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phillyesq
01-15-2013, 02:36 PM
http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Team-to-investigate-rash-of-injuries/7a52fef7-d231-4726-99f1-624c12207ae0

Would be great to see a renewed focus on training for a lot of those guys, especially Woodley and Gilbert.

lloydroid
01-15-2013, 02:53 PM
http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Team-to-investigate-rash-of-injuries/7a52fef7-d231-4726-99f1-624c12207ae0

Would be great to see a renewed focus on training for a lot of those guys, especially Woodley and Gilbert.

It's kind of pathetic that they are JUST NOW looking into this. All you have to do is LOOK at Woodley and Colon to conclude that they are out of shape, fat, sloppy and likely to get hurt due to their conditions. But Art 2 is JUST NOW considering players condition and the impact that has on injuries? I would also like to know how much power rack lifting they are doing during the season. They should be cutting that way back or eliminating it. Do they?

steelz09
01-15-2013, 03:00 PM
It's kind of pathetic that they are JUST NOW looking into this. All you have to do is LOOK at Woodley and Colon to conclude that they are out of shape, fat, sloppy and likely to get hurt due to their conditions. But Art 2 is JUST NOW considering players condition and the impact that has on injuries? I would also like to know how much power rack lifting they are doing during the season. They should be cutting that way back or eliminating it. Do they?

Here's a better question.... Why in the hell does it take ownership to get involved in this? This again is a discipline issue just like the others (listed below). This is on the coaching.

Ben calling out his OC
Mendenhall not showing up for the game
Wallace
Fumbling Issues
Penalty Issues

lloydroid
01-15-2013, 03:04 PM
Here's a better question.... Why in the hell does it take ownership to get involved in this? This again is a DISPLINE issue just like the others (listed below). This is on the coaching.

Ben calling out his OC
Mendenhall not showing up for the game
Wallace
Fumbling Issues
Penalty Issues

Good point. But, as ownership, if you see any problems, you have to address them, but not necessarily in any public way. This is another disturbing example of Tomlin having problems with team discipline, and it could be one of the biggest problems this team has. Can he wake up and fix this? Art 2 is having to get involved because Mikey is screwing this up. Not only are his players showing up fat, but so did he. So they all fit in together.

steelz09
01-15-2013, 03:15 PM
Good point. But, as ownership, if you see any problems, you have to address them, but not necessarily in any public way. This is another disturbing example of Tomlin having problems with team discipline, and it could be one of the biggest problems this team has. Can he wake up and fix this? Art 2 is having to get involved because Mikey is screwing this up. Not only are his players showing up fat, but so did he. So they all fit in together.

I was going to mention Tomlin's weight but I left that one out.... I knew someone else would cover that.

This is the most interesting comment by Art II:

"The other thing we have to do is make our players aware that under the rules that we’re all operating under now, it’s more on them to make sure they’re performing the offseason conditioning, because we only have access to them for nine weeks. It is incumbent on the individual players to be aware of that, and I think they are.”

^^ I surely hope the coaching staff is informing players of this. I would also hope that the coaching staff, players, nutrionists, and strength and conditioning personnel map out goals for each player.

supersteeler
01-15-2013, 03:23 PM
Maybe the Steelers ( Players ) should consider Tom Shaw, I think thats his name. I read an article about him and he describes types of injuries and how to be better conditioned to avoid them.

He trains Ike taylor and other NFL stars. From what I'm hearing he offered his assistance in this matter so maybe the players will take him up on that. Ike was durable for many years and games, this is his first yr. I can remember being out on account of injury.
Some injuries you can't avoid but a better conditioned player who trains in the off season is less likely to have them.

Its really uncommon to have that many injuries on one part of the team( O-line) for 3 years in a row now, something is wrong.

lloydroid
01-15-2013, 03:51 PM
I was going to mention Tomlin's weight but I left that one out.... I knew someone else would cover that.

This is the most interesting comment by Art II:

"The other thing we have to do is make our players aware that under the rules that we’re all operating under now, it’s more on them to make sure they’re performing the offseason conditioning, because we only have access to them for nine weeks. It is incumbent on the individual players to be aware of that, and I think they are.”

^^ I surely hope the coaching staff is informing players of this. I would also hope that the coaching staff, players, nutrionists, and strength and conditioning personnel map out goals for each player.

I don't know what the new CBA includes or allows, but if possible, they should employ the strategy where players get fined for every day they are not at their ideal playing weight. Obviously, they did not bother to do this with players like Woodley and Colon. I don't think Tomlin can handle administering this kind of discipline. He wants to be their best friend instead of a head coach. Tom Coughlin constantly gets on his players if they are not at their proper weight. It seems like the Steelers don't even mention it.

lloydroid
01-15-2013, 03:53 PM
Maybe the Steelers ( Players ) should consider Tom Shaw, I think thats his name. I read an article about him and he describes types of injuries and how to be better conditioned to avoid them.

He trains Ike taylor and other NFL stars. From what I'm hearing he offered his assistance in this matter so maybe the players will take him up on that. Ike was durable for many years and games, this is his first yr. I can remember being out on account of injury.
Some injuries you can't avoid but a better conditioned player who trains in the off season is less likely to have them.

Its really uncommon to have that many injuries on one part of the team( O-line) for 3 years in a row now, something is wrong.

What is their work out regiment? Anyone know? Are the doing heavy squats and dead lifts, etc. during the season? If they are, that's one thing to change right there. With all the stress on the knees, legs and ankles just from practicing and playing, they shouldn't be hitting the power rack during the season. Are they?

Slapstick
01-15-2013, 04:10 PM
I don't know what the new CBA includes or allows, but if possible, they should employ the strategy where players get fined for every day they are not at their ideal playing weight. Obviously, they did not bother to do this with players like Woodley and Colon. I don't think Tomlin can handle administering this kind of discipline. He wants to be their best friend instead of a head coach. Tom Coughlin constantly gets on his players if they are not at their proper weight. It seems like the Steelers don't even mention it.

Yeah! Casey and Tomlin were best buddies when Casey was on the PUP list for being fat...

phillyesq
01-15-2013, 04:42 PM
Maybe the Steelers ( Players ) should consider Tom Shaw, I think thats his name. I read an article about him and he describes types of injuries and how to be better conditioned to avoid them.

He trains Ike taylor and other NFL stars. From what I'm hearing he offered his assistance in this matter so maybe the players will take him up on that. Ike was durable for many years and games, this is his first yr. I can remember being out on account of injury.
Some injuries you can't avoid but a better conditioned player who trains in the off season is less likely to have them.

Its really uncommon to have that many injuries on one part of the team( O-line) for 3 years in a row now, something is wrong.

Shaw is the guy. He is mentioned in this article and all but invites Woodley:

http://triblive.com/sports/-topstories/3290286-74/injuries-steelers-players#axzz2I1EIprtl

lloydroid
01-15-2013, 05:07 PM
Yeah! Casey and Tomlin were best buddies when Casey was on the PUP list for being fat...

Oh my, that's about as "strict" as demoting Wallace from "Starter" to "Co-starter." As we all saw, Casey was still so fat he could barely walk during the season. He's a few pounds away from being considered "disabled." Heck, I bet he could apply for the handicapped parking sticker and get one issued to him right now. The players have such little to fear, that when Wallace dropped an easy TD pass, he let out the largest grin, ear to ear, that I have ever seen. He thought the whole thing was just hilarious.

NorthCoast
01-15-2013, 10:55 PM
You guys are pointing at coaching staff for discipline and I won't disagree.

But I am also a firm believer in players stepping up to keep their own in line. Hate to say it, but a Ray Lewis would be riding Woodley's ass the entire season on staying in shape and contributing.
The defense lost a huge amount of leadership in Farrior. Clark tried to step up but I think the Steelers need a badass LB or lineman to be in charge, get in their teammates faces, set the mood for getting ready for an NFL game.
The players need self-policing now more than ever with the new NFL rules and I am not sure Tomlin has been able to find 'his man' to serve that role.

Chadman
01-15-2013, 11:26 PM
Just pointing out that Tom Shaw, in the article provided, doesn't say Woodley was out of shape, but that he was training correctly. There is a difference.

Casey Hampton is fat, and always has been. Chances are, always will be. He didn't miss any games to conditioning this season.

Colon is concerning. It's all differing injuries with him. That could very well be on conditioning.

When we talk about injuries, let's not forget the role age will play. The older you are, the more your body breaks down. Ike Taylor, Willie Colon, Ben Roethlisberger, Troy Polamalu, Heath Miller, James Harrison... these guys are all over 30. And Ben, Ike & Heath's injuries can hardly be blamed on conditioning.

Can the Steelers be fitter? Perhaps... sure, why not?

But Tom Shaw isn't saying the Steelers are out of condition- he's saying that the conditioning training the players are doing might not be correct.

It's certainly worth investigating.

As for discipline.... now that is something that the Steelers need to tighten up on. The responsibility will ultimately fall on Tomlin to bring them into line, but as Northcoast said- some of the players need to stand up & assume the leadership of this team. Forget team captains- guys like Keisel etc are probably terriffic captains.

But team leaders the way a Ray Lewis is a team leader, or how Jerome Bettis was... that is what this team needs. Discipline does not ALWAYS have to come from the boss- often times people will respond best to their peers. Case in point- imagine if Hines Ward had been in Wallace's ear all season. How would that have changed Wallace's output?

SidSmythe
01-16-2013, 12:56 AM
Not really something you can address in midseason.

steelz09
01-16-2013, 12:43 PM
Not really something you can address in midseason.

I don't think we are saying that it should have been. At least, I'm not. I think it's a good thing that Rooney is going to look into this. BUT...

I'm asking myself...

#1 - Hasn't Tomlin communicated that he's done this to Rooney. If not, has Tomlin communicated it to his players at all? If both are a "no" then that is a big problem.

#2 - Has the coaches, nutritionists, and strength and conditioning coaches set goals (and/or requirements) for each player?

#3 - If both 1 and 2 are a "yes" (doubtful) then the players need to be held accountable.

bowldog
01-16-2013, 01:59 PM
The new CBA took out a lot of the off season conditioning that the teams used, so now its up to the players to follow up on the conditioning themselves in the off season. I think the coaching comes into play when improper techniques are used by the players, especially the OL where you have more wieght and collisions in short area and short time spans.

lloydroid
01-16-2013, 03:29 PM
You guys are pointing at coaching staff for discipline and I won't disagree.

But I am also a firm believer in players stepping up to keep their own in line. Hate to say it, but a Ray Lewis would be riding Woodley's ass the entire season on staying in shape and contributing.
The defense lost a huge amount of leadership in Farrior. Clark tried to step up but I think the Steelers need a badass LB or lineman to be in charge, get in their teammates faces, set the mood for getting ready for an NFL game.
The players need self-policing now more than ever with the new NFL rules and I am not sure Tomlin has been able to find 'his man' to serve that role.

This has always been true, at least in the modern era of the NFL: You need some players to lead and police the team, as coaches get tuned out after so long. But other players will listen to fellow players, especially when there is a crew of leaders who bark out a collective, consistent message, such as, "we don't play out of shape." But, all that being said, the coaching staff has to realize this is a fact, and that when there is a lack of enough team leadership, they need to react and try to counter act the negative impact as much as possible. It seems they were blindsided by this factor. I think Tomlin inherited a team full of leaders and veterans, but found himself lost as those players went away. I think Hines Ward, Aaron Smith and Farrior were huge losses that they have not adapted to.

hawaiiansteel
01-16-2013, 03:36 PM
This has always been true, at least in the modern era of the NFL: You need some players to lead and police the team, as coaches get tuned out after so long. But other players will listen to fellow players, especially when there is a crew of leaders who bark out a collective, consistent message, such as, "we don't play out of shape." But, all that being said, the coaching staff has to realize this is a fact, and that when there is a lack of enough team leadership, they need to react and try to counter act the negative impact as much as possible. It seems they were blindsided by this factor. I think Tomlin inherited a team full of leaders and veterans, but found himself lost as those players went away. I think Hines Ward, Aaron Smith and Farrior were huge losses that they have not adapted to.

good post, I agree.

Slapstick
01-16-2013, 03:42 PM
This has always been true, at least in the modern era of the NFL: You need some players to lead and police the team, as coaches get tuned out after so long. But other players will listen to fellow players, especially when there is a crew of leaders who bark out a collective, consistent message, such as, "we don't play out of shape." But, all that being said, the coaching staff has to realize this is a fact, and that when there is a lack of enough team leadership, they need to react and try to counter act the negative impact as much as possible. It seems they were blindsided by this factor. I think Tomlin inherited a team full of leaders and veterans, but found himself lost as those players went away. I think Hines Ward, Aaron Smith and Farrior were huge losses that they have not adapted to.

Usually, that is the sort of thing where nature fills the void...

But, with Harrison, Woodley and Polamalu hurt, only Ryan Clark stepped up on the defensive side of things...

On the offensive side, the time was ripe for Roethlisberger to take command of the locker room...he was too busy trying to undermine Todd Haley, apparently...

Mike Wallace was too busy pouting...

NorthCoast
01-19-2013, 11:52 AM
Usually, that is the sort of thing where nature fills the void...
........

The Steelers coaches said as much in an interview a couple years ago. Team leadership can't be forced. It is a natural process that someone emerges, and assumes the role. It usually comes with a few years experience by those that have high personal discipline and a balanced mentality.

Just not sure who that is on defense, or offense for that matter (I wouldn't say Ben has the highest personal discipline).

raycafan
01-19-2013, 01:28 PM
I am no CBA expert, in fact I really know nothing about it. But, from sampling of things read here and other places. It seems to me the players union worked the contract in the favor of themselves (as many would) when it comes to personal care. They did not want their employer telling them how to go about getting ready for their next season.By limited contact they no longer have to report on their individual off season workout. They wanted to be treated like adults and "trusted" they are doing it right. Therefore many of them are probably just doing it like they did through college, on their own. I could see this especially true for linemen and such. They are not needed to run 30 plus yards at a time so why train for it. So hit the power racks and get stronger and beefier. When in many cases they should really focus on being more limber in the process, takes away the robotic movements some have. Thus making them more fluid and really a little less susceptible to injury. Again not an expert, just an opinion.

tiproast
01-19-2013, 02:16 PM
They are not needed to run 30 plus yards at a time so why train for it. So hit the power racks and get stronger and beefier. When in many cases they should really focus on being more limber in the process, takes away the robotic movements some have. Thus making them more fluid and really a little less susceptible to injury. Again not an expert, just an opinion.
Not every team in the league believes that. Some teams think speed and quickness training (http://healthyliving.azcentral.com/offensive-lineman-speed-workouts-13143.html) is important for the offensive line.

SS Laser
01-19-2013, 02:20 PM
Add Chris Hoke as a leadership loss also. Was a career back up but trained/played like a starter. Heard on the fan the other day he was a bad ass in practice.

raycafan
01-19-2013, 11:42 PM
Not every team in the league believes that. Some teams think speed and quickness training (http://healthyliving.azcentral.com/offensive-lineman-speed-workouts-13143.html) is important for the offensive line.

I know not every team thinks that, which is a good thing. I am more for the agile, quick footed linemen than a big round ball of butter.

tiproast
01-20-2013, 02:16 AM
I know not every team thinks that, which is a good thing. I am more for the agile, quick footed linemen than a big round ball of butter.
I went back and read your post again, and I think I misinterpreted your position.

Sorry about that. I think we're in agreement about linemen and conditioning.

hawaiiansteel
01-20-2013, 02:34 AM
I went back and read your post again, and I think I misinterpreted your position.

Sorry about that. I think we're in agreement about linemen and conditioning.


Good luck tomorrow tip...:Cheers

tiproast
01-20-2013, 10:38 AM
Good luck tomorrow tip...:Cheers

Thanks. I know that most Steelers fans are wishing that both teams lose, but I'm hopeful that if the Patriots execute on both sides of the ball, it will be an entertaining game.

RuthlessBurgher
01-20-2013, 01:43 PM
Thanks. I know that most Steelers fans are wishing that both teams lose, but I'm hopeful that if the Patriots execute on both sides of the ball, it will be an entertaining game.

As long as Atlanta wins it all...;)

tiproast
01-20-2013, 01:51 PM
As long as Atlanta wins it all...;)

I would love to see the Pats take out the Harbaughs in back-to-back games.

NorthCoast
01-20-2013, 02:25 PM
I would love to see the Pats take out the Harbaughs in back-to-back games.

Probably the best consolation prize of the season, if both can be knocked one game from the Superbowl.