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View Full Version : Are The Fans assuming too much by what Colbert said at seasons end?



supersteeler
02-15-2013, 08:13 AM
Colbert's remarks after the season ended gave an indication we may lose a substancial amount of players this coming season due to the cap issues.
Are we assuming too much by what he said back then? Now that the dust is starting to settle Mr. Colbert might be singing a different tune knowing if they cut too many we could wind up even with a worse record.

We are led to believe the cap issues are so dire they can't be fixed without eliminating more players than they want to.
There will be cuts, but I'm not sure they will be the magnitude of what we are expecting, with Omar Khan working contracts it may turn out completely different when all is said and done.

He stated we better have players in place for the ones that will be released, but do we? When Troy and Harrison were out, there was a big drop off in play, not until they came back did we see the defense pick it up and our secondary played better too with them back.

I'm thinking Omar Khan might have to do his best work ever this off season, give him a pen and some numbers and I trust it won't be as bad as projected when this thing is settled.

BradshawsHairdresser
02-15-2013, 09:39 AM
Khan is very good at what he does, but even he is no magician. I don't think Colbert would have said what he said unless he was trying to prepare us for the release of some "major players" (no pun intended).

squidkid
02-15-2013, 09:43 AM
even if he can push a few contracts back, where does that put us in 2-4 years?
i'm all for cutting deep this year.

Oviedo
02-15-2013, 09:49 AM
Khan is very good at what he does, but even he is no magician. I don't think Colbert would have said what he said unless he was trying to prepare us for the release of some "major players" (no pun intended).

I think the salary cap situation indicates that Colbert meant exactly what he said unless some vets are prepared to play for much less.

Mister Pittsburgh
02-15-2013, 09:56 AM
Colbert's remarks after the season ended gave an indication we may lose a substancial amount of players this coming season due to the cap issues.
Are we assuming too much by what he said back then? Now that the dust is starting to settle Mr. Colbert might be singing a different tune knowing if they cut too many we could wind up even with a worse record.

We are led to believe the cap issues are so dire they can't be fixed without eliminating more players than they want to.
There will be cuts, but I'm not sure they will be the magnitude of what we are expecting, with Omar Khan working contracts it may turn out completely different when all is said and done.

He stated we better have players in place for the ones that will be released, but do we? When Troy and Harrison were out, there was a big drop off in play, not until they came back did we see the defense pick it up and our secondary played better too with them back.

I'm thinking Omar Khan might have to do his best work ever this off season, give him a pen and some numbers and I trust it won't be as bad as projected when this thing is settled.

I don't agree. I think the defense was fine, even possibly better, with Troy out. With Harrison, its tough to gauge because even though he was 'there' he wasn't near 100% and our defense still played alright. The defense hit another level though when Harrison started to get healthy near the last quarter of the season. So, when Harrison wasn't all there, would Worilds have been able to perform better? Who knows?

Chadman
02-15-2013, 08:59 PM
I think the salary cap situation indicates that Colbert meant exactly what he said unless some vets are prepared to play for much less.

Think this is spot on. What point is there to Colbert playing mind games at this stage? He's generally been pretty good at telling the media exactly what the plans are, no reason to expect this is any different.

supersteeler
02-16-2013, 07:50 AM
For Steelers, salary cap concerns become imminent
About Alan RobinsonAlan Robinson
Steelers Reporter
Pittsburgh Tribune-Review




How much money teams have committed to salaries next season (cap projected to be $121 million):

Team Salary commitment

Jets $150.3 million

Saints $147.0 million

Cowboys $143.7 million

Steelers $134.8 million

Panthers $132.7 million

Cardinals $127.7 million

49ers $125.9 million

Eagles $123.9 million

Seahawks $122.5 million

Packers $121.5 million

Rams $120.7 million

Chiefs $120.5 million

Broncos $119.6 million

Titans $118.0 million

Vikings $118.0 million

Texans $117.0 million

Falcons $116.6 million

Bears $116.4 million

Chargers $116.2 million

Giants $113.6 million

Lions $113.0 million

Redskins $112.7 million

Raiders $110.8 million

Jaguars $109.3 million

Ravens $107.5 million

Patriots $106.5 million

Buccaneers $104.1 million

Bills $103.7 million

Browns $83.1 million

Dolphins $79.8 million

Colts $77.5 million

Bengals $75.6 million

Figures of as Friday

Source: Spotrac.com


By Alan Robinson

Published: Friday, February 15, 2013, 11:46 p.m.
Updated 7 hours ago

The Steelers are one of only five NFL teams that are more than $10 million above the projected 2013 salary cap of $121 million less than a month before the March 12 compliance deadline.

And it could be worse.

According to salaries compiled by sports contract website Spotrac, the Steelers have $134.8 million committed to players — or about $14 million above the cap.

Still, the Steelers are in better position cap-wise than they were a year ago when they were about $25 million above the cap. They got under by restructuring a number of contracts (Ben Roethlisberger, LaMarr Woodley, Lawrence Timmons, Ike Taylor, Willie Colon) and by cutting ties with veterans James Farrior, Hines Ward, Aaron Smith, Bryant McFadden, Arnaz Battle and Chris Kemoeatu.

The roster could experience a comparable shake-up this year.

Wide receiver Mike Wallace, running back Rashard Mendenhall and offensive linemen Max Starks and Ramon Foster could sign elsewhere. Veterans Casey Hampton, Larry Foote, Willie Colon, Ryan Mundy and Byron Leftwich are among those who could be let go. Cornerback Keenan Lewis is an unrestricted free agent the Steelers are likely to make a primary target.

General manager Kevin Colbert has hinted that significant moves could be made.

“You make decisions to sustain or make decisions to change, and this year we have to make decisions to change,” Colbert said.

The other teams currently well above the cap are the New York Jets ($150.3 million), New Orleans Saints ($147 million), Dallas Cowboys ($143.7 million) and Carolina Panthers ($132.7 million).

The Arizona Cardinals ($127.7 million), San Francisco 49ers ($125.9 million), Philadelphia Eagles ($123.9 million) and Seattle Seahawks ($122.5 million) also are above the cap.

The Steelers have about a half-million dollars in dead money for players no longer on the team whose contracts still count against the cap, $87.8 million in base salaries, $27.6 million in bonus money and $19.9 million in other bonuses.

The Steelers' AFC North rivals are well below the cap, including the Super Bowl champion Baltimore Ravens ($107 million). The Cincinnati Bengals are a league-best $46 million below the cap at $75.6 million, despite making the playoffs the past two seasons. The Cleveland Browns — headed by new, deep-pockets owner Jimmy Haslam — are significantly below the cap at $83.1 million, giving them considerable flexibility to make moves during the free-agent signing period.

The Indianapolis Colts and Miami Dolphins also have enough cap room to make major moves.

In their current position, the Steelers can't chase any of the immediate-impact free agents.

“We've signed significant players (as free agents), but they have been few and far between,” Colbert said. “We have to be open to that, but at what cost?”

As teams head to the scouting combine in Indianapolis next week to evaluate players in the 2013 draft class, the Steelers are expected to begin making moves to get under the cap.

“It will include terminations. It will include (contract) extensions and restructurings,” Colbert said recently. “The combination of the three will get us in compliance. ... But if you want to terminate someone, you'd better have a replacement. If you extend someone, you have to have confidence that player will see it out. If you restructure, you'd better be confident going forward you don't hurt yourself cap-wise.”


Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/3490036-74/million-cap-steelers#ixzz2L3sqZEjc


Follow us: @triblive on Twitter | triblive on Facebook

NorthCoast
02-16-2013, 09:23 AM
I don't agree. I think the defense was fine, even possibly better, with Troy out. With Harrison, its tough to gauge because even though he was 'there' he wasn't near 100% and our defense still played alright. The defense hit another level though when Harrison started to get healthy near the last quarter of the season. So, when Harrison wasn't all there, would Worilds have been able to perform better? Who knows?

I agree and as I said before, it was the play of the defense without these major players that is making the decision to release them somewhat easier.

BradshawsHairdresser
02-16-2013, 11:03 AM
even if he can push a few contracts back, where does that put us in 2-4 years?
i'm all for cutting deep this year.

Steelers probably need to bite the bullet and cut both Harrison and Polamalu. Hopefully, one or both of them will re-sign for much less money, but if not, it's time to move forward...even though our D is bound to suffer for awhile.

We'll need to re-sign Will Allen, but he should come a lot cheaper than Troy. Hopefully Worilds will step up. I agree with a poster in another thread, if Harrison leaves, it might be better to put Woodley on the right side and Worilds on the left.

Hampton is almost certainly gone, but I'd like to see McLendon retained, if it doesn't cost too much. The team will look hard at cutting Kiesel, I think. I hope they find some way to retain Lewis. A few days ago, I didn't think they would cut Ike, but now, I'm starting to wonder.

On the offensive side, Wallace and Mendenhall are likely gone, along with Starks and Foster. I wish Colon could be cut and that money freed up, but the cap hit is prohibitive. Cutting Leftwich will save a million or so.

Some have pointed out that they could restructure players like Miller, Antonio Brown, Woodley, and Ben, but I think it's time to stop with all the restructuring...that's part of the reason we got into this mess, and it makes it almost impossible to think about cutting some underachievers (ie., Woodley) for several years.

Mister Pittsburgh
02-16-2013, 12:21 PM
I keep hearing that Ben will be one of the contracts that get 'restructured' which is essentially paying him a bonus and that hit is seen 'down the road'. Right now he is our franchise QB but is not too far from the end. He played the last quarter of the season and playoff game injured 2 seasons ago, pretty ineffectively I might add, and then was either out injured or playing ineffectively the last half of this past season. Do we want to put ourselves in a hole next season or the one after due to pushing his money down the road?

i would rather trim the fat out now by cutting aged defenders, going young in the process, than have ourselves handcuffed by the cap for years to come. The blame for not having a top 5 or 10 ranked offense can be spread to nearly every aspect of our offense. The bottom line though is we are paying a franchise QB, franchise QB money, so the excuses HAVE TO BE OVER! Time for the offense to put up enough points to cover for a young defense and allow them to struggle through some growing pains that will come with a young defense.

Issues that need addressed for that to happen:

1 - Offensive line injuries have killed us for years. The constant shuffling to inferior backups has to stop. Whether this is fixed by the draft or by cutting enough cap room from the defense is yet to be seen, but going into the season with the offensive linemen we currently have on this roster would pretty much guarantee another season of crappy line play due to injury. Is anyone here even remotely confident Gilbert could play a full season plus playoffs injury free? I would bet that one of our starting 5 OL is injured for A significant stretch if not out for the season by game 8.

2 - We need a major infusion of talent at RB. Mediocre talent and injury has plagued this facet of our team for too long. I would think we need to let Mendenhall and Redman walk. I would tender Dwyer. Then cut Batch. I would then add two backs either both through the draft or one through the draft and one through free agency. We would also add one as an UDFA. If you build a top notch OL, young backs can shine.

3 - Our franchise QB has essentially killed the team by being injured in some form or fashion each of the last two seasons. Two years ago he spent the last quarter of the season and lone playoff upset hobbling around like a peg leg pirate grounding our passing attack and throwing game killing interceptions. This past season saw him miss 3 games and come back too early from injury that left a lot to be desired out of his play. Although other factors can be thrown in, two horrible interceptions can be pointed to as reasons for two late season losses. With all of this in mind, the time has come to upgrade both backup QB slots. Once again I would do this by acquiring one free agent and one draft pick to groom. Let's face it, Brady Quinn would be an upgrade over old Charlie Batch and glass man Leftwich. There are some QB's that can be had this draft outside of the first round that could be groomed. Nassib, Bray, Jones could be options, among others.

fezziwig
02-16-2013, 12:34 PM
The Steelers in my opinion need to go back to a heavy rebuilding phase. Cut the big dollar veterans and wait for a couple of nice star players once we have some cap space.

Ben
Brown
Sanders
Pouncey
Decastro
Gilbert
Adams
Beachum

These guys give us some ease of mind on offense. I realize Heath Miller contributes but right now I'm talking about our future and players that will contribute and continue to tribute for our future. Our runningbacks,,,,, This might be an area that once the cap is reduced will have a star player plugged in.

I'm hoping defense gets a shot in the arm too because this side of the ball in my opinion is going to fall very hard and soon.
I'm banking on:

McClendon
Heyward
But all other positions and players are either too expensive to retain such as Lewis, not cutting it such as Hood, Woodley, haven't proved themself such as many of them or too old to rely upon for the future such as Kiesel, Troy, Clark, Taylor, Allen, Hampton.

This team does need to do a total revamp and most of it needs completed on the defensive side of the ball.

Our satus as a number one defense does not impress me. Stats don't win games, players stepping up at the right time wins games. Obviously you can have the great stats and the players that gets you the sacks, turneovers and all that and we did back in the day but, those days are gone and those players are gone.

I have no problem taking a couple of hits with few wins in a season for a couple of seasons if, it means we are rebuilding, grooming and getting higher draft picks.

Chadman
02-16-2013, 09:00 PM
While many of us are keen on cutting the roster deep, Chadman wonders how keen you'd be if the result was a 6-10 season...

In Chadman's opinion the time for a total revamp of this team has already past. And, in fact, the Steelers may have done a sneaky-good job of preparing.

Heyward, Hood, Ta'amu, McLendon, Cortez Allen, Sean Spence, Jason Worilds, Lawrence Timmons, LaMarr Woodley... that's the basis of a pretty good defence.

The next step is preparing to move on from Troy Polamalu, Ryan Clark & Ike Taylor. Chadman purposefully didn't add Keenan Lewis to the list- in Chadman's opinion, he's as gone as Wallace & Mendenhall, the numbers just don't add up.

So Cortez will likely move into a starting spot, and drafting at #17 gives the Steelers, potentially, a shot at one of the top 3 CB's in this draft. The time has well & truly come to draft a Safety or 2 as well.

On Offense, the Steelers have put 4 pieces out of 5 together for the OL in Adams, Pouncey, DeCastro & Gilbert. Maybe Beachum is the fifth piece, maybe not. Would expect to see another OG added at some point in this draft.

The WR's are a quandry. With Wallace moving on we have Brown & Sanders. Not sure either is a genuine #1 WR, but both offer some impact. Would also expect an addition through the draft at WR.

RB is a problem. There is no 'danger' player in the group we have. A genuine threat is required. Look for a speedy type RB to join the team this offseason, most likely as an early draft pick.

Ben..... the team is built around Ben, and will base all it's success & failure on him. Some want to prepare for the future at QB, but really, all that will achieve is a long-term back-up. Ben is simply too expensive to move on from, and when the time comes for him to say goodbye from Pittsburgh- it'll be time to do a complete rebuild. The Steelers will hope to get another 6 years out of Ben, they might get it. Despite what everyone says, Ben is one tough guy & plays injured. He's been injured his whole career. It'll take something pretty dramatic to end his career, and if that happens, well- that's life. The Steelers will have to deal with the situation when it comes to hand. So yeah, add a young QB if you like, but don't invest too heavily, because that guy will only end up starting elsewhere.

The Steelers are old in some areas. But they have done a reasonable job of preparing for this time. It is yet to be determined if the young guys are good enough to replace the old guys- but you can say that for any new draft pick coming in too.

So Chadman expects to see 2-3 vets moved on, like last season, and nearly all our 'good' FA's to move on too. Then the young guys from the last couple of years will move up, and the next batch of rookies are in place to replace next year's Vet culling...

fezziwig
02-17-2013, 12:20 AM
Chadman my friend, I like your opinion.

If the young defensive players as you mentioned step up we have good things to look forward to. I keep thinking Ta'amu must really have something the Steelers favor because you know what the Rooneys are like or especially with the degree of his off field episode.

The offense doesn't worry me a bit. I think our o-line is going to gel, we have Ben, Sanders, Antonio Brown, the veteran receiver that I can't think of his name at the moment. I'm pretty tired right now and my heads cloudy so some of the names are avoiding me at the moment but, the veteran receiver on the team along with a young receiver that has been on the squad and looks pretty good. Say goodbye to Mendenhall because we have two decent guys in Dwyer and Redman. We still need to do better in this area with possibly with some free agency shopping. I wouldn't want to take a runningback first round because our secondary needs that selection. Number two and three also if you ask me.

If guys step up, lose weight, stay healthy and our draft or free agency goes well, we could be smelling playoffs by 2014. One thing is for sure, going 6-10 won't bother me a bit. isn't that where we found Ben at during the time of having a bad team record ?

I have a feeling Heath Miller will be gone after 2014 season. Soon if not now, the Steelers will be looking for a top notched TE.

Chadman
02-17-2013, 03:20 AM
Chadman my friend, I like your opinion.

If the young defensive players as you mentioned step up we have good things to look forward to. I keep thinking Ta'amu must really have something the Steelers favor because you know what the Rooneys are like or especially with the degree of his off field episode.

The offense doesn't worry me a bit. I think our o-line is going to gel, we have Ben, Sanders, Antonio Brown, the veteran receiver that I can't think of his name at the moment. I'm pretty tired right now and my heads cloudy so some of the names are avoiding me at the moment but, the veteran receiver on the team along with a young receiver that has been on the squad and looks pretty good. Say goodbye to Mendenhall because we have two decent guys in Dwyer and Redman. We still need to do better in this area with possibly with some free agency shopping. I wouldn't want to take a runningback first round because our secondary needs that selection. Number two and three also if you ask me.

If guys step up, lose weight, stay healthy and our draft or free agency goes well, we could be smelling playoffs by 2014. One thing is for sure, going 6-10 won't bother me a bit. isn't that where we found Ben at during the time of having a bad team record ?

I have a feeling Heath Miller will be gone after 2014 season. Soon if not now, the Steelers will be looking for a top notched TE.


Go to bed..... You're gibbering. :p

supersteeler
02-17-2013, 09:21 AM
Losing players don't always equate to having a bad season. In some cases it could impact the team in a negative way if they are key players, however having players step up behind them could cushion the impact.
Take last season where we had to cut ties with Aaron Smith, Hoke, Hines Ward, Kemoatu,James Farrior, william gay, Wesly Saunders to name a few. The result dealt us a 8-8 record but it wasn't because we lost those players, it was on account of players who performed well in the past underachieved in 2012.

Out of those 8 games we lost, we easily could of won at least three more games or more considering we lost 5 games by 3 points. Wallace and Brown especially underperformed as well as our backs. Our defense early on was having issues too but overcame them, and we can't forget the many injuries to key players either.

That was the start of our transition and now we move on to the second phase. A healthy unit could make a difference but there is no room for error as we expect to lose quite a few this coming season.
As stated here by many of you we need the second and third year guys to step up in combination of a good draft and it may not turn out as bad as some think.

We think of our second and third year players stepping up but even some vets need to do the same like Lamar Woodley in paticular. I'm thinking we still will have a competitive team but as I stated no room for error and most important we can't have another season with so many injuries this time around, who in the heck is going to replace them.


The silver lining in this was our draft picks last season got playing time like Adams, DeCastro, Paulson, Beachum plus some second and third year players like Worlids getting snaps could help us transition this coming year. It certainly won't be easy and we could very well repeat last seasons record or worse, thats the challenge, to improve from last season and be competitive.

We supported the Steelers when they were winning all those playoff games and Super Bowls, now its time to support them when they need it the most.

Mister Pittsburgh
02-17-2013, 09:38 AM
I could live with 6-10 or even worse next year, IF, after that we are on an upward arc. Right now I feel we are flatlining and the plethora of vets offers us no hope for an upward arc.

NorthCoast
02-17-2013, 09:56 AM
Losing players don't always equate to having a bad season. In some cases it could impact the team in a negative way if they are key players, however having players step up behind them could cushion the impact.
Take last season where we had to cut ties with Aaron Smith, Hoke, Hines Ward, Kemoatu,James Farrior, william gay, Wesly Saunders to name a few. The result dealt us a 8-8 record but it wasn't because we lost those players, it was on account of players who performed well in the past underachieved in 2012.

Out of those 8 games we lost, we easily could of won at least three more games or more considering we lost 5 games by 3 points. Wallace and Brown especially underperformed as well as our backs. Our defense early on was having issues too but overcame them, and we can't forget the many injuries to key players either.

That was the start of our transition and now we move on to the second phase. A healthy unit could make a difference but there is no room for error as we expect to lose quite a few this coming season.
As stated here by many of you we need the second and third year guys to step up in combination of a good draft and it may not turn out as bad as some think.

We think of our second and third year players stepping up but even some vets need to do the same like Lamar Woodley in paticular. I'm thinking we still will have a competitive team but as I stated no room for error and most important we can't have another season with so many injuries this time around, who in the heck is going to replace them.


The silver lining in this was our draft picks last season got playing time like Adams, DeCastro, Paulson, Beachum plus some second and third year players like Worlids getting snaps could help us transition this coming year. It certainly won't be easy and we could very well repeat last seasons record or worse, thats the challenge, to improve from last season and be competitive.

We supported the Steelers when they were winning all those playoff games and Super Bowls, now its time to support them when they need it the most.

On the contrary, some have pointed to AB's brain farts and fumbilitis as causing at least 3 losses. Yes, the vets didnt produce as expected, but young player inexperience also was a factor that can't be discounted.

Chadman
02-17-2013, 10:19 AM
To improve on 8-8 the Steelers need to run the ball better, produce more big plays in the passing offense, rush the QB better & create more turnovers.

Losing players does not mean these things are unachievable.

But it certainly doesn't make it easier.

Not all the answers to the Steelers problems will come from the 2013 draft. Some of the answers... maybe all the answers... need to come from the guys remaining on the roster.

Mister Pittsburgh
02-17-2013, 10:38 AM
To improve on 8-8 the Steelers need to run the ball better, produce more big plays in the passing offense, rush the QB better & create more turnovers.

Losing players does not mean these things are unachievable.

But it certainly doesn't make it easier.

Not all the answers to the Steelers problems will come from the 2013 draft. Some of the answers... maybe all the answers... need to come from the guys remaining on the roster.

if you cut deep, some answers could come from draft, some as affordable free agents, and some absolutely has to come from the younger guys we have working their nuts off this offseason (Woodley, Adams, Gilbert, Beachum, DeCastro, Cortez Allen, Worilds, Ta'amu, McLendon, Hood, Fangupo, Dwyer, Brown, Sanders, Heyward).

Oviedo
02-17-2013, 12:54 PM
I could live with 6-10 or even worse next year, IF, after that we are on an upward arc. Right now I feel we are flatlining and the plethora of vets offers us no hope for an upward arc.

I agree. BTW I like the draft you now have in your sig. Like it a lot! A draft like that could contribute to that upward arc. I think I would prefer DJ Sweringer over Rambo though.

Mister Pittsburgh
02-17-2013, 02:18 PM
I agree. BTW I like the draft you now have in your sig. Like it a lot! A draft like that could contribute to that upward arc. I think I would prefer DJ Sweringer over Rambo though.

Thanks for the draft comments. I think it could be realistic as far as the players listed being available at our pick too.