PDA

View Full Version : Mclendon @ DE ?



supersteeler
01-10-2013, 10:03 PM
I think its worth a try to see if could make the switch. He has a high motor like Keisel and could possibly do well there instead of NT. We have fangupo and Ta'Amu to compete for NT unless Moo can't get his legal matters squared away.
I've seen enough of Hood, he's been here four years and I haven't seen the production a #1 PICK should have, maybe a visit to the bench and it will register he has to do more to be a starter.

lloydroid
01-10-2013, 11:26 PM
I am in favor of giving Mc a try at DE. I feel he deserves to be on the field more, one way or another.

Shoe
01-11-2013, 03:01 PM
No offense intended but... I would find it very hard to believe that, if McLendon can play DE well enough to be a starter in this league, the coaching staff hasn't already thought about this very scenario. We (as fans) aren't going to come up with a light bulb moment of (the coaches all of a sudden saying), "Hey, why don't we play McLendon at End?"

Oviedo
01-11-2013, 03:26 PM
The problem isn't McLendon. The problem is that we have a Def Coord or overemphasizes stopping the run in a passing league. Stopping the run is a lot less importnat in the NFL than it was just 10 years ago. That is the source of my frustration with the DL. We have them controlling and "occupying Blockers" versus attacking the person with the ball. I would be last in the league in run defense but first in sacks and INTs in a heartbeat and I bet we would have a much better defense than we had this year from making a real impact in the game.

BigRob
01-11-2013, 03:35 PM
No offense intended but... I would find it very hard to believe that, if McLendon can play DE well enough to be a starter in this league, the coaching staff hasn't already thought about this very scenario. We (as fans) aren't going to come up with a light bulb moment of (the coaches all of a sudden saying), "Hey, why don't we play McLendon at End?"

The problem was NT. We had Hampton coming off of surgery and Ta'amu didn't pan out his rookie year. Mclendon had to be the back-up nose tackle.

We also had Keisel.

We now have Fangupo, Ta'amu, and Mclendon.

We know Hampton is gone. Wexell pointed out the fact the coaches think Mclendon can play DE in the 3-4 and move to NT on passing downs.

I could see us drafting Jesse Williams from Alabama with pick 17. I think they will then let Fangupo and Ta'amu fight it out in training camp to be the back-up nose tackle in that scenario.

Mister Pittsburgh
01-11-2013, 04:05 PM
With the lack of LB depth and depth on the DL we do have, if Tomlin ever planned to switch to the 4-3 Tampa 2 which he was known for....the time is now.

lloydroid
01-11-2013, 04:18 PM
No offense intended but... I would find it very hard to believe that, if McLendon can play DE well enough to be a starter in this league, the coaching staff hasn't already thought about this very scenario. We (as fans) aren't going to come up with a light bulb moment of (the coaches all of a sudden saying), "Hey, why don't we play McLendon at End?"

You think NFL coaches are automatically superior in all ideas of football? You are mistaken. They allow their egos to be involved, and many of them are not even that intelligent. I have met with some of these coaches. I had a coach tell me that running backs can be taught to have running instincts; this coming from a coach who was paid by the NFL and he actually believed that. How moronic. Oh, but he carried his Bible every where, so he must know all.

lloydroid
01-11-2013, 04:22 PM
I would be last in the league in run defense but first in sacks and INTs in a heartbeat and I bet we would have a much better defense than we had this year from making a real impact in the game.

I wouldn't go that far. If you are last in rushing D, you can't win. If teams can get first down after first down by rushing the ball, you will have one lousy team. The Saints, Bills and Jags were the 3 worst rushing Ds in the NFL, and all of them had a real hard time winning games, including the Saints, who have an uber high powered offense.

RuthlessBurgher
01-11-2013, 04:34 PM
No offense intended but... I would find it very hard to believe that, if McLendon can play DE well enough to be a starter in this league, the coaching staff hasn't already thought about this very scenario. We (as fans) aren't going to come up with a light bulb moment of (the coaches all of a sudden saying), "Hey, why don't we play McLendon at End?"

How many years did we see endless "Move Colon to guard" threads on here before the team actually went ahead and made the move?

lloydroid
01-11-2013, 04:38 PM
How many years did we see endless "Move Colon to guard" threads on here before the team actually went ahead and made the move?

Exactly. How many years did we scream that Kordell sucked as QB and we needed to move on? How long did they dilly dally with that position, finally HAVING to admit he was FAIL so many years later?

Oviedo
01-11-2013, 05:21 PM
With the lack of LB depth and depth on the DL we do have, if Tomlin ever planned to switch to the 4-3 Tampa 2 which he was known for....the time is now.

Preaching to the choir brother:Bow Imagine the cap space we could potentially clear. Imo this is where Art II has potentially become too meddlesome in trying to define what this team is and does. I really doubt Tomlin has ever had the freedom to switch to the defense he really wants because of Lebeau's presence. That is why LeBeau should go so Tomlin can either make a change to the 4-3 or stay with the 3-4 because it is what he wants as head coach.

Crash
01-11-2013, 05:25 PM
McClendon supposedly gets trucked a lot in run defense.

OK, so when it's 3rd and 10? Get Hampton off the field and let him be a pass rusher.

Same for Worilds. Put him at rush end and get titty dancing Ziggy off the field.

Mister Pittsburgh
01-11-2013, 05:40 PM
McClendon supposedly gets trucked a lot in run defense.

OK, so when it's 3rd and 10? Get Hampton off the field and let him be a pass rusher.

Same for Worilds. Put him at rush end and get titty dancing Ziggy off the field.

its not so much McClendon gets trucked, but more that he isn't gap sound while busting by centers and guards.

phillyesq
01-11-2013, 06:05 PM
With the lack of LB depth and depth on the DL we do have, if Tomlin ever planned to switch to the 4-3 Tampa 2 which he was known for....the time is now.

Depth on the DL? I'm sorry, but I don't see it.

McClendon generates some pass rush, but he has problems holding up against the run. Ziggy Hood gets no push and the verdict is still out on Heyward. Fangupo was waived by two other teams and Ta'amu was waived and went unclaimed. Why build a defense that features these guys?

Plus, even if you plug Woodley and Worilds in at one DE spot (and given their injuries, that is all you can count on), you need more defensive ends, better DTs and a more linebackers.

Mister Pittsburgh
01-11-2013, 06:15 PM
Depth on the DL? I'm sorry, but I don't see it.

McClendon generates some pass rush, but he has problems holding up against the run. Ziggy Hood gets no push and the verdict is still out on Heyward. Fangupo was waived by two other teams and Ta'amu was waived and went unclaimed. Why build a defense that features these guys?

Plus, even if you plug Woodley and Worilds in at one DE spot (and given their injuries, that is all you can count on), you need more defensive ends, better DTs and a more linebackers.

Do you think, just possibly, our two first round DL would play a little differently in the 4-3? Ta'amu went unclaimed due to legal issues. Keisel can play DE for a season or two and may kick butt considering he is one of the best athletes over 250lbs on the team.

Crash
01-11-2013, 06:16 PM
What bothers me, is we draft these DL, then we coach them to be something else. Thus, negating the skills that had us draft them in the first place.

lloydroid
01-11-2013, 06:38 PM
Depth on the DL? I'm sorry, but I don't see it.

McClendon generates some pass rush, but he has problems holding up against the run. Ziggy Hood gets no push and the verdict is still out on Heyward. Fangupo was waived by two other teams and Ta'amu was waived and went unclaimed. Why build a defense that features these guys?

Plus, even if you plug Woodley and Worilds in at one DE spot (and given their injuries, that is all you can count on), you need more defensive ends, better DTs and a more linebackers.

And that's what the draft and free agency is for.

Shawn
01-11-2013, 07:18 PM
No offense intended but... I would find it very hard to believe that, if McLendon can play DE well enough to be a starter in this league, the coaching staff hasn't already thought about this very scenario. We (as fans) aren't going to come up with a light bulb moment of (the coaches all of a sudden saying), "Hey, why don't we play McLendon at End?"

isnt that what people said about Colon at Guard?

Shoe
01-11-2013, 07:36 PM
You think NFL coaches are automatically superior in all ideas of football? You are mistaken. They allow their egos to be involved, and many of them are not even that intelligent. I have met with some of these coaches. I had a coach tell me that running backs can be taught to have running instincts; this coming from a coach who was paid by the NFL and he actually believed that. How moronic. Oh, but he carried his Bible every where, so he must know all.

You're citing their ego?
I certainly can see where ego can play a part in decisions... But you're telling me that despite the fact that these NFL coaches... experts if you will... who go to every one of the team's practices, and are privy to meeting & collaborating with fellow professionals (coaches) on the status of the team... can't figure out something that a ham-&-egger on steelers planet dot com's forums who watches games on Sunday Ticket can?

Those making the Colon comparison are forgetting one thing: In his "prime", he was considered talented enough to play Tackle... that's the reason he wasn't playing Guard--he was a starting Tackle (probably considered more important, in the grand scheme). It wasn't as if he was sitting idly by while the team trotted our substandard Guards. Colon didn't play (Guard) because he was already playing Tackle.

SteelCrazy
01-11-2013, 09:35 PM
The problem isn't McLendon. The problem is that we have a Def Coord or overemphasizes stopping the run in a passing league. Stopping the run is a lot less importnat in the NFL than it was just 10 years ago. That is the source of my frustration with the DL. We have them controlling and "occupying Blockers" versus attacking the person with the ball. I would be last in the league in run defense but first in sacks and INTs in a heartbeat and I bet we would have a much better defense than we had this year from making a real impact in the game.

We had the #1 passing defense in the league and #2 rushing defense...LeBeau is the answer, always has been.

Crash
01-11-2013, 10:46 PM
And the offense holding the ball helps their ranking.

birtikidis
01-11-2013, 11:24 PM
And the offense holding the ball helps their ranking.
And the offense turning the ball over and over again hurts it.

thor75
01-11-2013, 11:27 PM
And the offense holding the ball helps their ranking.

I would think you would be glad the offense has a high T.O.P. Keeps the defense fresh and since we can't seem to score more than 30 consistently, it helps keep the ball away from the other team. Now, do we need to be more effective with the offense....no question.

Oviedo
01-12-2013, 09:59 AM
We had the #1 passing defense in the league and #2 rushing defense...LeBeau is the answer, always has been.

...and lost half the games we played and missed the play offs. So how important were those rankings? They are meaningless! They are calculated based on yards allowed alone. You fail to cite that we were in the bottom half of the league in sacks and interceptions. Things that really matter in a game.

LeBeau is no longer the answer because he doesn't have any answers to the decreasing trend in fewer sacks and interceptions that is on a three year downturn.

phillyesq
01-12-2013, 12:12 PM
And that's what the draft and free agency is for.

Free agency? Have you looked at the cap situation?

The team has needs all over the place. Changing to a 4-3 would create more needs, not less.

phillyesq
01-12-2013, 12:15 PM
Do you think, just possibly, our two first round DL would play a little differently in the 4-3? Ta'amu went unclaimed due to legal issues. Keisel can play DE for a season or two and may kick butt considering he is one of the best athletes over 250lbs on the team.

In the nickel package, Ziggy Hood pretty much plays as a 4-3 DT. And he stinks as a pass rusher. Having Woodley put his hand down instead of standing up next to him isn't going to help Ziggy. The jury is still out on Heyward.

Keisel would have been better suited as a 4-3 DE earlier in his career. I'm not sure that he has the pass rush ability that you need from a DE in the 4-3.

phillyesq
01-12-2013, 12:18 PM
...and lost half the games we played and missed the play offs. So how important were those rankings? They are meaningless! They are calculated based on yards allowed alone. You fail to cite that we were in the bottom half of the league in sacks and interceptions. Things that really matter in a game.

LeBeau is no longer the answer because he doesn't have any answers to the decreasing trend in fewer sacks and interceptions that is on a three year downturn.

The defense was also #6 in scoring, which does matter.

When you lose two home games in which the opponent does not score an offensive touchdown, there is a serious problem with your offense.

The defense needs more pressure and more turnovers, but ultimately the players bear a lot of the burden. Whether a 3-4 or a 4-3, Ziggy and Woodley will be rushing from the left side of the defense. They stunk last year, and that is on them.

supersteeler
01-12-2013, 12:36 PM
...and lost half the games we played and missed the play offs. So how important were those rankings? They are meaningless! They are calculated based on yards allowed alone. You fail to cite that we were in the bottom half of the league in sacks and interceptions. Things that really matter in a game.

LeBeau is no longer the answer because he doesn't have any answers to the decreasing trend in fewer sacks and interceptions that is on a three year downturn.

LeBeau isn't the problem and history proves it. The main issue we had on defense is we couldn't get pressure on the QB enough, we had our best LB Harrison out for a quarter of the season and another quarter just to get back in game shape. We had our other best Pass rusher Woodley slowed by lingering injuries, when you have your best pass rushers sidelined its tough to get pressure on the QB.
When you force a QB to throw before he wants to then the INT's will come, thats what we were missing, plus outside of Keisel the DE's were invisible.
Troy was out for eleven games, and it took another 2 or three games to get back in playing shape, having three of your best defensive players out during the course of a season will impact the D and what they can do.

If you ask me considering the injuries and what took place this year LeBeau was terrific, now just imagine if LeBeau had an offense that wasn't turning the ball over making his defense defend the field more than they should have.

Lets not sugar coat the problems, this offense was lousey most of the year struggling to score points and only scored 30 or above one time. They had a four game stretch where they were doing good but failed more than not.
I'll take LeBeau over any defensive coach out there, if it wasn't for him the Steelers may have gotten a number 5 pick in the draft with a 5-11 record.

phillyesq
01-12-2013, 12:38 PM
LeBeau isn't the problem and history proves it. The main issue we had on defense is we couldn't get pressure on the QB enough, we had our best LB Harrison out for a quarter of the season and another quarter just to get back in game shape. We had our other best Pass rusher Woodley slowed by lingering injuries, when you have your best pass rushers sidelined its tough to get pressure on the QB.
When you force a QB to throw before he wants to then the INT's will come, thats what we were missing, plus outside of Keisel the DE's were invisible.
Troy was out for eleven games, and it took another 2 or three games to get back in playing shape, having three of your best defensive players out during the course of a season will impact the D and what they can do.

If you ask me considering the injuries and what took place this year LeBeau was terrific, now just imagine if LeBeau had an offense that wasn't turning the ball over making his defense defend the field more than they should have.

Lets not sugar coat the problems, this offense was lousey most of the year struggling to score points and only scored 30 or above one time. They had a four game stretch where they were doing good but failed more than not.
I'll take LeBeau over any defensive coach out there, if it wasn't for him the Steelers may have gotten a number 5 pick in the draft with a 5-11 record.

Well said.

In the time that Ovi has said that Lebeau was the problem, the Steelers have been to 3 Super Bowls and won 2.

Crash
01-12-2013, 01:10 PM
And the offense turning the ball over and over again hurts it.

How many turnovers in the three games without Ben?

No, what hurt the defense when they stated 2-3 was giving up scores after we would score ourselves.

Can't hold the ball for 15 minutes.

Crash
01-12-2013, 01:14 PM
I would think you would be glad the offense has a high T.O.P. Keeps the defense fresh and since we can't seem to score more than 30 consistently, it helps keep the ball away from the other team. Now, do we need to be more effective with the offense....no question.

I think TOP is a key for this team.

But I'm not going to brag where the defense is "ranked" because of it.

We won't score 30 a game without turnovers when the priority on offense is to rest our defense.

thor75
01-12-2013, 02:05 PM
I think TOP is a key for this team.

But I'm not going to brag where the defense is "ranked" because of it.

We won't score 30 a game without turnovers when the priority on offense is to rest our defense.

I just don't believe that is the offense's priority. If you think the defensive ranking is too high and used as a crutch that is a stats problem. If the bulk of an opponents yardage gained is on 3rd down or in the red zone, then I agree. The defense would be statistically high but not effective. But I saw plenty of 3 and outs by our defense this year and I can't blame the offense's ineffectiveness on the defense.

thor75
01-12-2013, 02:11 PM
The second Cinci game was maddening. How many 3 and outs did our offense have after a turnover or mistake by the Bengals? I think the defense's ranking was on their own merit, not some hidden agenda by Haley.

feltdizz
01-12-2013, 02:24 PM
Teams aren't committed to running the football. More McClendon, less Hampton.

feltdizz
01-12-2013, 02:26 PM
Also have to add... Our offense stinks and it wouldn't matter if our D was top 5 in creating TO's... The O would give it back or go 3 and out.

fezziwig
01-12-2013, 03:47 PM
After reading all the comments one thing is for sure, this team and both sides of the ball needs revamped and some FA added to fill some of the gaps. I don't know why there would be any reason to imagine that, the same OLD players are not going to have their injuries or more injuries come next season or during next season. Harrison when in his prime made the entire defense better and with that, hid a lot of flaws in others. Don't count on Troy other than seeing a spark from him once in a while but more likely, Troy will miss most of next season too. When Troy does return he will be a ghost of a player. Ziggy is a waste of a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th and I see nothing in him that would have made me select him as a pactice sqad guy.
Heyward must be worse if the coaches haven't played him or are they waiting for Kiesel to retire ?
Without any linebackers creating the pressure they're supposed to, why worry about Hampton vs McClendon or whatever ? Might as well cut Casey if it save the team money, his abilities if he still has them or what it takes doesn't matter without the counter part of having linebackers that can rush.

This team might not be a contender for many years to come with the players we currently have. Get used to looking up at Cincy and Cleveland as the power houses in our division. Those teams are on the rise and we are headed downward and Cleveland will win a championship or North title before us in my humble and negative opinion.
This was all bound to happen because you can not stay on top forever unless your the Patricheats. Despite that I hate them and their coach, he can get those guys to play ball and he is seldom out coached like our guys are.

Crash
01-12-2013, 04:30 PM
Also have to add... Our offense stinks and it wouldn't matter if our D was top 5 in creating TO's... The O would give it back or go 3 and out.

That's not accurate. Prior to Ben's injury he was the best 3rd down passer in football.

Try again.

Three words people. Remember them for 2013:

Give

Back

Points

It's why we were 2-3. It's why we were one missed Suisham FG from 1-4.