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Crash
01-09-2013, 03:57 PM
Now, we tried it Art II's way and what happened? 8-8.


Now maybe the lawyer will know his place and leave the football decisions to those who are paid to do it.


Todd Haley's play-calling sucks. He makes Bruce Arians who had issues with tipping plays based on formation look like Einstein. From his micro-management of the run game to his insistence on giving no hopers like David Paulson and Will Johnson snaps it was obvious from day one that this was going to be a failure.


The 3rd down Ben offense was doomed from the start. All it did was set him up to get crunched. And that's what happened. Spare me the OL injuries. Ben was Housini on 3rd down long before the injuries hit. Not to mention the fact that the run game sucked because every freaking run was between the tackles. Also, how many times are we going to line up a RB 8 1/2 yards behind the LOS on 2nd and 3rd and 1 only to see it fail before something changes?


Blaming Ben for the Dallas and Cincy games is the easy way out. Facts are it should have never been that close. Simply put, we don't attack teams anymore. We are so obsessed with resting and preserving the defense's reputation (more on that in a bit) that we sacrifice our offense at the expense of points to do it.


Three examples right off the top:


Antonio Brown's return to the Dallas 50.


Next three plays? Run run pass.


Cortez Allen's pick against the Bengals FINALLY gives the offense a short field.


Next three plays? Run run pass.


First down at the Steelers 46 in a tie game at Cincy.


Next 5 plays?


WR screen (BA got flogged for those btw), run run run Ben scramble, miss a 53 yard FG.


Now be honest with yourselves, if that's Arians calling the same plays what's said? He'd get destroyed and you all know it.


So don't let the local golf pro off the hook.


What's funny though is I don't think Ben and Haley have issues. Do they disagree on playcalling? Probably. Philosophy on offense? Perhaps.


But I think Ben also knows that Haley is only doing what ownership wants. I think Ben realizes that even a puppet has to eat and pay his bills.


If Ben has any beef's, it's with Art. After Art blamed Ben and Arians for 2012, then he sits there and sees Arians in the playoffs you don't think Ben's pissed? Going to be real interesting what Art decides to do if Arians gets a head coaching gig in the NFC (I don't think Art's that dumb to trade him in his own conference).


The status quo can't continue, one of three things must occur.


1. Tomlin is allowed to fire Haley, and hire his own OC. If not, I could see a proud man like Tomlin walking.

2. Art needs to step aside, and allow Haley to run the offense as HE (and not Art II) sees fit.


2. If Haley stays and this is the offense Art AND Haley wants? Then Ben has to go. You can't pay a guy $15 million a year to be Trent Dilfer. To dink and dunk your way on 3rd down all year, and then when that doesn't work all of the sudden in the last two minutes of a game yell "Ben, save us!". It's not fair to Ben, nor is it fair to the rest of the offense, to be handcuffed by the desires of ownership to relive the past. You can't play this way with 6th round picks and un-drafted free agents.

If this is what Art wants them to be? Trade Ben for two #1's, load up on running backs and more defense (Because paying that side of the ball double than what the offense gets to blow 4th quarter leads all year didn't work) and quit the square peg into round holes BS that's going on now.

It's 2013 people, if Art II doesn't realize it? Expect more of the same.

feltdizz
01-09-2013, 04:12 PM
I agree with a lot of this... not on trading Ben or Tomlin walking but I think the 3rd down conversion was all Ben and not really a testimony of how good the O was due to play calling. Also need to stop running up the gut. We have Rainey and he ran off tackle how many times?

...and those bubble screens, hated them before and hate them now. This offense doesn't attack and that's the one area where BA was good... he loved to go vertical and with small, fast WR's that makes sense.

aggiebones
01-09-2013, 04:22 PM
"Spare me the OL injuries."

NO

it was a MAJOR reason for our problems. Not saying Haley was any good or not, but the root problem was OL injuries that led to Big Ben injury which led to 8-8.
We went about fixing the OL in the offseason, but at 6-3 we just couldn't keep any traction after injuries began mounting.
Blame what you want, but only after OL damage is acknowledged as the root problem with the O.
Personally I didn't like the O nor Haley, but it would have worked well enough and we could have done some post-season damage had the OL not been a total mess ruining Ben's year with a nasty rb injury.

Crash
01-09-2013, 04:24 PM
This is John Elway vs. Dan Reeves all over again.

But the guy Ben has issues with isn't the head coach, he's the owner.

Wonder if Ben's been to Philly recently?

Crash
01-09-2013, 04:25 PM
"Spare me the OL injuries."

NO

it was a MAJOR reason for our problems. Not saying Haley was any good or not, but the root problem was OL injuries that led to Big Ben injury which led to 8-8.
We went about fixing the OL in the offseason, but at 6-3 we just couldn't keep any traction after injuries began mounting.
Blame what you want, but only after OL damage is acknowledged as the root problem with the O.

Arians dealt with injuries to his OL also. His running game wasn't nearly this awful.

The offense's problem is predictable play-calling.

Shawn
01-09-2013, 05:07 PM
Nice...Crash is back :)

Chadman
01-09-2013, 07:07 PM
Chadman agrees with this straw being stirred.

pittpete
01-09-2013, 08:18 PM
This post is almost as dopey as moving Woodley to the right side:p

BradshawsHairdresser
01-10-2013, 12:29 AM
I'm not going to defend Haley's play-calling the last 3 or 4 games...it wasn't very good. But giving Haley all the blame for the 8-8 season? Seems to me there are plenty of others to share it with him.

You might get your wish, anyway...I wouldn't be surprised to see Haley coaching the Redbirds next season. Maybe Kirby Wilson will run an offense more to your liking.

SS Laser
01-10-2013, 12:37 AM
Just get a OC that will let Ben call all the plays then Crash will be happy.

Djfan
01-10-2013, 01:26 AM
Crash's happiness is what the Steelers should focus on. That way this board will be normal again.

Crash
01-10-2013, 01:56 AM
Just get a OC that will let Ben call all the plays then Crash will be happy.

No, we need an OC that's not handcuffed by ownership. Be it Haley or someone else.

We have two big games in Dallas, and then against Cincy, and Plaxico Burress is inactive, and Leonard Pope who sees what? One snap a game isn't? To do what? Play on the field goal team?

This ownership needs to realize the only way this team has a chance to win anything, is top build their offense around Ben and the wides.

Sorry, but this plodding, slow, snail paced offense is 100% crap. And fails to put this offense, and this team, in position to win.

hawaiiansteel
01-10-2013, 02:56 AM
Art II is nothing but a two-bit lawyer who is only in his current position because of who his Daddy is and who needs to stop his meddling and wants the Steelers to return to 70s football even if it means we never win another Super Bowl.

did I miss anything?

Crash
01-10-2013, 03:16 AM
No that about sums it up.

Here's another gem from F. Lee Rooney: "Our defensive backs have to be more ball aware"

Well guess what genius? Tell that to the DC and his ridiculous "Tackle the catch" mentality.

It's only been going on, what? 9 years since he came back?

ikestops85
01-10-2013, 11:14 AM
No that about sums it up.

Here's another gem from F. Lee Rooney: "Our defensive backs have to be more ball aware"

Well guess what genius? Tell that to the DC and his ridiculous "Tackle the catch" mentality.

It's only been going on, what? 9 years since he came back?

Exactly. I don't know how the ownership puts up with DL who constantly has one of the league's worst defenses. Oh, wait ... :rolleyes:

Crash
01-10-2013, 12:32 PM
Exactly. I don't know how the ownership puts up with DL who constantly has one of the league's worst defenses. Oh, wait ... :rolleyes:

I think this year has proven their ranking to be the farce it is.

Before I was wrongfully banned here I gave you people two big things to watch for, things that Arians couldn't be blamed for but always was:

1. Give back points

How many times did the Steelers defense give up a score after we scored ourselves in 2012? It's why we don't blow teams out, it's why we blow 4th quarter leads.

2. Lack of turnovers forced.

What was their rank this year?

What was their rank in 2011?

Then compare that to 2010, and what their scoring rank in 2010 (with Ben sitting 4 games) was?

You don't win games with yards.

I wish the LeBeau defenders would realize that already.

Slapstick
01-10-2013, 12:37 PM
The Steelers defense was 6th in scoring defense this year...

Giving up points isn't the problem...neither is the defense...

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
01-10-2013, 12:42 PM
No, we need an OC that's not handcuffed by ownership. Be it Haley or someone else.

We have two big games in Dallas, and then against Cincy, and Plaxico Burress is inactive, and Leonard Pope who sees what? One snap a game isn't? To do what? Play on the field goal team?

This ownership needs to realize the only way this team has a chance to win anything, is top build their offense around Ben and the wides.

Sorry, but this plodding, slow, snail paced offense is 100% crap. And fails to put this offense, and this team, in position to win.

Holy $hit...I agree with Crash!

Do I have to sign anything?
:p

Crash
01-10-2013, 12:46 PM
The Steelers defense was 6th in scoring defense this year

And where were they in time of possession? You can't give up points when the offense holds the ball Slap.

Case in point, the Eagles game: The Eagles down 13-7 take over with 14:51 left in the game after Suisham's FG.

They hold the ball for over EIGHT MINUTES, and score a TD to take the lead (So that's blowing a 4th quarter lead, AND give back points).

The Steelers then take over with 6:33 left, chew up the remainder of the clock, kick a FG, and win.

Now, someone like you who doesn't realize context of games would say, "they only scored three points in the 4th quarter, and the defense only gave up 7".

While ignoring the fact, that the only 7 points they gave up in that quarter, was the only time they were on the field during it.

This defense is overrated. I would gladly take a 15th "ranked" defense if they forced more turnovers.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
01-10-2013, 12:51 PM
The Steelers defense was 6th in scoring defense this year...

Giving up points isn't the problem...neither is the defense...
I lean heavily the same way Slap feels. I definately want to see more pressure on the QB but nobody was lighting us up when our 11 were on the field. Pressure-Sacks lead to more turnovers.

One thing in here nobody mentioned so I will. These guys aren't just football players. The have a home life. BB getting married and having a kid had an impact on him. Throw in a new OC on top of that and stuff is falling off the plate. I expect BB to turn it all around next year with his feet under him. You can argue it didn't but there is no doubt in my mind that BB's guage was above the "full" mark in 2012.

ikestops85
01-10-2013, 12:53 PM
And where were they in time of possession? You can't give up points when the offense holds the ball Slap.

Case in point, the Eagles game: The Eagles down 13-7 take over with 14:51 left in the game after Suisham's FG.

They hold the ball for over EIGHT MINUTES, and score a TD to take the lead (So that's blowing a 4th quarter lead, AND give back points).

The Steelers then take over with 6:33 left, chew up the remainder of the clock, kick a FG, and win.

Now, someone like you who doesn't realize context of games would say, "they only scored three points in the 4th quarter, and the defense only gave up 7".

While ignoring the fact, that the only 7 points they gave up in that quarter, was the only time they were on the field during it.

This defense is overrated. I would gladly take a 15th "ranked" defense if they forced more turnovers.

Sounds good to me. The Rams are the 15th "ranked" defense and they forced more turnovers. Go be a fan of theirs.

Crash
01-10-2013, 12:56 PM
OMG, what exactly did Ben's child have to do with the defense blowing three 4th quarter leads (Three losses) in the seasons first 5 games?

Now I've heard it all. Ben's unborn child is the reason our defense can't hold leads.

Last year it was Arians.

Will it EVER be LeBeau?

Crash
01-10-2013, 12:58 PM
Sounds good to me. The Rams are the 15th "ranked" defense and they forced more turnovers. Go be a fan of theirs.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................

You keep ignoring the facts.

I'll stick to them.

Six blown 4th quarter leads in 2012, four in losses.

That was supposed to be all Bruce Arians' fault.

But Arians is no longer here.

When does LeBeau's problems, become LeBeau's responsibility?

Slapstick
01-10-2013, 01:13 PM
If only Crash weren't still on ignore...

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
01-10-2013, 01:28 PM
OMG, what exactly did Ben's child have to do with the defense blowing three 4th quarter leads (Three losses) in the seasons first 5 games?

Now I've heard it all. Ben's unborn child is the reason our defense can't hold leads.

Last year it was Arians.


Will it EVER be LeBeau?

Who said that? You got slow while you were away. I said I was happy with the defense but would like more pressure-sacks. That would generate more TOs. I put it on the offense and BB. Not converting 3rd downs and redzone scoring. I can't believe in those must win games DL keyed BB helmet and told him Brandon Carr and Reggie Nelson were open. You are right...It is DL fault.

The defense down the stretch gave the Steelers every opportunity to win games.

Crash
01-10-2013, 01:47 PM
Did they? Philip Rivers has sucked for 3 years.

Not against LeBeau.

Tony Romo's throws INTs in warm ups.

Not against LeBeau.

The problem LeBeau has is nothing changes in crunch time.

KC has a 4th and 15 down three points. What do we do?

Rush 4, drop 7 in zone, complete, kick a game tying field goal.

Cincy has the ball on our 46 needing a FG to go to the playoffs. What do we do?

Rush 3, drop 8 in zone (AND give Green a free release), complete, kick a GW field goal.

The same problems that used to be Bruce Arians' fault are still going on.

LeBeau is running out of scapegoats. Sooner or later is HAS to come back to him.

ikestops85
01-10-2013, 01:49 PM
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................

You keep ignoring the facts.

I'll stick to them.

Six blown 4th quarter leads in 2012, four in losses.

That was supposed to be all Bruce Arians' fault.

But Arians is no longer here.

When does LeBeau's problems, become LeBeau's responsibility?

Even Ben realizes the offense didn't hold up it's end. The defense certainly wasn't perfect. In fact it was downright bad at the beginning of the year. But then the old man made some adjustments and it played well for the rest of the year. I agree with you that yardage shouldn't be the benchmark of a defense but points should be. We did well in that area ... again.

I really don't blame the offense or the defense for our less than stellar year. I do think we were done in by the lack of cohesion of the offensive line due to injuries. I was excited by the prospect of our starting line at the beginning of the year and that projected starting line never played one game together. I really believe that was our downfall.

Sugar
01-10-2013, 01:52 PM
This defense is overrated. I would gladly take a 15th "ranked" defense if they forced more turnovers.

I wouldn't. In my philosophy, the D's first job is to keep the other team from scoring. Second, is to keep the team in good field position. Third, get turnovers but only as a happy byproduct of doing the first two.

Crash
01-10-2013, 01:53 PM
Who said that? You got slow while you were away. I said I was happy with the defense but would like more pressure-sacks. That would generate more TOs. I put it on the offense and BB. Not converting 3rd downs and redzone scoring. I can't believe in those must win games DL keyed BB helmet and told him Brandon Carr and Reggie Nelson were open. You are right...It is DL fault.

The defense down the stretch gave the Steelers every opportunity to win games.

Um, Ben was the BEST 3rd down passer in football prior to his injury.

Defense still blew four 4th quarter leads in 9 games.

Now what?

You are right, the Dallas game was a "must win".

And Tony freaking Romo shredded our "#1 ranked" defense.

Crash
01-10-2013, 01:55 PM
I wouldn't. In my philosophy, the D's first job is to keep the other team from scoring

So when the offense holds the ball and scores after the defense gives up a lead, the defense gets credit for not giving up more points?

The Steelers were 20th in starting field position in 2012, last season they were 30th.

The Steelers were among the worst teams in the league in forcing turnovers.

Care to re-think that?

Crash
01-10-2013, 01:58 PM
Even Ben realizes the offense didn't hold up it's end

Ben always takes the blame. That's what leaders do.

While a defense that can't make a big play for most of the year, has blown the second most 4th quarter leads since 2007 brags about their "rank".

BradshawsHairdresser
01-10-2013, 02:24 PM
Got to agree with Crash that the defense is overrated. Yards allowed isn't the most important measure. Making stops and forcing turnovers in critical situations is far more important. We need to get better at that. Some of that may be on LeBeau, but we have too many high-priced players who are underachieving on D (ie., Woodley, Hampton, Polamalu, Harrison). Harrison and Polamalu appeared to be rounding into form by season's end, but they need to take drastic pay cuts. We need to be able to invest more money on the offensive side of the team. If Wallace walks, we need to pony up to find Ben a fast target, and maybe a veteran tight end.

ikestops85
01-10-2013, 02:25 PM
Ben always takes the blame. That's what leaders do.

While a defense that can't make a big play for most of the year, has blown the second most 4th quarter leads since 2007 brags about their "rank".

Name me 1 defensive player who "bragged" about their rank. I'll wait. I'll also wait while you provide me with a link on your stats about blown 4th quarter leads.

Slapstick
01-10-2013, 02:32 PM
Got to agree with Crash that the defense is overrated. Yards allowed isn't the most important measure. Making stops and forcing turnovers in critical situations is far more important. We need to get better at that. Some of that may be on LeBeau, but we have too many high-priced players who are underachieving on D (ie., Woodley, Hampton, Polamalu, Harrison). Harrison and Polamalu appeared to be rounding into form by season's end, but they need to take drastic pay cuts. We need to be able to invest more money on the offensive side of the team. If Wallace walks, we need to pony up to find Ben a fast target, and maybe a veteran tight end.

I agree. Yards isn't the most important measure. Points are.

How many points did the defense give up?

How many points did the offense score?

Our defense did not create turnovers. Okay. I won't argue.

Our offense sure as hell did, though...especially at critical moments in the game...

Our special teams did not help either...the Steelers lost two games at home when the defense did not allow a TD...think about it...

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
01-10-2013, 02:38 PM
Did they? Philip Rivers has sucked for 3 years.

Not against LeBeau.

Tony Romo's throws INTs in warm ups.

Not against LeBeau.

The problem LeBeau has is nothing changes in crunch time.

KC has a 4th and 15 down three points. What do we do?

Rush 4, drop 7 in zone, complete, kick a game tying field goal.

Cincy has the ball on our 46 needing a FG to go to the playoffs. What do we do?

Rush 3, drop 8 in zone (AND give Green a free release), complete, kick a GW field goal.

The same problems that used to be Bruce Arians' fault are still going on.

LeBeau is running out of scapegoats. Sooner or later is HAS to come back to him.


You are seeing what you want to see because you hate DL. I have been critical of DL over the last two years too but this season you can't sway the blame on him.

And yes...The D put them in position sown the stretch.

BB goes down early in the 2nd half where he was 9/18 for 84 & 1 TD. The Steelers are hanging on for their life against KC when BB goes down. You are critical of DL pass defesne...Cassel was 11/26 for 154 no TDs & 1 INT. They won the game!

Against SD, BB threw a pass that was deemed a fumble that was returned for 6. Sitting on 27-3 at that point. Is that 3 on the defense? BB also threw a 4th QTR INT...34-10 at that point. I guess you don't Remember that? Game ends up 34-24 on late TDs when the Chargers are already celebrating. Final score doesn't scream offense unless you watched the game.

Against Dallas, BB sacked 4 times and throws that pick in OT. BB was having a pretty good game up until that point. That is the game where ONE thing dictated the outcome. BB had the ball in his hands to go for the win. How else you see that?

Against the Bengals, BB throws 2 picks & was sacked 4 times. BB threw a pick 6 at his own 17! Funny you mentioned the set up for the game winning FG. You left out the part where BB threw the INT in his own end that set it up.

Really Crash... The stuff you SPEW indicates you don't watch any of the games & know less.

feltdizz
01-10-2013, 02:52 PM
This year the offense was the reason we lost most games. Not sure how anyone can dispute it...

Crash
01-10-2013, 03:29 PM
Name me 1 defensive player who "bragged" about their rank

James Harrison on Facebook this week is the latest.


I'll also wait while you provide me with a link on your stats about blown 4th quarter leads.





http://m.nbcsports.com/content/kacsmar-dont-believe-hype-steelers-d

Crash
01-10-2013, 03:40 PM
BB goes down early in the 2nd half where he was 9/18 for 84 & 1 TD.

And what happened in that game? Because Ben and the offense didn't have the nerve to take the lead on their first drive of the game? The Chiefs on their second drive of the night took a 7-0 lead. Which was their first lead in regulation THE ENTIRE SEASON.

I guess the defense was "tired".


The Steelers are hanging on for their life against KC when BB goes down.

Um, no, the offense was finally starting to move the ball. They scored 10 points on their final two possessions of the first half, and then Ben got hurt.


Against SD, BB threw a pass that was deemed a fumble that was returned for 6.

And they were down 20-3 at that point. Why? Partially because the defense, after Roethlisberger and the offense kicked a FG at the end of the half in hurry up, had to sit there for almost TEN MINUTES before they saw the ball ONCE in the second half.

I guess the defense got winded at halftime sitting in the locker room.

The Dallas game? Funny how Romo killing them doesn't count.

I guess you slept through the Raiders game when Carson Palmer killed them.

The Tennessee game? That doesn't count either?

The Bengals game we didn't use Ben all day minus the end of the halves. In the first half it worked. In the second half it didn't.

You guys need to realize the season is 16 games. Blowing 4th quarter leads isn't the offense's fault.

Crash
01-10-2013, 03:47 PM
Our offense sure as hell did, though...especially at critical moments in the game...

How many of those turnovers were in the three games Ben didn't play?

Again, context. Not stat sheets.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
01-11-2013, 02:09 PM
Crash’s comments that make sense:






You just make things too easy for me Crash. I don't know if I should laugh at it or Thank you. Time for you to walk the walk.

I have been very critical of DL over the last two seasons...Look it up. I wanted him gone before 2012. Now I am one who wants him here in 2013 because of what is going to take place in 2013. But my "hate" for someone doesn't cloud my judgment like you. I call it how it is. DL & this defense was not without disappointments but the SEASON does not fall on them.

You are 100% correct. It is a 16 game season. What YOU need to realize...It is also not about how you start but how you finish. How you are playing going into the playoffs. Nothing is awarded to you on what you accomplished in the beginning of the year. The defense was playing playoff football down the stretch. No other way you could slice, spin, or spew it. The Steeler offense did not rise to the challenge in the must win games. BB tunovers, lack of converting 3rd downs, and kicking FGs in the redzone. The ball in BB hands in must win games...Not coming from behind...TIED. Turnovers. In no way is that on the D.

Your knife of giving up 4th Qtr leads has two sides don't forget. How about the offense being ineffective and letting teams they should easily beat hang around until that 4th Qtr. Does that ring a bell?

So I will do your homework for you. Again, you seem to look at stats or summaries and didn’t watch the games. I will have to do it in several posts I guess.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
01-11-2013, 02:12 PM
Broncos game:
Steelers 2 TDs & 2 FGs. Losing 13-14 starting 4th. To start, Steelers score a TD in 2 plays to take lead. In the 4th, Steelers scored 6 points to Broncos 17. BB has the ball in his hands late in the 4th down 19-25. BB throws a pick 6. Did I mention the Steelers 2 drives after they take the lead the go 3 & out and 2 plays and that pick 6? The defense forced a TO too. Does the defense have any faults? Absolutely..They gave up that 71 yarder. But they kept them in the game. It was a one possession game going into the 4th. BB versus Manning. BB gave it away.

Raiders game:
Steelers 4 TDs & 1 FG. Winning 31-21 to start the 4th. To start, Raiders score a TD after 9 plays to go 28 yards 31-28. In the 4th, Steelers score 0 points to Raiders 13. After the Raiders pull within 3, The Steelers go 3 plays & fumble. Defense holds them to FG 31-31. Then Steelers go 6 plays for 4 yards & punt. Raiders get in FG range & kick game winner as time expires. So Brown & Dwyer fumble in their territory & Clark gets an INT during the game. AB also had a punt return TD called back. The Steelers score NO points in the 4th QTR & turn it over twice and it is all on the defense? Interesting.

Titans game:
Steelers 2 TDs & 3 FGs. Losing 13-16 to start 4th. To start, Steelers go 4 plays 23 yards to score a TD to take lead 20-16. 6 plays into Titans drive, Timmons gets an INT. Steelers go 4 plays & get FG 23-16. Next possession, Titans tie it up at 23 all. Steelers go 9 plays for 53 yards and miss a 54 yard field goal. Titans get the ball at their 45 and 4 plays later Titans kick the game winning FG as time expires. Where do you want to point a finger on this one…You tell me? BB threw an INT near the end of the 1st half going in for a TD at the Titans 12.

Chiefs game:
Now this was a win & where BB got hurt but I’m going to show you something because you think the offense was getting it going and DL & his defense wasn’t doing their jobs. They were tied 13 all going into the 4th.

KC – 5 plays 11 yards & punt
PIT – 4 plays 23 yards & punt
KC – 4 plays 70 yards TD 7-0
PIT – 3 plays 6 yards & punt
KC – 7 plays 28 yards & punt
PIT – 3 plays 24 yards & FUMBLE at PIT 9
KC – 4 plays 6 yards & FG 10-0
KICK OFF OUT OF BOUNDS
PIT – 11 plays 37 yards & FG 10-3
KC – 3 plays 4 yards & punt to 50
PIT – 7 plays 50 yards & TD 10-10
KC – 7 plays 28 yards & punt
PIT – 1 play 3 yards & end of half

I look at that first half & I see a defense doing its JOB. I see an offense that started slow with 3 wasted series & turned it over inside their own 9 yard line. Steelers were lucky to only be down 10-0 at that point. Then because of a kick off out of bounds they get great field possession down 10 and only get a FG? Then the D comes up big again and gets off the field giving them the ball back at the 50. They tie it up. Then the D steps up again before the end of the half and forces another punt. So where in any of that is the Defense slacking & the offense shining? It isn’t. BB was still on the field. The Steelers get the ball to start 2nd half & they go 3 & out with BB getting hurt. KC’s 2nd half started out with 13 play 55 yard drive that ended with a missed FG. The Steelers D then held them to 4 three & out series where they gained 15 yards. Their final drive in regulation was a 9 play 53 yard drive where they got the FG to tie. How did the Steelers do without BB? 4 punts, 1 turnover on downs at their own 49, & one drive for a FG. To complete a game that clearly was all on the defense, Timmons picks off the 2nd play of OT at KC’s 28 & takes it to the 5 where they immediately kick the FG to win in OT. So where in any part of this game can you point a finger at a the D?

Chargers game:
Steelers 3 TDs & 1 FG. Losing 27-10 to start 4th. To start, Chargers go 7 plays that net 15 yards & punt. BB gets INT on the 2nd play at the Steelers 17. 2 plays later Chargers score a TD 34-10. Game was over long before that. What follows is 2 three & out by the Chargers just trying to end it while the Steelers try and make it look better that it was. Steelers offensive possessions in the first half was 6 punts, a turnover on downs, and a FG drive at the end of the half. The Chargers started 4 of their 7 possessions in the Steelers territory. The Steelers D still held the Chargers to 4 punts, 2 FGs, & 1 TD and only down 13-3 at half. So you want to say the offense couldn’t see the field for 10 minutes because they gave up a TD drive to start the half? Well fire them all. The D was playing on the wrong side of the 50 the whole first half & Crash thinks they should have thrown in a TD or 2 because the offense couldn’t do anything but punt in the first half and that is on the D too. You are a reasonable man or boy…Not sure! So BB throws the fumble return for 6. Ok…Unfortunate. Hard to point a finger at BB & the offense. Down 27-3 at that point and they respond with a TD 27-10. D holds them to a punt. Two plays into that series BB throws that pick at his own 17. What do you want from a defense? Offense is the one responsible to put points on the board. If they are doing nothing but turning it over, punting, and flipping the field for the Chargers O…34-10 is all on them.

Cowboys game:
It isn’t hard to see what happened if you watched the game. Romo this…Romo that…. BB had the ball in his hands to win it…But I will do it for you.
Steelers 3 TDs & 1 FG. Tied 10-10 at half & 17-17 to start 4th. To start, Steelers go 5 plays 36 yards & a TD to take lead 24-17. Steelers D holds them to 6 plays that net 4 yards and they punt. AB fumbles the punt in Steelers territory and the Cowboys go in for a TD to tie 24-24. Steelers next possession is a punt. BB gets it 2 more times in regulation because the D forces 2 three & outs. Overtime…And you know the rest.

Bengals game:
Again, really? You didn’t see BB throw the INT at the end of regulation in his territory?
Steelers 1 TD & 1 FG. Losing 10-7 at half & Tied 10-10 to start 4th. To start, Bengals run 2 plays & Green fumbles recovered by Clark at Steelers 42. The Steelers O goes backwards 23 yards & punts. Bengals go 4 plays and Dalton is INT by Allen at PIT 23. Steelers go 6 plays for 19 yards & punts. Next two possessions they trade missed FGs. Steelers D forces a three & out on the next possession. BB throws the pick 3 plays later and the Bengals have it at the Steelers 46… And you know the rest. You say they didn’t use BB all day but the End of the halves. Hmmm. He attempted 8 passes in the 3rd & 5 in the 1st with the pick 6. That is almost half his attempts. Steelers 3rd Qtr drives were 2 three & outs and a FG. 2nd Qtr drives were 15 play drive that was a missed FG, a punt, and a TD. 1st Qtr drives were 2 punts and the pick 6. I know…You are all about DL costing the Steelers season. Well in the biggest game of the season…His D forced 6 punts, INT 2 times, forced 1 fumble, turned them over on downs 1 time, missed FG drive, and gave up 2 FGs…And also had in 6 sacks. I will be completely honest….It was what DL did & what he had to work with in the Bengals game that convinced me he needs to be here 1 more year.

You want to blame something for the season Crash? Blame BB’s key INTs & the Turnovers on offense. Blame the lack of running game and the inability to move the chains down the stretch. Blame lack of effort on the offensive side of the ball. Just don’t blame anyone named >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>D!CK!

Crash
01-11-2013, 02:36 PM
You want to blame something for the season Crash? Blame BB’s key INTs & the Turnovers on offense.

No, I'll blame both Ben and the defense.

Yeah, the defense gave up THREE 80 yard TD drives in Denver, and somehow you want to say they "kept them in the game"?

Only in Pittsburgh. Where defensive rankings mean more than quality play.

Like I told you guys in the summer, Arians is gone, who's going to be blamed next when LeBeau's 4th quarter defense remains the same?

Six blown 4th quarter leads (4 in losses).

When does LeBeau start taking the heat for it?

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
01-11-2013, 03:42 PM
No, I'll blame both Ben and the defense.

Yeah, the defense gave up THREE 80 yard TD drives in Denver, and somehow you want to say they "kept them in the game"?

Only in Pittsburgh. Where defensive rankings mean more than quality play.

Really Crash? You want to go back to the first game of the season? No mention of the two INTs BB threw in the must win games?

Ya know what...I will speak your language. You make No mention of the INT in the Denver game that was returned for a TD with over 2 minutes left. It was 25-19 & Steelers had the ball. The Steelers did give up 3 drives....There was a 2 play 80 yard drive that was Thomas's 71 yard TD. Did you look at a drive comparison between the two teams?

Denver Drives: 2 punts, 1 fumble, 1 FG, and 3 TDs
Steeler Drives: 3 punts, 1 INT(TD), 1 TO on downs, 2 FGs, and 2 TDs

You know what the difference was in the game? Do you really have to be told even though you have the stats and watched the game?

BB was 22/40 245 2/1(For TD) 5 sacks for 36 yards
Manning was 19/26 253 2/0 2 sacks for 13

That is all you need to know. It was QB versus QB and BB didn't get it done. These games are going to happen if you are a contender.

I showed 6 losses above and the Steelers were only winning 1 at the start of the 4th. Tight games are always going to change hands in the 4th. Don't know where you are trying to go with your "blown 4th Qtr leads". That is an elastic stat that is meaningless unless you expand on it. If your statement is going to be the Steelers lost 4th Qtr leads of 2-3 posession margins that would be a concern. How many times can a lead change happen in the 4th if the margin is within a TD or FG? That is ridiculous. Steelers up by one and someone kicks a FG in the 4th and "OMFG they blew a 4th Qtr lead!" SB hangover year that was a concern...Not in 2012. If you are in a 1 posession game in the forth Qtr & you lose the lead it isn't a "blown lead' it is a game. Here's a theory you should chew on....If the offense scores more points OR moves the chains and keeps the ball out of their hands OR doesn't tun the ball over.....they won't be able to take the lead.

DL will take the heat when he deserves if....Just wasn't this year. I took him off high and put him on simmer on the back burner. I will jump back on him without hesitation.

Crash
01-11-2013, 03:49 PM
You know what the difference was in the game?

Yes, the Steelers defense blew ass and the Broncos didn't.

The Steelers defense on THREE DIFFERENT occasions gave up TDs following our own scores.

That's where the game was lost. Can't blame Ben for not saving their ass again, sooner or later the defense has to make a play. The way American football works is you score, but unless the returner fumbles the kick or it's an onside kick? The defense has to go on the field.

They can't be protected on the sideline all day.

Crash
01-11-2013, 03:50 PM
DL will take the heat when he deserves if....Just wasn't this year.

Then you'll never blame him.

Slapstick
01-11-2013, 03:55 PM
Really Crash? You want to go back to the first game of the season? No mention of the two INTs BB threw in the must win games?

Ya know what...I will speak your language. You make No mention of the INT in the Denver game that was returned for a TD with over 2 minutes left. It was 25-19 & Steelers had the ball. The Steelers did give up 3 drives....There was a 2 play 80 yard drive that was Thomas's 71 yard TD. Did you look at a drive comparison between the two teams?

Denver Drives: 2 punts, 1 fumble, 1 FG, and 3 TDs
Steeler Drives: 3 punts, 1 INT(TD), 1 TO on downs, 2 FGs, and 2 TDs

You know what the difference was in the game? Do you really have to be told even though you have the stats and watched the game?

BB was 22/40 245 2/1(For TD) 5 sacks for 36 yards
Manning was 19/26 253 2/0 2 sacks for 13

That is all you need to know. It was QB versus QB and BB didn't get it done. These games are going to happen if you are a contender.

I showed 6 losses above and the Steelers were only winning 1 at the start of the 4th. Tight games are always going to change hands in the 4th. Don't know where you are trying to go with your "blown 4th Qtr leads". That is an elastic stat that is meaningless unless you expand on it. If your statement is going to be the Steelers lost 4th Qtr leads of 2-3 posession margins that would be a concern. How many times can a lead change happen in the 4th if the margin is within a TD or FG? That is ridiculous. Steelers up by one and someone kicks a FG in the 4th and "OMFG they blew a 4th Qtr lead!" SB hangover year that was a concern...Not in 2012. If you are in a 1 posession game in the forth Qtr & you lose the lead it isn't a "blown lead' it is a game. Here's a theory you should chew on....If the offense scores more points OR moves the chains and keeps the ball out of their hands OR doesn't tun the ball over.....they won't be able to take the lead.

DL will take the heat when he deserves if....Just wasn't this year. I took him off high and put him on simmer on the back burner. I will jump back on him without hesitation.

JPN - It's a waste of time and energy...

Crash
01-11-2013, 03:58 PM
JPN - It's a waste of time and energy...

Says the guy who reads box scores.

Just go back to what I said in the summer BEFORE we even played Denver:

fordfixer
01-11-2013, 04:16 PM
Ya know what...I will speak your language.
That's gotta hurt lowering yourself to that level:-)

Crash
01-11-2013, 04:19 PM
Actually it smartens him up.

Just like all you experts who thought I was nuts when I said Pouncey at guard would be a good thing.

Now go watch that Ravens game again. That was probably the best game the OL had all year.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
01-11-2013, 04:23 PM
Yes, the Steelers defense blew ass and the Broncos didn't.

The Steelers defense on THREE DIFFERENT occasions gave up TDs following our own scores.

That's where the game was lost. Can't blame Ben for not saving their ass again, sooner or later the defense has to make a play. The way American football works is you score, but unless the returner fumbles the kick or it's an onside kick? The defense has to go on the field.

[/COLOR]They can't be protected on the sideline all day.


You should look closer.

DEN PUNT
PIT PUNT (Missed Opportunity)
DEN FUMBLE Recovered by PIT at DEN 49
PIT PUNT (Missed Opportunity)
DEN PUNT
PIT FG (How about a TD)
DEN TD
PIT TD
HALF
PIT FG (How about a TD)
DEN TD
PIT TD
DEN TD
PIT PUNT (Missed Opportunity)
DEN FG
PIT INT FOR TD (That's Game!)
PIT T/O ON DOWNS
DEN Kneel on it.

Seems to be the Steelers Offense was the ones who needed to make a play and failed...But BB made a play for the Broncos that day! FGs wasn't going to win the game that day. If your defense gets a TO and gives you the ball 3 times with a goose egg on the scoreboard and you come away with 3 points...It is on offense. If you want to match their TDs with FGs it is on the offense. Last & most importantly...If you want to throw a pick 6 when you are down by 6 with over 2 minutes to go...It is on the BB.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
01-11-2013, 04:27 PM
That's gotta hurt lowering yourself to that level:-)

I did feel a little burn in the loin. Dammit Crash!

Crash
01-11-2013, 04:31 PM
You are right, the offense did fail.

They didn't save the defense again in a big game. But as soon as the defense plays a good game against some scrub the Jimmy Pol music's playing and the IC beer is flowing like Niagra Falls.

That game was only close for one reason, the defense couldn't get of the field after we would score ourselves.

Just like in Oakland.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
01-11-2013, 04:31 PM
Actually it smartens him up.

Just like all you experts who thought I was nuts when I said Pouncey at guard would be a good thing.

Now go watch that Ravens game again. That was probably the best game the OL had all year.

I will forget more than you will ever know when it comes to football and I haven't forgotten anything yet.

Crash
01-11-2013, 04:34 PM
If you want to match their TDs with FGs it is on the offense.

Then how in the flying ..... can you blame the offense for ANYTHING that happened in Oakland?

THREE TIMES, the offense scored TDs.....

THREE TIMES, the defense gave a TD back.....

The offense did exactly what you wanted.

And you STILL give LeBeau a free pass.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
01-11-2013, 05:06 PM
Then how in the flying ..... can you blame the offense for ANYTHING that happened in Oakland?

THREE TIMES, the offense scored TDs.....

THREE TIMES, the defense gave a TD back.....

The offense did exactly what you wanted.

And you STILL give LeBeau a free pass.


[/COLOR]

Are we looking for an instance where you could blame DL? Are we hitting every game with a microscope until we find it?

I guess you didn't read my breakdowns. BB had a great game. The passing offense was productive. The defense gave up that 64 yard run to McFadden early but on the day the Raiders rushed for 119. The Raiders passing game was efficient but only 202 yards. Again, turnovers & mistakes. AB gets a punt return called back on a penalty in the 2nd, Dwyer fumbles at their own 31 in the 2nd, and Antonio Brown fumbles at the Raiders 36 in the 4th. Wouldn't you put the game on those mistakes before anything?

Crash
01-11-2013, 05:09 PM
Are we looking for an instance where you could blame DL? Are we hitting every game with a microscope until we find it?

I guess you didn't read my breakdowns. BB had a great game. The passing offense was productive. The defense gave up that 64 yard run to McFadden early but on the day the Raiders rushed for 119. The Raiders passing game was efficient but only 202 yards. Again, turnovers & mistakes. AB gets a punt return called back on a penalty in the 2nd, Dwyer fumbles at their own 31 in the 2nd, and Antonio Brown fumbles at the Raiders 36 in the 4th. Wouldn't you put the game on those mistakes before anything?

No, I would put the game on the fact that in their last 5 possessions on the field to a washed up, has been, no hoping bozo like Carson Palmer this alleged "#1 ranked" defense gave up 27 points in 5 drives.

If you can't blame the defense for that game? You'll never blame them for ANYTHING.

supersteeler
01-12-2013, 02:41 PM
The problems we had this year have to be shared by all units. All I know we lost 5 games by three points, win two of those any we play in the post season.
The defense had their issue's earlier in the season but came on and put us in position to win games but the offense couldn't generate points, and when we had good field position in many games on returns we had penalties that negated them.
Combine that with drops by our receivers killing drives the unbelieveable 7 fumbles in Cleveland, the injuries and so on, no wonder we are sitting at home.


Its frustrating for all of us, but the game that really pissed me off was when we played San Diego@ Home BTW, the Steelers flat out wern't ready to play that game, I guess they left all their plays and emotion in Baltimore when Batch beat the Rats.

feltdizz
01-12-2013, 03:00 PM
So... The D sucked against the Raiders. I can buy that but I remember the I giving them short fields as well. What about the second half of the season? The O was horrible. Every game where we needed a last minute drive ended with an INTo besides the Philly game.

If this season was lost by the D then we will never make the playoffs again because anytime we did get a TO the O floundered... except for the game vs the Giants.

Crash
01-12-2013, 03:56 PM
So... The D sucked against the Raiders. I can buy that but I remember the I giving them short fields as well.

They gave then ONE short field after Brown's fumble.

Don't you read? THREE TIMES we scored touchdowns.

THREE TIMES the defense gave a TD back.

If that doesn't blame this defense, nothing will.

Crash
01-12-2013, 03:57 PM
If this season was lost by the D then we will never make the playoffs again because anytime we did get a TO the O floundered... except for the game vs the Giants.

How many drives did the offense get to start on the opponent side of the field because of a turnover forced all season?

Jooser
01-12-2013, 04:11 PM
Jeeeez! I hope your typing fingers get syphilis and rot off. Who let you back in here?

Crash
01-12-2013, 04:27 PM
LOL That's not a nice thing to say.

Jooser
01-12-2013, 04:42 PM
...and do you ever have anything nice to say? I have a better avatar for you...

750

Crash
01-12-2013, 04:46 PM
Sure I do.

Have a nice day. :D

fezziwig
01-12-2013, 08:17 PM
Not to sound horrible but here's my question: Who would be incharge once Dan and Art II are gone someday ? Is there a Dan or Art III or family members that wil continue to carry things on ?

ikestops85
01-12-2013, 11:57 PM
I just want to give kudos to JPN for his great analysis of some games that Crash continually brings up. What Crash fails to realize is almost everyone on this board thought the defense played horrible to start the season.

It looked very bad with Harrison not playing like himself, Hampton looking over the hill, Keisel the same as Hampton, and of course Troy being injured. Everyone was saying DL couldn't adjust to not having a healthy Troy. Then the old man made an adjustment ... he replaced Mundy with Will Allen and move Clark closer to the line of scrimmage. The defense started playing lights out.

It continued to play that way until Troy got healthy and was inserted into the starting lineup. It was obvious Troy was not in football shape ... in fact the word 'fat' comes to mind. We struggled for the next couple of games until Troy got back into game shape. We started playing great again.

I guess the question that comes to mind is should we have started Troy when he became healthy? That move probably cost us a playoff spot but would you effectively bench your future HOF safety? What coach would have the nads to do that? Not many that I can think of ... at least not many that would still be coaching.

C'mon folks ... the defense isn't the problem area. The offense is the problem area and we all know it. We have the weapons on the offensive side of the ball but it's hard to unleash them when we don't have either good or healthy big uglies. Until that problem gets fixed the offense will continue to be inconsistent and a problem area.

Crash
01-13-2013, 12:06 AM
Dan Rooney JR. 48 years old, and a scout based out of North Carolina is "next man up" for ownership.

Crash
01-13-2013, 12:07 AM
C'mon folks ... the defense isn't the problem area. The offense is the problem area and we all know it.

They both have issues. LeBeau's problem is scheme.

It's cook book.

BradshawsHairdresser
01-13-2013, 10:30 AM
Hopefully, the Steelers are looking to make improvements in all three phases of the game, defense, offense, and STs...

Slapstick
01-13-2013, 10:37 AM
Both offense and defense had problems this year...the defense's problem was health, initially...then, the offense's problems became paramount...

Crash
01-13-2013, 12:10 PM
No, the defense's problem initially was giving up 4th quarter leads and give back points.

Just like I said they would.

Same issues they always have, healthy or not.

2nd most 4th quarter leads/game winning drives given up since 2007.

Health hasn't been an issue for 6 years people.

Sword
01-14-2013, 10:12 AM
I so agree with most of what you said..this is what I've been saying for a long time.
We are not aggressive enough. I get so tiring of run..run..pass..I can almost tell you what we are going to do....

Folks you have to score touchdowns and be aggressive to win games and playoffs and eventually the Superbowl.
The 2005-06 team in the playoffs was very aggressive play calling.... And what happen by being aggressive every game????
And focused (Coaching)....