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View Full Version : Somebody is going to get a star quarterback.



Dee Dub
01-19-2013, 02:45 PM
..and a lot of teams are going to kick themselves for passing on him. I've heard all the negative talk about Matt Barkley, how his stock has dropped, how he like other recent USC quarterbacks aren't worth the investment And how because he is a USC quarterback he has to be like Mark Sanchez or Matt Leinert. And how his hype is more than his talent. I personally do not believe this. I've seen every single game Matt Barkley has played. I'll start by saying, no he isn't a top 5 pick nor in the class of talents like Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning coming out of Tennessee. But I believe he is an above average QB and has star qualities. One who could, if put in the right situation, with a solid team around him, could win in the NFL and be an elite QB. Most of the talk about Barkley's stock dropping is based on what? His individual performance? Not hardly. It is primarily for the fact that he and his team did not meet expectations. Being ranked as the #1 overall team coming into this past season and a favorite to win the National Championship and then falling as hard as the Trojans did (like no other pre-season #1 ranked team ever), is to me the basis for most of the talk about his stock dropping. Let's take a real look at Barkley and his individual performance over the 4 years at USC. They tell a much different story.

Matt Barkley's career stats.

12, 327 pass yards--116 TD's--48 INT's--64.1 career completion percentage--148.7 career QBR--sacked only 55 times in 4 years.

Now let's look beyond the numbers.

His arm is not John Elway strong but he does have an above average throwing arm that is very accurate.

4 years starter
Started as a true freshman
Played in a pro style offense that translate to the NFL.
Played on a team that usually had no defense
Played on a team that was penalized for NCAA violations that resulted in a loss of scholarships. Scholarships that cost his team talent and depth.
Played on a team that really never had a consistent running attack

And here is the big thing for me. In 4 years, Matt Barkley almost always had his team in a position to win. In 53 career starts only 5 times did he really play poor football. And all but those 5 games he had his team in a position to win. Think about that. In 4 years he played poorly only 5 times.

Now, let me finish this by saying this has nothing to do with my thread about "Ben traded to the Arizona Cardinals"...personally as I said in that thread I wouldn't trade Ben. But I really think people are wrong about Matt Barkley. This kid has a lot of poise and has been groomed for a long time to be a quarterback And he also has a lot of skills to go with it.

Somebody is going to get a star quarterback He is far better than Mark Sanchez. And much more ready for the NFL.

SidSmythe
01-19-2013, 02:59 PM
BUT is he as dedicated at Tom Brady and Peyton Manning.
Or is he like Mark Sanchez and relies on his natural ability that was good enough to get him thru college, but never improved to be great in the NFL??

Dee Dub
01-19-2013, 03:06 PM
BUT is he as dedicated at Tom Brady and Peyton Manning.
Or is he like Mark Sanchez and relies on his natural ability that was good enough to get him thru college, but never improved to be great in the NFL??

Are you kidding me? This kid has been dedicated for the past 8 years. All through his years at Mater Dei and at SC. One of the big reasons Barkley returned for his senior year was because he was dedicated. Dedicated to finishing what he started at SC. Dedicated to improving himself as a QB.

Do you remember the fact that Sanchez only really had one season as a starter at USC?

SDSteel1
01-19-2013, 03:08 PM
So he is basically Todd Marinovich without the addictions and baggage. If that's the case I take him.

Dee Dub
01-19-2013, 03:18 PM
So he is basically Todd Marinovich without the addictions and baggage. If that's the case I take him. How many QB's knowing they are probably a top 10 pick with a boat load of money waiting for them pass on it to go back and finish what they started? One who is dedicated to improving themselves as a player and as a human being. This kids character is off the charts. Just look at what he did the past off-season in Haiti.

feltdizz
01-19-2013, 03:19 PM
Uhhh...I wouldn't take a chance on him. There was a fight after the USC bowl loss to GT where the young players questioned the Senior leadership of the team. USC is a tricky school because they are usually loaded with talent. I didn't watch a lot of them this year but the games I viewed didn't impress me at all. He's gotten worse IMO... No growth.

Dub... I know you watch a ton of college ball but I don't know man... You like some funny dudes. I wouldn't touch him.

Mister Pittsburgh
01-19-2013, 03:24 PM
Maybe he will be there in the 2nd. Him or a Tyler Wilson. Someone to groom finally vs the old injury prone guys we have.

Dee Dub
01-19-2013, 03:30 PM
Uhhh...I wouldn't take a chance on him. There was a fight after the USC bowl loss to GT where the young players questioned the Senior leadership of the team. USC is a tricky school because they are usually loaded with talent. I didn't watch a lot of them this year but the games I viewed didn't impress me at all. He's gotten worse IMO... No growth.

Dub... I know you watch a ton of college ball but I don't know man... You like some funny dudes. I wouldn't touch him.

Uhhhhhhhhh..that fight was based on the poor performance that the USC team just displayed in that bowl game. A game in which Barkley did not play. Barkley's leadership was not available for that game.

Did you see the USC defense this year? That lack of leadership had a lot to do with that poor defense.

Dee Dub
01-19-2013, 03:31 PM
Maybe he will be there in the 2nd. Him or a Tyler Wilson. Someone to groom finally vs the old injury prone guys we have.

I doubt it. He is still a first round pick.

Dee Dub
01-19-2013, 03:32 PM
Uhhh...I wouldn't take a chance on him. There was a fight after the USC bowl loss to GT where the young players questioned the Senior leadership of the team. USC is a tricky school because they are usually loaded with talent. I didn't watch a lot of them this year but the games I viewed didn't impress me at all. He's gotten worse IMO... No growth.

Dub... I know you watch a ton of college ball but I don't know man... You like some funny dudes. I wouldn't touch him.

felt, tell us why you wouldn't touch him? Be specific. And make it about Barkley not his team.

Dee Dub
01-19-2013, 03:35 PM
Uhhh...I wouldn't take a chance on him. There was a fight after the USC bowl loss to GT where the young players questioned the Senior leadership of the team. USC is a tricky school because they are usually loaded with talent. I didn't watch a lot of them this year but the games I viewed didn't impress me at all. He's gotten worse IMO... No growth.

Dub... I know you watch a ton of college ball but I don't know man... You like some funny dudes. I wouldn't touch him.

From Gil Brandt...

2) Matt Barkley, USC: Once considered a potential No. 1 overall pick, Barkley's stock has taken quite a fall. That said, he was a four-year starter for a fine program, enjoying a great deal of success. And he brings notable leadership qualities, having served three years as a team captain.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap1000000126798/article/luke-joeckel-chance-warmack-head-crop-of-top-prospects

Shoe
01-19-2013, 03:51 PM
felt, tell us why you wouldn't touch him? Be specific. And make it about Barkley not his team.

I think there are/will be durability questions with him. I also think that he's not a natural leader in the on-field sense. (I think off-the-field, he is a fine leader with his actions--hard-work, good guy, etc.) I think he is a product more of manufacturing (which is not to say that all QBs aren't) than he is of innate QB talent. I do think he is pro-ready in the sense of being able to play right away. But there are obvious physical limitations (average speed/escapability, good-enough arm strength) that will hold him back at the next level.

That all being said, I do appreciate your thread Dee Dub, because I do think he is being pushed down the draft board to a point where he's good value. I don't think good value is anywhere until probably the back half of the first round though.

hawaiiansteel
01-19-2013, 03:56 PM
Matt Barkley made a big mistake not coming out for last year's draft.

but then again, the Cleveland Browns may have drafted him at #4 so maybe Barkley was smart for staying in school for another year...:D

feltdizz
01-19-2013, 05:08 PM
A player questioned why Barkley didn't play and questioned the Senior leadership. They lost more than a bowl game... They were ranked #1 and stunk the place up.

As far as Barkley... I don't think he has IT and didn't elevate his play when needed. He isn't mobile... Doesn't have a strong arm and his decision making is suspect. He also doesn't have any big wins lately. Down the stretch he faded, threw a ton of picks vs good competition and had an injury. I would take him as a back up but he isn't going to be a star.

feltdizz
01-19-2013, 05:20 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Arizona picked him up but I doubt they would after Leinart. I just don't see a star.

lloydroid
01-19-2013, 05:48 PM
Maybe he will be there in the 2nd. Him or a Tyler Wilson. Someone to groom finally vs the old injury prone guys we have.

Taking a QB in the 2nd, with a team as many holes as we have, would be insane. I wouldn't go with a QB until the 6th or 7th or even with an undrafted free agent. We cannot continue with our old dudes, to that, I agree. But we need RB, LB, S, WR and could even use OL help and perhaps NT. How on earth could we use a 2nd for a QB while we have a top 11 QB already on the roster? No way.

lloydroid
01-19-2013, 05:49 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Arizona picked him up but I doubt they would after Leinart. I just don't see a star.

Me neither. I think he will end up as a back up.

lloydroid
01-19-2013, 05:51 PM
A player questioned why Barkley didn't play and questioned the Senior leadership. They lost more than a bowl game... They were ranked #1 and stunk the place up.

As far as Barkley... I don't think he has IT and didn't elevate his play when needed. He isn't mobile... Doesn't have a strong arm and his decision making is suspect. He also doesn't have any big wins lately. Down the stretch he faded, threw a ton of picks vs good competition and had an injury. I would take him as a back up but he isn't going to be a star.

Exactly right. He has more of a "timing" arm than a strong one, ala Colt McCoy. Remember watching Colt play for Cle? He never even attempts passes down the field and that makes him easy to defend when you don't have to really defend the entire field.

Sugar
01-19-2013, 06:20 PM
I don't watch amateur ball as much, but I've been very impressed by Barkley when I've seen him. He's the kind of guy I would love to see as a Steeler though I'm fairly sure it won't happen. Of course, I didn't think Ben would be a Steeler either.

Dee Dub
01-19-2013, 07:00 PM
A player questioned why Barkley didn't play and questioned the Senior leadership. They lost more than a bowl game... They were ranked #1 and stunk the place up.

As far as Barkley... I don't think he has IT and didn't elevate his play when needed. He isn't mobile... Doesn't have a strong arm and his decision making is suspect. He also doesn't have any big wins lately. Down the stretch he faded, threw a ton of picks vs good competition and had an injury. I would take him as a back up but he isn't going to be a star.


Ok got it. I didnt think you would be able to give anything substantial on why you wouldn't take a chance on him. And you are 100% wrong about not elevating when needed. We have a 4 year period in which he lit it up stat-wise which show differently. And dont give me that garbage about winning big games. His defense over the past couple of years is what had more to do with that than him. And as far as you saying his decision making is suspect that is straight garbage too. His low number of picks, low amount of times being sacked, high completion percentage, and the amount of TD's he threw, say differently. That all says he made way more good decisions than suspect one.

But I get it. You wouldn't be you if you didn't say stuff like this. ;)

Dee Dub
01-19-2013, 07:02 PM
Exactly right. He has more of a "timing" arm than a strong one, ala Colt McCoy. Remember watching Colt play for Cle? He never even attempts passes down the field and that makes him easy to defend when you don't have to really defend the entire field.

Barkley didnt attempt passes down the field....really? Wow..I'm not even going to go there. You obviously never really saw much of Matt Barkley play.

feltdizz
01-19-2013, 08:22 PM
Ok got it. I didnt think you would be able to give anything substantial on why you wouldn't take a chance on him. And you are 100% wrong about not elevating when needed. We have a 4 year period in which he lit it up stat-wise which show differently. And dont give me that garbage about winning big games. His defense over the past couple of years is what had more to do with that than him. And as far as you saying his decision making is suspect that is straight garbage too. His low number of picks, low amount of times being sacked, high completion percentage, and the amount of TD's he threw, say differently. That all says he made way more good decisions than suspect one.

But I get it. You wouldn't be you if you didn't say stuff like this. ;)

LOL... once again you get emotional when presented with facts. Lost 3 of the last 4 games and had 9 picks during that stretch and then he gets hurt. Not a good way to end a college career. So he was on a team with bad defense... sounds like most Pac 12 or Big 12 teams. NFL scouts dont care about big stats vs scrubs. They look at players vs good teams to see how they play under preseure.

Cant believe you are using the excuse of bad defense for his slide.. its college, that never stopped other QBs from getting a few quality wins vs good teams.... and we arent talking about Mizzou or Arizona... this is USC and they had tons of talent on offense.

Dee Dub
01-19-2013, 08:45 PM
LOL... once again you get emotional when presented with facts. Lost 3 of the last 4 games and had 9 picks during that stretch and then he gets hurt. Not a good way to end a college career. So he was on a team with bad defense... sounds like most Pac 12 or Big 12 teams. NFL scouts dont care about big stats vs scrubs. They look at players vs good teams to see how they play under preseure.

Cant believe you are using the excuse of bad defense for his slide.. its college, that never stopped other QBs from getting a few quality wins vs good teams.... and we arent talking about Mizzou or Arizona... this is USC and they had tons of talent on offense.

You are not telling the whole story in those last 4 games he played. His defense gave up 39, 62, 38, and 38 points. He was behind a lot in those games. And you forget to mention he also threw 14 TD's passes and 1400 yards in those 4 games. But you are not interested in the whole story. Just enough to discredit someone you don't like.

feltdizz
01-19-2013, 10:00 PM
You are not telling the whole story in those last 4 games he played. His defense gave up 39, 62, 38, and 38 points. He was behind a lot in those games. And you forget to mention he also threw 14 TD's passes and 1400 yards in those 4 games. But you are not interested in the whole story. Just enough to discredit someone you don't like.

You asked why I dont think he wil he a star... did you really think I would throw out a bunch of positives and slobber over the guy to prove my point? I've seen QB's throw for 500 yards in a game but it doesn't mean they will be stars in the NFL. Gino Smith went crazy the first 4 ganes but IMO he won't be a star in the NFL.

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/1459077-matt-barkley-breaking-down-2013-nfl-draft-prospects-draft-stock

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/17/could-matt-barkleys-draft-stock-be-slipping/

Arm strength and accuracy downfield is an issue.. and completing 16 of 23 passes at or behind the line of scrimmiage vs Syracuse is embarrasing.

supersteeler
01-19-2013, 10:15 PM
In this paticular draft I don't see any QB's that are as good as the ones in the last two drafts, there is a boatload of T martins, but no Tom Brady's.

Now, there could be a sleeper but its pretty much a guess on which QB in this draft could be a starter in the NFL.

Dee Dub
01-19-2013, 11:01 PM
....Arm strength and accuracy downfield is an issue..

You just described 80% of the QB's in the NFL. Maybe you should go back and re-read my initial post. I said he was not in the class of the Andrew Lucks's or the Peyton Manning's. Those are top of the top. Barkley still has a skill set and intangibles that in the "right" system could still produce at a high level. If you will recall, Joe Montana's arm strength and accuracy down field were an issue as well.



and completing 16 of 23 passes at or behind the line of scrimmiage vs Syracuse is embarrasing.

That's Lane Kiffen's offense. Has nothing to do with Barkley. He didn't call the plays. How is that an embarrassment on Barkley?

Dee Dub
01-19-2013, 11:03 PM
In this paticular draft I don't see any QB's that are as good as the ones in the last two drafts....

No offense but you are stating the obvious...and that has nothing to do with this thread. I am not trying to make Barkley out to be in that class (Luck, RGIII).

feltdizz
01-20-2013, 01:20 AM
No offense but you are stating the obvious...and that has nothing to do with this thread. I am not trying to make Barkley out to be in that class (Luck, RGIII).


What class is he in? Schaub, Dalton, Freeman? You said he was a star and teams would kick themselves for passing him up.

Dee Dub
01-20-2013, 02:09 AM
What class is he in? Schaub, Dalton, Freeman? You said he was a star and teams would kick themselves for passing him up.

What I said was,"I believe he is an above average QB and has star qualities. One who could, if put in the right situation, with a solid team around him, could win in the NFL and be an elite QB."

You are a funny guy felt. You try and discredit Barkley by using what you call are facts (stats), yet only tell half the story. And then say you can't go by stats to grade him. How funny.

feltdizz
01-20-2013, 10:08 AM
What I said was,"I believe he is an above average QB and has star qualities. One who could, if put in the right situation, with a solid team around him, could win in the NFL and be an elite QB."

You are a funny guy felt. You try and discredit Barkley by using what you call are facts (stats), yet only tell half the story. And then say you can't go by stats to grade him. How funny.

Stats are part of the process... everyone knows that but visually he didnt impress me this year. He is a Landry Jones type of player, good but not greqt and faded when he was needed the most.

What about the reports of his horrible accuracy downfield? His hanging passes? Average physical skills? He neede the perfect surrounded to succeed IMO and that rarely happens in the NFL.

feltdizz
01-20-2013, 10:15 AM
What does a Barkley do really well? What are his positives besides playing 4 years? Rocket arm? Putting the team on his back? Great decision making? Ability to create when the play breaks down?

IMO his best quality was throwing to NFL talent...

Shawn
01-20-2013, 12:37 PM
I don't believe he will ever be a quality starter in this league.

pfelix73
01-20-2013, 12:46 PM
You might be right Dee Dub. Time will tell. I have a feeling that after Mark Sanchez and Matt Leinert, some of these QB's coming out of USC might get the cold shoulder especially from fans around the league, just because of what LEinert and Sanchez has done in the NFL. And that is a shame. He's already labeled as such.

feltdizz
01-20-2013, 02:21 PM
You might be right Dee Dub. Time will tell. I have a feeling that after Mark Sanchez and Matt Leinert, some of these QB's coming out of USC might get the cold shoulder especially from fans around the league, just because of what LEinert and Sanchez has done in the NFL. And that is a shame. He's already labeled as such.

It may not be fair but its a legit concern. Its not like he is coming out after a monster season with Heisman votes, a bowl win and a strong finish. His career at USC started out strong but he had a major slide down the stretch and an injured throwing shoulder. Can't blame people for being a little hesitant...