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View Full Version : We Must Hit It Big In The Draft or 8-8 seasons will become common.



supersteeler
02-04-2013, 10:16 PM
I know the FO will do everything possible to improve the team, Rooney came out public and said this season is unacceptable and changes will be made.
He also said we better have the players to replace the ones that won't be here.

With the cap situation and few dollars to sign FA's its imperative we do well in the draft in order to improve as a team, even with that, the reality is we don't have enough quality players to step up and play at a high level.

You can't lose Harrison, Mendy, Wallace, three of your O-lineman, and expect to compete for a championship. Oh, we'll be competitive but I thinks its going to take at least two great draft years to get back to be a playoff team.
If we lose Colon, Starks, and Foster who in the hell is going to play on that o-lin e if someone gets injured?

Who do we have that can take James Harrison's place?

We'll need another receiver but who will be as good as Wallace right away?

I didn't even mention RB, or the possibility of Foote leaving so as you can see they have their work cut out for them.

Dee Dub
02-04-2013, 10:29 PM
I want to hit it big and I too think it is important but you are exaggerating the importance of it as well as ignoring the biggest factor in this teams success as well as why it went 8-8.

Their star QB needs to be healthy. Plan and simple. If they draft a great player in this draft yet isn't a factor until 2014 yet Ben stays healthy this team will be on the over-side of 8-8. And way over it.

supersteeler
02-04-2013, 10:47 PM
Im not ignoring the injuries, I took that into consideration but thats with our current team. I'm talking about the projections of losing the above players even with a healthy Ben.

Quote:

Their star QB needs to be healthy. Plan and simple. If they draft a great player in this draft yet isn't a factor until 2014 yet Ben stays healthy this team will be on the over-side of 8-8. And way over it.

Considering the players we will lose, saying we will be way over 8-8 next season is exaggerating the facts the Steelers have to deal with.

Chadman
02-04-2013, 11:01 PM
Probably more important than 'who they draft in 2013' is 'who they drafted leading up to 2013'.

Guys like Worilds, McLendon, Sanders, Redman, Dwyer & Cortez Allen are the keys to success or failure in 2013 in many ways. They'll be the ones asked to fill the holes opened up on the roster- not the 2013 rookies.

Oviedo
02-05-2013, 09:14 AM
8-8 seasons will only be common if Ben continues to miss 3 games and play hurt the rest of the season. Make the OL better and you will preclude that from happening. Fail to do that and get use to being average because there is no alternative to Ben.

pfelix73
02-05-2013, 10:23 AM
8-8 seasons will only be common if Ben continues to miss 3 games and play hurt the rest of the season. Make the OL better and you will preclude that from happening. Fail to do that and get use to being average because there is no alternative to Ben.

For the millionth time, you can't assume that if they draft another 1st round OL, that BB won't get hurt. Let's not forget that the past 2 TWO years that BB got hurt, it was all on him. Had every opportunity to get rid of the ball but instead tried to make a play and got hurt. Injuries happen.

Go back and look at the video of the KC game where got hurt.. It was 3rd down and 4. He had Miller on 1 on 1 coverage and could've made a 1st down if he threw to him, but never looked his way, and then down he went...All on him.

Dee Dub
02-05-2013, 10:28 AM
Im not ignoring the injuries, I took that into consideration but thats with our current team. I'm talking about the projections of losing the above players even with a healthy Ben.

Quote:

Their star QB needs to be healthy. Plan and simple. If they draft a great player in this draft yet isn't a factor until 2014 yet Ben stays healthy this team will be on the over-side of 8-8. And way over it.

Considering the players we will lose, saying we will be way over 8-8 next season is exaggerating the facts the Steelers have to deal with.

This Organization will not lose any significant player that they need or that they don't already have a viable replacement for. This is the Pittsburgh Steelers...not sure if you have ever heard of them?

Northern_Blitz
02-05-2013, 11:01 AM
Probably more important than 'who they draft in 2013' is 'who they drafted leading up to 2013'.

Guys like Worilds, McLendon, Sanders, Redman, Dwyer & Cortez Allen are the keys to success or failure in 2013 in many ways. They'll be the ones asked to fill the holes opened up on the roster- not the 2013 rookies.

I think we can add Adams and Gilbert to that list. I don't think we'll bring Starks back next year. With cash in short supply, I think the team will roll with our highly drafted tackles.

phillyesq
02-05-2013, 11:23 AM
The Steelers don't necessarily need a home run, but they cannot strike out. If Mendenhall and Mundy leave, the Steelers will have no players left from the NFL draft. That hurts. They drafted a RB, a big WR and a pass rusher in the first three picks; those remain areas of need today. The 2009 draft was more successful, but if Wallace and Lewis both leave, the Steelers are left with only Ziggy Hood. The 2009 UDFAs produced Foster and Redman, but Foster is no given to return, either.

steelz09
02-05-2013, 12:00 PM
Everyone thought we "Hit it Big" in last year's draft.

DBR96A
02-05-2013, 12:06 PM
Everyone thought we "Hit it Big" in last year's draft.
How do we know the Steelers didn't hit it big? Each of the first three draft picks missed extended periods of time due to injuries.

steelz09
02-05-2013, 12:14 PM
How do we know the Steelers didn't hit it big? Each of the first three draft picks missed extended periods of time due to injuries.

Did I say we didn't?

I still have high hopes for our 1st 4 picks. I couldn't believe the Rainey pick either. I thought he had the potential to be our ROY. In less than a year, he's off the team.

supersteeler
02-05-2013, 12:31 PM
This Organization will not lose any significant player that they need or that they don't already have a viable replacement for. This is the Pittsburgh Steelers...not sure if you have ever heard of them?


Listen Bud, I'm a life long fan of this team so please don't question my allegiance to the team I love,:nono unless you want to start some BS

feltdizz
02-05-2013, 12:51 PM
Everyone thought we "Hit it Big" in last year's draft.

every year...

Dee Dub
02-05-2013, 01:27 PM
This Organization will not lose any significant player that they need or that they don't already have a viable replacement for. This is the Pittsburgh Steelers...not sure if you have ever heard of them?


Listen Bud, I'm a life long fan of this team so please don't question my allegiance to the team I love,:nono unless you want to start some BS

Ok now I get it. It's a maturity issue with you. No problem. Peace.

Mister Pittsburgh
02-05-2013, 01:32 PM
For the millionth time, you can't assume that if they draft another 1st round OL, that BB won't get hurt. Let's not forget that the past 2 TWO years that BB got hurt, it was all on him. Had every opportunity to get rid of the ball but instead tried to make a play and got hurt. Injuries happen.

Go back and look at the video of the KC game where got hurt.. It was 3rd down and 4. He had Miller on 1 on 1 coverage and could've made a 1st down if he threw to him, but never looked his way, and then down he went...All on him.

A stud OL may not prevent Ben from getting hurt, but it can aid in giving us a dominant running game, which will aid the team when Ben does get hurt and misses time. Gotta think ahead and not be so reactionary (not you, the Steelers)....I would be willing to bet 25 bucks that one of our starting 5 OL goes down with a multi-game injury within the first 4 to 6 weeks of the season. Gameplan ahead and have a stud waiting rather then have the injury occur and have to plug scrubs in to a makeshift line.

Dee Dub
02-05-2013, 01:37 PM
8-8 seasons will only be common if Ben continues to miss 3 games and play hurt the rest of the season....

You should have just stopped right there.



Make the OL better and you will preclude that from happening. Fail to do that and get use to being average because there is no alternative to Ben.

The Steelers as a team gave up 37 sacks all year. That ranked 18th best in the league which really isnt that bad considering they were 12th in the league in passing attempts and 19% of those sacks were to Charlie Batch and Byron Leftwich.

Ben did not get hurt because of his O-line. Ben got hurt because Ben held on to the ball too long and tried to make something happen that wasn't there.

Sugar
02-05-2013, 02:35 PM
Ben did not get hurt because of his O-line. Ben got hurt because Ben held on to the ball too long and tried to make something happen that wasn't there.


Which he should continue to do. Sometimes it wins championships and sometimes it loses games. Gamblers gotta gamble...

Dee Dub
02-05-2013, 02:44 PM
Which he should continue to do. Sometimes it wins championships and sometimes it loses games. Gamblers gotta gamble...

Agreed! It is who he is. And I like. It separates him from many others.

squidkid
02-05-2013, 04:24 PM
every year...

yup, just like player "X" was the 'steal' of the round or steal of the draft

feltdizz
02-05-2013, 04:40 PM
Which he should continue to do. Sometimes it wins championships and sometimes it loses games. Gamblers gotta gamble...

as he gets older he needs to gamble less IMO...

these younger DL's are faster, he is slower... and the gambling has lead to 2 season ending (for us) injuries the last 2 years.

ikestops85
02-05-2013, 05:18 PM
Everyone thought we "Hit it Big" in last year's draft.

Exactly. I was so excited for this season to start. I saw Colon moving to the inside and DeCastro starting as a big improvement to the line. I thought Redman would be solid behind that line. Getting Adams in the 2nd was a bonus and he might start at left tackle. Sean Spence would be a perfect replacement for Farrior and Ta'amu to start taking over for Hampton. Throw in Rainey as a possible Sproles type player and we were going to be a force in the playoffs.

Then Gilbert started falling on everybody, DeCastro and Spence don't even see the start of the season, Ta'amu thought he was a player in Grand Theft Auto, and Rainey decides it's easier to hit women than it is to break tackles.

I can't wait til next year!!

ikestops85
02-05-2013, 05:32 PM
Probably more important than 'who they draft in 2013' is 'who they drafted leading up to 2013'.

Guys like Worilds, McLendon, Sanders, Redman, Dwyer & Cortez Allen are the keys to success or failure in 2013 in many ways. They'll be the ones asked to fill the holes opened up on the roster- not the 2013 rookies.

Pssst ... Redman and McLendon weren't drafted. ;)

but I agree with what you are saying. :D

lloydroid
02-05-2013, 09:18 PM
I know the FO will do everything possible to improve the team, Rooney came out public and said this season is unacceptable and changes will be made.
He also said we better have the players to replace the ones that won't be here.

With the cap situation and few dollars to sign FA's its imperative we do well in the draft in order to improve as a team, even with that, the reality is we don't have enough quality players to step up and play at a high level.

You can't lose Harrison, Mendy, Wallace, three of your O-lineman, and expect to compete for a championship. Oh, we'll be competitive but I thinks its going to take at least two great draft years to get back to be a playoff team.
If we lose Colon, Starks, and Foster who in the hell is going to play on that o-lin e if someone gets injured?

Who do we have that can take James Harrison's place?

We'll need another receiver but who will be as good as Wallace right away?

I didn't even mention RB, or the possibility of Foote leaving so as you can see they have their work cut out for them.

IDK, the Colts were horrid in 2011, lost tons more players in 2012, and actually still became a play off team. You can create addition through subtraction if things fall into place.

phillyesq
02-05-2013, 09:51 PM
IDK, the Colts were horrid in 2011, lost tons more players in 2012, and actually still became a play off team. You can create addition through subtraction if things fall into place.

They went from a collection of misfits at QB to Andrew Luck.

Sugar
02-05-2013, 10:08 PM
as he gets older he needs to gamble less IMO...

these younger DL's are faster, he is slower... and the gambling has lead to 2 season ending (for us) injuries the last 2 years.

We disagree there. It's his game and I'm cool with it. I'd rather him play all-out than play it safe. Sometimes you beat the mountain and sometimes the mountain beats you. Either way, it's a heck of a ride!

Chadman
02-06-2013, 12:08 AM
Pssst ... Redman and McLendon weren't drafted. ;)

but I agree with what you are saying. :D

You kiddin? They were 8th rounders, for sure..

Keyplay1
02-06-2013, 10:46 AM
supersteeler said AR2 said " we better have the players to replace the ones that won't be here."

Hmm! Wonder what he meant by that?

If that is an exact quote, and I was Colbert, I would be already starting to kick some scout butt, and expect some serious bush beating pronto.

Does anyone recall something I heard occurred in the mid 80's. Apparently the drafting was not so hot and some guy named Arthur Rooney[okay Jr.] got canned. This if true always made me laugh. Hey don't think for a minute that these Steelers don't take this game serious.

In another thread totally unrelated to draft success or not the 2006 year came up. You could not help but notice that only one of the players drafted was still here. and only one other was a winner. But what was easy to overlook was the only player left was Willie Colon a 4th rd pick from Hofstra?? [who knew they even played football] and nearly all the rest [duds]were from BIG schools with major programs. Which is what the following is about.

1. There is evidence, discussed below, that suggests that certain major producers of football talent
are so heavily scouted that a player with a scintilla of talent from those schools is considered a
safer choice than a more talented player from a smaller school
The following table supports the contention that there is a draft bias toward certain colleges. This table
shows information for ten of the major producers of NFL talent.

2. The following table at least partially contradicts that contention. This table lists the top 10 colleges in the number of starts by undrafted players. Seven colleges from the Automatic Qualifier conferences are included in this top 10.

3. This top ten list does present some startling information. First, Kent State is the leader among all
colleges in games started by undrafted players. It gets even better. Kent State has more starts than the
combined total of the 10 major colleges listed above (258 vs. 177). Further, Kent State and Maine (a
college with no starts from drafted players) account for over 5% of the total starts by undrafted players.
Who would have guessed that one? It is also worth noting that five schools (Maine, Southern Illinois,
Northern Iowa, Richmond and Eastern Illinois) account for nearly 40% of the starts from undrafted
players from the All Other Colleges.

----These are just some of the conclusions drawn from the numerous charts and stuff on the site. There is too much to post here. But this is just a smidge of the info on draft data there. If interested in this kind of stuff check out the link.

http://www.draftmetrics.com/

btw: The site is run by life long Steeler fans. Some of the info on TS is interesting. What I took from this was TS should be paying more attention to the smaller school players on these fringe picks. Antonio Brown anyone?

pfelix73
02-06-2013, 10:50 AM
A stud OL may not prevent Ben from getting hurt, but it can aid in giving us a dominant running game, which will aid the team when Ben does get hurt and misses time. Gotta think ahead and not be so reactionary (not you, the Steelers)....I would be willing to bet 25 bucks that one of our starting 5 OL goes down with a multi-game injury within the first 4 to 6 weeks of the season. Gameplan ahead and have a stud waiting rather then have the injury occur and have to plug scrubs in to a makeshift line.

A stud FB with a RB that will follow his FB along with another good blocking TE would improve the running game too. Don't get me wrong, they should take some OL in this draft, but just not at the top of the draft....I like that C from Alabama....The one who can play C,G, and T. He might last until round 3....

Oviedo
02-06-2013, 11:19 AM
A stud FB with a RB that will follow his FB along with another good blocking TE would improve the running game too. Don't get me wrong, they should take some OL in this draft, but just not at the top of the draft....I like that C from Alabama....The one who can play C,G, and T. He might last until round 3....


I think Will Johnson did a great job at FB this season for a rookie. He did more in one season than Dennis Johnson did in his entire career.

Barrett Jones is the player from Alabama you mention and I would love to have him. He has played T, G and C on National Championship teams. I have seen some project him as late Round 1 or early Round 2. IMO he would be a steal in Round 2.

supersteeler
02-07-2013, 08:57 AM
The reason I said, we need to hit it big in the draft is we have more than a few positions that need filled, and that historically the Steelers don't look at FA's as a solution especially this year with the cap issues.
This paticular year expect a higher amount of turnover than in the past, even Colbert alluded to that when he said we were 8-8 with the players we have doing nothing won't help us so changes will be made.
Ed Bouchette who seems to have more inside information than most writers calls it the March Massacre in a article I read, he said if you think last years was bad wait till this time around.

If you put it all together more new faces will be wearing the Black & Gold and some vets and popular ones might not be here as we enter the 2013 season. We have to hope some of our second and third year draft picks step up in combination of finding the right picks in this draft, not only for this year but next year too. There is an opportunity for a new player to get a starting position if he's good enough, especially at RB and a WR and even TE. Its a bit tougher to find a starting role on defense, however the steelers need some quality depth at ILB,OLB and the D-line, players that could fill in this year if injury occurs and players that could compete for that starters role the following year.

We do have some bright spots, like our secondary that came on strong with Lewis and Cortez, and a young Offensive line, to build on for the future. We're ok with our safety's for now but you can bet we'll need to draft one this year to groom for either Troy or Clark, but as of now the LB position seems to be the priority moving forward on defense.


I expect improvement for the coming season, but will it be enough to secure a position in the playoffs I can't say, but improving this past season is a step in the right direction. We have a strong organization that's pretty consistent making the correct decisions to maintain a good team and taking steps to make the team better. There is some comfort in that, knowing they won't make knee jerk decisions that would undermine their goal of building a championship football team.

Maybe I'm taking a conservative approach to all of this thinking it may take a year or two in quality draft picks to turn things around, I just don't want to get my hopes up that it will happen overnight.
From what I'm hearing, more Steelers are starting their training earlier that usual, that tells me they are serious and want to correct this past season of underachievement, a good sign I would think.


It may take a year or two, but I'm confident we'll be back, and we win #7 before Ben hangs it up for good. Looking at the stretch this year before the injuries to our line and Ben the offense was doing pretty good so maybe a second year under Haley will make that difference.

Keyplay1
02-08-2013, 04:32 PM
Well, if we are going to hit it big, then TS must take advantage of the small school players in the later rds. The risk-reward factor on these small school players is startingly high.

And the Answer Is....Kent State and Maine?!?!?!?! (http://www.draftmetrics.com/files/And%20the%20Answer%20Is.pdf)

Not that TS have not had plenty of success there already. [Later rds or undrafted]

Dan Kreider-New Hampshire, Justin Strzelczyk-Maine, James Harrison, Kent St or Akron? not sure, and recently Antonio Brown anyone? Just to mention a few.