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View Full Version : Better Outlook From Today Forward: Ben vs. Joe



JB13
02-04-2013, 02:51 PM
Who will be more successful with their team moving forward from today? Although it pains me to say it, I think Joe Flacco, for several reasons:

1) Has played every game in his 5 year career - bodes well for the immediate future
2) Plays behind a much better offensive line - will help with #1
3) Benefits from a D that is highly skilled at taking the ball away - increased offensive opportunities
4) Plays with a stud RB - despite his playoff fumbling problems, Ray Rice is better than anyone we have, by far
5) His special teams units are always a threat to score. 'Nuff said about that one. We have no one dynamic on special teams, especially not Antonio "Field the punt at the 9 yard line" Brown
6) Has a better coach - I know Tomlin's been to two SBs, but it's feast or famine with him. He lacks consistency. I believe Harbaugh, while unlikeable, is a much tougher coach and a better in-game decision maker.
7) Plays with young, athletic corners who help get the D off the field on third down

Lastly, he benefits from a D that can pressure the QB

Those are the immediate reasons that come to mind. If I had to pick Ben or Joe from this day forward, I'd have to go with Joe.

What do you think?

Mister Pittsburgh
02-04-2013, 02:53 PM
Mostly depends on the players around them....OL, WR, TE, RB....looking at this years teams, the Ravens had more....next year could be a different story.

BigRob
02-04-2013, 03:05 PM
Who will be more successful with their team moving forward from today? Although it pains me to say it, I think Joe Flacco, for several reasons:

1) Has played every game in his 5 year career - bodes well for the immediate future
2) Plays behind a much better offensive line - will help with #1
3) Benefits from a D that is highly skilled at taking the ball away - increased offensive opportunities
4) Plays with a stud RB - despite his playoff fumbling problems, Ray Rice is better than anyone we have, by far
5) His special teams units are always a threat to score. 'Nuff said about that one. We have no one dynamic on special teams, especially not Antonio "Field the punt at the 9 yard line" Brown
6) Has a better coach - I know Tomlin's been to two SBs, but it's feast or famine with him. He lacks consistency. I believe Harbaugh, while unlikeable, is a much tougher coach and a better in-game decision maker.
7) Plays with young, athletic corners who help get the D off the field on third down

Lastly, he benefits from a D that can pressure the QB

Those are the immediate reasons that come to mind. If I had to pick Ben or Joe from this day forward, I'd have to go with Joe.

What do you think?

Today forward? I would go with Joe. He's proven he is clutch. He's a bigger version of Eli Manning and he never misses games. Plus he's never had character questions.

supersteeler
02-04-2013, 03:19 PM
Today forward? I would go with Joe. He's proven he is clutch. He's a bigger version of Eli Manning and he never misses games. Plus he's never had character questions.

He never misses games because the O-line up front helps in that matter....Warmack could help Ben.

As of now Flacco has the upper hand, but Ben is still the better overall QB.

Give Ben a o-line, and a feature back like Baltimore enjoys and you will see Ben dominate at his position, he never had that dominate O-line, never.....draft Warmack!


The Steelers will never see another Super Bowl averaging 21 points a game fix the O-line damn it!

Slapstick
02-04-2013, 03:26 PM
He never misses games because the O-line up front helps in that matter....

Our QB perfromance is result of the number of games our O-Line misses...

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
02-04-2013, 03:34 PM
Flacco has the ability to heave the ball up - and he does have a strong arm - and his big, strong receivers fight for it and come down with it. He could easily have had three or four picks throughout the playoffs and he is a playoff choker. He heaves one up to Jones yesterday that is underthrown but he is standing all alone and can come back for it and fall down. DB blew the coverage so a should've been incompletion is a 56 yard TD.

I posted recently that this is the new wave. Receivers are given so much leeway against DBs, and the D is penalized heavily for every misstep. Get a strong WR with good body control and just let him play jump ball. More on the WR than the QB.

NW Steeler
02-04-2013, 03:49 PM
Who will be more successful with their team moving forward from today? Although it pains me to say it, I think Joe Flacco, for several reasons:

1) Has played every game in his 5 year career - bodes well for the immediate future
2) Plays behind a much better offensive line - will help with #1
3) Benefits from a D that is highly skilled at taking the ball away - increased offensive opportunities
4) Plays with a stud RB - despite his playoff fumbling problems, Ray Rice is better than anyone we have, by far
5) His special teams units are always a threat to score. 'Nuff said about that one. We have no one dynamic on special teams, especially not Antonio "Field the punt at the 9 yard line" Brown
6) Has a better coach - I know Tomlin's been to two SBs, but it's feast or famine with him. He lacks consistency. I believe Harbaugh, while unlikeable, is a much tougher coach and a better in-game decision maker.
7) Plays with young, athletic corners who help get the D off the field on third down

Lastly, he benefits from a D that can pressure the QB

Those are the immediate reasons that come to mind. If I had to pick Ben or Joe from this day forward, I'd have to go with Joe.

What do you think?

I thought the question was Ben or Joe? Not the oline, defense, running back, special teams and coach?

I take Ben STILL, hands down. Flacco still folds under pressure. The things you list, if Ben had better protection, a stud running back, receivers that can take the ball from the defender? No brainer. Ben.

feltdizz
02-04-2013, 04:13 PM
All these excuses for Flacco's success aren't going to help us win the division. So he has big WR's and takes advantage of it. Wow... how unfair is that? He could of had a few picks. Wow... how many did he have in the playoffs? Oh, that's right.. ZERO!!!

Stop making excuses for his success and realize this kid is legit. We were wrong. Well, I thought he would be a problem but even I didn't think he would be this good. I hope our FO respects Flacco more than the fans because all this lying isn't working.

Ghost
02-04-2013, 04:28 PM
Give Flacco credit, he played well (sometimes great) in the playoffs and SB. But he was mediocre for most of the season. It's not as if the Ravens were unstoppable this year. Heck, mid way though, there were real questions about JF being able to get them to the next level. They don't get a few bounces and they are 8-8 this year, maybe 7-9. Having a bruising, bully defense, and big, physical receivers you can just chuck it up to and they go get it, helps out a ton as well.

I'd agree with Feltdizz that the Steelers need to respect the situation (he can play well and he has a good team around him, especially WR's that take advantage of today's rules) and have to find a way t o beat them, but I still wouldn't call him elite. Good and got hot, but I'd still take at least 6 guys over him and possibly a couple of more after we see what he and they do next season. Could change.

lloydroid
02-04-2013, 04:41 PM
The biggest reason why you are right, with JF being the better QB, moving forward, aren't all the factors mentioned, but, instead are JF and BB themselves. Bonehead Ben doesn't get hurt only due to a spotty OL, but due to BB himself. JF had defenders all around him last night, but he doesn't try to play "gun slinger" as BB is fond of saying about himself. He avoided contact, moved around and got rid of the ball. BB would take excessive amount of time to get someone wide open in a backyard football mode. JF isn't a moron. He is measured, cerebral, thoughtful and grounded. Do you think JF would ever find himself skipping out on huge bar bills and trying to score hummers in public bathrooms? BB is a knucklehead. And while bragging about being a "gunslinger" he hasn't been clutch in years. JF now is. And the post season proved it. BB may already be used up, and he has squandered much of his career by being a moron. The team does not even respect him. His sideline speeches are phony.

DBR96A
02-04-2013, 05:52 PM
Comparing offenses to offenses, Ben Roethlisberger has had the worst supporting cast on offense of any top-tier QB in the NFL for the last five seasons. If you disagree with this statement, then you are wrong.

williar
02-05-2013, 12:20 PM
Joe Flacco and it ain't even close for me. Flacco has a much better arm, better brain, better leader and unquestionably the MVP along with Ray Lewis during their superbowl run. It obvious that Flacco has worked hard to become the quarterback that he is. Ben, to the contraire.

feltdizz
02-05-2013, 12:37 PM
Comparing offenses to offenses, Ben Roethlisberger has had the worst supporting cast on offense of any top-tier QB in the NFL for the last five seasons. If you disagree with this statement, then you are wrong.

nice try... 2 years ago we had the "most deadly WR corps in the league" a few drops and brain farts and all of a sudden they are the worst. Our OL hasn't been great but I think part of it is Ben and Mendenhall making them look bad.

2008 Ben can't get the offense moving... we can't score TD's. He gets "re-injured" in the Redskins game and Lefty comes in and marches the same offense down the field with ease. He takes what the D gives and respects the rush. After the game we find out Ben hasn't been practicing with the first team for the last few weeks because he was injured. After Tomlin says the QB who practices will start Ben starts practicing and the offense looks much better.

2011... Mendenhall can't find any holes because the OL can't block. However, when Redman and Dwyer get in games the OL looks magically delicious and holes open up as these slower, straight forward RB's gain 4 to 5 yards a pop. Once Mendenhall returns the OL goes back to boo boo the fool mode.

What's crazy is anytime we get on a role or start tearing it up on offense we have the best of this that and a third.. but when we lose all of a sudden all of our players STINK.

Neither is true IMO and I think we have much better talent at WR, RB (not TE) than the Pats... Our WR's can match up with just about any WR core in the league when utilized correctly.

feltdizz
02-05-2013, 12:40 PM
Joe Flacco and it ain't even close for me. Flacco has a much better arm, better brain, better leader and unquestionably the MVP along with Ray Lewis during their superbowl run. It obvious that Flacco has worked hard to become the quarterback that he is. Ben, to the contraire.

True.. but one has to wonder how hard Flacco, Rogers, Ryan, etc would have worked if they won their first 13 starts and had 2 SB rings in the first 4 years of their career.

I can't blame Ben THAT much for being a little lazy or thinking he could just show up and win because he had the best rookie season I've ever seen from a QB.

williar
02-05-2013, 01:04 PM
True.. but one has to wonder how hard Flacco, Rogers, Ryan, etc would have worked if they won their first 13 starts and had 2 SB rings in the first 4 years of their career.

I can't blame Ben THAT much for being a little lazy or thinking he could just show up and win because he had the best rookie season I've ever seen from a QB.

You are correct, Dizz. I do attribute much of Ben's apathy and lethargy to having so much success early on in his career.

Shoe
02-06-2013, 11:51 PM
No one has mentioned the complacency, the hubris, that tends to creep in when one achieves success. Ben got it (a big head) when he "made it", and he lost his share of Chiclets on the windshield of a car because of it. Once anyone "makes it", he has to fight the sense of complacency that will come from it. It's an example of why (e.g.) giving public school teachers a guaranteed job (tenure) is not a good thing.

At this point in Ben's career, he's got something now to prove. He blew a couple games at the end that either: a) are a harbinger of where he is at as a player, or b) will light a fire under a guy who still has the ability. IMO, it's b. I think Flacco is a solid player though.

Mister Pittsburgh
02-07-2013, 12:37 AM
As I said in another thread, Ben needs to buy into Haleys system 100% in all aspects and lead by example. Stop being a crybaby over Arians cause he isn't coming back and put the work in. Quit throwing the little barbs out in the media about the system and go to work.

BradshawsHairdresser
02-07-2013, 12:59 AM
I'm hoping Ben can win a couple more Super Bowls...I'm not ready to give up on him yet.

Shoe
02-07-2013, 01:18 AM
As I said in another thread, Ben needs to buy into Haleys system 100% in all aspects and lead by example. Stop being a crybaby over Arians cause he isn't coming back and put the work in. Quit throwing the little barbs out in the media about the system and go to work.

I agree. All the revisionist fans look back and complain, based on late-season failures. What they ignore is how efficient the O was before Ben got hurt. We didn't have to suffer through 8 sack games (because Ben had to hold the ball so long)... Ben got the ball out faster, and while not as flashy, the O was steadier.

Another thing Steeler fans totally seem to ignore is how... for this decade, all I hear is how we need to get Heath Miller the ball more. In Haley's offense, Heath was way more productive than previous years. Yet they don't appreciate that fact--that's what they've been asking for all these years!

Mister Pittsburgh
02-07-2013, 01:23 AM
Ben getting injured, missing games, and playing injured, the past two seasons is the biggest reason we lost to Tebow and this year didn't even make the playoffs.

NJ-STEELER
02-07-2013, 02:02 AM
Comparing offenses to offenses, Ben Roethlisberger has had the worst supporting cast on offense of any top-tier QB in the NFL for the last five seasons. If you disagree with this statement, then you are wrong.

And it's not even close.

with free agency officially under way, the steam doesn't hhave a RB or WR

on the roster drafted in the first 2 rounds


is there another team out there that can say that?

grotonsteel
02-07-2013, 02:15 AM
Joe Flacco and it ain't even close for me. Flacco has a much better arm, better brain, better leader and unquestionably the MVP along with Ray Lewis during their superbowl run. It obvious that Flacco has worked hard to become the quarterback that he is. Ben, to the contraire.


Joe Flacco played awesome in post season and SB but in regular season Ben had better numbers.

grotonsteel
02-07-2013, 02:23 AM
Neither is true IMO and I think we have much better talent at WR, RB (not TE) than the Pats... Our WR's can match up with just about any WR core in the league when utilized correctly.

Our WRs are horrible.

AB84 was one the biggest reason Steelers lost Oakland and Dallas games. Can you believe a WR making so much of an impact??

Mike Wallace is a one trick pony...can catch the ball unless its perfectly thrown...

Sanders well he is afraid to get hit. He is a wussy.

Steelers made a big mistake signing AB84 to that contract. Steelers acted like a ditched lover and went to the next chick available and that was AB84 when MW rejected them. AB84 is a career No.2 WR. Steelers need to get a No.1 WR somehow.

Steelers WR are not a good fit if they want to implement Haleys Offense. WRs need to get open quickly...run crisp routes and well make catch in traffic. Steelers WR just cant do it. No toughness in them.

grotonsteel
02-07-2013, 02:32 AM
As I said in another thread, Ben needs to buy into Haleys system 100% in all aspects and lead by example. Stop being a crybaby over Arians cause he isn't coming back and put the work in. Quit throwing the little barbs out in the media about the system and go to work.

Ben is not a rookie. He is a franchise QB. An OC job is to design plays that suit your franchise QB. Flacco was not happy with OC and OC got canned and he had not even won the SB then.

Anyways its not like Haley had a great system..Haley was way too predictable. DBs were just sitting on the routes and daring Steelers to throw deep. Obiviously no running game did not help.

Big Ben had every reason to question the play calling. I would have done the same thing. Maybe not in media but yeah i would be pissed off with rubbish play calling towards the end of the season games.

I hope Haley and Ben work out things in this offseason but i would like to some more deep passes called in a game.

DBR96A
02-07-2013, 05:17 AM
Ben is not a rookie. He is a franchise QB. An OC job is to design plays that suit your franchise QB. Flacco was not happy with OC and OC got canned and he had not even won the SB then.

Anyways its not like Haley had a great system..Haley was way too predictable. DBs were just sitting on the routes and daring Steelers to throw deep. Obiviously no running game did not help.

Big Ben had every reason to question the play calling. I would have done the same thing. Maybe not in media but yeah i would be pissed off with rubbish play calling towards the end of the season games.

I hope Haley and Ben work out things in this offseason but i would like to some more deep passes called in a game.
Once the offensive line improves, the passing game will have more of a vertical component to it because Roethlisberger will actually have time to drop back and throw it deep. Completing a few deep and intermediate passes will keep defenses more honest than they were late in the season, which will open up the short routes again and make the passing game very versatile. The running game will improve too, which will improve down-and-distance situations, the play-action passing game, and, of course, scoring.

I can't wait to see a full season from David DeCastro, and I believe Mike Adams will improve as well. The Steelers should draft another G so the overhaul of the offensive line will be complete. I look forward to a day when we can say that Marcus Gilbert is the worst starting offensive lineman on the team.

grotonsteel
02-07-2013, 09:28 AM
Once the offensive line improves, the passing game will have more of a vertical component to it because Roethlisberger will actually have time to drop back and throw it deep. Completing a few deep and intermediate passes will keep defenses more honest than they were late in the season, which will open up the short routes again and make the passing game very versatile. The running game will improve too, which will improve down-and-distance situations, the play-action passing game, and, of course, scoring.

I can't wait to see a full season from David DeCastro, and I believe Mike Adams will improve as well. The Steelers should draft another G so the overhaul of the offensive line will be complete. I look forward to a day when we can say that Marcus Gilbert is the worst starting offensive lineman on the team.

Well Said..

Healthy Offensive line could do wonders to Steelers Offense.

feltdizz
02-07-2013, 09:45 AM
Our WRs are horrible.

AB84 was one the biggest reason Steelers lost Oakland and Dallas games. Can you believe a WR making so much of an impact??

Mike Wallace is a one trick pony...can catch the ball unless its perfectly thrown...

Sanders well he is afraid to get hit. He is a wussy.

Steelers made a big mistake signing AB84 to that contract. Steelers acted like a ditched lover and went to the next chick available and that was AB84 when MW rejected them. AB84 is a career No.2 WR. Steelers need to get a No.1 WR somehow.

Steelers WR are not a good fit if they want to implement Haleys Offense. WRs need to get open quickly...run crisp routes and well make catch in traffic. Steelers WR just cant do it. No toughness in them.

Maybe he Haley offense had something to do with the WR's taking a step back? It's their first year in a new offense and all of a sudden our WR core is trash. I think we need to give them another year before tossing them to the curb.

..and a WR fumbling is no different than a QB throwing a game ending INT or a RB fumbling in crunch time. It happens from time to time but it shouldn't define their career.

Mister Pittsburgh
02-07-2013, 09:46 AM
Ben is not a rookie. He is a franchise QB. An OC job is to design plays that suit your franchise QB. Flacco was not happy with OC and OC got canned and he had not even won the SB then. (The OC's job is to design plays that best suit the 11 guys on offense, not just the QB & OC in Ravenland got canned because he wasn't running the ball more and letting Flacco take shots downfield to his WR's, which by the way are superior to our WR's)

Anyways its not like Haley had a great system..Haley was way too predictable. DBs were just sitting on the routes and daring Steelers to throw deep. Obiviously no running game did not help. (Yet somehow Haley's system got Arizona to the SB with an older non mobile QB and 2 WR's but no RB at all and gave KC a top 5 RB with no WR's to speak of....but yeah...he is clueless....Rooney's have no idea what they are doing at all...BTW, i have read on multiple occasions where Kurt Warner who also has SB rings was singing Haleys praises).

Big Ben had every reason to question the play calling. I would have done the same thing. Maybe not in media but yeah i would be pissed off with rubbish play calling towards the end of the season games. (Yeah....would be a typical Ben move to question the playcalling when he was off to an MVP season with his best TD to INT percentage ever and his sack numbers were way down...which BTW, his injury was due to him holding onto the football and running around...just like last season).

I hope Haley and Ben work out things in this offseason but i would like to some more deep passes called in a game. (I would modify that to if Ben gets his head out of his butt and into a playbook and embraces what isn't going to go away we will have a solid offense and his career will probably be extended another 2 to 3 seasons giving him an additional tens of millions of dollars in earnings for his career)

....................

papillon
02-07-2013, 11:22 AM
Right now Joe Flacco is the elite quarterback "du jour", because of his performance in the playoffs. At the mid-point of the season Ravens fans were discussing not giving him a contract and to look in a different direction, now they're all amped up to give Joe the keys to the city. Joe Flacco has made positive strides as an NFL quarterback form year to year and now in his fifth year he is playing at a high level. Kaepernick was all that for a few weeks, Ryan was the greatest thing since sliced bread, they were measuring Wilson for his HOF jacket along with RGIII, what all these guys have in common and not in common with Ben is that they haven't proven to be able to sustain a high level of play over a 16 game season and then into the playoffs.

And, while Ben has made some throws that make you say hmmm recently he still has proven that he's more than capable of taking a team into the playoffs. Everyone has bad games, bad stretches of games,etc, but Ben's overall statistics and success for 9 years is top shelf. The Steeler offense has never had the compliment of players that other top tier quarterbacks have. Burress, Holmes and now Wallace, players that had to be accounted for never saw their second contracts, Bettis was at the tail end of his career, Parker was a one-trick pony running back, Mendenhall has been injured, Ward and Miller have been the only constants at the skill positions for Ben, the offensive line has been decimated at times by injuries and in a constant state of flux and yet, Ben and the Steeler offense has succeeded well enough to to be in three Super Bowls, winning two of them.

I can't speak to other teams offensive line situation, but during the Super Bowl it was said that the 49ers offensive line didn't miss one single game all year, that's unbelievable. And, in reality, can't really say for sure that the skill players for other top tier quarterbacks have been constant, but it seems anytime the Steeler are playing top teams the names that need to be defended are typically playing and are the same players year after year.

Lets see how Joe does next year and if he can sustain the level of play he put on tape in the playoffs, same with RGIII, Luck, Wilson and Kaepernick. The Ravens started the process of defending the read option by hitting anything that moved in the backfield and, since, its an option and the quarterback could be a running back he isn't protected as well. It will be interesting to see how defenses adjust to this style offense.

Pappy

feltdizz
02-07-2013, 11:48 AM
Sorry Pap but Flacco has been getting better every year... that logic works for the rookies but I dont buy it for Flacco. Seems like every yeqr we hear the "lets see what he does next year"

Give Flacco credit. If they go 9-7 next year what will it prove? The guy has a SB mvp, tied montana with 11 tds and no picks... and has an impressive playoff record.

I have a feeling it will be 9 year or 10 years into his career and a few fans will still try the "wait til next year" with this kid.

feltdizz
02-07-2013, 12:04 PM
...and one other thing, their OL has been good but they also did a a lot of shuffling this year to try and get it right... and Flacco doesnt miss games. I have seen him take some big hits playing us but he is a pretty tough guy. Ben is tough as well but the injuries and hits have taken a toll and I fear he will never play 16 games

supersteeler
02-07-2013, 12:26 PM
Comparing offenses to offenses, Ben Roethlisberger has had the worst supporting cast on offense of any top-tier QB in the NFL for the last five seasons. If you disagree with this statement, then you are wrong.

I would agree with that to an extent, prior to this year Ben did have the receiver corps playing pretty well with both Wallace and Brown having 1,000 receiving yards. Our issue whether its injuries or the players is our O-line not having continuity as they had to play musical chairs across that line, plus our running game.

Ben doesn't have an even playing field when he is compared to the top QB's, as they have a run game and O-line to work with. Remember, Ben was having one of his best years prior to all the injuries, even with no run game imagine him having both how good he can be.

Flacco was great in the playoffs and SB, but inconsistent in the regular season. If he can duplicate what he did next year on a consistent basis then he deserves to be mentioned with the best. I'll take Ben over flacco, we know what Ben is capable of with a supporting cast these other QB's enjoy.

It's tough to compare any players regardless of the position they play.
Example, Emmit Smith has the most rushing yards in the history of the game, but is he the best RB? I would say no, he had an all pro line to block for him which helped him get all those yards and played on a winning team. On the other hand Barry Sanders didn't have the same caliber of O-linemen that Dallas had but still was able to get the yards, many on his own ability.

NJ-STEELER
02-07-2013, 12:54 PM
Sorry Pap but Flacco has been getting better every year... that logic works for the rookies but I dont buy it for Flacco. Seems like every yeqr we hear the "lets see what he does next year"

Give Flacco credit. If they go 9-7 next year what will it prove? The guy has a SB mvp, tied montana with 11 tds and no picks... and has an impressive playoff record.

I have a feeling it will be 9 year or 10 years into his career and a few fans will still try the "wait til next year" with this kid.


Their own FO might take that approach by franchising him this year

Mister Pittsburgh
02-07-2013, 01:12 PM
No real use in arguing this. We got Ben for the next few years. I would strongly suggest trying to draft a QB in the 2 through 5 range to take a shot on and try and groom though because Ben has been injured the past two seasons for large chunks of the season and as I said earlier, those injuries pretty much were the back-breakers on the season. Batch and Leftwich should not be here next season.

papillon
02-07-2013, 01:45 PM
Sorry Pap but Flacco has been getting better every year... that logic works for the rookies but I dont buy it for Flacco. Seems like every yeqr we hear the "lets see what he does next year"

Give Flacco credit. If they go 9-7 next year what will it prove? The guy has a SB mvp, tied montana with 11 tds and no picks... and has an impressive playoff record.

I have a feeling it will be 9 year or 10 years into his career and a few fans will still try the "wait til next year" with this kid.

Felt, here's the quote (below) in my post saying that exact thing about Flacco. I gave him all kinds of credit for his post season play, his regular season this year was average. I doubt we see him regress, but maintaining this level of play isn't as easy as it may seem, time will tell...


Joe Flacco has made positive strides as an NFL quarterback form year to year and now in his fifth year he is playing at a high level.

What will be interesting to see is after they give Joe that 100 million contract and the quality of player around has to suffer because of his contract and cap space will he be able to carry the team. Some think Boldin may already be a cap casualty and possibly Krueger, then the burden falls even more so on the quarterback.

Look at the Steelers, they stretched paying the piper for three years by restructuring and now the bill is coming due and many difficult cuts have to be made. The Steelers believed with their core (and rightfully so) players they had a chance to win Super Bowls, you can't foresee who will be injured and who won't. Now the players they relied on or at least some of them will have to released and/or cut. The same fate will hit the Ravens a few years down the road when you're paying one player 10% of the cap space and a handful of players chew up 40%-50% of the space, its what the NFL wants.

Pappy

feltdizz
02-07-2013, 01:50 PM
I agree MP^^^

but let's be honest... 2 years ago 99% of the board wanted BA gone because he wasn't taking advantage of our awesome weapons at WR. Now all of a sudden these guys are bums in the "first year" of a new offense.

Mister Pittsburgh
02-08-2013, 12:15 AM
Brown will go back out and run Wallace routes and do well. Sanders needs to take a step forward. We need an upgrade with more upside instead of Cotchery. I would consider Plaxico if he came back near the minimum as we need a WR that can be used sort of like a pass catching TE and situationally like in the endzone. Heath may miss a majority of next season. With that said, we will need to address TE in he draft.

grotonsteel
02-08-2013, 12:44 AM
Maybe he Haley offense had something to do with the WR's taking a step back? It's their first year in a new offense and all of a sudden our WR core is trash. I think we need to give them another year before tossing them to the curb.

..and a WR fumbling is no different than a QB throwing a game ending INT or a RB fumbling in crunch time. It happens from time to time but it shouldn't define their career.

Problem is Mike Wallace is gone. He was the best WR of the lot.

Sanders well either cant remain healthy or just cant take a step forward.

AB84 had brain farts last season. Maybe it was the injury or the money. Hopefully he regains his form.

WR Corp of AB84-Sanders-Cotchery is not going to strike fear in opponents D. They need to upgrade it.

grotonsteel
02-08-2013, 12:59 AM
.Anyways its not like Haley had a great system..Haley was way too predictable. DBs were just sitting on the routes and daring Steelers to throw deep. Obiviously no running game did not help. (Yet somehow Haley's system got Arizona to the SB with an older non mobile QB and 2 WR's but no RB at all and gave KC a top 5 RB with no WR's to speak of....but yeah...he is clueless....Rooney's have no idea what they are doing at all...BTW, i have read on multiple occasions where Kurt Warner who also has SB rings was singing Haleys praises).

Big Ben had every reason to question the play calling. I would have done the same thing. Maybe not in media but yeah i would be pissed off with rubbish play calling towards the end of the season games. (Yeah....would be a typical Ben move to question the playcalling when he was off to an MVP season with his best TD to INT percentage ever and his sack numbers were way down...which BTW, his injury was due to him holding onto the football and running around...just like last season).

I hope Haley and Ben work out things in this offseason but i would like to some more deep passes called in a game. (I would modify that to if Ben gets his head out of his butt and into a playbook and embraces what isn't going to go away we will have a solid offense and his career will probably be extended another 2 to 3 seasons giving him an additional tens of millions of dollars in earnings for his career)

Haley offence in KC was great one year. Yup one year. Guess who was the OC. Charlie Weiss. Regarding Top 5 RB well Steelers had 3 pro-bowlers on offense last season. So BA offense was great i guess. And what did Ben questioned?? Give more passes to Heath instead of UDFA RB??? Go more no-huddle?? Throw few more vertical passes??? Ben saved Haley's arse with out of the world 3rd percentage. Todd Haley neutered Mike Wallace. As i said if you think Todd Haley play calling towards the end of the season was out of the world well expect more 8-8 season. Even his own KC player (Brandon Carr) went on record that he knew what Todd Haley would do in that situation. Ben needs to learn new offense and its not easy at 31 but Haley himself need to start calling better games. As i said with better O-Line and running game play-action will come into picture.

Ben injury was a freak injury. He was not running around. If he threw the ball it could have been intentional grounding on 3rd down. In the hind sight he should have taken a penalty but taking a sack at that time was not a bad idea. Ben got injured on that play well tough luck i would say.

feltdizz
02-08-2013, 01:01 AM
MW was our fastest WR... not our best IMO. Whoever runs the fly route will post decent numbers. Nate Washington made a ton of money running go routes. Put Brown in his spot and I think our WR core will be fine. WR is a pretty easy position to fill...

Mister Pittsburgh
02-08-2013, 01:07 AM
Haley offence in KC was great one year. Yup one year. Guess who was the OC. Charlie Weiss. Regarding Top 5 RB well Steelers had 3 pro-bowlers on offense last season. So BA offense was great i guess. And what did Ben questioned?? Give more passes to Heath instead of UDFA RB??? Go more no-huddle?? Throw few more vertical passes??? Ben saved Haley's arse with out of the world 3rd percentage. Todd Haley neutered Mike Wallace. As i said if you think Todd Haley play calling towards the end of the season was out of the world well expect more 8-8 season. Even his own KC player (Brandon Carr) went on record that he knew what Todd Haley would do in that situation. Ben needs to learn new offense and its not easy at 31 but Haley himself need to start calling better games. As i said with better O-Line and running game play-action will come into picture.

Ben injury was a freak injury. He was not running around. If he threw the ball it could have been intentional grounding on 3rd down. In the hind sight he should have taken a penalty but taking a sack at that time was not a bad idea. Ben got injured on that play well tough luck i would say.

Amazingly, with how pathetic you say our offense was, Ben was having the best season statistically in his career until he got injured again while running around holding onto the ball.

feltdizz
02-08-2013, 01:08 AM
The play Ben was injured on was avoidable.. its not like Haley has deep patterns and Ben didnt have a wr to toss it. In the dirt. He also could have run for a few yards. Maybe it was a freak accident but he is the master of freak accidents. I expect the same thing to happen every year... not broken bones or season endijg but just enough to miss a few games or get the "if he was healthy we could make a run" story line.

grotonsteel
02-08-2013, 01:22 AM
Amazingly, with how pathetic you say our offense was, Ben was having the best season statistically in his career until he got injured again while running around holding onto the ball.

As is said Todd Haley became way too predictable as the season progressed. Maybe its the injuries to O-line and no running game. We will figure it out in 2013.

NJ-STEELER
02-08-2013, 03:06 AM
Haley offence in KC was great one year. Yup one year. Guess who was the OC. Charlie Weiss. Regarding Top 5 RB well Steelers had 3 pro-bowlers on offense last season. So BA offense was great i guess. And what did Ben questioned?? Give more passes to Heath instead of UDFA RB??? Go more no-huddle?? Throw few more vertical passes??? Ben saved Haley's arse with out of the world 3rd percentage. Todd Haley neutered Mike Wallace. As i said if you think Todd Haley play calling towards the end of the season was out of the world well expect more 8-8 season. Even his own KC player (Brandon Carr) went on record that he knew what Todd Haley would do in that situation. Ben needs to learn new offense and its not easy at 31 but Haley himself need to start calling better games. As i said with better O-Line and running game play-action will come into picture.

Ben injury was a freak injury. He was not running around. If he threw the ball it could have been intentional grounding on 3rd down. In the hind sight he should have taken a penalty but taking a sack at that time was not a bad idea. Ben got injured on that play well tough luck i would say.

yeah, thats what im not getting with all the "ben criticized the play calling"


he was asked why they didnt go to miller more inthe 2nd half (after scoring a TD vs. dallas in the 1st)

is heath running deep post or fly patterns?? as the bashers think he wants to throw the long ball?. he recognized a mismatch but the play calling moved away from it