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View Full Version : Offense under Ben through his career.



Steelhere10
01-13-2013, 01:32 PM
Only average 22.6 points per game according to the Depot.
Is it the OL
OC OR
Ben himself, is a good question.

Crash
01-13-2013, 01:39 PM
It's mindset.

Get a lead. Run the ball.

We don't throw up 20 points like Brady and Peyton do.

SteelBucks
01-13-2013, 01:43 PM
It's mindset.

Get a lead. Run the ball.

We don't throw up 20 points like Brady and Peyton do.

I don't normally agree with you but I will here....

Mister Pittsburgh
01-13-2013, 02:03 PM
The mindset is also why crappy teams always have a shot vs the Steelers.

costanza2k1
01-13-2013, 02:38 PM
The lack of the killer instinct on offense has been an issue for a while. We are not playing with the times, the NFL rules are geared for passing and we tend to tuck our heads between our legs and allow the other team to score at will...not necessarily our D's fault, just the way the rules are and we aren't adapting.

Crash
01-13-2013, 03:09 PM
Case in point:

Dallas 50:

Run run pass

Cincy 32

Run run pass.

Steelers 46 in the same game

WR screen, run run run Ben scramble.

Eight first and second down plays in those three drives.

7 runs, 1 pass.

Why are we paying Ben $15 mil a year to be Trent Dilfer?

Then when he can't bail them out in the last two minutes it's Ben sucks.

ROLROC
01-13-2013, 03:20 PM
Case in point:

Dallas 50:

Run run pass

Cincy 32

Run run pass.

Steelers 46 in the same game

WR screen, run run run Ben scramble.

Eight first and second down plays in those three drives.

7 runs, 1 pass.

Why are we paying Ben $15 mil a year to be Trent Dilfer?

Then when he can't bail them out in the last two minutes it's Ben sucks.

Yuuuuup...
but is the culprit for the turtle playcalling Haley, Tomlin, or ArtII?

pittpete
01-13-2013, 03:20 PM
3 Super Bowls

squidkid
01-13-2013, 11:50 PM
i don think ben is all that talented.
he has benefitted hugely by having a top 5 defense and strong running game to support him since day 1.
i dont believe for a second that if you put ben in GB, NO, NE, DET, etc that he would put up numbers near those teams qbs.
i like ben but i never thought of him as being 'elite'.

DBR96A
01-14-2013, 02:34 AM
i don think ben is all that talented.
he has benefitted hugely by having a top 5 defense and strong running game to support him since day 1.
i dont believe for a second that if you put ben in GB, NO, NE, DET, etc that he would put up numbers near those teams qbs.
i like ben but i never thought of him as being 'elite'.
Yes, such a nice, strong running game that hasn't ranked in the top 10 in yards or YPC since 2007.

As for the defense, the Steelers invest so much in it that there's not enough left for the offense. Sure, having a good defense indirectly helps a QB, but you know what? The QB is never on the field with his defense. He's on the field with 10 other players on offense, and Roethlisberger has had the worst set of those 10 players of any top-tier QB in the last five years. Having a mediocre supporting cast on offense directly harms a QB.

The offensive line hasn't been good in years, and Willie Parker was the last good RB. Rashard Mendenhall is too much of a space cadet to be good. The WRs have been overrated. Hines Ward was the only consistent one. Antwaan Randle El, Santonio Holmes and Mike Wallace all made just as many dumb plays as big plays. Even Antonio Brown needs some sense knocked into him, apparently. And the TEs were never incorporated into the passing game until this season.

Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers have all had better offensive lines. Rodgers marginally so, but he compensates for it with his mobility. Manning and Rodgers have had better WRs. Brees and Rodgers have been in better systems. I like Todd Haley's system, though; there just aren't enough good pieces yet for it to work properly. Each of the other QBs has also been assisted by a running game that's effective when they choose to use it.

"You gotta get over this 'well he's got a great defense.' He can't throw to his defense. His defense doesn't block for him." -Colin Cowherd discussing Ben Roethlisberger (12/06/2010)

BURGH86STEEL
01-14-2013, 04:17 AM
Yes, such a nice, strong running game that hasn't ranked in the top 10 in yards or YPC since 2007.

As for the defense, the Steelers invest so much in it that there's not enough left for the offense. Sure, having a good defense indirectly helps a QB, but you know what? The QB is never on the field with his defense. He's on the field with 10 other players on offense, and Roethlisberger has had the worst set of those 10 players of any top-tier QB in the last five years. Having a mediocre supporting cast on offense directly harms a QB.

The offensive line hasn't been good in years, and Willie Parker was the last good RB. Rashard Mendenhall is too much of a space cadet to be good. The WRs have been overrated. Hines Ward was the only consistent one. Antwaan Randle El, Santonio Holmes and Mike Wallace all made just as many dumb plays as big plays. Even Antonio Brown needs some sense knocked into him, apparently. And the TEs were never incorporated into the passing game until this season.

Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers have all had better offensive lines. Rodgers marginally so, but he compensates for it with his mobility. Manning and Rodgers have had better WRs. Brees and Rodgers have been in better systems. I like Todd Haley's system, though; there just aren't enough good pieces yet for it to work properly. Each of the other QBs has also been assisted by a running game that's effective when they choose to use it.

"You gotta get over this 'well he's got a great defense.' He can't throw to his defense. His defense doesn't block for him." -Colin Cowherd discussing Ben Roethlisberger (12/06/2010)
To suggest that the team only invests in the defensive side of the ball, Ben hasn't had enough talent, that other teams have more talented players, ect ect ect is an attempt to give Ben a pass for his up and down play over the years. It's Ben's job to work with the players he has and make them better. The play of the QB position has a trickle down effect on the entire offense and team. The QB can make the offensive line look better by the way he plays the position. The QB can change the way the defense chooses to attack an offense. Ben's shown the ability to play at a high level with the players he's had. Ben hasn't played well enough to elevate the overall scoring production of the offense with the players he's had. Point production of the offense over the years rests mostly on the shoulders of Ben. Scoring production in the future will mostly be determined by the way Ben performs.

supersteeler
01-14-2013, 08:50 AM
Through the years the Steelers were never known as an offensive juggernaut, the only year we were really good offensively was 1979 where we averaged 26 points a game. At that time teams were more balanced and not the pass happy league it is today, so scoring an average of 26 back then was damn good.

Even when coach Cowher was here it was like get a lead, rely on our Defense to hold the lead, and run the ball to eat time off the clock instead of expanding on that lead.
If the Patriots score 30 they aren't satisfied, they want 40 they go for the juggler where the Steelers play that close to the vest stuff, and rely on the defense to hold leads.

How we play worked for the most part, we've been to 3 Super Bowls after the 70's era, but the way the game is being played now even the best defenses can't hold leads because the game favors the offense, so teams like the Steelers need to be more aggressive in the offensive department.

You need a good defense to win championships, but you have to have the offense to get there . Case in point the Patriots score at will during the regular season, usually outscoring their opponents by a wide margin. Then when the big game hits, the other opponent can score too but the difference is they also can make stops when needed by their defense to off-set the Patriots machine.


We can't rely on our defense like we did in the past to bail us out on close games, the Steelers need to take that next step to increase offensive production and score points. How we do it is the question?

In my opinion Ben has to play well but they can't put it all on him, he's not going to average 30 points a game, but if you give him an offensive line that can block, a run game where they produce then we'll see a better offense on the field.

Teams like the Patriots, Colts when Manning was there,Saints,Packers, all had very good o-lines. Give Ben a solid O-line and he will be great something he didn't have for years now. So the best thing the Steelers can do to enhance our offense is get better line play, it ALL starts up front!

Slapstick
01-14-2013, 09:17 AM
The Steelers offensive philosophy was working until Ben got hurt...

If the running game can improve, so that he isn't required to be so heroic on 3rd downs, and the red zone offense can improve (which I believe a more effective running game can only help!) life will be good...

My main concern is ball security on offense and not giving up big plays on defense and special teams...

Eich
01-14-2013, 09:27 AM
It's mindset.

Get a lead. Run the ball.

We don't throw up 20 points like Brady and Peyton do.

I agree and it's annoying. I'd rather keep my foot on the gas the whole game.

That said, the mindset does work ASSUMING you have a run game/O-line that's dominant. We haven't had one of those in years, so you'd think the mindset would adapt accordingly.