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Dee Dub
01-31-2013, 10:46 PM
...in this draft and all it cost you was the #17th overall pick this year and the teams 2nd rounder next year, would you do that? Would want it?

Yes or no?

Si or no si?

BradshawsHairdresser
01-31-2013, 11:10 PM
I don't know, but I'd love it if we could get the players in your mock draft in your sig.

Dee Dub
01-31-2013, 11:49 PM
I don't know, but I'd love it if we could get the players in your mock draft in your sig.

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner. That is exactly what this post is referring too. The Steelers could trade the 17th pick this year and their 2nd round pick next year and move up as high as the 11th overall pick in this years draft. And either Chance Warmack or Eric Fisher will be there. Bank on it. Two QB's will be selected in the top ten who really aren't top ten worthy, but because of the premium on QB's, it will happen. As a result, one of these guys will be there at number 11.

And guess what? They may not really even miss that second round pick all that much. After the free agent exodus this year (Starks, Wallace, Foster, Mendenhall, Hampton, Foote, and maybe even Lewis), the team will end up with 4-6 extra (compensatory picks), next year.

Dee Dub
01-31-2013, 11:53 PM
I don't know, but I'd love it if we could get the players in your mock draft in your sig.

..and also, by trading this years 3rd round pick, the Steelers could move up from their 2nd round pick as high as the #30 overall pick this year. And that is how they can get another plug and play, immediate return player in Kevin Minter. One draft, and two immediate impact players. And with the amount of compensatory picks coming next year, these two trades wont hurt the future of the Steelers or adding depth.

Slapstick
02-01-2013, 07:00 AM
I think that, if a premier pass rusher is available at 17, the Steelers should take him...

steelblood
02-01-2013, 07:59 AM
And guess what? They may not really even miss that second round pick all that much. After the free agent exodus this year (Starks, Wallace, Foster, Mendenhall, Hampton, Foote, and maybe even Lewis), the team will end up with 4-6 extra (compensatory picks), next year.

You can only receive a maximum of 4 compensatory selections in a given draft.


And, yes, I'd trade the #1 and #2 for Fisher, Warmack, or Damontre Moore.

8467thekraken
02-01-2013, 08:39 AM
Not big on trading picks from the top 3 rounds. Or sacrificing future picks of the same magnitude. Especially when we are picking at 17.

The Steelers should be able to get an impact player without giving anything up.

We need picks. By the sound of things, there could be a lot of holes to fill.

phillyesq
02-01-2013, 09:53 AM
It really depends on the impact of the player they get. The Steelers traded up to get Polamalu and that was certainly worth it; I don't think that any of us miss that third round pick. I think the Steelers should be able to find a pass rusher or other impact player at 17 and I would prefer to stay put. If there is somebody they really wanted, I would consider moving up, maybe even a few spots, but there should be value at 17.

Dee Dub
02-01-2013, 10:19 AM
You can only receive a maximum of 4 compensatory selections in a given draft.


And, yes, I'd trade the #1 and #2 for Fisher, Warmack, or Damontre Moore.

I was not aware of that. Thanks steelblood. But still, getting 4 extra picks next year can alleviates the loss of one of two traded picks. And there is a possibly the Steelers get one or two extra picks this year.

Dee Dub
02-01-2013, 10:21 AM
Not big on trading picks from the top 3 rounds. Or sacrificing future picks of the same magnitude. Especially when we are picking at 17.

The Steelers should be able to get an impact player without giving anything up.

We need picks. By the sound of things, there could be a lot of holes to fill.

Why not? It could be the back end of round two next year. And with the extra compensatory picks it makes up for some of that loss. Eric Fischer comes in on day one and stars. Makes the O-line very solid. At 17 I really dont see that happening with any player.

pfelix73
02-01-2013, 10:28 AM
..and also, by trading this years 3rd round pick, the Steelers could move up from their 2nd round pick as high as the #30 overall pick this year. And that is how they can get another plug and play, immediate return player in Kevin Minter. One draft, and two immediate impact players. And with the amount of compensatory picks coming next year, these two trades wont hurt the future of the Steelers or adding depth.

First of all, I just don't think this is realistic. You need other teams willing to trade with you too. I'd either stay put, or consider trading down with the intention of maybe getting a Kevin Minter at the end of the 1st round, IF someone down there has a willingness to move up. Even though your 1st pick in your mock has potential to be a great player, I just don't see the need for another OL in the first few rounds of this year's draft.

Trading down would really only net us an extra 3rd round pick probably, but the extra pick would allow us to fill another hole. WR, RB, etc.

papillon
02-01-2013, 10:31 AM
Why not? It could be the back end of round two next year. And with the extra compensatory picks it makes up for some of that loss. Eric Fischer comes in on day one and stars. Makes the O-line very solid. At 17 I really dont see that happening with any player.

Dub, I understand Fisher is a highly sought after OT in this year's draft, but here's my comments and question to you. The Steelers have drafted over the past few seasons the following players: Maurkice Pouncey, Marcus Gilbert, Michael Adams and David DeCastro all with premium picks (rounds 1 and 2). Is it prudent to add yet another premium pick and give up on a previous pick (Adams or Gilbert). The Steelers have invested heavily in offensive line talent and defensive line talent in the past couple years, IMO, it's time to invest in the players behind the defensive line due to age and contract (Harrison, Taylor, Clark, Polamalu).

It also appears that the Steelers will have what appeared to be a strength of the team become a weakness in the WR corps with the exodus of Wallace, the age of Cotchery, the injuries to Sanders and hopefully, AB becomes what the Steelers believe he would. A WR with a premium pick might not be a bad idea, but WR also seems to be a position that can be filled in later rounds because the college game has evolved into a passing game and the colleges are producing a lot of quality WRs, so maybe you wait on the WR.

OTOH, I'd like to see Minter in Black-and-Gold, but not sure how to go about making that happen, I think he'll be gone by 1.17.

Pappy

steelz09
02-01-2013, 11:28 AM
Dub, I understand Fisher is a highly sought after OT in this year's draft, but here's my comments and question to you. The Steelers have drafted over the past few seasons the following players: Maurkice Pouncey, Marcus Gilbert, Michael Adams and David DeCastro all with premium picks (rounds 1 and 2). Is it prudent to add yet another premium pick and give up on a previous pick (Adams or Gilbert). The Steelers have invested heavily in offensive line talent and defensive line talent in the past couple years, IMO, it's time to invest in the players behind the defensive line due to age and contract (Harrison, Taylor, Clark, Polamalu).

It also appears that the Steelers will have what appeared to be a strength of the team become a weakness in the WR corps with the exodus of Wallace, the age of Cotchery, the injuries to Sanders and hopefully, AB becomes what the Steelers believe he would. A WR with a premium pick might not be a bad idea, but WR also seems to be a position that can be filled in later rounds because the college game has evolved into a passing game and the colleges are producing a lot of quality WRs, so maybe you wait on the WR.

OTOH, I'd like to see Minter in Black-and-Gold, but not sure how to go about making that happen, I think he'll be gone by 1.17.

Pappy

I completely agree. People seem to think we've neglected the o-line. Like you said, the Steelers recently invested a lot of premium picks on our o-line. If we draft another o-lineman in the 1st round... let's say Warmack, our o-line would be:

LT: Gilbert (2nd rounder)
LG: Warmack (1st rounder)
C: Pouncey (1st rounder)
RG: DeCastro (1st rounder)
RT: Adams (2nd rounder)

Our linebackers (assuming Foote is back and starting) is:

Timmons (1st rounder)
Foote (4th rounder)
Woodley (2nd rounder)
Harrison (UDFA), Worilds (2nd rounder)

We really a starting ILB. Foote is a stop gap player with minimal impact and slim to non playmaking ability.

We need safeties and we need CB depth.

If we were to choose an offensive position in the 1st round, my #1 choice would be Hopkins from Clemson.

The d-line has two 1st rounders. That hasn't been neglected either. I wish the Steelers would have drafted a 1st round NT and a 1st round DE instead of two first round DEs.

Slapstick
02-01-2013, 12:39 PM
The d-line has two 1st rounders. That hasn't been neglected either. I wish the Steelers would have drafted a 1st round NT and a 1st round DE instead of two first round DEs.

Ziggy Hood may yet end up being the first round NT...

Dee Dub
02-01-2013, 01:04 PM
Ziggy Hood may yet end up being the first round NT...

At pick number 17 this year.....you can get an impact player but I do not believe an "immediate impact" player. Maybe, just maybe, Kevin Minter...but do you want to use the 17th pick on a player you probably could get at pick 28,29, or 30?

And I disagree about the difficulty of finding a trade partner. A team like San Diego has a lot of needs and a new general manager.

Here is the latest GBNREPORT.com 3 round mock that shows Eric Fischer going at pick #11 to San Diego.

http://gbnreport.com/2013projection.html



10

Tennessee
Chance Warmack

OG

Alabama



11

San Diego
Eric Fisher

OT

Central Michigan

Sugar
02-01-2013, 01:08 PM
It would be good to get a Jarvis Jones. From what I've read, he could be a fantastic impact player for the Steelers. The last thing I would want is yet another OL guy in the first three rounds. I could see getting a TE, but with the teams needs I don't see OL being the place to invest at this point.

Dee Dub
02-01-2013, 01:15 PM
I completely agree. People seem to think we've neglected the o-line. Like you said, the Steelers recently invested a lot of premium picks on our o-line. If we draft another o-lineman in the 1st round... let's say Warmack, our o-line would be:

LT: Gilbert (2nd rounder)
LG: Warmack (1st rounder)
C: Pouncey (1st rounder)
RG: DeCastro (1st rounder)
RT: Adams (2nd rounder)

I personally like this better..

LT: Fischer (1st rounder)
LG: Beachum (7th rounder)
C: Pouncey (1st rounder)
RG: DeCastro (1st rounder)
RT: Adams (2nd rounder) and Gilbert (2nd rounder), battle it out in camp.




Our linebackers (assuming Foote is back and starting) is:

Timmons (1st rounder)
Foote (4th rounder)
Woodley (2nd rounder)
Harrison (UDFA), Worilds (2nd rounder)

We really a starting ILB. Foote is a stop gap player with minimal impact and slim to non playmaking ability.

Trade your 3rd round pick this year and it moves you up to the 30th overall pick in this draft and you select Kevin Minter.




We need safeties and we need CB depth.

If we were to choose an offensive position in the 1st round, my #1 choice would be Hopkins from Clemson.

The d-line has two 1st rounders. That hasn't been neglected either. I wish the Steelers would have drafted a 1st round NT and a 1st round DE instead of two first round DEs.

I would rather this team get two immediate impact players than to worry about depth, but n knowing this team may have a total of 18-19 picks between the next two years should play a role in getting depth.

Dee Dub
02-01-2013, 01:16 PM
It would be good to get a Jarvis Jones. From what I've read, he could be a fantastic impact player for the Steelers. The last thing I would want is yet another OL guy in the first three rounds. I could see getting a TE, but with the teams needs I don't see OL being the place to invest at this point.

Never gonna happen. He is a top 3 pick if not the number 1 overall pick.

Sugar
02-01-2013, 01:18 PM
Never gonna happen. He is a top 3 pick if not the number 1 overall pick.

I thought this was an "If you could..." thread and not necessarily based on reality.

Dee Dub
02-01-2013, 01:19 PM
OTOH, I'd like to see Minter in Black-and-Gold, but not sure how to go about making that happen, I think he'll be gone by 1.17.

Pappy

I dont see that. I believe he goes from 25-32. As much as I love him he plays ILB which isnt a premium position in the NFL, plus there are two other ILB who may go before him (Ogletree and Te'o), and there are just too many splash players ahead of him in this draft.

phillyesq
02-01-2013, 01:49 PM
I personally like this better..

LT: Fischer (1st rounder)
LG: Beachum (7th rounder)
C: Pouncey (1st rounder)
RG: DeCastro (1st rounder)
RT: Adams (2nd rounder) and Gilbert (2nd rounder), battle it out in camp.



I don't like any starting lineup that includes Beachum. I would rather see the Steelers address the offensive line in the middle rounds this year. If they are going to go into a season with Beachum/Legursky as the best options at OG, something has gone terribly wrong. A mid round guard (if Foster/Colon don't return) and a mid round OT as depth behind Gilbert/Adams suits my preferences more.

BigRob
02-01-2013, 01:53 PM
Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner. That is exactly what this post is referring too. The Steelers could trade the 17th pick this year and their 2nd round pick next year and move up as high as the 11th overall pick in this years draft. And either Chance Warmack or Eric Fisher will be there. Bank on it. Two QB's will be selected in the top ten who really aren't top ten worthy, but because of the premium on QB's, it will happen. As a result, one of these guys will be there at number 11.

And guess what? They may not really even miss that second round pick all that much. After the free agent exodus this year (Starks, Wallace, Foster, Mendenhall, Hampton, Foote, and maybe even Lewis), the team will end up with 4-6 extra (compensatory picks), next year.

Your delusional about Fisher if you think he will be there at 11. Fisher is a legit left tackle and will be gone in the first 8 picks. Left Tackle is the next premium position after QB. There are no top ten locks at QB. Fisher can play left tackle day one and will be loong gone.


I'm not trading a 2nd round pick next year for Chance Warmack when he has a good shot at being there in the 15 to 20 range.

A. He's a pure guard and like Decastro, will drop further than people think.

B. This is one of the deepest guard drafts in a long time. You can get an impact guard to start in the 2nd or 3rd rd. Ala Ben Grubbs when he was selected by the Ravens or the guard from the Falcons that went that same year.

C. There will be an impact player available at 17. I have heard scouts and a lot of G.M.'s say this is a good year to be outside of the top 10.

phillyesq
02-01-2013, 02:14 PM
I have heard scouts and a lot of G.M.'s say this is a good year to be outside of the top 10.

From what I've seen so far, this seems to be the case. There don't look to be elite QBs or other guys that seem to be as sure fire in the top 10 compared to many years, but there seems to be a number of guys who are good value at 17.

Dee Dub
02-01-2013, 03:14 PM
Your delusional about Fisher if you think he will be there at 11. Fisher is a legit left tackle and will be gone in the first 8 picks. Left Tackle is the next premium position after QB. There are no top ten locks at QB. Fisher can play left tackle day one and will be loong gone.


I'm not trading a 2nd round pick next year for Chance Warmack when he has a good shot at being there in the 15 to 20 range.

A. He's a pure guard and like Decastro, will drop further than people think.

B. This is one of the deepest guard drafts in a long time. You can get an impact guard to start in the 2nd or 3rd rd. Ala Ben Grubbs when he was selected by the Ravens or the guard from the Falcons that went that same year.

C. There will be an impact player available at 17. I have heard scouts and a lot of G.M.'s say this is a good year to be outside of the top 10.

Nope! Geno Smith, Matt Barkley, and maybe even Mike Glennon are going to bump him. Mark my words. QB is even more of a premium position than LT. Teams will reach on QB's because of the importance of the position. Happens every year. ;)

Dee Dub
02-01-2013, 03:15 PM
I don't like any starting lineup that includes Beachum. I would rather see the Steelers address the offensive line in the middle rounds this year. If they are going to go into a season with Beachum/Legursky as the best options at OG, something has gone terribly wrong. A mid round guard (if Foster/Colon don't return) and a mid round OT as depth behind Gilbert/Adams suits my preferences more.

Well the Steelers feel differently. They believe Beachum he can play the position and I trust them. And if he has Fischer to his left and Pouncey to his right he has half a chance.

Dee Dub
02-01-2013, 03:25 PM
I thought this was an "If you could..." thread and not necessarily based on reality.

But the Steelers can't trade up that far (top 3), without having to give up half their draft picks. Trading a second rounder next year that could be the 60-64th pick in the draft is very realistic. The #64 pick is worth 270 points. The #17 pick is worth 950. That is 1220. Right there at the 11th overall pick in this draft. And realistically we should be able to get more value than the 64th overall pick next year since this team is coming off an 8-8 season. Quite possibly could be able to move up as high as pick 8.

phillyesq
02-01-2013, 03:38 PM
Well the Steelers feel differently. They believe Beachum he can play the position and I trust them. And if he has Fischer to his left and Pouncey to his right he has half a chance.

I think they also feel differently about Gilbert/Adams than most on this board. I think they'll give the two second round picks a chance to start.

Dee Dub
02-01-2013, 03:48 PM
I think they also feel differently about Gilbert/Adams than most on this board. I think they'll give the two second round picks a chance to start.

I think you are probably right but neither of them will ever be in the class that Fisher is. And the Steelers brass know this...and they may be thinking differently after what they saw in Mobile, Al. And you gotta believe that the thought of whether or not Marcus Gilbert can ever be healthy has to be running through their mind.

feltdizz
02-01-2013, 04:42 PM
I think they also feel differently about Gilbert/Adams than most on this board. I think they'll give the two second round picks a chance to start.

Adams yes... but I wonder if those rumors about Gilbert disappearing were true... something about that dude doesn't sit well with me. I don't think he will ever reach his potential and I don't think he really wants to be out there for 60 minutes every week.

feltdizz
02-01-2013, 04:45 PM
Nope! Geno Smith, Matt Barkley, and maybe even Mike Glennon are going to bump him. Mark my words. QB is even more of a premium position than LT. Teams will reach on QB's because of the importance of the position. Happens every year. ;)

Nah.. I would be very surprised if all 3 bumped him down to 11.

RuthlessBurgher
02-01-2013, 05:10 PM
And I disagree about the difficulty of finding a trade partner. A team like San Diego has a lot of needs and a new general manager.

San Diego's biggest weakness is OL (specifically LT). They cannot count on the injury prone Jared Gaither anymore. If Eric Fisher were on the board at 11, the Chargers would have already made that pick within 2 seconds before we even had a chance to call them with a trade offer.

Oviedo
02-01-2013, 05:33 PM
Your delusional about Fisher if you think he will be there at 11. Fisher is a legit left tackle and will be gone in the first 8 picks. Left Tackle is the next premium position after QB. There are no top ten locks at QB. Fisher can play left tackle day one and will be loong gone.


I'm not trading a 2nd round pick next year for Chance Warmack when he has a good shot at being there in the 15 to 20 range.

A. He's a pure guard and like Decastro, will drop further than people think.

B. This is one of the deepest guard drafts in a long time. You can get an impact guard to start in the 2nd or 3rd rd. Ala Ben Grubbs when he was selected by the Ravens or the guard from the Falcons that went that same year.

C. There will be an impact player available at 17. I have heard scouts and a lot of G.M.'s say this is a good year to be outside of the top 10.

Define "IMPACT Player."

BigRob
02-01-2013, 05:44 PM
Nope! Geno Smith, Matt Barkley, and maybe even Mike Glennon are going to bump him. Mark my words. QB is even more of a premium position than LT. Teams will reach on QB's because of the importance of the position. Happens every year. ;)

Not when the QB's are these guys. 2 Qb's might go in the top ten if they are lucky. This year is more like 2005 then 2012.

Here is the draft order:



Kansas City (2-14)
Jacksonville (2-14)
Oakland (4-12)
Philadelphia (4-12)
Detroit (4-12)
Cleveland (5-11)
Arizona (5-11)
Buffalo (6-10)
New York Jets (6-10)
Tennessee (6-10)
San Diego (7-9)


You can make a case that every team in the top 11 needs a LT desperately except for the Jets, Cleveland, and Buffalo. That leaves eight teams he could go to in the top 10.

KC, AZ, and NYJ are the teams that need a QB like yesterday. AZ isn't picking one because the Bidwells still want Kolb to work out.

Likely landing spots for Fisher could be: Oakland, Jacksonville, Philadelphia, Detroit, Arizona, Tennessee, and San Diego.

San Diego in particular has an atrocious LT situation. You think they are just going to give-up Fisher for a 2nd round pick? Puh lease. You are California Dreamin and don't even know it.

BigRob
02-01-2013, 05:58 PM
Define "IMPACT Player."

A player that will get significant playing time either in rotation or starting by the end of the year. Add production to this as well.

Dee Dub
02-01-2013, 07:03 PM
San Diego's biggest weakness is OL (specifically LT). They cannot count on the injury prone Jared Gaither anymore. If Eric Fisher were on the board at 11, the Chargers would have already made that pick within 2 seconds before we even had a chance to call them with a trade offer.

They may not. They may rather get Lance Johnson LT at 17 and add a pick. But again, there is a very good chance the Steelers could actually get up as high as the 8th overall pick by trading next years 2nd rounder. This is an 8-8 team and in the eyes of most in the NFL they are not a strong candidate to be picking at the back end of round 1 next year. Especially after the purging of the roster that is about to take place.

Dee Dub
02-01-2013, 07:05 PM
Define "IMPACT Player."

Forget impact players. What I am talking about is "immediate impact" players. I do not see anyone at 17 expect maybe Kevin Minter who should be taken between 25-32 not 17. And if Rob is trying to tell there is, chances are he's lying to you. ;)

Dee Dub
02-01-2013, 07:07 PM
A player that will get significant playing time either in rotation or starting by the end of the year. Add production to this as well.

We have different idea of what an impact player is. If he is a rotation guy he more than likely int making an impact. A contribution?....yes, but not an impact. See Jason Worilds last year. Decent contribution but hardly an impact.

Dee Dub
02-01-2013, 07:25 PM
Kansas City (2-14)
Jacksonville (2-14)
Oakland (4-12)
Philadelphia (4-12)
Detroit (4-12)
Cleveland (5-11)
Arizona (5-11)
Buffalo (6-10)
New York Jets (6-10)
Tennessee (6-10)
San Diego (7-9)



Of these teams, Kansas City, Oakland, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Arizona, and Buffalo all need a QB's.

BigRob
02-01-2013, 08:06 PM
But again, there is a very good chance the Steelers could actually get up as high as the 8th overall pick by trading next years 2nd rounder. This is an 8-8 team and in the eyes of most in the NFL they are not a strong candidate to be picking at the back end of round 1 next year. Especially after the purging of the roster that is about to take place.

It would take more then next years 2nd rounder to trade up to 8th. Next years pick is worth a round lower this year.


They may not. They may rather get Lance Johnson LT at 17 and add a pick.

Hate to tell you, teams aren't going to give up a franchise LT to protect Rivers (A major problem this year). If Fisher was to be available at 11, SD would want way more than a 2nd rounder next year to give him up to the Steelers.

However, if the Steelers can trade up to grab a player they absolutely view as BPA and an areas of need, I'm all for it.

Dee Dub
02-01-2013, 08:43 PM
It would take more then next years 2nd rounder to trade up to 8th. Next years pick is worth a round lower this year.

Not true. It doesn't lose it's value. It worth just as much this year as it will be next year.

http://gbnreport.com/tradevaluetable.html

Dee Dub
02-01-2013, 09:31 PM
Two more so called experts having Fisher go at pick number 11. And both having Geno Smith and Matt Barkley going ahead of Fisher. Hmmmmm?

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock

BigRob
02-02-2013, 03:48 AM
Two more so called experts having Fisher go at pick number 11. And both having Geno Smith and Matt Barkley going ahead of Fisher. Hmmmmm?

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock

Geesh dude, your insane....and wrong if you don't think Fisher is going top ten. True Left Tackles are almost as rare as QB's and there are two of them this year. Fisher and Joeckle.

BradshawsHairdresser
02-02-2013, 10:43 AM
Geesh dude, your insane....and wrong if you don't think Fisher is going top ten.

He probably will, but you never know...I hope the Steelers are prepared to make a move just in case.

Dee Dub
02-02-2013, 05:01 PM
Geesh dude, your insane....and wrong if you don't think Fisher is going top ten. True Left Tackles are almost as rare as QB's and there are two of them this year. Fisher and Joeckle.

Please read what you just said. Focus on the key words..."almost as rare as QB's". Mark it down. Two QB's who aren't ranked in the top 10 right now are going to picked before Fischer. Thus moving him down to a reachable position.

And just a week and a half a go you were saying, as most are (including myself) , that Lance Johnson is a true LT. This is going to have some willing to move back.

BigRob
02-02-2013, 07:18 PM
Please read what you just said. Focus on the key words..."almost as rare as QB's". Mark it down. Two QB's who aren't ranked in the top 10 right now are going to picked before Fischer. Thus moving him down to a reachable position.

And just a week and a half a go you were saying, as most are (including myself) , that Lance Johnson is a true LT. This is going to have some willing to move back.

Willing to move back to draft a guy who has played Left Tackle all of three years after moving from the QB position in Junior College? If they want a left tackle and Fisher is available, they will take him over Johnson every time.

Johnson has a lot of potential, but he is not ready to step in and play LT like Fisher day one.

I'll bump this thread when your wrong about two QB's being picked before Fisher. This is a weak QB class and teams know it.

pfelix73
02-02-2013, 10:43 PM
"This is a weak QB class and teams know it." Because of this, it could make some teams think about taking one or both of those QB's way ahead of where they should go. Examples- Ponder to Minn. 2 yrs ago, and the dude Miami took last year--- told ya'll I am terrible with names...

Dee Dub
02-03-2013, 04:39 PM
"This is a weak QB class and teams know it." Because of this, it could make some teams think about taking one or both of those QB's way ahead of where they should go. Examples- Ponder to Minn. 2 yrs ago, and the dude Miami took last year--- told ya'll I am terrible with names...

Yep!! This is exactly why Geno Smith and Matt Barkley (and maybe even Mike Glennon), will get snatched up in the first 10 picks.

feltdizz
02-03-2013, 06:44 PM
I heard the QB from Syracuse in a few mocks... i dont believe he is worthy but you never know.

Shoe
02-04-2013, 01:51 AM
As was said, you can't blow another high pick at O-line. We are married to Mike Adams and Gilbert, like it or not (and I don't). We need playmakers on D... that's the #1 goal.

I keep hearing this name, Warmack Warmack Warmack. It's funny that Steeler fans are really considering this guy, when we already spent picks on Pouncey and DeCastro in the interior line. Now... unless Warmack can also play Tackle at a high level--I just don't get why this guy's name is getting thrown around here so much!

Oviedo
02-04-2013, 08:48 AM
As was said, you can't blow another high pick at O-line. We are married to Mike Adams and Gilbert, like it or not (and I don't). We need playmakers on D... that's the #1 goal.

I keep hearing this name, Warmack Warmack Warmack. It's funny that Steeler fans are really considering this guy, when we already spent picks on Pouncey and DeCastro in the interior line. Now... unless Warmack can also play Tackle at a high level--I just don't get why this guy's name is getting thrown around here so much!

You hear the name because our OL is responsible for protecting the most valuable asset on the team and it isn't good enough to do that yet. Offense is more important than defense in the NFL now.

Why would you want to use a #1 pick on a supposed "defensive playmaker" who will stand on the sideline and watch for one to two seasons? Draft Warmack and he is in the starting lineup Game #1!

supersteeler
02-04-2013, 09:05 AM
As Ovi stated he could make an immediate impact and solidify our O-line.
Just look at the Ravens how their O-line played against one of the best front seven's in football, Flacco was sacked only once and had the time to make plays.
I don't care how many O-linemen we drafted. if you have a chance to get the next Alan Fanaca that would be hard to turn down, but knowing the Steelers that's probably what they will do, and draft another position.

Ask yourself this. Lets say Ansa & Womack is there when we pick who would you choose?
Immediate impact? Womack all day!

Slapstick
02-04-2013, 10:20 AM
If Womack doesn't fit the new scheme, it's a wasted pick...

feltdizz
02-04-2013, 10:23 AM
As Ovi stated he could make an immediate impact and solidify our O-line.
Just look at the Ravens how their O-line played against one of the best front seven's in football, Flacco was sacked only once and had the time to make plays.
I don't care how many O-linemen we drafted. if you have a chance to get the next Alan Fanaca that would be hard to turn down, but knowing the Steelers that's probably what they will do, and draft another position.

Ask yourself this. Lets say Ansa & Womack is there when we pick who would you choose?
Immediate impact? Womack all day!

Flacco was sacked once because he moved around, checked down and he has some big WR's.

supersteeler
02-04-2013, 10:29 AM
If Womack doesn't fit the new scheme, it's a wasted pick...

I don't care what scheme we are running, our run game is putrid, he'll road grade for the backs plus he can pass block pretty damn good.

Slapstick
02-04-2013, 11:05 AM
I don't care what scheme we are running, our run game is putrid, he'll road grade for the backs plus he can pass block pretty damn good.

I understand that you don't care. But, the coaches probably do. That being the case, if he doesn't fit, it's a wasted pick...

Shoe
02-04-2013, 11:31 AM
You hear the name because our OL is responsible for protecting the most valuable asset on the team and it isn't good enough to do that yet. Offense is more important than defense in the NFL now.

Why would you want to use a #1 pick on a supposed "defensive playmaker" who will stand on the sideline and watch for one to two seasons? Draft Warmack and he is in the starting lineup Game #1!

If it is not good enough with two #1's (one of which is already perennial All-Pro), and two #2's spent in the last three years, then what was the point of spending all those picks on those guys? If we do end up picking Warmack, I doubt anyone could cite a team who has ever invested as heavily in a unit as we would have, just in the interior o-line (i.e. three first-round picks?).

OTOH, a guy who could step right in and bring energy, and recklessness (i.e. the way Polamalu used to) to a unit STARVING for it at this point, would help the team much more than one more stud lineman. A guy like Te'o (not Te'o, but a guy with his on-field track record), a guy like Honey Badger (maybe not him, but on-the-field wherever the guy was, the ball would pop out). That's what we need.

Oviedo
02-04-2013, 12:53 PM
If it is not good enough with two #1's (one of which is already perennial All-Pro), and two #2's spent in the last three years, then what was the point of spending all those picks on those guys? If we do end up picking Warmack, I doubt anyone could cite a team who has ever invested as heavily in a unit as we would have, just in the interior o-line (i.e. three first-round picks?).

OTOH, a guy who could step right in and bring energy, and recklessness (i.e. the way Polamalu used to) to a unit STARVING for it at this point, would help the team much more than one more stud lineman. A guy like Te'o (not Te'o, but a guy with his on-field track record), a guy like Honey Badger (maybe not him, but on-the-field wherever the guy was, the ball would pop out). That's what we need.


Can't bring "and recklessness (i.e. the way Polamalu used to) to a unit STARVING for it at this point" when you are4 standing on the sideline watching because you have not mastered the defense according to the "professor." Troy wasn't allowed to play so what makes you think LeBeau will start another rookie to get playmaking capabilities imeediately? He won't! There is zero indication in his history that he would do this.

Oviedo
02-04-2013, 12:59 PM
If Womack doesn't fit the new scheme, it's a wasted pick...

What is the new "scheme" he can't fit into? We aren't talking about a defensive player who the Coordinator requires two years of training to fit into "his scheme."

Slapstick
02-04-2013, 01:03 PM
What is the new "scheme" he can't fit into? We aren't talking about a defensive player who the Coordinator requires two years of training to fit into "his scheme."

Blocking schemes....

If the new OL coach wants to use more athletic linemen, they may decide that a road grader like Womack wouldn't fit... s

It's not rocket surgery...

Slapstick
02-04-2013, 01:05 PM
I understand that some people com plain about getting plaers acclimated to the defensive system...the Steelers can take the luxury of time because, for the most part, they haven sucked...teams that suck require players who make immediate impacts...

Now that the Steelers finished 8-8, the door may open to do that...

BigRob
02-04-2013, 02:04 PM
"This is a weak QB class and teams know it." Because of this, it could make some teams think about taking one or both of those QB's way ahead of where they should go. Examples- Ponder to Minn. 2 yrs ago, and the dude Miami took last year--- told ya'll I am terrible with names...

Hmmm.....I would remind you that Ponder didn't go top 10.

I also would like to ask you why you think two QB's going in the top ten would prevent two Franchise Left Tackles from going in the top ten? We've already looked at these teams and there is only one team that would benefit from not taking a Left Tackle. That is Cleveland because they have Schwartz and Thomas.

Every other team needs a left tackle still or another great tackle. Teams will not let someone this good slip through the top ten. They will also entertain a trade up into the top ten.

Your not getting Fisher at pick 11.

Oviedo
02-04-2013, 02:14 PM
Blocking schemes....

If the new OL coach wants to use more athletic linemen, they may decide that a road grader like Womack wouldn't fit... s

It's not rocket surgery...

And you know what scheme the new OL coach wants and whether Warmack is athletic enough or not? Every game I've seen him play he has demonstrated outstanding athleticism in getting to the second level and blowing up LBs. Just ask Manti T'eo!

Warmack is not Willie Colon, Ramon Foster or Kemo. He appears to be much more athletic for a man his size.

BigRob
02-04-2013, 02:22 PM
Blocking schemes....

If the new OL coach wants to use more athletic linemen, they may decide that a road grader like Womack wouldn't fit... s

It's not rocket surgery...

Have you watched Warmack? He gets to the second level of a defense unlike any other guard in College right now and a fair amount of the pros. He might be big, but he is very mobile along with his power.

Size doesn't always diminish athleticism. He's not Foster and Colon by any stretch. He might just be Larry Allen part deaux.

BigRob
02-04-2013, 02:23 PM
And you know what scheme the new OL coach wants and whether Warmack is athletic enough or not? Every game I've seen him play he has demonstrated outstanding athleticism in getting to the second level and blowing up LBs. Just ask Manti T'eo!

Warmack is not Willie Colon, Ramon Foster or Kemo. He appears to be much more athletic for a man his size.

Heh heh, just saw your reply Ovi, sorry for repeating.

Oviedo
02-04-2013, 02:24 PM
Have you watched Warmack? He gets to the second level of a defense unlike any other guard in College right now and a fair amount of the pros. He might be big, but he is very mobile along with his power.

Size doesn't always diminish athleticism. He's not Foster and Colon by any stretch. He might just be Larry Allen part deaux.

$$$$ Why would anyone want to pass on "the next Larry Allen" for a player to stand on the sidelines and watch for at least a year.

The reality is that Warmack is probably better than DeCastro. That would be a great problem to have going forward.

Slapstick
02-04-2013, 02:32 PM
You are confusing what you believe to be my personal opinion to what I believe to be the coaches' evaluation...

supersteeler
02-04-2013, 02:53 PM
You are confusing what you believe to be my personal opinion to what I believe to be the coaches' evaluation...



Our personal opinions don't matter much, but when professionals see what our issues are in the offense it has some credence.
As for the coaches, they are not always right in their evaluation and neither is Colbert.

We seen this offense struggle for too long now, and it needs fixed or you can forget about us competing for a championship. Any offense is only as strong as the 5 players up front, when that's fixed all else will fall into place.
With Warmack, Beachum could be a good back-up along with legs a a swing man that way we have a little depth especially if we lose Starks,Colon, and Foster.



The thread was about an immediate impact player not a specific position, Warmack is the best guard in the draft the last two years and might be better than DeCastro so if you want immediate... Warmack fits the bill.


Btw, If you want an example of what a good O-line can accomplish see Johnathan Ogden and company when they protected Trent Dilfer in winning a Super Bowl. If the Steelers give Ben a quality line it would make a world of difference. That line not only protected an average QB it paved the waY FOR Jammal Lewis to run wild on opposing defenses.

BigRob
02-04-2013, 03:06 PM
You are confusing what you believe to be my personal opinion to what I believe to be the coaches' evaluation...

What coaches evaluation? Are you saying you know the Steelers FO evaluation of Warmack already? Wow.

Slapstick
02-04-2013, 03:24 PM
What coaches evaluation? Are you saying you know the Steelers FO evaluation of Warmack already? Wow.

Good Lord...some of my fellow posters need to stop putting words in my mouth...

I simply said this:


If Womack doesn't fit the new scheme, it's a wasted pick...

The point is, NONE of us know what the coaches' evaluation is...

BigRob
02-04-2013, 07:28 PM
You are confusing what you believe to be my personal opinion to what I believe to be the coaches' evaluation...

No confusion, I understand you have no factual information to back up what you believe the coaches are evaluating. It's laughable.

Slapstick
02-04-2013, 07:39 PM
No confusion, I understand you have no factual information to back up what you believe the coaches are evaluating. It's laughable.

Yes. Because MY conjecture is so out of place among all of the other conjecture on this message board...

That is the laughable thought...