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hawaiiansteel
01-10-2013, 06:49 PM
Ed: Steelers OL to Have Different Look in '13

WEDNESDAY, 09 JANUARY 2013 WRITTEN BY ED BOUCHETTE

Good morning,

Three regular starters in the Steelers offensive line likely wonít return in 2013 and all three players who took turns starting at right tackle should start at three separate positions next season.

There is a caveat to all of this, of course Ė provided they all stay healthy.

Look for Max Starks and Ramon Foster to leave in free agency and Willie Colon to be released. Colonís knee injury that placed him on injured reserve for the third straight season was the last straw. The Steelers want to move on and they believe they have the right man to replace him.

The Steelers drafted Kelvin Beachum Ė their fourth and final pick in the seventh round last year Ė to play guard even though he started all 52 games in his four years at SMU. When Marcus Gilbert and Mike Adams were shelved by injuries after starting at right tackle, the Steelers turned to Beachum. He started there the final five games and did a nice job. It helped convince them he can start at guard Ė coincidentally, moving from and to the same position that Colon did.

They will turn the right tackle job over to Adams. Gilbert will start at left tackle. There was a time many assumed Adams would play left tackle, but he is a more natural right tackle, a better run blocker, and Gilbertís more natural position is left tackle.

David DeCastro will take over at right guard as he did at the end of the season when he became healthy from his preseason knee injury. And, of course, there is three-time Pro Bowl center Maurkice Pouncey.

Their backups are to be determined because at the moment only John Malecki is under contract from their season-ending roster.

That, ladies and gents, is your 2013 Pittsburgh Steelers offensive line. Check back for medical updates.

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/119444-ed-steelers-ol-to-have-different-look-in-13

Chadman
01-10-2013, 06:54 PM
Well..... at least the OL will be cost effective, right?

Eddie Spaghetti
01-10-2013, 06:57 PM
god help ben with gilbert on his blindside.

phillyesq
01-10-2013, 06:58 PM
Wow is that a terrible group. There is no depth there at all and counting on Beachum to start is an amazingly poor decision. Neither OT has demonstrated an ability to stay healthy, DeCastro is coming off a major knee injury, etc.

If the Steelers jettison Colon and/or don't resign Foster, that isn't the worst thing in the world, but counting on Beachum, aka Trai Essex 2.0, to start?

steelfin
01-10-2013, 06:59 PM
WOW....Lets hope Ed is wrong on this one...

I liked how Beachum represented himself and hope he continues to develop...But Gilbert at LT...really?

Ben will not make it to the half way mark of the season and we will lose another OL to the Gilbert effect...

I have never seen another OL get ragdolled as much as Gilbert...

Eddie Spaghetti
01-10-2013, 06:59 PM
maybe this gives rise to ovis desire to draft another OG in the 1st.

supersteeler
01-10-2013, 07:08 PM
Gilbert played LT in college so we hope it works out, and as you said Chadman cost effective. On paper that line may do well, of course as always injuries play a part too.
I think everyone would be ok with that lineup if Beachum can hold his own, the LT position could be of concern if Gilbert doesn't work out, but thats his natural poistion so who knows.
It sounds logical what ED stated, Max is a fan favorite and there is some comfort there with him at LT however the Steelers have to make some tough choices this may be one of them.

Crash
01-10-2013, 07:09 PM
Spread 'em out.

3 wide.

Less congestion. Make it easier for them.

RuthlessBurgher
01-10-2013, 07:13 PM
And to make things worse, potential franchise LT types Taylor Lewan and Jake Matthews announcing that they are returning to Michigan and Texas A&M, respectively. Right now, the only other potential first round tackle (other than Joeckel who should go in the top 5) would be Central Michigan's Eric Fisher (we'll have to see how he performs against a higher level of talent at the Senior Bowl in a couple of weeks).

I wasn't on the Chance Warmack bandwagon (because I couldn't see us using 1st round picks on interior lineman in 3 out of 4 drafts), but if he is on the board, and we let Starks, Colon, and Foster all walk, then that pick would make sense as the BPA at a position of need.

Mister Pittsburgh
01-10-2013, 07:13 PM
To let Starks go with no attempt to keep him is moronic. This article, in a nutshell, is why our offense sucks.

Oviedo
01-10-2013, 07:17 PM
maybe this gives rise to ovis desire to draft another OG in the 1st.

If that is your starting 5 then you have zero depth and you have players who in their short history have proven to be injury prone. You had better be drafting OL in this draft early and often.

Beachum is more a swing guy who can play both OG positions and a little RT but not a starter. Hell that plan for '13 may convince even me we should keep Foster.

Oviedo
01-10-2013, 07:19 PM
To let Starks go with no attempt to keep him is moronic. This article, in a nutshell, is why our offense sucks.

Totally agree. To let the only player on the OL to play every snap walk away is totally stupid and is why our offense can't take a step to the next level. Until we fix the OL we will never have a offense performing to their capabilities.

I'm sure we will then spend three of the first five picks in the draft on the defense.

Expect 8-8 again next year if this happens.

hawaiiansteel
01-10-2013, 07:22 PM
I wasn't on the Chance Warmack bandwagon (because I couldn't see us using 1st round picks on interior lineman in 3 out of 4 drafts)

close, 2 out of 4 with Pouncey and DeCastro. Gilbert and Adams were both 2nd rounders.

but you're right, we have invested very heavily on the OL in recent years and it's really hard to imagine yet another OL being drafted in the first round when we have so many other needs also.

RuthlessBurgher
01-10-2013, 07:22 PM
I'm sure we will then spend three of the first five picks in the draft on the defense.

When the defense is old and the offense is young, that's what happens.

Oviedo
01-10-2013, 07:22 PM
Gilbert played LT in college so we hope it works out, and as you said Chadman cost effective. On paper that line may do well, of course as always injuries play a part too.
I think everyone would be ok with that lineup if Beachum can hold his own, the LT position could be of concern if Gilbert doesn't work out, but thats his natural poistion so who knows.
It sounds logical what ED stated, Max is a fan favorite and there is some comfort there with him at LT however the Steelers have to make some tough choices this may be one of them.

If the Steelers want to make some tough choices carve some salary out of the defense where several players are not earning enormous contracts. Once again, try to play offense with bargain basement investments and pile the riches on a defense that can't sack the QB or Intercept a pass. I think Colbert has become retarded if this happens.

RuthlessBurgher
01-10-2013, 07:23 PM
close, 2 out of 4 with Pouncey and DeCastro. Gilbert and Adams were both 2nd rounders.

but you're right we have invested heavily on the OL in recent years and it's hard to imagine yet another OL being drafted in the first round when we have so many other needs also.

I was counting Warmack as the 3rd interior OL in the first round in 4 years' time (2010, 2012, 2013) in that scenario.

Eddie Spaghetti
01-10-2013, 07:25 PM
q
If that is your starting 5 then you have zero depth and you have players who in their short history have proven to be injury prone. You had better be drafting OL in this draft early and often.

Beachum is more a swing guy who can play both OG positions and a little RT but not a starter. Hell that plan for '13 may convince even me we should keep Foster.

never thought I would see the day!

I agree though, that if this is the plan, warmack makes a lot of sense.

supersteeler
01-10-2013, 07:26 PM
Yeah,
It really bothers the Steelers fans that they would let Max leave when he was the most consistent and injury free O-lineman. Personally I would keep max especially when their offense has problems scoring points. If they let Max go and Gilbert doesn't cut it the outcry will be heard around the world.
They might want to rethink this senario before they make a harsh decision, Ben's health is at stake when you have a sub-par LT if thats what Gilbert will be.

hawaiiansteel
01-10-2013, 07:28 PM
I was counting Warmack as the 3rd interior OL in the first round in 4 years' time (2010, 2012, 2013) in that scenario.

oh yeah, i just re-read your post.

would you select Warmack in this draft if he were still available?

SteelBucks
01-10-2013, 07:36 PM
I could live with this OL. Depth would be the only issue if one goes down.

BigRob
01-10-2013, 07:36 PM
And to make things worse, potential franchise LT types Taylor Lewan and Jake Matthews announcing that they are returning to Michigan and Texas A&M, respectively. Right now, the only other potential first round tackle (other than Joeckel who should go in the top 5) would be Central Michigan's Eric Fisher (we'll have to see how he performs against a higher level of talent at the Senior Bowl in a couple of weeks).

I wasn't on the Chance Warmack bandwagon (because I couldn't see us using 1st round picks on interior lineman in 3 out of 4 drafts), but if he is on the board, and we let Starks, Colon, and Foster all walk, then that pick would make sense as the BPA at a position of need.

Disagree. You have Eric Fisher, Lane Johnson, Justin Pugh, Brian Winters, Oday Aboushi, and Dallas Thomas was a pretty damn good Left Tackle at Tennessee before moving to left guard for a star Left Tackle recruit.


I have a feeling teams are not going to let Warmack slip to our pick as happened with Decastro. The Jets, San Diego, Carolina and Saint Louis all have a great need for one of the top players in the draft.

The Cowboys are right behind us and would probably trade up to jump us for Warmack.

Mister Pittsburgh
01-10-2013, 07:41 PM
When the defense is old and the offense is young, that's what happens.

Young doesn't mean good. But they will play them anyway, while on defense we also had young players that aren't very good but have signed the old vets to keep them.

It's ok to start a young unproven LT and let a quality proven and affordable vet walk on offense, but on defense rather than starting the young unproven players we sign the Ike Taylor's to huge contracts.

The above is why our offense will flounder around the 20th ranking and our QB's final years will be pissed away.

Look at the playoff teams....let the D players walk and start young guys in their place and build around their franchise QB.

NorthCoast
01-10-2013, 07:45 PM
I don't have more than a gnat's hair confidence in anything Bouchette has to say.

supersteeler
01-10-2013, 07:52 PM
Mike Tomlin on Kevin Beachum>"He was going to be prepared above the neck... very cerebral... he's steady eddy"

BigRob
01-10-2013, 08:09 PM
I don't have more than a gnat's hair confidence in anything Bouchette has to say.

You would never go into camp with virtually no back-ups. They will re-sign Legursky.

I think they have made the decision to move on from Colon and will try to re-sign Foster as starting LG.

I will have to look it up again, but it was being mentioned by Dulac in a chat that they are going to ask Foster to lose about 20 pounds. They want to get more athletic on the line.

Apparently Haley is going to get more input in the o-line coach and likes the more athletic o-linemen that he had in KC.

Beachum is very athletic, but he needs to get stronger. If he can get stronger, he could be a good player.

Dulac and Bouchette are often wrong.

DukieBoy
01-10-2013, 08:10 PM
god help ben with gilbert on his blindside.

Hope he doesn't fall on Ben.

RuthlessBurgher
01-10-2013, 08:17 PM
oh yeah, i just re-read your post.

would you select Warmack in this draft if he were still available?

If we unload Starks, Colon, and Foster this offseason? Gilbert-Beachum-Pouncey-DeCastro-Adams with only Malecki as depth? We'd almost have to. Warmack-Pouncey-DeCastro would be the best interior OL in football, and then Beachum could battle it out with Adams and Gilbert for the 2 tackle slots. Even then, our tackles scare the bejesus out of me.

pfelix73
01-10-2013, 08:20 PM
I don't have any problems with Gilbert at LT. He was gonna play there sooner or later. They originally drafted him to play that very position. How quickly we forget that he played a lot for the 2011 Steelers and did just fine when he was in there. I'd still like to see Legs at C (plus draft a C in a later round like 3 or 4) and move Pouncey to LG. I thought he did a great job in there LG this year.

hawaiiansteel
01-10-2013, 08:23 PM
Ed: Legursky Important for Steelers to Sign

TUESDAY, 08 JANUARY 2013 08:51 WRITTEN BY ED BOUCHETTE

Good morning,

--- Mike Tomlin continues to have his exit interviews with players. Heís dragging this thing out, probably because heís not used to having so much time on his hands.

--- Of all the Steelers free agents, Doug Legursky may not seem to be the most coveted, but he will be by his own team. Legursky is the only legitimate backup to Maurkice Pouncey, and he also can fill in at guard. Thatís a two-for theyíre not likely to find elsewhere. With Ramon Foster also an unrestricted free agent, signing Legursky is important for them.

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/119433-ed-legursky-important-for-steelers-to-sign

BigRob
01-10-2013, 08:24 PM
I should add that we have all gotten too used to mediocrity. Max Starks is steady, but he is just plain average in run and pass blocking.

I think they have to try something different.

RuthlessBurgher
01-10-2013, 08:25 PM
Didn't someone on the board post something a little while back about Gilbert's injury possibly being worse than most of us thought (like potentially career-threatening type of serious)? If that's the case, then we might go for a tackle (like say Fisher in round 1 or Aboushi in round 2) to pair with Adams as our bookends for the future (if Gilbert is may not be in the future plans as a result of this injury). That and re-signing Foster might be the way to go.

Steelhere10
01-10-2013, 08:27 PM
I hope they move on from Legs he straight suck..

Mister Pittsburgh
01-10-2013, 09:27 PM
I don't have any problems with Gilbert at LT. He was gonna play there sooner or later. They originally drafted him to play that very position. How quickly we forget that he played a lot for the 2011 Steelers and did just fine when he was in there. I'd still like to see Legs at C (plus draft a C in a later round like 3 or 4) and move Pouncey to LG. I thought he did a great job in there LG this year.

By this logic we have Worilds to replace Harrison and Brown and Allen to replace Ike, Heyward to replace Keisel....should cut them to get under the cap.

Slapstick
01-10-2013, 11:26 PM
Well for those of you who want younger, hungrier guys getting playing time, here you go!

Actually, I think this is the best (and most cost-effective) lineup...we just need the right OL coach...

Slapstick
01-10-2013, 11:27 PM
By this logic we have Worilds to replace Harrison and Brown and Allen to replace Ike, Heyward to replace Keisel....should cut them to get under the cap.

You think that isn't a possibility?

lloydroid
01-10-2013, 11:35 PM
Wow is that a terrible group. There is no depth there at all and counting on Beachum to start is an amazingly poor decision. Neither OT has demonstrated an ability to stay healthy, DeCastro is coming off a major knee injury, etc.

If the Steelers jettison Colon and/or don't resign Foster, that isn't the worst thing in the world, but counting on Beachum, aka Trai Essex 2.0, to start?

I think it's a risk to not bring back Starks, but also not bringing back Foster, for depth at least, seems loco.

focosteeler
01-10-2013, 11:42 PM
I think it's a risk to not bring back Starks, but also not bringing back Foster, for depth at least, seems loco.

It will be a tough choice, I would bring back Starks as long as he didnt ask for an unreasonable amount of money

Mister Pittsburgh
01-10-2013, 11:57 PM
You think that isn't a possibility?
Not really. Steelers go cheap on offense then blame the offense for losses. Gotta have that top D to play renegade for though.

hawaiiansteel
01-11-2013, 12:08 AM
I think it's a risk to not bring back Starks, but also not bringing back Foster, for depth at least, seems loco.

bringing back neither of your usual starting OGs from the previous season usually indicates a problem of some kind...

Mister Pittsburgh
01-11-2013, 12:21 AM
If Ed is right, they better draft an OL in the first round.

Crash
01-11-2013, 12:22 AM
Not really. Steelers go cheap on offense then blame the offense for losses. Gotta have that top D to play renegade for though.

:Beer

Someone else gets it.

Chadman
01-11-2013, 01:14 AM
At some point, those young guys are going to play. You don't draft 1st & 2nd round guys without thinking they'll be stepping into the starting line-up at some stage. While it's not ideal, the financial situation might force their hand on this one.

Wonder how much KC's Brandon Albert will cost to come play LG....

thor75
01-11-2013, 01:56 AM
Well for those of you who want younger, hungrier guys getting playing time, here you go!

Actually, I think this is the best (and most cost-effective) lineup...we just need the right OL coach...

Carnell Lake has done a good job with the DB's in a short time, lets hope the new OL coach can do the same. I hope the FO hits it out of the ballpark with this hire. And they have to find a way to re-sign Foster.

supersteeler
01-11-2013, 06:23 AM
If we lose the players Ed mentioned on the line, lose Mike Wallace, a TE that may not start the 2013 season and a RB that calls for a rest between plays, how is that improving this offense?
We need help in various positions, but the reality is we failed to make the playoffs because our offense failed at critical points of games we played.
You would think offense would be a priority this off season for the team to get better, but if they aren't careful they could take a step backwards with the offense.
I'm tired of this team struggling to score points, there is no excuse for it when we have the talent except for RB, but if they think what ED said will be the way to go then I would be very worried about the depth of our O-line, the health of Ben. Now I hope Gilbert proves he is well capable of playing LT and hope what they do will improve this offense but uncertainty seems to be at the forefront at this paticular time.

Slapstick
01-11-2013, 07:05 AM
Not really. Steelers go cheap on offense then blame the offense for losses. Gotta have that top D to play renegade for though.

Spending money on defense didn't create more turnovers on that side of the ball...I doubt spending money on offense will create less turnovers on that side...

Besides, I dont think spending $100 million on your franchise QB and then putting 2 first round draft picks and 2 second round draft picks in front of him is all that cheap...

Mister Pittsburgh
01-11-2013, 09:02 AM
Spending money on defense didn't create more turnovers on that side of the ball...I doubt spending money on offense will create less turnovers on that side...

Besides, I dont think spending $100 million on your franchise QB and then putting 2 first round draft picks and 2 second round draft picks in front of him is all that cheap...

Look at the turnover on our offense over the last 6 years then look at the defense. It's clear the Steelers put a lot more emphasis on defense then they do on offense. Guess we will see by who they keep, and who they let go and replace with cheap younger players.

btw, the money spent on D is old money. To think spending money on superior offensive linemen won't pay off is silly.

Slapstick
01-11-2013, 09:36 AM
Look at the turnover on our offense over the last 6 years then look at the defense. It's clear the Steelers put a lot more emphasis on defense then they do on offense. Guess we will see by who they keep, and who they let go and replace with cheap younger players.

btw, the money spent on D is old money. To think spending money on superior offensive linemen won't pay off is silly.

We've spent a bunch of premium draft picks on superior offensive linemen.

phillyesq
01-11-2013, 09:59 AM
When the defense is old and the offense is young, that's what happens.

5 of the last 9 premium picks were on offense and 6 of the 10 picks in the last draft were on offense.

feltdizz
01-11-2013, 10:20 AM
By Ben... see you in 2014. There is no way Ben stays upright with Gilbert at LT.

feltdizz
01-11-2013, 10:24 AM
I don't have any problems with Gilbert at LT. He was gonna play there sooner or later. They originally drafted him to play that very position. How quickly we forget that he played a lot for the 2011 Steelers and did just fine when he was in there. I'd still like to see Legs at C (plus draft a C in a later round like 3 or 4) and move Pouncey to LG. I thought he did a great job in there LG this year.

Gilbert NEVER finishes a game. He is the reason our OL suffered last year. The guy is an accident waiting to happen and lacks the hunger to play 2 full games in a row.

Oviedo
01-11-2013, 11:31 AM
Not really. Steelers go cheap on offense then blame the offense for losses. Gotta have that top D to play renegade for though.

Correct. The defense gets the lions share of the resources to get fewer sacks and INTs and we blame the offense.

Good discussion on Mike and Mike this morning with Herm Edwards. he pretty much said the defensive rankings where we were #1 are meaningless because they are based only on yards. He said in today's NFL turnovers on defense are what counts, i.e. how many times you sack the QB and how many INTs and fumbles you get. Exactly the point I have been making for 2+ years. We may have a defense that is ranked high but it has ceased to impact games like it use too.

The frustrating part is we are paying huge salries to players on defense who are making those impactful plays. IMO LeBeau is part of the problem with his "tackle the catch" and play it safe philosophy versus instilling an aggressive attack the ball philosophy. I think that is a major source of our 4th qtr failures. In our desire to not give up "the big play" we give up lots of high percentage "little plays" that combined have the same effect as a "big play."

Slapstick
01-11-2013, 11:44 AM
We blame the offense for not taking care of the ball...

Yards really don't mean much...but points sure as hell do...

Our defense did not give up a lot a points at all...that is the measure of a D...

Sugar
01-11-2013, 12:11 PM
We blame the offense for not taking care of the ball...

Yards really don't mean much...but points sure as hell do...

Our defense did not give up a lot a points at all...that is the measure of a D...

Exactly. The propensity to turn the ball over and the failure to score points are on the O. The D started the season a bit shaky, but turned it up at the end of the year. I would take this D in the playoffs and even Sushi. The O and the rest of the ST's? Not so much...

steelz09
01-11-2013, 12:18 PM
I think it's respectable that Beachum played o.k as a 3rd string rookie at RT but does that give them any indication that he can start at LG? Who knows. To me, G is a cerebral position compared to T which is more of a physical/athletic position. That of course isn't taking into consideration G's that have great "pulling" ability.

Letting Foster walk is a bad idea but he can probably get paid more by some other team. I don't think the Steelers want Foster to walk. I think that decision is simply $$ based.

Letting Colon walk is a good idea regardless of "dead money". I said signing Colon to that deal was a bad signing when it happened. As it turned out, it was a very poor signing.

Letting Starks walk is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard. What has Gilbert done to be handed the LT position? My goodness that's a scary thought. You can make an argument that Starks was the most consistent player on offense with the exception of Miller. Could you imagine what the last 2 years would have been like without Starks stepping into the lineup and performing well?

The depth is a SERIOUS issue considering our players can't stay healthy.

I just don't get it anymore.... Is Tomlin/Colbert trying to make this a sub-500 team? With decisions like Gilbert over Starks, they are on the fast track to getting us there. Where is the talent evaluation of players especially on the o-line?

Releasing Urbik? Failure
Signing Colon to a large deal? Failure
Releasing Starks the first time? Failure
Thinking Jonathan Scott was a starting LT? Failure
Releasing Starks the second time? Failure

and coming soon.....

Letting Starks walk a 3rd time in favor of Gilbert starting at LT? Failure.

Slapstick
01-11-2013, 12:26 PM
I think it's respectable that Beachum played o.k as a 3rd string rookie at RT but does that give them any indication that he can start at LG? Who knows. To me, G is a cerebral position compared to T which is more of a physical/athletic position. That of course isn't taking into consideration G's that have great "pulling" ability.

Letting Foster walk is a bad idea but he can probably get paid more for some other team. I don't think the Steelers want Foster to walk. I think that decision is simply $$ based.

Letting Colon walk is a good idea regardless of "dead money". I said signing Colon to that deal was a bad signing when it happened. As it turned out, it was a very poor signing.

Letting Starks walk is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard. What has Gilbert done to be handed the LT position? My goodness that's a scary thought. You can make an argument that Starks was the most consistent player on offense with the exception of Miller. Could you imagine what the last 2 years would have been without Starks stepping into the lineup and performing well?

The depth is a SERIOUS issue considering our players can't stay healthy.

I just don't get it anymore.... Is Tomlin/Colbert trying to make this a sub-500 team? With decisions like Gilbert over Starks, they are on the fast track on getting us there.

It's all a cap issue...

Gilbert is under contract, Starks is not...people clamor for the young guys to get in and play...this is their chance...

IIRC, Starks didn't think he would be back either of the last seasons...look what happened...

Crash
01-11-2013, 01:32 PM
We blame the offense for not taking care of the ball...

Yards really don't mean much...but points sure as hell do...

Our defense did not give up a lot a points at all...that is the measure of a D...

So again? When the offense holds the ball for six minutes and beats the Eagles. You give credit to the defense for "only" giving up 7 points in the 4th?

Gotta watch the games Slap, not the box score.

Mister Pittsburgh
01-11-2013, 02:04 PM
It's all a cap issue...

Gilbert is under contract, Starks is not...people clamor for the young guys to get in and play...this is their chance...

IIRC, Starks didn't think he would be back either of the last seasons...look what happened...
It's a cap issue yet the money is tied up on the D side of the ball!

Oviedo
01-11-2013, 03:19 PM
It's a cap issue yet the money is tied up on the D side of the ball!

Exactly, we are going to let our most consistent offensive lineman Starks walk while we bend over backwards to keep a fading Harrison (add in a vanishing, except for weight, Lamar Woodley). People will immediately ask who starts if we get rid of Harrison? That is the same question that I will ask if we get rid of Starks? IMO easy answer--I think Worilds is far better prepared to replace Harrison than Gilbert or Adams are to replace Starks.

The problem is we have a defense first mindset in our Steelers DNA however this is now an offense first league. need to quit bdefaulting to taking care of the defense and make real improvement on the offense or 5 years from now we will realize that we have wasted Ben's time with us and we will wait another 10-15 years to get another franchise QB like we did after Bradshaw left.

Slapstick
01-11-2013, 04:01 PM
It's a cap issue yet the money is tied up on the D side of the ball!

And? If they cut a bunch of defensive players, the cap money will be tied up in dead money...

steelz09
01-11-2013, 04:40 PM
Exactly, we are going to let our most consistent offensive lineman Starks walk while we bend over backwards to keep a fading Harrison (add in a vanishing, except for weight, Lamar Woodley). People will immediately ask who starts if we get rid of Harrison? That is the same question that I will ask if we get rid of Starks? IMO easy answer--I think Worilds is far better prepared to replace Harrison than Gilbert or Adams are to replace Starks.


Valid point.

lloydroid
01-11-2013, 05:05 PM
I think it's respectable that Beachum played o.k as a 3rd string rookie at RT but does that give them any indication that he can start at LG? Who knows. To me, G is a cerebral position compared to T which is more of a physical/athletic position. That of course isn't taking into consideration G's that have great "pulling" ability.

Letting Foster walk is a bad idea but he can probably get paid more by some other team. I don't think the Steelers want Foster to walk. I think that decision is simply $$ based.

Letting Colon walk is a good idea regardless of "dead money". I said signing Colon to that deal was a bad signing when it happened. As it turned out, it was a very poor signing.

Letting Starks walk is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard. What has Gilbert done to be handed the LT position? My goodness that's a scary thought. You can make an argument that Starks was the most consistent player on offense with the exception of Miller. Could you imagine what the last 2 years would have been like without Starks stepping into the lineup and performing well?

The depth is a SERIOUS issue considering our players can't stay healthy.

I just don't get it anymore.... Is Tomlin/Colbert trying to make this a sub-500 team? With decisions like Gilbert over Starks, they are on the fast track to getting us there. Where is the talent evaluation of players especially on the o-line?

Releasing Urbik? Failure
Signing Colon to a large deal? Failure
Releasing Starks the first time? Failure
Thinking Jonathan Scott was a starting LT? Failure
Releasing Starks the second time? Failure

and coming soon.....

Letting Starks walk a 3rd time in favor of Gilbert starting at LT? Failure.

Why are they so adamant to force inferior players into the OL? What do they have against Starks? This is pure insanity. "Our OL stinks; quick, get rid of its best player." Starks is not among the best LTs in the league, but he isn't bad. He is certainly worth keeping around; we won 2 rings with him, for cripes sake. I am really beginning to wonder about the wisdom of the ownership and front office of this team. They are looking like idiots right about now.

Oviedo
01-11-2013, 05:16 PM
Why are they so adamant to force inferior players into the OL? What do they have against Starks? This is pure insanity. "Our OL stinks; quick, get rid of its best player." Starks is not among the best LTs in the league, but he isn't bad. He is certainly worth keeping around; we won 2 rings with him, for cripes sake. I am really beginning to wonder about the wisdom of the ownership and front office of this team. They are looking like idiots right about now.

See my comment on the obsession with "defense first." The Steel Curtain is gone...forever. Balance the investment in both sides of the ball and quit always making LeBeau's job easy for him...he is a "genius!"

Crash
01-11-2013, 05:19 PM
What sucks is the ONLY one who makes LeBeau's job tough on him and his players is LeBeau himself.

lloydroid
01-11-2013, 07:04 PM
See my comment on the obsession with "defense first." The Steel Curtain is gone...forever. Balance the investment in both sides of the ball and quit always making LeBeau's job easy for him...he is a "genius!"

But even back in the Steel Curtain days, they had a very good OL, and even had a decent one through the pathetic 80s. And, had one, for the most part, in the Cowher era. The only units they kind of let tatter was the QB and play makers through the 80s and somewhat in the 90s.

hawaiiansteel
01-11-2013, 07:33 PM
Steelers Expected to Keep Ramon Foster over Willie Colon for Left Guard Position

When the Steelers were put on the clock during the 2012 NFL Draft they were ecstatic to see that the top guard in the draft, David DeCastro of Stanford, was still on the board. They wasted no time making DeCastro their selection and added him to a young core of players on their improving offensive line. DeCastro, a right guard in college, is expected to play on the right side for many years to come and the Steelers hope he will help improve a struggling running game.

On the left side the Steelers have been looking for a replacement sine Alan Faneca left via free agency. Chris Kemoeatu gave the Steelers four penalty filled, but decent years at left guard. Kemoeatu was never the player the Steelers hoped he would be however, and they are still looking for their guy. In 2012 they moved Willie Colon from right tackle to left guard and he played well at times, but doesnít seem to fit the position.

The Steelers are looking for young athletic offensive lineman. Maurkice Pouncey and David DeCastro fit the bill as do Mike Adams and Marcus Gilbert, who project as the offensive tackles of the future. Pittsburgh would like to use their guards to pull and get to the edge, but Colon is unable to move well enough to do so. Ramon Foster may also struggle to pull due to his size, but a lighter more athletic Foster could be the perfect answer at left guard.

Foster just turned 27 and hasnít had any injury issues during his career. He was the Steelers second most consistent lineman in 2012 behind Max Starks and the Steelers will try and lock him up this off-season. Willie Colon, on the other hand, will turn 30 in a few months and hasnít played a full season of football since 2009.

Colon is still under contract for the 2013 season, but cutting him is a very likely option for the Steelers as it would save them around $1.2 million in total. However, it would save them around $5.5 million in 2013 and cause a cap hit of around $4.3 million in 2014. Therefore, the Steelers would open up the space to sign Foster as well as save some extra cap space, but they would have to deal with that cap hit in 2014.

So the Steelers best bet would be to cut Colon and resign Foster to a long-term deal. One thing they must do this off-season, however, is to get Foster into a training regimen. Foster should look to lose around 10-20 pounds, add strength, and improve his agility this off-season. If he can do that the Steelers should have a very strong interior on the offensive line with Foster, DeCastro and Pouncey; of course that all depends on if they can stay healthy.

Both Gerry Dulac and Ed Bouchette of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette have said this is the scenario that they expect to see play out this off-season. Willie Colon is a talented football player, but bad luck and not fitting into the scheme that Todd Haley is looking for will force him out of Pittsburgh. When Haley was in Kansas City as the Chiefs head coach he had one of the lightest offensive lines in the NFL, but he also led the league in rushing.

If Foster and other Steelers players are looking for a good training system to get into better shape they may want to talk to Ziggy Hood. During the 2012 off-season Hood trained with Outer Limits Sports and cut his body fat percent, dropped weight, added muscle, and got more athletic.

http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/steelers_expected_to_keep_ramon_foster_over_willie _colon_for_left_guard_position/12635485

BigRob
01-11-2013, 08:27 PM
Steelers Expected to Keep Ramon Foster over Willie Colon for Left Guard Position

When the Steelers were put on the clock during the 2012 NFL Draft they were ecstatic to see that the top guard in the draft, David DeCastro of Stanford, was still on the board. They wasted no time making DeCastro their selection and added him to a young core of players on their improving offensive line. DeCastro, a right guard in college, is expected to play on the right side for many years to come and the Steelers hope he will help improve a struggling running game.

On the left side the Steelers have been looking for a replacement sine Alan Faneca left via free agency. Chris Kemoeatu gave the Steelers four penalty filled, but decent years at left guard. Kemoeatu was never the player the Steelers hoped he would be however, and they are still looking for their guy. In 2012 they moved Willie Colon from right tackle to left guard and he played well at times, but doesnít seem to fit the position.

The Steelers are looking for young athletic offensive lineman. Maurkice Pouncey and David DeCastro fit the bill as do Mike Adams and Marcus Gilbert, who project as the offensive tackles of the future. Pittsburgh would like to use their guards to pull and get to the edge, but Colon is unable to move well enough to do so. Ramon Foster may also struggle to pull due to his size, but a lighter more athletic Foster could be the perfect answer at left guard.

Foster just turned 27 and hasnít had any injury issues during his career. He was the Steelers second most consistent lineman in 2012 behind Max Starks and the Steelers will try and lock him up this off-season. Willie Colon, on the other hand, will turn 30 in a few months and hasnít played a full season of football since 2009.

Colon is still under contract for the 2013 season, but cutting him is a very likely option for the Steelers as it would save them around $1.2 million in total. However, it would save them around $5.5 million in 2013 and cause a cap hit of around $4.3 million in 2014. Therefore, the Steelers would open up the space to sign Foster as well as save some extra cap space, but they would have to deal with that cap hit in 2014.

So the Steelers best bet would be to cut Colon and resign Foster to a long-term deal. One thing they must do this off-season, however, is to get Foster into a training regimen. Foster should look to lose around 10-20 pounds, add strength, and improve his agility this off-season. If he can do that the Steelers should have a very strong interior on the offensive line with Foster, DeCastro and Pouncey; of course that all depends on if they can stay healthy.

Both Gerry Dulac and Ed Bouchette of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette have said this is the scenario that they expect to see play out this off-season. Willie Colon is a talented football player, but bad luck and not fitting into the scheme that Todd Haley is looking for will force him out of Pittsburgh. When Haley was in Kansas City as the Chiefs head coach he had one of the lightest offensive lines in the NFL, but he also led the league in rushing.

If Foster and other Steelers players are looking for a good training system to get into better shape they may want to talk to Ziggy Hood. During the 2012 off-season Hood trained with Outer Limits Sports and cut his body fat percent, dropped weight, added muscle, and got more athletic.

http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/steelers_expected_to_keep_ramon_foster_over_willie _colon_for_left_guard_position/12635485

I expect the line to start out as Gilbert-Foster-Pouncey-Decastro-Adams next year.

I forget who reported it besides Douchette and Dushlac, but Haley is requesting more athletic O-linemen to run his scheme. They will re-sign Foster if he commits to getting in better shape. He needs to be more mobile.

Mister Pittsburgh
01-11-2013, 08:45 PM
What is really weird is Legursky is probably their most cerebral and athletic OL yet he can only really play OC. Coming out of college he ran like a 4.8 40yds and was a powerlifting stud. On paper he looks like the perfect LG for what they want their LG to do.

http://www.herald-dispatch.com/sports/x668259069?i=0

HUNTINGTON -- Ask a pair of National Football League Draft prospects about Doug Legursky and they respond with laughter.


During separate interviews, Keilen Dykes and Harry Douglas raved concerning their workout teammate. Legursky, Marshall University's former center, is training for the April 26-27 draft with former West Virginia defensive lineman Dykes and Douglas, a highly-regarded wide receiver from Louisville.


Dykes and Douglas simply chuckled at the mention of Legursky, whose athleticism betrays his stout, 6-foot-3, 300-pound plus frame.


"Doug is a freak in the weight room," said Dykes a fellow 300-pounder who works out with Legursky at Huntington's High Intensity Training Center under local agent Dave Rich. "He puts up big numbers. He's a big power guy."


Legursky established numerous weight room records during his four-year Thundering Herd career. The Beckley native was a starting player as a true freshman and is working toward delivering a similar immediate impression with NFL scouts and coaches.


Marshall's Pro Day on March 21 offers Legursky's best opportunity to elevate his draft status. Douglas said the four-year starter is well-prepped for the extensive tryout, which includes a 40-yard dash, shuttle runs, bench press drills and interviews, along with actual football-specific workouts.


"I've been really impressed with Doug," Douglas said. "To be so big, he's in and out of cuts like a receiver.


"Scouts want you to keep your pad levels low and Doug does that very well. I've been very impressed with Doug; and he's strong."


Dykes literally has been more hands-on with Legursky's training. They work with/against each other in lineman drills, and like Douglas, Dykes simply chuckles at Legursky's blend of power and mobility.


"Doug is running times faster than (defensive ends) did at the (NFL) Combine," Dykes said. "It's been crazy. I see what he's running, like a 4.77, and I'm like 'wow.'


"He's athletic and if you want to see someone who's good on their feet, Doug is that guy. He's putting up shuttle times that are crazy for a big guy like that."


Legursky and quarterback Bernard Morris are Marshall's top prospects for the NFL Draft. Fourteen Thundering Herd players have been selected since the 1998 Draft, including Ahmad Bradshaw, who earned a Super Bowl ring with the New York Giants as a rookie last season.


Legursky is a wild card entering the draft. He wasn't invited to the NFL Combine, but his test numbers, including 36 bench presses at 225 pounds, measure favorably with his peers. He can play center and guard and is working with all-time Marshall great Mike Bartrum on long-snapping.


"He's got great movement," Dykes said. "At the center spot they want to see you get to that level and pick off linebackers and Doug can do that.


"At his Pro Day he's going to shine."



http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2011-08-31/pittsburgh-steelers-camp-report-lineman-doug-legursky-gets-shot-with-first-team

Legursky, the team’s backup center, started four games at right guard last season before he was replaced by Ramon Foster, who started the final 10 games. Legursky is the smartest offensive lineman on the team but, at 6-1, 315 pounds, he is also the smallest.


One of the reasons the team switched to Foster (6-6, 330) in 2010 is because they prefer a bigger body at right guard, especially against the Ravens, their season-opening opponent.

pfelix73
01-11-2013, 09:27 PM
Yep. I remember him coming out of Marshall. He's the strongest OL on the team and quite possible the strongest player on the Steelers roster. I still say move Pouncey to LG and let Doug play C. Well, if they are looking for Foster to add some strength, lose some weight, and get on a program, hiring Tunch and even Wolfley would be a great idea. Wolfley would give him a good program to follow this off season.

Eddie Spaghetti
01-11-2013, 09:34 PM
legursky sure does get pushed backwards a lot for such a strong guy.

Mister Pittsburgh
01-11-2013, 09:39 PM
legursky sure does get pushed backwards a lot for such a strong guy.

I just don't get it.

Oviedo
01-12-2013, 10:01 AM
I expect the line to start out as Gilbert-Foster-Pouncey-Decastro-Adams next year.

I forget who reported it besides Douchette and Dushlac, but Haley is requesting more athletic O-linemen to run his scheme. They will re-sign Foster if he commits to getting in better shape. He needs to be more mobile.

The Gilbert part of that line is the concern because there is no Plan B. The better plan is to bring back Starks and let Gilbert and Adams fight it out for RT.

Oviedo
01-12-2013, 10:03 AM
legursky sure does get pushed backwards a lot for such a strong guy.

I have to assume he lacks technique which is probably why he was a UDFA. His poor technique may be less of a problem at Center when he has a Guard helping him but when he ahs to go one on one you are right he gets blown up quite a bit.

phillyesq
01-12-2013, 12:36 PM
So the Steelers best bet would be to cut Colon and resign Foster to a long-term deal. One thing they must do this off-season, however, is to get Foster into a training regimen. Foster should look to lose around 10-20 pounds, add strength, and improve his agility this off-season. If he can do that the Steelers should have a very strong interior on the offensive line with Foster, DeCastro and Pouncey; of course that all depends on if they can stay healthy.
http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/steelers_expected_to_keep_ramon_foster_over_willie _colon_for_left_guard_position/12635485

A conditioning program is needed for all of them. Willie Colon was in awful shape last year which likely contributed to his knee injury. Foster and Gilbert have never been in good shape, either.

NorthCoast
01-12-2013, 12:49 PM
Look at the turnover on our offense over the last 6 years then look at the defense. It's clear the Steelers put a lot more emphasis on defense then they do on offense. Guess we will see by who they keep, and who they let go and replace with cheap younger players.

btw, the money spent on D is old money. To think spending money on superior offensive linemen won't pay off is silly.

This just tells me the Steelers know what they are doing when they draft defense, but don't have a clue on offense. Think about it. When Arians was OC and letting Ben be Ben at QB, how do you build an offense around that "system". You can't, because it isn't a "system". Its just Ben and backyard football.

Dee Dub
01-12-2013, 01:29 PM
And to make things worse, potential franchise LT types Taylor Lewan and Jake Matthews announcing that they are returning to Michigan and Texas A&M, respectively. Right now, the only other potential first round tackle (other than Joeckel who should go in the top 5) would be Central Michigan's Eric Fisher (we'll have to see how he performs against a higher level of talent at the Senior Bowl in a couple of weeks).

I wasn't on the Chance Warmack bandwagon (because I couldn't see us using 1st round picks on interior lineman in 3 out of 4 drafts), but if he is on the board, and we let Starks, Colon, and Foster all walk, then that pick would make sense as the BPA at a position of need.

I'll tell you a couple of interesting players to watch for is Howie Long's son Kyle Long (OT Oregon). Kid played baseball for awhile and is still developing. Also a guy like Khaled Holmes (C USC). He can play any center or guard. These two are second/third round possibilities who could provide depth as well as possibly developing into studs.

Crash
01-12-2013, 01:31 PM
This just tells me the Steelers know what they are doing when they draft defense, but don't have a clue on offense. Think about it. When Arians was OC and letting Ben be Ben at QB, how do you build an offense around that "system". You can't, because it isn't a "system". Its just Ben and backyard football.


Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz,,,,,,,,

"Backyard football" wasn't as prominent as Ben Haters think it is.

Dee Dub
01-12-2013, 01:32 PM
As far as the O-line for next year is concerned and who will be there, lets keep in mind that if Todd Haley and his system is back it is a system that gets the ball out quickly. Or at least quicker than before. Steeler QB's were sacked 37 times last year. Which as we know from years past, inst all that bad.

NorthCoast
01-12-2013, 03:28 PM
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz,,,,,,,,

"Backyard football" wasn't as prominent as Ben Haters think it is.

This season was Ben's second lowest Yds/att since entering the league (in his career lowest year, the Steelers won the Superbowl). Ben's Yds/att have been trending down in parallel with the decline of the OL.

Crash
01-12-2013, 04:10 PM
This season was Ben's second lowest Yds/att since entering the league (in his career lowest year, the Steelers won the Superbowl). Ben's Yds/att have been trending down in parallel with the decline of the OL.

That's what happens when we don't go vertical anymore.

We took the NFL's best deep threat and turned him into Courtney Hawkins.

Scheme, not school yard.

Eddie Spaghetti
01-12-2013, 04:18 PM
We took the NFL's best deep threat and turned him into Courtney Hawkins.

agree with this.

like taking a ferarri to the grocery store.

Crash
01-12-2013, 04:25 PM
3rd and 8, biggest play of the season prior to Suisham's FG miss against the Bengals.

We had Mike Wallace run a 5 yard stop rout, and we had our #2 TE running deep.

Nice play design.

FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORE!

NJ-STEELER
01-12-2013, 07:56 PM
A conditioning program is needed for all of them. Willie Colon was in awful shape last year which likely contributed to his knee injury. Foster and Gilbert have never been in good shape, either.


didnt his injuries start when suggs went down for his knees as willie was coming around to smash him

hawaiiansteel
01-13-2013, 02:43 PM
On the Steelers: Beachum will be part of rebuilt offensive line

January 13, 2013
By Ed Bouchette / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

http://db66abc2c256b763aaef-ce5d943d4869ae027976e5ad085dd9b0.r76.cf2.rackcdn.c om/2013/12/287/tomlinjpg_420.jpg

Steelers coach Mike Tomlin likely will have to deal with a new-look offensive line in 2013.

The Steelers offensive line will change dramatically for 2013.

Three regular starters likely won't return and all three players who took turns starting at right tackle should start at separate positions.

There is a caveat to all of this, of course: Provided they all stay healthy.

Look for Max Starks and Ramon Foster to leave in free agency and Willie Colon to be released. Colon's knee injury that placed him on injured reserve for the third season in a row was the last straw. The Steelers want to move on, and they believe they have the right man to replace him.

They drafted Kelvin Beachum -- their fourth and final pick in the seventh round last year -- to play guard, even though he started at tackle for all 52 games of his four years at SMU. When Marcus Gilbert and Mike Adams were shelved by injuries after starting at right tackle, the Steelers turned to Beachum. He started the final five games and did a nice job. It helped to convince them he can start at guard.

They will turn right tackle over to Adams. Gilbert will start at left tackle. There was a time many assumed Adams would play left tackle, but he is a more natural right tackle, a better run blocker, and Gilbert's more natural position is left tackle.

David DeCastro will take over at right guard as he did at the end of the season when he became healthy. And, of course, there is three-time Pro Bowl center Maurkice Pouncey.

Their backups are to be determined because at the moment only John Malecki is under contract from their season-ending roster.

That, ladies and gents, is your 2013 Pittsburgh Steelers offensive line. Check back for medical updates.

The medical charts

As to those medical problems, Art Rooney II is correct in his plans to investigate them further. It's not just been this season, but last season as well, that the team suffered an inordinate number of injuries.

The first place to look would be at the various leg injuries. Do they have more than other teams? If so, how do they alter their approach in training or practices to prevent them?

There is also the matter of the new CBA that limits the time in which players can be supervised in their training during the offseason by coaches or trainers, even when they're working out at the team facility.

"I think that we have to look at as a league where we are with some of the rules in terms of conditioning and how often the players can be in the building and what they can do here," Rooney said. "I'd like to see us have some of that loosened up a little bit. That obviously is not something that is completely in our control.

"In terms of things that are within our control, we have to look at those things and make sure we are doing the best we can. I think the other thing we have to do is to make our players aware that under the rules we are all operating under now, it's more on them to make sure they are performing and doing their offseason conditioning. We only have access to them for nine weeks, which is not that many weeks in the overall scheme of things. I think it is incumbent on the individual players to be more aware of that.

"Most of our players now go to one of these off-site training programs and participate in those things, at least for some part of the offseason. There is a lot that goes into it."

Ike Taylor and, previously, James Farrior were examples of that. Taylor was an iron man, playing 135 consecutive games at cornerback before a hairline fracture of his right ankle knocked him out of the final four games this season. Farrior missed a total of six games in his decade with the Steelers, no more than two in one season. Both trained extremely hard with trainers in the offseason.

Remember Jed Hughes?

A former Steelers linebackers coach is leading the search team to hire a new general manager for the New York Jets and is the one who chose Omar Khan to be interviewed.

Jed Hughes, who coached the linebackers under Chuck Noll from 1984-88, heads the sports division of the executive search firm Korn/Ferry of Los Angeles. He has been in that business for 20 years and lives in Ligonier, where he had made his home for nearly two decades.

Hughes tapped Khan once before when he was conducting the search for Seattle's general manager. Khan interviewed for that job three years ago.

Hughes fell victim to a sweeping change in Noll's coaching staff after a 5-11 season in 1988. He was one of several coaches fired by Noll, who was under pressure from Dan Rooney to make those changes. Another change Noll made in that process was to tell Tony Dungy he would be demoted from defensive coordinator to secondary coach. Dungy resigned instead.

The Haley interview

Why all the mystery and denials that Todd Haley was interviewing in Arizona for the Cardinals head-coaching job Wednesday?

That was a strange series of events. Kent Somers of the Arizona Republic writes that a source told him he would be interviewed. I confirmed it with two sources at the Steelers, and then president Art Rooney II confirmed it publicly on two different occasions to four reporters.

So why did Haley's agent continue to deny in strong terms to Ian Rapoport of the NFL Network and NFL.com that he was interviewing with Arizona?

Strange indeed. Not long after the Steelers gave Arizona permission to interview Haley, word filtered out that Haley might not interview with the Cardinals unless he was sure they were serious in hiring him. Sources said Haley was happy with his job and did not want the Steelers to think he was job-hunting.

Maybe that is why he and/or his agent wanted to try to keep the interview with the Cardinals quiet. It occurred, we are told, at an undisclosed location. But the Steelers are the ones who acknowledged the interview, so they obviously knew. What would be the purpose of trying to keep others in the dark?

Either way, the fiasco should in no way impugn Haley's qualifications for the job, and, so far, he wasn't the one who lied about it. His agent more likely badly fumbled orders from Haley to keep it quiet. He would have been better off saying nothing at all.

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/on-the-steelers-beachum-will-be-part-of-rebuilt-offensive-line-670169/#ixzz2HsVctIqa