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View Full Version : Truth of the matter with WR in 2012



lloydroid
01-14-2013, 06:39 PM
For those in denial about the TRUTH about our WRs - soak this in. This supports everything I had been saying about the WRs.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1483763-5-ways-the-pittsburgh-steelers-can-help-ben-roethlisberger-get-better-in-2013/page/4




Pittsburgh's receiving corps experienced a huge letdown in 2012 as pending free agent Mike Wallace and emerging stars Antonio Brown and Emmanuel Sanders all took a giant step backward during the season.

Wallace, who's protracted holdout alienated the fanbase, became a player with almost zero effort who dropped easy passes and big-play balls alike.

Brown, who signed a nice extension before the season, became drop-prone as well and made some serious mental errors down the stretch on punt returns and on offense that led to losses.

Sanders simply couldn't get on track, but emerged from the season as the most consistent of the team's receivers.

In 2013, the Steelers must help Ben Roethlisberger by coaching the mistakes out of Brown and Sanders, replacing Wallace with free agent Plaxico Burress, who needs a bigger role out of the slot and in the red zone, and once again, involving possession receiver Jerricho Cotchery in the system.

Chadman
01-14-2013, 07:04 PM
Seeing as how Wallace is a 1 trick pony & easy to replace, the most concerning paragraph in that article is the 3rd one.

NorthCoast
01-14-2013, 07:54 PM
and BTW, a nice little fact to think about. Every winning QB except one this weekend ended up with > 8 yds/pass att. We all witnessed what a big, strong WR can do to save/make a play. There were plenty of 'jump balls' thrown up yesterday in every game, that were caught only by sheer strength to the ball. Ben desperately needs one. He's got the TE but without a wideout to grab that jump ball

lloydroid
01-14-2013, 08:00 PM
Seeing as how Wallace is a 1 trick pony & easy to replace, the most concerning paragraph in that article is the 3rd one.

I suspect that getting rid of Wallace with be addition through subtraction, and Brown will have his best season ever. When you have a buddy who has a bad team attitude, it tends to influence others in a negative way. Get rid of the crappy attitude Wallace and the unit will likely gain more positive attitudes.

lloydroid
01-14-2013, 08:02 PM
and BTW, a nice little fact to think about. Every winning QB except one this weekend ended up with > 8 yds/pass att. We all witnessed what a big, strong WR can do to save/make a play. There were plenty of 'jump balls' thrown up yesterday in every game, that were caught only by sheer strength to the ball. Ben desperately needs one. He's got the TE but without a wideout to grab that jump ball

Our #1 WR didn't even __TRY__ to muscle for a ball, or even bother to catch it at its highest point. The WRs you reference did. But, wasn't that once the trait of Plex? Is he just too old to function in that manner these days?

ikestops85
01-15-2013, 12:09 PM
Our #1 WR didn't even __TRY__ to muscle for a ball, or even bother to catch it at its highest point. The WRs you reference did. But, wasn't that once the trait of Plex? Is he just too old to function in that manner these days?

It's not only out muscling the defender for the ball, although that would be nice, but also forcing the pass interference. Burress, in his limited playing time, had 2 pass interference calls for us. One inside the 10 and the other in the endzone. He also provided that big body that Ben has been looking for since Burress left and that value showed with his TD catch in the last game.

I'm not sure how many plays Burress was on the field for this year but I would bet it was under 30 and he was responsible for 3 touchdowns. Not a bad ratio.

SidSmythe
01-15-2013, 12:16 PM
IT's Simple:
-Resign Burress and draft a WR (or 2)....its the only realistic option we have at this point.

phillyesq
01-15-2013, 12:18 PM
I suspect that getting rid of Wallace with be addition through subtraction, and Brown will have his best season ever. When you have a buddy who has a bad team attitude, it tends to influence others in a negative way. Get rid of the crappy attitude Wallace and the unit will likely gain more positive attitudes.

I hate to break it to you, but there is no world in which Plaxico Burress now is a better WR than Wallace.

Wallace had an awful year and will probably be overpaid, but his departure leaves the Steelers with a below average group of WRs and another hole that needs to be filled.

bowldog
01-15-2013, 12:37 PM
get rid of Plax and let Wallace go and draft 2 wr in the draft because we also need help on Special teams which neither can do at this point.

Mister Pittsburgh
01-15-2013, 12:43 PM
replacing Wallace with free agent Plaxico Burress, who needs a bigger role out of the slot and in the red zone

^^^^THIS

phillyesq
01-15-2013, 12:44 PM
get rid of Plax and let Wallace go and draft 2 wr in the draft because we also need help on Special teams which neither can do at this point.

The special teams issue is a good point. Part of why Plaxico was signed in the offseason and was deactivated is because neither he nor Cotchery play special teams. Hard to keep too many WRs who don't.

supersteeler
01-15-2013, 12:55 PM
Did anyone look at the Stats for Wallace prior to this year? He proved he can be very productive but this year he underperformed no doubt, but most players on that team underperformed thats why we are home.
Wallace is STILL the best receiver on the Steelers roster, even in his worst year he led all receivers in yards so I'm not going to trash the guy for one bad season.
We had a bad year so people are looking for scapegoats, you don't have to look too far plenty of goats on the steeler roster who had a bad year not just Wallace.
We didn't need a big receiver last year did we? and the year before? Thinking all of a sudden a big receiver will cure our ills isn't looking at the entire picture.

Slapstick
01-15-2013, 12:57 PM
Did anyone look at the Stats for Wallace prior to this year? He proved he can be very productive but this year he underperformed no doubt, but most players on that team underperformed thats why we are home.
Wallace is STILL the best receiver on the Steelers roster, even in his worst year he led all receivers in yards so I'm not going to trash the guy for one bad season.
We had a bad year so people are looking for scapegoats, you don't have to look too far plenty of goats on the steeler roster who had a bad year not just Wallace.
We didn't need a big receiver last year did we? and the year before? Thinking all of a sudden a big receiver will cure our ills isn't looking at the entire picture.

Over his last 23 games, Wallace did not prove that he was worth a big contract...that is not hate, that is a simple observation...

We didn't need a big WR in 2011 because we ran a different offense in 2011...with Haley's offense, a big WR will be able to thrive...

RuthlessBurgher
01-15-2013, 01:42 PM
I hate to break it to you, but there is no world in which Plaxico Burress now is a better WR than Wallace.

Wallace had an awful year and will probably be overpaid, but his departure leaves the Steelers with a below average group of WRs and another hole that needs to be filled.

Yeah, no kidding...Plaxico will turn THIRTY-SIX during training camp. He caught all of THREE PASSES this season (and only one catch in games that meant anything). Yeah...he's the answer. For those who lament Mike Wallace's attitude, do you forget that Plaxico's attitude was worse back when he was 26?

Mister Pittsburgh
01-15-2013, 01:50 PM
Yeah, no kidding...Plaxico will turn THIRTY-SIX during training camp. He caught all of THREE PASSES this season (and only one catch in games that meant anything). Yeah...he's the answer. For those who lament Mike Wallace's attitude, do you forget that Plaxico's attitude was worse back when he was 26?

Plax will cost a fraction of what Wallace will cost. He still has good hands and creates matchup problems against smaller defenders. Is he a long term fix? Obviously not. But may make a nice WR for 2013.

feltdizz
01-15-2013, 01:57 PM
Yeah, no kidding...Plaxico will turn THIRTY-SIX during training camp. He caught all of THREE PASSES this season (and only one catch in games that meant anything). Yeah...he's the answer. For those who lament Mike Wallace's attitude, do you forget that Plaxico's attitude was worse back when he was 26?

a bullet, jail cell and time changed all that. Plax isn't the answer but he is a short term solution.

..and Brown may have cost us a game or made some mental errors but it wasn't from a lack of trying. Brown has a few things to clean up but a bad attitude isn't one of them.

ikestops85
01-15-2013, 02:55 PM
Yeah, no kidding...Plaxico will turn THIRTY-SIX during training camp. He caught all of THREE PASSES this season (and only one catch in games that meant anything). Yeah...he's the answer. For those who lament Mike Wallace's attitude, do you forget that Plaxico's attitude was worse back when he was 26?

I don't think Plaxico is the answer or better than Wallace. I do think he could teach Wallace a couple of things that would make Mike a better receiver. How to draw a pass interference being one of them.

While Burress only caught 3 passes I think he was responsible for 3 touchdowns. Given he was rarely on the field I think that he has a great ratio of plays to steeler touchdowns.

lloydroid
01-15-2013, 02:58 PM
I hate to break it to you, but there is no world in which Plaxico Burress now is a better WR than Wallace.

Wallace had an awful year and will probably be overpaid, but his departure leaves the Steelers with a below average group of WRs and another hole that needs to be filled.

When is there an off season when a player leaving DOESN'T leave a hole at some position? It is the norm. Adjust, adapt, make it happen. Deal with it. Oh, and as much as Wallace played like a wet fart, he created a hole BY PLAYING in Pgh last season. We will be better without him. Watch and see.

lloydroid
01-15-2013, 03:00 PM
a bullet, jail cell and time changed all that. Plax isn't the answer but he is a short term solution.

..and Brown may have cost us a game or made some mental errors but it wasn't from a lack of trying. Brown has a few things to clean up but a bad attitude isn't one of them.

Brown will be better when his "young $" buddy is gone. But let's not forget the image of Brown just standing there, looking at the football in the end zone, and not bothering to bend over or fall on it, costing us a TD vs. SD, in a game that we lost. That certainly ___WAS___ an example of him not bothering to give any effort, for sure.

phillyesq
01-15-2013, 03:24 PM
When is their an off season when a player leaving DOESN'T leave a hole at some position? It is the norm. Adjust, adapt, make it happen. Deal with it. Oh, and as much as Wallace played like a wet fart, he created a hole BY PLAYING in Pgh last season. We will be better without him. Watch and see.

Typically the Steelers try to groom a backup plan. When Aaron Smith left, Ziggy stepped in. When Keisel goes, Heyward will step in. Foote taking over for Farrior.

There are holes that occur becuase of age and you cannot prevent those. Wallace is a younger player and that is the difference.

Again, I was as displeased with his play as anybody this year, but his departure will weaken the team.

Slapstick
01-15-2013, 03:35 PM
Brown will be better when his "young $" buddy is gone. But let's not forget the image of Brown just standing there, looking at the football in the end zone, and not bothering to bend over or fall on it, costing us a TD vs. SD, in a game that we lost. That certainly ___WAS___ an example of him not bothering to give any effort, for sure.

That wasn't a lack of effort...that was just being dumb...

When there is a loose football, just fall on it...he was so sure that it was an incomplete forward pass that he stupidly let it roll around in our endzone...

Brown works plenty hard and gives fantastic effort...now, he needs to play smarter...

papillon
01-15-2013, 03:54 PM
Typically the Steelers try to groom a backup plan. When Aaron Smith left, Ziggy stepped in. When Keisel goes, Heyward will step in. Foote taking over for Farrior.

There are holes that occur because of age and you cannot prevent those. Wallace is a younger player and that is the difference.

Again, I was as displeased with his play as anybody this year, but his departure will weaken the team.

The Steelers replaced Plax in his prime and continued to succeed, the Steelers replaced Santonio Holmes in his prime and continue to succeed and they'll replace Wallace in his prime and continue to succeed who isn't as good (IMO) as either Plax or Holmes in their primes. Because of changes in the game colleges are grooming more and more receivers for the NFL. Finding a replacement for Mike Wallace shouldn't be to tall of an order, he isn't in the caliber of Fitz, Johnson (Andre and Calvin), Jones (Julio), Green (AJ), White (Roddy), etc all of those guys go and high point the ball something Wallace can't or won't do. The 3rd or 4th round will probably produce Wallace's replacement.

Pappy

lloydroid
01-15-2013, 04:11 PM
That wasn't a lack of effort...that was just being dumb...

When there is a loose football, just fall on it...he was so sure that it was an incomplete forward pass that he stupidly let it roll around in our endzone...

Brown works plenty hard and gives fantastic effort...now, he needs to play smarter...

Being dumb is often the result of lacking effort or bothering to give a damn. When you aren't focused, you do dumb things. I threw my pool-cleaning robot in the water instead of "placing" it in the pool. It didn't break, but it could have. My wife asked me, "Why did you do that?" and I said, "I was just being stupid." Had I been paying more attention, I would not have done that. If I am playing in an NFL game, I would be paying attention the entire game; I don't know how you can just not pay attention with the stakes being so high. It doesn't make sense. Brown was not paying attention. Not acceptable.

lloydroid
01-15-2013, 04:14 PM
Typically the Steelers try to groom a backup plan. When Aaron Smith left, Ziggy stepped in. When Keisel goes, Heyward will step in. Foote taking over for Farrior.

There are holes that occur becuase of age and you cannot prevent those. Wallace is a younger player and that is the difference.

Again, I was as displeased with his play as anybody this year, but his departure will weaken the team.

There is far more to the quality of a team than merely the collection of talent. Chemistry is everything. Without it, no level of talent makes up for it, and MW was a chemistry destroyer last year. Him leaving will be a case of addition through subtraction. Watch and learn.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
01-15-2013, 04:25 PM
Although we all BELIEVE defense will be hot & heavy early we know the Steelers could do the opposite if Wallace leaves and target a WR. It would not surprise me in the very least that the Steelers are 100% confident in their previous drafts & UDFA on this team to fill the holes on defense in 2013 and maybe even after. I didn't say I agree with it....But they are the ones that know best.

If Wallace leaves & they don't sign Burress...Don't be surprised when the Steelers are on the clock a "Trade" is announced where the Steelers move down...And they end up taking Cordarrelle Patterson. I said it...I'm sure many won't like it...But he takes care of your #3 immediately & your KR/PR. I would say there is no reason to think he couldn't be your X as soon as the start of the season if he picks up the spot.

skyhawk
01-15-2013, 04:34 PM
Yancy Thigpen, Ernie Mills, and Andre Hastings were a better stable of WRs than we have now.

phillyesq
01-15-2013, 04:37 PM
The Steelers replaced Plax in his prime and continued to succeed, the Steelers replaced Santonio Holmes in his prime and continue to succeed and they'll replace Wallace in his prime and continue to succeed who isn't as good (IMO) as either Plax or Holmes in their primes. Because of changes in the game colleges are grooming more and more receivers for the NFL. Finding a replacement for Mike Wallace shouldn't be to tall of an order, he isn't in the caliber of Fitz, Johnson (Andre and Calvin), Jones (Julio), Green (AJ), White (Roddy), etc all of those guys go and high point the ball something Wallace can't or won't do. The 3rd or 4th round will probably produce Wallace's replacement.

Pappy

I'm not saying that Wallace is not replaceable. He is. But having to replace him is one more pick that can't be used on another area of need. And there is nobody waiting in the wings.

Even if the Steelers find a great replacement in the draft, he is not likely to be productive until at least year 2. Using the examples above, Santonio and Plaxico were both awful as rookies. Holmes cost the team a few games with his gaffes before winning the meaningless season finale with a late TD. The most productive rookie WR this year was TY Hilton - none of the rest made significant contributions.

This is a setback for the offense, even if tempoarary, and it takes awya from another resource on the field.

phillyesq
01-15-2013, 04:38 PM
Yancy Thigpen, Ernie Mills, and Andre Hastings were a better stable of WRs than we have now.

Don't forget Charles Johnson and, at times, Slash. That was a really solid group.

phillyesq
01-15-2013, 04:39 PM
Watch and learn.

GTH. I'm not going to be lectured by the board clown.

papillon
01-15-2013, 05:16 PM
I'm not saying that Wallace is not replaceable. He is. But having to replace him is one more pick that can't be used on another area of need. And there is nobody waiting in the wings.

Even if the Steelers find a great replacement in the draft, he is not likely to be productive until at least year 2. Using the examples above, Santonio and Plaxico were both awful as rookies. Holmes cost the team a few games with his gaffes before winning the meaningless season finale with a late TD. The most productive rookie WR this year was TY Hilton - none of the rest made significant contributions.

This is a setback for the offense, even if temporary, and it takes away from another resource on the field.

I agree with you 100% and it would be better if they don't have to use a pick to replace Wallace. Hopefully, only a temporary setback, but the good news is that Ben has managed throughout his career to get by using average to slightly above average and one HOF receiver and being successful. But, if they can find his replacement where they found him (3rd I think) it wouldn't be a horrible waste of resource. We'll see where this takes the Steelers once free agency can start and the offers start heading Wallace's way.

Pappy

lloydroid
01-15-2013, 05:36 PM
Yancy Thigpen, Ernie Mills, and Andre Hastings were a better stable of WRs than we have now.

Very underrated. Yancey, when healthy - which was about ever other year - was a top 5 WR. He was outstanding, even if for only a few year. Mills and Hastings were solid if not spectacular. They also had Kordell Stewart playing WR that season, and he was a serious play maker playing that position.

Sugar
01-15-2013, 06:28 PM
Yancy Thigpen, Ernie Mills, and Andre Hastings were a better stable of WRs than we have now.

I cannot tell you how much I vehemently disagree with this...

lloydroid
01-15-2013, 06:47 PM
I cannot tell you how much I vehemently disagree with this...

I don't recall any of those guys dropping balls like Brown, Wallace and Sanders did this season, ever.

NorthCoast
01-15-2013, 10:30 PM
Yeah, no kidding...Plaxico will turn THIRTY-SIX during training camp. He caught all of THREE PASSES this season (and only one catch in games that meant anything). Yeah...he's the answer. For those who lament Mike Wallace's attitude, do you forget that Plaxico's attitude was worse back when he was 26?

Yes, and Randy Moss is 35 probably headed to the Superbowl, and was a key on several plays for the Niners last week.
If used correctly, there is no reason why Plax cannot contribute and be a part of the offense for the 2013 season.

phillyesq
01-15-2013, 10:36 PM
Yes, and Randy Moss is 35 probably headed to the Superbowl, and was a key on several plays for the Niners last week.
If used correctly, there is no reason why Plax cannot contribute and be a part of the offense for the 2013 season.

He can contribute and be a part of the offense. But counting on him as a starter, replacing the person who was counted on to be the #1 WR in the offense, is pure folly.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
01-15-2013, 11:12 PM
Yes, and Randy Moss is 35 probably headed to the Superbowl, and was a key on several plays for the Niners last week.
If used correctly, there is no reason why Plax cannot contribute and be a part of the offense for the 2013 season.

Both of them at their peak.......Plex could not hold Moss' jock. And I was a supporter of keeping Plex before he was not retained, but Moss is one of the best we have seen in this generation.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
01-15-2013, 11:14 PM
Very underrated. Yancey, when healthy - which was about ever other year - was a top 5 WR. He was outstanding, even if for only a few year. Mills and Hastings were solid if not spectacular. They also had Kordell Stewart playing WR that season, and he was a serious play maker playing that position.

Agree that Thigpen was way underrated. I remember him making spectacular catches on balls thrown by Kordell that made KS look good. He did not get the recognition as he was never healthy after leaving the Steelers.

Chadman
01-15-2013, 11:34 PM
http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/3299818-74/season-receiver-steelers#axzz2I6bl5s20

Another article worth reading about the WR's..

feltdizz
01-16-2013, 12:46 AM
That wasn't a lack of effort...that was just being dumb...

When there is a loose football, just fall on it...he was so sure that it was an incomplete forward pass that he stupidly let it roll around in our endzone...

Brown works plenty hard and gives fantastic effort...now, he needs to play smarter...
It looked like Brown tried to pick it up instear of falling on it or kicking it out of bounds. I'm not going to put too much blame on that play because we were manhandled all day. A bubble screen at the GL was a horrible idea..