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View Full Version : How much better are the Ravens than Pgh?



lloydroid
01-30-2013, 06:31 PM
Consider:

- We went 1-1 against them.
- We barely lost to them with a back up QB who literally could not throw.
- We beat them with a 38-year-old, 3rd-string QB.

That being said, at the time we played them, both times, they were in a slump. Didn't they lose like 4 out of 5 in that stretch? They lost to Wash (play off team), Denver (play off team) and Cinci (play off team).

I think, when it comes down to it, Ray Lewis' retirement announcement did what it was designed to do: It inspired them to really give lights out effort. Keisel said he thinks it was similar to the 2005 season with the team playing for Bettis.

Bottom line: Balt. and Pgh's D are pretty equal. Their receivers were a tad better than Pgh's this year (with Wallace's lack of effort and bad attitude spoiling the team) and they definitely had a better rushing game, with Ray Rice and their OL being better than anything we could field. (Balt. 11th over all in rushing with a 4.3 apc and Pgh being 26th, 3.7 apc - LAME).

Right now, Flacco is playing better then Ben did at season's end, no doubt. But over all, I'd say the QB spot is about even.

However, even though it seems we aren't that far from being as good as Balt. our team is going to have a lot more losses with our players than they will. It seems likely that we will be looking up to them next year.

SidSmythe
01-30-2013, 06:48 PM
There is a fine line for this stuff in the NFL.
the Ravens were looking pretty average mid season and then started hitting stride toward the end just in time.
I think the team has stepped up at the time we stepped down.
They also overcame some big injuries and Flacco is playing well.
They're better but not by much.

BradshawsHairdresser
01-30-2013, 07:21 PM
Ravens are in the Super Bowl...Steelers are at home watching. 'Nuff said.

NW Steeler
01-30-2013, 07:45 PM
What he ^^ said. But, I agree that talent-wise the teams are close, and that bears out in the head to head games. They had the mojo this year, we didnt.

NorthCoast
01-30-2013, 08:05 PM
If you take the time to go back and look, the Ravens entire post-season came down to just a few plays during the season. If SD can figure out how to stop a RB on 4th & 29, if Dallas could figure out how to kick of field goal at the buzzer, if KC can figure out how to stop a 3rd & 15...

I know, a lot of 'ifs', but the Ravens games were very much like the Steelers... many coming down to just a few clutch plays. The more you look, the more you would agree that at clutch time THIS SEASON, Flacco>Ben.

Steel Life
01-30-2013, 11:04 PM
If you take the time to go back and look, the Ravens entire post-season came down to just a few plays during the season. If SD can figure out how to stop a RB on 4th & 29, if Dallas could figure out how to kick of field goal at the buzzer, if KC can figure out how to stop a 3rd & 15...


I know, a lot of 'ifs', but the Ravens games were very much like the Steelers... many coming down to just a few clutch plays. The more you look, the more you would agree that at clutch time THIS SEASON, Flacco>Ben.
Agree with the first part of your answer, not so much with the second. The bounces didn't go our way this year while they certainly did for the Ravens. As for your comparison of the QBs...I couldn't disagree more - Flacco is not better than Ben except for staying injury-free. What he is, is that he's the streakiest QB in the league as evidenced by both his good play in the post-season & the fact he was at the helm during a late-season swoon that almost had the Ravens miss the playoffs. That doesn't even take into account that Flacco put up four of the worst QB ratings this season - hardly elite, but he's in the big game & the media will be eager to crown him elite if they win. Also, don't discount the fact that Flacco benefits from having Ray Rice which forces defenses to play honest - what did the Steelers have this year in that department? Lastly, despite how the season ended, remember that Ben was being hailed as a MVP candidate whereas Flacco is second-fiddle on his own team to the aforementioned Rice.

Slapstick
01-31-2013, 07:15 AM
The Ravens are just more fortunate this year...

supersteeler
01-31-2013, 08:09 AM
On paper you could say both teams are close, but we lost to Tenn, Oakland,San Diego, Cleveland, struggled against KC. We lost 5 of eight by three points but good teams find a way to win those close games and we didn't.
We are what the record says, an 8-8 team, the Ravens are 13-6 as of now.

I would say they are much better. They are superior in the run game, their O-line is better, and this year their receiver corps outplayed ours.
On defense I would say their Defensive line is better so if you put it all together the reality is they are the superior team THIS year.
They defeated three top QB's in the game, Luck, Manning, Brady against all odds, so there is no doubt who the better team is between us and them.

I'm not going to sugarcoat the difference in these teams. They made it to the AFC title game two years in a row, thats not luck, thats a good team. Just look back to the first game of the 2011 season when they dominated the game on both sides of the ball in Baltimore, then came here playing a stronger Steelers team that year and found a way to win at the end.

Oviedo
01-31-2013, 09:02 AM
Look at it by position:

QB-Steelers
RB-Ravens
OL-Ravens
WR-Even
TE-Steelers

DL-Ravens
LB-Even
DB-Even

Special Teams-Ravens

Right now I would say the Ravens are better which is why they are in the Super Bowl

feltdizz
01-31-2013, 09:30 AM
Ravens are better... we match up well with the Ravens but they are slightly better than we are. When you look closely at the Ravens, they were extremely lucky or made the key play to extend their run while we found ways to shoot ourselves in the foot.

vs KC: They should have lost this game. Worst call I've every seen on a pick play where the DB blew up the WR and still got the call which brought back a TD.
vs SD: 4 and freaking 29... and they throw short and convert. We looked like azzz vs SD AT HOME.
vs Colts: Ray Rice has 2 huge fumbles... so they plug in the rookie RB and he gains 100 yards. Impressive.
vs Denver: The ST's give up 2 TD's.. Ravens are done. Miracle 72 yard bomb by Flacco. It's their year.
vs Pats: Completely destroyed them in the 2nd half on their field and Flacco outplays Brady for the second year in a row.

The Ravens look like we used to look a few years ago I just think they beat us when it comes to replacing vets.

squidkid
01-31-2013, 11:26 AM
they also have a superior HC

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
01-31-2013, 11:31 AM
Talent wise...Very close.

Ravens are a mentally tougher team.
Ravens are a better coached team.

That is the difference between watching the game on TV and playing in it.

phillyesq
01-31-2013, 12:24 PM
The Ravens are absolutely better right now, no doubt. They are also a hot team at the moment, and while you can't quantify that, it means something.

I hate to say it, but right now, they are a more physical team than the Steelers. When they hit a rut this year, you could see that the Ravens had their flaws, but the Steelers need to improve to reach their level.

Eich
01-31-2013, 01:20 PM
I think the only thing the Ravens were better at this year is putting it all together when it mattered most. Otherwise, we're pretty even with them.

If Ben doesn't go down with injury and our O just stays the same as they were in the 1st half of the season and the D improves like they did in the 2nd half, we could VERY EASILY have won the division over the Rats.

Sometimes things just come together and a team comes together for a special cause - like it did for us in 2005 - like it is now for the Rats. I hope the Rats story doesn't end as sweet as ours did.

This season for the Rats is very, very reminiscent of how it was for us in 2005.

lloydroid
01-31-2013, 04:37 PM
There is a fine line for this stuff in the NFL.
the Ravens were looking pretty average mid season and then started hitting stride toward the end just in time.
I think the team has stepped up at the time we stepped down.
They also overcame some big injuries and Flacco is playing well.
They're better but not by much.

There is a fine line, without question. It's all about getting hot at the right time like we did in 2005 and 2008, but we did the opposite this year, while Balt. got hot right when they needed to.

lloydroid
01-31-2013, 04:39 PM
Ravens are in the Super Bowl...Steelers are at home watching. 'Nuff said.

That wasn't the point; the point was to what degree is Balt. better. And that is relevant in determining how far we have to climb in order to beat them. MORE said.

lloydroid
01-31-2013, 04:42 PM
If you take the time to go back and look, the Ravens entire post-season came down to just a few plays during the season. If SD can figure out how to stop a RB on 4th & 29, if Dallas could figure out how to kick of field goal at the buzzer, if KC can figure out how to stop a 3rd & 15...

I know, a lot of 'ifs', but the Ravens games were very much like the Steelers... many coming down to just a few clutch plays. The more you look, the more you would agree that at clutch time THIS SEASON, Flacco>Ben.

No doubt, at clutch time Flacco >then Ben. Sad but true. Also, let us not forget what B did in the playoffs. They were heavy underdogs vs. both Denver and Pats, and won convincingly. THAT's where they were impressive. Who comes into Pats house, in the play offs, and beats Brady after being BEHIND at the half? Answer? No ONE. It's never happened. And who SHUTS out Brady in the 2nd half, at his house in the play offs? NO ONE. The fact that the Ravens accomplished that is very impressive and makes them deserving to be at the show.

lloydroid
01-31-2013, 04:44 PM
Agree with the first part of your answer, not so much with the second. The bounces didn't go our way this year while they certainly did for the Ravens. As for your comparison of the QBs...I couldn't disagree more - Flacco is not better than Ben except for staying injury-free. What he is, is that he's the streakiest QB in the league as evidenced by both his good play in the post-season & the fact he was at the helm during a late-season swoon that almost had the Ravens miss the playoffs. That doesn't even take into account that Flacco put up four of the worst QB ratings this season - hardly elite, but he's in the big game & the media will be eager to crown him elite if they win. Also, don't discount the fact that Flacco benefits from having Ray Rice which forces defenses to play honest - what did the Steelers have this year in that department? Lastly, despite how the season ended, remember that Ben was being hailed as a MVP candidate whereas Flacco is second-fiddle on his own team to the aforementioned Rice.

Flacco has a QB rating of 114 in the post season and threw 8 TDs and zero pics. He is smokin'.

Ben has not been clutch since he lost the SB to GB. He wasn't clutch then and he hasn't been clutch since.

lloydroid
01-31-2013, 04:50 PM
Look at it by position:

QB-Steelers
RB-Ravens
OL-Ravens
WR-Even
TE-Steelers

DL-Ravens
LB-Even
DB-Even

Special Teams-Ravens

Right now I would say the Ravens are better which is why they are in the Super Bowl

No way are we even with their WRs, unless you pretend this is 2011 season instead of the 2012. Our WRs constantly sucked this year. Boldin and Smith eat our two best WRs for lunch. Wallace, of 2012, superior to those guys? Not even close. And don't be too quick to cast our TEs better than theirs. Pitta is a rising star and Dickson is better than our #2 TE.

And the level of superiority at RB can't be overlooked; not only are they better there, it's my a light year. Rice is one of the very best backs in the league and Pierce is better than ANY of our backs, period, and he is 2nd string.

Oviedo
01-31-2013, 06:15 PM
No way are we even with their WRs, unless you pretend this is 2011 season instead of the 2012. Our WRs constantly sucked this year. Boldin and Smith eat our two best WRs for lunch. Wallace, of 2012, superior to those guys? Not even close. And don't be too quick to cast our TEs better than theirs. Pitta is a rising star and Dickson is better than our #2 TE.

And the level of superiority at RB can't be overlooked; not only are they better there, it's my a light year. Rice is one of the very best backs in the league and Pierce is better than ANY of our backs, period, and he is 2nd string.


I don't disagree which is why I said the Ravens are better.

lloydroid
01-31-2013, 06:59 PM
I don't disagree which is why I said the Ravens are better.

But you said the WRs were "even." That's what I was referring to, is all.

Captain Lemming
01-31-2013, 07:01 PM
That wasn't the point; the point was to what degree is Balt. better. And that is relevant in determining how far we have to climb in order to beat them. MORE said.

The ravens are clearly better in one category. Run game, both because of the RBs and oline.

That is what separates them from us.

Given a Raven caliber run game the Ravens could not play with us, and we would dominate this league.

Captain Lemming
01-31-2013, 07:06 PM
they also have a superior HC

How is it then that CHARLIE BATCH beat the Ravens?

Given how superior their oline and run game are they should crush us every time.

We can compete with them using aging backup QBs. THAT does not seem like better coaching to me.

feltdizz
01-31-2013, 07:28 PM
Flacco has a QB rating of 114 in the post season and threw 8 TDs and zero pics. He is smokin'.

Ben has not been clutch since he lost the SB to GB. He wasn't clutch then and he hasn't been clutch since.

Yeah.. I knew Flacco would be a problem the first time we played him. I think we have him figured out but the teams who arent in our division... he's abusing them.

feltdizz
01-31-2013, 07:35 PM
How is it then that CHARLIE BATCH beat the Ravens?

Given how superior their oline and run game are they should crush us every time.

We can compete with them using aging backup QBs. THAT does not seem like better coaching to me.

Every so often we lose to Cleveland or Cinci... doesnt mean they are better that year.

feltdizz
01-31-2013, 08:29 PM
How is it then that CHARLIE BATCH beat the Ravens?

Given how superior their oline and run game are they should crush us every time.

We can compete with them using aging backup QBs. THAT does not seem like better coaching to me.

Every so often we lose to Cleveland or Cinci... doesnt mean they are better that year.

skyhawk
01-31-2013, 10:43 PM
Ravens are clearly better.

Rice
Boldin
Smith


nuff said.

skyhawk
01-31-2013, 10:44 PM
No way are we even with their WRs, unless you pretend this is 2011 season instead of the 2012. Our WRs constantly sucked this year. Boldin and Smith eat our two best WRs for lunch. Wallace, of 2012, superior to those guys? Not even close. And don't be too quick to cast our TEs better than theirs. Pitta is a rising star and Dickson is better than our #2 TE.

And the level of superiority at RB can't be overlooked; not only are they better there, it's my a light year. Rice is one of the very best backs in the league and Pierce is better than ANY of our backs, period, and he is 2nd string.

This. !!!

BradshawsHairdresser
01-31-2013, 11:08 PM
The Steelers matched up well vs. the Ravens this season...hey, the Rams matched up well with the 49ers, too.
Does anyone here think the Rams were nearly as good a team as the Niners this year?

Maybe next year the Steelers will be better than the Ravens. I sure hope so. But this season, if you go by their records, and where they ended up? Not that close.

lloydroid
02-01-2013, 01:37 AM
Yeah.. I knew Flacco would be a problem the first time we played him. I think we have him figured out but the teams who arent in our division... he's abusing them.

Wow. Great insights. Seriously.

lloydroid
02-01-2013, 01:41 AM
The Steelers matched up well vs. the Ravens this season...hey, the Rams matched up well with the 49ers, too.
Does anyone here think the Rams were nearly as good a team as the Niners this year?

Maybe next year the Steelers will be better than the Ravens. I sure hope so. But this season, if you go by their records, and where they ended up? Not that close.

Excellent point. How did the Rams stay right with the 9ers? We were very close to being the Raven's quality - but injuries were the main thing; I mean, let's be serious, the injuries were relentless. Old team

lloydroid
02-01-2013, 01:49 AM
How is it then that CHARLIE BATCH beat the Ravens?

Given how superior their oline and run game are they should crush us every time.

We can compete with them using aging backup QBs. THAT does not seem like better coaching to me.

In one of our only bright spots, the Steelers rose up that day. I bitch a lot about this season, but that day was awesome. Pgh had a resolve. I will never forget the Charlie-Ben embrace.

LordVile
02-01-2013, 03:04 AM
In one of our only bright spots, the Steelers rose up that day. I bitch a lot about this season, but that day was awesome. Pgh had a resolve. I will never forget the Charlie-Ben embrace.

yes sir.. that was the highlight of the season.. after all the well deserves CRAP everyone gave him.. OLD MAN BATCH, going out on top.. and redeemed himself!

supersteeler
02-01-2013, 11:07 AM
If you could describe the Steelers season what term would you pick?

Here's mine..... Jekyll And Hyde


They lay an egg against SanDiego let alone in OUR house, then against all odds trap the Rats.

papillon
02-01-2013, 01:36 PM
The difference between a 7-9 team and a 12-4 team is miniscule in the NFL. Obviously, a team that is 12-4 is "better" than a 7-9 team based on record and performance. My guess is that the 7-9 team was unable to make a handful or two of plays in a crucial moment of 3 or 4 games that cost them the season. The 12-4 team made those plays or didn't allow the other team to make them. Are the Ravens better? Not really, they played better in crucial moments. Are the Steelers better? Not really, they played poorly in crucial moments of crucial games.

Did one team have more injuries? Probably not, but the Ravens didn't have to play a game without Joe Flacco and the Steelers played three without Ben. The Steelers played 9 games without Troy and Ed Reed played the entire year.

The Ravens aren't better, they played better at the right time and that's a credit to them and a discredit to the Steelers inability to do the same.

Pappy

Captain Lemming
02-01-2013, 02:28 PM
Every so often we lose to Cleveland or Cinci... doesnt mean they are better that year.

Dizz, my point was not that we are the better team. I acknowledged they are better in my post just before the one you responded to.
I was responding to the contention that their coach is their edge.

We played basically even with them not once but TWICE. With backup QBs. That is no one game fluke.

They have better talent than we have when we have a HEALTHY QB, we have no business playing them even twice with ancient backup.

You yourself mentioned how we have Flacco "figured out". That is in a sense attributing the victory directly to coaching. It sure aint talent.

Harbaugh did a great job, but if we swapped coaches, does anyone think we are in the SB due to Harbaugh, while the Ravens don't make the playoffs due to Tomlin?

lloydroid
02-01-2013, 04:04 PM
The difference between a 7-9 team and a 12-4 team is miniscule in the NFL. Obviously, a team that is 12-4 is "better" than a 7-9 team based on record and performance. My guess is that the 7-9 team was unable to make a handful or two of plays in a crucial moment of 3 or 4 games that cost them the season. The 12-4 team made those plays or didn't allow the other team to make them. Are the Ravens better? Not really, they played better in crucial moments. Are the Steelers better? Not really, they played poorly in crucial moments of crucial games.

Did one team have more injuries? Probably not, but the Ravens didn't have to play a game without Joe Flacco and the Steelers played three without Ben. The Steelers played 9 games without Troy and Ed Reed played the entire year.

The Ravens aren't better, they played better at the right time and that's a credit to them and a discredit to the Steelers inability to do the same.

Pappy

I understand your points, but, bottom line, the Ravens are better in 2013. Not only did they find a way to win the div., but it is what they did AFTER in the play offs that proves they were superior. Let's see we did make the play offs with the team the way it was in 2012. Do you see us beating Indy (maybe) and then Denver and Pats on the road? I hardly see any chance of that. But Balt. pulled it off, and quite impressively, if we are being honest. The way they shut down Manning and Brady in the 2nd half of those games was quite impressive. Sure, they needed a deep bomb with 40 ticks left in Denver to get it to OT, but they did it. That's all that matters.

NorthCoast
02-02-2013, 11:07 AM
Agree with the first part of your answer, not so much with the second. The bounces didn't go our way this year while they certainly did for the Ravens. As for your comparison of the QBs...I couldn't disagree more - Flacco is not better than Ben except for staying injury-free. What he is, is that he's the streakiest QB in the league as evidenced by both his good play in the post-season & the fact he was at the helm during a late-season swoon that almost had the Ravens miss the playoffs. That doesn't even take into account that Flacco put up four of the worst QB ratings this season - hardly elite, but he's in the big game & the media will be eager to crown him elite if they win. Also, don't discount the fact that Flacco benefits from having Ray Rice which forces defenses to play honest - what did the Steelers have this year in that department? Lastly, despite how the season ended, remember that Ben was being hailed as a MVP candidate whereas Flacco is second-fiddle on his own team to the aforementioned Rice.

Read what I said again. THIS SEASON, Flacco made the plays he needed to for the Ravens to win games. Ben did not. THIS SEASON Flacco>Ben. You might dispute it. But throwing two critical INTs to end the season is not the definition of "clutch".

Never said Flacco was a better QB overall than Ben, because his is not.

feltdizz
02-02-2013, 11:22 AM
Dizz, my point was not that we are the better team. I acknowledged they are better in my post just before the one you responded to.
I was responding to the contention that their coach is their edge.

We played basically even with them not once but TWICE. With backup QBs. That is no one game fluke.

They have better talent than we have when we have a HEALTHY QB, we have no business playing them even twice with ancient backup.

You yourself mentioned how we have Flacco "figured out". That is in a sense attributing the victory directly to coaching. It sure aint talent.

Harbaugh did a great job, but if we swapped coaches, does anyone think we are in the SB due to Harbaugh, while the Ravens don't make the playoffs due to Tomlin?

I actually think the Harbaughs are better coaches that Tomlin. I disagree about how close we play the Ravens without Ben... its a rivalry and a division opponent. They had injuries as well..

williar
02-02-2013, 04:32 PM
I think the difference between the steelers and the ravens this past season was Leadership, Purpose and Resolve. Say what you want about Ray Lewis but he is the "straw that stirs the drink" for the ravens. Never has that been more evident than how that team has risen up to carry Ray out as a champion. The ravens played all season with hunger and deternination. We didn't! Our team played most of the season with no passion, pride or purpose. I also point to the raven victory as the best moment in our season when we did display some passion, pride and purpose.

Sugar
02-02-2013, 08:46 PM
I think the difference between the steelers and the ravens this past season was Leadership, Purpose and Resolve. Say what you want about Ray Lewis but he is the "straw that stirs the drink" for the ravens. Never has that been more evident than how that team has risen up to carry Ray out as a champion. The ravens played all season with hunger and deternination. We didn't! Our team played most of the season with no passion, pride or purpose. I also point to the raven victory as the best moment in our season when we did display some passion, pride and purpose.

I can agree with this. They found a "why" to their playing this year that meant the difference. This is on-field/locker room type of leadership that needs to be there regardless of the coaches. The Steelers are in a leadership transition right now and are finding out who their leaders are.

feltdizz
02-02-2013, 09:12 PM
Is it Ben? It felt like all of Pittsburgh was behind Charlie Batch and that was our high point this year...

Did our FO make Ben a lame duck? He should be the team leader but it feels like the FO stripped him this year.

..and to make matters worse Arians won coach of the year.

Sugar
02-02-2013, 11:22 PM
Is it Ben? It felt like all of Pittsburgh was behind Charlie Batch and that was our high point this year...

Did our FO make Ben a lame duck? He should be the team leader but it feels like the FO stripped him this year.

..and to make matters worse Arians won coach of the year.

what makes it worse is the way the FO treated BA. Tomlin told him he'd be back. Then they said he retired. Then it came out that they kicked him to the curb. Not one of their shining moments.

There may be something to the idea that the team wanted to show themselves to be bigger than Ben that they undermined his leadership and ended up hamstringing the whole O in the process.

NJ-STEELER
02-03-2013, 12:58 AM
Ravens are better... we match up well with the Ravens but they are slightly better than we are. When you look closely at the Ravens, they were extremely lucky or made the key play to extend their run while we found ways to shoot ourselves in the foot.

vs KC: They should have lost this game. Worst call I've every seen on a pick play where the DB blew up the WR and still got the call which brought back a TD.
vs SD: 4 and freaking 29... and they throw short and convert. We looked like azzz vs SD AT HOME.
vs Colts: Ray Rice has 2 huge fumbles... so they plug in the rookie RB and he gains 100 yards. Impressive.
vs Denver: The ST's give up 2 TD's.. Ravens are done. Miracle 72 yard bomb by Flacco. It's their year.
vs Pats: Completely destroyed them in the 2nd half on their field and Flacco outplays Brady for the second year in a row.

The Ravens look like we used to look a few years ago I just think they beat us when it comes to replacing vets.

the regular season game VS the pats was also questionable with the winning FG

NorthCoast
02-03-2013, 10:02 AM
what makes it worse is the way the FO treated BA. Tomlin told him he'd be back. Then they said he retired. Then it came out that they kicked him to the curb. Not one of their shining moments.

There may be something to the idea that the team wanted to show themselves to be bigger than Ben that they undermined his leadership and ended up hamstringing the whole O in the process.

This is an interesting comment. The big question is: why did the team feel they needed to do such a thing? If all was well with the Offense, then would they not leave well enough along?

ikestops85
02-04-2013, 03:15 PM
what makes it worse is the way the FO treated BA. Tomlin told him he'd be back. Then they said he retired. Then it came out that they kicked him to the curb. Not one of their shining moments.

There may be something to the idea that the team wanted to show themselves to be bigger than Ben that they undermined his leadership and ended up hamstringing the whole O in the process.

I'm sorry Sugar but I can't buy anything remotely like this thought process happening. The organization wants to win. That is how they make their money. When you win you put butts in seats, sell more in concessions/merchandise, and draw more fans to away games. All this leads to more money in their pockets.

No way do they go out of their way just to tick off franchise QB because they want to show him who is boss. They only do it if they figure the change will help them win more games in the long run. I'm sure they think Ben will eventually embrace this offense and it will lead to more victories.

BradshawsHairdresser
02-04-2013, 04:02 PM
I'm sorry Sugar but I can't buy anything remotely like this thought process happening. The organization wants to win. That is how they make their money. When you win you put butts in seats, sell more in concessions/merchandise, and draw more fans to away games. All this leads to more money in their pockets.

No way do they go out of their way just to tick off franchise QB because they want to show him who is boss. They only do it if they figure the change will help them win more games in the long run. I'm sure they think Ben will eventually embrace this offense and it will lead to more victories.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

feltdizz
02-04-2013, 04:15 PM
I'm sorry Sugar but I can't buy anything remotely like this thought process happening. The organization wants to win. That is how they make their money. When you win you put butts in seats, sell more in concessions/merchandise, and draw more fans to away games. All this leads to more money in their pockets.

No way do they go out of their way just to tick off franchise QB because they want to show him who is boss. They only do it if they figure the change will help them win more games in the long run. I'm sure they think Ben will eventually embrace this offense and it will lead to more victories.

Tell that to Ben because it sure seems like he feels this way and I've seen my boss go against sound logic just to prove he is the boss. I'm sure he thinks he is right but sometimes it's a power trip and the way they handled BA's firing smelled personal to me.

..and with Ben's past I'm sure they have gone out of their way to remind him who is in charge.

Sugar
02-04-2013, 05:26 PM
Tell that to Ben because it sure seems like he feels this way and I've seen my boss go against sound logic just to prove he is the boss. I'm sure he thinks he is right but sometimes it's a power trip and the way they handled BA's firing smelled personal to me.

..and with Ben's past I'm sure they have gone out of their way to remind him who is in charge.

I don't know if that's how it happened or not, but the facts of the case seem to indicate something similar. It reminds me of "Private Parts" when Stern is brought to WNBC to get them ratings and they don't like his character so they put a boss over him to try and "break" him. Again, I don't know what they did/did not do in that regard, but it looks to me like they undermined Ben at a time when the team needed to have some leadership.

Oviedo
02-04-2013, 05:31 PM
what makes it worse is the way the FO treated BA. Tomlin told him he'd be back. Then they said he retired. Then it came out that they kicked him to the curb. Not one of their shining moments.

There may be something to the idea that the team wanted to show themselves to be bigger than Ben that they undermined his leadership and ended up hamstringing the whole O in the process.

Ben is the most importnat player on our team. We can't win without him. Jerking him around would be stupid on the part of the front office. I think Arians was forced out because Art II overstepped his bounds and tried to push "Old fashioned" Steelers football a little too much. He needs to be like his Dad and stay out of things like that.

Sugar
02-04-2013, 05:37 PM
It's also interesting to see who the Steelers got to replace BA. They went from a more seasoned father figure style guy to a younger guy with a confrontational history. Was there a little bit of trying to make Ben fall in line? IDK.

I do find it funny that so many here wanted no part of Caldwell and now he's being credited for helping Baltimore get over the top.

Ghost
02-04-2013, 05:43 PM
I wonder how much of the Haley hiring was Tomlin and how much was front office/Rooney influence? I still like the hire and there's NO reason Ben and Coach haley couldn't work together to make the offense powerful, unless Ben just doesn't want to do it. Haley was nothing but professional all year and that was with an offense of RB's acting as if the ball was greased, lineman going down as if it was a war zone, and WR's having their worst seasons in years.

Sugar
02-04-2013, 05:51 PM
I wonder how much of the Haley hiring was Tomlin and how much was front office/Rooney influence? I still like the hire and there's NO reason Ben and Coach haley couldn't work together to make the offense powerful, unless Ben just doesn't want to do it. Haley was nothing but professional all year and that was with an offense of RB's acting as if the ball was greased, lineman going down as if it was a war zone, and WR's having their worst seasons in years.

I agree with this. Despite what some posters here would have you believe, Ben is also being very professional about it. As has been pointed out, he was having a great year prior to the KC game. He seemed to get back into the flow against Cleveland. Yeah, it was too little, too late. Yeah, it was Cleveland. But still...

I'm already looking forward to next year. A lot of people will be sleeping on the Steelers and I think the team will have something to prove. For some reason, they seem to play better that way. The big thing is to get healthy and minimize the losses due to the salary cap.

fezziwig
02-04-2013, 05:53 PM
25% better