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Steelhere10
02-14-2013, 08:53 AM
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Former Bears Johnny Knox validates concerns of almost-former Steelers Mike*Wallace

By*SteelCityRoller*on Feb 14, 5:55a*1Jonathan DanielWith a roster grown fat with aging defensive veterans and their championship-worthy salaries, the Steelers found themselves stretching the elasticity of the NFL salary cap Speedo teams are forced to perform within. The team was doing everything it could to keep itself together, hoping nothing unfortunate slipped out the sides along the way.Like it or not,*Mike Wallace*had a point.The*Pittsburgh Steelers*found themselves in a bind heading into 2012 as their top receiver watched his rookie contract expire giving the team the right to offer him a restricted free-agency tender, knowing their second and third receivers would be in the exact same position the following year; meaning the team would need to prepare itself for their impending unrestricted free-agencies.Wallace, while not officially the leader on the depth chart, was definitely the production lead the previous two seasons, as the team found ways to use his unique speed to exploit aggressive defenses or provide a decoy to open zones for*Hines Ward,*Emmanuel Sanders*and*Antonio Brown.With a roster grown fat with aging defensive veterans and their championship-worthy salaries, the Steelers found themselves stretching the elasticity of the NFL salary cap Speedo teams are forced to perform within. The team was doing everything it could to keep itself together, hoping nothing unfortunate slipped out the sides along the way.The team took the safe route and offered Wallace the maximum RFA tender level - $2.742 million - which would have required any team which might consider offering him a better deal to return a first-round draft pick as compensation, should he accept their offer and the Steelers decline to match. This would permit the team to delay any decisions until the following off-season (now) to negotiate new contracts, as they would have a better view of how to handle the well-paid ring bearers clinging onto hopes of one last trophy run.Wallace, however, did not agree. He felt he had earned his spot as the team's top receiver for franchise QB*Ben Roethlisberger, and wanted the team to offer him a long-term contract now. His insistence on immediacy stemmed from a fear of injury without a guaranteed future in the NFL. Had he suffered a career-changing injury while playing for his tender, he would have found a significant decline in his negotiating ranges. He even had no guarantee the Steelers would still want him should such a scenario degrade his natural, physical talents.The team held firm to its decision, and Mike Wallace followed suit by refusing to sign the tender offered by the Steelers. He had little leverage to use a holdout as a negotiating tool. He was holding out to prove to the team how strongly he believed in his fear of a premature end to his NFL career, and how important it was to him to know he would be here long term, no matter what.Fast-forward to 2013, and find reports of former*Chicago Bears*receiver*Johnny Knox, who announced his retirement from the NFL due to injury, after a four year career.Knox took his final hit as an NFL player against the*Seattle Seahawks*in December, 2011. He required spinal fusion surgery the following day, which forced him to miss the entire 2012 campaign. Even with constant rehabilitation, Knox is barely able to walk or stand without pain. Although his heart still has the desire to play, as reflected by his statement regarding playing again following his recent official release by Chicago; his body is no longer able or willing.While the specifics of each situation do not mirror each other perfectly, the similarities between Knox and Wallace are undeniable. Knox would have played under the final year of his rookie contract in 2012. Knox reached the Pro Bowl his rookie season for special teams return performance. In 2010, he was the team's leading receiver, helping the Bears reach the NFC championship game; only to fall to the*Green Bay Packers, who coincidentally went on to beat the Steelers in the*Super Bowl.Knox had performed well enough to warrant the team's consideration regarding a new contract to keep him in Chicago, once he reached the end of his rookie deal's obligations. Unfortunately, Knox never made it so far.This is what Wallace was afraid of. His holdout had little to do with $2.742 million dollars not being enough money for playing a game for a living, or a deep resentment toward the team who showed him the most respect as far as draft selection. He wanted the long-term, secure contract he felt his statistics had earned.Whether it is right for a player to put his own career's wants above the team's overall salary cap problems, or the career-wants of his teammates, is better reserved for a morals and values forum; but each NFL career has its own unpredictable shelf-life with only two certainties - it does have an end, and it's over before you know it.In the end, Wallace escaped the 2012 season virtually unscathed and will enter free-agency without his health scribing stipulations; something Knox's career did not permit.. While Knox would have preferred to use such an opportunity to remain with his original team, Wallace seems intent on securing a contract which will prevent his career from being snuffed out unrewarded, like Knox's.Knox should serve as a lesson to Wallace about being grateful for every opportunity you have to do something you may not be able to tomorrow, to players like Brown to play every day like there is no tomorrow, and to the league and team owners to continue to make the game safer and take care of those men whose lives are devastated and tossed aside after sacrificing their own health and well-being to support the league's very existence.He should also serve as a reminder to fans to appreciate your favorite players while you have the opportunity, because they cannot play forever. Appreciate them while they're here, and what they give for the fans and the teams they worship.They're always gone too soon.* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Share*on FacebookTweet*this post

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123 commentsTop free agency targets for Mike Wallace

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THERE IS*1*COMMENT.*ADD YOURS

Wow- great article.

It really does influence my thinking a bit. I still don’t know about the holding out- 2 million plus is still a lot of money for most people and I still think he should have prepared to have the best season he could. However, I do see the value of his concerns more clearly now. Great example in Knox to show the other side of the story.I will assume Mike Wallace’s contract will be an absolute monster of a deal somewhere. Are there any other bigger names likely to be out there this year? I don’t believe so. I think we should prepare to have our jaws drop fairly soon…"The first key to winning is to not lose." Chuck Nollby*VinnySteel*on*Feb 14, 2013 6:53 AM EST*reply**POST A COMMENT NOW↑ Top of comments*↑ Top of page↑ Articles*↑ Behind the Steel Curtain↑ SB Nation

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Oviedo
02-14-2013, 09:01 AM
Doesn't change my opinion at all. He was offered at least $8M and and an average of $10M according to rerports. His signing bonus alone would allow someone to live very comfortably for the rest of their life. The bottomline is Wallace got greedy and bumbled the negotiations with the Steelers by doing exactly what they ask their players not to do. He then had a down season that will effect his value. That's on him.

supersteeler
02-14-2013, 09:14 AM
Don't mean to mess with your thread but it was tough reading. This may help>http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2013/2/14/3987326/mike-wallace-free-agent-contract-johnny-knox-bears-retirement-injury/in/3614167

Eich
02-14-2013, 09:25 AM
Yes - a brutal read without paragraphs. Here it is again formatted like the original article:


With a roster grown fat with aging defensive veterans and their championship-worthy salaries, the Steelers found themselves stretching the elasticity of the NFL salary cap Speedo teams are forced to perform within. The team was doing everything it could to keep itself together, hoping nothing unfortunate slipped out the sides along the way.

Like it or not, Mike Wallace had a point.

The Pittsburgh Steelers found themselves in a bind heading into 2012 as their top receiver watched his rookie contract expire giving the team the right to offer him a restricted free-agency tender, knowing their second and third receivers would be in the exact same position the following year; meaning the team would need to prepare itself for their impending unrestricted free-agencies.

Wallace, while not officially the leader on the depth chart, was definitely the production lead the previous two seasons, as the team found ways to use his unique speed to exploit aggressive defenses or provide a decoy to open zones for Hines Ward, Emmanuel Sanders and Antonio Brown.

With a roster grown fat with aging defensive veterans and their championship-worthy salaries, the Steelers found themselves stretching the elasticity of the NFL salary cap Speedo teams are forced to perform within. The team was doing everything it could to keep itself together, hoping nothing unfortunate slipped out the sides along the way.

The team took the safe route and offered Wallace the maximum RFA tender level - $2.742 million - which would have required any team which might consider offering him a better deal to return a first-round draft pick as compensation, should he accept their offer and the Steelers decline to match. This would permit the team to delay any decisions until the following off-season (now) to negotiate new contracts, as they would have a better view of how to handle the well-paid ring bearers clinging onto hopes of one last trophy run.

Wallace, however, did not agree. He felt he had earned his spot as the team's top receiver for franchise QB Ben Roethlisberger, and wanted the team to offer him a long-term contract now. His insistence on immediacy stemmed from a fear of injury without a guaranteed future in the NFL. Had he suffered a career-changing injury while playing for his tender, he would have found a significant decline in his negotiating ranges. He even had no guarantee the Steelers would still want him should such a scenario degrade his natural, physical talents.

The team held firm to its decision, and Mike Wallace followed suit by refusing to sign the tender offered by the Steelers. He had little leverage to use a holdout as a negotiating tool. He was holding out to prove to the team how strongly he believed in his fear of a premature end to his NFL career, and how important it was to him to know he would be here long term, no matter what.

Fast-forward to 2013, and find reports of former Chicago Bears receiver Johnny Knox, who announced his retirement from the NFL due to injury, after a four year career.

Knox took his final hit as an NFL player against the Seattle Seahawks in December, 2011. He required spinal fusion surgery the following day, which forced him to miss the entire 2012 campaign. Even with constant rehabilitation, Knox is barely able to walk or stand without pain. Although his heart still has the desire to play, as reflected by his statement regarding playing again following his recent official release by Chicago; his body is no longer able or willing.

While the specifics of each situation do not mirror each other perfectly, the similarities between Knox and Wallace are undeniable. Knox would have played under the final year of his rookie contract in 2012. Knox reached the Pro Bowl his rookie season for special teams return performance. In 2010, he was the team's leading receiver, helping the Bears reach the NFC championship game; only to fall to the Green Bay Packers, who coincidentally went on to beat the Steelers in the Super Bowl.

Knox had performed well enough to warrant the team's consideration regarding a new contract to keep him in Chicago, once he reached the end of his rookie deal's obligations. Unfortunately, Knox never made it so far.

This is what Wallace was afraid of. His holdout had little to do with $2.742 million dollars not being enough money for playing a game for a living, or a deep resentment toward the team who showed him the most respect as far as draft selection. He wanted the long-term, secure contract he felt his statistics had earned.

Whether it is right for a player to put his own career's wants above the team's overall salary cap problems, or the career-wants of his teammates, is better reserved for a morals and values forum; but each NFL career has its own unpredictable shelf-life with only two certainties - it does have an end, and it's over before you know it.

In the end, Wallace escaped the 2012 season virtually unscathed and will enter free-agency without his health scribing stipulations; something Knox's career did not permit.. While Knox would have preferred to use such an opportunity to remain with his original team, Wallace seems intent on securing a contract which will prevent his career from being snuffed out unrewarded, like Knox's.

Knox should serve as a lesson to Wallace about being grateful for every opportunity you have to do something you may not be able to tomorrow, to players like Brown to play every day like there is no tomorrow, and to the league and team owners to continue to make the game safer and take care of those men whose lives are devastated and tossed aside after sacrificing their own health and well-being to support the league's very existence.

He should also serve as a reminder to fans to appreciate your favorite players while you have the opportunity, because they cannot play forever. Appreciate them while they're here, and what they give for the fans and the teams they worship.

They're always gone too soon.

Ghost
02-14-2013, 09:28 AM
I'll be glad when he signs elsewhere just so we can stop talking about him. There are at least 10 teams with over $10 M in cap space. He's going to get a monster deal somewhere. A deal the Steelers can't match based on their own cap and needeing to sign many players in multiple positions. It is what it is. Players come and go. Wallace being a Dolphin won't throw the Steelers into a decade long downword spiral. Time to move on.

Steelhere10
02-14-2013, 09:31 AM
I knew it would be hard to read, I did a quick copy paste from my cell. But OV of they can Woodley, Harrison and Timmons that kind of money they sure could have paid Wallace.

Eich
02-14-2013, 09:33 AM
The article reaffirms my opinion that Wallace was stupid to refuse the Steelers offer. He risked apparently $10M per to go through this season playing scared in hopes of not getting injured and in hopes that someone else would offer him more. Maybe it'll work out for him. But it couuld have cost him everything had he sustained a severe injury by playing scared.

And let's say someone does offer him more than the Steelers did. Does that mean he'll end his career with more money than he would have with the Steelers? That's not a guarantee. If he and Brown both signed with the Steelers, they COULD have been the next Swann and Stallworth if they both worked hard. That kind of brand can bring in lots of extra money in endorsements.

I understand that players have a generally short career and they need to make as much as possible but turning down $10M per from the Steelers (if reports are accurate) comes off as greedy and that you really don't want to be part of this organization.

feltdizz
02-14-2013, 09:57 AM
Wallace gets no sympathy from me.. I have no problem with him trying to get paid but it's not like we didn't offer him a contract.

The Knox comparison makes no sense at all...

Chadman
02-14-2013, 10:49 AM
He was offered at least $8M and and an average of $10M according to rerports. His signing bonus alone would allow someone to live very comfortably for the rest of their life.

This is, Chadman would assume, the general thinking of the average Steeler fan.

That's a lot of money, right? Yes- it is. If the Steelers offered Chadman $10m average for 5 years, he'd sign it on the spot- no questions asked.

But that's more than likely due to the fact that $10m average for 5 years is more than Chadman could possibly ever earn.

Not so for Mike Wallace. He obviously feels he can earn better elsewhere- and he's likely right.

Does this make him greedy? Ok- to the average 5 day a week employee, who sees $80k a year as a solid wage, sure- wanting more than $10m a year is greedy. Come live in the real world, right?

But that isn't a star NFL players 'real world'. Their real world is counted in millions, not thousands- and what seems astronomical to us, is 'normal' to them.

Put it this way- if Joe Shmo worked at Company A, and earned $70k a year, but he saw similar jobs in rival companies paying $90k a year- is Joe Shmo greedy to want his wage to go up to $90k? If he'd been employed by Company A as a kid out of school, but saw a higher paying job at Company B come up, should he feel that he can't chase the extra dollars at Company B, because of loyalty to his original employer?

If Chadman was Joe Shmo- he'd jump at Company B's money.

If Wallace feels he deserves more, then who can argue that? If he feels he's going to get more elsewhere than what the Steelers offered him, that doesn't make him 'greedy' any more than Joe Shmo is greedy. Could he live comfortably on $10m? Absolutely. But why should he settle for that if he can get more?

Steelhere10
02-14-2013, 10:54 AM
This is, Chadman would assume, the general thinking of the average Steeler fan.

That's a lot of money, right? Yes- it is. If the Steelers offered Chadman $10m average for 5 years, he'd sign it on the spot- no questions asked.

But that's more than likely due to the fact that $10m average for 5 year is more than Chadman could possibly ever earn.

Not so for Mike Wallace. He obviously feels he can earn better elsewhere- and he's likely right.

Does this make him greedy? Ok- to the average 5 day a week employee, who sees $80k a year as a solid wage, sure- wanting more than $10m a year is greedy. Come live in the real world, right?

But that isn't a star NFL players 'real world'. Their real world is counted in millions, not thousands- and what seems astronomical to us, is 'normal' to them.

Put it this way- if Joe Shmo worked at Company A, and earned $70k a year, but he saw similar jobs in rival companies paying $90k a year- is Joe Shmo greedy to want his wage to go up to $90k? If he'd been employed by Company A as a kid out of school, but saw a higher paying job at Company B come up, should he feel that he can't chase the extra dollars at Company B, because of loyalty to his original employer?

If Chadman was Joe Shmo- he'd jump at Company B's money.

If Wallace feels he deserves more, then who can argue that? If he feels he's going to get more elsewhere than what the Steelers offered him, that doesn't make him 'greedy' any more than Joe Shmo is greedy. Could he live comfortably on $10m? Absolutely. But why should he settle for that if he can get more?
I agree. Like always

Slapstick
02-14-2013, 10:56 AM
This is, Chadman would assume, the general thinking of the average Steeler fan.

That's a lot of money, right? Yes- it is. If the Steelers offered Chadman $10m average for 5 years, he'd sign it on the spot- no questions asked.

But that's more than likely due to the fact that $10m average for 5 years is more than Chadman could possibly ever earn.

Not so for Mike Wallace. He obviously feels he can earn better elsewhere- and he's likely right.

Does this make him greedy? Ok- to the average 5 day a week employee, who sees $80k a year as a solid wage, sure- wanting more than $10m a year is greedy. Come live in the real world, right?

But that isn't a star NFL players 'real world'. Their real world is counted in millions, not thousands- and what seems astronomical to us, is 'normal' to them.

Put it this way- if Joe Shmo worked at Company A, and earned $70k a year, but he saw similar jobs in rival companies paying $90k a year- is Joe Shmo greedy to want his wage to go up to $90k? If he'd been employed by Company A as a kid out of school, but saw a higher paying job at Company B come up, should he feel that he can't chase the extra dollars at Company B, because of loyalty to his original employer?

If Chadman was Joe Shmo- he'd jump at Company B's money.

If Wallace feels he deserves more, then who can argue that? If he feels he's going to get more elsewhere than what the Steelers offered him, that doesn't make him 'greedy' any more than Joe Shmo is greedy. Could he live comfortably on $10m? Absolutely. But why should he settle for that if he can get more?

Now, it just remains to be seen if, based upon his last year-and-a-half, Wallace will be able to get more...

Chadman
02-14-2013, 10:57 AM
Wallace gets no sympathy from me.. I have no problem with him trying to get paid but it's not like we didn't offer him a contract.

The Knox comparison makes no sense at all...

Not sure 'sympathy' is what he's looking for- or what "Wallace fans" are looking for. Certainly not what Chadman is looking for in his defense of Wallace. You are spot on- he got offered a contract, he chose to reject it.

Chadman's problem with the whole thing is not so much that the Steelers couldn't get Wallace signed.

It's the over-reaction to it that bothers Chadman. Signing Brown to that big contract was unnecessary. Brown would have been a RFA now, not UFA. The Steelers could have done with Brown what they did with Wallace- offer him the highest tender of just over $2m, and then negotiated a longer contract next year. Instead, he'll cost $6.2m against the cap, that the Steelers currently sit $16m over. How many players are going to be cut in order to accomodate Brown's contract?

All good that they have him signed up long term. But they jumped too early, and results last year suggest they overspent on a one year sensation. The difference to signing Wallace is that Wallace had 3 years of production under his belt, Brown had 1. Chadman makes no secret that he's a gambler, and if he were to put money on who offers the safer bet- it'd be Wallace every time.

Chadman
02-14-2013, 10:59 AM
Now, it just remains to be seen if, based upon his last year-and-a-half, Wallace will be able to get more...

Conversely, it now waits to be seen if based on the last 12 months, the Steelers overspent on Brown too.

phillyesq
02-14-2013, 11:04 AM
I get the argument for security, the possibility of injury, etc. What Wallace failed to appreciate, however, is that this security comes with a price when you are under team control. If he wanted that security last year, he should have taken the deal the Steelers offered (assuming the reports are true). He obviously chose the other path, opting against security and instead taking a risk and hoping for a bigger payout.

Eich
02-14-2013, 12:23 PM
I get the argument for security, the possibility of injury, etc. What Wallace failed to appreciate, however, is that this security comes with a price when you are under team control. If he wanted that security last year, he should have taken the deal the Steelers offered (assuming the reports are true). He obviously chose the other path, opting against security and instead taking a risk and hoping for a bigger payout.

And in the process, he played scared in 2012 - trying to make sure he didn't get injured, which hurt the team. THAT'S what I have a problem with. If you decide to shun the Steelers' offer (which would make him more wealthy than most people on the planet) so that you can get more money elsewhere - fine - I don't fault him for that. But then at least honor the contract you HAVE and play the best ball you can play and let the cards fall where they may.

If security was his main concern, he should have taken the Steelers' offer. Then he's set for life regardless of what happens in 2012. But top money was his main concern. So, man-up and play lights out for that next contract, instead of playing scared hoping your next contract will come based on past performances.

Oviedo
02-14-2013, 12:40 PM
We'll see what Wallace actually signs for. I believe it will be less than Wallace and his Fan Club would believe. I think the past season should rightly raise some red flags to anyone looking to sign him and give him a big payday. I've seen nothing that suggests that he will maintain a high motivation level once he has that big contract. After all, by his own admission he "loses focus" and let's not forget that once Brown started to take the limelight away in the second half of 2011 it was well documented that he was pouting.

If he can get his money good for him. No doubt some NFL team will be stupid enough to dump a ton of money on the "one trick pony," but with what we know of his mental make up after the past year and half how do you think he will handle the pressure to perform? Just glad the Steelers won't be the ones tying up that much money.

Shawn
02-14-2013, 12:49 PM
Doesn't change my opinion at all. He was offered at least $8M and and an average of $10M according to rerports. His signing bonus alone would allow someone to live very comfortably for the rest of their life. The bottomline is Wallace got greedy and bumbled the negotiations with the Steelers by doing exactly what they ask their players not to do. He then had a down season that will effect his value. That's on him.

Agreed, it seems he was offered a healthy contract, one that would set him for life in case of injury. He decides not to sign it and play without guarantees. Now, we are supposed to feel sorry for him? No, not buying it.

feltdizz
02-14-2013, 01:24 PM
Not sure 'sympathy' is what he's looking for- or what "Wallace fans" are looking for. Certainly not what Chadman is looking for in his defense of Wallace. You are spot on- he got offered a contract, he chose to reject it.

Chadman's problem with the whole thing is not so much that the Steelers couldn't get Wallace signed.

It's the over-reaction to it that bothers Chadman. Signing Brown to that big contract was unnecessary. Brown would have been a RFA now, not UFA. The Steelers could have done with Brown what they did with Wallace- offer him the highest tender of just over $2m, and then negotiated a longer contract next year. Instead, he'll cost $6.2m against the cap, that the Steelers currently sit $16m over. How many players are going to be cut in order to accomodate Brown's contract?

All good that they have him signed up long term. But they jumped too early, and results last year suggest they overspent on a one year sensation. The difference to signing Wallace is that Wallace had 3 years of production under his belt, Brown had 1. Chadman makes no secret that he's a gambler, and if he were to put money on who offers the safer bet- it'd be Wallace every time.

If Wallace gets a crazy offer from another team Brown would surely do the same exact thing to get a similar pay day.

steelz09
02-14-2013, 01:26 PM
I don't want Wallace for an average of 10 mil / year, or even 9 mil / year.

I MIGHT consider 8 mil / year and that is a huge MIGHT.

He might get a lot of money from another franchise. Good for him. I just hope it's not with the Steelers.

Mister Pittsburgh
02-14-2013, 01:31 PM
If someone wants pay Wallace a huge chunk of change, more power to them. I just personally don't think he is that good. I think he is an incomplete WR. I think all it would take is one bad ankle or knee injury and he is done just like Willie Parker. Once that speed is lessened even a little bit, it's over for guys like Wallace.

Brown will shift back out to running Wallace routes, put up great numbers, and is a much more complete WR then Wallace. I'm glad we signed the one and not the other.

Oviedo
02-14-2013, 01:32 PM
I don't want Wallace for an average of 10 mil / year, or even 9 mil / year.

I MIGHT consider 8 mil / year and that is a huge MIGHT.

He might get a lot of money from another franchise. Good for him. I just hope it's not with the Steelers.

That is what the Steelers offered at about $8 to start and going up. The Wallace Fan Club wants to forget that the Steelers are pretty good at this stuff and the vast majority of the time they usually have the value of a player pegged exactly where it should be. Let the other teams be stupid and overpay.

I trust the front office will get this all right in the long term. If they decided to part ways with Wallace they have a plan.

Eddie Spaghetti
02-14-2013, 01:53 PM
I hope the antonio brown fan club uses the same judgements if he has another down year about how the front office is correct in how they value players.

the steelers had a huge bargain in wallace whether the anti wallace crowd will admit it or not.

mike wallace didn't make the rules, he just played by them. Now he is about to get paid bigtime. Good on him.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
02-14-2013, 02:09 PM
The fact that this article refuses to mention that the team offered a significant long-term contract shows the writer's bias. It would be one thing if he had stated that "they made an offer, but Wallace considered it to be too low", but to ignore it shows a skew, therefore the entire article lacks trust.

Oviedo
02-14-2013, 03:34 PM
I hope the antonio brown fan club uses the same judgements if he has another down year about how the front office is correct in how they value players.

the steelers had a huge bargain in wallace whether the anti wallace crowd will admit it or not.

mike wallace didn't make the rules, he just played by them. Now he is about to get paid bigtime. Good on him.

At least the Brown Fan Club will have a Steeler to root for and pull for who is helping the Steelers. Wallace's boys will have nothing but memories.;)

Steelerphile
02-14-2013, 03:35 PM
As long as Antonio Brown stays away from significant injury, which is true for every player in the NFL, he won't become a bad player. He has already proven to be a tireless effort player, with sticky fingers, for the most part. The players who decline are the ones who don't invest the energy to work on their craft. Brown will only improve because he is a dedicated worker. The Steelers were around him long enough see that.

As for the money is everything argument, (If you can get 20K more somewhere else, you are stoopid if you don't go for it). I don't place as much emphasis on money as that. There are many other factors that determine quality of life, IMO, than the digits in the bank book. The difference between 8 million or 10 million to Mike Wallace, or anyone I think, is meaningless in terms of quality of life. With either sum, you have more than enough to meet basic needs and then the excess, you play with. He probably doesn't have any plans for the money, so he may just throw away on bad investments, gambling, material things that he rarely uses or enjoys. More money like that is solely for the momentary ego gratification of knowing someone valued you enough to give it to you. After that, the feeling and meaning of it is over.

Going from low-middle class to upper middle class is more significant than the move from wealthy to a bit more wealthy.

pittpete
02-14-2013, 03:36 PM
Their stats over the last 2 years in which Wallace was a starter
Wallace 31 games 136-2029-16td
Brown 29 games 135-1895-7td 1td return

Brown missed 3 games last year and part of another and had 3 less TD's than Wallace
Pretty even in everything except TDs scored from 2011 where Mike wins out 8-2
Brown also seems to have a great work ethic and wants to be in Pittsburgh
Just saying

Oviedo
02-14-2013, 03:58 PM
Their stats over the last 2 years in which Wallace was a starter
Wallace 31 games 136-2029-16td
Brown 29 games 135-1895-7td 1td return

Brown missed 3 games last year and part of another and had 3 less TD's than Wallace
Pretty even in everything except TDs scored from 2011 where Mike wins out 8-2
Brown also seems to have a great work ethic and wants to be in Pittsburgh
Just saying

But Wallace runs fast;)

feltdizz
02-14-2013, 04:05 PM
I hope the antonio brown fan club uses the same judgements if he has another down year about how the front office is correct in how they value players.

the steelers had a huge bargain in wallace whether the anti wallace crowd will admit it or not.

mike wallace didn't make the rules, he just played by them. Now he is about to get paid bigtime. Good on him.


we will..

have fun rooting for Wallace when he is in another jersey...

Eddie Spaghetti
02-14-2013, 04:13 PM
we will..

have fun rooting for Wallace when he is in another jersey...

unnecessary. Your true fandom has been noted for the record.

I just don't believe brown will ever be a true #1, even though he is getting paid like one.

and for the anti-wallace crowd to think the offense won't suffer without him are completely delusional.

Slapstick
02-14-2013, 04:19 PM
unnecessary. Your true fandom has been noted for the record.

I just don't believe brown will ever be a true #1, even though he is getting paid like one.

and for the anti-wallace crowd to think the offense won't suffer without him are completely delusional.

Don't get crazy...

Part of the reason Wallace's stats fell is presumably because Haley's offense doesn't emphasize the deep pass...

That being the case, how much can the offense suffer?

Eddie Spaghetti
02-14-2013, 04:22 PM
I'm not sure I want to find out.

I just find the vitriol for wallace to be over the top by most here. I don't blame a guy for wanting to be paid commiserate with his talent level and production. I guess everyone in the anti-wallace group would readily sign up for less than what their peers make. Glad I'm not balancing their checkbook.

I see a lot of FGs in our future, but that's what we were getting last year with this new and improved offense, so saving money is a wash.

steelz09
02-14-2013, 04:24 PM
I don't understand why people want to pay elite money for Wallace. I hear the argument "He's a legit deep threat" or the "offense will struggle". The "offense will struggle"? Yea, let's pay a guy 10+ mil a year because the offense MIGHT struggle.

To me, he isn't elite and I can list several reasons why. I'm not a Wallace hater. I would love to have Wallace back on the team but I would refuse to bring him back for elite $$. It's that simple.

The same people that want to pay Wallace huge money because of depth/need at the WR position are the same people that would reach for a player in the 1st round of the draft because of "need". That is not how the Steelers operate. They won't be held hostage by a WR because of "need" or "depth". They don't typically draft based on "need" alone either. They draft BPA at a position of need. That is a BIG difference because several positions are taken into consideration.

I don't want the Steelers to pay Mike Wallace 10/mil + per because of need. You pay him the $ because he's worth that dollar amount.... I don't think he's worth even close to that figure.

Eddie Spaghetti
02-14-2013, 04:40 PM
so is AB elite? The steelers seem to think he is close judging by his shiny new contract.

doesn't compute. Wallace is the better player, that's all I'm saying.

and they will miss him in the offense. There is no "might" about it. Can they get it done in other ways, I hope so but I'm not convinced.

steelz09
02-14-2013, 04:46 PM
so is AB elite? The steelers seem to think he is close judging by his shiny new contract.

doesn't compute. Wallace is the better player, that's all I'm saying.

and they will miss him in the offense. There is no "might" about it. Can they get it done in other ways, I hope so but I'm not convinced.

Ok... so we should pay Wallace 10 million + because we'll miss him? You want to pay him more $ than Brandon Marshall? Why? Overpaying for a player is not the answer. I pay him the $ because #1 he deserves it and #2 he'll continue to deserve it and continue progressing. I don't see either being the case.

And... I don't think Wallace is the better overall WR. Still and always will be a one-trick-poney.

Eddie Spaghetti
02-14-2013, 04:52 PM
doesn't matter now as there isn't any money to pay wallace even if they wanted to.

agree to disagree on who is the better player, the numbers certainly back wallace whether you continue to deride him as a one trick pony or not. That's a nice trick to have in any case.

I hope you guys are right about AB and certainly love the guys toughness and commitment to the team, but he is going to enter a brave new world next season when opposing DCs don't have to account for wallaces one lousy trick. Hope it works out.

Eich
02-14-2013, 04:59 PM
so is AB elite? The steelers seem to think he is close judging by his shiny new contract.

doesn't compute. Wallace is the better player, that's all I'm saying.

and they will miss him in the offense. There is no "might" about it. Can they get it done in other ways, I hope so but I'm not convinced.

I don't agree at all that Wallace is the better player. He might be more physically gifted - I don't know. But Mike does one thing really well - flies. His hands are definitely not better than Brown's, his routes aren't better than Brown's and he doesn't appear to have the same heart.

"Get it done" without Wallace? We got it done with Hines Ward, Randle El and Cedrick Wilson. We can surely get it done with Antonio Brown, Sanders, Cotchery/Plax and/or whomever else they get to plug in there.

If we want to upgrade the receiver position, we need a guy like Boldin or Fitz who can out-physical the opponent and attack the ball. Wallace won't ever be that. Maybe we'll be lucky and find one to compliment AB.

steelz09
02-14-2013, 05:08 PM
I don't agree at all that Wallace is the better player. He might be more physically gifted - I don't know. But Mike does one thing really well - flies. His hands are definitely not better than Brown's, his routes aren't better than Brown's and he doesn't appear to have the same heart.

"Get it done" without Wallace? We got it done with Hines Ward, Randle El and Cedrick Wilson. We can surely get it done with Antonio Brown, Sanders, Cotchery/Plax and/or whomever else they get to plug in there.

If we want to upgrade the receiver position, we need a guy like Boldin or Fitz who can out-physical the opponent and attack the ball. Wallace won't ever be that. Maybe we'll be lucky and find one to compliment AB.

I like DeAndre Hopkins from Clemson. He has speed, body control and catches the ball at it's highest point. He will be a good player in the pros and is proven at the college level.

Eddie Spaghetti
02-14-2013, 05:20 PM
I don't agree at all that Wallace is the better player. He might be more physically gifted - I don't know. But Mike does one thing really well - flies. His hands are definitely not better than Brown's, his routes aren't better than Brown's and he doesn't appear to have the same heart.

"Get it done" without Wallace? We got it done with Hines Ward, Randle El and Cedrick Wilson. We can surely get it done with Antonio Brown, Sanders, Cotchery/Plax and/or whomever else they get to plug in there.

If we want to upgrade the receiver position, we need a guy like Boldin or Fitz who can out-physical the opponent and attack the ball. Wallace won't ever be that. Maybe we'll be lucky and find one to compliment AB.

the guys you mentioned at WR had a superb running game behind them, not to mention a HOF in ward. This group doesn't have anything close to that. Do you honestly believe that this WR group is capable of winning a championship? I don't.

and I can't help but find it amusing that we now need a fitz type WR to "compliment" our highest paid player at that position. Doesn't add up. WR is a huge need in this draft, but most rookie WRs don't contribute in year 1. I hope there is a p,an in place, but it sure doesn't look like it.

squidkid
02-14-2013, 06:27 PM
F wallace. i still hope he gets severley injured before FA and cost him millions. the guy sold us out and the team in 2012 so not to get injured. wallace cares about wallace and nobody else. there is not 1 single NFL player that sacrifices his body for the fans, they all do it for the money. any fan that thinks a player cares for us is an idiot. if these players cared about getting injured more than making a ton of money they would all fall back on that free educatuion they received and work at a real job. name 1 player that decided to quit the nfl on their own and decide to work for 30-50K a year.

pittpete
02-14-2013, 06:29 PM
Why are people that don't feel Wallace is the teams biggest priority labeled "Anti Wallace?"
Sh-t, I loved Yancey Thigpen and we some how survived.
I also thought Plax was a great asset to the Steelers but we managed.
Calling people delusional because we think we can make it w/o Wallace is just delusional:p

Eddie Spaghetti
02-14-2013, 06:59 PM
F wallace. i still hope he gets severley injured before FA and cost him millions.

stay classy.

ikestops85
02-14-2013, 07:09 PM
Their stats over the last 2 years in which Wallace was a starter
Wallace 31 games 136-2029-16td
Brown 29 games 135-1895-7td 1td return

Brown missed 3 games last year and part of another and had 3 less TD's than Wallace
Pretty even in everything except TDs scored from 2011 where Mike wins out 8-2
Brown also seems to have a great work ethic and wants to be in Pittsburgh
Just saying

Wallace also has a great work ethic and has said he would prefer to stay in Pittsburgh. Just sayin' :wink:

I don't know why people think his work ethic has disappeared. I believe he worked out with Shaw last summer waiting to sign the tender. That doesn't sound like a guy with a poor work ethic to me.

Chadman
02-14-2013, 07:42 PM
Why are people that don't feel Wallace is the teams biggest priority labeled "Anti Wallace?"
Sh-t, I loved Yancey Thigpen and we some how survived.
I also thought Plax was a great asset to the Steelers but we managed.
Calling people delusional because we think we can make it w/o Wallace is just delusional:p

To be honest Pete, don't think the issue is about if Wallace is the #1 priority or not, but more the venom directed his way- as if 2012's failures lays fairly & squarley on the shoulders of Mike Wallace..

(before you all jump up & down saying that's not what you think- that was a gross generalisation).

Will the Steelers survive losing Wallace? Yes.
Will they be as good without Wallace in 2013? Probably not.
Is he the worst human being on Earth & deserve his career to be cut short because he didn't sign with the Steelers? It could be argued that some feel that way.


Chadman still is waiting for someone to address what he thinks is the bigger issue. The Steelers dumped a whole boatload of money on Antonio Brown as a result of not getting Wallace signed, a year before he became a RFA.

think about that- RFA. that means, in this FA period coming up, they could have retained Brown's playing rights using the TOP tender & only pay him just above $2m.

Instead, he'll cost $6.2 million this season (prior to the now necessary restructure- which will increase his cost next year, and the year after that).

It's not like the FO didn't KNOW how they'd be against the Salary Cap in 2013. Heck- we knew this last season.

So, in what can easily be argued was a direct reaction (over reaction) to Mike Wallace rejecting the Steelers offer, the Steelers invested heavily in a guy with 1 year's success under his belt, at the cost of how many Vets this season who will be cut because the Steelers can't fit under the cap?

It was a BAD business decision.

It's not Wallace's fault. It's not Brown's fault.

The FO screwed up. And Chadman believes it was simply because they had their nose out of joint at not being able to secure Mike Wallace on what the Steelers thought was a good deal.

All good that they secured Brown long term. He could very well be a good WR in the future. 2012 doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in that- although that appears to get overlooked, possibly because he did what many fans think ALL players should do- agree to what the Steelers offer.

But when the Steelers have to draft a rookie WR to replace Wallace, a rookie RB to replace Mendenhall, a rookie OLB to replace Harrison, a rookie ILB to replace Foote, or any other rookie to replace a Vet cut or not re-signed this season because the Steelers can't afford them- just consider how far that $4 difference between $2 RFA tenders & $6.2m contract's to WR's would have gone to not forcing a complete rebuild this season.

fezziwig
02-14-2013, 08:33 PM
I'm not upset at Wallace. He has done what he feels he needed to do or will do. With that being said, the 8 million or 10 million should be enough for a person. I look at everything as a whole with my life or a persons life. Am I happy, am I healthy am I among my family and friends do I enjoy what I do and so on and am I providing for my family ? I would say I am 95% to the positive of my goals. I live near my family, everyones healthy, I'm happy but could I use more money ? Yes. Would I leave all that I have or accomplished or would I spend less time from home to make more money ? No.

Wallace should appreciate what he has a Steeler, the team that took him in, the friends he has, the history he has and all the positives. The trouble with that is, Pitsburgh isn't his home, he could be signed to a great team, he will make new friends and he'll get paid mega millions. It's obviously just a job to him and he's out for every dollar he can get.
I'm sure many of us know people with his attitude towards money. Probably not people with his kind of earning power but the character is still there.

We won't go down the tubes without Wallace and with Haley as a coach, he may not fit ino the plans anyway or at least not mean as much as he did with an Arians offense. It's tough to see him go but this team has more issues than losing Wallace.

8467thekraken
02-14-2013, 08:39 PM
F wallace. i still hope he gets severley injured before FA and cost him millions. the guy sold us out and the team in 2012 so not to get injured. wallace cares about wallace and nobody else. there is not 1 single NFL player that sacrifices his body for the fans, they all do it for the money. any fan that thinks a player cares for us is an idiot. if these players cared about getting injured more than making a ton of money they would all fall back on that free educatuion they received and work at a real job. name 1 player that decided to quit the nfl on their own and decide to work for 30-50K a year.

Pat Tillman comes to mind.

NJ-STEELER
02-15-2013, 03:08 AM
Doesn't change my opinion at all. He was offered at least $8M and and an average of $10M according to rerports. His signing bonus alone would allow someone to live very comfortably for the rest of their life. .

so, what was that signing bonus he was offered?? because that (most likely) was the sticking point. average per year means little because NFL contracts are not guaranteed.

the differences of say a $22M SB and a $10M SB is a heck of a lot. especially for someone who outplayed his comapritvely meager 350K/yr or so rookie contract

NJ-STEELER
02-15-2013, 03:12 AM
To be honest Pete, don't think the issue is about if Wallace is the #1 priority or not, but more the venom directed his way- as if 2012's failures lays fairly & squarley on the shoulders of Mike Wallace..

(before you all jump up & down saying that's not what you think- that was a gross generalisation).

Will the Steelers survive losing Wallace? Yes.
Will they be as good without Wallace in 2013? Probably not.
Is he the worst human being on Earth & deserve his career to be cut short because he didn't sign with the Steelers? It could be argued that some feel that way.


Chadman still is waiting for someone to address what he thinks is the bigger issue. The Steelers dumped a whole boatload of money on Antonio Brown as a result of not getting Wallace signed, a year before he became a RFA.

think about that- RFA. that means, in this FA period coming up, they could have retained Brown's playing rights using the TOP tender & only pay him just above $2m.

Instead, he'll cost $6.2 million this season (prior to the now necessary restructure- which will increase his cost next year, and the year after that).

It's not like the FO didn't KNOW how they'd be against the Salary Cap in 2013. Heck- we knew this last season.

So, in what can easily be argued was a direct reaction (over reaction) to Mike Wallace rejecting the Steelers offer, the Steelers invested heavily in a guy with 1 year's success under his belt, at the cost of how many Vets this season who will be cut because the Steelers can't fit under the cap?

It was a BAD business decision.

It's not Wallace's fault. It's not Brown's fault.

The FO screwed up. And Chadman believes it was simply because they had their nose out of joint at not being able to secure Mike Wallace on what the Steelers thought was a good deal.

All good that they secured Brown long term. He could very well be a good WR in the future. 2012 doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in that- although that appears to get overlooked, possibly because he did what many fans think ALL players should do- agree to what the Steelers offer.

But when the Steelers have to draft a rookie WR to replace Wallace, a rookie RB to replace Mendenhall, a rookie OLB to replace Harrison, a rookie ILB to replace Foote, or any other rookie to replace a Vet cut or not re-signed this season because the Steelers can't afford them- just consider how far that $4 difference between $2 RFA tenders & $6.2m contract's to WR's would have gone to not forcing a complete rebuild this season....

well said

Slapstick
02-15-2013, 07:00 AM
Chadman still is waiting for someone to address what he thinks is the bigger issue. The Steelers dumped a whole boatload of money on Antonio Brown as a result of not getting Wallace signed, a year before he became a RFA.

think about that- RFA. that means, in this FA period coming up, they could have retained Brown's playing rights using the TOP tender & only pay him just above $2m.

Instead, he'll cost $6.2 million this season (prior to the now necessary restructure- which will increase his cost next year, and the year after that).

It's not like the FO didn't KNOW how they'd be against the Salary Cap in 2013. Heck- we knew this last season.

So, in what can easily be argued was a direct reaction (over reaction) to Mike Wallace rejecting the Steelers offer, the Steelers invested heavily in a guy with 1 year's success under his belt, at the cost of how many Vets this season who will be cut because the Steelers can't fit under the cap?

It was a BAD business decision.

It's not Wallace's fault. It's not Brown's fault.

The FO screwed up. And Chadman believes it was simply because they had their nose out of joint at not being able to secure Mike Wallace on what the Steelers thought was a good deal.

All good that they secured Brown long term. He could very well be a good WR in the future. 2012 doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in that- although that appears to get overlooked, possibly because he did what many fans think ALL players should do- agree to what the Steelers offer.

But when the Steelers have to draft a rookie WR to replace Wallace, a rookie RB to replace Mendenhall, a rookie OLB to replace Harrison, a rookie ILB to replace Foote, or any other rookie to replace a Vet cut or not re-signed this season because the Steelers can't afford them- just consider how far that $4 difference between $2 RFA tenders & $6.2m contract's to WR's would have gone to not forcing a complete rebuild this season.

Perhaps...

Or, someone could argue that it would have been a worse business decision to go into 2013 with only Jerricho Cotchery under contract...

Think about it...so many people post on this board that, last season, it was fine for Wallace to skip workouts and training camp because "he was not under contract"...fine...

If the Steelers had not signed Brown, he would not be "under contract"...starting in March, Emmanuel Sanders will not be "under contract"...

So, where would the Steelers be if their top three WRs were not under contract, either RFA or UFA? What would happen if, after seeing what Wallace did last year, both Brown and Sanders decided that they didn't feel like coming to any workouts or training camp?

How would the Steelers offense look then?

Having an RFA WR isn't the same thing as having a WR...Mike Wallace proved that to us (and the Steelers) last year...

So, what you call a "bad business decision" because the "FO's nose was out of joint", I call "foresight" and "insurance"....I call NOT signing Brown, "putting your team in a terrible negotiating position" with ANY free agent WR, let alone the guys you drafted...

BAD business decision?

I disagree...

Mister Pittsburgh
02-15-2013, 09:17 AM
I don't think it is so much that fans think that Wallace is a 'lazy' player or not a hard worker as far as 'working out'. I think the big gripe is that he is a p*ssy. Instances of this sort of behavior are on film and occurred multiple times. We all saw Ben throw passes down the sideline that were maybe underthrown where Wallace turns, has plenty of time to make a break for the ball, but a defender is there so he stands and watches the defender either easily knock it away or pick it off with absolutely no effort to mix it up with the DB at all like the good WR's do. That is just pure lack of effort, or balls, whatever you want to say.

If that makes Wallace 'not a hard worker' then absolutely, as the proof is on film and wasn't a one time deal.

Chadman
02-15-2013, 09:30 AM
Perhaps...

Or, someone could argue that it would have been a worse business decision to go into 2013 with only Jerricho Cotchery under contract...

Think about it...so many people post on this board that, last season, it was fine for Wallace to skip workouts and training camp because "he was not under contract"...fine...

If the Steelers had not signed Brown, he would not be "under contract"...starting in March, Emmanuel Sanders will not be "under contract"...

So, where would the Steelers be if their top three WRs were not under contract, either RFA or UFA? What would happen if, after seeing what Wallace did last year, both Brown and Sanders decided that they didn't feel like coming to any workouts or training camp?

How would the Steelers offense look then?

Having an RFA WR isn't the same thing as having a WR...Mike Wallace proved that to us (and the Steelers) last year...

So, what you call a "bad business decision" because the "FO's nose was out of joint", I call "foresight" and "insurance"....I call NOT signing Brown, "putting your team in a terrible negotiating position" with ANY free agent WR, let alone the guys you drafted...

BAD business decision?

I disagree...

The only thing that stopped Wallace from signing his RFA tender was that the Steelers & his agent were committed to signing a long-term deal. His non-signing of the RFA tender was a negotiating tactic.

The reason he didn't get a long-term contract was not because he didn't turn up to camp or sign his tender, but because the numbers Wallace was chasing, long-term, were not what the Steelers were willing to offer.

It would seem 90% of Steeler fans are happy they didn't 'overpay' Wallace.

Fair enough.

Now if, as you suggest, Brown & Sanders were to use the exact same negotiating tactic as RFA's, again- the only reason they wouldn't get signed & report to Camp would be the long-term contract numbers.

So if Brown or Sanders, as RFA's, were not signed, it would be because they were asking for more than what the Steelers were offering. And given how the fans of Pittsburgh were nearly unanimous in their disapproval of Wallace not accepting what he was offered, no doubt if Brown went down that path- the fans would feel the same way.

Thankfully, the board has decided that Brown is, essentially, the anti-Wallace, so he would never have used that tactic, right? :)

Here are the facts- if Antonio Brown had signed the contract he signed last season, now... he would cost $2.265m against the Cap this season. That's not his RFA tender- that's the Cap number of Year 1 of the contract he signed. As it is, because of the timing of his signing, he'll cost $6.2m in 2013.

Now- the Steelers might restructure Brown this season. His base salary is $2m. He has a $2.5m roster bonus due, as well as around $1.7m signing bonus. What they'll probably do is turn his roster bonus into part of his signing bonus, and then turn a chunk of his salary into a signing bonus. It'll reduce his cap hit in 2013 to around the $3 to $3.5m range. Not the $6.2 he currently will cost.

Good times, right?

Not so for 2014 though. His BASE SALARY jumps to $6m next season. With his 2013 salary & the roster bonus spread out over the remainder of his contract, along with the $1.7m portion of his signing bonus included- Brown could cost closer to $9m next season. And predictions of next years Cap are grim.

The Brown contract, regardless of the timing, was a pretty good one.

But when you include the timing, when you include the Steelers Salary Cap issues- if they could have had Brown's first year numbers of his contract start in 2013- there would be a lot less blood letting on the roster.

squidkid
02-15-2013, 09:38 AM
stay classy.

I'm staying as classy as Wallace did this year. Anyone that supports Wallace and his classiness shouldnt have a problem with mine.

squidkid
02-15-2013, 09:41 AM
Pat Tillman comes to mind.

i have the utmost respect for Mr Tillman for doing what he did, but he didnt quit the NFL and turn down the money because of injury or for the fans.

Eich
02-15-2013, 10:15 AM
I don't agree at all that Wallace is the better player. He might be more physically gifted - I don't know. But Mike does one thing really well - flies. His hands are definitely not better than Brown's, his routes aren't better than Brown's and he doesn't appear to have the same heart.

"Get it done" without Wallace? We got it done with Hines Ward, Randle El and Cedrick Wilson. We can surely get it done with Antonio Brown, Sanders, Cotchery/Plax and/or whomever else they get to plug in there.

If we want to upgrade the receiver position, we need a guy like Boldin or Fitz who can out-physical the opponent and attack the ball. Wallace won't ever be that. Maybe we'll be lucky and find one to compliment AB.


the guys you mentioned at WR had a superb running game behind them, not to mention a HOF in ward. This group doesn't have anything close to that. Do you honestly believe that this WR group is capable of winning a championship? I don't.

Which is why we're looking to upgrade our running game. If we upgrade the O-line and find a running game, AB, Sanders, Plax/Cotchery and whomever else we plug in at WR will look a lot better. Yes, I believe we can win a championship with this group at WR. By the same token, without a decent running game and O-Line, keeping Wallace isn't going to overcome those weaknesses.


and I can't help but find it amusing that we now need a fitz type WR to "compliment" our highest paid player at that position. Doesn't add up. WR is a huge need in this draft, but most rookie WRs don't contribute in year 1. I hope there is a p,an in place, but it sure doesn't look like it.

You find it amusing that I mention needing a Fitz/Boldin type guy and in the next breath, you say that WR is a huge need in the draft ?

We're saying the same thing. I'm not saying we should try to sign a free agent like Fitz/Boldin. I'm saying draft a WR who is agressive in going after the ball (and hopefully TALL). Wallace's skill is speed. But to signficantly upgrade the WR group as a whole, we need a guy who plays agressive and can out-physical DBs. When Wallace's contract wasn't an issue, he wasn't good at this. And last year, he was simply awful in that respect, playing "not to get hurt".

feltdizz
02-15-2013, 10:28 AM
F wallace. i still hope he gets severley injured before FA and cost him millions. the guy sold us out and the team in 2012 so not to get injured. wallace cares about wallace and nobody else. there is not 1 single NFL player that sacrifices his body for the fans, they all do it for the money. any fan that thinks a player cares for us is an idiot. if these players cared about getting injured more than making a ton of money they would all fall back on that free educatuion they received and work at a real job. name 1 player that decided to quit the nfl on their own and decide to work for 30-50K a year.

This is probably top 5 for dumbest post ever on the Planet.

Players have to quit the NFL to get your respect? Yeah... OK.

feltdizz
02-15-2013, 10:31 AM
i have the utmost respect for Mr Tillman for doing what he did, but he didnt quit the NFL and turn down the money because of injury or for the fans.


who the hell quits for the fans? What in Gods Green Earth are you smoking? Plenty of players have to quit due to injuries... but who the hell quits for the fans? How does that even work?

I respect the fans too much to play in the NFL?

:wft:wft:wft:wft:wft are you sipping, popping AND smoking? I know Wallace makes you angry but dammit, he made you ignant and crazy? :D

squidkid
02-15-2013, 04:24 PM
This is probably top 5 for dumbest post ever on the Planet.

Players have to quit the NFL to get your respect? Yeah... OK.


you might be the top 5 dumbest poster for not being able to read the original post and understand my response to it.

SteelerOfDeVille
02-15-2013, 06:27 PM
The article reaffirms my opinion that Wallace was stupid to refuse the Steelers offer. He risked apparently $10M per to go through this season playing scared in hopes of not getting injured and in hopes that someone else would offer him more. Maybe it'll work out for him. But it couuld have cost him everything had he sustained a severe injury by playing scared.

THE ARTICLE ITSELF, is stupid... tries to use a guy who gets injured as a good reason for Wallace to hold out and play through the RFA contract.... when the opposite is true... if you worry about injury, you sign the "Antonio Brown-like offer" and secure your future. Just sayin....

BradshawsHairdresser
02-15-2013, 07:44 PM
THE ARTICLE ITSELF, is stupid... tries to use a guy who gets injured as a good reason for Wallace to hold out and play through the RFA contract.... when the opposite is true... if you worry about injury, you sign the "Antonio Brown-like offer" and secure your future. Just sayin....
$$$$$
Had Wallace taken the $10 million/year contract, his financial future could have been secured...he chose to gamble that he'd do better by going the UFA route. Will he get a big enough contract to offset the $7+ million he forfeited this past season by not taking the Steelers' offer? We shall see.

BURGH86STEEL
02-15-2013, 08:59 PM
$$$$$
Had Wallace taken the $10 million/year contract, his financial future could have been secured...he chose to gamble that he'd do better by going the UFA route. Will he get a big enough contract to offset the $7+ million he forfeited this past season by not taking the Steelers' offer? We shall see.
Wallace wasn't going to make 10 million per year with the Steelers. Not sure why fans continue to insist the he was going to make 10 million per year??? NFL contracts are not guaranteed.

Sidney Rice - 18 mill guaranteed money.

Santonio Holmes - 24 mill in guaranteed money.

Vincent Jackson - 26 mill in guaranteede money.

Greg Jennings - 16.5 mill in guaranteed money.

Roddy White - 18.6 mill in guaranteed money.

Reggie Wayne - 12.5 guaranteed money

Andre Johnson - 48 mill guaranteed money

Miles Austin - 18 mill guaranteed money

Brandon Marshall - 25 mill guaranteed money

Calvin Johnson - 60 mill guaranteed money

Larry Fitz - 50 mill in guaranteed money

Guaranteed money offers more long term security then the overall value of a contract in the NFL. Basketball and baseball contracts are generally guaranteed. Wallace would had been a nut job to settle for a deal that only included 8.5 mill in guaranteed money based on what other WR's received.

Chadman
02-15-2013, 09:02 PM
Wallace wasn't going to make 10 million per year with the Steelers. Not sure why fans continue to insist the he was going to make 10 million per year??? NFL contracts are not guaranteed.

Sidney Rice - 18 mill guaranteed money.

Santonio Holmes - 24 mill in guaranteed money.

Vincent Jackson - 26 mill in guaranteede money.

Greg Jennings - 16.5 mill in guaranteed money.

Roddy White - 18.6 mill in guaranteed money.

Reggie Wayne - 12.5 guaranteed money

Andre Johnson - 48 mill guaranteed money

Miles Austin - 18 mill guaranteed money

Brandon Marshall - 25 mill guaranteed money

Calvin Johnson - 60 mill guaranteed money

Larry Fitz - 50 mill in guaranteed money

Guaranteed money offers more long term security then the overall value of a contract in the NFL. Basketball and baseball contracts are generally guaranteed. Wallace would had been a nut job to settle for a deal that only included 8.5 mill in guaranteed money based on what other WR's received.

Agreed, completely.

NorthCoast
02-16-2013, 09:57 AM
Simply put, Wallace wants to be paid as a team's No. 1 WR, but he isn't. Does anyone really believe he can average 6 or more receptions a game and stay intact? I don't. One tweaked knee or ankle and the guy's value will plummet. Wallace himself knows it and it is the reason why things played out the way they did last season.

NJ-STEELER
02-16-2013, 01:11 PM
Wallace wasn't going to make 10 million per year with the Steelers. Not sure why fans continue to insist the he was going to make 10 million per year??? NFL contracts are not guaranteed.

Sidney Rice - 18 mill guaranteed money.

Santonio Holmes - 24 mill in guaranteed money.

Vincent Jackson - 26 mill in guaranteede money.

Greg Jennings - 16.5 mill in guaranteed money.

Roddy White - 18.6 mill in guaranteed money.

Reggie Wayne - 12.5 guaranteed money

Andre Johnson - 48 mill guaranteed money

Miles Austin - 18 mill guaranteed money

Brandon Marshall - 25 mill guaranteed money

Calvin Johnson - 60 mill guaranteed money

Larry Fitz - 50 mill in guaranteed money

Guaranteed money offers more long term security then the overall value of a contract in the NFL. Basketball and baseball contracts are generally guaranteed. Wallace would had been a nut job to settle for a deal that only included 8.5 mill in guaranteed money based on what other WR's received..........

$$

papillon
02-16-2013, 01:39 PM
Wallace wasn't going to make 10 million per year with the Steelers. Not sure why fans continue to insist the he was going to make 10 million per year??? NFL contracts are not guaranteed.

Sidney Rice - 18 mill guaranteed money.

Santonio Holmes - 24 mill in guaranteed money.

Vincent Jackson - 26 mill in guaranteede money.

Greg Jennings - 16.5 mill in guaranteed money.

Roddy White - 18.6 mill in guaranteed money.

Reggie Wayne - 12.5 guaranteed money

Andre Johnson - 48 mill guaranteed money

Miles Austin - 18 mill guaranteed money

Brandon Marshall - 25 mill guaranteed money

Calvin Johnson - 60 mill guaranteed money

Larry Fitz - 50 mill in guaranteed money

Guaranteed money offers more long term security then the overall value of a contract in the NFL. Basketball and baseball contracts are generally guaranteed. Wallace would had been a nut job to settle for a deal that only included 8.5 mill in guaranteed money based on what other WR's received.

I don't believe that Mike Wallace compares favorably with any of those receivers when it comes to production and ability. Mike Wallace is a good receiver, but not in the category with those players, they will all go and battle for the ball to greater degree than Mike Wallace, IMO. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-12 guaranteed would be the most I go to try and secure him long term.

Pappy

supersteeler
02-16-2013, 01:58 PM
From what I heard he wanted a contract compairable to > Star receiver Vincent Jackson, formerly of the San Diego Chargers, has agreed to terms with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, per several sources. According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, the deal is for $55.55 million over five years, with $26 million guaranteed, and $26 million overall in the first two years. Actually, according to Pro Football Talk, the contract number comes to $55,555,555

I think the sticking point was the guaranteed amount that Wallace wanted. His next contract could be his last so he's looking at it with a different mindset than we are. He wanted a contract that the Steelers wern't willing to sign so we move on so does Mike.
I'm not going to burn bread on Mike, he played well for us his first few years and maybe not up to standards but outside of Heath who did?

Steel Life
02-16-2013, 03:06 PM
Let's resign ourselves to the fact that he's gone & what should be done to replace him. He was good while here but he's on to greener pastures & by greener pastures I mean either a dome or warm weather team...& that's fine with me, not only because players come & go but because I don't believe he wanted to be here & it showed. We can argue motivation, money, effort & reactions of both sides all day but I firmly believe that if he & the the team wanted him to be here, then he would be.

That said, we can only hope the team has identified a replacement that will mesh with Ben & the other WRs & help take this team to another level.

steelnavy
02-16-2013, 03:30 PM
I think the big gripe is that he is a p*ssy... We all saw Ben throw passes down the sideline that were maybe underthrown where Wallace turns, has plenty of time to make a break for the ball, but a defender is there so he stands and watches the defender either easily knock it away or pick it off with absolutely no effort to mix it up with the DB at all like the good WR's do. That is just pure lack of effort, or balls...

What he said... Who wants to pay that guy top tier money?!? Anquan Boldin made Flacco king of the playoffs. If the ball is thrown anywhere in his vicinity, its either caught or he ensures that the defender doesn't intercept it. If unibrow had Wallace, he wouldn't have made it past round 2...

I don't like Wallace because he screwed himself and the team last year. And I get tired of hearing how I am just a hater because of my position. Good debaters use facts without name calling and assumptions about others "true motivations." Which one are you?

Eddie Spaghetti
02-16-2013, 03:47 PM
I don't like Wallace because he screwed himself and the team last year. And I get tired of hearing how I am just a hater because of my position. Good debaters use facts without name calling and assumptions about others "true motivations." Which one are you?

you just agreed with a guy that called wallace a p*ssy.

steelnavy
02-16-2013, 03:58 PM
you just agreed with a guy that called wallace a p*ssy.

Yes I did. So what? The debate is ABOUT him, not WITH him...

Sugar
02-17-2013, 12:32 AM
At least the Brown Fan Club will have a Steeler to root for and pull for who is helping the Steelers. Wallace's boys will have nothing but memories.;)

Yes. Fond memories of a WR who could actually score.

steelz09
02-17-2013, 12:53 AM
Wallace is one of the most overrated WRs in the NFL.

SteelerOfDeVille
02-17-2013, 01:50 PM
Wallace wasn't going to make 10 million per year with the Steelers. Not sure why fans continue to insist the he was going to make 10 million per year??? NFL contracts are not guaranteed.

Sidney Rice - 18 mill guaranteed money.

Santonio Holmes - 24 mill in guaranteed money.

Vincent Jackson - 26 mill in guaranteede money.

Greg Jennings - 16.5 mill in guaranteed money.

Roddy White - 18.6 mill in guaranteed money.

Reggie Wayne - 12.5 guaranteed money

Andre Johnson - 48 mill guaranteed money

Miles Austin - 18 mill guaranteed money

Brandon Marshall - 25 mill guaranteed money

Calvin Johnson - 60 mill guaranteed money

Larry Fitz - 50 mill in guaranteed money

Guaranteed money offers more long term security then the overall value of a contract in the NFL. Basketball and baseball contracts are generally guaranteed. Wallace would had been a nut job to settle for a deal that only included 8.5 mill in guaranteed money based on what other WR's received.

still, the question remains, will he make enough more over what the steelers offered to make up for what he missed out on this past season... he didn't do himself any favors by holding out and having a bad year.