
Roethlisberger had lobbied for a tall receiver (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2008/10/18/a-sweed-debut/) for years, pissing off in the process vertically-challenged (but highly skilled) pass catchers like Hines Ward. (The Steelers eventually burned a second-round pick Limas Sweed, who was long on body but short on talent.)
Roethlisberger also wanted to keep offensive coordinator Bruce Arians, whom the Steelers “retired” in 2012. Arians became the offensive coordinator in Indy, the interim head coach when Chuck Pagano was undergoing cancer treatments, and ultimately the 2012 Associated Press coach of the year.

Then again, maybe the Steelers should listen to everything Roethlisberger suggests.

Guess we know where Ben's lot of the 50/50 ballot is....

BradshawsHairdresser
04-13-2013, 10:11 AM
Yeah, but your version is dull and only reuses Chadman's clever amalgamation of Crash's multiple personalities.
:DGot me there...

By the way, whatever happened to Crashiggy, anyways? Seems as though he likes to show up for two or three weeks, then he's gone for months... Don't always agree with him, but he keeps the board lively...

DukieBoy
04-13-2013, 10:12 AM
These last several posts have been quality discussion, what this board has been built upon and what has made it so good.

Seems to me that when Hines, Farrior, and Smith left, that leadership at the team level being gone, and with a change in the offense at OC and the new schemes, the lid came off with some of these young money players, especially at WR. It seemed to me that the sense of commitment and "all in" gave way to some "me first" attitude and behavior. The players own some of this, and so does the HC and his staff.

My point of view is that Tomlin and the coaching staff (particularly the HC) have done a mediocre job of managing the young players. Mendenhall, while he offended the values and sensibilities of people with his twitter posts and some other behaviors of questionable judgement, was (is) a young player who was not well managed or developed by he coaches. I think the Mendenhall would thrive in the zone blocking scheme that is to be implemented this season.

Mendy's offenses seem small to me, compared with Ta'amu's offenses. One is gone and one is still on the team.

Also, I think if the FO valued the opinions of the coaching staff sufficiently, and if to coaching staff is competent, they could have seen what they had in Keenan Lewis and locked him into a long-term deal at what would now seem like a bargain price before the beginning of last season. This could apply to Mike Wallace two years back, and maybe to Sanders, too. All those players could help us this year, and in years to come. Now we will have to draft to replace some of them.

Following the exodus of young talent, they best find ways to lock in the good young talent that remains (Cortez Allen in particular), or we could be looking up at three teams in our division for some years to come.

:2c

BradshawsHairdresser
04-13-2013, 10:18 AM
If the Steelers intend to keep Sanders wouldn't it be better to give him a long term deal now than just match the offer sheet of N.E.?
They could reduce his base pay through a signing bonus so it wouldn't effect the cap as much right?
We could probably work out a long term deal now that would be less than it would cost next season especially if he has a strong year, and maintain some stability in the receiver corps.
I would think the Steelers ought to be able to sign him to a reasonable long-term deal...the question is, do they want to? I think it would be a smart move. A receiver with his strengths should be a vital piece of Haley's offense.

flippy
04-13-2013, 10:19 AM
Guess we know where Ben's lot of the 50/50 ballot is....

Ben wanting someone to stay is the nail in the coffin for that player. Although we can always get him back in a year if he Ocho Stinkos it up in NE.

Rara
04-13-2013, 10:58 AM
These last several posts have been quality discussion, what this board has been built upon and what has made it so good.

Seems to me that when Hines, Farrior, and Smith left, that leadership at the team level being gone, and with a change in the offense at OC and the new schemes, the lid came off with some of these young money players, especially at WR. It seemed to me that the sense of commitment and "all in" gave way to some "me first" attitude and behavior. The players own some of this, and so does the HC and his staff.

My point of view is that Tomlin and the coaching staff (particularly the HC) have done a mediocre job of managing the young players. Mendenhall, while he offended the values and sensibilities of people with his twitter posts and some other behaviors of questionable judgement, was (is) a young player who was not well managed or developed by he coaches. I think the Mendenhall would thrive in the zone blocking scheme that is to be implemented this season.

Mendy's offenses seem small to me, compared with Ta'amu's offenses. One is gone and one is still on the team.

Also, I think if the FO valued the opinions of the coaching staff sufficiently, and if to coaching staff is competent, they could have seen what they had in Keenan Lewis and locked him into a long-term deal at what would now seem like a bargain price before the beginning of last season. This could apply to Mike Wallace two years back, and maybe to Sanders, too. All those players could help us this year, and in years to come. Now we will have to draft to replace some of them.

Following the exodus of young talent, they best find ways to lock in the good young talent that remains (Cortez Allen in particular), or we could be looking up at three teams in our division for some years to come.

:2c


I just don't get why players like Keisel, Foote, Roethlisberger even...haven't stepped up and try to take leadership. They are ones that should be.

supersteeler
04-13-2013, 11:40 AM
It looks like most fans favor getting N.E.'s third round pick while the Steelers decide the case to keep him or let him walk.
Having another pick in the third round may look appealing on the surface but I'm not sure it's the best way to go at this point since we already are thin at the WR spot.

By retaining Sanders we have an experinced WR who knows the system as opposed to relying on a rookie, Plax, and Cotchery plus opposing defenses will try and put double coverage on Brown and take him out of the offense much like they did when we had Wallace.
Remember, Cotchery and Plax haven't had much playing tme in Haley's offense and if defenses are successful taking Brown out of the offense it's going to be difficult maintaining consistency.

Maybe I'm alone here but I would like to see the Steelers work out a long term deal and have some stability at that position.

BradshawsHairdresser
04-13-2013, 12:02 PM
I just don't get why players like Keisel, Foote, Roethlisberger even...haven't stepped up and try to take leadership. They are ones that should be.
Maybe the players you mentioned aren't as good at leading as those who've departed...perhaps they don't command enough respect...it could be that they're not cut out to be leaders...or even that they just don't want to be leaders...

I don't think leadership is something you can force on a player, or necessarily expect from him because of his talent, seniority, or experience...otherwise, Troy Polamalu ought to be a team leader...but I don't think he is.

DBR96A
04-13-2013, 04:41 PM
Guess we know where Ben's lot of the 50/50 ballot is....
Mike Florio is a ****ing punk.

Big Ern McCracken
04-13-2013, 05:13 PM
It looks like most fans favor getting N.E.'s third round pick while the Steelers decide the case to keep him or let him walk.
Having another pick in the third round may look appealing on the surface but I'm not sure it's the best way to go at this point since we already are thin at the WR spot.

By retaining Sanders we have an experinced WR who knows the system as opposed to relying on a rookie, Plax, and Cotchery plus opposing defenses will try and put double coverage on Brown and take him out of the offense much like they did when we had Wallace.
Remember, Cotchery and Plax haven't had much playing tme in Haley's offense and if defenses are successful taking Brown out of the offense it's going to be difficult maintaining consistency.

Maybe I'm alone here but I would like to see the Steelers work out a long term deal and have some stability at that position.

You're not alone with that assessment by any means.

supersteeler
04-13-2013, 05:37 PM
Williamson on Sanders offer sheet
April, 13, 2013


"In the end, I feel like the Steelers lose either way and the Patriots win either way," Williamson told host Stan Savran.

Williamson touched on how Sanders played two-thirds of his snaps in the slot for the Steelers, but that's not necessarily where the Patriots would line him up on a majority of snaps. That's part of what makes the offer sheet intriguing.

As for the Steelers potentially matching the offer sheet, Williamson said it will speak volumes about how the team views itself.

"We know the Patriots think of themselves as a contender. Clearly, in my opinion, the Patriots and Broncos are ahead of everybody else in the AFC by a substantial margin, and Baltimore is probably third still. Pittsburgh, I don't think, is in that top echelon," Williamson said.

"But I think the AFC is very weak [so] I wouldn't blame [general manager] Kevin [Colbert] and Co. at all if they said 'we have as good a chance as anyone to go to the playoffs next year. We still have Ben. We can't allow two starting receivers to leave in the same year and put that much on Ben, and Antonio Brown and [Jerricho] Cotchery and [Plaxico] Burress and a draft pick or two.' ...

"I think if they let him go, they consider themselves a bit of a rebuilder. If they keep him, then they look at themselves as a bit of a contender. You can only [sit] on the fence for so long. It's a delicate balance. ... In a way, you don't win either way."

Jooser
04-13-2013, 06:31 PM
Mike Florio is a ****ing punk.

I would never argue any different, but not sure where that fits into this issue.

thor75
04-13-2013, 08:02 PM
I would never argue any different, but not sure where that fits into this issue.

Florio was the one reporting that Big Ben wants Sanders to stay - article on page 15 of this thread. But I agree with the Florio assessment as well!

supersteeler
04-14-2013, 08:32 AM
patriot sports writer Mike Reiss has a opposing view of Pittsburgh sports writer Ed Bouchette regarding Sanders.

If I'm Steelers general manager Kevin Colbert, I'm matching the offer sheet to restricted free agent receiver Emmanuel Sanders. While $2.5 million is more than the club hoped to pay Sanders, who was tendered at $1.3 million, it's still reasonable for a projected top-2 or top-3 receiver. In retrospect, the Steelers could have ensured Sanders would be with them by tendering him at $2 million, which was the second-round level, as it's unlikely the Patriots would have submitted an offer sheet in that scenario. But instead the salary-cap strapped Steelers left themselves at risk of losing Sanders, which when considering Mike Wallace was unlikely to return, seems like a miscalculation even given their recent impressive history of drafting and developing at the position. That's why I'd absorb the pay boost and keep Sanders around even if he ultimately departs next year as an unrestricted free agent.

http://t.co/h09vliia7s

NorthCoast
04-14-2013, 09:27 AM
Some of you are suggesting Breaston is an adequate replacement for Sanders, and would come cheaper. If Sanders=Breaston, then why would NE make the offer to Sanders, for potentially more than they would have to pay Breaston?

Jooser
04-14-2013, 10:09 AM
On the Steelers: Keeping Sanders, not letting him go, would be the real gamble


April 14, 2013 12:13 am

By Ed Bouchette / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Presented with the decision the Steelers must make on Emmanuel Sanders by midnight tonight, Kevin Colbert, Mike Tomlin and Art Rooney had to have made two lists, just like the rest of us when faced with such a task.

On one list, they would write down the reasons to match New England's reported offer to Sanders of $2.5 million for one season and keep him. The second would contain reasons to let him go and receive the Patriots' third-round choice in this month's draft, No. 91 overall.
Surely that second list would be much longer and contain more compelling reasons to persuade them to pass and take the pick. It's almost a no-brainer, yet other factors could be at work here, including a coaching staff that went 8-8 last season and might be worried about how another year out of the playoffs could erode job security.

Sanders is a nice little receiver, a young player with good hands, quickness and the ability to gain chunks of yards after he catches the football. He is projected to replace Mike Wallace as their starting split end this season. Obviously, the Patriots think enough of him to gamble a third-round pick and a one-year deal as they do all they can to win now in Tom Brady's golden years.

Let's say the Steelers matched and kept him for 2013. It would mean they'd want to keep him long-term as well. They can then try to negotiate a multiple-year contract with Sanders. But what if he pulls a Mike Wallace and no matter what they offer, he rejects? Are they willing to pay him more than Antonio Brown? Probably not, and Sanders probably would opt to gamble on free agency in 2014, just like Wallace.

In essence, they would go through another season with a lame-duck starter at wide receiver, and they would have thrown away the chance to acquire a 2013 third-round pick for him (if he joins the Patriots, the Steelers likely would pick up a third-round compensatory pick in 2014).

Also, while they do have room under the salary cap to cover that $2.5 million -- they need only about $1.2 million above the $1.323 million they already are committed to him -- it would bring them within about $700,000 of their cap limit. They will clear $5.5 million more in cap space in June because of their release of Willie Colon, but they will need much of that to sign their rookie draft picks.

Matching the Sanders deal might preclude them from signing, say, Ahmad Bradshaw. Or it might force them to restructure a contract they did not want to redo, that of Troy Polamalu, and push even more cap accounting into future years. By passing on Sanders, they would pick up about $900,000 more in cap space immediately, giving them more than enough to sign another veteran or two in free agency before June.

If the Steelers really wanted to pay Sanders that kind of money, they could have put a second-round tender on him, which would have cost them $2.023 million. Perhaps they felt Sanders was not worth that much.

Put it this way, if another receiver with Emmanuel Sanders' ability was on another team and he was a restricted free agent with a third-round tender, would the Steelers give up a third-rounder for him? Not on your life. Would they trade a third-rounder for a receiver of Sanders' ability? No.

So, why would they give up a third-rounder to keep him?

This team is in transition, no matter what Kevin Colbert says, and it needs to remake its wide receiving corps. They planned to draft a wide receiver anyway, perhaps even high; they can let Sanders go and draft two of them.

This is a draft that supposedly is not impressive at the top but deep, which means those third-round picks are more valuable this year than they were last year. They have other pressing needs besides wide receiver, like running back, linebackers and safeties. That extra third-rounder would come in handy to address all.

Not only that, but that third-round pick will average under $700,000 a year for four years, all in the Steelers' control with no RFA after three as was the case with Sanders. How's that for more cap relief?

Steelers fans know the more recent history of the team finding wide receivers in the third round and later, but here's a quick review: Hines Ward, Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown ... Emmanuel Sanders. There's also an occasional Willie Reid.

It would be a gamble, letting Sanders go and hoping to find his replacement in the draft. It would be a bigger one to keep him.

thor75
04-14-2013, 10:15 AM
patriot sports writer Mike Reiss has a opposing view of Pittsburgh sports writer Ed Bouchette regarding Sanders.

If I'm Steelers general manager Kevin Colbert, I'm matching the offer sheet to restricted free agent receiver Emmanuel Sanders. While $2.5 million is more than the club hoped to pay Sanders, who was tendered at $1.3 million, it's still reasonable for a projected top-2 or top-3 receiver. In retrospect, the Steelers could have ensured Sanders would be with them by tendering him at $2 million, which was the second-round level, as it's unlikely the Patriots would have submitted an offer sheet in that scenario. But instead the salary-cap strapped Steelers left themselves at risk of losing Sanders, which when considering Mike Wallace was unlikely to return, seems like a miscalculation even given their recent impressive history of drafting and developing at the position. That's why I'd absorb the pay boost and keep Sanders around even if he ultimately departs next year as an unrestricted free agent.

http://t.co/h09vliia7s

Maybe the FO wasn't sold on Sanders in the locker room like some reports are speculating. Giving him the lower offer is the least risk...if he leaves its addition by subtraction way of thinking, plus a third rounder. On the other hand, if he stays we retain a good young player for cheap for another year. Depends on the FOs opinion on Sanders. I was really surprised to hear Antonio's opinions. Its tough to know what to believe.

Steelerphile
04-14-2013, 10:33 AM
patriot sports writer Mike Reiss has a opposing view of Pittsburgh sports writer Ed Bouchette regarding Sanders.

If I'm Steelers general manager Kevin Colbert, I'm matching the offer sheet to restricted free agent receiver Emmanuel Sanders. While $2.5 million is more than the club hoped to pay Sanders, who was tendered at $1.3 million, it's still reasonable for a projected top-2 or top-3 receiver. In retrospect, the Steelers could have ensured Sanders would be with them by tendering him at $2 million, which was the second-round level, as it's unlikely the Patriots would have submitted an offer sheet in that scenario. But instead the salary-cap strapped Steelers left themselves at risk of losing Sanders, which when considering Mike Wallace was unlikely to return, seems like a miscalculation even given their recent impressive history of drafting and developing at the position. That's why I'd absorb the pay boost and keep Sanders around even if he ultimately departs next year as an unrestricted free agent.

http://t.co/h09vliia7s

I agree with this view much more than I do with Bouchette's. I think other than Worilds, Sanders is the most talented young veteran on the Steelers roster. Just like Worilds, he has not been in the right position, either on the depth chart, or by his health, to get a lot of playing time. I think he would do well, if he gets this opportunity, provided there are no more health issues. I think Bouchette is correlating Wallace with Sanders and implying that Sanders would give less than his best effort, ala Wallace, because he is a "lameduck", and protect his body for free agency.

I don't think that is a danger, first because I don't think Sanders has a long enough history of excellence to get by doing that. He has to have a very good or big year to make himself eligible for a good contract as a free agent, whereas I think Wallace felt he already had done enough in prior years, to ensure he would get "paid."

I also don't think that Sanders is that type of personality, even if he could get by with that. Just my opinion.

Steelers have done well drafting WRs recently by getting Wallace, Brown and Sanders, but who knows, is that a fluke, or can the Steelers afford to cast off a good young receiver and rest assured thay will find another, just as good in the draft? I take a "bird in the hand, etc."philosophy on this. I don't think their recent good drafts of wrs should make them overconfident about getting a replacement. I'd rather see them draft a running back, that they think could play right away, then a wide receiver. RB is a more instinctive position, whereas wide receiver is position that I think takes more time to develop, especially in terms of chemistry between QB and WR.

I also don't agree with Bouchette's point about if Sanders was on another team, would they give up a 3rd round for him etc.? Steelers always place a higher value on players they have drafted and been in the system, then they do a comparable player from another team. That is sort of why they bring back players like Gay and Spaeth. They know them.
WR.

phillyesq
04-14-2013, 10:41 AM
Some of you are suggesting Breaston is an adequate replacement for Sanders, and would come cheaper. If Sanders=Breaston, then why would NE make the offer to Sanders, for potentially more than they would have to pay Breaston?

The Pats* likely believe that they can lock up Sanders long term, and long term, Sanders is certainly better than Breaston. Also, the Pats* have trouble developing WRs, so trading a third rounder for a WR who performs like a third rounder is a sound decision for them.

For the near term, Breaston would represent a step down from Sanders, but how big is the dropoff? If Breaston is healthy (and this is the question mark, for which I would defer to the Steelers medical staff), I don't think the dropoff is too significant. Even if there is a bit of a dropoff, it allows for improvement in other areas, which is significant.

Also, for the Steelers, the third round pick and the cap space are significant. It could be Bradshaw/Breaston/Third vs. Sanders. I don't believe that the Pats* are as tight against the cap.

Shoe
04-14-2013, 10:48 AM
Bouchette says "Put it this way, if another receiver with Emmanuel Sanders' ability was on another team and he was a restricted free agent with a third-round tender, would the Steelers give up a third-rounder for him? Not on your life. Would they trade a third-rounder for a receiver of Sanders' ability? No."

I disagree with that. Sanders is still an ascending player in most eyes. He hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy, yes. But he has shown that he can play in this league, something all 3rd round picks this year will still need to prove. Assuming he plays 16 games or close to it, and you could be looking at an 800-1,000 yard player.

SteelBucks
04-14-2013, 01:01 PM
I'm not reading all 17 pages here, so it may have been mentioned, but I think we all know how this is going to play out. IMO, the Steelers will not match the Patriots offer and use the money on Bradshaw if he's healthy. This team has holes and depth problems all over the place, so sign a RB and load up on draft picks. This is the right move if the Steelers feel they can't sign Sanders long term. Why pay him $2.5 million if he's going to leave as a UFA after this season? I hate renting players and that is exactly what Sanders would be.

supersteeler
04-14-2013, 02:09 PM
Roethlisberger puts Tomlin, Steelers on the spot over SandersApr 14th, 2013 at 11:05 am by Michael HammNew England Patriots« PreviousHome » New England Patriots » Roethlisberger puts Tomlin, Steelers on the spot over Sanders Pin ItA little gamesmanship on the part of Mike Tomlin may end up causing the Pittsburgh Steelers some real internal problems.

The Steelers must decide by midnight on Sunday whether to retain the services of restricted wide receiver Emmanuel Sanders, who was signed to an offer sheet by the New England Patriots this past week. Should they decide to let Sanders walk, the team would then take control of the Patriots 3rd round pick in the NFL draft in less than two weeks.


Dec 30, 2012; Pittsburgh, PA, USA; Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger (7) scrambles against the Cleveland Browns during the second half of the game at Heinz Field. The Steelers won the game, 24-10. Mandatory Credit: Jason Bridge-USA TODAY Sports
These situations always seem to have no direction, but this one has taken on a life of it’s own, as the fate of the entire franchise is now involved.

Steelers head coach Tomlin waited out Patriots’ coach Bill Belichick’s decision on whether to sign the 26 year old Sanders an offer sheet, which left the Steelers free agency and draft status in limbo, so it’s almost certain that Tomlin made up his mind weeks ago as to what he would do if Belichick did sign the speedster to the offer…

…and now he’s making Belichcik wait until the last possible moment to know what his response will be – but in taking part in the gamesmanship with Belichick, Tomlin left himself open for both scrutiny and divisiveness, as now quarterback Ben Roethlisberger has thrown a wrench into the works.

According to various reports, Roethlisberger has been “lobbying” the Steelers to match the Patriots’ offer for Sanders, which makes a situation that really wasn’t such a huge deal in the grand scheme of things into a potential internal time bomb for Pittsburgh.

Now, instead of the question being do the Steelers match the offer and have Sanders start opposite Antonio Brown or take the 91st pick in the draft, it has become a question of how much the Steelers respect the feelings and word of their franchise signal caller.

In other words, now it’s all about Big Ben.

Selfishness has always been Roethlisberger’s calling card, but there’s no need to go into his various off-field issues, which are well documented. On the field he is as frustrating to the opposition as he has been to his employers off it…

…and now he’s just put them in a position to have to not just decide on whether to retain Sanders, but whether to show support to their franchise quarterback by bringing Sanders back for one more season, creating a potential public relations nightmare between the team and their two-time Super Bowl winning quarterback.

Roethlisberger has forced the Steelers’ hand, and by midnight on Sunday we’ll see just how much they value his opinion.

NorthCoast
04-14-2013, 03:19 PM
Roethlisberger puts Tomlin, Steelers on the spot over SandersApr 14th, 2013 at 11:05 am by Michael HammNew England Patriots« PreviousHome » New England Patriots » Roethlisberger puts Tomlin, Steelers on the spot over Sanders Pin ItA little gamesmanship on the part of Mike Tomlin may end up causing the Pittsburgh Steelers some real internal problems.

The Steelers must decide by midnight on Sunday whether to retain the services of restricted wide receiver Emmanuel Sanders, who was signed to an offer sheet by the New England Patriots this past week. Should they decide to let Sanders walk, the team would then take control of the Patriots 3rd round pick in the NFL draft in less than two weeks.


Dec 30, 2012; Pittsburgh, PA, USA; Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger (7) scrambles against the Cleveland Browns during the second half of the game at Heinz Field. The Steelers won the game, 24-10. Mandatory Credit: Jason Bridge-USA TODAY Sports
These situations always seem to have no direction, but this one has taken on a life of it’s own, as the fate of the entire franchise is now involved.

Steelers head coach Tomlin waited out Patriots’ coach Bill Belichick’s decision on whether to sign the 26 year old Sanders an offer sheet, which left the Steelers free agency and draft status in limbo, so it’s almost certain that Tomlin made up his mind weeks ago as to what he would do if Belichick did sign the speedster to the offer…

…and now he’s making Belichcik wait until the last possible moment to know what his response will be – but in taking part in the gamesmanship with Belichick, Tomlin left himself open for both scrutiny and divisiveness, as now quarterback Ben Roethlisberger has thrown a wrench into the works.

According to various reports, Roethlisberger has been “lobbying” the Steelers to match the Patriots’ offer for Sanders, which makes a situation that really wasn’t such a huge deal in the grand scheme of things into a potential internal time bomb for Pittsburgh.

Now, instead of the question being do the Steelers match the offer and have Sanders start opposite Antonio Brown or take the 91st pick in the draft, it has become a question of how much the Steelers respect the feelings and word of their franchise signal caller.

In other words, now it’s all about Big Ben.

Selfishness has always been Roethlisberger’s calling card, but there’s no need to go into his various off-field issues, which are well documented. On the field he is as frustrating to the opposition as he has been to his employers off it…

…and now he’s just put them in a position to have to not just decide on whether to retain Sanders, but whether to show support to their franchise quarterback by bringing Sanders back for one more season, creating a potential public relations nightmare between the team and their two-time Super Bowl winning quarterback.

Roethlisberger has forced the Steelers’ hand, and by midnight on Sunday we’ll see just how much they value his opinion.

Wow, the media really loves to play this bullcrap up. Newsflash: Roethlisberger ain't the only QB in the league that wants to keep his WRs. Seems there was one T Brady who made the same statements about Welker, and how did that work out for him? Point is, the FO will do what's best for the team. While Ben wants what's best for himself (or the offense).

Keep in mind Ben also wanted the Steelers to keep Plax way back when, and it didn't seem to bother FO then either. Add to the fact that Plax was 2x the WR that Sanders is.

Sugar
04-14-2013, 04:09 PM
Wow, the media really loves to play this bullcrap up. Newsflash: Roethlisberger ain't the only QB in the league that wants to keep his WRs. Seems there was one T Brady who made the same statements about Welker, and how did that work out for him? Point is, the FO will do what's best for the team. While Ben wants what's best for himself (or the offense).

Keep in mind Ben also wanted the Steelers to keep Plax way back when, and it didn't seem to bother FO then either. Add to the fact that Plax was 2x the WR that Sanders is.

It seems to me that a good teammate and a team leader would lobby for his guys. The worst the FO can do is say no. If they say yes, you have that player in your corner.

Ghost
04-15-2013, 09:55 AM
I dont' see Ben lobbying for Sanders as being selfish at all. He's got a WR we's already built a rapport with and lost one WR already. Seems to make perfect sense to want the guy back in the huddle. Doesn't put the owners or GM in a tough spot at all. Ben made his wishes known, but they still have final say. Ben wanting him back is just another pieces in the puzzle. And why wouldn't you want the opinion of the guy who's your franchise QB. He's the most important player on the team (and we see this whenever he's not playing).

Sanders signed!

DBR96A
04-15-2013, 11:28 AM
I dont' see Ben lobbying for Sanders as being selfish at all.
The only people who do are those who dislike him. Nothing he does will ever satisfy them.

papillon
04-15-2013, 11:53 AM
The only people who do are those who dislike him. Nothing he does will ever satisfy them.

This! If Ben sits by and says nothing, then he isn't leading, when he lobbies for a player he's being selfish, If he says the offense isn't gelling, he's at odds with Haley, wash, rinse repeat for those who dislike Ben and anything he does.

Pappy

flippy
04-15-2013, 12:05 PM
This! If Ben sits by and says nothing, then he isn't leading, when he lobbies for a player he's being selfish, If he says the offense isn't gelling, he's at odds with Haley, wash, rinse repeat for those who dislike Ben and anything he does.

Pappy

Or you could look at it like the Steelers are like God on their own time table. The first big request from Ben was for Plax and viola, mid way through 2012, he gets him back. Didn't take so long to get Sanders back in the fold.