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View Full Version : Walterfootball.com's latest mock has JARVIS JONES falling to the Steelers!



RuthlessBurgher
01-30-2013, 01:17 PM
Pittsburgh Steelers: Jarvis Jones, DE/OLB, Georgia
Boom. Jarvis Jones drops to No. 17 overall in this mock. I had Jones going No. 2 overall a couple of updates ago, but check out Charlie's rumor mill entry on why Jones is expected to slide.

I believe dumb groupthink will cause Jones to fall on Draft Day. General managers will be petrified of his spine issue. But, as smart teams like the Steelers, Giants, Ravens, etc. often do, they'll snatch up a plummeting draft prospect and laugh at all of the dumb organizations constantly picking in the top 10 as they field yet another Pro Bowler.

Jones isn't just the best player available; he fills a big need as well. James Harrison may not be back next year. He'll be due $6.6 million as a 35-year-old who is having trouble staying healthy. The Steelers may spend an early pick on a rush linebacker.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2013_1.php

For what it's worth, here is that aforementioned rumor mill entry about why Jones is expected to slide:


Jarvis Jones Expected To Slide on Draft Day
Published Jan. 18, 2013
By Charlie Campbell - @draftcampbell

Georgia outside linebacker Jarvis Jones had been one of the most dominant football players in college football the past two seasons. He's destroyed the SEC for those two years, as many consider him to be one of the most talented players in the 2013 NFL Draft class. Jones is on top of my 2013 NFL Draft Big Board, as well as ESPN's Mel Kiper's.

However, after speaking with scouts at the East-West Shrine Game who have Jones in their territory, they say they expect Jones to slide down and fall out of the top five next April.

The scouts said there are a few reasons that could add up to Jones falling into the 6-10 range. First of all, the scouts said that Jones is not a good workout guy. They don't believe that he is going to test well or stand out in the Combine or pre-draft workouts. Area scouts who cover Georgia say that Jones is not a weight-room guy. He doesn't put a lot of work in during the week, but would show up on Saturday and dominate naturally.

They said that Jones is a good guy and a good teammate, but just isn't a tireless worker. As one scout said, "Don't get me wrong, if you watch his tapes you'll say he is worth being the No. 1 rated player and going in the top five of the draft. You can watch him on Saturdays and see that this guy is animal. He's clearly the best player on the field, but not a guy that you'll be in love with during the week. Add in the medical concern and with the testing, and I think he's going to slide some on Draft Day."

Jones' medical condition is a spinal stenosis that happened as a freshman at USC. On a routine hit against Oregon, Jones sustained the injury. A specialist told him he would be fine, but USC's doctors wouldn't clear him and told him he should retire from football. After transferring to Georgia, Jones broke out as one of the best players in college football.

As a junior, Jones had 85 tackles, 14.5 sacks, 24.5 tackles for a loss, seven forced fumbles, three passes broken up and one interception in 2012. Jones had massive performances against Florida and Missouri with consistently good outings all year. Jones led the nation in sacks and for the second straight season had the most sacks in the SEC.

In 2011, he tied for the second-most sacks in the nation, 13.5. He also had 70 tackles with 19.5 tackles for a loss and two forced fumbles.

Jones could be a classic example of teams overthinking the draft process. Over the history of the draft, good players have slid because of an unnecessary medical concerns or not working out well at the Combine. If Jones plays in the NFL like he did at Georgia, he'll reward whomever takes him on Draft Day with plenty of teams feeling regret.

http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftrumormill.php#jarvisjonesfall

In my mind, the neck injury scare at USC was answered by a couple of excellent seasons at UGa. I couldn't care less if he doesn't test well at the Combine or in pre-draft workouts...the tape he's put out there matters much more than that. Dude looks like another Von Miller to me. If he somehow slid to us, I would be ecstatic. We'd have our Harrison replacement and a scary pass rush once again.

ikestops85
01-30-2013, 01:33 PM
That would be great if he drops to us. I think that is our biggest need right now. Do you think something like this could happen 2 years in a row?

Mister Pittsburgh
01-30-2013, 01:48 PM
Bring him on. Pay Mike Adams to blow pot smoke in his face the night before the combine pee test then snatch him up at 17

supersteeler
01-30-2013, 01:59 PM
Bring him on. Pay Mike Adams to blow pot smoke in his face the night before the combine pee test then snatch him up at 17

Lol.

I seen on another mock the Lions might pick him. From what I read and heard he's a good player and could eventually be Silverbacks replacement, but if he's that good I doubt he's there @17.

Oviedo
01-30-2013, 02:56 PM
Lol.

I seen on another mock the Lions might pick him. From what I read and heard he's a good player and could eventually be Silverbacks replacement, but if he's that good I doubt he's there @17.

I agree. Him being at #17 would be a bigger shocker than DeCastro being there by a million miles. More likely we see pass rushers like Ansah or Dion Jordan at #17.

feltdizz
01-30-2013, 03:55 PM
No more players who "fall" to us...

ikestops85
01-30-2013, 04:57 PM
No more players who "fall" to us...

I like when players "fall" to us. I don't like when one of our players "fall" on said player. :HeadBanger

RuthlessBurgher
01-30-2013, 05:19 PM
I agree. Him being at #17 would be a bigger shocker than DeCastro being there by a million miles. More likely we see pass rushers like Ansah or Dion Jordan at #17.

I like me some Ziggy Ansah. Even though he is raw and relatively new to the game, he was still a dominant force during the Senior Bowl game.

Oviedo
01-30-2013, 05:23 PM
I like me some Ziggy Ansah. Even though he is raw and relatively new to the game, he was still a dominant force during the Senior Bowl game.

Ditto! He'd also look pretty good as a 4-3 DE:D

bowldog
01-30-2013, 05:32 PM
I don't think he has to be a workout warrior but he has to work out some, because these are men not boys that he's going to playing against. Also did it say anything about his work ethic on the practice field and or film study?

lloydroid
01-30-2013, 05:52 PM
LT didn't work out either. He was kind of OK. This kid won't fall all the way to 17 unless he fails drug test or something like that. He has pure athletic skill and kills it on game day. I won't even bother thinking about him falling to 17 as it just ain't gonna happen.

NorthCoast
01-30-2013, 07:54 PM
Jones' description reads a lot like what they say about Geno Atkins (not a practice warrior, etc), and look how that has turned out..... just sayin...

hawaiiansteel
01-31-2013, 12:23 AM
Ditto! He'd also look pretty good as a 4-3 DE:D

Ovi, you crack me up! :Cheers

papillon
01-31-2013, 12:30 AM
Ditto! He'd also look pretty good as a 4-3 DE:D

He won't be playing for the Steelers then. :p

Pappy

steelblood
01-31-2013, 11:43 AM
I like me some Ziggy Ansah. Even though he is raw and relatively new to the game, he was still a dominant force during the Senior Bowl game.

Ruthless, I sort of agree. This kid really intrigues me. I've seen him three times this year. Once, he looked confused and disinterested. Another time (San Diego State) he worked harder, but was fooled too often in the first half. In the second, he seemed to figure out the blocking scheme and forced the offense to work away from him. And, finally, at the senior bowl, when he just cut loose, he was dominant.

It will take him a year or two in the least to reach his potential. And, what is his position if the Steelers take him? If we play a 3-4, is he an OLB or a DE or a nickel pass rusher. Given that he is still learning, we would need to pick a position for him and stick to it. Personally, I think he will be most effective in a tampa 2 where he can play DE where he simply sets the edge vs the run and goes after the passer on pass plays.

RuthlessBurgher
01-31-2013, 01:19 PM
Ruthless, I sort of agree. This kid really intrigues me. I've seen him three times this year. Once, he looked confused and disinterested. Another time (San Diego State) he worked harder, but was fooled too often in the first half. In the second, he seemed to figure out the blocking scheme and forced the offense to work away from him. And, finally, at the senior bowl, when he just cut loose, he was dominant.

It will take him a year or two in the least to reach his potential. And, what is his position if the Steelers take him? If we play a 3-4, is he an OLB or a DE or a nickel pass rusher. Given that he is still learning, we would need to pick a position for him and stick to it. Personally, I think he will be most effective in a tampa 2 where he can play DE where he simply sets the edge vs the run and goes after the passer on pass plays.

He could contribute right away with his hand in the dirt as a DE in the nickel and dime defenses (that's essentially all that Aldon Smith did as a rookie, since he wasn't good enough against the run early on to play full time, and he certainly had an impact as a pass rusher). It will take some time for him to learn to play 3-4 OLB in our scheme, but eventually, that is where he would end up (it would be a waste to have him bulk up to become a 3-4 DE). If Harrison is a cap casualty, I could live for a year or maybe even two with Worilds at OLB on early downs, and Ansah as a pass rushing DE in nickel and dime, until the kid is ready for prime time. Unlike some folks on the board, I'm not hung up on how much of an impact that a rookie first round pick will have right away...I'm more concerned with the long-term, and this guys looks like he could be a dynamite long-term investment.

SteelCrazy
01-31-2013, 03:49 PM
Jones will be offf the board by the time the draft reaches pick 6 and if he's not, there will be a regret or two.

squidkid
01-31-2013, 03:51 PM
no way he makes it to 17

Slapstick
01-31-2013, 03:54 PM
While I also do not believe that Jones makes it to 17, I do believe that there will be a premier pass rusher available for the Steelers to select...I think both need and value will dovetail once again for the black and gold...

Jones, Jordan, Anzah...I truly think one of those three will be there...

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
01-31-2013, 04:00 PM
He fits...A hell of a football player....
But there is a reason why someone so productive would fall this far to begin with.
So for a kid who will be 24 and his medical...I would pass too.

There is only one OLB I would take at #17 and that would be Moore. I highly doubt he would even make it out of the Top 10.

RuthlessBurgher
01-31-2013, 04:51 PM
no way he makes it to 17

I agree, but then again I said the same exact thing last year about DeCastro dropping down to pick #24. I happened to find someone else (CBSSports.com this time) who is mocking that Jones falls right into our laps as well:



17. Pittsburgh Steelers (8-8) Jarvis Jones, OLB, Georgia: Pass rusher James Harrison will soon turn 35 years old and his best playing days are behind him. With the Steelers looking to add a pass rusher at some point in this draft, they might not be able to pass on Jones, who could slip a little bit due to some long-term durability issues.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfldraftscout-DaneBrugler

Eddie Spaghetti
01-31-2013, 05:34 PM
if he makes it past 12 or so, I might have a heart attack waiting to see if he gets to us.

also hard to take any mock serious that has mike glennon going #7 overall.

steelblood
02-01-2013, 08:26 AM
Moore, Werner, and Jones are all likely going in the top 10 or so. Then, Ansah, Jordan, Mingo, Okafor, and Montgomery are all likely fitting into the 1st round or so. That is 8 pass rushers in the first 32 picks or so. Someone is bound to fall as other teams reach for QBs, LTs, and WRs. The strong DT/NT/3-4 DE class will also help push some of these pass rushers back a bit. I also think that pass rushers in the 3rd-5th round will also be good values because so many teams already drafted one earlier. A guy like Maponga could be an excellent value in the middle rounds.

If there were ever a year to switch to a 4-3, this would be it. The Steelers could take a 4-3 right end (elite pass rusher like most of the guys above) in the first and then find a very good base end like Datone Jones or Margus Hunt on Day two and another 4-3 backer like Kaseem Green, Arthur Jones, or Gerald Hodges. Could you imagine this lineup...

DEs = Woodley, Ansah, Datone Jones, Worilds, Adrian Robinson, Chris Carter
DTs = Hood, Heyward, Ta'Amu, McClendon
LBs = Spence, Timmons, Kaseem Greene, Sylvestor

That isn't too bad (especially if Spence is relatively healthy).

8467thekraken
02-01-2013, 08:59 AM
A player of his caliber and position isn't likely to fall like DDC did.

I am in the not-holding-my-breath-but-would-be-happy-if-it-happened group.

Keyplay1
02-01-2013, 09:55 AM
This is always one of the toughest positions to draft. Talking about a replacement for Harrison and almost all of the players mentioned are always lining up as DE and most of them are on the other side. Very hard to project how they would do in the 3-4. But sooner or later it is a must do.

steelblood said: DEs = Woodley, Ansah, Datone Jones, Worilds, Adrian Robinson, Chris Carter
DTs = Hood, Heyward, Ta'Amu, McClendon
LBs = Spence, Timmons, Kaseem Greene, Sylvestor

That isn't too bad (especially if Spence is relatively healthy).

A lot of unproven players in there but it would probably be a formidable get after people group. Woodley would have to get back to his 2008 form and the rooks would have to be for real. Why not?

RuthlessBurgher said: "He [Ansah?] could contribute right away with his hand in the dirt as a DE in the nickel and dime defenses (that's essentially all that Aldon Smith did as a rookie, since he wasn't good enough against the run early on to play full time, and he certainly had an impact as a pass rusher). It will take some time for him to learn to play 3-4 OLB in our scheme, but eventually, that is where he would end up (it would be a waste to have him bulk up to become a 3-4 DE). btw: Did you mean Aaron Smith?

Me said: This situation is reminding me of 2007. The early talk and many mocks had the Steelers taking Jarvis Moss a DE/OLB from Florida. Many fans did not like this and they were right. He was drafted by Denver at #17 and did very little for them as was predicted by many posters here.

But, the rap on Moss was he was not considered tough and Jarvis Jones is tough. But whether or not he can convert to a 3-4 OLB is always a question.Probably would be worth the risk but the question is would he actually be a better fit than any of those other players mentioned. [Ansah, Okafor, Jordan and Datone Jones.]

Incidentally, I just looked it up and the Steelers passed on Jarvis Moss who was taken at #17 by Denver and TS took Timmons at #15. Then of course got lucky as Woodley was there in rd 2. Just for laughs here was what Moss did .

2011Oakland Raiders (http://www.nfl.com/teams/oaklandraiders/profile?team=OAK)141161151.5--1----0.0----02010Oakland Raiders (http://www.nfl.com/teams/oaklandraiders/profile?team=OAK)503031.0--0----0.0----02010Denver Broncos (http://www.nfl.com/teams/denverbroncos/profile?team=DEN)905410.0--0----0.0----02009Denver Broncos (http://www.nfl.com/teams/denverbroncos/profile?team=DEN)700000.0--1----0.0----02008Denver Broncos (http://www.nfl.com/teams/denverbroncos/profile?team=DEN)120121022.5--0----0.0----02007Denver Broncos (http://www.nfl.com/teams/denverbroncos/profile?team=DEN)6112931.0--0----0.0----1TOTAL4834146.00200--001

Its a jumble? But anyway it was very little.

Slapstick
02-01-2013, 10:26 AM
I believe Ruthless meant Aldon Smith, the OLB for the 49ers...

I really like guys like Dion Jordan and Ziggy Ansah, who have played a stand up rush position or even dropped into coverage....

Keyplay1
02-01-2013, 10:56 AM
I see where Aldon Smith is in the news. They are talking about SF must get their pass rush going. But isn't SF a 4-3 D?

Keyplay1
02-01-2013, 11:13 AM
I believe Ruthless meant Aldon Smith, the OLB for the 49ers...

I really like guys like Dion Jordan and Ziggy Ansah, who have played a stand up rush position or even dropped into coverage....

For some reason most fans seem to prefer Jordan and Ansah over the other two Okafor and Datone Jones. Why is that? They all seem quite similar to me. And that Datone guy was the only one that gave Eric Fisher fits at the senior bowl practices and Okafor seems to have a non-stop motor. Yet rarely are they mentioned and it is almost always the other two. I'm going to have to watch and see how all those guys do next year. Probably all will do well.

steelblood
02-01-2013, 11:40 AM
For some reason most fans seem to prefer Jordan and Ansah over the other two Okafor and Datone Jones. Why is that? They all seem quite similar to me. And that Datone guy was the only one that gave Eric Fisher fits at the senior bowl practices and Okafor seems to have a non-stop motor. Yet rarely are they mentioned and it is almost always the other two. I'm going to have to watch and see how all those guys do next year. Probably all will do well.

I think all four offer different things.

Dion Jordan is over 6'6 and weighs like 240. He is very thin even for a 3-4 OLB. Jordan offers the best coverage skills of the group. He has elite quickness and is already very natural dropping into coverage (none of the other 3 can do this). Jordan's gift is his athleticism and movement skills. He could play outside linebacker in a 4-3. Many project him to be an impact pass rusher at the next level because of his quickness and athleticism. However, this season he was asked to do other things and did not really produce as a pass rusher.

Ansah is the athletic freak. He is a little shorter than Jordan and 30 pounds heavier. He has rare burst and acceleration for someone of his weight. He also has impressive strength throughout his body. He could play both 3-4 DE and OLB in our scheme. He has not proven that he can be effective in coverage yet and it may take a while for him to digest our defense as he is still refining his fundamentals and higher understanding of the game.

Okafor is probably the best plug and play 3-4 OLB in the Steeler mold. He is very seasoned as a pass rusher and run defender. He has excellent 3-4 OLB size at 6'4 250 lbs. He is a very effective bull rusher, excellent tackler, football smart, and a team leader. Okafor is late first round pick because he is not a real quick twitch, elite quickness edge rusher. He does have some speed rush moves, but he is not elite in any way. Okafor would probably be slightly better than Woodley in coverage, but not as good as Harrison. He did drop occasionally at Texas.

Datone Jones is probably best as a base 4-3 DE. He is very thickly built with large thighs and strong arms. He weighs about 270-275. For us, he'd probably have to play DE as I'm not sure he moves well enough to play OLB. He would be an excellent nickel pass rusher from the inside. Jones is able to anchor well and has the quickness to shoot gaps. If he gets offensive linemen off-balance he will easily bullrush them. Jones is a riser right now after the Senior Bowl. But, before that, he was a late second, early third round pick. I still don't think he'll be chosen in the top 40, but he is making a push.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
02-01-2013, 11:45 AM
I see where Aldon Smith is in the news. They are talking about SF must get their pass rush going. But isn't SF a 4-3 D?

SF plays a 3-4. In his rookie year Smith was just a third down pass rushing specialist when the D went to 4 DL and nickel or dime package. That is what Ruthless means - bring him in as a specialist in year one as he learns the position of 3-4 OLB.

Chadman
02-01-2013, 12:24 PM
Reckon that there will be a few sad faces when the Steelers don't draft an OLB early.

they have Harrison's replacement on the roster already.

The OLB Chadman is watching with interest is Nebraska's Eric Martin...

NW Steeler
02-01-2013, 01:33 PM
Reckon that there will be a few sad faces when the Steelers don't draft an OLB early.

they have Harrison's replacement on the roster already.

The OLB Chadman is watching with interest is Nebraska's Eric Martin...

I take it you mean Worilds? I still dont feel comfortable with that plan for some reason. Mostly because he hasn't played enough for me to have an opinion. Then again, both of our OLB's were pretty quiet/invisible this year, especially Wood.

Mister Pittsburgh
02-01-2013, 01:42 PM
If Harrison is cut, would it make any sense to move Woodley to ROLB and put Worilds at LOLB? Worilds seemed to struggle on the right side, but look pretty darn good on the left when filling in for Woodley.

papillon
02-01-2013, 02:10 PM
If Harrison is cut, would it make any sense to move Woodley to ROLB and put Worilds at LOLB? Worilds seemed to struggle on the right side, but look pretty darn good on the left when filling in for Woodley.

I'm not certain of this, but I think to some degree Worilds appeared to struggle because he isn't James Harrison. Some fans don't realize how stinkin good James has been for the past 6 or 7 years and that's why other players look out of sorts playing his position. My hope is that the Steelers and James can work something out, before he retires I'd personally like to make sure that he's done. The last 3 or 4 games of the year he was playing in close to beast mode again. It would be great just to be able to make sure the tank is empty before he hangs them up.

Pappy

Sugar
02-01-2013, 02:14 PM
I'm not certain of this, but I think to some degree Worilds appeared to struggle because he isn't James Harrison. Some fans don't realize how stinkin good James has been for the past 6 or 7 years and that's why other players look out of sorts playing his position. My hope is that the Steelers and James can work something out, before he retires I'd personally like to make sure that he's done. The last 3 or 4 games of the year he was playing in close to beast mode again. It would be great just to be able to make sure the tank is empty before he hangs them up.

Pappy

I was thinking this too. I'd hate to see him playing like a monster for the Redskins or something because the FO cut him loose too soon.

Oviedo
02-01-2013, 05:28 PM
I take it you mean Worilds? I still dont feel comfortable with that plan for some reason. Mostly because he hasn't played enough for me to have an opinion. Then again, both of our OLB's were pretty quiet/invisible this year, especially Wood.

IMO Worilds was a better player than both Harrison and Woodley this past season. The stats support hat given the playing time Worilds got.

Keyplay1
02-01-2013, 06:34 PM
Very interesting.

No doubt OLB is on the long list now of possible 1st rd picks. But, not likely to be the 1st rd option. Your draft which would bring in a load of quality players suggests the same.

But since the board is analyzing this position I took a look at how TS acquired the successful OLB's since the Cowher era 1992.

1992 -- Gregg Lloyd and Jerrold Williams

Lloyd was a 6th rd pick drafted as a LB 1987
Williams was a 4th rd pick drafted as a LB in 1989

1993 -- Kevin Greene FA

1996 -- Jason Gildon and Chad Brown

Chad Brown 2nd rd pick in 1993 drafted as an ILB
Jason Gildon 3rd rd pick in 1994 drafted as a LB

1998 -- Gildon and Carlos Emmons

Emmons 7th rd pick in 1996 drafted as a LB

2000 -- Gildon and Joey Porter

Porter 3rd rd pick in 1999 drafted as a LB [Both Gildon and Haggans were listed as OLB with DE as 2nd option on nflds. Does anyone know what Defensive system Colorado St used then? I did find a vid from then but all it showed was them jumping on the QB's but from where they came ????

Haggans 5th rd drafted as a LB then replaced Gildon and that brings it up to now.

Harrison was a UDFA and Woodley was drafted as a LB so was Worilds.

Unfortunately, this is not telling me what I was looking for. Woodley however was listed on his nfldraftscout profile as a DE first and OLB second. Worilds was listed as a OLB 1st and DE 2nd.
The others except for Chad Brown who was an ILB 1st were all listed as LB. They were all too far back to find out whether or not they did any DE stuff.

But it does seem that more than likely players who were primarily LB's have been more successful at being 3-4 OLB's than DE's. Then again maybe Kevin Greene was also DE type. And Harrison I think was always a LB of one type or other. Greene was drafted in 85 by the Rams as a LB but I do think he did play as a rush DE for them. Not sure. Does anyone remember?

But actually then there have been some players who were excellent 3-4 OLB's who played at each position in college. So it must be an individual thing. But anyway TS have not been digging these guys up lately.

Not to complicate the issue even more, but there was another highly regarded mock that had TS taking Vaccaro the Texas Safety at 17. Hey, you can't rule out DB SS FS CB in rd 1. If there is another Polamalu there or Rod Woodson. Oh well, there will be threads on this possibility in coming weeks.

Slapstick
02-01-2013, 06:50 PM
Here's the thing:

The Steelers do not often get a chance at an elite pass rusher in round 1...

I recall watching the Steelers draft Troy Edwards and passing up on Jevon Kearse...please, God, never again...

Chadman
02-01-2013, 10:43 PM
I take it you mean Worilds? I still dont feel comfortable with that plan for some reason. Mostly because he hasn't played enough for me to have an opinion. Then again, both of our OLB's were pretty quiet/invisible this year, especially Wood.

How do you feel about McLendon taking over at NT? Most people are ok with that, but Worilds has played more, and had more impact, yet we are worried about him playing.

Slapstick
02-02-2013, 03:23 PM
How do you feel about McLendon taking over at NT? Most people are ok with that, but Worilds has played more, and had more impact, yet we are worried about him playing.

This is a good point...

Personally, I think both will see the field a lot more this season...mostly because the incumbents (Hampton and Harrison) will most likely be gone...