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Steelhere10
01-09-2013, 04:28 PM
With Tomlin and have high confidence in him, also thought Haley did a excellent job and want him back. Will look into the way they train because of injuries. Says Haley is interviewing with Cards today. From several tweets.

Steelhere10
01-09-2013, 04:31 PM
Also said they need to pressure the qb better, and not sure about any other coaching change on the staff.

Crash
01-09-2013, 04:31 PM
See ya in Philly Ben...

Steelhere10
01-09-2013, 04:38 PM
See ya in Philly Ben...Also said that they expect Ben for the next 5yrs.

lloydroid
01-09-2013, 04:47 PM
With Tomlin and have high confidence in him, also thought Haley did a excellent job and want him back. Will look into the way they train because of injuries. Says Haley is interviewing with Cards today. From several tweets.

Oh Gee Whiz, as long as HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE is happy, then it's all good. This just in: Us fans are NOT happy, as matter of fact, most of us are ticked off. And if this joke of a situation continues, many of us will stop spending a dime on Steeler football.

Sugar
01-09-2013, 06:31 PM
Oh Gee Whiz, as long as HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE is happy, then it's all good. This just in: Us fans are NOT happy, as matter of fact, most of us are ticked off. And if this joke of a situation continues, many of us will stop spending a dime on Steeler football.

Nobody likes missing the playoffs, but the problems seemed to be more health related than institutional problems. It happens. They will have to follow this year with a couple losing seasons before I'll get to the point of wanting to change HC's, GM's or QB's.

Chadman
01-09-2013, 06:43 PM
Oh Gee Whiz, as long as HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE is happy, then it's all good. This just in: Us fans are NOT happy, as matter of fact, most of us are ticked off. And if this joke of a situation continues, many of us will stop spending a dime on Steeler football.

"Joke of a situation"?? What situation are you talking about?

Mister Pittsburgh
01-09-2013, 06:46 PM
Roid - what should Art 2 have said?

Crash
01-09-2013, 06:48 PM
He shouldn't say anything. He needs to stay out of the limelight and own.

He's going to be on DVE tomorrow morning also.

And people want to tell me he's not like Jerry Jones?

SS Laser
01-09-2013, 06:55 PM
"Joke of a situation"?? What situation are you talking about?

Do you have to poke the goanna?

Chadman
01-09-2013, 06:56 PM
Here's the sticking points for Chadman from Rooney:

He says the Offense was "right on pace" through 9 games, and that Ben was achieving his goal of 'much fewer sacks'.

That's rubbish. Firstly, Rooney was adamant- so much so that he sacked Arians- that the Offense needed to run more. The result? We ran less this year than ANY YEAR UNDER ARAINS. Even the 2012 Colts, under ARAINS, ran the ball more than the 2012 Steelers. This Offense was not on the pre-2012 season Rooney version of 'Right on pace'. In fact, Haley's offense was doing the polar opposite of what Rooney wanted. As for the sacks- 42 last year, 37 this year. Is 5 'much less'?

He then goes on to say 'focus' played it's part in the Steelers woes. Right- agreed. But who was to blame for a lack of focus & team chemistry this season? How about the 'retiring' of Arians, obviously not a choice of Tomlin's, before the season kicked off? How did that work for 'focus'? was it a distraction? The media sure thought so. And then hiring Haley, who everyone knew has the tendency to 'shake things up'. How did that help 'focus' when your star QB is suddenly given an OC designed to 'shake the cage'? And then the Mike Wallace/Antonio Brown contract saga- want to talk about focus & team chemistry? How do you think Brown getting Wallace's 'money' helped 'focus' this season?

The very things Rooney bemoans as reasons for a poor season stem from him.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

One needs to look within themselves, Chadman suspects.

SS Laser
01-09-2013, 06:56 PM
So nice to have you back Crash.

Chadman
01-09-2013, 07:01 PM
Do you have to poke the goanna?

Well, with Crash back... Chadman feels inspired!

:D

Crash
01-09-2013, 07:07 PM
Crash very much enjoyed that Chadman post.

Chadman
01-09-2013, 07:15 PM
:D

From the very beginning of the season, there were so many 'niggles' that didn't need to happen.

Chadman believes the Steelers could have overcome the injuries, could have overcome predictable play calling, could have overcome age, could have overcome pretty much anything really...

So long as the FO had not been Hell-bent on shooting Arians against Tomlin's will.

There are some worrying signs for the TEAM- older guys are slipping, younger guys are not developing fast enough... but if they had played focussed football, like they have pretty much most of Tomlin's reign, Chadman suspects that this was a 10 or 11 win Steelers team.

Just to be sure- this is not Chadman debating if Arians is a greater OC to Haley.... both have merits... it's about team chemistry. It was messed with, by the suits- and that's a problem.

Crash
01-09-2013, 07:21 PM
Yep. If Tomlin isn't allowed to have who he wants as OC and DC at this point? When will he?

A total waste of a season.

All because a silver spoon wants to play GM.

hawaiiansteel
01-09-2013, 07:29 PM
Crash very much enjoyed that Chadman post.

it makes Hawaiiansteel very happy that Crash enjoyed that Chadman post...:D

Chadman
01-09-2013, 07:30 PM
Yep. If Tomlin isn't allowed to have who he wants as OC and DC at this point? When will he?

A total waste of a season.

All because a silver spoon wants to play GM.

You have to let the HC live & die by his choices- or you can never blame them at all..which is simply never going to happen.

Chadman
01-09-2013, 07:32 PM
it makes Hawaiiansteel very happy that Crash enjoyed that Chadman post...:D

Chadman is positively chuffed that he made Hawaiiansteel happy because he had previously made Crash happy.

Oviedo
01-09-2013, 07:32 PM
Here's the sticking points for Chadman from Rooney:

He says the Offense was "right on pace" through 9 games, and that Ben was achieving his goal of 'much fewer sacks'.

That's rubbish. Firstly, Rooney was adamant- so much so that he sacked Arians- that the Offense needed to run more. The result? We ran less this year than ANY YEAR UNDER ARAINS. Even the 2012 Colts, under ARAINS, ran the ball more than the 2012 Steelers. This Offense was not on the pre-2012 season Rooney version of 'Right on pace'. In fact, Haley's offense was doing the polar opposite of what Rooney wanted. As for the sacks- 42 last year, 37 this year. Is 5 'much less'?

He then goes on to say 'focus' played it's part in the Steelers woes. Right- agreed. But who was to blame for a lack of focus & team chemistry this season? How about the 'retiring' of Arians, obviously not a choice of Tomlin's, before the season kicked off? How did that work for 'focus'? was it a distraction? The media sure thought so. And then hiring Haley, who everyone knew has the tendency to 'shake things up'. How did that help 'focus' when your star QB is suddenly given an OC designed to 'shake the cage'? And then the Mike Wallace/Antonio Brown contract saga- want to talk about focus & team chemistry? How do you think Brown getting Wallace's 'money' helped 'focus' this season?

The very things Rooney bemoans as reasons for a poor season stem from him.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

One needs to look within themselves, Chadman suspects.

I think it ceased to be Wallace's money when he said he didn't want it. What should the team have done, risk having both Brown and Wallace leave. Everyone sooner or later has to accept the fact that Wallace doesn't want to stay. He isn't a victim.

Crash
01-09-2013, 07:41 PM
Wallace wants to stay, but only at his price.

That was BEFORE the season. I would bet right now though that the offense itself, is more of a hindrance for Wallace than money is.

They weren't that far off on guaranteed money. If both sides wanted to they could get it done.

Chadman
01-09-2013, 08:37 PM
I think it ceased to be Wallace's money when he said he didn't want it. What should the team have done, risk having both Brown and Wallace leave. Everyone sooner or later has to accept the fact that Wallace doesn't want to stay. He isn't a victim.

Wouldn't Brown have been an RFA like Sanders this off season?

Steelers wouldn't have lost him. Plus- we'd have seen his underperforming season & paid accordingly.

They WILL lose Wallace, and be forced to draft his replacement.

supersteeler
01-09-2013, 08:47 PM
Wouldn't Brown have been an RFA like Sanders this off season?

Steelers wouldn't have lost him. Plus- we'd have seen his underperforming season & paid accordingly.
They WILL lose Wallace, and be forced to draft his replacement.


Good analysis Chadman!

papillon
01-09-2013, 11:03 PM
Chadman is positively chuffed that he made Hawaiiansteel happy because he had previously made Crash happy.

You guys need to take this love fest to the nearest hotel please and that would make Pappy happy. :p

Pappy

Chadman
01-09-2013, 11:15 PM
You guys need to take this love fest to the nearest hotel please and that would make Pappy happy. :p

Pappy

It makes Chadman sad that Pappy would only be happy if Chadman, Hawaiiansteel & Crash were happy elsewhere...


Anyway- why are you still under the bed?

Eich
01-10-2013, 09:32 AM
Here's the sticking points for Chadman from Rooney:

He says the Offense was "right on pace" through 9 games, and that Ben was achieving his goal of 'much fewer sacks'.

That's rubbish. Firstly, Rooney was adamant- so much so that he sacked Arians- that the Offense needed to run more. The result? We ran less this year than ANY YEAR UNDER ARAINS. Even the 2012 Colts, under ARAINS, ran the ball more than the 2012 Steelers.

I don't recall Rooney saying he wanted to run MORE. He said he wanted to run more EFFECTIVELY.

papillon
01-10-2013, 09:38 AM
It makes Chadman sad that Pappy would only be happy if Chadman, Hawaiiansteel & Crash were happy elsewhere...


Anyway- why are you still under the bed?

Just keeping an eye on things. ;)

Pappy

Slapstick
01-10-2013, 09:45 AM
Steelers wouldn't have lost him. Plus- we'd have seen his underperforming season & paid accordingly.

Well then, thank goodness that the Steelers witnessed Wallace's underperforming season before they threw good money after bad, eh?

feltdizz
01-10-2013, 09:52 AM
We didn't run more effectively.

as far as sack totals through the first 9 games.... Ben was sacked 17 times and I think 4 of those were in the last 2 minutes of losses. I think they did a good job keeping Ben clean until he started the ugly Ben crap. After the injury he went back to old Ben and had 12 sacks in 4 games.

..and last but not least. Once Wallace turned down the money it's no longer his money.

Chadman
01-10-2013, 10:03 AM
I don't recall Rooney saying he wanted to run MORE. He said he wanted to run more EFFECTIVELY.

Then he should be doubly miffed then.

Chadman
01-10-2013, 10:06 AM
Well then, thank goodness that the Steelers witnessed Wallace's underperforming season before they threw good money after bad, eh?

:) Well played.

Still, go on- admit it- Brown didn't need to be paid $42 million 2 days after Wallace rejected an offer. Not knowing he was a RFA, not UFA, the next off season.

Chadman
01-10-2013, 10:07 AM
Just keeping an eye on things. ;)

Pappy

How's the view? :D

Slapstick
01-10-2013, 10:10 AM
:) Well played.

Still, go on- admit it- Brown didn't need to be paid $42 million 2 days after Wallace rejected an offer. Not knowing he was a RFA, not UFA, the next off season.

All I know is what I saw on the field...

With that in mind, I don't believe either player deserved that contract based upon last season...

Brown has the contract because Wallace didn't want it...now, Brown has to earn that contract going forward and Wallace will, most likely, be earning a contract somewhere else...

Chadman
01-10-2013, 10:11 AM
All I know is what I saw on the field...

With that in mind, I don't believe either player deserved that contract based upon last season...

Brown has the contract because Wallace didn't want it...now, Brown has to earn that contract going forward and Wallace will, most likely, be earning a contract somewhere else...

So we agree that the FO messed up?

Mister Pittsburgh
01-10-2013, 10:47 AM
I don't recall Rooney saying he wanted to run MORE. He said he wanted to run more EFFECTIVELY.

True story people overlook!

ikestops85
01-10-2013, 12:41 PM
I don't think I've ever seen Chadman so far off in his analysis as he is in this post.


Here's the sticking points for Chadman from Rooney:

He says the Offense was "right on pace" through 9 games, and that Ben was achieving his goal of 'much fewer sacks'.

That's rubbish. Firstly, Rooney was adamant- so much so that he sacked Arians- that the Offense needed to run more. The result? We ran less this year than ANY YEAR UNDER ARAINS. Even the 2012 Colts, under ARAINS, ran the ball more than the 2012 Steelers. This Offense was not on the pre-2012 season Rooney version of 'Right on pace'. In fact, Haley's offense was doing the polar opposite of what Rooney wanted.

First wrong point ... Rooney NEVER said we needed to run the ball more. He said we need to run the ball more EFFECTIVELY. Did we do that? Not over the course of the season but if you look at games 7, 8, and 9 you will see we were on track.


As for the sacks- 42 last year, 37 this year. Is 5 'much less'?


Again you missed the point. Rooney said we were on track through game 9. Through the first 9 games in 2011 Ben was sacked 26 times. Through the first 9 games in 2012 Ben was sacked 17 times and almost a third of those sacks came in the first game. I would say knocking your average down by 1 sack a game is a significant improvement.


He then goes on to say 'focus' played it's part in the Steelers woes. Right- agreed. But who was to blame for a lack of focus & team chemistry this season? How about the 'retiring' of Arians, obviously not a choice of Tomlin's, before the season kicked off? How did that work for 'focus'? was it a distraction? The media sure thought so. And then hiring Haley, who everyone knew has the tendency to 'shake things up'. How did that help 'focus' when your star QB is suddenly given an OC designed to 'shake the cage'? And then the Mike Wallace/Antonio Brown contract saga- want to talk about focus & team chemistry? How do you think Brown getting Wallace's 'money' helped 'focus' this season?

So now you don't want the team to make coaching changes because it will cause them to lose "focus"? :wft So you don't want the owner to try and improve an offense that is an inconsistent mess and would never win anything without its star QB. That doesn't make any sense. You want your offense to be solely dependent on one person so if that person has a bad day you are almost guaranteed a loss. It's a good thing the 49ers of the 80s didn't think that way. If Montana had a bad day then Craig, Rice, Taylor, or Brent Jones would take over.

As far as the receivers contract I don't see a problem. They tried to sign Wallace and when he turned down their final offer they moved on to whom they considered their next highest priority ... Antonio Brown. I think Wallace was going to be a distraction whether they signed Brown or not. He, or his agent, think he is worth more than the Steelers do. Do you want them to just back up the Brinks truck to Wallace's house and pay him whatever he wants so he doesn't lose focus? I don't think that is a very smart plan.


The very things Rooney bemoans as reasons for a poor season stem from him.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

One needs to look within themselves, Chadman suspects.

I agree that Rooney didn't handle the Arians situation correctly. They should have just fired him instead of trying to be nice and say he retired. That's what happens when you try and be nice ... it comes back to bite you in the azz. Other than that I think you are just tilting at windmills.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
01-10-2013, 01:02 PM
Chadman is positively chuffed that he made Hawaiiansteel happy because he had previously made Crash happy.

I'm happy you are all getting along! :p

I read Rooney's comments and it sounded like he said, "I'm not hungry but I could eat!"

Crash
01-10-2013, 01:04 PM
So you don't want the owner to try and improve an offense that is an inconsistent mess and would never win anything without its star QB.

No, I'd rather he let the people he pays to coach his football team do it.

lloydroid
01-10-2013, 04:02 PM
"Joke of a situation"?? What situation are you talking about?

Oh let me count the ways.

1. Going from 6-3 to 7-8.
2. Losing to Cle, Oak, TN and SD.
3. 26th rushing ranking, on a team that cherishes running the ball.
4. a 3.7 avg. yards per rush. Pathetic.
5. 24th in sacks, on a team that supposedly has a defense that prioritizes getting to the QB.
6. a team with players who don't give a full effort - completely unacceptable.
7. a QB who publicly rips his coaching staff.
8. a QB who throws bonehead pics in the clutch, losing games from his stupidity.
9. a coach who makes major gaffs during the games - leading to losses from pure idiocy.
10. a team that lacks hearts, chemistry and discipline.

Do I need to go on?

lloydroid
01-10-2013, 04:06 PM
Roid - what should Art 2 have said?

I would have preferred something more appropriate, like, "We have some issues that need addressed and we will address them. Most everyone on this team and staff have areas that need to improve." He didn't have to throw anyone under the bus but they "Gee whiz, everything is super groovy" take is completely unacceptable.

lloydroid
01-10-2013, 04:08 PM
He shouldn't say anything. He needs to stay out of the limelight and own.

He's going to be on DVE tomorrow morning also.

And people want to tell me he's not like Jerry Jones?

He's not where near like Jones. Not even close. Not in the same stratosphere. Jones is an fool, who constantly wants to prove he is the genius football mind responsible for the 3 rings, and all he has proven since is there is no way he was the man making personnel decisions for those rings; it was all Johnson. The more Jones tries to prove he is the man, the more he embarrasses himself.

lloydroid
01-10-2013, 04:13 PM
Here's the sticking points for Chadman from Rooney:

He says the Offense was "right on pace" through 9 games, and that Ben was achieving his goal of 'much fewer sacks'.

That's rubbish. Firstly, Rooney was adamant- so much so that he sacked Arians- that the Offense needed to run more. The result? We ran less this year than ANY YEAR UNDER ARAINS. Even the 2012 Colts, under ARAINS, ran the ball more than the 2012 Steelers. This Offense was not on the pre-2012 season Rooney version of 'Right on pace'. In fact, Haley's offense was doing the polar opposite of what Rooney wanted. As for the sacks- 42 last year, 37 this year. Is 5 'much less'?

He then goes on to say 'focus' played it's part in the Steelers woes. Right- agreed. But who was to blame for a lack of focus & team chemistry this season? How about the 'retiring' of Arians, obviously not a choice of Tomlin's, before the season kicked off? How did that work for 'focus'? was it a distraction? The media sure thought so. And then hiring Haley, who everyone knew has the tendency to 'shake things up'. How did that help 'focus' when your star QB is suddenly given an OC designed to 'shake the cage'? And then the Mike Wallace/Antonio Brown contract saga- want to talk about focus & team chemistry? How do you think Brown getting Wallace's 'money' helped 'focus' this season?

The very things Rooney bemoans as reasons for a poor season stem from him.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

One needs to look within themselves, Chadman suspects.

So you question my assertion of a "joke of a situation" and then go on to describe a "joke of a situation." And you don't even realize it. How can this be?

lloydroid
01-10-2013, 04:16 PM
True story people overlook!

And they FAILED MISERABLY, racking up a pathetic 3.7 ypc. For something that was set as such a high priority, they screwed it up immensely, ranking 26th in the league in rushing. FAIL.

lloydroid
01-10-2013, 04:24 PM
:D

From the very beginning of the season, there were so many 'niggles' that didn't need to happen.

Chadman believes the Steelers could have overcome the injuries, could have overcome predictable play calling, could have overcome age, could have overcome pretty much anything really...

So long as the FO had not been Hell-bent on shooting Arians against Tomlin's will.

There are some worrying signs for the TEAM- older guys are slipping, younger guys are not developing fast enough... but if they had played focussed football, like they have pretty much most of Tomlin's reign, Chadman suspects that this was a 10 or 11 win Steelers team.

Just to be sure- this is not Chadman debating if Arians is a greater OC to Haley.... both have merits... it's about team chemistry. It was messed with, by the suits- and that's a problem.

No way can all the fault be laid at the feet of getting rid of BA. That is FAR too simplistic to be accurate. How about the spoiled brat, selfish, self centered, diva QB who chose to undermine the new OC at every turn? He isn't to blame at all, right? How about an undisciplined coach who screwed up on game day with moron decisions costing us games? How about an aloof #1 WR who didn't even bother to give an effort on the field? How about a DC who had CBs play off 10 yards when the opponent needed 8 yards for a 1st down? How about a team, who, in general, chose to quibble and not get along, destroying team chemistry?

Crash
01-10-2013, 04:30 PM
How about the spoiled brat, selfish, self centered, diva QB who chose to undermine the new OC at every turn?

When?

I'm telling you guys. The issue isn't Ben/Haley. IMO it's Ben/Art

Chadman
01-10-2013, 05:52 PM
"I don't think I've ever seen Chadman so far off in his analysis as he is in this post."

Really? Chadman has been WAY more inacurate in the past! This is just a drop in an ever expanding ocean of inaccuracy! :)

"First wrong point ... Rooney NEVER said we needed to run the ball more. He said we need to run the ball more EFFECTIVELY. Did we do that? Not over the course of the season but if you look at games 7, 8, and 9 you will see we were on track."

You are right- it wasn't that the Steelers should run more, but more effectively. There was something about placing an emphasis on the running game in there too, somewhere. But to say the Steelers were 'on track' through games 7,8 & 9, while completely bypassing games 1-6, and then games 10-17 is like saying that the Steelers Defense were on track with improving turnovers this season, as game 17 proves...

Thing is- Chadman wasn't overly unhappy with the running game. What it wasn't, however, is an improvement on the running game implemented by the guy they fired... because his running game was no good.

"Again you missed the point. Rooney said we were on track through game 9. Through the first 9 games in 2011 Ben was sacked 26 times. Through the first 9 games in 2012 Ben was sacked 17 times and almost a third of those sacks came in the first game. I would say knocking your average down by 1 sack a game is a significant improvement."

Ok- Chadman will give you that. For 9 games, there was some improvement. For what it's worth, however, regardless of who the OC is, and his gameplan- if you invest in 2 1st round OL, and 2 2nd round OL- there's going to be improvement on that OL, at some point. Here's betting that over the course of the next 3-4 years we see Ben's sack numbers drop even more. Regardless of who calls the plays.

"So now you don't want the team to make coaching changes because it will cause them to lose "focus"? :wft So you don't want the owner to try and improve an offense that is an inconsistent mess and would never win anything without its star QB. That doesn't make any sense. You want your offense to be solely dependent on one person so if that person has a bad day you are almost guaranteed a loss. It's a good thing the 49ers of the 80s didn't think that way. If Montana had a bad day then Craig, Rice, Taylor, or Brent Jones would take over."

Chadman thinks you missed the point a bit- making coaching changes is fine. Sacking Arians is fine. Hiring Haley is fine.

But let the HC make those decisions, not the owner. The owner hires the HC, the HC picks his staff. Pretty sure we all agree that Tomlin wasn't about to fire Arians- that was Rooney's call. When you take that control off the guy you pay to make that decision- how does that effect focus & morale?

"As far as the receivers contract I don't see a problem. They tried to sign Wallace and when he turned down their final offer they moved on to whom they considered their next highest priority ... Antonio Brown. I think Wallace was going to be a distraction whether they signed Brown or not. He, or his agent, think he is worth more than the Steelers do. Do you want them to just back up the Brinks truck to Wallace's house and pay him whatever he wants so he doesn't lose focus? I don't think that is a very smart plan."

It's entirely possible Chadman started to rant at this point. Still- signing a guy who was going to be a RFA to a $42m contract extension when the team is supposedly trying to resign a guy that they termed as a 'priority', and in doing so, drying up the available cap space for Wallace's contract... is likely to put someone's nose out of joint.

"I agree that Rooney didn't handle the Arians situation correctly. They should have just fired him instead of trying to be nice and say he retired. That's what happens when you try and be nice ... it comes back to bite you in the azz. Other than that I think you are just tilting at windmills."

Knew we'd agree on something.... even though Chadman disagrees with you that ROONEY should have fired Arians... that should have been TOMLIN's call.

Crash
01-10-2013, 05:56 PM
Haley's problem with the run game is his constant rotating.

Injuries forced him not too in New York, Washington, and in Cincy.

But once they all got healthy again? He couldn't leave well enough alone.

Pick one. Stick with him.

Chadman
01-10-2013, 06:03 PM
"No way can all the fault be laid at the feet of getting rid of BA. That is FAR too simplistic to be accurate."- agreed, it wasn't 'just' that, but the impact of the owner firing a guy that the HC didn't want to fire started a chain reaction.

"How about the spoiled brat, selfish, self centered, diva QB who chose to undermine the new OC at every turn? He isn't to blame at all, right?"- Of course that's a factor. Care to explain why people think Ben acted this way? What was the catalyst to Ben not being happy?


"How about an undisciplined coach who screwed up on game day with moron decisions costing us games?"- the same undisciplined HC that won games last season, and the seasons before? Steelers have overcome his 'undisciplined coaching' & 'moron decisions' in the past. Tomlin didn't cost this team any more wins than any other year.


"How about an aloof #1 WR who didn't even bother to give an effort on the field?"- the same aloof #1 WR that lead in yards & TD's? How about the highly motivated & awesome, and well paid #2 that didn't emulate the previous season's work, and lost the Dallas game all on his lonesome? Why was Wallace 'aloof' & 'not giving effort' this season? What was the reason for that?


"How about a DC who had CBs play off 10 yards when the opponent needed 8 yards for a 1st down?"- the same DC that has coached the same way, and won how many SB's now? The Steelers have 'overcome' LeBeau's failings in the past too, so what was different this year?


"How about a team, who, in general, chose to quibble and not get along, destroying team chemistry?"- why? Why did they quibble & not get along? Where does the problem stem from?

Who messed with the team chemistry?

lloydroid
01-10-2013, 06:45 PM
"No way can all the fault be laid at the feet of getting rid of BA. That is FAR too simplistic to be accurate."- agreed, it wasn't 'just' that, but the impact of the owner firing a guy that the HC didn't want to fire started a chain reaction.

OK, I can buy that as a possibility.


"How about the spoiled brat, selfish, self centered, diva QB who chose to undermine the new OC at every turn? He isn't to blame at all, right?"- Of course that's a factor. Care to explain why people think Ben acted this way? What was the catalyst to Ben not being happy?

Yes, I will take a crack at it. Ben is fairly lazy and sloppy. He likes just wining it. It's his personality and he's been successful with this mode, so he finds no reason to change it. Under BA, he got his way mostly: playing back yard football, moving around and whipping it deep. And, with two SB wins, he could argue that the mode wasn't broke so why fix it? I'm not totally buying it but the point can be argued. However, success in the past doesn't ensure that no changes should be made. For instance, the Steelers first few Super Bowl wins were mostly built on a rushing game and D. In the later two, they threw deep much more. Once could argue since the heavy rush play calling produced two rings, that nothing should be changed but we all know the 2 later rings were won with far more passing down field. So, I believe Ben was ticked off that a mode that was winning had forced change brought on upon it with the firing of BA. But, he is the QB; he isn't the coach, the OC or the owner. Should he be so prickly or should he respect his role and do what he is told?



"How about an undisciplined coach who screwed up on game day with moron decisions costing us games?"- the same undisciplined HC that won games last season, and the seasons before? Steelers have overcome his 'undisciplined coaching' & 'moron decisions' in the past. Tomlin didn't cost this team any more wins than any other year.

A couple things here. 1.) The team had more players acting as iron clad leaders prior to this year. A HC can get away with not doing so much discipline with leaders on the roster - players like Farrior, Ward, Aaron Smith. Those are giant leadership roles to fill. All of a sudden, Tomlin lacked that leadership, so a huge hole opened up that was once covered by those guys. With players like that, the team was self-policed. I don't think Tomlin realized what a gaping hole losing those guys would produce. And, worse yet, players who filled in their spots are pretty much non-leaders; players like Wallace, who has shown to be an immature punk when it comes down to it. Imagine the difference between a leader like Ward vs. a player like Wallace? 2.) Tomlin, through success, might have taken it easier, feeling he was "already there." This is just human nature. When you first take on a new job (and a new position, one that you have never filled before) you are highly motivated to not fail. But once you are perceived as successful, you might mellow a bit and not quite have the same due diligence that you once had. Not everyone falls into this trap, but certainly it's not uncommon at all. I believe Tomlin showed an increase is sloppiness and lacking of discipline from this human nature trait.



"How about an aloof #1 WR who didn't even bother to give an effort on the field?"- the same aloof #1 WR that lead in yards & TD's? How about the highly motivated & awesome, and well paid #2 that didn't emulate the previous season's work, and lost the Dallas game all on his lonesome? Why was Wallace 'aloof' & 'not giving effort' this season? What was the reason for that?

How does point A negate point B? In other words, if Brown also reduced his production what does that have to do with Wallace being obvious in his lacking of effort? I don't care if he was still the leader in yards and TDs, as we all know, the team's over all performance was not satisfactory. In other words, if you are the best-looking turd in a lot, you are still a turd, nonetheless. I don't care if MW was the leading producer when he still dropped endless balls, showed no hustle, acted like a baby, etc. Think I am wrong? Well, I heard 10s of thousands Steeler fans agree with me at the Cinci game where they booed every time he touched the ball.



"How about a DC who had CBs play off 10 yards when the opponent needed 8 yards for a 1st down?"- the same DC that has coached the same way, and won how many SB's now? The Steelers have 'overcome' LeBeau's failings in the past too, so what was different this year?

Time change. If you don't, you will fail. What if I had the fastest car in 1930? Should I keep racing that same car since it won races in the 1930s or should I advance with the times? How is this any different?



"How about a team, who, in general, chose to quibble and not get along, destroying team chemistry?"- why? Why did they quibble & not get along? Where does the problem stem from?

Who messed with the team chemistry?

I chalk it up to loss of leadership players combined with a coach who didn't know how to handle it. Do you know why they brought back 3 former Steelers a few years ago, including Foote and Randel El? Because they knew they suffered from a leadership void. Now, compare that void to the one experienced after losing Ward, Smith and Farrior. That is a massive chasm and Tomlin simply wasn't able to manage it, as, to be fair, I don't know that many coaches could. Oh, and one more point: Ben is no Tom Brady. Brady could single handily keep a team in line as far as being disciplined, especially combined with Belichick. Ben presence doesn't have that sort of avoirdupois; he is "shoot from the hip" guy all day long, and only gets serious in his on-mic, pre-game, sideline speeches. I don't think the players buy into it since his actions speak louder than his words.

Crash
01-10-2013, 06:49 PM
Ben is no Tom Brady. Brady could single handily keep a team in line as far as being disciplined, especially combined with Belichick.

Yeah he really stopped Randy Moss from quitting on him didn't he?

Spare me.

supersteeler
01-10-2013, 06:53 PM
As for the run game, I agree we should pick one back to carry the load as many steeler fans suggested. Even Max Starks said the same thing, but we know that one back can't be Dwyer with him waiving to come out after two runs.