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supersteeler
01-19-2013, 07:37 AM
We discussed a fair amount of prospects, and positions the Steelers might draft. We also know we could use help in several positions plus considered the Steelers might draft the BPA.
According to our poll here OLB seems to be our greatest need and I wouldn't argue with that but I have another take and ask you if it makes any sense to you.

We could draft a safety and be set for the future, an OLB, WR,RB and get help now but I have another thought.


I'm thinking which one player that could possibly make one area of our team not only better it could make it dominate in the future. I'm thinking it would help us right now too, plus the future. We can debate which side of the ball needs more help but for me when you struggle to score points it begs for help to correct it.

I've always thought for any offense to work well you need a QB first which we have, then you need a O-line to protect him and blockers who can make even an average back look good. It all goes hand and hand with a strong O-line, a entire offense can feed off that.


Just imagin if we drafted Chance Warmack in our first pick. We would have the following O-line in place as projected with Starks , Foster, and Colon all leaving.


LT MIKE ADAMS



LG CHANCE WARMACK *



C POUNCEY*



RG DECASTRO*



RT GILBERT


I would think the interior of that line could be dominate, help our run game and improve the offense as a whole, the only question is if Adams or Gilbert could play that LT position at least decent.

My original pick was NT, but we have 3 potential players for that position with the addition of Fangupo. If we draft an OLB, chances are he won't start as Woodley and Worlids would be the starters if Harrison leaves. If we draft a Safety he too wouldn't start because of Troy and Clark.

The only positions I see a #1 pick start is LG or RB, out of the two I want the LG first so our backs have the blockers up front. I know we went O-line last season with our picks but now we should solidify it and make it a strong point of our team.
I'm tired of seeing Ben with an average line, lets give him what most playoff teams have....a good O-line.

About three years ago the 49ers weren't that good offensively, they had a good D, but struggled until they drafted help on their O-line. Today, they have 3 PRO BOWLERS who start on that line who are all coming together now.


O-LINE!

Sugar
01-19-2013, 12:19 PM
How about TE? He can help protect Ben but can also be a weapon. The fact that the health of our Heath is questionable for the start of the year only makes it that much more compelling to me. Zach Ertz should be available when we pick from what I've read. He has also played alongside David DeCastro, so you would think there would be some kind of bonus there as well.

raycafan
01-19-2013, 01:04 PM
I don't follow college ball that close. Plus the fact that Miller is probably my favorite Steeler at this point. But who are some play making TE's in the college ranks that could make an impact?

Dee Dub
01-19-2013, 02:11 PM
supersteeler, that is all great, but how do you propose the Steelers draft Chance Warmack? They can't do it at number 17. He will be long off the board by then. I think it would be a better discussion on how we obtain him instead of fantasizing about how we would look if we had him. You're on on the clock, chief.

RuthlessBurgher
01-19-2013, 02:37 PM
I don't follow college ball that close. Plus the fact that Miller is probably my favorite Steeler at this point. But who are some play making TE's in the college ranks that could make an impact?

The two best in this draft are Notre Dame's Tyler Eifert and Stanford's Zach Ertz. Both are 6'6" 250 lbs. They are both rated in the late 1st, early 2nd area, though, meaning that neither one of them will be the BPA at #17, and neither of them should fall as far as #48 either. The only way that I see us ending up with one of these guys is via a trade-down scenario in which we land another valuable day two pick.

SS Laser
01-19-2013, 02:38 PM
supersteeler, that is all great, but how do you propose the Steelers draft Chance Warmack? They can't do it at number 17. He will be long off the board by then. I think it would be a better discussion on how we obtain him instead of fantasizing about how we would look if we had him. You're on on the clock, chief.

Please Dub, Just like Decastro would not be there for us at what 24. The Draft is different now with the rookie wages. 2nd year in and everyone has to get used to the "new" system. 8 new coaches throw a wrench into it also. Is it also 9 new GM's? Who would have put money on Seattle's pick last year? Since the 08 draft it seems things have changed. Players that are rated high in the sports/nfl media are falling because some teams take big chances on players or the back round info is more looked at then the past. What kind of effect does all the internet stuff of players show teams? I for one am glad I just have fun with mock drafts because it is only that anymore. For fun.

Dee Dub
01-19-2013, 02:50 PM
Please Dub, Just like Decastro would not be there for us at what 24. The Draft is different now with the rookie wages. 2nd year in and everyone has to get used to the "new" system. 8 new coaches throw a wrench into it also. Is it also 9 new GM's? Who would have put money on Seattle's pick last year? Since the 08 draft it seems things have changed. Players that are rated high in the sports/nfl media are falling because some teams take big chances on players or the back round info is more looked at then the past. What kind of effect does all the internet stuff of players show teams? I for one am glad I just have fun with mock drafts because it is only that anymore. For fun.

But DeCastro was never rated as one of the top 3 players in his draft class. Warmack is. Big difference. Warmack will be long gone before pick number 17.

hawaiiansteel
01-19-2013, 03:05 PM
Walter Football has Warmack being drafted by the Rams at #16 in their latest mock draft, one spot ahead of us.

Dee Dub
01-19-2013, 03:10 PM
Walter Football has Warmack being drafted by the Rams at #16 in their latest mock draft, one spot ahead of us.

And who is Walter? Yes a fan of football. Not a professional scout. Look, Warmack is an elite guard. Not just a first round pick. He is a dominator. I realize things could happen but I doubt very seriously if he makes it out of the top 10. Scouts Inc. has him rated #3 overall and being selected by the Cardinals at #7.

SS Laser
01-19-2013, 03:13 PM
But DeCastro was never rated as one of the top 3 players in his draft class. Warmack is. Big difference. Warmack will be long gone before pick number 17.

We will see. I have not seen him rated in the top 3? Things have changed and I am sticking with that. Team grades seem to be much different then the media anymore. Were was Decastro rated the day before the draft? How far did he fall really? The projections are much harder now I think. But I don't think other teams will pass on Warmack. So I agree he will not be there at 17 as of today. But it will be close and things could change from now till draft day. If he is drafted before 17 I think he maybe the highest guard pick in the last 13 years. History is not on his side but things have changed.

Dee Dub
01-19-2013, 03:27 PM
We will see. I have not seen him rated in the top 3? Things have changed and I am sticking with that. Team grades seem to be much different then the media anymore. Were was Decastro rated the day before the draft? How far did he fall really? The projections are much harder now I think. But I don't think other teams will pass on Warmack. So I agree he will not be there at 17 as of today. But it will be close and things could change from now till draft day. If he is drafted before 17 I think he maybe the highest guard pick in the last 13 years. History is not on his side but things have changed.

Well then you haven't paid much attention. Almost everyone has him rated that high.

SCOUTS INC.'S TOP 32


Player
Pos.
School
Grade




1. Star Lotulelei (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/29237)
DT
Utah
96


2. Damontre Moore (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/30227/damontre-moore)*
DE
Texas A&M
96


3. Chance Warmack (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/29233)
G
Alabama
96




http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2013

http://gbnreport.com/top100.html

And from Gil Brandt, ex-NFL GM/Director of Scouting....

3) Chance Warmack, OG, Alabama: The last guard to be taken with a top-10 draft pick was Chris Naeole, selected 10th overall by the New Orleans Saints (http://www.nfl.com/teams/neworleanssaints/profile?team=NO) in 1997. However, guards are becoming more important, and Warmack, who's strong in both pass protection and run blocking, projects as a 15-year player in the NFL.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap1000000126798/article/luke-joeckel-chance-warmack-head-crop-of-top-prospects

SS Laser
01-19-2013, 03:38 PM
Thanks for the links. I must check the wrong draft sites. I also had a link saved that had some of the best mock guys ranked and who won there mock contest out of the media (big names) for that year but can not find it now. Link must be broken? I think Walter did ok with his pick % wise. But can not confirm yet. Edit: it was the huddle report and the page is broken.
www.thehuddlereport.com/Free/ (http://www.thehuddlereport.com/Free/)mockdraftscoring.shtml

Here is the link that works: http://www.thehuddlereport.com/index/mockdraftscores.shtml
And it was not Walter I was thinking of but Scott wright of draftcountdown. Which he has Warmack at 5 overall rank. And has him going 10th to Tenn. Titans.

hawaiiansteel
01-19-2013, 03:54 PM
Mel Kiper Jr. has Warmack going #7 overall to the Arizona Cardinals.

lloydroid
01-19-2013, 03:57 PM
The jury is still out on Adams and Gilbert. We really don't know if either can play OT very well. I am really concerned that they need to bring back Starks and HOPE that between the other two that one can play RT. (Plus, we need an extra body because we kNOW we will have injuries.

supersteeler
01-19-2013, 04:05 PM
supersteeler, that is all great, but how do you propose the Steelers draft Chance Warmack? They can't do it at number 17. He will be long off the board by then. I think it would be a better discussion on how we obtain him instead of fantasizing about how we would look if we had him. You're on on the clock, chief.

Usually when teams draft in the higher rounds for O-linemen they are looking for Tackles especially LT's that seem to be a premium position on the line. In this paticular draft we may still have a shot at Warmack who in my mind would make that interior of our line dominate. My point in this was to see if there was an area of our team that we could mazimize it to become dominate.

From what I witnessed over the last several years either injuries or not having the top tier linemen effected our offense both in passing and especially running the football. Pouncey is in the top tier, Decastro is projected to be top tier and Starks IMO was better than average but not top tier in that position. Those three were our best linemen, and Starks was consistent and never left the field but the Steelers don't look to keep him unfortunately.

Big Ben is our best chance to regain a championship team, he's in his prime. The Steelers need to surround him with the best line possible and the rest of that offense will work even without Mendy and Wallace.
When our line was healthy even with the players we had they played well as we seen Ben have a damn good season early on, now think if we add a dominate Guard to our line how good it could be at least in the run game where we need it.

For me, if I'm an owner and want to build a great team I start with a QB, then try and get the best players possible on both lines offense and defense. When you have dominate people up front you can get by with above average players like WR, RB, that line will make them have more success.

Now, here is my question to you guys, if Warmack is there when we pick would you select him? I want our interior line to be dominate so I would take him over any other position. For sure OLB is a great need but who comes in here to dominate day one with Woodley and Worlids starting? Pardon the pun, but I'll take my chance on CHANCE!


This is what Chance could do for our run game...http://i.turner.ncaa.com/dr/ncaa/ncaa/release/sites/default/files/images/UA-Chance-Warmack-G-12-Split-photo.jpg

hawaiiansteel
01-19-2013, 04:14 PM
if Warmack were still there at #17 I would be all for drafting him, especially since both Colon and Foster may be gone.

Sugar
01-19-2013, 07:49 PM
if Warmack were still there at #17 I would be all for drafting him, especially since both Colon and Foster may be gone.

From what I'm reading, that would fall into the "happy accident" category. Kind of like DeCastro last year.

LordVile
01-19-2013, 08:07 PM
If WARMACK is there, I want him.. .. Lets get an ELITE OLINE for big ben and see what he can really do and what this offense can do.. Then one way or another there won't be any excuses.. Protect BB, and get that damn run game going..

Warmack in the 1st.. straight up..

supersteeler
01-19-2013, 08:17 PM
If WARMACK is there, I want him.. .. Lets get an ELITE OLINE for big ben and see what he can really do and what this offense can do.. Then one way or another there won't be any excuses.. Protect BB, and get that damn run game going..

Warmack in the 1st.. straight up..


I agree 100%, and I still believe we have a shot to get him as draft boards differ on what round he will go. The thing is will the Steelers take him? *** Ben needs Dominate people up front***



22 St Louis
Chance Warmack
Alabama
OG
Reach/Value: +7 Height:
6'3"
Weight:
320 Alternate Pick #1
Barrett Jones
Alternate Pick #2
Giovani Bernard
Chance Warmack takes the place of Jonathan Cooper in this spot for the Rams in the new simulation. Warmack and Cooper are very similar in ability and accolades, with the exception that Warmack has 4 other potential first round lineman around him and the Rams were burned not so long ago by an ex-Alabama lineman (Alex Barron). Jeff Fisher has never in the past taken an offensive lineman anywhere in the 1st round, and he is unlikely to look very deep into Rams draft history either. Those things being known, the Rams greatest need here is on the defense at Linebacker. Should Fisher forego his history and pick an offensive lineman in the first round, I am sure Chance Warmack is likely to be the name called. I believe, however, that Jeff Fisher will go with need and defense with someone like Barkevious Mingo of LSU.

LordVile
01-19-2013, 08:46 PM
If he is there we have to take him.. BPA.. forget Te'o.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1482977-steelers-scouting-report-alabama-guard-chance-warmack

flippy
01-19-2013, 09:19 PM
We won our recent SuperBowls thanks to 4 guys - Ben, Troy, Deebo, and Casey. Ben's still young enough to play in his prime. The other 3 aren't. We need another defensive star asap. And they can play any position.

pfelix73
01-19-2013, 10:49 PM
Exactly. Again, how can just assume that by drafting another OL in round 1 that that will translate into perfect protection for Ben? How can anyone assume that Ben would never get sacked again? This assumption is just absurd. DD, so far, hasn't played up to his billing after his 3 starts. Downright awful in the Cincy game. Many on here thought he was our savior right out of the gate. Not- he has a ways to go yet... Wormack could be the same way. And talk about fat, he needs a treadmill and a dietician.

The defense isn't getting any younger, and we're losing players over there. It's time to revamp and get some depth on D.....

Add a real FB,another TE via the draft and a RB in FA or the draft... Our running game will be just fine with the OL we have now. I would reconsider on bringing back Starks for depth though. And resigning Foster as well.

LordVile
01-19-2013, 11:36 PM
Exactly. Again, how can just assume that by drafting another OL in round 1 that that will translate into perfect protection for Ben? How can anyone assume that Ben would never get sacked again? This assumption is just absurd. DD, so far, hasn't played up to his billing after his 3 starts. Downright awful in the Cincy game. Many on here thought he was our savior right out of the gate. Not- he has a ways to go yet... Wormack could be the same way. And talk about fat, he needs a treadmill and a dietician.

The defense isn't getting any younger, and we're losing players over there. It's time to revamp and get some depth on D.....

Add a real FB,another TE via the draft and a RB in FA or the draft... Our running game will be just fine with the OL we have now. I would reconsider on bringing back Starks for depth though. And resigning Foster as well.

Who said Ben will "never get sacked again" or we would have "perfect protection" with Wormack ??? just making things up as you go I see.. Then you go onto say that DeCastro isn't very good but then later state that we will be fine without another Offensive lineman? You exaggerate too much to accentuate your point.. We've spend way too much cash on the Defense as is.. If Ben gets injured again due to his own play or lack of protection nothing is going to matter much anyways..

raycafan
01-19-2013, 11:47 PM
The two best in this draft are Notre Dame's Tyler Eifert and Stanford's Zach Ertz. Both are 6'6" 250 lbs. They are both rated in the late 1st, early 2nd area, though, meaning that neither one of them will be the BPA at #17, and neither of them should fall as far as #48 either. The only way that I see us ending up with one of these guys is via a trade-down scenario in which we land another valuable day two pick.

I have actually seen those two play a few times :)

8467thekraken
01-20-2013, 12:11 AM
i agree. I
would really like a sick CB. That way if we lose Lewis in FA, we still have Taylor, Cortez Allen, the rookie and Brown. If we retain Lewis, we are 4 deep at what has become a very important position. If not a DB, then a bad ass LB like jones.
We won our recent SuperBowls thanks to 4 guys - Ben, Troy, Deebo, and Casey. Ben's still young enough to play in his prime. The other 3 aren't. We need another defensive star asap. And they can play any position.

pfelix73
01-20-2013, 12:31 AM
Who said Ben will "never get sacked again" or we would have "perfect protection" with Wormack ??? just making things up as you go I see.. Then you go onto say that DeCastro isn't very good but then later state that we will be fine without another Offensive lineman? You exaggerate too much to accentuate your point.. We've spend way too much cash on the Defense as is.. If Ben gets injured again due to his own play or lack of protection nothing is going to matter much anyways..


Well, go back and read many of your fellow posters on other threads, they make it sound like drafting Wormack would be the end of Ben getting sacked, just like they were posting when we drafted DD. lol. For the last time- Ben is Ben. He's gonna play that way regardless if we have 5 pro bowlers up front or not! People were stating that DD was the best OL we had even though he never played a down of NFL caliber football.. That's no exaggeration.. Go look it up..

We've spent money on both sides of the ball. Look it up. Many of our defensive stars are either going to retire soon, or will be outright cut to save money. It's definitely time to concern ourselves with the defense. We need more play makers- to be honest- on both sides of the ball....

LordVile
01-20-2013, 01:09 AM
Well, go back and read many of your fellow posters on other threads, they make it sound like drafting Wormack would be the end of Ben getting sacked, just like they were posting when we drafted DD. lol. For the last time- Ben is Ben. He's gonna play that way regardless if we have 5 pro bowlers up front or not! People were stating that DD was the best OL we had even though he never played a down of NFL caliber football.. That's no exaggeration.. Go look it up..

We've spent money on both sides of the ball. Look it up. Many of our defensive stars are either going to retire soon, or will be outright cut to save money. It's definitely time to concern ourselves with the defense. We need more play makers- to be honest- on both sides of the ball....

DD is the best guard "prospect" to come out in many years.. as a rookie I don't think most ppl are stupid enough to believe he would save us.. as Faneca took time to develop as well.. Some were over excited.. hell, we got a player that we didn't think we could get..

And then he gets injured and plays 3 games and you kinda trash the guy.. sounds like YOU were the one expecting more out of a rookie.. I'm not here to argue.. Yes, we need some play makers on both sides of the ball.. As you know our OLINE gets injured more than other teams for some reason, so yes, lets fortify it and give it depth.. Get the run game going and protect ben as best we can.. Like the "ELITE" teams do with their quarterback..

pfelix73
01-20-2013, 01:23 AM
Yea, I'm not here to argue either, but when I read some of this stuff that just doesn't make good football sense, it gets me going, and maybe it shouldn't, but it's laughable at times. I played many years ago on the OL in college, so I think I do know a little about what's going on up front. I thought we got adequate play out of Foster this year, to be honest. He was competing with DD in camp and it was neck and neck there as to who would start, but let's be honest, the 1st round draft pick would eventually prevail on that. But then the injury....

Anyway, my thoughts this year are that we need another good young TE who can block as well as a capable FB. A la some one similar to my boy Vonte Leach. I think picking up a TE, a FB, and a RB, maybe via FA will do wonders for our running game. Not to mention better blocking schemes by Haley and the new OL coach. In other words, there are other factors that can help up front, rather than devoting another 1st round pick for another OG. As far as protecting Ben? I've already spoken my mind on that part....ok, I guess I'm gonna have to just keep my mouth shut now until April. lol

supersteeler
01-20-2013, 07:44 AM
Exactly. Again, how can just assume that by drafting another OL in round 1 that that will translate into perfect protection for Ben? How can anyone assume that Ben would never get sacked again? This assumption is just absurd. DD, so far, hasn't played up to his billing after his 3 starts. Downright awful in the Cincy game. Many on here thought he was our savior right out of the gate. Not- he has a ways to go yet... Wormack could be the same way. And talk about fat, he needs a treadmill and a dietician.

The defense isn't getting any younger, and we're losing players over there. It's time to revamp and get some depth on D.....

Add a real FB,another TE via the draft and a RB in FA or the draft... Our running game will be just fine with the OL we have now. I would reconsider on bringing back Starks for depth though. And resigning Foster as well.



No one here ever said Ben wouldn't get sacked again, its about solidifing our interior o-line and its not absurd. Look back at the last few years where our run game had issues and still does because there is no consistency in run blocking. Rooney came out public on the inability to run the ball more effectively but if you don't have the horses up front even Jim Brown would have trouble.

As for the FB position I thought Will Johnson did well not only in blocking but in pass plays, I do agree another TE would be a good selection but not in the first round.
The Baltimore Ravens always known for their defense have increased their offensive production adding players like Tory Smith, Dennis Pitta, but also they put together a good o-line through the draft and FA's. If you look at their team they can beat you with the run or pass its not about defense being dominate anymore its about balance.

Our team for too long now can't seem to generate points, we are 26 the in the league in rushing even though Ben got sacked LESS this year, we need run blockers on that line so we can balance our offense.
I'm tired of seeing our offense struggle, we have a good QB, good receivers and excellent TE, but if you don't win the battle on the line of scrimmage the inability to score points will continue.

If you look at the remaining teams in the playoffs they all have the ability to score points something you need to get that far, you can't do it on defense alone anymore. They all have good o-lines as well, something you need to get that balance we're looking for. Take N.E for example, they have a no name back who ran for over a 1,000 yrds even though they are a pass first offense, the big thing is they have a good O-line.

The Steelers fired Arians and brought in Haley two different styles of running an offense but the results were the same, a inability to score points and run the football. Its not the OC's, its the line, fix that and we'll have better results.
Look, we need help on both sides of the ball, its just my opinion we need more on the offensive side but don't go by what I'm saying its all on tape.

All the teams that made the playoffs had an ability to score points, many had to score over 30 to win their games and if they couldn't they would lose. We scored over 30 one damn time this year.....fix the offense first!!!!

Oviedo
01-20-2013, 10:29 AM
No one here ever said Ben wouldn't get sacked again, its about solidifing our interior o-line and its not absurd. Look back at the last few years where our run game had issues and still does because there is no consistency in run blocking. Rooney came out public on the inability to run the ball more effectively but if you don't have the horses up front even Jim Brown would have trouble.

As for the FB position I thought Will Johnson did well not only in blocking but in pass plays, I do agree another TE would be a good selection but not in the first round.
The Baltimore Ravens always known for their defense have increased their offensive production adding players like Tory Smith, Dennis Pitta, but also they put together a good o-line through the draft and FA's. If you look at their team they can beat you with the run or pass its not about defense being dominate anymore its about balance.

Our team for too long now can't seem to generate points, we are 26 the in the league in rushing even though Ben got sacked LESS this year, we need run blockers on that line so we can balance our offense.
I'm tired of seeing our offense struggle, we have a good QB, good receivers and excellent TE, but if you don't win the battle on the line of scrimmage the inability to score points will continue.

If you look at the remaining teams in the playoffs they all have the ability to score points something you need to get that far, you can't do it on defense alone anymore. They all have good o-lines as well, something you need to get that balance we're looking for. Take N.E for example, they have a no name back who ran for over a 1,000 yrds even though they are a pass first offense, the big thing is they have a good O-line.

The Steelers fired Arians and brought in Haley two different styles of running an offense but the results were the same, a inability to score points and run the football. Its not the OC's, its the line, fix that and we'll have better results.
Look, we need help on both sides of the ball, its just my opinion we need more on the offensive side but don't go by what I'm saying its all on tape.

All the teams that made the playoffs had an ability to score points, many had to score over 30 to win their games and if they couldn't they would lose. We scored over 30 one damn time this year.....fix the offense first!!!!

Your last sentence hits the nail on the head. The era of dominant defenses is long over. This is a league where offense is given all the advantages so we have to keep up or be an also ran. It is a football version of the ColdWar arms race between the US and the USSR. You have to make sure you have more firepower than the enemy because then you can be proactive and not reactive.

Our priority in this draft should be adding to the OL, adding a TE and a RB. It doesn't mean you ignore the defense but you don't need to use the premium picks on players who won't be allowed to start for one to two years.

feltdizz
01-20-2013, 10:50 AM
I'm not up on Warmack but I dont think we need another fat guy in the interior... we need playmakers. I would prefer a TE, RB, CB. If thqt means we trade down to get him then so be it. We have picked up more than enough lineman and drafting more wont cure our woee when we have RB by committee, a TE who is injured and DB's who cant catch.

People acted like DD was the secind coming of Faneca and would make our OL better on day 1. He had a decent camp but the word was Foster held his own as well. The last thing I want is a guy magically falling to us AGAIN and then witnessing why he fell and others passed on him. I'm tired of having to wait 2 or 3 years for a guy to get it... It would be nice to get a baller who can help us on day 1.

pfelix73
01-20-2013, 11:08 AM
No one here ever said Ben wouldn't get sacked again, its about solidifing our interior o-line and its not absurd. Look back at the last few years where our run game had issues and still does because there is no consistency in run blocking. Rooney came out public on the inability to run the ball more effectively but if you don't have the horses up front even Jim Brown would have trouble.

As for the FB position I thought Will Johnson did well not only in blocking but in pass plays, I do agree another TE would be a good selection but not in the first round.
The Baltimore Ravens always known for their defense have increased their offensive production adding players like Tory Smith, Dennis Pitta, but also they put together a good o-line through the draft and FA's. If you look at their team they can beat you with the run or pass its not about defense being dominate anymore its about balance.

Our team for too long now can't seem to generate points, we are 26 the in the league in rushing even though Ben got sacked LESS this year, we need run blockers on that line so we can balance our offense.
I'm tired of seeing our offense struggle, we have a good QB, good receivers and excellent TE, but if you don't win the battle on the line of scrimmage the inability to score points will continue.

If you look at the remaining teams in the playoffs they all have the ability to score points something you need to get that far, you can't do it on defense alone anymore. They all have good o-lines as well, something you need to get that balance we're looking for. Take N.E for example, they have a no name back who ran for over a 1,000 yrds even though they are a pass first offense, the big thing is they have a good O-line.

The Steelers fired Arians and brought in Haley two different styles of running an offense but the results were the same, a inability to score points and run the football. Its not the OC's, its the line, fix that and we'll have better results.
Look, we need help on both sides of the ball, its just my opinion we need more on the offensive side but don't go by what I'm saying its all on tape.

All the teams that made the playoffs had an ability to score points, many had to score over 30 to win their games and if they couldn't they would lose. We scored over 30 one damn time this year.....fix the offense first!!!!


Wow. Don't know where to begin with this one. First of all, if you ask anyone from NE area, they would take offense to the quote you have there that they have no good RB's. Sure they don't have AP out there, but still...

Baltimore has Ray Rice. We have no Ray Rice on our team and no pro bowl caliber FB such as Vonte Leach. Johnso di an adequate job, however there were times when our RB didn't follow their FB leading the way.

Please re-read my post from above. You missed a few things. We actually do a pretty good job of running the ball when we pull our guards and man block. Colon did a good job of that until he got hurt. Hello Kemo was known for that too. This is a big reason why I like the idea of moving Pouncey to LG. He'd make for a great pulling OG, in my opinion. Let Legs play C and/ or draft a C in the middle part of this draft. Maybe even the guy from Alabama.

In my opinion, our guys do just an avg. job at zone blocking. I'm ready to see a new OL coach in there.

pfelix73
01-20-2013, 11:19 AM
I'm not up on Warmack but I dont think we need another fat guy in the interior... we need playmakers. I would prefer a TE, RB, CB. If thqt means we trade down to get him then so be it. We have picked up more than enough lineman and drafting more wont cure our woee when we have RB by committee, a TE who is injured and DB's who cant catch.

People acted like DD was the secind coming of Faneca and would make our OL better on day 1. He had a decent camp but the word was Foster held his own as well. The last thing I want is a guy magically falling to us AGAIN and then witnessing why he fell and others passed on him. I'm tired of having to wait 2 or 3 years for a guy to get it... It would be nice to get a baller who can help us on day 1.


Yup. Exactly my thoughts too. I witnessed DD stinking up the joint 1st hand on Dec. 23rd against the Bengals. He needs to have a good 2013 TC to get off to a better start.

supersteeler
01-20-2013, 11:35 AM
Please re-read my post from above. You missed a few things. We actually do a pretty good job of running the ball when we pull our guards and man block.
Yeah, thats why we have a rushing totals that refute that statement. As for the Pats because of their o-line their back does have a name now, they could put ANY back in their and he would have success again, because of their O-line.

The proof is in the tape if you watched it, two years in a row our run game was putrid and it wasn't because of our backs not trying the blocks wern't there. Remember when we had Jerome the defense stacked the box and still couldn't stop him because our line back then was making blocks. Yeah he did some on his own with that power he had and quick feet but its the O-line that paves the way for a good run game.

Yeah, draft a OLB, that will help our run game and this ridiculous inability to score points because we have no balance in our offense.
No one is going to convince me Lacy or any other back is going to solve the issue until we get run blocking solved first.

We can debate this until the cows come home, however that facts show the main reason we are sitting at home is the inability of our offense to score points, 30 points a year ain't doing it, and a lack of run game didn't help in the matter.

birtikidis
01-20-2013, 12:23 PM
With the new pay system, skill players are going higher bc they don't have to be paid a crap load. Instead of taking a guard high, teams will take a risky qb bc it won't kill them financially like it used to.

pfelix73
01-20-2013, 12:30 PM
Please re-read my post from above. You missed a few things. We actually do a pretty good job of running the ball when we pull our guards and man block.
Yeah, thats why we have a rushing totals that refute that statement. As for the Pats because of their o-line their back does have a name now, they could put ANY back in their and he would have success again, because of their O-line.

The proof is in the tape if you watched it, two years in a row our run game was putrid and it wasn't because of our backs not trying the blocks wern't there. Remember when we had Jerome the defense stacked the box and still couldn't stop him because our line back then was making blocks. Yeah he did some on his own with that power he had and quick feet but its the O-line that paves the way for a good run game.

Yeah, draft a OLB, that will help our run game and this ridiculous inability to score points because we have no balance in our offense.
No one is going to convince me Lacy or any other back is going to solve the issue until we get run blocking solved first.

We can debate this until the cows come home, however that facts show the main reason we are sitting at home is the inability of our offense to score points, 30 points a year ain't doing it, and a lack of run game didn't help in the matter.

Fact is- Main reason why we're sitting home for the playoffs is because our QB threw that pick returned for an easy TD against Cincinnati. Never should have thrown that ball. Obvious where I was sitting- which was in that very endzone...

supersteeler
01-20-2013, 12:39 PM
Fact is- Main reason why we're sitting home for the playoffs is because our QB threw that pick returned for an easy TD against Cincinnati. Never should have thrown that ball. Obvious where I was sitting- which was in that very endzone...

I won't dispute that 73, or the one in Dallas. Every player except Heath Miller shared in the results of this non-playoff season, I wish it was different but we have no choice in the matter. I bet your beer tasted bad after that, its a bad taste for all of us steeler fans the way this season unfolded.

RuthlessBurgher
01-20-2013, 12:56 PM
It doesn't mean you ignore the defense but you don't need to use the premium picks on players who won't be allowed to start for one to two years.

You say this every year. Don't use premium picks on players who won't be allowed to start for one to two years. If we followed your strategy, we would never have a premium pick on defense ever again.

pfelix73
01-20-2013, 01:49 PM
Got that right 110%. And it is, just like you say, a cap/ contract issue too. You put all your eggs into one basket (all 1st round draft picks going to the OL or any position for that matter) and you will eventually pay the piper when contracts come up 4-5 yrs out.

Realistically, you have to spread it (1st round picks) out over the entire team, and they are doing that.....Common sense would say that defense, where ever it is, is probably up next. Unless, like you were saying maybe even a TE. I can see that option too.

Ruthless, where are the scouts now projecting that C/G/T from Alabama going? The one who played C in the Champ. game... Early 2nd round? Trading down might be a good option if we could get both a defensive playmaker and maybe a C like him, but then again, I don't like the idea of going all the way down twice into the 2nd round like you were predicting in your one thread. I can see them doing it once, if say, Te'o is gone at 17 and there is no one worthy of picking at 17... Te'o still intrigues me as a lb though. I just think he's gonna be that good of a ball player. He's all over the field when he plays...I really liked Hightower last year, and he's doing well at NE, however, I think Te'o is ten times the athlete and playmaker Hightower will ever be. I can see him starting immediately, esp. if Foote is released.

Shawn
01-20-2013, 04:07 PM
I think this is the year the Steelers draft a freak OLB to rush the passer. I believe T'eo falls to them but they pass.

supersteeler
01-20-2013, 04:24 PM
If the Steelers let Colon and Foster leave the projected starter is Beachum @LG. Now Legursky if signed could play that position too but he's better suited to back up Pouncey at center.

The reamaining back up is John Malecki and if you want to include him, Justin Cheadle> FUTURE RESERVES

steelmann58
01-20-2013, 05:04 PM
I not sure yet who we should pick yet but we need a definite Playmaker in round 1 and 2 and a Playmaker should not be a OL or DL.

Oviedo
01-20-2013, 05:25 PM
You say this every year. Don't use premium picks on players who won't be allowed to start for one to two years. If we followed your strategy, we would never have a premium pick on defense ever again.

Or you could adjust your defensive philosophy to move to a more simplified defense that allows young players to step in an contribute their first year. Other teams around the league seem to be able to do this with regularity and success.

Has the supposed complexity that our defense has really made a difference the past couple of season. The situation you get is Keenan Lewis who starts one season and is due a big paycheck to keep him.

phillyesq
01-20-2013, 06:41 PM
Or you could adjust your defensive philosophy to move to a more simplified defense that allows young players to step in an contribute their first year. Other teams around the league seem to be able to do this with regularity and success.

Has the supposed complexity that our defense has really made a difference the past couple of season. The situation you get is Keenan Lewis who starts one season and is due a big paycheck to keep him.

Keenan Lewis didn't play early because he stunk. It had nothing to do with the defense.

Cortez Allen played a lot in his first 2 years because he adapted more quickly.

Chadman
01-20-2013, 06:56 PM
Steelers will draft Defense in the 1st.

It's the D's turn.

What position? Where have they not prepared for the future?

ILB- Spence
OLB- Worilds
NT- Ta'amu? Fangupo? McLendon?
DE- Heyward, Hood
CB- Allen, Brown
FS- Golden? Cromartie-Brown?
SS- See Above.

NT or Safety in the 1st, most likely.

supersteeler
01-20-2013, 07:21 PM
Let me put it this way, even if we drafted a punter in the first I would be happy if..........WE WIN THE SB :p

SteelerOfDeVille
01-20-2013, 07:25 PM
Keenan Lewis didn't play early because he stunk. It had nothing to do with the defense.

Cortez Allen played a lot in his first 2 years because he adapted more quickly.
Bingo! Woodly and Timmons contributed as rooks. As did Polamalu. Often, rooks don't start with this team because, after all, the defense is pretty dang good.

Chadman
01-20-2013, 07:26 PM
Let me put it this way, even if we drafted a punter in the first I would be happy if..........WE WIN THE SB :p

If a punter gets drafted anywhere before the 7th round- angry mobs will converge on Steelers HQ baying for blood.

Even if they win the SB.

NJ-STEELER
01-20-2013, 07:39 PM
just no 1st rounders on the defensive side of the ball this year. we were #1 despite missing troy and deebo most of the year and woodley not perfroming up to his stabdards.

we have 2 recent high picks in heyward and wordlis that still cant get off the bench and going back to hood and timmons, they also took 2 years to start.

we need an immediate impact and (as recent history shows) it wont come from a pick on the defense.

WR biggest need
RB right behind it
2nd TE (we use the set enough to warrent one and he can groom under heath for a few years

Ol is actually 1 position that i think we have enough guys to get the job them. just have to let them play. maybe a late rounder to fill in at OG.

Chadman
01-20-2013, 07:49 PM
just no 1st rounders on the defensive side of the ball this year. we were #1 despite missing troy and deebo most of the year and woodley not perfroming up to his stabdards.

we have 2 recent high picks in heyward and wordlis that still cant get off the bench and going back to hood and timmons, they also took 2 years to start.

we need an immediate impact and (as recent history shows) it wont come from a pick on the defense.

WR biggest need
RB right behind it
2nd TE (we use the set enough to warrent one and he can groom under heath for a few years

Ol is actually 1 position that i think we have enough guys to get the job them. just have to let them play. maybe a late rounder to fill in at OG.

Need & Value are 2 different things, though. The WR class is strong- very strong- right through the first 3 rounds. No need to grab one at #17, as the drop-off in talent to the guys mid-2nd round is not very steep. There is no RB of value to be picked at #17... the value comes more in the late 2nd to mid 3rd range. Warmack might be good value at #17, if he's there.

The value will be on Defense. The drop-off from the highest rated NT's to the second tier is pretty steep, as is the drop-off from the OLB's. Value can still be had beyond Rd 1 at ILB & CB, but Safety could be the slippery fish- very difficult to judge where the run on Safeties will come. If the Steelers want one (they really should), they might be best served 'overdrafting' a Matt Elam at #17 instead of running the risk of missing Eric Reid with their 2nd pick... if that makes sense..

SteelerOfDeVille
01-20-2013, 11:21 PM
just no 1st rounders on the defensive side of the ball this year. we were #1 despite missing troy and deebo most of the year and woodley not perfroming up to his stabdards.

we have 2 recent high picks in heyward and wordlis that still cant get off the bench and going back to hood and timmons, they also took 2 years to start.

we need an immediate impact and (as recent history shows) it wont come from a pick on the defense.

WR biggest need
RB right behind it
2nd TE (we use the set enough to warrent one and he can groom under heath for a few years

Ol is actually 1 position that i think we have enough guys to get the job them. just have to let them play. maybe a late rounder to fill in at OG.
That would be devastating, long term. 7 of the 11 starters on defense are OVER 30 (i.e., rapidly approaching retirement age).
Keisel (34), Hampton (35), Foote(32), Troy(31), Clark (33) Ike(32), Harrison (34)...
you don't wanna wait until all those 30-somethings start dropping and scramble to replace them out of need, you want to phase in defensive players and get value, when it's available. A defense that had only 10 interceptions and only 37 sacks; numbers that indicate the players are a step slower than they were in 2008 when they won they super bowl and averaged almost a full sack per game more... then again, Foote, Troy, Ike and Clark were all in their 20's and Harrison and Keisel were just 30...

By contrast, offensively, Heath and Ben are both 30... max is 31 and not even expected back... everybody else is in their 20's.

It's time to find a pass rusher, a run stuffer and a ball-hawk... NOW. Give them a season behind they guys in front of them to learn the defense, and let all those then-36-year-old players walk graciously into the sunset...

I could see this draft looking a lot like the "Timmons-Woodley" draft when Tomlin first took over.

supersteeler
01-20-2013, 11:35 PM
Just to cheer most of you guys up a little, I doubt the Steelers would take a Guard in the first round. If I had to break it down it would be BPA AT OLB, SAFETY OR CORNER. One of those three, but I wouldn't mind having Chance Warmack either, or one of those NT's Jessie Williams or John Jenkins.

WR and RB we can get after the first.

SteelerOfDeVille
01-20-2013, 11:58 PM
I'm thinking BPA at OLB, ILB, NT... if nothing is there, they go for WR, RB, CB, S

I fully expect pick #1 to be one of 3 players: Dion Jordan, Alec Ogletree or Manti Te'o. Jordan is pure OLB, Teo is pure ILB and Ogletree is more Timmons-esque, in that, he potentially could move to either ILB or OLB. At this point, I'd sell the farm and bank on one of the 3...

NJ-STEELER
01-21-2013, 07:58 PM
That would be devastating, long term. 7 of the 11 starters on defense are OVER 30 (i.e., rapidly approaching retirement age).
Keisel (34), Hampton (35), Foote(32), Troy(31), Clark (33) Ike(32), Harrison (34)...
you don't wanna wait until all those 30-somethings start dropping and scramble to replace them out of need, you want to phase in defensive players and get value, when it's available. A defense that had only 10 interceptions and only 37 sacks; numbers that indicate the players are a step slower than they were in 2008 when they won they super bowl and averaged almost a full sack per game more... then again, Foote, Troy, Ike and Clark were all in their 20's and Harrison and Keisel were just 30...

By contrast, offensively, Heath and Ben are both 30... max is 31 and not even expected back... everybody else is in their 20's.

It's time to find a pass rusher, a run stuffer and a ball-hawk... NOW. Give them a season behind they guys in front of them to learn the defense, and let all those then-36-year-old players walk graciously into the sunset...

I could see this draft looking a lot like the "Timmons-Woodley" draft when Tomlin first took over.

i disagree

the defense has been good for a long time. it was #1 despite missing troy and harrison for a good chunk.

woodely, timmons are in their prime. lewis and allen are young corners and 2 other young high draft picks cant get off the bench and have been primed to replace 2 of those over 30 starters. and spence was promising in training camp too.
thats more then half the defense.

then you dont need a high pick to eat up the NT spot. not in the passing league we have now. free safety is another spot on our roster thats been filled with lower round draft choices or average free agent signings (hope/clark). kind of like our DEs used to be

the offense may be younger but the only good part of it(hopefully) is the OL. watching these playoffs, you see how these other receivers go up and get the ball? our YMC are a joke compared to them. they fumble without getting touched on their way to a long TD, they trip over grass on their way to the end zone. and it looks like they wont be bringing back their most productive receiver the last few years. so we're already working on not having as good of an offense

monday mornings all you see on here is bitching about the offense. get some damn players that can ball on that side. ben cant keep turning chicken chit into chicken salad

interesting fact... once free agency starts, there will not be a 1st or 2nd round pick on the roster at the skill positions (RB/WR). can another team in the league say that

NJ-STEELER
01-21-2013, 08:03 PM
I'm thinking BPA at OLB, ILB, NT... if nothing is there, they go for WR, RB, CB, S

I fully expect pick #1 to be one of 3 players: Dion Jordan, Alec Ogletree or Manti Te'o. Jordan is pure OLB, Teo is pure ILB and Ogletree is more Timmons-esque, in that, he potentially could move to either ILB or OLB. At this point, I'd sell the farm and bank on one of the 3...

even if te'o starts

who comes off the field in nickel and dime packages? timmons isnt cause he can cover better right now. so are we gonna use another high pick to play sparingly the next few years?

RuthlessBurgher
01-21-2013, 08:32 PM
Ruthless, where are the scouts now projecting that C/G/T from Alabama going? The one who played C in the Champ. game... Early 2nd round?

Yeah, that's probably about right for Barrett Jones at this point.

RuthlessBurgher
01-21-2013, 08:40 PM
I'm thinking BPA at OLB, ILB, NT... if nothing is there, they go for WR, RB, CB, S

I fully expect pick #1 to be one of 3 players: Dion Jordan, Alec Ogletree or Manti Te'o. Jordan is pure OLB, Teo is pure ILB and Ogletree is more Timmons-esque, in that, he potentially could move to either ILB or OLB. At this point, I'd sell the farm and bank on one of the 3...

Physically, yeah, Ogletree fits. But with our recent risk-reward failures fresh in our mind, I highly doubt they use their top pick on a guy who was was suspended for the first 4 games of this past season because of a failed drug test. They have been known to make exceptions before (Mike Adams and Marvel Smith come to mind), but those were 2nd round picks, not the marquis first round guy that you parade around in front of all of the cameras. And, unfortunately, Te'o is looking less and less likely as well due to this fiasco...we need increased focus between the white lines...don't need the "Today Show" showing up at Latrobe for the latest on Te'o or TMZ cameras scouting out the team's South Side HQ. A trade down to nab Minter while getting an extra day two pick is more likely in my mind if ILB is their top target.

supersteeler
01-21-2013, 08:40 PM
The Steelers are going to try and find their needs in all the rounds, the first round may be BPA no matter what the position is.
We can speculate but I'm thinking the Steelers are going to draft for the long term in this paticular draft and at least get one or two needed positions filled for the short term.
Colbert and staff will be really working hard this off season, another season like this or worse could put some jobs in jeapordy not only players but coaches as well.
I think they all know the challenge ahead but Colbert has to be smart about it. Yeah, we need to get younger and unload older and high paying contracts but be careful in the process.
We have what left, the Senior Bowl, the Super Bowl, heck I'm ready for the draft right now.

pfelix73
01-21-2013, 08:58 PM
^^^ This is why we need another league. Something that starts in Feb. and goes through May, etc. I know they tried other leagues and they didn't work out, but some sort of minor league system with some of the guys from the practice squads, etc. should be beneficial to all. Fans too. Oh well...

Dee Dub
01-21-2013, 09:13 PM
even if te'o starts

who comes off the field in nickel and dime packages? timmons isnt cause he can cover better right now. so are we gonna use another high pick to play sparingly the next few years?

Patrick Willis comes off the field on 3rd down passing plays. Does it diminishes the player he is or the impact he has?

ikestops85
01-22-2013, 01:44 PM
Unless an elite pass rusher falls to us I hope there is someone who covets our #17 spot and is willing to make a deal. I'm not a big watcher of college football so I'm basing this on what everybody here is saying but it seems there is a lot of value sitting in the second and third round so if we can get an extra pick in one of those rounds we should go for it.

BigRob
01-22-2013, 02:19 PM
Unless an elite pass rusher falls to us I hope there is someone who covets our #17 spot and is willing to make a deal. I'm not a big watcher of college football so I'm basing this on what everybody here is saying but it seems there is a lot of value sitting in the second and third round so if we can get an extra pick in one of those rounds we should go for it.

This is the best way to get young fast, but is this the best way to bounce back from a poor season? I am beginning to think we need to trade back five or six spots and chooose the best WR on the board. Either Patterson or Hopkins in the first and follow this up with the best running back in the second round. Offense rules the NFL now, we need to get this unit up to snuff.