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View Full Version : Give a choice, I'd take Russell Wilson over Ben right now.



lloydroid
01-14-2013, 04:05 PM
Did you see this guy battle back vs. Atl? Dear WORD, this kid is good. He is a better QB, right NOW, then is Bonehead Ben. He can buy time in the pocket, and out side of it, BETTER than BB, plus makes better decisions on where to go with the ball. I give Pete Carrol kudos for having the stones, and the wisdom, to go with this rookie instead of their high priced QB free agent vet. Seattle still lost, but this guy brought them back on a furious pace. Ben gets so much credit for keeping a play alive, but takes a pounding in doing so and makes some real bonehead decisions with careless decisions. This guy is already superior in buying time, creating plays and the accuracy on his throws. I know most of us like to consider BB an elite QB, but this new crop of QBs is quickly leaving BB in the rear view mirror as a possible top 5 QB. As a matter of fact, if given the choice, I would choose all of these QBs BEFORE BB if I had an NFL team.

Brady
Rogers
Matt Ryan
Peyton Manning - although age is a concern
Colin Rand Kaepernick
Russell Wilson
Luck
RG3 - although knee injury a concern
Brees

And I would add in Cam Newton if he bounces back from a sophomore slump, which I think he will.

That puts BB out of the top 10 in my mind - just out of it, but out of it nonetheless.

Sorry but Russell Wilson is the real deal. And so is Kaepernick, with his wicked athletic ability paired with a cannon of an arm. These guys are the new big time QBs in the NFL; BB no longer is the current big time QB. Those days are already gone. Oh, and Brady is as deadly as ever. Amazing how he and the Pats contend every year - just amazing.

legend of polamalu
01-14-2013, 04:42 PM
People forget really easy that Ben was having an MVP year before he got injured...
How long have yu been a fan? Cause I remember the comebacks that Ben has made and will never forget them...I will also remember the several yet to come by BB.

Ben is not our problem people!

7 UP
01-14-2013, 04:44 PM
Cmon man, get a grip on reality

lloydroid
01-14-2013, 04:48 PM
People forget really easy that Ben was having an MVP year before he got injured...
How long have yu been a fan? Cause I remember the comebacks that Ben has made and will never forget them...I will also remember the several yet to come by BB.

Ben is not our problem people!

Yea, BB used to make come backs all the time. How has he been lately? The last Super Bowl? This season?
Not happening anymore. BB used to be clutch; now coming down the stretch of the most important games,
he just isn't getting it done. We needed him vs. Dallas or Cinci to make the post season, and with two
opportunities to win both games, he came up empty, big time.

lloydroid
01-14-2013, 04:48 PM
Cmon man, get a grip on reality

Offer specifics and make an argument. What is not in accordance with reality? Which of those QBs are not superior to BB at this point?

feltdizz
01-14-2013, 04:50 PM
LOL... Russell Wilson is who Ben used to be when Ben was a rookie. I would love to have the hot hand right now but who knows how they are going to play next year or 2 or 3 years down the road. Ben used to scoot for 1st downs and keep the D honest with his feet.

I complain...I'm still mad.... but you... you sound like you don't even like this team.

7 UP
01-14-2013, 04:58 PM
Wilson has one full season under his belt and Kaepernick has even less than that. Those two guys could have Hall of Fame careers or be benched halfway through next year, and anywhere in between. Remember when Vince Young had his one good year in this league? Led the Titans to the playoffs right? How did that end up for him?

To mention any of these guys names in the same sentence with Ben at this point in their careers is ridiculous. Lets let these flavor of the year QBs get a few years under their belt before we give them a gold jacket.

Sugar
01-14-2013, 04:58 PM
You would take Russell Wilson? Good for you, he's a heck of a player. Are you looking to trade for him or something? Aside from looking for an opportunity to slam Ben, do you have a point?

legend of polamalu
01-14-2013, 05:02 PM
You know Russell Wilson is exactly where Ben is right---On his couch. Differnce is Ben is polishing his rings!

feltdizz
01-14-2013, 05:06 PM
I think Loid is just admiring Wilson's play... but just threw Ben in it so it would stay on the board.

lloydroid
01-14-2013, 05:07 PM
LOL... Russell Wilson is who Ben used to be when Ben was a rookie. I would love to have the hot hand right now but who knows how they are going to play next year or 2 or 3 years down the road. Ben used to scoot for 1st downs and keep the D honest with his feet.

I complain...I'm still mad.... but you... you sound like you don't even like this team.

Yea, you're right: I don't like ___THIS___ team, because I am a Steelers fan and this current version of the team I love is a disgrace, so why would I like a team that I support that is a disgrace? They lack discipline, focus and effort. I despise when my favorite team has those qualities. So, yup, I don't like it in the condition it is. If I had a son who was a criminal I would love my son, but not the current state of that son.

lloydroid
01-14-2013, 05:10 PM
I think Loid is just admiring Wilson's play... but just threw Ben in it so it would stay on the board.

As I admire another team/player, I cannot help but to compare and contrast said player/team to the Steelers. It's only natural. People do it on this board daily. That Wilson dude is a stone cold killer. And he is far less sloppy then BB, he is focused and sharp, as opposed to Bonehead Ben, who is lackadaisical and careless.

lloydroid
01-14-2013, 05:12 PM
You would take Russell Wilson? Good for you, he's a heck of a player. Are you looking to trade for him or something? Aside from looking for an opportunity to slam Ben, do you have a point?

I think my point was abundantly clear: I accurately perceived Wilson as a superior QB to what Ben is. Right now, RW is already a better player than the current version of BB - period, end of story. And who would have ever thought that would be the case of this rookie QB. I know I would have never predicted that before this season. No way. And yet, it is a reality.

lloydroid
01-14-2013, 05:14 PM
You know Russell Wilson is exactly where Ben is right---On his couch. Differnce is Ben is polishing his rings!

He better keep the polish out as Wilson has a far better chance of winning rings in the next 5 years than does Ben. Look at the immediate future of the two QBs and teams: who's future looks brighter? It's not even close. Oh, and the difference is that Wilson MADE IT TO THE POST SEASON this year, how did Ben do on that front? FAIL.

lloydroid
01-14-2013, 05:19 PM
Wilson has one full season under his belt and Kaepernick has even less than that. Those two guys could have Hall of Fame careers or be benched halfway through next year, and anywhere in between. Remember when Vince Young had his one good year in this league? Led the Titans to the playoffs right? How did that end up for him?

To mention any of these guys names in the same sentence with Ben at this point in their careers is ridiculous. Lets let these flavor of the year QBs get a few years under their belt before we give them a gold jacket.

VY has a flawed character. Neither of these guys show any sign of poor attitude. VY is mentally weak. Check back with me in a few years and lets re-visit where these two QBs rate. And where BB rates as well. Both CK and RW illuminate stellar focus, drive and effort. BB already thinks he's a god and god's don't need to put in all that much effort, as Ben takes his sloppy play on the field and is late game pics ruined our chance at the post season. He blew it with game-losing pics vs. Dallas and Cinci that cost us the season. But, Mr. "What me worry" just will be rolling with his unfocused, undisciplined play and the days of contention will not return until he gives a crap. He clearly doesn't really now.

Sugar
01-14-2013, 05:26 PM
I think my point was abundantly clear: I accurately perceived Wilson as a superior QB to what Ben is. Right now, RW is already a better player than the current version of BB - period, end of story. And who would have ever thought that would be the case of this rookie QB. I know I would have never predicted that before this season. No way. And yet, it is a reality.

OK, so what is your point? Do you want to trade for him or were you just looking to extol the young man's virtues? You could have started a thread about liking Alfred Morris over Mendenhall or Tony Gonzalez over Heath, but you didn't. I just figured you might have a real point.

papillon
01-14-2013, 05:30 PM
There's tape on these guys now, lets see how they all do next year after DCs have a chance to really digest the offenses, tendencies, etc. The read option that RGIII and KaepernikGreat, you think Ben stinks, that's your prerogative, but he is a proven winner for 9 years, not just one. I'll take Ben until he retires and you can go pick out the latest and greatest quarterback based on a couple games.

Pappy

NW Steeler
01-14-2013, 05:38 PM
There's tape on these guys now, lets see how they all do next year after DCs have a chance to really digest the offenses, tendencies, etc. The read option that RGIII and KaepernikGreat, you think Ben stinks, that's your prerogative, but he is a proven winner for 9 years, not just one. I'll take Ben until he retires and you can go pick out the latest and greatest quarterback based on a couple games.

Pappy

Exactly! I love Wilson, and wanted to the Steelers to daft him as a backup, but lets see how his career progresses before we have him fitted for his HOF jacket. That said I think he will continue to be a very good QB. But I would still take Ben in a heartbeat. He was on track for his best season ever before he was hurt.

7 UP
01-14-2013, 05:44 PM
On a side not has anyone noticed that Kaepernik has the throwing motion of a young Byron Leftwich??? That ought to take him far in this league.

Eich
01-14-2013, 05:49 PM
There's tape on these guys now, lets see how they all do next year after DCs have a chance to really digest the offenses, tendencies, etc. The read option that RGIII and KaepernikGreat, you think Ben stinks, that's your prerogative, but he is a proven winner for 9 years, not just one. I'll take Ben until he retires and you can go pick out the latest and greatest quarterback based on a couple games.

Pappy

Agreed. It's funny how people flock to the flavor-of-the-day when it comes to quarterbacks.

Wasn't long ago that Cam Newton was the best thing since sliced bread. Some of these new guys (Cam, Wilson, Kapernik, Luck, RGIII, etc..) may turn out to be HOF material. But you can't tell from a single season. The best QB's do it consistently over time.

feltdizz
01-14-2013, 05:59 PM
On a side not has anyone noticed that Kaepernik has the throwing motion of a young Byron Leftwich??? That ought to take him far in this league.

No... not at all. Never looked at his throwing motion...

bowldog
01-14-2013, 06:05 PM
I would take Kapernick from SF, but not for Ben. These guys are Rookies (successful) for crying out loud.

bowldog
01-14-2013, 06:11 PM
Are you bringing the offenses with them, because none of those guys would not survive behind our O line?Maybe Romo can because he's doing the same thing in Dallas.

Did you see this guy battle back vs. Atl? Dear WORD, this kid is good. He is a better QB, right NOW, then is Bonehead Ben. He can buy time in the pocket, and out side of it, BETTER than BB, plus makes better decisions on where to go with the ball. I give Pete Carrol kudos for having the stones, and the wisdom, to go with this rookie instead of their high priced QB free agent vet. Seattle still lost, but this guy brought them back on a furious pace. Ben gets so much credit for keeping a play alive, but takes a pounding in doing so and makes some real bonehead decisions with careless decisions. This guy is already superior in buying time, creating plays and the accuracy on his throws. I know most of us like to consider BB an elite QB, but this new crop of QBs is quickly leaving BB in the rear view mirror as a possible top 5 QB. As a matter of fact, if given the choice, I would choose all of these QBs BEFORE BB if I had an NFL team.

Brady
Rogers
Matt Ryan
Peyton Manning - although age is a concern
Colin Rand Kaepernick
Russell Wilson
Luck
RG3 - although knee injury a concern
Brees

And I would add in Cam Newton if he bounces back from a sophomore slump, which I think he will.

That puts BB out of the top 10 in my mind - just out of it, but out of it nonetheless.

Sorry but Russell Wilson is the real deal. And so is Kaepernick, with his wicked athletic ability paired with a cannon of an arm. These guys are the new big time QBs in the NFL; BB no longer is the current big time QB. Those days are already gone. Oh, and Brady is as deadly as ever. Amazing how he and the Pats contend every year - just amazing.

lloydroid
01-14-2013, 06:43 PM
OK, so what is your point? Do you want to trade for him or were you just looking to extol the young man's virtues? You could have started a thread about liking Alfred Morris over Mendenhall or Tony Gonzalez over Heath, but you didn't. I just figured you might have a real point.

IDK, I like adhering to reality a little bit; it's completely absurd that we could trade for Russell and you most likely realize that, but are just trying to be funny. The point is obvious: I (and most thinking fans) know that Russell, right now, is a better QB than is BB. Why is this significant? Because virtually no fan on earth could have predicted that would be the case before the season started; but, since Ben has got worse, and RW has played so much better than anyone anticipated, it is true, nonetheless. I feel that is more than a little noteworthy.

lloydroid
01-14-2013, 06:46 PM
There's tape on these guys now, lets see how they all do next year after DCs have a chance to really digest the offenses, tendencies, etc. The read option that RGIII and KaepernikGreat, you think Ben stinks, that's your prerogative, but he is a proven winner for 9 years, not just one. I'll take Ben until he retires and you can go pick out the latest and greatest quarterback based on a couple games.

Pappy

Your evaluation of Ben is myopic. You are viewing his current skill based on the past, but he no longer offers the same quality of play. If anything, he cost us the play offs this year, throwing two game-losing pics in the games we needed to win coming down the stretch. The QBs I admire are the ones who are CURRENTLY offering superior play - not ones who sloppiness and undisciplined ways cost us the post season.

Mister Pittsburgh
01-14-2013, 06:48 PM
Give Ben Seattle's offensive line, WR's, and Marhawn Lynch and Robert Turbin and then let's compare. Ben doesn't do the drafting or roster management around here.

lloydroid
01-14-2013, 06:48 PM
Exactly! I love Wilson, and wanted to the Steelers to daft him as a backup, but lets see how his career progresses before we have him fitted for his HOF jacket. That said I think he will continue to be a very good QB. But I would still take Ben in a heartbeat. He was on track for his best season ever before he was hurt.

Unfortunately, his injury seemed to impact his brain as much as his body. He just made hurky jerky decisions, throwing pics right into coverage, to end our chance at the play offs.

toddjammin
01-14-2013, 06:52 PM
how many more ben posters do you have to start?

lloydroid
01-14-2013, 06:52 PM
Give Ben Seattle's offensive line, WR's, and Marhawn Lynch and Robert Turbin and then let's compare. Ben doesn't do the drafting or roster management around here.

Sorry, this doesn't pass the eye ball test. Did you watch Wilson play? It wasn't a matter of him having superior O-line play, etc. He bought time better than BB ever has, and he makes wise decisions on where to go with the ball, and then delivers the ball with great accuracy. That had nothing to do with the players around him. He is a BALLER out there, much more so then Ben is at this point. I will give them this: Seattle's DBs are far superior to ours - that much is obvious. But wide outs? Pgh was touted early and often as having one of the best WR units in the NFL. Of course, as the lack of discipline and effort ran through our team, that once-proud WR unit turned out to be a big pile of stinking crap.

lloydroid
01-14-2013, 06:54 PM
how many more ben posters do you have to start?

This thread was a comparison between an up-in-coming QB star, and our fading QB star. Very topical, very appropriate.

And, a "poster" is something you hang up on a wall, not a post to a message board. In other words, I had a Farrah Facet poster on my wall at one point, but it had nothing to do with an Internet message board.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gQHUuLuC3rg/UHToK6CFJXI/AAAAAAAAC3g/woAfACYJG_Q/s1600/farah-fawcett-famous-iconic-swimsuit-poster-bruce-mcbroom-HQ.jpg

lloydroid
01-14-2013, 06:59 PM
Are you bringing the offenses with them, because none of those guys would not survive behind our O line?Maybe Romo can because he's doing the same thing in Dallas.

Have you watched RW play? He gets away from the rush better than Ben ever did or could. It's hardly as if Seattle gives him all this extra time to throw; he creates the time himself on an amazing level.

lloydroid
01-14-2013, 07:01 PM
On a side not has anyone noticed that Kaepernik has the throwing motion of a young Byron Leftwich??? That ought to take him far in this league.

If you think CK is similar to a Leftwich, you are crazy. For one thing, BL has cinder block shoes; he can't move any where; this CK has blazing legs. And a cannon for an arm. BL is NOTHING like this guy.

Chadman
01-14-2013, 07:08 PM
Did you see this guy battle back vs. Atl? Dear WORD, this kid is good. He is a better QB, right NOW, then is Bonehead Ben. He can buy time in the pocket, and out side of it, BETTER than BB, plus makes better decisions on where to go with the ball. I give Pete Carrol kudos for having the stones, and the wisdom, to go with this rookie instead of their high priced QB free agent vet. Seattle still lost, but this guy brought them back on a furious pace. Ben gets so much credit for keeping a play alive, but takes a pounding in doing so and makes some real bonehead decisions with careless decisions. This guy is already superior in buying time, creating plays and the accuracy on his throws. I know most of us like to consider BB an elite QB, but this new crop of QBs is quickly leaving BB in the rear view mirror as a possible top 5 QB. As a matter of fact, if given the choice, I would choose all of these QBs BEFORE BB if I had an NFL team.

Brady
Rogers
Matt Ryan
Peyton Manning - although age is a concern
Colin Rand Kaepernick
Russell Wilson
Luck
RG3 - although knee injury a concern
Brees

And I would add in Cam Newton if he bounces back from a sophomore slump, which I think he will.

That puts BB out of the top 10 in my mind - just out of it, but out of it nonetheless.

Sorry but Russell Wilson is the real deal. And so is Kaepernick, with his wicked athletic ability paired with a cannon of an arm. These guys are the new big time QBs in the NFL; BB no longer is the current big time QB. Those days are already gone. Oh, and Brady is as deadly as ever. Amazing how he and the Pats contend every year - just amazing.

What Chadman read:

"I haven't said anything controversial enough to elicit 100 replies today, so here I go..."

Chadman
01-14-2013, 07:10 PM
If you think CK is similar to a Leftwich, you are crazy. For one thing, BL has cinder block shoes; he can't move any where; this CK has blazing legs. And a cannon for an arm. BL is NOTHING like this guy.

Chadman likes how you took the comparison of throwing motions & made it a complete QB comparison... well done. It's like saying that Sean Spence's dreads look nothing like Willie Gay's dreads used to because Spence plays linebacker.

NJ-STEELER
01-14-2013, 07:14 PM
i'd take Luck and think about RG3. but guys like kap and RW have to prove it to me a bit longer. they dont have the pedigree of the other 2

there will be lots of tape of these guys next year (see newton this year) lets see how they adjust.

and kap is on a team thats loaded offensively

lloydroid
01-14-2013, 07:31 PM
What Chadman read:

"I haven't said anything controversial enough to elicit 100 replies today, so here I go..."

What lloydroid read: "Look at me and my horse again. I will rip on others just to show off my horse again."

lloydroid
01-14-2013, 07:33 PM
i'd take Luck and think about RG3. but guys like kap and RW have to prove it to me a bit longer. they dont have the pedigree of the other 2

there will be lots of tape of these guys next year (see newton this year) lets see how they adjust.

and kap is on a team thats loaded offensively

When one is predicting the future play of a player, they are incorporating "vision" and "insights" - that doesn't mean they are facts - it means they are opposite of facts, but that doesn't mean they won't be proven true in the future. Players without great pedigrees can still end up being great players. What was Brady's pedigree when he was drafted?

lloydroid
01-14-2013, 07:37 PM
Chadman likes how you took the comparison of throwing motions & made it a complete QB comparison... well done. It's like saying that Sean Spence's dreads look nothing like Willie Gay's dreads used to because Spence plays linebacker.

No, that's nothing at all what it's like. Poster said, "Ck throwing delivery looks like Leftwich's...good luck with that." That means that he is saying that similar throwing motion = similar over all results; he made that relation not I. I then pointed out the vast difference between the two QBs, as a similar throwing motion IS NOT representative of player on whole. So I am making the distinction, so all you are doing is agreeing with my assertion. Try not to vomit as you realize my logic is perfect and yours is vastly flawed.

Chadman
01-14-2013, 07:38 PM
What lloydroid read: "Look at me and my horse again. I will rip on others just to show off my horse again."

So you got that? Excellent. Got the messege across.

supersteeler
01-14-2013, 07:39 PM
Choice? OK, Give me an O-line that can actually block and we're on our way to #7 with Ben!!!

lloydroid
01-14-2013, 07:39 PM
i'd take Luck and think about RG3. but guys like kap and RW have to prove it to me a bit longer. they dont have the pedigree of the other 2

there will be lots of tape of these guys next year (see newton this year) lets see how they adjust.

and kap is on a team thats loaded offensively

You must not have really watched him play, as, if you did, you'd realize he was making plays all over the field, regardless of the talent surrounding him. He just balls with both his legs and cannon arm. You can't give the credit of those plays to the other players on the field. Other players don't give you lightening speed or a cannon arm. That has to come FROM the QB, not others.

Djfan
01-14-2013, 07:43 PM
Wow. Some threads make it hard to say "Hey, check out planetsteelers.com for good Steeler talk."

This is one of them. Just embarrassing, knee-jerk, over reaction to an injury. Unbelievable.

Chadman
01-14-2013, 07:49 PM
No, that's nothing at all what it's like. Poster said, "Ck throwing delivery looks like Leftwich's...good luck with that." That means that he is saying that similar throwing motion = similar over all results; he made that relation not I. I then pointed out the vast difference between the two QBs, as a similar throwing motion IS NOT representative of player on whole. So I am making the distinction, so all you are doing is agreeing with my assertion. Try not to vomit as you realize my logic is perfect and yours is vastly flawed.

The comparison was in the throwing motion. You included the added extras. There's a difference between being witty & clever, and being a loudmouth punk. When you realise the difference, get back to us.

Mister Pittsburgh
01-14-2013, 07:51 PM
Sorry, this doesn't pass the eye ball test. Did you watch Wilson play? It wasn't a matter of him having superior O-line play, etc. He bought time better than BB ever has, and he makes wise decisions on where to go with the ball, and then delivers the ball with great accuracy. That had nothing to do with the players around him. He is a BALLER out there, much more so then Ben is at this point. I will give them this: Seattle's DBs are far superior to ours - that much is obvious. But wide outs? Pgh was touted early and often as having one of the best WR units in the NFL. Of course, as the lack of discipline and effort ran through our team, that once-proud WR unit turned out to be a big pile of stinking crap.

You're making a fool of yourself on this board. If that is your goal then kudos to you for reaching it. Yes I watched the Seahawks play and their OL and RB's are far superior to ours...especially the OL we had the second half of the season.

Snatch98
01-14-2013, 07:51 PM
You're making a fool of yourself on this board. If that is your goal then kudos to you for reaching it. Yes I watched the Seahawks play and their OL and RB's are far superior to ours...especially the OL we had the second half of the season.

It's all he does here.

lloydroid
01-14-2013, 08:04 PM
Wow. Some threads make it hard to say "Hey, check out planetsteelers.com for good Steeler talk."

This is one of them. Just embarrassing, knee-jerk, over reaction to an injury. Unbelievable.

In order to assess players and teams compared to each other, you must watch the other teams and players and apply vision. Apparently, you have not done this.

lloydroid
01-14-2013, 08:06 PM
You're making a fool of yourself on this board. If that is your goal then kudos to you for reaching it.

You can fully expect a warning or suspension, as you clearly are breaking board rules.


You may, from time to time, find yourself in disagreement with someone else's opinion. At times like these, please keep in mind it's safer and more polite to take issue with the comments rather than the person.

Statements or postings that violate the above terms will be deleted from postings upon discovery. While we may attempt to notify you if we move or delete a post, we are under no obligation to do so. Depending on the nature of the violation, the Planet Steelers community at their sole discretion may terminate a customer's account.

o Any communication that is intended to harass, belittle, humiliate, threaten or cause embarrassment to a fellow member

NorthCoast
01-14-2013, 08:07 PM
LOL... Russell Wilson is who Ben used to be when Ben was a rookie. I would love to have the hot hand right now but who knows how they are going to play next year or 2 or 3 years down the road. Ben used to scoot for 1st downs and keep the D honest with his feet.

I complain...I'm still mad.... but you... you sound like you don't even like this team.

This.

Let's see how RW does with a few hits on that body of his. Look how ordinary RGIII was after his injury. The NFL has a way of making QBs pay for being an NFL QB... only the strong shall survive. Let's see where RW is after a few years into this.

supersteeler
01-14-2013, 08:11 PM
Kapernick has an O-line thats putting 3 starters in the PRO BOWL, thats a big difference AND the 49ers have a run game to help him out as well.

DukieBoy
01-14-2013, 08:18 PM
Feeding the Attention Jones, boys.

21 of 50 posts on this thread from one source.

Chucktownsteeler
01-14-2013, 08:21 PM
On paper, the 49ers maybe the best team in the league. Ben has a cobbled together offensive line and 3 or 4 running backs that have no business being in the NFL. In fact, one just got cut. Factor in his receivers couldn't catch a cold this year.

Steelhere10
01-14-2013, 08:34 PM
The man stated what he thought and you can't knock him for that, but when you put Matt R. over Ben you lost me on that.. He is another big time choker in the makings with better protection ,wr's and te.

lloydroid
01-14-2013, 08:37 PM
The man stated what he thought and you can't knock him for that, but when you put Matt R. over Ben you lost me on that.. He is another big time choker in the makings with better protection ,wr's and te.

You might be right. I think this season might tell us which way the evaluation of Matt Ice will go. If he beats SF, then you have to lift the choker label off him. Matter of fact, finding a way to win this last game vs. Seattle was huge in my book. Seattle was the hottest team in the NFL, took a very late lead, but Matty Ice still found a way to win.

lloydroid
01-14-2013, 08:42 PM
There's a difference between being witty & clever, and being a loudmouth punk.

Name calling is against board rules.


You may, from time to time, find yourself in disagreement with someone else's opinion. At times like these, please keep in mind it's safer and more polite to take issue with the comments rather than the person.

Statements or postings that violate the above terms will be deleted from postings upon discovery. While we may attempt to notify you if we move or delete a post, we are under no obligation to do so. Depending on the nature of the violation, the Planet Steelers community at their sole discretion may terminate a customer's account.

o Any communication that is intended to harass, belittle, humiliate, threaten or cause embarrassment to a fellow member

lloydroid
01-14-2013, 08:44 PM
So you got that? Excellent. Got the messege across.

Yes, glad you can admit to it, although your breaking of board rules is going to have a negative impact on you.

7 UP
01-14-2013, 08:47 PM
The comparison was in the throwing motion. You included the added extras. There's a difference between being witty & clever, and being a loudmouth punk. When you realise the difference, get back to us.

Thank you Chadman. Im glad someone read my comment. I never said anything about mobility. CK has a long Leftwichesc delivery and IMO it will hinder his career the same way it did Leftwich. Comparison stops there.

Steelhere10
01-14-2013, 08:49 PM
You might be right. I think this season might tell us which way the evaluation of Matt Ice will go. If he beats SF, then you have to lift the choker label off him. Matter of fact, finding a way to win this last game vs. Seattle was huge in my book. Seattle was the hottest team in the NFL, took a very late lead, but Matty Ice still found a way to win.Do you realize that was Matt first win and first 200 yd gm in the playoffs. Even if he beat SF i bet it wont have anything to do with his performance.

Mister Pittsburgh
01-14-2013, 08:52 PM
You can fully expect a warning or suspension, as you clearly are breaking board rules.

My comment did none of what it says are against the rules.

lloydroid
01-14-2013, 08:59 PM
Thank you Chadman. Im glad someone read my comment. I never said anything about mobility. CK has a long Leftwichesc delivery and IMO it will hinder his career the same way it did Leftwich. Comparison stops there.

No, it doesn't stop there. You said, "We will see how that works out for him" implying he will be as inferior as a QB as BL was. You _DO_ know you implied that, right? Now, the reason why this is faulty logic is because CK uses his legs to put himself in position to find open targets; as he scrambles around he creates large, open windows, where, even with a long wind up, can easily be thrown to. BL, and his cinder block feet, can't create those large, open windows, hence his long wind up is more of a problem. Ever play even back yard football? What happens when a QB creates a play that goes for more than a few seconds? That's right: It's impossible to keep the WRs covered. That is what the PACKAGE skill set of CK causes. Hence, your comparison is faulty.

lloydroid
01-14-2013, 09:02 PM
My comment did none of what it says are against the rules.

When you call someone a "fool" is that a case of name calling? Is it against board rules to call other posters names? Yes and yet.


You're making a fool of yourself on this board.

Read the above. You wrote that. You are clearing immersed in calling others names. It is against the board rules.

Steelhere10
01-14-2013, 09:17 PM
But to be fair i would take all the names mention over Ben as far as professional attitude towards the game and maybe work ethic but not their body of work only a couple would get that.
Rodgers
Brady
Brees. Maybe 1 or 2 more that's it.
I never seen a QB whine as much as Ben, I think it's all about him.

lloydroid
01-14-2013, 09:30 PM
But to be fair i would take all the names mention over Ben as far as professional attitude towards the game and maybe work ethic but not their body of work only a couple would get that.
Rodgers
Brady
Brees. Maybe 1 or 2 more that's it.
I never seen a QB whine as much as Ben, I think it's all about him.

He just comes across as fake. He likes to pretend he is all high class with certain quotes but then will always slip in little trap doors of injuries, giving himself ready excuses if he loses. I used to get excited by watching/listening to him address the linemen before games; now it feels at least partly fake and you can tell by their body language that the linemen don't totally buy it either.

DBR96A
01-15-2013, 04:21 AM
How long have yu been a fan?
If he's an old-timer, then he's probably one of those who made Terry Bradshaw and Kordell Stewart feel unwelcome in Pittsburgh.

DBR96A
01-15-2013, 04:58 AM
So now Matt Ryan is better than Ben Roethlisberger, huh? Let us do compare their post-season performances...


Completion percentage

60.6% - Ben Roethlisberger
64.8% - Matt Ryan

Advantage: Matt Ryan


Passing yards per game

225.0 - Ben Roethlisberger
208.5 - Matt Ryan

Advantage: Ben Roethlisberger


Yards per pass attempt

7.7 - Ben Roethlisberger
5.8 - Matt Ryan

Advantage: Ben Roethlisberger


TD percentage

4.9% - Ben Roethlisberger
4.1% - Matt Ryan

Advantage: Ben Roethlisberger


INT percentage

4.2% - Ben Roethlisberger
4.1% - Matt Ryan

Advantage: Matt Ryan


TD/INT ratio

1.18 - Ben Roethlisberger
1.00 - Matt Ryan

Advantage: Ben Roethlisberger


Passer rating

83.7 - Ben Roethlisberger
76.6 - Matt Ryan

Advantage: Ben Roethlisberger


Matt Ryan has the advantage in completion percentage and INT percentage. Ben Roethlisberger has the advantage in passing yards per game, yards per pass attempt, TD percentage, TD/INT ratio and passer rating. It's also worth noting that Matt Ryan, since he entered the league in 2008, has always had better weapons on offense than Roethlisberger has.

Michael Turner has 1,411 carries for 6,081 yards, 4.3 YPC and 60 TDs with the Falcons. In the same period of time, Rashard Mendenhall has 547 fewer carries, 2,532 fewer yards, 0.2 fewer YPC and 31 fewer TDs. And the Falcons currently have more reliable WRs (two) than the Steelers have ever had with Roethlisberger (one), plus a Hall-of-Fame TE. Poor Heath Miller was underutilized until Todd Haley arrived in Pittsburgh. And let's not even compare the Steelers offensive line to the Falcons offensive line -- either now or in the last five years -- because it's an insult to the Falcons offensive line.

Great, Roethlisberger has had a better defense, but he's never on the field with them. And it's painfully obvious that the 10 other players in the huddle with Matt Ryan have been markedly superior to the 10 players in the huddle with Roethlisberger in the last five seasons. A good defense can help a QB win more, but good weapons make a QB look better individually, and not only has Matt Ryan been given much better weapons, but Roethlisberger has had the worst weapons of any top-tier QB in the NFL in the last five years.

Slapstick
01-15-2013, 09:10 AM
Given the choice, I'd take Russell Wilson over you right now...

papillon
01-15-2013, 10:02 AM
Your evaluation of Ben is myopic. You are viewing his current skill based on the past, but he no longer offers the same quality of play. If anything, he cost us the play offs this year, throwing two game-losing pics in the games we needed to win coming down the stretch. The QBs I admire are the ones who are CURRENTLY offering superior play - not ones who sloppiness and undisciplined ways cost us the post season.

And, every year at this time there can only be 4 QBs playing, so some good quarterbacks aren't going to be in the playoffs that doesn't make them bad quarterbacks. Your view of the flavor of the day quarterback is naive and that of a fledgling fan of any sport. When something new arises it can look like a world beater because it hadn't been run with any permanence. Cam Newton was all the rage last year, this year, not so much, he'll have to change the way he plays to get back to the success he had his rookie campaign. The Wildcat was all the rage a few years back, DCs got the film out, studied and put a halt to that "flavor of the year", this year the athletic quarterback with passing skills enters the league and the college read option comes in vogue. The tape is out there now on the read option, if you believe that NFL DEs (43 defense) and OLBs (34 defense) are going to be fooled by the read option permanently you haven't been watching the NFL closely enough.

Ben had an outstanding year save for two lousy stinkin rotten plays and you act as if he's forgotten how to play football. I can't change your perception of Ben nor do I want to, you'll continue to espouse how Luck, RGII, Newton (probably), Wilson and Kaepernick are better than Ben and they may be some day, but none of them are right now.

Brees is home, Rogers played poorly, Manning (Peyton) made one stinkin rotten play in a game in which they were favored by close to double digits, Manning (Eli) couldn't get his team in the playoffs, Rivers is at home, Romo is at home after the Steelers gift wrapped their season for them he still managed to miss the playoffs, the list goes on and on.

Persoanlly, I can't wait to see how good defenses play against Wilson, Kaepernick, Luck and RGIII next year. They won't have the luxury of being the new kid on the block, there will be expectations, lets see if they can live up to them.

I'm certain Ben will have his 3800 - 4200 yards, 26 - 28 TDs, 6 - 8 INTs, because he's proven it over many years. I"m not certain that any of these guys will reach the heights they did this year. I hope they do, it will be good for the NFL, but I won't be surprised if they don't.

And, by the way, the only narrow minded thinking in this thread up to this point has been you, failing to even perceive any positive in Ben's play (current or past) while extolling the virtues of the "Wunderkinds" of this season. You're as myopic in an anti-Ben way as Crash is myopic in a Pro-Ben way; we'll see how it shakes out next year.

Pappy

feltdizz
01-15-2013, 10:15 AM
I wouldn't bet against Russell Wilson... he is the truth. He has everything Ben has except the big body and off field drama. LOL...

Not sure what it is about that kid but you know he is never out of a game.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
01-15-2013, 12:14 PM
So now Matt Ryan is better than Ben Roethlisberger, huh? Let us do compare their post-season performances...


Completion percentage

60.6% - Ben Roethlisberger
64.8% - Matt Ryan

Advantage: Matt Ryan


Passing yards per game

225.0 - Ben Roethlisberger
208.5 - Matt Ryan

Advantage: Ben Roethlisberger


Yards per pass attempt

7.7 - Ben Roethlisberger
5.8 - Matt Ryan

Advantage: Ben Roethlisberger


TD percentage

4.9% - Ben Roethlisberger
4.1% - Matt Ryan

Advantage: Ben Roethlisberger


INT percentage

4.2% - Ben Roethlisberger
4.1% - Matt Ryan

Advantage: Matt Ryan


TD/INT ratio

1.18 - Ben Roethlisberger
1.00 - Matt Ryan

Advantage: Ben Roethlisberger


Passer rating

83.7 - Ben Roethlisberger
76.6 - Matt Ryan

Advantage: Ben Roethlisberger


Matt Ryan has the advantage in completion percentage and INT percentage. Ben Roethlisberger has the advantage in passing yards per game, yards per pass attempt, TD percentage, TD/INT ratio and passer rating. It's also worth noting that Matt Ryan, since he entered the league in 2008, has always had better weapons on offense than Roethlisberger has.

Michael Turner has 1,411 carries for 6,081 yards, 4.3 YPC and 60 TDs with the Falcons. In the same period of time, Rashard Mendenhall has 547 fewer carries, 2,532 fewer yards, 0.2 fewer YPC and 31 fewer TDs. And the Falcons currently have more reliable WRs (two) than the Steelers have ever had with Roethlisberger (one), plus a Hall-of-Fame TE. Poor Heath Miller was underutilized until Todd Haley arrived in Pittsburgh. And let's not even compare the Steelers offensive line to the Falcons offensive line -- either now or in the last five years -- because it's an insult to the Falcons offensive line.

Great, Roethlisberger has had a better defense, but he's never on the field with them. And it's painfully obvious that the 10 other players in the huddle with Matt Ryan have been markedly superior to the 10 players in the huddle with Roethlisberger in the last five seasons. A good defense can help a QB win more, but good weapons make a QB look better individually, and not only has Matt Ryan been given much better weapons, but Roethlisberger has had the worst weapons of any top-tier QB in the NFL in the last five years.

The trouble with comparing these two QBs and their stats is that not every game is created equal. Consider that many of Ben's playoff games have been in locations such as Pittsburgh, New England, and Denver in January. 3 of Ryan's 4 games have been in ideal conditions. Ryan's games have been much more conducive to putting up numbers, yet his still fall short of Ben's.

BradshawsHairdresser
01-15-2013, 12:17 PM
The only thing I think Ben may have lost is some of his "clutchness." That doesn't mean he can't still be great. I don't know if Tom Brady is especially "clutch"--he very rarely is involved in a close game where it's on his shoulders to pull it out at the end. Maybe the Steelers need to figure out a way to pile up big leads, so that they don't always have to depend on Ben to be "clutch."

pfelix73
01-15-2013, 12:29 PM
I'll take the 6'5" Roethlisberger over the 5' 11" Wilson any day.

phillyesq
01-15-2013, 12:41 PM
And, every year at this time there can only be 4 QBs playing, so some good quarterbacks aren't going to be in the playoffs that doesn't make them bad quarterbacks. Your view of the flavor of the day quarterback is naive and that of a fledgling fan of any sport. When something new arises it can look like a world beater because it hadn't been run with any permanence. Cam Newton was all the rage last year, this year, not so much, he'll have to change the way he plays to get back to the success he had his rookie campaign. The Wildcat was all the rage a few years back, DCs got the film out, studied and put a halt to that "flavor of the year", this year the athletic quarterback with passing skills enters the league and the college read option comes in vogue. The tape is out there now on the read option, if you believe that NFL DEs (43 defense) and OLBs (34 defense) are going to be fooled by the read option permanently you haven't been watching the NFL closely enough.

Ben had an outstanding year save for two lousy stinkin rotten plays and you act as if he's forgotten how to play football. I can't change your perception of Ben nor do I want to, you'll continue to espouse how Luck, RGII, Newton (probably), Wilson and Kaepernick are better than Ben and they may be some day, but none of them are right now.

Brees is home, Rogers played poorly, Manning (Peyton) made one stinkin rotten play in a game in which they were favored by close to double digits, Manning (Eli) couldn't get his team in the playoffs, Rivers is at home, Romo is at home after the Steelers gift wrapped their season for them he still managed to miss the playoffs, the list goes on and on.

Persoanlly, I can't wait to see how good defenses play against Wilson, Kaepernick, Luck and RGIII next year. They won't have the luxury of being the new kid on the block, there will be expectations, lets see if they can live up to them.

I'm certain Ben will have his 3800 - 4200 yards, 26 - 28 TDs, 6 - 8 INTs, because he's proven it over many years. I"m not certain that any of these guys will reach the heights they did this year. I hope they do, it will be good for the NFL, but I won't be surprised if they don't.

And, by the way, the only narrow minded thinking in this thread up to this point has been you, failing to even perceive any positive in Ben's play (current or past) while extolling the virtues of the "Wunderkinds" of this season. You're as myopic in an anti-Ben way as Crash is myopic in a Pro-Ben way; we'll see how it shakes out next year.

Pappy

Great perspective.

As for your point about the QBs left at this time of year, just a few short years ago one of those QBs was Mark Sanchez. Not sure if Lloyroid woud have fawned over him, but wouldn't be surprised if he did.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
01-15-2013, 12:46 PM
I love these "flavor of the month" selections. Every year there are multiple young QBs who are going to eclipse Ben. Who could forget these classics?

Mike Vick upon his return with the Eagles
Matthew Stafford and his 5,000 yards
Philip Rivers - drafted the same year as Ben and sooooo much better while he dumps it off to Tomlinson then watched him run 60 yards through the D
Alex Smith just last season, not even a starter anymore
The up and coming Sam Bradford
Cam Newton and the Superman pose
Teeeeeeeebooooooow
Andy Dalton just last year
Tony Romo.....everyone's favorite
Matt Schaub

And I'm sure there are more that I can't think of.......

Now we have RGIII, Russell Wilson etc. While I do like watching these guys play, I just know that three years from now I will be reading a thread in which someone says something like.....Man, remember RGIII? How could would that dude have been if he could have stayed healthy?

And we will still be looking at QBs who are better than Ben based on the previous week.

feltdizz
01-15-2013, 12:59 PM
The only thing I think Ben may have lost is some of his "clutchness." That doesn't mean he can't still be great. I don't know if Tom Brady is especially "clutch"--he very rarely is involved in a close game where it's on his shoulders to pull it out at the end. Maybe the Steelers need to figure out a way to pile up big leads, so that they don't always have to depend on Ben to be "clutch."


This right here... why is it so hard to build a lead and keep it? One thing I will add though is Ben can't be let off the hook for some of these close games. He tends to get sloppy just like the rest of the team when we have a chance to put a team away. Whether it's missing a guy in the flat... taking a killer sack or throwing an INT. Just seems like this team finds creative ways every week to keep every game close... and it's EVERY facet of the team.

williar
01-15-2013, 01:07 PM
Did you see this guy battle back vs. Atl? Dear WORD, this kid is good. He is a better QB, right NOW, then is Bonehead Ben. He can buy time in the pocket, and out side of it, BETTER than BB, plus makes better decisions on where to go with the ball. I give Pete Carrol kudos for having the stones, and the wisdom, to go with this rookie instead of their high priced QB free agent vet. Seattle still lost, but this guy brought them back on a furious pace. Ben gets so much credit for keeping a play alive, but takes a pounding in doing so and makes some real bonehead decisions with careless decisions. This guy is already superior in buying time, creating plays and the accuracy on his throws. I know most of us like to consider BB an elite QB, but this new crop of QBs is quickly leaving BB in the rear view mirror as a possible top 5 QB. As a matter of fact, if given the choice, I would choose all of these QBs BEFORE BB if I had an NFL team.

Brady
Rogers
Matt Ryan
Peyton Manning - although age is a concern
Colin Rand Kaepernick
Russell Wilson
Luck
RG3 - although knee injury a concern
Brees

And I would add in Cam Newton if he bounces back from a sophomore slump, which I think he will.

That puts BB out of the top 10 in my mind - just out of it, but out of it nonetheless.

Sorry but Russell Wilson is the real deal. And so is Kaepernick, with his wicked athletic ability paired with a cannon of an arm. These guys are the new big time QBs in the NFL; BB no longer is the current big time QB. Those days are already gone. Oh, and Brady is as deadly as ever. Amazing how he and the Pats contend every year - just amazing.


I agree! I'd take any of these QBs and add Cam Newton too, before BB. If we had any of these Qbs leading us right now, I'd bet you we would be in the AFCCG and not Baltimore.....

lloydroid
01-15-2013, 02:18 PM
I wouldn't bet against Russell Wilson... he is the truth. He has everything Ben has except the big body and off field drama. LOL...

Not sure what it is about that kid but you know he is never out of a game.

And the "big body" applies in height only. RW is big, he's just not tall. He is built very solid and can move much better than Bonehead Ben, plus he seems to take this much more seriously. Ben plays like he is in a flag football intramural, frat game with a keg on the sidelines. He resembles David Spades take in "Tommy Boy." "Hey, i'm big Tom's son, he'll fix everything, so I'm allowed to be a moron," except in BB's case, his dad doesn't need to fix it from him being a moron, he just slathers through life, groping women, recklessly riding motorcycles, blow off pay his bills at bars, carelessly throwing passes, without bothering to focus, right into defenders chests, to end the season, not caring that he has just broken the hearts of millions of fans and an entire city. But it doesn't matter, because the regular rules don't apply to Bonehead Ben. He can grope women whenever he feels like it, have sex in public bathrooms, and it's all fine just because Bonehead Ben is allowed to do whatever he wants and he never has to be accountable.

lloydroid
01-15-2013, 02:25 PM
This right here... why is it so hard to build a lead and keep it? One thing I will add though is Ben can't be let off the hook for some of these close games. He tends to get sloppy just like the rest of the team when we have a chance to put a team away. Whether it's missing a guy in the flat... taking a killer sack or throwing an INT. Just seems like this team finds creative ways every week to keep every game close... and it's EVERY facet of the team.

But Ben is the catalyst and the root of the haphazard, sloppy ways. That is the epitome of BB: lazy, unfocused, undisciplined, shoot-at-the-hip. He thinks it's all good, because, "hey, that's just me I guess." Then after he losses the season for us, _THEN_ he gets all remorseful and apologizes to each player in the locker room, reportedly, which surely was a PR stunt, thinking he could just bamboozle the public like he always has. This is a man who skipped out on paying massive bar bills, just because he thinks he is too special to have to pay for his massive amount of beers and food. "Hey, I'm Big Ben, you are just lucky I am even here, so I don't have to pay for anything."

lloydroid
01-15-2013, 02:27 PM
I love these "flavor of the month" selections. Every year there are multiple young QBs who are going to eclipse Ben. Who could forget these classics?

Mike Vick upon his return with the Eagles
Matthew Stafford and his 5,000 yards
Philip Rivers - drafted the same year as Ben and sooooo much better while he dumps it off to Tomlinson then watched him run 60 yards through the D
Alex Smith just last season, not even a starter anymore
The up and coming Sam Bradford
Cam Newton and the Superman pose
Teeeeeeeebooooooow
Andy Dalton just last year
Tony Romo.....everyone's favorite
Matt Schaub

And I'm sure there are more that I can't think of.......

Now we have RGIII, Russell Wilson etc. While I do like watching these guys play, I just know that three years from now I will be reading a thread in which someone says something like.....Man, remember RGIII? How could would that dude have been if he could have stayed healthy?

And we will still be looking at QBs who are better than Ben based on the previous week.

Problem is, none of those guys were ever on my list. So, the assertion doesn't apply.

lloydroid
01-15-2013, 02:30 PM
Great perspective.

As for your point about the QBs left at this time of year, just a few short years ago one of those QBs was Mark Sanchez. Not sure if Lloyroid woud have fawned over him, but wouldn't be surprised if he did.

Do not deal in straw man arguments. I have known the Dirty Sanchez has stunk all along. Only address my actual assertions, not things that you have just made up. Dealing with straw man arguments is disingenuous.

Slapstick
01-15-2013, 02:33 PM
Do not deal in straw man arguments. I have known the Dirty Sanchez has stunk all along. Only address my actual assertions, not things that you have just made up. Dealing with straw man arguments is disingenuous.

It's not a straw man argument...you were referring to the "new crop of QBs"...how new? You need to clarify before accusing others of a straw man argument...

supersteeler
01-15-2013, 02:52 PM
I would like to know how all the QB''s mentioned would play without their starting RT, RG almost the entire year, then lose their LG and the center has to play LG and the backup to center.
The falloff from starters is big now a days, teams put so much cash into the starters, and the depth suffers and so does the play on the field until the backup gets enough playing time.

Btw, Kapernik the 49er QB has 3 PRO BOWL linemen on his line, I would think that makes a big difference in how he is able to play.

What I want to see is 5 healthy starters on our O-line and see how Ben Plays then, plus a healthy Ben would help too. Before I can pass judgement either way I need to see Ben have an equal playing field as the other QB's have ( linemen).

Captain Lemming
01-15-2013, 03:26 PM
You're as myopic in an anti-Ben way as Crash is myopic in a Pro-Ben way; we'll see how it shakes out next year.

Pappy

Aint THAT the truth.
People get so caught up in extremes.

Ben is an excellent QB, with some flaws.

He aint perfect nor is he a bum.

lloydroid
01-15-2013, 03:44 PM
Aint THAT the truth.
People get so caught up in extremes.

Ben is an excellent QB, with some flaws.

He aint perfect nor is he a bum.

I never said he was a bum. And he has been great in the past. But I am sick and tired of waiting for him to grow up, stop being a drama queen, stop being lazy, sloppy, unfocused and undisciplined and unaccountable. His sloppiness lost us the two most important games - where just one win would get us in the play offs, and in both cases he lost the games with moronic pics. Unacceptable. He let down millions but couldn't be bothered to pay a little attention.

lloydroid
01-15-2013, 03:47 PM
It's not a straw man argument...you were referring to the "new crop of QBs"...how new? You need to clarify before accusing others of a straw man argument...

Clarify? How about I list them all. Oh, that's right, that is what I did. And then you listed a bunch of QBs which I did not list, acting as if they were who I was referring to. That is a straw man argument. Please google it.

papillon
01-15-2013, 04:08 PM
Aint THAT the truth.
People get so caught up in extremes.

Ben is an excellent QB, with some flaws.

He aint perfect nor is he a bum.

He's closer to the top than being a bum and it isn't close. There's no need to list the bums we all know who they are and we know who the best are and Ben is way closer to the best of the best than he is the worst of the worst. Seeing it any other way simply shows a disdain for Ben for some reason, maybe he stood up someones sister, maybe he didn't buy you a drink or sign an autograph, but for some reason many people don't like him.

Pappy

Pappy

Slapstick
01-15-2013, 04:08 PM
Clarify? How about I list them all. Oh, that's right, that is what I did. And then you listed a bunch of QBs which I did not list, acting as if they were who I was referring to. That is a straw man argument. Please google it.

I don't need to google it...

You should dictionary.com the definition of "new" as in "new crop"...

DBR96A
01-15-2013, 04:21 PM
I love these "flavor of the month" selections. Every year there are multiple young QBs who are going to eclipse Ben. Who could forget these classics?

Mike Vick upon his return with the Eagles
Matthew Stafford and his 5,000 yards
Philip Rivers - drafted the same year as Ben and sooooo much better while he dumps it off to Tomlinson then watched him run 60 yards through the D
Alex Smith just last season, not even a starter anymore
The up and coming Sam Bradford
Cam Newton and the Superman pose
Teeeeeeeebooooooow
Andy Dalton just last year
Tony Romo.....everyone's favorite
Matt Schaub

And I'm sure there are more that I can't think of.......

Don't forget Matt Ryan now that he's popped his playoff cherry.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
01-15-2013, 04:34 PM
Don't forget Matt Ryan now that he's popped his playoff cherry.

Ya, I was going to mention Ryan at the end because he makes it twice. A couple of years ago before he had even made the playoffs he was already better than Ben. Now, after finally winning one playoff game he makes it again.

Shawn
01-15-2013, 05:04 PM
A rookie QB, with one season vs a HOF QB having an MVP year before injury...yup makes sense to me.

papillon
01-15-2013, 05:07 PM
A rookie QB, with one season vs a HOF QB having an MVP year before injury...yup makes sense to me.

Shawn, I would love that three round draft you have in your sig.; unfortunately, I believe Lacy has played himself into the first round somewhere.

Pappy

lloydroid
01-15-2013, 05:11 PM
I don't need to google it...

You should dictionary.com the definition of "new" as in "new crop"...

Then why did you make a list of QBs who I never said were better than Ben? And, the sun is not made out of cheese. I can't believe that you think it is.

Steelerphile
01-15-2013, 05:54 PM
I never really watched Russell Wilson too much before the playoffs but I really love that kid. If the Steelers could get any other QB than Ben, I would take him. People always mention the Steelers Oline in reference to Ben, but the argument I would always make is that QBs who anticipate the rush and maneuver as well as Wilson, will avoid sacks that will get to Ben, with the same OL line. The lesser mobile QBs like Manning and Brady will take fewer sacks with the same OL line, because they get rid of the ball quicker.

So, I can't be as volatile anti-Ben as lloydroid, but Ben does need to tighten the screws on himself. He doesn't have nearly the mobility as the RGIIIs, etc and this new crop, so he really needs to excel in his reads and accuracy, since his mobility is going to lessen in the near future. He has the tools to do all this.

People always used to argue about running QBs versus pocket passers, but that was when Kordell Stewart and Michael Vick, who were often in the 70s with the passer ratings were the top (running QBs), but with Wilson, RGIII, Kapernick and even Luck, who display great mobility and also passer ratings in the high 90s or over 100, coming into the landscape, Ben needs to work harder to keep up with players like them.

lloydroid
01-15-2013, 06:07 PM
I never really watched Russell Wilson too much before the playoffs but I really love that kid. If the Steelers could get any other QB than Ben, I would take him. People always mention the Steelers Oline in reference to Ben, but the argument I would always make is that QBs who anticipate the rush and maneuver as well as Wilson, will avoid sacks that will get to Ben, with the same OL line. The lesser mobile QBs like Manning and Brady will take fewer sacks with the same OL line, because they get rid of the ball quicker.

So, I can't be as volatile anti-Ben as lloydroid, but Ben does need to tighten the screws on himself. He doesn't have nearly the mobility as the RGIIIs, etc and this new crop, so he really needs to excel in his reads and accuracy, since his mobility is going to lessen in the near future. He has the tools to do all this.

People always used to argue about running QBs versus pocket passers, but that was when Kordell Stewart and Michael Vick, who were often in the 70s with the passer ratings were the top (running QBs), but with Wilson, RGIII, Kapernick and even Luck, who display great mobility and also passer ratings in the high 90s or over 100, coming into the landscape, Ben needs to work harder to keep up with players like them.

Problem is, Ben isn't convinced he needs to work. He has always had things come easy to him, without having to put much effort in, and I don't see him changing. He thinks he can "gun sling" his was to winning. And he has stated, more than once, that he isn't going to change his ways. He doesn't have to change completely, but he does need to revise his game some, but he will fight it every bit of the way, allowing it to even lead to losses. But we are talking about a guy who has sex in public bathrooms and skips out on paying bar bills. I don't know what we can realistically expect from him.

williar
01-15-2013, 07:07 PM
Ben is nothing more than a game manager. He's not elite, not a HOF and at this point I wouldn't even consider him very good.... Say what you want about Flacco, Ben would have NEVER won in a shoot-out against Peyton Manning. Hell, he couldn't even out score Tim Tebow. All this dude had to do was beat the stinking bengals. I mean, how many points did they score? Three, seven - and our elite QB couldn't rise to the occaision. Hate to break it to y'all! Our superbowl dreams went out the door when Hines Ward retired.... Ben will not win another super bowl!

Slapstick
01-15-2013, 08:49 PM
Then why did you make a list of QBs who I never said were better than Ben? And, the sun is not made out of cheese. I can't believe that you think it is.

Dude, go back and read. I never made any such list. Please, pay attention.

Shoe
01-16-2013, 12:57 AM
Ya, I was going to mention Ryan at the end because he makes it twice. A couple of years ago before he had even made the playoffs he was already better than Ben. Now, after finally winning one playoff game he makes it again.

I do remember Matt Ryan (in his rookie year), being touted as the best rookie QB in memory. I remember it, because only a couple years earlier, Ben led his team to a 15-win season and the AFCC game (losing to a team* who had secret tapes on him and his team).

To the notion (of Wilson vs. Ben), it's not out of the realm TBH. Wilson is/was very impressive... just as Ben was (as a rookie in '04); as Ryan was a few years later; how Cam was last year; not to mention Dalton. And the rookies this year. The question then would be: how have all those guys fared since.

It's really a mixed bag. And as someone mentioned, how do they fare in their 2nd years?

NJ-STEELER
01-16-2013, 01:53 AM
He's closer to the top than being a bum and it isn't close. There's no need to list the bums we all know who they are and we know who the best are and Ben is way closer to the best of the best than he is the worst of the worst. Seeing it any other way simply shows a disdain for Ben for some reason, maybe he stood up someones sister, maybe he didn't buy you a drink or sign an autograph, but for some reason many people don't like him.

Pappy

Pappy

dont think its "many people"


a few...yes


a few that like to create multiple logins on different message boards..... absolutely

DBR96A
01-16-2013, 04:16 AM
Ben is nothing more than a game manager. He's not elite, not a HOF and at this point I wouldn't even consider him very good.... Say what you want about Flacco, Ben would have NEVER won in a shoot-out against Peyton Manning. Hell, he couldn't even out score Tim Tebow. All this dude had to do was beat the stinking bengals. I mean, how many points did they score? Three, seven - and our elite QB couldn't rise to the occaision. Hate to break it to y'all! Our superbowl dreams went out the door when Hines Ward retired.... Ben will not win another super bowl!

Yep, and Terry Bradshaw sucked too.

feltdizz
01-16-2013, 10:14 AM
dont think its "many people"


a few...yes


a few that like to create multiple logins on different message boards..... absolutely

It's more than a few... I go back to Pittsburgh a lot to visit family and every time I go my Dad tells me about an argument he had with a Steeler fan who hates or isn't a fan of Ben.

I think it's probably 60-40 in Ben's favor and there are a good 20% who go back and forth depending on how he played the last game. Most of the people that hate Ben in Pittsburgh hate him for his off field antics. I know fans who like Ben don't like hearing it but it's part of his doing and most of it started with the motorcycle incident. He didn't break any laws but it's one of those things that made people think he was stubborn... then the bars, rumors, women, etc followed.

Add all that up with a city who loves Defense and you have a great recipe for hate... most appreciate him on the field and what he brought on the field but it will be like Terry IMO... They will like him from a distance but won't fall over themselves like Heath, A. Smith, Hines, Franco, etc...

The city was Ben's in 2004.... he knows he screwed it up.

williar
01-16-2013, 01:54 PM
I don't know why it would shock anybody to know that there are true steeler fans that simply don't like the way Ben plays quarterback. I certainly know more than, just a few. Ben ain't the "end all, be all" of quarterbacks. I watch the NFL and I see alot of QBs I think are better than Ben and could successfully lead this team. One of the things that scare me about Ben is when I watch games earlier in his career, particularly the pre-accident years and he was a much better QB. He was decisive, didn't pump-fake nine times before throwing the ball, didn't hold onto the ball for an eternity and take unneccesary sacks, at that time I truly thought this guy would be one of the GOAT!

Fast forward to now! I see a quarterback who has regressed! Ben is indecisive, a poor decision maker, inaccurate with his throws, and seems incapable of understanding the concepts of how to I run a clean, efficient, methodical offense and score touchdowns.... I am eternally grateful for the success he helped us to achieve early on, but let's not kidd ourselves, Ben walked into about as good of a situation as you could imagine for a young quarterback. Kind of similar to what Colin Kaepernick is experiencing. Like, dude! Don't worring about nothing! Just go out and do your thing and don't eff up the game...... Now, as we see, when most of those core veterans have moved on, Ben has proven he cannot carry the team the way truly elite QBs can........ It's called, acceptance! More than a "few" of us have accepted this fact. Some of you refuse to ever acknowledge this, no matter how many game crushing interceptions Ben throws.......

hawaiiansteel
03-28-2013, 03:21 PM
Seahawks Russell Wilson disagrees with Steelers Mike Tomlin

By SteelCityRoller on Mar 28 2013

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/10547861/2013016_gav_au3_239.0_standard_500.0.jpg

No one who enjoys any level of success likes to hear someone else claim it was a fluke. One of those people recently discredited by the Steelers head coach, has taken to the defense of his trendy talents.

Head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers Mike Tomlin pulls no punches when he answers questions he deems to be nonsensical.

Recently, Tomlin was asked about the run-option offense's place in the NFL. He replied swiftly and succinctly. He called it a "flavor of the month" passing fad. He declared his team's interest in bringing it to a quick and decisive end.

While Tomlin's assessment may hold true in the long run, the success of the offense in 2012 is undeniable. The San Francisco 49ers ran it all the way to the Super Bowl. The Washington Redskins found the future of their franchise in Robert Griffin III, and the Seattle Seahawks were suddenly spectacular behind rookie sensation Russell Wilson.

Wilson was asked by the Tacoma News-Tribune about Tomlin's comments. Evidently, Wilson disagrees with Tomlin.

"To be honest with you, people try to take away from the ability that guys have in terms of what Colin Kaepernick and other guys like him can do, for whatever reason, because they're young, or they're different; but I think it brings excitement to the game. It brings a challenge to the defense. It doesn't matter what style of offense, I'm ready to play any time, anywhere, anyplace. I just want to play football. Some people try to take away from our ability to throw the football because we can run, but I think it just adds another dimension to what we do."

To be fair to Wilson's argument, the Seahawks did not rely on the run-option all season; but when they did, they were awfully good at it. However, to be fair to Tomlin's point, Wilson hit the nail on the head.

"It brings a challenge to the defense."

Like many unorthodox or non-traditional systems, success is usually found in early stages due to no precedents on which to base defensive gameplans. Also, teams are currently built to defend the modern NFL offense as it was prior to the run-option explosion of 2012. As more and more teams begin to jump on the systematic bandwagon, more teams will begin building defenses out of athleticism to counteract the offensive advantage. Teams have already began compiling tape on the new looks, and will not find themselves as unprepared as they were last season.

Tomlin undoubtedly believes his team is up to Wilson's challenge. As he said in defense of his flavor comments, "Let's see how committed these guys are to getting their guys hit." As the loss of Redskins Griffin proves, the scheme exposes passers to even more contact.

The read-option offense may have a leg to stand on now, but its lifespan relies on the durability of those legs. An inability to run, creates inability for option. The longevity of the offensive scheme will be defined by the performances of quarterbacks who start running out of options due to swelling injury reports.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2013/3/28/4155672/seahawks-russell-wilson-comments-offense-mike-tomlin

feltdizz
03-28-2013, 03:47 PM
"Let's see how committed these guys are to getting their guys hit."

uhhh like Ben with our OL?