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Keyplay1
01-21-2013, 02:19 PM
It's not that the draft is not closely looked at. All fans are very interested in who the team picks and can't wait to see if they pan out. But for some casual fans, that's just about it. Wait until July Training Camp and the pre-season games and watch all the new players. [me too] But now with these message boards it is not hard to get a line on possible picks for the team and also a line on who the really future stars might be. Plus there is You Tube to further get a look at players mentioned. This really is making the Jan to Apr period very interesting. The only bad part is if the team doesn't get the player. But this year for me a new dimension was added. There was a thread last week started by STEELBLOOD which listed a number of players to watch for in the East West Shrine Game. This is of course just one of quite a few of these post season college all star type games which gives players of varying draft status the chance to showcase their skills. Next up is the Senior Bowl which is considered the top game of this type. This got me to thinking. Here are games [a half dozen or more] which gives everyone a chance to see just about every possible player compete and in the case of the pro teams, evaluate them for further use. Then there comes the Combine and more evaluation. Then all the teams have a Pro Day. More evaluation. Uhh! These players have been scrutinzied since they were junior high school kids, 4 years in HS, 4 years in college etc. Then comes the draft. Then how is it like say in 2006 Pittsburgh comes up with 1 25 Santonio Holmes WR Ohio State 3 83 Anthony Smith DB Syracuse 3 95 Willie Reid WR Florida State 4 131 Willie Colon T Hofstra 4 133 Orien Harris DT Miami (Fla.) 5 164 Omar Jacobs QB Bowling Green State 5 167 Charles Davis TE Purdue 6 201 Marvin Philip C California 7 240 Cedric Humes RB Virginia Tech Okay, toss out SH who is great and the only value pick there is Willie Colon. 4th rd pick. Capable starter for many years. One more example. 2008 1 23 Rashard Mendenhall RB Illinois 2 53 Limas Sweed WR Texas 3 88 Bruce Davis LB UCLA 4 130 Tony Hills T Texas 5 156 Dennis Dixon QB Oregon 6 188 Mike Humpal OLB Iowa 6 194 Ryan Mundy FS West Virginia Very possibly there will be none of these players here 2013. Maybe Mundy a 7th rd pick. Now to the point. It is absolutley not to be negative or critical about the teams drafts. It is only to point out how difficult it is to find true nfl calibre players. The Steelers actually do this better than anyone, yet as you can see the number of players who did not even make it at all are quite a few. But why? Why is the percentage of players nfl capable so low. Maybe it is the overall draft strategy? As I said earlier, the thread listing those players to watch in the Shrine game made me think. My draft strategy for this year is compile lists of only those players that perform well in these games.[plus their prior body of work] Screw the combine, screw the pro days screw the rankings etc. My opinion is the draft board should already be finalized at least 95% already. Only the character and integrity of the players on the list should now be double checked. It just seems like championship teams have a lot of smart, troublefree type players. But just out of curiousity, I am going to see how and/or if any of those players the Steelers drafted played in any of these post season games. And if they did how did they do. In other words were those players picked because of some pre-contrived listing of where they would be drafted said so. In other words does anyone really believe player ranked #273 is better for sure than player #397? Get real. Do you really believe anyone can grade these players 1 to 999 with any real accuracy? I don't. BTW: Where is the list of players to watch for in the Senior Bowl?

Keyplay1
01-21-2013, 02:31 PM
Hmm!:D The above post sort of got put all together automatically. Probably due to its length. That's okay. It does still deal with overall draft strategy though.

NW Steeler
01-21-2013, 02:51 PM
Hard to read, but those were 2 horrible drafts. Yeesh.

Keyplay1
01-21-2013, 03:29 PM
Hard to read, but those were 2 horrible drafts. Yeesh.

Come to think about it those were pretty bad drafts. I used them as examples because there were quite a few players there that never saw an nfl field. [A couple others that did but probably should not have]

But the point was all teams are missing on many players. So I am questioning the basic draft strategy. Just maybe too much emphasis is going on split second quicker players or someone lifts something a few more times etc.

Too bad about the jumble. It was all clear when I pasted the drafts from the Steeler page. But I did not preview the thing. It just eliminated all the paragraphs. Oh well. My bad. I have seen where other posters have split their posts but it did not occur to me.

To simplify the post the only point that could be agreed or disagreed with would be the final paragraph.

"As I said earlier, the thread listing those players to watch in the Shrine game made me think. My draft strategy for this year is compile lists of only those players that perform well in these games.[plus their prior body of work] Screw the combine, screw the pro days screw the rankings etc. My opinion is the draft board should already be finalized at least 95% already. Only the character and integrity of the players on the list should now be double checked. It just seems like championship teams have a lot of smart, troublefree type players."

NW Steeler
01-21-2013, 03:37 PM
Missing on some is one thing. Santonio caught a SB winning TD, Mendy never was what we thought he would be and Colon....meh. The rest was crap. Those drafts really have hurt our depth and viable roster turnover.

Dee Dub
01-21-2013, 03:53 PM
I am looking forward to seeing them all but here is a specific list that I will really be looking at....

OLB Eziekel Ansah
WR Terrence Williams
WR Markus Wheaton
WR Tavarres King
OT Kyle Long
OT DJ Fluker
DE Margus Hunt
OLB Alex Okafor
LB Khassem Greene
OLB Chase Thomas
CB Desmond Trufant
CB Jordan Poyer
FS Bacarri Rambo

Dee Dub
01-21-2013, 04:14 PM
Here some early notes/tid-bits from the Senior Bowl.

http://gbnreport.com/seniorbowlreport.htm

This one should be a concern...

HEAVIEST Player goes to Georgia DT JOHN JENKINS @ 359 and Alabama OT D.J. FLUKER who was a close second at 355.

Not sure you want your tackle to be at 355.

And this is a major WOW!!...

TALLEST Player is SMU DE MARGUS HUNT @ 6’8.2”

RuthlessBurgher
01-21-2013, 04:32 PM
TALLEST Player is SMU DE MARGUS HUNT @ 6’8.2”

Yeah, he's pretty tall.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_nUiaNvoZsR4/TC4AF8whCvI/AAAAAAAAAr4/IgGrNksek_I/s400/SMU+Margus+Hunt.jpg

Dee Dub
01-21-2013, 05:31 PM
Jordan Poyer and Desmond Trufant look real good. Both showed well in press and man to man coverage.

Dee Dub
01-21-2013, 05:42 PM
OT Eric Fisher looks like the real deal. One on one drills he is dominating. DE Datone Jones UCLA looks good as well. Quick first step.

Keyplay1
01-21-2013, 06:30 PM
I am looking forward to seeing them all but here is a specific list that I will really be looking at....

OLB Eziekel Ansah
WR Terrence Williams
WR Markus Wheaton
WR Tavarres King
OT Kyle Long
OT DJ Fluker
DE Margus Hunt
OLB Alex Okafor
LB Khassem Greene
OLB Chase Thomas
CB Desmond Trufant
CB Jordan Poyer
FS Bacarri Rambo

Will definitely be watching the game. Looking forward to seeing these players.

btw Dee Dub: Last year you posted a list of 9 players you thought were ready to play. This was besides the draft.

I did save the post. But, when I went to retreive it somehow it updated itself and was lost. Probably because the board was having some technical problems at that time. Now what I do is paint the screen and save the page as a picture. It works.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure most of those players did play well last season. Was Nigel Bradham one of them. I saw where he did become a starter and while he did not set the world on fire he was a solid contributor for the Bills.

NW Steeler said: "Those drafts really have hurt our depth and viable roster turnover."

I just erased a question I was going to ask. It was "Do you think it might have something to do with losing some guy named Modrak? who was the head Steeler Scout type guy a few years ago?" Wow! How time flies. I decided to check it out and that was way back in 1998?? I really thought it was just a couple years ago.

Anyway, talk about coincidences. While looking him up I just saw where he was appointed Director of BLESTO Scouting Org. TS use them maybe it will help.

Dee Dub
01-21-2013, 06:44 PM
Will definitely be watching the game. Looking forward to seeing these players.

btw Dee Dub: Last year you posted a list of 9 players you thought were ready to play. This was besides the draft.

I did save the post. But, when I went to retreive it somehow it updated itself and was lost. Probably because the board was having some technical problems at that time. Now what I do is paint the screen and save the page as a picture. It works.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure most of those players did play well last season. Was Nigel Bradham one of them. I saw where he did become a starter and while he did not set the world on fire he was a solid contributor for the Bills.

NW Steeler said: "Those drafts really have hurt our depth and viable roster turnover."

I just erased a question I was going to ask. It was "Do you think it might have something to do with losing some guy named Modrak? who was the head Steeler Scout type guy a few years ago?" Wow! How time flies. I decided to check it out and that was way back in 1998?? I really thought it was just a couple years ago.

Anyway, talk about coincidences. While looking him up I just saw where he was appointed Director of BLESTO Scouting Org. TS use them maybe it will help.

No Nigel Bradham would have been one that I missed. Can't take credit for that one. I was all over his teammate Cordy Glenn though wasnt I? :)

RuthlessBurgher
01-21-2013, 07:55 PM
I think Chadman may have been one of the guys who was high on Bradham, if memory serves.

Dee Dub
01-21-2013, 09:10 PM
I think Chadman may have been one of the guys who was high on Bradham, if memory serves.

Yeah I think you are right.

Keyplay1
01-22-2013, 07:59 AM
I am looking forward to seeing them all but here is a specific list that I will really be looking at....

OLB Eziekel Ansah
WR Terrence Williams
WR Markus Wheaton
WR Tavarres King
OT Kyle Long
OT DJ Fluker
DE Margus Hunt
OLB Alex Okafor
LB Khassem Greene
OLB Chase Thomas
CB Desmond Trufant
CB Jordan Poyer
FS Bacarri Rambo

It seems many of the above players are mentioned in most reports.

Pewter report:

n the 1-on-1 drills Georgia wide receiver Tavarres King started things off with a nice catch on Georgia safety Bacarri Rambo, who struggled on Monday.

Baylor wide receiver Terrence Williams made a great diving catch on his back on a rainbow of a pass from Oklahoma quarterback Landry Jones against Alford, who had tight coverage.

Stanford linebacker Chase Thomas read Manuel’s eyes on the next play and jumped up to swat down a pass across the middle.

from 5th down blog/ NY Times
One of the interesting aspects of practice reports is the range of observations that multiple writers can have of a player.

WR Markus Wheaton
Waldman: I thought Wheaton was the star among the skill players today. It’s only the first day of practice, so it doesn’t mean a ton, but I thought he was really sharp with his routes and releases. He uses his hands and feet well for a college player and had no problem beating corners in drills and scrimmage situations. He even forced one defender to tackle him on an out and up.
Lammey: Wheaton also showed the ability to adjust to poorly-thrown passes, which is a must to become an effective N.F.L. starter. Early in practice he caught a pass that was high and behind him. Most would’ve dropped the ball, but Wheaton snared it and then turned up the field quickly to gain more yards after the catch. On deep passes he showed great ball tracking ability and was able to bring in passes over his shoulder in stride.
Waldman: Late in practice, Wheaton turned back to a ball placed behind him on a deep streak and made a leaping catch through contact from the defender and maintained possession after landing on his back. If he continues this level of play this week, watch out.

---Many more reports on Draft Daddy's Blog: There is a lengthy report on the battle between Long and Okafor. Somewhat of a draw. Maybe Okafor got the edge. But overall both did very well vs everyone else.

Everyone has a view on Ansah. Hard to decipher. Somewhat mixed.

Important Question for Dee Dub: You have Okafor listed as an OLB. They have him as a DE. Is he a possible tweener. Reason I ask. This was a player that was extremely impressive. Trying to decipher that scout talk that was the impression I got.

Both CB's also got favorable reports.

BigRob
01-22-2013, 02:39 PM
Here some early notes/tid-bits from the Senior Bowl.

http://gbnreport.com/seniorbowlreport.htm

This one should be a concern...

HEAVIEST Player goes to Georgia DT JOHN JENKINS @ 359 and Alabama OTD.J. FLUKER who was a close second at 355.

Not sure you want your tackle to be at 355.

And this is a major WOW!!...

TALLEST Player is SMU DE MARGUS HUNT @ 6’8.2”

I agree the weight is an issue at 360lbs, but can he maintain it? He is extremely athletic for a big guy, but his weight holds him back. He lacks the stamina to put out full effort every down he plays.

Gotta say the safety depth in the draft this year is huge.

Chadman
01-22-2013, 05:57 PM
I think Chadman may have been one of the guys who was high on Bradham, if memory serves.

Just imagine of Bradham & Timmons were in the middle for the Steelers..... sigh...

Chadman
01-22-2013, 06:08 PM
Here's a question along the lines of the OP...

How is it that a player can look reasonably good, good enough to start for his team in a pretty vital position, for a number of seasons... but then stinks it up in these showcase games & looks vastly inferior to guys that he looked better than their whole career?

Point in case- when Chadman was watching film on Mike Gillislee out of Florida (He's pretty decent, by the way), he noticed that one guy that was blocking downfield for him, opening holes, consistantly, was his LT Xavier Nixon. Nixon looked mobile, he looked strong. Yet at Senior Bowl practice he's reported to be slow, not very good laterally & couldn't hold up strength-wise.

Pretty much the opposite of everything we see on (admittedly, limited) tape.

Just how many players are good/bad depending on the scheme they play in college?

Now if you take that question, and add it to the 'how do teams miss on talent after evaluating players for x amount of years'.... you realise that there are so many variables to account for..

BigRob
01-22-2013, 06:55 PM
No Nigel Bradham would have been one that I missed. Can't take credit for that one. I was all over his teammate Cordy Glenn though wasnt I? :)

??? Glenn was Georgia and Bradham was FSU. Unless you mean at the Senior Bowl.



Sorry I see you meant the Bills.

Dee Dub
01-22-2013, 10:21 PM
??? Glenn was Georgia and Bradham was FSU. Unless you mean at the Senior Bowl.



Sorry I see you meant the Bills.

Right..they are now teammates on the Bills.

Dee Dub
01-23-2013, 01:25 AM
Important Question for Dee Dub: You have Okafor listed as an OLB. They have him as a DE. Is he a possible tweener. Reason I ask. This was a player that was extremely impressive. Trying to decipher that scout talk that was the impression I got.

I think you mean Eziekel Ansah from my signature? Either way both Ansah and Okafor could play OLB in a 3-4. I wouldnt call Ansah a tweener as he is over 270 and this past year he played just about every position on the D-front. Okafor weighed in a 261. At 6 ft 5 he's a little light for the traditional 4-3 DE but could play either or.