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Jooser
03-28-2013, 05:33 PM
Development, Not Drafting, Problem for Steelers in Tomlin Era
By Dan Snyder (http://bleacherreport.com/users/43712-dan-snyder)
(Featured Columnist) on March 28, 2013


http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/002/233/148/hi-res-158031006_crop_exact.jpg?w=650&h=440&q=75 Joe Sargent/Getty Images

After being bested by the Tim Tebow (http://bleacherreport.com/tim-tebow)-led Broncos (http://bleacherreport.com/denver-broncos) in the 2011 Wild Card round and missing the entire playoff dance in 2012, many Steelers (http://bleacherreport.com/pittsburgh-steelers) fans and media members have come to attack the practices of head coach Mike Tomlin (http://bleacherreport.com/mike-tomlin).

Specifically, they've mostly brought his drafting philosophy into question.


It's true that there have been a good number of high profile Tomlin-era picks haven't panned out since the coach took over the team in 2007, but is it truly his drafting style or the players themselves that are the problem?


If you take a look back at the Steelers' drafts since 2007, most of them come with very positive reviews.In 2011, Fox Sports analyst Adam Caplan (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/2011-NFL-draft-grades-for-each-team-043011) gave the Steelers a "B" for a draft that included Cameron Heyward, Marcus Gilbert and others citing that the team "nice job of drafting for value, which is usually the case with this team."


Even back in 2008, which may turn out to be the worst draft in the Steelers history, experts were raving about the job Tomlin and GM Kevin Colbert did. Larry Weisman of USA Today (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2008-04-27-draft-grades_N.htm) gave Pittsburgh the third-highest grade for the class saying:


http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/article/media_slots/photos/000/786/889/hi-res-156727406_crop_exact.jpg?w=340&h=226&q=85
Rashard Mendenhall was the 1st pick of a disastrous 2008 draft class.
Joe Sargent/Getty Images

"Terrific bit of luck getting RB Rashard Mendenhall 23rd, especially when the o-linemen they liked best were gone. This gives them some between-the-tackles punch to complement Willie Parker (http://fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/content/player.asp?sport=NFL&id=2957), who comes off a broken leg. WR Limas Sweed is a great value late in round 2 and Bruce Davis is a typical Steelers' outside LB with rush skills. OT Tony Hill is a mauler who fits this type of running game."
Unfortunately, none of the four players Weisman mentions in the article are currently on the roster with Mendenhall becoming the latest casualty from an utterly disastrous class.

Overall, between the 2007 and 2012 classes, the Steelers have averaged about a B to B+ grade in the five year period. I wouldn't call that bad drafting so something else has to be in play here, right?


All the concerns have had Steelers fans reverting back to the old "If Bill Cowher were here..." routine when discussing the issues with the draft, but what they fail to remember is that rarely were fans raving about the job Cowher did on draft day.


From 1992 to 2006, Cowher coached the Steelers to six AFC Title Games and two Super Bowls culminating in the fifth of six Lombardi Trophies that currently reside in the Steel City. Drafting guys like Deon Figures ('93), Jamain Stephens ('96) and Troy Edwards ('99) in the first round, it's hard to see how that happened.


Now in fairness to Cowher, he went on a string from 2000 to 2006 where he drafted not just starters, but Pro Bowlers in the first round every year during that span. But there's a distinct difference between the Cowher-era players and the Tomlin-era players.

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/article/media_slots/photos/000/786/894/hi-res-155482472_crop_exact.jpg?w=340&h=226&q=85
Tomlin embraces Antonio Brown, one of his draft pieces who has worked out.
Rich Schultz/Getty Images


Simply put, the Tomlin-era have never properly developed or have never been properly developed.


Don't get me wrong, Tomlin has had his share of impact players on the Steelers roster. LaMarr Woodley, Lawrence Timmons, Mike Wallace, Keenan Lewis, and Maurkice Pouncey are all Tomlin players and have all played big roles on this team.


But there's been a lot of high picks that haven't exactly panned out so far. By my count, of the 33 players the Steelers drafted between 2007 and 2010, only eight remain on the roster. That means under one-quarter of the drafted players in those four classes now remain in Pittsburgh.


Even more importantly is that only eight of those same 33 players made significant impacts (starter or significant contributor for MULTIPLE seasons; so no K. Lewis, J. Dwyer) to date.


Tomlin and Colbert discuss the selection of Ziggy Hood.


But it's not like the Steelers are reaching for players by leaps and bounds or are taking guys who weren't productive at the college level. Ziggy Hood, for example, was a consensus All-Big 12 first teamer in his senior year and even an Academic second team All-Big 12er. Hood got good reviews from the guys over at fftoolbox.com (http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=1858) and had a fantastic Senior Bowl.


But the praise for Hood was nothing compared to the worshiping the Steelers brass got for their 2008 draft which included Rashard Mendenhall, Limas Sweed and Bruce Davis.


In 2008, College Football News ranked Mendenhall as the top back in the class, ahead of guys like Darren McFaddeen, Jamaal Charles, Matt Forte (http://bleacherreport.com/matt-forte), Ray Rice and Chris Johnson. They went on to add, "If he can find the fire and the drive to be special, he'll be a yearly Pro Bowl performer." (http://cfn.scout.com/2/745122.html)


The guys at CFN also dubbed that outside of a wrist injury, Sweed "had it all" and that "he'll work his tail off and will be very productive." As we know now, neither of those statements were true. Sweed did not have it all and did anything but work his tail off.


The point is, all of these guys were very good college players who had the potential and, apparently, the drive to play at the next level. So what happened?


To me, this one is on the coaches for failing to get these players where they need to be to succeed at the next level. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure some of this still has to do with the individual players themselves, but too much has gone wrong for it to be a coincidence.




Whether the Steelers haven't pushed their guys hard enough or whether they're simply just not good scheme fits for what the team does, the point is moot. Under Tomlin, Pittsburgh has failed to fully develop draftees into the future stars they're capable of becoming. Even a guy like LaMarr Woodley who has the potential to be an All-Pro continually comes into camp overweight and out of shape and really to no consequence.

Players like Mendenhall, Hood and Cameron Heyward haven't ever lived up to the hype that comes with being a first round pick and currently, I'll be the first to point the finger at the coaches development.


If the Steelers want to keep doing business the "Steeler Way", they're going to have to do a better job of getting their guys ready.

Siggy00
03-28-2013, 05:36 PM
Kendall Simmons never went to the Pro Bowl. I don't believe Plax did either. Nor Santonio Holmes.

Cowher had many draft duds. They don't remember that because they defend Yinzers to the hilt.

SteelerOfDeVille
03-28-2013, 05:40 PM
If the Steelers want to keep doing business the "Steeler Way", they're going to have to do a better job of retaining guys once they get them ready.

there... i fixed it

supersteeler
03-28-2013, 06:11 PM
I didn't hear much about development when we had back to back 12-4 seasons, but when you finish 8-8 everything under the sun comes up for the underachieving season.

Siggy00
03-28-2013, 06:20 PM
Of course it's Tomlin. Can't blame the lawyer and the golf coach.

thor75
03-28-2013, 06:21 PM
My philosophy is its never one thing or the other... its always a combination. Maybe you didn't draft the right guy and maybe you didn't develop or motivate him the right way. Just shows you its an inexact science. The team that does both right all the time will be annual SB participants. We aren't there yet but we do it better than most.

NW Steeler
03-28-2013, 06:30 PM
Only 8 of 33 drafted remain? That seems horrid. I wonder how that compares to the rest of the league?

flippy
03-28-2013, 08:13 PM
We could point the finger any way we want - Colbert, Tomlin, Rooney, the player. But one things for sure, Colbert/Cowher/Steelers got really good first round draft picks. And that's pretty much come to a halt.

Why? Probably Obama is a Ravens fan so he sent Rooney overseas.

Mister Pittsburgh
03-28-2013, 09:21 PM
Of course it's Tomlin. Can't blame the lawyer and the golf coach.
Yeah, gotta blame them when the golf coach had Ben in the MVP chatter prior to Ben being Ben and holding the ball looking to make a play. Gotta blame the lawyer too, just cause he isn't the man drafting and the only thing you can really say that is different between him and the old man is that he isn't the old man.

DukieBoy
03-28-2013, 09:53 PM
The question of the quality of player development in the Tomlin Era is fair to ask, and worthwhile for the Steelers to examine critically. IMO.

steelz09
03-28-2013, 10:07 PM
Of course it's Tomlin. Can't blame the lawyer and the golf coach.

lol. I bet Haley had a lot of to do with drafts considering he wasn't even a Steelers coach up until last year.

It's ok, by the time the Steelers fire Tomlin and possibly Colbert, Ben's career will be over.

BradshawsHairdresser
03-28-2013, 11:04 PM
Why is the Redskins' owner writing articles about the Steelers' player development?

Siggy00
03-29-2013, 12:11 AM
lol. I bet Haley had a lot of to do with drafts considering he wasn't even a Steelers coach up until last year.

It's ok, by the time the Steelers fire Tomlin and possibly Colbert, Ben's career will be over.

If you say so.

Stay tuned. This is just getting started.

SS Laser
03-29-2013, 01:34 AM
Come on Crash say it already. Art 2 wants Haley as head coach:rolleyes: What else? oh yea no extension for Ben.:rolleyes: So who will be the next yinzer for defensive coach?:rolleyes: Crash you are funny.:|

squidkid
03-29-2013, 08:34 AM
spot on article

Vader
03-29-2013, 09:37 AM
I totally disagree with the article. It is the drafting IMHO. There is a reason Mendy dropped into the 20s and Sweed fell to the second round. Colbert said that they didn't do their homework on Mendy because they never expected him to be there. They didn't interview him or do a proper check on him. Bruce Davis was not a typical Steeler LBer. He was playing at 236 lbs. Also if coaching is the issue then why has none of these players done anything when they left? Davis has played for the pats* and the 49ers but still can't play. Sweed is so bad he is playing in Canada. He can't even get on an NFL roster. So I don't see a coaching issue here. I see a huge drafting issue.

SteelerOfDeVille
03-29-2013, 09:45 AM
Only 8 of 33 drafted remain? That seems horrid. I wonder how that compares to the rest of the league?
EXACTLY... HOWEVER, i did see another article that mentioned best drafting teams that factored in starters, pro bowls, all pro and super bowls... Read this clip - it's pretty clear the problem is RETENTION, and the article above is not very well thought out.


What makes the Steelers such a quality team in the draft is that they have great success at finding starting-level talent. They've drafted 25 starters in the league, with 19 of those starters coming in the earlier rounds. Those 19 starters drafted between rounds one and four are tied for the second-most of in the NFL.

Simply put, Pittsburgh knows how to find players who can come in pretty quickly and provide solid production. It's a huge reason why they've been such a consistent team over the past decade.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1579957-who-is-the-best-drafting-team-in-the-nfl#/articles/1579957-who-is-the-best-drafting-team-in-the-nfl/page/5

SteelerOfDeVille
03-29-2013, 09:47 AM
I totally disagree with the article. It is the drafting IMHO. There is a reason Mendy dropped into the 20s and Sweed fell to the second round. Colbert said that they didn't do their homework on Mendy because they never expected him to be there. They didn't interview him or do a proper check on him. Bruce Davis was not a typical Steeler LBer. He was playing at 236 lbs. Also if coaching is the issue then why has none of these players done anything when they left? Davis has played for the pats* and the 49ers but still can't play. Sweed is so bad he is playing in Canada. He can't even get on an NFL roster. So I don't see a coaching issue here. I see a huge drafting issue.

again, read the post above... it happens everywhere... the steelers are actually pretty well above average when it comes to finding players...

supersteeler
03-29-2013, 10:00 AM
2010....12-4


2011....12-4



2012..... Injuries, Mistakes, dropped passes, Lack of run game, limited pressure on opposing QB's, INT's at critical times, 21st.ranked offense = 8-8.


2013.....get that 21st rated offense fixed, it could help in a big way.

Vader
03-29-2013, 10:05 AM
again, read the post above... it happens everywhere... the steelers are actually pretty well above average when it comes to finding players...

I read the article and it uses players like Troy and Ben who were drafted before Tomlin. Also did you read the article? Here is what it says:


The Steelers have only drafted nine Pro Bowl players, including two between rounds five and seven. However, even more surprising is that Pittsburgh has only drafted four All-Pro players. Only 16 teams had fewer All-Pro players than the Steelers, despite Pittsburgh having above-average success in recent years.

So obviously they agree with me. They are getting the most out of their players but are drafting average players. What is really happening is that the STeelers have had a core group of very good players (Ben, Troy, Ward, Smith, Ike etc.) and now they are older and the current administration hasn't been able to replace them.

NorthCoast
03-29-2013, 10:06 AM
again, read the post above... it happens everywhere... the steelers are actually pretty well above average when it comes to finding players...

Yea, but you didn't mention this:


The Steelers have only drafted nine Pro Bowl players, including two between rounds five and seven. However, even more surprising is that Pittsburgh has only drafted four All-Pro players. Only 16 teams had fewer All-Pro players than the Steelers, despite Pittsburgh having above-average success in recent years.

So they have found some starters, but they are not special or even above average. Good coaching and gameplanning can make a difference. Again, I point to what Lake has done with the CBs in such a short time. Between rumored locker room issues, player misconduct, and young money attitudes, I fear the HC has failed to instill the proper atmosphere around the team. Maybe the drafting has contributed by taking 'risky' players, who knows. Every season is different, and Tomlin is likely still learning how to handle adversity. I am not ready to run him out of town yet, but there is room for improvement.

Mister Pittsburgh
03-29-2013, 10:24 AM
I think part of it is the positions they are drafting in the early rounds. Is it wise to draft two 3-4 DE's in the first round out of three drafts? Their predecessors were late round picks and a cheap free agent (A.Smith, Keisel, KVO). Is it wise to draft a RB in the first round when he is the 4th RB off the board and its a deep RB class (there were 3 or 4 backs in that draft taken after Mendy that have outperformed him...namely Ray Rice, Jamaal Charles). I personally would of never taken a 3-4 DE in round 1 unless they were a no doubt 100% animal. I would never take a RB in the first round period, especially when you are thin at other positions.

feltdizz
03-29-2013, 10:32 AM
Only 8 of 33 drafted remain? That seems horrid. I wonder how that compares to the rest of the league?

It does seem horrid until you compare our success to other teams during that time span.

SteelerOfDeVille
03-29-2013, 10:35 AM
Guys, of course i read the article... I'm married... selective exclusion!! :p

But, "middle of the bunch with all pro"... it's not "terrible", it's not great... it's average... and i wonder about the wording... "only 16 are have had fewer" means there were likely a handful of teams who were tied... for example, "tied for 10th" sound significantly different, doesn't it?

Anyway, the biggest point is they've drafted more starters than all teams in the NFL except one. that means they're drafting just fine...

grotonsteel
03-29-2013, 10:48 AM
I think part of it is the positions they are drafting in the early rounds. Is it wise to draft two 3-4 DE's in the first round out of three drafts? Their predecessors were late round picks and a cheap free agent (A.Smith, Keisel, KVO). Is it wise to draft a RB in the first round when he is the 4th RB off the board and its a deep RB class (there were 3 or 4 backs in that draft taken after Mendy that have outperformed him...namely Ray Rice, Jamaal Charles). I personally would of never taken a 3-4 DE in round 1 unless they were a no doubt 100% animal. I would never take a RB in the first round period, especially when you are thin at other positions.

+1

Really hard to justify two Rd 1 3-4 DEs especially when they are told to occupy two blockers and not pressurize the QB. One can get those DEs in mid-rounds.

Hood is a 4-3 DT and Heyward in his 3rd year yet to start. Luxury picks and they are not panning out that well.

NorthCoast
03-29-2013, 10:53 AM
I also have been wondering about the Steelers talent evaluation org. We rarely hear them mentioned, but the scout staff is a pretty important part of the org. Has there been a transition there as well? Do they have a bunch of new, inexperienced guys? The scout staff makes their money on Day 2, not Day 1. They are the ones that are bringing talent to the attention of Colbert. It is ultimately Colbert's decisions, but if the players are not "sold" to the org, they don't get picked.

Other thing I would mention, don't discount the coaching. Look no further than SF, tons of high draft picks, mired in mediocrity. Guys like Singletary, Nolan, Erickson, didn't do squat.... until Harbaugh shows up, and now they are in the SB.

steelz09
03-29-2013, 11:22 AM
I agree with a lot of posts from above... just don't want to quote each one.

I'm not a Tomlin hater although I questioned a lot of his game management this year and draft picks in his era including Timmons ever since he was drafted. I also thought he was to "buddy, buddy" with his players and that is why I liked how he put his foot down for the first time in his Steelers coaching career this year although the lack of discipline continued.

I (like most) thought 2008 was a solid draft (especially pick 1 and 2) but obviously everyone including the Steelers were dead wrong.

My #1 problem with Tomlin as a coaching is simple..... WHAT IN GODS NAME IS THE PLAN OF THIS TEAM?!?! Get a plan and execute it. He's all over the map. I don't think Cowher and Colbert were all over the map like Tomlin and Colbert are.

1) Is it smart to draft 2 first round defense ends? In a 4-3? Yes. In a 3-4? No. A first round NT? YES!

2) Timmons drafted as a 3-4 OLB = FAIL and he was drafted to be a OLB. They got a bit lucky that he was able to convert inside . Conversion to a 3-4 ILB took several years (not surprising) and by the time he saw the light, he was due for a monster contract which he got. That is a hell of a risk to take when your drafting so high.

3) Get younger is the strategy, right? Keeping Ike at his salary over Lewis? CB was not a big need at all if Lewis is signed long term and Allen to follow. Now it is a need along with several other positions.

4) Freeney, Urlacher? Again, I thought we wanted to get younger? #1 these aren't good 3-4 fits. #2 they are old. Why sign Urlacher when you already signed Foote? Tomlin and Co. basically said they are going to roll with Worilds as the starter and feel he's ready. Ok... Then why look at Dumervil and Freeney? Add to that, why not just keep Harrison? Harrison for 1 more year is probably better than those two options.

5) Jake Long = Pipe Dream. If you aren't happy with your LT situation, sign a guy that is only 31, has a ton of experience, is cheaper and has been one of our most consistent (and underrated) players... Max Starks. Oh, and he's a leader and has a great relationship with your franchise QB.

6) David Johnson again? Really? Add that to the list. Will Johnson > DJ. And you have Spaeth and Paulson. That is 4 TEs not including WJ. While I'm addressing the TE situation, how dumb was it to release Saunders. Saunders > Paulson, Spaeth, DJ, WJ especially as a pass catching threat.

7) Why not put Leftwich on the IR last year and keep Brian Hoyer if they liked him so much?

8)What were they thinking of signing Breaston and letting go of Cotchery? What do you gain with that? Cotchery isn't bad. Breaston (not young). I don't mind the Plax signing for depth reasons but I just don't get why you would sign Breaston and possibly release Cotchery.

9) Why does it seem like Tomlin is drafting 4-3 players instead of 3-4 players when Tomlin has basically said... you don't fix what ain't broke. If you aren't going to switch to a 4-3 then STOP DRAFTING 4-3 LBers and 1st round DEs!!!

10) I really like Spence but quite honestly, he's extremely undersized to play 3-4 ILB.... He's a instinctive "run and hit" type player which Tomlin likes (i.e. Timmons). Problem is.... 3-4 requires the ability to take on and disengage blocks while also reading the play. At Spence's size, a OG will swallow him up. He might be able to gain SIGNIFICANT bulk and transition to a 3-4 but hopefully he doesn't lose his speed in the process. This assumes he can come back from his injury.

11) Suisham is overpaid and like I said, we'll never win a SB with him as a kicker.

12) Who is the future NT of this team? Tomlin mentioned Hood could play NT. Does Tomlin evaluate each game on tape? Hood has a hard enough time taking up 2 blocks as a DE. He thinks he won't get pushed back at NT? That's laughable. IMO, McClendon might be the answer, or maybe Ta'amu (i liked the pick) or maybe Fangupo... I honestly don't think Tomlin knows who the hell he wants as the future NT because he's all over the map. I hate how he switches these players around like LEGOs. It's one thing to be a dynamic player and learn multiple positions especially if you already excel at 1. But these guys are far from perfecting 1 position let alone 2. Let them focus on 1 position first and foremost. Not being able to identify your future NT is a MAJOR problem in a 3-4.

I've babbled on enough about this.... At the end of the day, it's not necessarily Tomlin intelligence or coaching in my opinion. I don't think he knows what the hell he wants and he lacks a long term plan. How can you successfully build a team by singing your players and/or FAs, draft well and develop your talent if you don't have a long term plan. Develop a plan and execute the draft, FA, etc to meet that plan.

Oviedo
03-29-2013, 11:43 AM
+1

Really hard to justify two Rd 1 3-4 DEs especially when they are told to occupy two blockers and not pressurize the QB. One can get those DEs in mid-rounds.

Hood is a 4-3 DT and Heyward in his 3rd year yet to start. Luxury picks and they are not panning out that well.


Put them in the right scheme and both will thrive. Don't even change to a 4-3 but change to a scheme that allows our DL to shoot the gaps and penetrate versus occupy blockers and I think both Hood and Heyward would thrive. It isn't the players its what they are being told to do.

Watch Ziggy's work out videos from last off season and see the athleticism he possesses then we have a Def Coord that essentially tells him to play a way that nullifies that same athleticism. Just plain dumb but why change to adjust to maximize the skills of your players when you have your template.

steelz09
03-29-2013, 11:52 AM
If you shoot the gaps, teams will run right into the teeth of that essentially exposing that whole strategy.

Or, you could run a 3-4 the right way... Have your LINEBACKERS get pressure on the QB. That assumes your DE's and NT's require 2 blockers. If they don't, your pretty much screwed. Hood and an old Hampton do not require 2 blockers.

Check out this swiss cheese defensive line:

794

Mister Pittsburgh
03-29-2013, 11:57 AM
With Lebeau having this specialized 3-4, how much is he involved in the evaluation and drafting of players? Under Ray Horton it seemed that hardly any DB we drafted developed. We bring in Carnell and suddenly Willie Gay and Keenan Lewis look as if they are solid CB's. Lebeau is a HOF CB and such a genius DC yet it takes a switch at secondary coach to develop players? With Tomlin's experience as a DB coach with Tampa, Lebeaus experience as a DB and as the DC of so many good defenses, plus Carnell, we should have no problem finding a few diamond in the rough safeties in the mid to late rounds yet we haven't been able to do it.

Also, I agree with whoever said it above...why let Keenan Lewis a young CB leave for a relatively cheap contract for a starting CB, and keep Ike who has maybe 2 seasons left. The cost of Ikes contract by keeping him would be relatively equal to Lewis plus Ikes dead money if Ike were cut, and that would only be for a season or two then there would be no dead money...at which point you would have Lewis and Allen starting at CB for years....but now you have Allen and Ike and will be needing to draft and groom a CB very soon.

Vader
03-29-2013, 12:00 PM
Guys, of course i read the article... I'm married... selective exclusion!! :p

But, "middle of the bunch with all pro"... it's not "terrible", it's not great... it's average... and i wonder about the wording... "only 16 are have had fewer" means there were likely a handful of teams who were tied... for example, "tied for 10th" sound significantly different, doesn't it?

Anyway, the biggest point is they've drafted more starters than all teams in the NFL except one. that means they're drafting just fine...

Drafting starters doesn't mean they are drafting fine. Hood is a starter, Gay was a starter but neither should be. Worilds maybe the starter next year but if he sucks does that make him a good draft pick? The issue is that you can't take average players like Hood or Heyward in the 1st round. Just look at the past few drafts. There are few dominant players taken. Yes, they have taken a few "starters" but all teams have starters. Doesn't make them a good team. BTW that article had the pats* at #1 and listed Cassell as a great draft pick... what? Cassell? Yup, the guy that KC ran out on a rail. He was great for the pats* because they were able to rape KC in a bad trade. But he wasn't a good player.

SteelerOfDeVille
03-29-2013, 12:38 PM
Drafting starters doesn't mean they are drafting fine. Hood is a starter, Gay was a starter but neither should be. Worilds maybe the starter next year but if he sucks does that make him a good draft pick? The issue is that you can't take average players like Hood or Heyward in the 1st round. Just look at the past few drafts. There are few dominant players taken. Yes, they have taken a few "starters" but all teams have starters. Doesn't make them a good team. BTW that article had the pats* at #1 and listed Cassell as a great draft pick... what? Cassell? Yup, the guy that KC ran out on a rail. He was great for the pats* because they were able to rape KC in a bad trade. But he wasn't a good player.
one caveat... this says starter sthrought the league... that's gonna include Wallace, Lewis, Urbrik, etc... and not to nitpick, but, Gay (as a 6th rounder or whatever he was) was a FANTASTIC pick... as long as the team understands he's a nickel back and not a starter...

anyway, move along... the Louisville guy is about to hit the road to go watch some college hoops this weekend... Go Cards!! :-)

Vader
03-29-2013, 03:21 PM
one caveat... this says starter sthrought the league... that's gonna include Wallace, Lewis, Urbrik, etc... and not to nitpick, but, Gay (as a 6th rounder or whatever he was) was a FANTASTIC pick... as long as the team understands he's a nickel back and not a starter...

anyway, move along... the Louisville guy is about to hit the road to go watch some college hoops this weekend... Go Cards!! :-)

Like I said, Casell started at KC and was horrible. Just because a player starts doesn't make him a good draft pick. Urbik is starting because the rest of the bills OL blows chunks. He'd never start on an average team. Gay sucked as a starter AND as a nickel back. He had one good year as a NB but even when he was moved back he blew. He was a good pick for the 6th round but isn't a starter and is an average (at best) player.

Go have fun watching Louisville!! Hope they win.

fordfixer
03-29-2013, 07:21 PM
Why is the Redskins' owner writing articles about the Steelers' player development?
He is looking for a new way to build his team, he finally figured out that he can't buy a Super Bowl:-)