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View Full Version : Something to think about in regards to this years draft...



Dee Dub
01-25-2013, 08:33 PM
The Steelers very well could have a boat load of draft picks next year (2014). With possible losses in free agency of Starks, Wallace, Foster, Lewis, Foote, and Mendenhall, this could net a very descent return in compensatory picks. Lewis, Wallace, and Starks could even bring back a relatively high one. With the possibility of having 9-12 picks next year, the Steelers could very easily trade away a second or third rounder next year if they wanted to move up and draft a player like Eric Fisher or even Chance Warmack.

BigRob
01-25-2013, 09:14 PM
The Steelers very well could have a boat load of draft picks next year (2014). With possible losses in free agency of Starks, Wallace, Foster, Lewis, Foote, and Mendenhall, this could net a very descent return in compensatory picks. Lewis, Wallace, and Starks could even bring back a relatively high one. With the possibility of having 9-12 picks next year, the Steelers could very easily trade away a second or third rounder next year if they wanted to move up and draft a player like Eric Fisher or even Chance Warmack.

Hopefully they see a guy they have ranked so highly they can't help but go and get.

Otherwise I prefer them to do the opposite. Trade back and get a crap load of extra picks this year. There is no clear cut top of the draft, but it is very deep. I would love to see them move back once or twice and get a bunch of extra picks.

Then use those picks this year and in next years draft to get young in a hurry again.

squidkid
01-25-2013, 09:31 PM
Hopefully they see a guy they have ranked so highly they can't help but go and get.

Otherwise I prefer them to do the opposite. Trade back and get a crap load of extra picks this year. There is no clear cut top of the draft, but it is very deep. I would love to see them move back once or twice and get a bunch of extra picks.

Then use those picks this year and in next years draft to get young in a hurry again.

then cut half of them and keep the aging vets and let the ones that stuck sit on the bench for a few years until they learn the defense.......oh, and then ben will be close to done.

Oviedo
01-26-2013, 10:39 AM
Hopefully they see a guy they have ranked so highly they can't help but go and get.

Otherwise I prefer them to do the opposite. Trade back and get a crap load of extra picks this year. There is no clear cut top of the draft, but it is very deep. I would love to see them move back once or twice and get a bunch of extra picks.

Then use those picks this year and in next years draft to get young in a hurry again.

Agree. If we aren't targeting a top offensive lineman at #17 then trade back and get more picks because we have LOTS of needs.

Dee Dub
01-26-2013, 02:06 PM
Agree. If we aren't targeting a top offensive lineman at #17 then trade back and get more picks because we have LOTS of needs.

I do not agree with this. I do not think the Steelers have lots of needs. Had their QB not gotten hurt this team is in the playoffs and making a legitimate run. This team does need a few pieces here and there but they do not have lots of needs.

The Indianapolis Colts were 2-14 and everybody and their mother thought they had lots of needs. They get a legitimate QB and they completely turn it all around.

Why do fans over-react like this? The Steelers need to tweak a few things. Not a major over-haul needed. One more impact player on both sides of the ball and a healthy Ben and we are driving for #7.

Dee Dub
01-26-2013, 02:19 PM
Here. I'll lay it out. Assuming Ben stays healthy next season and they do some re-structuring of contracts (Ben, Ike, Harrison, Woodley, Timmons, etc.), which we know they will (they always do). This would enable them to re-sign Lewis and keep Harrison and Ike. The adding of two players from this draft could change the entire outlook of this team.

Two guys who you can plug and play from day one. Two guys on each side of the ball that improves this team.

Eric Fisher and Kevin Minter.

Knowing there are going to be several extra picks next year, you can trade up to get both of these players this year and it really doesn't hurt your accumulation of depth. Trading the #64 overall pick in 2014 would allow you to move up this year to at least spot 12. Trading away this years 3rd round pick would allow you to move up back into round one to at least pick number 30. So they lose a 3rd rounder this year and 2nd rounder next year but they are probably getting at least 4-5 extra picks next year.

Oviedo
01-26-2013, 02:29 PM
I do not agree with this. I do not think the Steelers have lots of needs. Had their QB not gotten hurt this team is in the playoffs and making a legitimate run. This team does need a few pieces here and there but they do not have lots of needs.

The Indianapolis Colts were 2-14 and everybody and their mother thought they had lots of needs. They get a legitimate QB and they completely turn it all around.

Why do fans over-react like this? The Steelers need to tweak a few things. Not a major over-haul needed. One more impact player on both sides of the ball and a healthy Ben and we are driving for #7.

Well we can disagree. The two player who are defense has been designed around are unreliable health risks--Troy and Harrison. Our OL is young and also unreliable health wise. We have three years of declining performance in sacking the QB and intercepting the ball, probably the most important defensive stats since they are game changing plays.

If the front office believes as you do we are just a tweak here and there from a Super Bowl we had better get use to third place in the AFC North.

Dee Dub
01-26-2013, 02:34 PM
Well we can disagree. The two player who are defense has been designed around are unreliable health risks--Troy and Harrison. Our OL is young and also unreliable health wise. We have three years of declining performance in sacking the QB and intercepting the ball, probably the most important defensive stats since they are game changing plays.

If the front office believes as you do we are just a tweak here and there from a Super Bowl we had better get use to third place in the AFC North.

Where were the Steelers before Ben got hurt? And without Troy and a healthy productive James Harrison? 6-3 and having just beat the defending super bowl champions in their own house?

I'm telling you an over-reaction is going cause a huge fall off. This team is a a lot closer than many people believe.

Eddie Spaghetti
01-26-2013, 02:36 PM
Agree. If we aren't targeting a top offensive lineman at #17 then trade back and get more picks because we have LOTS of needs.

so we have LOTS of needs, but should only target an OL in a trade up scenario? Makes zero sense.

Oviedo
01-26-2013, 02:38 PM
so we have LOTS of needs, but should only target an OL in a trade up scenario? Makes zero sense.

Who said trade up for anything. I said stay at #17 if you have a chance to get a top offensive lineman other than that trade down. Not reading what is written in haste to take exception makes zero sense!

Eddie Spaghetti
01-26-2013, 02:41 PM
so say, if a jarvis jones starts to slide, you don't go and get him if possible?

Oviedo
01-26-2013, 02:42 PM
so say, if a jarvis jones starts to slide, you don't go and get him if possible?

If it costs us two additional picks then no I wouldn't do it for a player who will be on the field minimally for at least the next year.

Eddie Spaghetti
01-26-2013, 02:46 PM
fair enough. I just don't believe the only player we should look for at 17 is an OL. Trading back does make sense to me. Going back 5-6 spots and grabbing either WR hopkins or patterson would be ok with me. I'm just not locked into OL being the only pick at 17 as you seem to be.

Dee Dub
01-26-2013, 02:48 PM
If it costs us two additional picks then no I wouldn't do it for a player who will be on the field minimally for at least the next year.

Why are you so hung up on having all these picks? Half the players more than likely wont even make a roster. It happens every year. Plus this team will get at least one compensatory pick this year and possibly as many as 3-5 next year. Trade a 2nd round pick next year and our 3rd round pick this year and you end up with two plug and play starters in Eric Fisher and Kevin Minter. Plus by drafting LT Eric Fisher it now gives you a little of that depth (on the O-line), you so want. Now you have a legitimate battle going on for the RT spot.

When are you ever going to be able to do that?

BigRob
01-26-2013, 02:59 PM
Here. I'll lay it out. Assuming Ben stays healthy next season and they do some re-structuring of contracts (Ben, Ike, Harrison, Woodley, Timmons, etc.), which we know they will (they always do). This would enable them to re-sign Lewis and keep Harrison and Ike. The adding of two players from this draft could change the entire outlook of this team.

Two guys who you can plug and play from day one. Two guys on each side of the ball that improves this team.

Eric Fisher and Kevin Minter.

Knowing there are going to be several extra picks next year, you can trade up to get both of these players this year and it really doesn't hurt your accumulation of depth. Trading the #64 overall pick in 2014 would allow you to move up this year to at least spot 12. Trading away this years 3rd round pick would allow you to move up back into round one to at least pick number 30. So they lose a 3rd rounder this year and 2nd rounder next year but they are probably getting at least 4-5 extra picks next year.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but there are only two players I am trading up for at this point. Moore and Fisher. I don't think we can trade up far enough to get either without giving up the farm. Fisher is going in the top 7 or 8 picks. I don't think we can go from 17 to 8 with just a 2nd rounder.

I am content to see if we can trade up two or three spots to get Lane Johnson. He's going to be a good left tackle.

Does anyone realize that Johnson has only played o-line for three years. He was a junior college QB three years ago!

I would like to see a trade back and pick up an extra 2nd round pick in this years draft. It is a deep draft and two high 2nd round picks would be great.

Dee Dub
01-26-2013, 03:10 PM
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but there are only two players I am trading up for at this point. Moore and Fisher. I don't think we can trade up far enough to get either without giving up the farm. Fisher is going in the top 7 or 8 picks. I don't think we can go from 17 to 8 with just a 2nd rounder.

I am content to see if we can trade up two or three spots to get Lane Johnson. He's going to be a good left tackle.

Does anyone realize that Johnson has only played o-line for three years. He was a junior college QB three years ago!

I would like to see a trade back and pick up an extra 2nd round pick in this years draft. It is a deep draft and two high 2nd round picks would be great.

I dont think Fisher will go in the top 8. Teams are going to reach for QB's. They do it every year. Fisher I think is there at pick 12. And trading a second rounder next year with our #17 this year gets you there. And this is using the formula that the Steelers have the #64 overall pick next year. Meaning they win the Super Bowl next year. How many opposing team are thinking right now the Steelers win next years super bowl? Therefore the value of that pick may be even greater in their minds and possibly moves us up to 11 or 10.

#17 overall is a trade value of 950 points.
#64 overall is a trade value of 270 points
------------------------------------------
1220 points is between pick number 11 and pick number 12 overall.

We can get Eric Fisher without mortgaging the farm. And I also think we can still get Kevin Minter as well.

#48 overall is a trade value of 430 points
#79 (this years 3rd) is a trade value of 195 points
-------------------------------------------------
625 points gets you into the back end of round one

And who knows?..maybe it wont even take that much. Minter may actually be there early second round (picks 33-38)

Dee Dub
01-26-2013, 03:15 PM
I am content to see if we can trade up two or three spots to get Lane Johnson. He's going to be a good left tackle.

I am high on Johnson to but the difference right now between Fisher and him is big. Fisher can play immediate and perform at a high level. Not so sure Johnson is ready to go right now. Great upside as you point out but not so sure he is ready to go for a while.

BigRob
01-26-2013, 03:21 PM
I am high on Johnson to but the difference right now between Fisher and him is big. Fisher can play immediate and perform at a high level. Not so sure Johnson is ready to go right now. Great upside as you point out but not so sure he is ready to go for a while.

That's why I only trade up a few spots to get Johnson. I am getting the sneaky suspicion the Steelers will go for a true Left Tackle in the first round should one present itself.

There are really only three true first round left tackles that I see. Joeckle, Fisher, Johnson. They may all be gone by the time we pick.

The second question I have is whether we go for a player like Hankins or Jenkins if they are available at 17?

This is a tough draft to figure for the Steelers.

Dee Dub
01-26-2013, 03:30 PM
That's why I only trade up a few spots to get Johnson. I am getting the sneaky suspicion the Steelers will go for a true Left Tackle in the first round should one present itself.

There are really only three true first round left tackles that I see. Joeckle, Fisher, Johnson. They may all be gone by the time we pick.

The second question I have is whether we go for a player like Hankins or Jenkins if they are available at 17?

This is a tough draft to figure for the Steelers.

Another thing to consider is how many of the juniors are going to sky-rocket up the board after the combine and pro-days? Who knows maybe your guy Dion Jordan could fly up the board and cause some to drop a spot or two.

Mark my words. A QB or two is going to be picked in the top ten just because of the importance of the position and the fact teams are always willing to reach for them. You throw a Geno Smith, Mike Glennon, and maybe even a Matt Barkley into that mix and some one slides.

Keyplay1
01-26-2013, 04:48 PM
http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Dee Dub http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=546749#post546749)
The Steelers very well could have a boat load of draft picks next year (2014). With possible losses in free agency of Starks, Wallace, Foster, Lewis, Foote, and Mendenhall, this could net a very descent return in compensatory picks. Lewis, Wallace, and Starks could even bring back a relatively high one. With the possibility of having 9-12 picks next year, the Steelers could very easily trade away a second or third rounder next year if they wanted to move up and draft a player like Eric Fisher or even Chance Warmack.
Hopefully they see a guy they have ranked so highly they can't help but go and get.

Big Rob said: Otherwise I prefer them to do the opposite. Trade back and get a crap load of extra picks this year. There is no clear cut top of the draft, but it is very deep. I would love to see them move back once or twice and get a bunch of extra picks.

Then use those picks this year and in next years draft to get young in a hurry again.

---I also would prefer the trade down idea this year. But the reality is if there is any trading it would be up. Every year a number of mocks suggest the trade down idea and they usually are very good, but someone will post that TS [the Steelers] have never traded their 1st rd pick down.[some later rd picks yes but not a 1st rd pick]Not sure if that is true or not but i do believe it.

Also a bit surprised Dee Dub came up with Mock 3.0 prior to todays Senior Bowl game. I kind of liked the positions drafted in 2.0 OLB, WR, SS/FS.[in any order] I don't do mocks but I was thinking that it would okay to somehow come up with prior to the 3rd rd. 3 players as alternates to Terrance Williams, Ezekiel Ansah and Rambo. They were Markus Wheaton, Alex Okafor, and Eric Reid. That was just in case the other 3 were drafted just ahead of when the Steelers picked. :o A trade down might not be needed but a trade up in rd 2 might be. What does anyone think of those players. They are all ranked in the 40-50 range except Okafor who is once in a while in the top 25.[but not always]

btw: Had TS taken Bobby Wagner as Big Rob suggested last season as the alternate if Hightower was gone then this years draft would be a little simpler.

I just don't see TS letting Starks go.

Dee Dub
01-26-2013, 05:01 PM
http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Dee Dub http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=546749#post546749)
The Steelers very well could have a boat load of draft picks next year (2014). With possible losses in free agency of Starks, Wallace, Foster, Lewis, Foote, and Mendenhall, this could net a very descent return in compensatory picks. Lewis, Wallace, and Starks could even bring back a relatively high one. With the possibility of having 9-12 picks next year, the Steelers could very easily trade away a second or third rounder next year if they wanted to move up and draft a player like Eric Fisher or even Chance Warmack.
Hopefully they see a guy they have ranked so highly they can't help but go and get.

Big Rob said: Otherwise I prefer them to do the opposite. Trade back and get a crap load of extra picks this year. There is no clear cut top of the draft, but it is very deep. I would love to see them move back once or twice and get a bunch of extra picks.

Then use those picks this year and in next years draft to get young in a hurry again.

---I also would prefer the trade down idea this year. But the reality is if there is any trading it would be up. Every year a number of mocks suggest the trade down idea and they usually are very good, but someone will post that TS [the Steelers] have never traded their 1st rd pick down.[some later rd picks yes but not a 1st rd pick]Not sure if that is true or not but i do believe it.

Also a bit surprised Dee Dub came up with Mock 3.0 prior to todays Senior Bowl game. I kind of liked the positions drafted in 2.0 OLB, WR, SS/FS.[in any order] I don't do mocks but I was thinking that it would okay to somehow come up with prior to the 3rd rd. 3 players as alternates to Terrance Williams, Ezekiel Ansah and Rambo. They were Markus Wheaton, Alex Okafor, and Eric Reid. That was just in case the other 3 were drafted just ahead of when the Steelers picked. :o A trade down might not be needed but a trade up in rd 2 might be. What does anyone think of those players. They are all ranked in the 40-50 range except Okafor who is once in a while in the top 25.[but not always]

btw: Had TS taken Bobby Wagner as Big Rob suggested last season as the alternate if Hightower was gone then this years draft would be a little simpler.

I just don't see TS letting Starks go.

Think about this. The Steelers with compensatory picks are probably going to have 18-20 picks between now and next years draft. Trading down to add more picks is going to be a waste of some of those picks. No way do 20 plus draftees make the roster. It just doesn't happen.

RuthlessBurgher
01-26-2013, 05:04 PM
Every year a number of mocks suggest the trade down idea and they usually are very good, but someone will post that TS [the Steelers] have never traded their 1st rd pick down.[some later rd picks yes but not a 1st rd pick]Not sure if that is true or not but i do believe it.

In 2001, the Pittsburgh Steelers traded their first-round selection (16th overall, used to select Santana Moss) to the New York Jets for their first-round selection (19th overall, used to select Casey Hampton), their fourth-round selection (111th overall, used to select Mathias Nkwenti) and their sixth-round selection (181st overall, used to select Rodney Bailey).

Keyplay1
01-26-2013, 08:00 PM
In 2001, the Pittsburgh Steelers traded their first-round selection (16th overall, used to select Santana Moss) to the New York Jets for their first-round selection (19th overall, used to select Casey Hampton), their fourth-round selection (111th overall, used to select Mathias Nkwenti) and their sixth-round selection (181st overall, used to select Rodney Bailey).

Thought so! Now that you mention it someone always recalls that Hampton move. Same thing happened last year. Someone remembers it I don't. Ty for the reminder. It shows there is a precedent.

That was early Colbert. In 2000 he got Burress, then in 2001 Hampton and Kendrell Bell in rd 2. He added Jeff Hartings as a FA in 2001 and Farrior in 2002. These great players to go along with the rest of a decent draft led to a nice decade.

Something similar is needed now.

BigRob
01-26-2013, 09:06 PM
I dont think Fisher will go in the top 8. Teams are going to reach for QB's. They do it every year. Fisher I think is there at pick 12. And trading a second rounder next year with our #17 this year gets you there. And this is using the formula that the Steelers have the #64 overall pick next year. Meaning they win the Super Bowl next year. How many opposing team are thinking right now the Steelers win next years super bowl? Therefore the value of that pick may be even greater in their minds and possibly moves us up to 11 or 10.

#17 overall is a trade value of 950 points.
#64 overall is a trade value of 270 points
------------------------------------------
1220 points is between pick number 11 and pick number 12 overall.

We can get Eric Fisher without mortgaging the farm. And I also think we can still get Kevin Minter as well.

#48 overall is a trade value of 430 points
#79 (this years 3rd) is a trade value of 195 points
-------------------------------------------------
625 points gets you into the back end of round one

And who knows?..maybe it wont even take that much. Minter may actually be there early second round (picks 33-38)

If it actually worked out, Hooray! Unfortunately I don't think your right about Fisher.

Dee Dub
01-26-2013, 10:06 PM
If it actually worked out, Hooray! Unfortunately I don't think your right about Fisher.

At least 2 QB's are going top ten and maybe 3. Whether they deserve it or not is regardless. Just the way it is. Look at this. 5 out 6 so-called experts are projecting Eric Fisher to go 11th overall to San Diego. Well within range to move up and get.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1497615-2013-nfl-mock-draft-what-are-the-experts-projecting-in-the-first-round/page/12

Mel Kiper Jr.: Eric Fisher, Offensive Tackle, Central Michigan
Rob Rang: Eric Fisher, Offensive Tackle, Central Michigan
Matt Miller: Eric Fisher, Offensive Tackle, Central Michigan
Walter Football: Eric Fisher, Offensive Tackle, Central Michigan
Drafttek: Johnthan Banks, Cornerback, Mississippi State
My Mock: Eric Fisher, Offensive Tackle, Central Michigan

Keyplay1
01-27-2013, 04:10 AM
Keyplay1 said: I was thinking that it would okay to somehow come up with prior to the 3rd rd. 3 players as alternates to Terrance Williams, Ezekiel Ansah and Rambo. They were Markus Wheaton, Alex Okafor, and Eric Reid. That was just in case the other 3 were drafted just ahead of when the Steelers picked. :eek:

I just noticed. Eddy Lacy was missing. Uhh! No way that can happen. Last week all the threads were focused on how to get Lacy. No argument from me on that.

There was a story in yesterdays Trib that suggested Mendenhall was not finished as a Steeler. I did not believe it. TS are going to need a #1 back. However, it would be nice to see him running behind some different OL than he has. Are there any more of these college post season games left where some of these juniors coming out can be seen?