In the SB history are there any other QB to....

[Steelhere10]

Win two and no MVP award? Even Flacco can win one, do we Steeler fans have Ben overrated.

[Mister Pittsburgh]

Ben has played poorly other than one drive vs Arizona. Flaccos WR's made him look good too...plus a little luck.

[feltdizz]

Outside of the last drive vs AZ... can you really say Ben played at an MVP level?

[SteelBucks]

It's Bruce Arians' fault....;)

[SteelBucks]

After checking, Ben was 21/30 for 256 against the Cards. Not huge numbers but could have easily been MVP in that game. He was awful in SB XL, but they don't get there without him.

[supersteeler]

Win two and no MVP award? Even Flacco can win one, do we Steeler fans have Ben overrated.

No, I don't think Steelers fans overrate Ben, what they will do is call him out when he's playing poorly. In the Seattle SB Ben didn't play well, but he played well against the Cards and decent against GB. The thing is without him we don't even get to the SB, its what he did to get us there.

Ben isn't the best QB out there, but no one can question is toughness. He won 15 games as a rookie, the youngest QB to win a SB, but more than the numbers he's the toughest QB to play the game.
Overrated? Nah, he just wants to win SB's. Since He's been our QB only three QB's have won multiple SB's, Brady, Eli Manning, an Ben. He helped the Steelers GET to three SB'S so again he isn't overrated in our eyes, we call it like it is....Ben's a champion!

[Slapstick]

Terry wasn't awarded the MVP until the Steelers' third SB victory...it was Franco and then Swanny in the first two...

[rpmpit]

As has been stated, Ben could/should have won it in the Cards SB. I still don't understand how a receiver wins the MVP if he doesn't have a qb throwing him MVP-worthy passes.

[feltdizz]

As has been stated, Ben could/should have won it in the Cards SB. I still don't understand how a receiver wins the MVP if he doesn't have a qb throwing him MVP-worthy passes.

the toes...

[feltdizz]

No, I don't think Steelers fans overrate Ben, what they will do is call him out when he's playing poorly. In the Seattle SB Ben didn't play well, but he played well against the Cards and decent against GB. The thing is without him we don't even get to the SB, its what he did to get us there.

Ben isn't the best QB out there, but no one can question is toughness. He won 15 games as a rookie, the youngest QB to win a SB, but more than the numbers he's the toughest QB to play the game.
Overrated? Nah, he just wants to win SB's. Since He's been our QB only three QB's have won multiple SB's, Brady, Eli Manning, an Ben. He helped the Steelers GET to three SB'S so again he isn't overrated in our eyes, we call it like it is....Ben's a champion!

the whole "we don't get there without him" doesn't make sense to me... you can say that about every QB in the SB who won the MVP.

Ben is a great QB but IMO he has to have an MVP performance in the SB to get the award. The run up to it in 2005 or his rookie season doesn't serve any purpose when talking about the SB MVP.

It's not that serious IMO...

[Steelhere10]

the whole "we don't get there without him" doesn't make sense to me... you can say that about every QB in the SB who won the MVP.

Ben is a great QB but IMO he has to have an MVP performance in the SB to get the award. The run up to it in 2005 or his rookie season doesn't serve any purpose when talking about the SB MVP.

It's not that serious IMO...But does it matter when it comes to the Hall of Fame, Or is he even worthy?

[Mister Pittsburgh]

As has been stated, Ben could/should have won it in the Cards SB. I still don't understand how a receiver wins the MVP if he doesn't have a qb throwing him MVP-worthy passes.

Holmes deserved that. Only reason we were on the 5 for Ben to throw the pass that Holmes amazingly caught on his tip-toes, was due to Holmes catching a 10 yd pass and sprinting down the sideline for a huge gain to put us at the 5.

The only playoff game I can recall where Ben was lights out was the one we played at Denver where he was untouchable.

Flacco's receivers made him look terrific last night though. Boldin was a beast. Flacco underthrew Jones on the one TD only for Jones to smartly get up after the DB stupidly jumped over him and ran by him.. He had a lucky bomb down the sideline that he lofted after facing pressure and Boldin went up and took it away from a defensive back when he was behind the defensive back and had to catch it over the DB's head. Boldin had the nice leaping TD catch. I don't see our WR crew making a few of those big catches.

[phillyesq]

the whole "we don't get there without him" doesn't make sense to me... you can say that about every QB in the SB who won the MVP.

Ben is a great QB but IMO he has to have an MVP performance in the SB to get the award. The run up to it in 2005 or his rookie season doesn't serve any purpose when talking about the SB MVP.

It's not that serious IMO...

I agree. Ben played amazing football during that playoff run in 2005 but should not have been the SB MVP. There is a better argument for the AZ Super Bowl since he had to put 2 passes in the end zone for Holmes on that last drive, but that could have gone either way.

[feltdizz]

But does it matter when it comes to the Hall of Fame, Or is he even worthy?

I think he is worthy of HOF

I'm talking strictly about SB MVP

[feltdizz]

Holmes deserved that. Only reason we were on the 5 for Ben to throw the pass that Holmes amazingly caught on his tip-toes, was due to Holmes catching a 10 yd pass and sprinting down the sideline for a huge gain to put us at the 5.

The only playoff game I can recall where Ben was lights out was the one we played at Denver where he was untouchable.

Flacco's receivers made him look terrific last night though. Boldin was a beast. Flacco underthrew Jones on the one TD only for Jones to smartly get up after the DB stupidly jumped over him and ran by him.. He had a lucky bomb down the sideline that he lofted after facing pressure and Boldin went up and took it away from a defensive back when he was behind the defensive back and had to catch it over the DB's head. Boldin had the nice leaping TD catch. I don't see our WR crew making a few of those big catches.

nah.... I think it goes both ways. Flacco knows he has WR's who can go up and get it so he can throw those types of passes... some QB's are too scared to throw those passes for fear of an INT.

[papillon]

nah.... I think it goes both ways. Flacco knows he has WR's who can go up and get it so he can throw those types of passes... some QB's are too scared to throw those passes for fear of an INT.

Which Steeler receiver makes the three sideline catches Boldin makes? I don't think any, Boldin has been a security blanket for a quarterback that played great football during the playoffs, combine that with Boldin just completely dominating defensive backs during the playoffs and you have a good combination. Joe could make risky throws and the deep one down the sideline while on the run was extremely risky, but he knew Boldin would at least make sure it isn't intercepted.

The Steelers don't have a WR that is remotely capable of making a play like that, let alone 2 or three per game. I won't be too sad to see Wallace go and hopefully, 1.17 or 2.48 brings a physical receiver or a TE that can get down field like Vernon Davis to the Steelers to compliment Brown. The Steeler receivers need Ben to be perfect with his throws to be successful; he won't always be perfect as we know.

Pappy

[Mister Pittsburgh]

exactly pap...how many times did we see wallace stand there and watch the DB intercept a pass?

[feltdizz]

Flacco is taking advantage of the weapons he has at WR. Its pretty simple IMO.

[flippy]

Which Steeler receiver makes the three sideline catches Boldin makes? I don't think any, Boldin has been a security blanket for a quarterback that played great football during the playoffs, combine that with Boldin just completely dominating defensive backs during the playoffs and you have a good combination. Joe could make risky throws and the deep one down the sideline while on the run was extremely risky, but he knew Boldin would at least make sure it isn't intercepted.

The Steelers don't have a WR that is remotely capable of making a play like that, let alone 2 or three per game. I won't be too sad to see Wallace go and hopefully, 1.17 or 2.48 brings a physical receiver or a TE that can get down field like Vernon Davis to the Steelers to compliment Brown. The Steeler receivers need Ben to be perfect with his throws to be successful; he won't always be perfect as we know.

Pappy

IMHO, Ben still plays like Kaepernick. Waits til a guy is wide open and then guns it. I don't see Ben attempting Flacco's throws even with Boldin or Fitz or AJ or whomever.

[Mister Pittsburgh]

Ben doesn't have Kaepernick's speed anymore. Not close to it. And I am unsure if he has the arm to put the zip on the throws anymore due to the partially torn rotator cuff or whatever it was he came into the season with. No idea why he wouldn't of had that repaired early in the offseason and rehabbed it hard when his career is about throwing a football.

[phillyesq]

Which Steeler receiver makes the three sideline catches Boldin makes? I don't think any, Boldin has been a security blanket for a quarterback that played great football during the playoffs, combine that with Boldin just completely dominating defensive backs during the playoffs and you have a good combination. Joe could make risky throws and the deep one down the sideline while on the run was extremely risky, but he knew Boldin would at least make sure it isn't intercepted.

The Steelers don't have a WR that is remotely capable of making a play like that, let alone 2 or three per game. I won't be too sad to see Wallace go and hopefully, 1.17 or 2.48 brings a physical receiver or a TE that can get down field like Vernon Davis to the Steelers to compliment Brown. The Steeler receivers need Ben to be perfect with his throws to be successful; he won't always be perfect as we know.

Pappy

This is a great point. The Steelers really need a WR who can fight for a ball and win the battle consistently, even if they are not open.

[Mister Pittsburgh]

This is a great point. The Steelers really need a WR who can fight for a ball and win the battle consistently, even if they are not open.

Or a pass catching TE. I would sign Plaxico, then draft a TE early. Once Heath comes back you can pick and choose out of the 3 big bodied players.

[feltdizz]

This is a great point. The Steelers really need a WR who can fight for a ball and win the battle consistently, even if they are not open.

yep... but until we do, how about putting the WR's we have in a better position to use their speed?

[Mister Pittsburgh]

yep... but until we do, how about putting the WR's we have in a better position to use their speed?
Depends how you want to look at it....some would argue Haley's offense wasn't good for speed receivers but I think it is....they can use their speed the same...beat defenders in a footrace....only difference being they have the ball in their hands 5 or 10 yds from the LOS instead of 30 yds downfield. Sanders/Brown have the type of speed that if they make one DB miss on the tackle they are off to the races.

I'll take a high percentage attack where they get the ball in their hands more often, then one where your offense sucks unless you can connect on a 30 yard bomb.

[feltdizz]

Depends how you want to look at it....some would argue Haley's offense wasn't good for speed receivers but I think it is....they can use their speed the same...beat defenders in a footrace....only difference being they have the ball in their hands 5 or 10 yds from the LOS instead of 30 yds downfield. Sanders/Brown have the type of speed that if they make one DB miss on the tackle they are off to the races.

I'll take a high percentage attack where they get the ball in their hands more often, then one where your offense sucks unless you can connect on a 30 yard bomb.

not me.. I think they are more dangerous when they are behind the DB's when catching the ball in the 15 to 20 yard range. Too many drops, fumbles and short arms... These guys are small and easily injured...

[DBR96A]

the toes...
The perfectly-thrown pass that enabled the toes...



Holmes deserved that. Only reason we were on the 5 for Ben to throw the pass that Holmes amazingly caught on his tip-toes, was due to Holmes catching a 10 yd pass and sprinting down the sideline for a huge gain to put us at the 5.
And the only reason Holmes sprinted down the sideline was because Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie bit on Roethlisberger's pump fake to Mewelde Moore in the right flat, leaving a gaping hole in the secondary for Holmes to run through. Face it; Holmes' two big plays on that drive were set up by Roethlisberger.

By the way, Jim Plunkett, Doug Williams and Mark Rypien are Super Bowl MVPs, and Brett Favre is not. I guess Favre sucks, huh? Oh, and if Peyton Manning deserves the MVP award with a 65% completion rate, 6.8 YPA, one TD pass, two turnovers and an 81.8 rating in Super Bowl XLI despite Dominic Rhodes having over five YPC and a TD run, then Roethlisberger sure as **** deserved it with a 70% completion rate, 8.5 YPA, one TD pass, one turnover and a 93.2 rating despite all 58 yards and both YPC provided by the running game in Super Bowl XLIII.

Maybe the award is overrated anyway, considering fans get to vote like they do for the Pro Bowl.

[supersteeler]

the whole "we don't get there without him" doesn't make sense to me... you can say that about every QB in the SB who won the MVP.

Ben is a great QB but IMO he has to have an MVP performance in the SB to get the award. The run up to it in 2005 or his rookie season doesn't serve any purpose when talking about the SB MVP.

It's not that serious IMO...


I was responding to Steel10 question,



Win two and no MVP award? Even Flacco can win one, do we Steeler fans have Ben overrated.






Originally Posted by supersteeler
No, I don't think Steelers fans overrate Ben, what they will do is call him out when he's playing poorly. In the Seattle SB Ben didn't play well, but he played well against the Cards and decent against GB. The thing is without him we don't even get to the SB, its what he did to get us there.

Ben isn't the best QB out there, but no one can question is toughness. He won 15 games as a rookie, the youngest QB to win a SB, but more than the numbers he's the toughest QB to play the game.
Overrated? Nah, he just wants to win SB's. Since He's been our QB only three QB's have won multiple SB's, Brady, Eli Manning, an Ben. He helped the Steelers GET to three SB'S so again he isn't overrated in our eyes, we call it like it is....Ben's a champion!

[NJ-STEELER]

Holmes deserved that. Only reason we were on the 5 for Ben to throw the pass that Holmes amazingly caught on his tip-toes, was due to Holmes catching a 10 yd pass and sprinting down the sideline for a huge gain to put us at the 5.

The only playoff game I can recall where Ben was lights out was the one we played at Denver where he was untouchable.

Flacco's receivers made him look terrific last night though. Boldin was a beast. Flacco underthrew Jones on the one TD only for Jones to smartly get up after the DB stupidly jumped over him and ran by him.. He had a lucky bomb down the sideline that he lofted after facing pressure and Boldin went up and took it away from a defensive back when he was behind the defensive back and had to catch it over the DB's head. Boldin had the nice leaping TD catch. I don't see our WR crew making a few of those big catches.


ben's pump fake brought francisco up on the play then he slipped as he tried getting back in position when holmes caught the pass

[Slapstick]

I was responding to Steel10 question,



Win two and no MVP award? Even Flacco can win one, do we Steeler fans have Ben overrated.





Again, Bradshaw wasn't awarded a SB MVP until his 3rd victory...

[supersteeler]

Again, Bradshaw wasn't awarded a SB MVP until his 3rd victory...

Again, Ben is not overrated. I'm well aware of Bradshaw and his MVP award, what I'm trying to convey is Ben is a winner.
Maybe not in the numbers or awards but he got us to three SB's so no he's not overrated.


Let me put it this way, give Ben an O-line and a back that can run to balance this offense and Ben could get his awards, but he's not worried about his stats he wants championships!!!

[Mister Pittsburgh]

The perfectly-thrown pass that enabled the toes...



And the only reason Holmes sprinted down the sideline was because Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie bit on Roethlisberger's pump fake to Mewelde Moore in the right flat, leaving a gaping hole in the secondary for Holmes to run through. Face it; Holmes' two big plays on that drive were set up by Roethlisberger.

By the way, Jim Plunkett, Doug Williams and Mark Rypien are Super Bowl MVPs, and Brett Favre is not. I guess Favre sucks, huh? Oh, and if Peyton Manning deserves the MVP award with a 65% completion rate, 6.8 YPA, one TD pass, two turnovers and an 81.8 rating in Super Bowl XLI despite Dominic Rhodes having over five YPC and a TD run, then Roethlisberger sure as **** deserved it with a 70% completion rate, 8.5 YPA, one TD pass, one turnover and a 93.2 rating despite all 58 yards and both YPC provided by the running game in Super Bowl XLIII.

Maybe the award is overrated anyway, considering fans get to vote like they do for the Pro Bowl.

I did not say Ben sucked or any other QB sucks for not being named SB MVP.

[feltdizz]

I did not say Ben sucked or any other QB sucks for not being named SB MVP.

Yeah... i wondered where that came from.

[SS Laser]

I don't think Flacco should have got the MVP. I think Jacoby Jones was the MVP for the Ravens. A case could be made for Boldin also. In some super bowls there is a very clear winner and others it could go to a few different guys. Is it really that big of an award if there is not a clear cut stand out player?

[feltdizz]

I don't think Flacco should have got the MVP. I think Jacoby Jones was the MVP for the Ravens. A case could be made for Boldin also. In some super bowls there is a very clear winner and others it could go to a few different guys. Is it really that big of an award if there is not a clear cut stand out player?

Anytime a QB throws 3 TDs and over 200 yards in one half he will win MVP

[DBR96A]

ben's pump fake brought francisco up on the play then he slipped as he tried getting back in position when holmes caught the pass
My mistake; I thought it was Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie. Either way, Roethlisberger is the reason the hole that Santonio Holmes ran through existed. Had the ball just been thrown to Holmes with no pump fake to Mewelde Moore, then Holmes would have only had a 10-yard catch since the defenders would have stayed in place.

Anybody who claims, or even implies, that Holmes "did all the work" on that drive either lacks knowledge or memory of how the plays transpired, or has an agenda against Roethlisberger. Steve Young even gave Roethlisberger credit for the big catch and run, and was the person who pointed out how the pump fake manipulated the defense in the first place.



I did not say Ben sucked or any other QB sucks for not being named SB MVP.

Well I'm making a case as for why Roethlisberger should have been the Super Bowl XLIII MVP anyway, because he put Santonio Holmes in a position to succeed.

[papillon]

IMHO, Ben still plays like Kaepernick. Waits til a guy is wide open and then guns it. I don't see Ben attempting Flacco's throws even with Boldin or Fitz or AJ or whomever.

I disagree with the opinion that Ben waits for a receiver to be open to throw the ball and I know that seems to be the general consensus from those that sit in their family rooms and watch football games. You don't complete 63% of your passes in the NFL waiting for a receiver to be open and then throwing the football, you'll also more than likely have a much interception rate than Ben has. What looks like Ben waiting for a receiver to be open is him getting through the reads and not finding an available option and then he starts to improvise the play and it looks like he's waiting and at that time he probably is looking for an open receiver. You have about 3 to 3.5 seconds to determine if any of your primary targets are going to be open after that you're looking for any available body.

Pappy

[Mister Pittsburgh]

My mistake; I thought it was Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie. Either way, Roethlisberger is the reason the hole that Santonio Holmes ran through existed. Had the ball just been thrown to Holmes with no pump fake to Mewelde Moore, then Holmes would have only had a 10-yard catch since the defenders would have stayed in place.

Anybody who claims, or even implies, that Holmes "did all the work" on that drive either lacks knowledge or memory of how the plays transpired, or has an agenda against Roethlisberger. Steve Young even gave Roethlisberger credit for the big catch and run, and was the person who pointed out how the pump fake manipulated the defense in the first place.




Well I'm making a case as for why Roethlisberger should have been the Super Bowl XLIII MVP anyway, because he put Santonio Holmes in a position to succeed.

Ben's pump fake was due to a big Arizona DL hand up in his face and was a decent amount of time before any DB bit and fell. The DB was closing on Holmes after Holmes found a void and sat down in it, then after the catch spun out in a big C and cut it up field causing the slip. He very well may of had a huge gain even if the DB doesn't fall down.

On the drive Holmes had two other huge first down catches on 3rd down. And then caps the drive off with the best catch in Superbowl history. I'm not saying Ben didn't have a great performance on the drive, but what Holmes did makes him the MVP of the game. Go educate yourself and rewatch the drive.

[DBR96A]

Ben's pump fake was due to a big Arizona DL hand up in his face...

Where?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v437/DBR96/Pittsburgh%20PA/Pumpfakeinmotion_zps9b09ec12.jpg

The image above is the precise moment of the pump fake. You can see the ball and Roethlisberger's arm at the PIT 46-yard line, and absolutely nobody between him and Mewelde Moore. Furthermore, I don't see any defenders particularly close to Roethlisberger, let alone any hands up. Quit lying to me.



Go educate yourself and rewatch the drive.

Where do you think I got the still image from?

By the way, the ball was caught at the ARZ 35-yard line, which means that the pass was intermediate, and not some dump-off near the line of scrimmage in which all the yardage was after the catch.

[feltdizz]

Ben uses his pump fake to get DB's to hesitate... so yeah, the hesitation could cause a DB to run harder to close on the WR (who was running back towards the QB) but c'mon... his pump fake doesn't make DB's slip or miss tackles once the WR catches the ball. If Ben has a pump fake that can make guys fall over and miss tackles we would have 9 rings by now.

The pump fake makes it easier to complete passes... but it doesn't knock guys over or send shock waves on the field.

[feltdizz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Oaz3-FTW-k

17 second mark...

When Holmes is about to catch the ball at the 35 the DB is at the 30... he isn't falling over due to the pump fake, he fell over because Holmes broke outside. Ben was great on the last drive but he doesn't have the power to make a guy fall like you claim.

[Mister Pittsburgh]

If you watch the play live you can clearly see at around 4:00 of the video the LDE bull-rushes Colon straight back about 5 yards then jumps with his arm extended right beside Ben causing him to pump. The DB was sprinting up to tackle Holmes when Holmes snatches the ball out of the air and changes his running direction in a 'C' toward the sideline so the dude was out of control trying to close on Holmes and slipped trying to stop.

Moore was standing on the 47 yard line on the pump fake and the DB that slipped was on the 31 at the time of the slip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzDawiYEpFU

[Mister Pittsburgh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Oaz3-FTW-k

17 second mark...

When Holmes is about to catch the ball at the 35 the DB is at the 30... he isn't falling over due to the pump fake, he fell over because Holmes broke outside. Ben was great on the last drive but he doesn't have the power to make a guy fall like you claim.

Agreed. Like I said before, Ben played great on that final drive but Holmes caught that pass and broke outside and would of ripped off a huge gain whether the DB fell or not. Then the actual TD grab, keeping his tip toes in bounds, is just a superb catch. Really good throw but superb catch.

[ikestops85]

Ben uses the pump fake to get DBs out of position. He is probably the best in the league right now at the pump fake. In the SB against Arizona Ben used the pump fake to move a defender towards Moore which opened a hole for Holmes. Holmes made a move that caused the defender to fall and get the YAC. However, if not for Ben's pump fake Holmes would not have been open or even if Ben fit the ball into him he probably would have been tackled immediately.

I don't know how you can decide who did more on the play. I think that's why they call football a "team" game. ;)

[Mister Pittsburgh]

Ben uses the pump fake to get DBs out of position. He is probably the best in the league right now at the pump fake. In the SB against Arizona Ben used the pump fake to move a defender towards Moore which opened a hole for Holmes. Holmes made a move that caused the defender to fall and get the YAC. However, if not for Ben's pump fake Holmes would not have been open or even if Ben fit the ball into him he probably would have been tackled immediately.

I don't know how you can decide who did more on the play. I think that's why they call football a "team" game. ;)

The pump fake didn't open a hole for Holmes. Holmes opened a hole for Holmes by catching the ball and immediately cutting outside while the DB was loading up for a straight on hit.

[Jigawatts]

I think the Super Bowl XLIII MVP was a toss up between Ben and Santonio that came down to the catch. Ben put the ball in the only place he could and Santionio made a beautiful catch. I'm wondering if that play breaks down, Ben avoids a sack and scrambles into the end zone, is he the MVP instead of Holmes?

[Sugar]

Of course, everyone remembers the catch Holmes MADE. Rightfully so. However, he missed an easier but equally well-thrown ball just before it.

[Mister Pittsburgh]

Of course, everyone remembers the catch Holmes MADE. Rightfully so. However, he missed an easier but equally well-thrown ball just before it.

That ball was overthrown. He was leaping through the air and laid out for it.

[Sugar]

That ball was overthrown. He was leaping through the air and laid out for it.

The pass before "the catch?" That was a great throw and should have been an easier catch than the one he actually made.

[feltdizz]

easier? Not sure about that... both were difficult.

[Slapstick]

The pass before "the catch?" That was a great throw and should have been an easier catch than the one he actually made.

I agree. IIRC, both Ben and Santonio agreed as well, at the time...

[8467thekraken]

Holmes definately should have caught that first pass in the back left corner of the end zone. Right through his frickin hands.

But Ben goes right back to him in tripple coverage on the other side.

I don't care much for SB MVP awards and stuff like that. Ben has been to 3 SB's in his career so far.

That's all I need. That alone is ridiculously hard to do. Mannings havent done it. Brady needed cheats to do it. He's with some pretty sweet company in that regard.

[NJ-STEELER]

damn, these videos make me long for the big time receiver we had that comes thru in the clutch

[lloydroid]

When your QB's nickname is "Bonehead Ben" he isn't likely to win too many SBMVPs. Flacco is a well-spoken, never accused of trying to have sex in public bathrooms, or skip out on bar tabs kind of guy.

[Sugar]

When your QB's nickname is "Bonehead Ben" he isn't likely to win too many SBMVPs.

Funny, I've never seen anyone call Ben that but you...

[supersteeler]

Ben + RB + O-LINE = ELITE


Ben played behind a make shift o-line for sometime now because of injuries, Ben is our ticket to 7!

[NJ-STEELER]

When your QB's nickname is "Bonehead Ben" he isn't likely to win too many SBMVPs. Flacco is a well-spoken, never accused of trying to have sex in public bathrooms, or skip out on bar tabs kind of guy.

I'm quoting this for the mods cause I'm not sure where this fits in the discussion.
Just another opportunity from the same guy to bash Ben