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Dee Dub
04-07-2013, 04:51 PM
Shariff Floyd (good player and did have some production but why is he a top 5 pick?)
Cordarrell Patterson
Dion Jordan
Barkevious Mingo

Show me what they did on the field that makes them so highly rated. Not what they did in workouts.

thor75
04-07-2013, 05:03 PM
Its definitely the measurables and potential for Patterson. Teams and draft gurus are banking on that imo.

I have seen some talk lately about where Mingo fits in the NFL. I just posted an article on the visit thread where this is discussed. People seem scattered on their opinions about him. I've seen him mocked all over the first round. Very athletic but not strong for the position, I'm not sure why the hype exists for him either.

feltdizz
04-07-2013, 05:14 PM
Its definitely the measurables and potential for Patterson. Teams and draft gurus are banking on that imo.

I have seen some talk lately about where Mingo fits in the NFL. I just posted an article on the visit thread where this is discussed. People seem scattered on their opinions about him. I've seen him mocked all over the first round. Very athletic but not strong for the position, I'm not sure why the hype exists for him either.

Patterson shouldnt be on this list... I think its obvious why scouts are high on him.

hawaiiansteel
04-07-2013, 05:30 PM
Patterson shouldnt be on this list... I think its obvious why scouts are high on him.

2013 NFL Draft: Tennessee receiver Cordarrelle Patterson could be NFL’s next ‘freak’

By Marla Ridenour
Beacon Journal sports columnist
Published: April 6, 2013

http://www.ohio.com/polopoly_fs/1.387576.1365294559!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_270/draft07web.jpg

As recruiting coordinator at the University of Tennessee last season, Darin Hinshaw laughed at what Hutchinson Community College used as its hook for Cordarrelle Patterson.

But Hinshaw couldn’t ignore the December 2011 barrage from three Blue Dragons coaches as they tried to get a college to make Patterson an offer.

“They said, ‘This guy is a freak of nature,’ ” said Hinshaw, now the passing game coordinator and quarterbacks coach at the University of Cincinnati.

Hinshaw went to Hutchinson, Kan., on his way to Garden City Community College. The discovery he made redefined the way he looks at recruits who take that route.

“I said, ‘I’m going to stop by and see this freak,’ kind of laughing at him,” Hinshaw said. “I saw him and went, ‘You are right. There’s no doubt this kid is special.’

“You get those phone calls all the time and I always try to see, ‘Is this the next Cordarrelle Patterson?’ ”

The Browns are expected to use the sixth overall pick in the April 25-27 draft on a defensive player. But should they trade down to replace the second-round selection they used on Josh Gordon in the 2012 supplemental draft, explosive receiver and kick returner Patterson could be a target.

In that case, they could also be tempted by teammate Justin Hunter, a lithe leaper nicknamed “Gumby” at UT.

In rounds three or four, the Browns could also take a chance on another ex-Vols receiver, Da’Rick Rogers. He was indefinitely suspended by Tennessee last August after multiple violations of the school’s substance abuse policy and ended up playing at Tennessee Tech.

All three have negatives to overcome. Although he set a school record with 1,858 all-purpose yards last season and averaged 16.9 yards per catch, Patterson is considered a one-year wonder. He will also need personal tutoring because of his limited experience in a pro-style scheme, Hinshaw said. Hunter dropped several passes, some excused by Hinshaw because he got to footballs others wouldn’t. Rogers’ off-the-field issues will be scrutinized, especially since he has the toughness and strength to play inside or outside.

Hinshaw touted the potential of all three in a telephone interview last week. But Patterson was the one he raved about most.

“He’s the best I’ve ever seen with the ball in his hands. He can make people miss, explode and get vertical,” Hinshaw said of the 6-foot-2, 216-pound Patterson. “He made numerous people in the SEC look stupid who will be playing in the NFL, and I believe he’ll do the same thing at the next level.

“He’s not a one-year wonder. He’s a 15-year wonder in the NFL.”

Versatility in scoring

Patterson arrived at Tennessee in July and went on to become the first NCAA player to score a touchdown four different ways since 2008. That had happened before in Knoxville, but it took future Cincinnati Bengals receiver Carl Pickens three years to do it. Patterson (his first name is pronounced CORE-dare-uhl) joined Bobby Gordon in 1957 as the only Vols to score on a kickoff and a punt return in a single season.

Patterson’s 10 touchdowns came on five receptions, three rushes, one kickoff (a 98-yarder) and one punt (an 81-yarder).

His season low in all-purpose yards was 58 against the University of Akron. Facing eventual national champion Alabama, Patterson managed 130, 111 on kickoff returns, with just one catch for 25 yards.

Hinshaw said that wasn’t all because of the coverage of Crimson Tide cornerback Dee Milliner, another candidate for the Browns’ sixth pick.

“It wasn’t necessarily the matchup,” Hinshaw said. “There’s not many guys who can guard him one-on-one.

“When our run game’s not going well, they can put a safety and a corner on him. They’re pretty salty inside being able to stop the run with an even amount of people in the box. Can do different things in the secondary to force you to throw away from them. That’s Alabama, that’s why not many teams have beaten them.”

Two best cornerbacks

At the NFL Scouting Combine, Patterson said Milliner and Mississippi State’s Johnthan Banks, projected as a top 50 pick by Pro Football Weekly, were the two best cornerbacks he faced.

Patterson didn’t think he’d be a starter when he arrived in Knoxville, but took advantage of his opportunity when Rogers was suspended.

“Some things happened at Tennessee and people started expecting big things from me, so I had to fill that role,” Patterson said.

Asked in February what he needed to work on, Patterson said “route running and learning coverages.”

Those will be Patterson’s challenges, Hinshaw said. A former quarterback at Central Florida, Hinshaw was a rookie minicamp invitee of the Browns in 1995, but was not signed by player personnel director Mike Lombardi, now the Browns general manager.

“I’ve talked to a large amount of NFL teams. I told them, ‘He’s a guy you’re going to have to teach and be patient with. Not because he’s stupid by any means, the guy’s as smart as can be,’ ” Hinshaw said. “His issue is every single play, ‘What’s the scheme? What’s my responsibility? Am I hot? Am I not hot? Oh, yeah, now I’ve got to beat this guy in my route. Or if it goes to Cover 2 I’ve got to run a little different route. Cover 3, I’ve got to run a different route.’ Those are things that he will get [much] better at when he’s doing it all the time, when he doesn’t have to worry about school.”

At the combine, NFL Network analyst Mike Mayock called Patterson “a height/weight/speed freak.” Before he went to Indianapolis, Mayock said Patterson “might be one of the most talented physical specimens in this class. He’s taking your breath away from the ability to make plays, especially after he gets the ball in his hands.”

But in reference to junior college receivers with only one year at a major program, Mayock said, “There’s a bunch of those guys that have failed over the past 20 years.”

Hinshaw said Patterson is motivated and warns those who pass on drafting him.

“He will impact the game next year,” Hinshaw said. “After games, people from Georgia, Florida, Alabama and South Carolina would come up to me and go, ‘That’s the best player I’ve ever seen.’ Numerous people said, ‘Man, the guy’s unbelievable.’ He scared defenses to death and he’ll do the same thing in the NFL.”

http://www.ohio.com/news/top-stories/2013-nfl-draft-tennessee-receiver-cordarrelle-patterson-could-be-nfl-s-next-freak-1.387551

Dee Dub
04-07-2013, 05:34 PM
Patterson shouldnt be on this list... I think its obvious why scouts are high on him.

This thread ask you to explain why based on what he did on the field. Can you do that?

One year at division 1 he gets 46 receptions for 778 yards and 5 TD's. That is obvious to you?

thor75
04-07-2013, 05:43 PM
BTW Dee Dub, I like your Darius Slay pick in round 4. :)

Chadman
04-07-2013, 06:58 PM
While Chadman understands your point that production doesn't equal draft status, it's fairly obvious that at Draft time, that isn't the only defining tool to draft status. Obviously athletic ability comes into it, along with Tomlin's favourite "Splash Plays". No doubt all 4 players you have mentioned excelled at the last 2 categories.

hawaiiansteel
04-07-2013, 07:11 PM
BTW Dee Dub, I like your Darius Slay pick in round 4. :)

except that most mocks I've seen have him going in the 2nd or 3rd round...

thor75
04-07-2013, 07:14 PM
except that most mocks I've seen have him going in the 2nd or 3rd round...

I noticed that as well. Maybe another reason to trade down to get more picks?? I was surprised no CB were on the visit list. They can only have 30 correct? 29 are listed as of now.

Chadman
04-07-2013, 07:32 PM
I noticed that as well. Maybe another reason to trade down to get more picks?? I was surprised no CB were on the visit list. They can only have 30 correct? 29 are listed as of now.


Wouldn't panic yet Thor- the 29 you mention from Walterfootball includes chats at Pro Days, Combine & East West Shrine games...not actual VISITS to the Steelers HQ, which is the '30' the Steelers are allowed.

As far as Chadman can tell, against the 30 are:

John Simon OLB Ohio St (Does he count? Local?)
Malliciah Goodman OLB Clemson
Mike Mauti ILB Penn St
Jonathon Franklin RB UCLA
Josh Boyce WR TCU
Phillip Thomas FS Fresno St
Duke Williams SS Nevada
Khaseem Greene ILB Rutgers
Christine Michael RB Texas A&M
Jarvis Jones OLB Georgia
Jamie Collins OLB Souther Mississippi
Jonathan Meeks SS Clemson
Vince Williams ILB Florida St

That's all so far- 13. Still have 17 to go. :)

Chadman
04-07-2013, 07:35 PM
What is obvious is that LB (both ILB & OLB), RB & the Safety positions have completely dominated the visits. Would not be surprised if we see a Defense heavy draft coming up.

feltdizz
04-07-2013, 09:54 PM
[QUOTE=Dee Dub;557751]This thread ask you to explain why based on what he did on the field. Can you do that?

One year at division 1 he gets 46 receptions for 778 yards and 5 TD's. That is obvious to you?[/QUO

He also had Tyler Bray throwing the football to him.. when he gets his hands on the football he is deadly. He had 10 TD's total, KO, PR... and a ton of hghlights making 4 and 5 guys miss. Size, speed, hands... and he isnt too proud too admit his weakness running routes and reading defenses.

One look at his highlight tape..along with his combine numbers and its easy to see why he is rated so high.

thor75
04-07-2013, 10:33 PM
Wouldn't panic yet Thor- the 29 you mention from Walterfootball includes chats at Pro Days, Combine & East West Shrine games...not actual VISITS to the Steelers HQ, which is the '30' the Steelers are allowed.

As far as Chadman can tell, against the 30 are:

John Simon OLB Ohio St (Does he count? Local?)
Malliciah Goodman OLB Clemson
Mike Mauti ILB Penn St
Jonathon Franklin RB UCLA
Josh Boyce WR TCU
Phillip Thomas FS Fresno St
Duke Williams SS Nevada
Khaseem Greene ILB Rutgers
Christine Michael RB Texas A&M
Jarvis Jones OLB Georgia
Jamie Collins OLB Souther Mississippi
Jonathan Meeks SS Clemson
Vince Williams ILB Florida St

That's all so far- 13. Still have 17 to go. :)

Thanks Chadman,

Guess I had a premature evaluation :)

Chadman
04-07-2013, 10:55 PM
Thanks Chadman,

Guess I had a premature evaluation :)

That's ok- it's a more common problem amongst posters than we feel comfortable talking about... :)

Dee Dub
04-07-2013, 11:18 PM
[QUOTE=Dee Dub;557751]This thread ask you to explain why based on what he did on the field. Can you do that?

One year at division 1 he gets 46 receptions for 778 yards and 5 TD's. That is obvious to you?[/QUO

He also had Tyler Bray throwing the football to him.. when he gets his hands on the football he is deadly. He had 10 TD's total, KO, PR... and a ton of hghlights making 4 and 5 guys miss. Size, speed, hands... and he isnt too proud too admit his weakness running routes and reading defenses.

One look at his highlight tape..along with his combine numbers and its easy to see why he is rated so high.

One look at his overall performance as a receiver says to me....no big. Rather average. 46 receptions for 778 yards and 5 TD's. I see major warning signs and a very high risk for using a high pick on that.

focosteeler
04-08-2013, 12:12 AM
[QUOTE=Dee Dub;557751]This thread ask you to explain why based on what he did on the field. Can you do that?

One year at division 1 he gets 46 receptions for 778 yards and 5 TD's. That is obvious to you?[/QUO

He also had Tyler Bray throwing the football to him.. when he gets his hands on the football he is deadly. He had 10 TD's total, KO, PR... and a ton of hghlights making 4 and 5 guys miss. Size, speed, hands... and he isnt too proud too admit his weakness running routes and reading defenses.

One look at his highlight tape..along with his combine numbers and its easy to see why he is rated so high.

This... I think that the highlight tape is what does it for Patterson. I think people see the playmaking ability with the ball in his hands and forget about having to run routes and the other things that elite WR need to do.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
04-08-2013, 09:26 AM
Wouldn't panic yet Thor- the 29 you mention from Walterfootball includes chats at Pro Days, Combine & East West Shrine games...not actual VISITS to the Steelers HQ, which is the '30' the Steelers are allowed.

As far as Chadman can tell, against the 30 are:

John Simon OLB Ohio St (Does he count? Local?)
Malliciah Goodman OLB Clemson
Mike Mauti ILB Penn St
Jonathon Franklin RB UCLA
Josh Boyce WR TCU
Phillip Thomas FS Fresno St
Duke Williams SS Nevada
Khaseem Greene ILB Rutgers
Christine Michael RB Texas A&M
Jarvis Jones OLB Georgia
Jamie Collins OLB Souther Mississippi
Jonathan Meeks SS Clemson
Vince Williams ILB Florida St

That's all so far- 13. Still have 17 to go. :)

Does Mauti from Penn St. count, or is he considered a local?

steelblood
04-08-2013, 10:00 AM
Shariff Floyd (good player and did have some production but why is he a top 5 pick?)
Cordarrell Patterson
Dion Jordan
Barkevious Mingo

Show me what they did on the field that makes them so highly rated. Not what they did in workouts.

Patterson? He had production. 10 touchdowns this season is pretty good (5 receiving, 3 rushing, 1 PR, 1 KR). He also had very good all purpose yards numbers in the best conference.

Now, he is not yet a polished receiver. I'll grant you that. But, if you've seen him play, you see that he is very explosive and an elite open field runner. In my mind, Patterson is a potential pick, but it is backed up on tape. I'm high on the kid. I'd much rather take him than Eifert (as many on this board would have us do).

Jordan is a freaky athlete. But, I have no idea why he didn't rush the passer more. With Oregon's D seeing soooo many snaps, you'd figure the best pass rusher they have would actually rush the passer. I don't get it.

Mingo scares me the most. He had three years with top talent all around him, and he didn't really develop refined pass rushing moves/skills. To me that is a huge red flag. Also, he says he doesn't want to play OLB. That is just stupid.

feltdizz
04-08-2013, 11:27 AM
Patterson? He had production. 10 touchdowns this season is pretty good (5 receiving, 3 rushing, 1 PR, 1 KR). He also had very good all purpose yards numbers in the best conference.

Now, he is not yet a polished receiver. I'll grant you that. But, if you've seen him play, you see that he is very explosive and an elite open field runner. In my mind, Patterson is a potential pick, but it is backed up on tape. I'm high on the kid. I'd much rather take him than Eifert (as many on this board would have us do).

Especially when you consider UT was one of the worst teams in the SEC right now...

never should have fired Fulmer. :nono

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-08-2013, 12:06 PM
Hung up on stats too much.

Anyone that SAYS they watch Patterson and don't know why he is graded where he is has no eyes for God Given Ability. By far, could be the most impact WR in this draft. Has what can't be taught and what he does lack can be taught. The only question surrrounding Patterson is why Jr college? How is his football IQ. None of us will have that answer but you can be sure them teams already do. When you are a skill player you have to be able to create at the next level to seperate yourself if you want to be a gamechanger. Allen is the only one out of himself Patterson & Austin that doesn't have that unique athletic ability but can bring other things to the table in his development.

Floyd is the #1 DT in this draft. The premium on DT may cause him to be overdrafted but if you are in the Top 10 & want a DT he is the one you go get. The tape tells his tale, not his stats.

I will bunch Jordan & Mingo together and say two things...Gifted Potential. When you get pass rushers with their movement skills & the tape that goes with it...They rise up the boards as they go through the process. Jordan is a plug & play 4-3 DE or a possible 3-4 OLB with great upside. Mingo might have the highest ceiling for a 3-4 OLB but he will need time to develop and gain strength.

Projecting a player into the NFL isn't black & white, what were his stats, and what conference did he play in. I find it very comical that the player who you were highest on for a long time is not on this list. A player who screams "what have you done" but you failed to put him on here because you were so high on him. Where's Ansah? Ansah didn't exist until his Senior year. Only a one year starter. Yet...He isn't on your list. Hmmmm..Interesting. To be fair though...He fits the same label as Jordan. A plug & play 4-3 DE with great upside. I personally feel Jordan may go before Ansah because of his experience but I believe Ansah has more upside. You should include everyone that fits the mold. Not just the guys of posters that disagree with you and forget about the guys you like.

feltdizz
04-08-2013, 12:50 PM
One look at his overall performance as a receiver says to me....no big. Rather average. 46 receptions for 778 yards and 5 TD's. I see major warning signs and a very high risk for using a high pick on that.

sure.. if you look at his stats he would be considered average.. but if you look at the tape and the combine numbers it's a no-brainer.

There is a risk but I don't think there are warning signs or a big red flag...

Dee Dub
04-08-2013, 07:22 PM
Hung up on stats too much.

Anyone that SAYS they watch Patterson and don't know why he is graded where he is has no eyes for God Given Ability. By far, could be the most impact WR in this draft. Has what can't be taught and what he does lack can be taught. The only question surrrounding Patterson is why Jr college? How is his football IQ. None of us will have that answer but you can be sure them teams already do. When you are a skill player you have to be able to create at the next level to seperate yourself if you want to be a gamechanger. Allen is the only one out of himself Patterson & Austin that doesn't have that unique athletic ability but can bring other things to the table in his development.

Floyd is the #1 DT in this draft. The premium on DT may cause him to be overdrafted but if you are in the Top 10 & want a DT he is the one you go get. The tape tells his tale, not his stats.

I will bunch Jordan & Mingo together and say two things...Gifted Potential. When you get pass rushers with their movement skills & the tape that goes with it...They rise up the boards as they go through the process. Jordan is a plug & play 4-3 DE or a possible 3-4 OLB with great upside. Mingo might have the highest ceiling for a 3-4 OLB but he will need time to develop and gain strength.

Projecting a player into the NFL isn't black & white, what were his stats, and what conference did he play in. I find it very comical that the player who you were highest on for a long time is not on this list. A player who screams "what have you done" but you failed to put him on here because you were so high on him. Where's Ansah? Ansah didn't exist until his Senior year. Only a one year starter. Yet...He isn't on your list. Hmmmm..Interesting. To be fair though...He fits the same label as Jordan. A plug & play 4-3 DE with great upside. I personally feel Jordan may go before Ansah because of his experience but I believe Ansah has more upside. You should include everyone that fits the mold. Not just the guys of posters that disagree with you and forget about the guys you like.

It's not just about stats but at some point doesn't a highly rated prospect have to have performed on the field at a high level? Otherwise we're looking at Darius Heyward-Bey. He pretty much put up the same numbers as Cordarrell Patterson and he too blew it up at his work outs.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-08-2013, 08:30 PM
It's not just about stats but at some point doesn't a highly rated prospect have to have performed on the field at a high level? Otherwise we're looking at Darius Heyward-Bey. He pretty much put up the same numbers as Cordarrell Patterson and he too blew it up at his work outs.
That is where you may be a little foggy Dub. I had Patterson in one of my first Mock in Jan or Feb. He wasn't a secret that blew up at the combine. Once he declared he was projected high. It wasn't his workout that blew him up...It was his tape. I said back then he will be the 1st WR taken and I stand by that. His workouts just solidifies what I saw on the field.

birtikidis
04-08-2013, 08:41 PM
It's not just about stats but at some point doesn't a highly rated prospect have to have performed on the field at a high level? Otherwise we're looking at Darius Heyward-Bey. He pretty much put up the same numbers as Cordarrell Patterson and he too blew it up at his work outs.
correct me if I'm wrong but Megatron didn't have the most impressive numbers in college

feltdizz
04-08-2013, 08:56 PM
It's not just about stats but at some point doesn't a highly rated prospect have to have performed on the field at a high level? Otherwise we're looking at Darius Heyward-Bey. He pretty much put up the same numbers as Cordarrell Patterson and he too blew it up at his work outs.

I never heard of Darius before the combine numbers... I think anyone who watched SEC football knew Patterson was the truth before the combine.

Patterson made an impact vs NC State in their opener... this isnt some combine workout warrior who just showed up at the combine and shot up the board. The combine simply re-enforced what the scouts already predicted

Dee Dub
04-08-2013, 09:34 PM
correct me if I'm wrong but Megatron didn't have the most impressive numbers in college

Again, with Patterson, it isnt just the stats. He has only played division 1 football all of 1 year. Calvin Johnson played 3 years...oh and he did put up impressive numbers.

Calvin Johnson's last year at Georgia Tech---76 Rec. 1202 yards 15 rec. TD's

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-09-2013, 09:17 AM
Again, with Patterson, it isnt just the stats. He has only played division 1 football all of 1 year. Calvin Johnson played 3 years...oh and he did put up impressive numbers.

Calvin Johnson's last year at Georgia Tech---76 Rec. 1202 yards 15 rec. TD's

Dub, you sit here and preach stats about every one of your players and then you go & say it isn't about stats for any other argument. You preach SEC and here is a player who put up great stats in the SEC. So when does your argument become the right argument? Your guy Allen was only a 61/737 12 AVG 6 TD guy in 9 games last year. He had a great year in '11. That doesn't cast a shadow on his production.

Since you like the stats...I will give you all the stats & rankings you want.

In 23 games JUCO:
Rushing: 39/398 10.9 AVG 6 TDS
Receiving: 113/1832 16.2 AVG 24 TDS
KR/PR: 31/1127 6 TDS

Impressive numbers. Jr College level of competition? OK...But then he comes to your "All mighty" SEC for 1 year.
In 12 games @ TN:
Rushing: 25/308 12.3 AVG 3 TDS
Receiving: 46/778 16.9 AVG 5 TDS
KR: 25/671 26.8 AVG 1 TD
PR: 4/101 25.3 AVG 1 TD

Ranked:
1st SEC - 16th Nation for All purpose yards per game.
1st SEC - 14th Nation 30 yards+ All Purpose Play
1st SEC - 1st Nation PR AVG (Non Qualifier)
1st SEC - 16th Nation KR AVG
5th SEC - 28th Nation RCPT AVG
1st SEC - 1st Nation Rush AVG (Non Qualifier)
11th SEC RCV Yards Per game (Hunter was 3rd)
14th SEC RCPTS
12th SEC RCPTS Per game
11th SEC Yards
13th SEC Scoring
11th SEC Yards from Scrimmage
7th SEC 10 yards+ Plays from Scrimmage
9th SEC 10 yards+ Receptions

Only 1 year in the SEC...That's right....But I would say those numbers squash the argument. What would you think his numbers would be if Hunter wasn't on that team? With Hunter, Bray, Thomas & Rivera leaving and a New HC...He made the right decision to come out. Patterson on tape stands out when he is on the field. He is a playmaker & threat any time he gets the balls in his hands. He will need to sharpen his route running but that will only add to his play. His numbers & tape tells the tale & Patterson more than likely will be the 1st WR selected.

Slapstick
04-09-2013, 11:38 AM
He is a playmaker & threat any time he gets the balls in his hands.

I apologize for being so immature that everything is a sexual innuendo...:oops: