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steelz09
01-07-2013, 09:56 PM
Te'o in the 1st round?

With the way he's getting dominated by Alabama, we might be able to get him in the 2nd.

Oviedo
01-07-2013, 09:59 PM
Te'o in the 1st round?

With the way he's getting dominated by Alabama, we might be able to get him in the 2nd.

T'eo is getting pushed around like a ragdoll. Welcome to playing the "big boys"

Chance Warmack on the other hand in manhandling ND players. On the first TD it appeared he blocked two players at the same time.

steelz09
01-07-2013, 10:03 PM
Yup.. and he's looked bad in pass coverage. That last TD was clearly Te'o's fault. He got sucked in by the playaction and left the TE wide open.

He almost reminds me of Foote, lol.

feltdizz
01-07-2013, 10:07 PM
T'eo was a feel good story due to tragedy and being on MD. Pitt ran around him and Bama is running through him. He should NE available late in the first but why would we want him?

Shawn
01-07-2013, 10:12 PM
Honestly, after watching Te'o color me unimpressed. I would rather grab Zack Boren in the 5th...a guy with enough strength to sort through trash, and enough speed to go sideline to sideline.

steelz09
01-07-2013, 10:16 PM
I wonder if Te'o realizes that he lost millions of dollars in a matter of 15 minutes.

Dee Dub
01-07-2013, 10:17 PM
Honestly, after watching Te'o color me unimpressed. I would rather grab Zack Boren in the 5th...a guy with enough strength to sort through trash, and enough speed to go sideline to sideline.

Seriously? After 1 quarter of football? Wow..you guys are a tough crowd.

I'd still take him in a heart beat. I understand that a players value isn't based on his performance in just one game. ;)

Shawn
01-07-2013, 10:17 PM
I wonder if Te'o realizes that he lost millions of dollars in a matter of 15 minutes.

Im sure his agent will let him know after the game.

Shawn
01-07-2013, 10:19 PM
Seriously? After 1 quarter of football? Wow..you guys are a tough crowd.

I'd still take him in a heart beat. I understand that a players value isn't based on his performance in just one game. ;)

i don't know Dee...something to be said about how a player shows up in the biggest game of his life, against NFL talent.

Dee Dub
01-07-2013, 10:30 PM
i don't know Dee...something to be said about how a player shows up in the biggest game of his life, against NFL talent.

NFL teams and scouts will look at his complete body of work. Put me down as one who thinks he will be a great player in the NFL. And this game tonight will have nothing to do with it one way or the other.

steelz09
01-07-2013, 10:34 PM
Don't get me wrong.. I like Te'o.

You have to put things into perspective though. He's playing against a very good Alabama team that has numerous NFL prospects. You would expect a Heisman candidate & top 5 / top 10 pick to make an impact. In fact, he's making a NEGATIVE impact right now. That is not what you want from a top 5 / top 10 pick.

Shawn
01-07-2013, 10:36 PM
Seriously? After 1 quarter of football? Wow..you guys are a tough crowd.

I'd still take him in a heart beat. I understand that a players value isn't based on his performance in just one game. ;)

What about after 4? What if he continues to get ragged dolled and man handled by that OL? It doesn't mean anything? Just a fluke?

Shawn
01-07-2013, 10:38 PM
NFL teams and scouts will look at his complete body of work. Put me down as one who thinks he will be a great player in the NFL. And this game tonight will have nothing to do with it one way or the other.

and I'm not saying that a scout shouldn't. Just saying this game means something about his stock. It's going to take a hit...and rightfully so. I bet he is there for the Steelers when we pick.

steelz09
01-07-2013, 10:38 PM
NFL teams and scouts will look at his complete body of work. Put me down as one who thinks he will be a great player in the NFL. And this game tonight will have nothing to do with it one way or the other.

You do realize that his "body of work" isn't against a team like Alabama which is as close to the NFL in college as you can get. If this is any indication of his play against NFL talent then you've got to be worried.

steelz09
01-07-2013, 10:40 PM
and I'm not saying that a scout shouldn't. Just saying this game means something about his stock. It's going to take a hit...and rightfully so. I bet he is there for the Steelers when we pick.

I agree. It will definitely hurt his stock.

Oviedo
01-07-2013, 10:47 PM
NFL teams and scouts will look at his complete body of work. Put me down as one who thinks he will be a great player in the NFL. And this game tonight will have nothing to do with it one way or the other.

Looks like another Rey Maleuga to me. Decent but against the talent he will see in the NFL nothing special.

Chadman
01-07-2013, 10:49 PM
Didn't see the game, but before we stick the pitchforks in Te'o, how did his DL hold up against the Alabama OL? If they got dominated, Chadman would come to expect that the LB's would get blown up as a result.

feltdizz
01-07-2013, 10:54 PM
Didn't see the game, but before we stick the pitchforks in Te'o, how did his DL hold up against the Alabama OL? If they got dominated, Chadman would come to expect that the LB's would get blown up as a result.

T'eo has been in position to.make stops but guys are running through his arm
tackles.

pfelix73
01-07-2013, 11:03 PM
You all are crazy. He can't line up and play them all by himself. He does need his other 10 teammates to show up too. There's no I in Team.

NorthCoast
01-07-2013, 11:15 PM
1st rd pick has to be a 'can't miss'. Teo does not look like a 'can't miss'... but rather a 'cant tackle'. Being in position to make a tackle and simply not making it is not a good sign for a supposed top pick. And its happened more than once in this game.

No thank you to Teo.

pfelix73
01-07-2013, 11:26 PM
He's a can't miss.

pfelix73
01-07-2013, 11:27 PM
Problem is- ND has no offense! That QB suks. ND's defense is always on the field.

hawaiiansteel
01-07-2013, 11:38 PM
Didn't see the game, but before we stick the pitchforks in Te'o, how did his DL hold up against the Alabama OL? If they got dominated, Chadman would come to expect that the LB's would get blown up as a result.

the Alabama center Barrett Jones is manhandling ND's NT all by himself which is freeing up Alabama's OGs to get to the 2nd level and block the LBers.

steelz09
01-07-2013, 11:40 PM
Problem is- ND has no offense! That QB suks. ND's defense is always on the field.

Are you watching the same game I am? The offense hasn't done anything but Golson isn't the problem. Where are his weapons?

The story of the game is the ND defense. Where is this big bad defense that we've been hearing about?

The ND defense is a joke and Te'o has been part of the problem and not the solution. Spare me the 'I' in team talk.

I'm not saying he needs to be a one man wrecking crew. I'm saying that he should look like 1st round pick and he doesn't. He's playing poorly against the run, poorly against the pass, getting swallowed by offensive lineman and flat out missing tackles. He's a good player but he is NOT having a game that you'd expect a "highly decorated" ILB to have.

Tonight, he doesn't look like a top 5 pick, a top 10 pick or even a 1st round pick. I hope it's just one bad game.

steelfin
01-07-2013, 11:46 PM
Too bad Mosley is not coming out his junior year....He looks way more impressive than Te'o...

steelz09
01-07-2013, 11:46 PM
the Alabama center Barrett Jones is manhandling ND's NT all by himself which is freeing up Alabama's OGs to get to the 2nd level and block the LBers.

He is getting blocked but there have been other issues with his game tonight. Not shedding blocks, missed tackles, and he bit on the playaction causing a TD. That TE was his man.

Chadman
01-07-2013, 11:51 PM
the Alabama center Barrett Jones is manhandling ND's NT all by himself which is freeing up Alabama's OGs to get to the 2nd level and block the LBers.

Well, not many ILB's tend to look so good in those circumstances.

pfelix73
01-08-2013, 12:01 AM
Are you watching the same game I am? The offense hasn't done anything but Golson isn't the problem. Where are his weapons?

The story of the game is the ND defense. Where is this big bad defense that we've been hearing about?

The ND defense is a joke and Te'o has been part of the problem and not the solution. Spare me the 'I' in team talk.

I'm not saying he needs to be a one man wrecking crew. I'm saying that he should look like 1st round pick and he doesn't. He's playing poorly against the run, poorly against the pass, getting swallowed by offensive lineman and flat out missing tackles. He's a good player but he is NOT having a game that you'd expect a "highly decorated" ILB to have.

Tonight, he doesn't look like a top 5 pick, a top 10 pick or even a 1st round pick. I hope it's just one bad game.


Spare you the no I in Team talk? Obviously, you don't play in team sports.. Go play your golf down there in Charleston, so when you fuk up on a hole you can blame yourself with it.

Te'o will be a top 10 pick. Hell, the Eagles are interested in him at where they are picking... So whatever- again, its all a crap shoot.

Shawn
01-08-2013, 12:08 AM
You all are crazy. He can't line up and play them all by himself. He does need his other 10 teammates to show up too. There's no I in Team.

will his teammates help him actually wrap a tackle?

steelz09
01-08-2013, 12:11 AM
Spare you the no I in Team talk? Obviously, you don't play in team sports.. Go play your golf down there in Charleston, so when you *** up on a hole you can blame yourself with it.

Te'o will be a top 10 pick. Hell, the Eagles are interested in him at where they are picking... So whatever- again, its all a crap shoot.

Actually, I don't play golf anymore. There is a difference between being a team player and getting worked. Te'o and the entire ND defense is getting worked. No need to take it personally. Oh, and btw.. no need to curse.

papillon
01-08-2013, 12:12 AM
Manti is having a bad night along with the other 10 ND defenders. He is not only getting blocked, but he's made bad reads and crashed inside and the play went outside, he has struggled to get off blocks and when he has made a good read and shot a gap Lacy has run through his tackles. He is just having one of those games that you want to forget. On the other hand, I don't want the Steelers to draft him, maybe Lacy will declare and drop down to number 17, he would certainly be a good replacement for Mendenhall if the Steelers can't resign him. His legs are thick, he makes a decision and goes with it and he has nimble feet, love to see him in Black and Gold.

Pappy

steelz09
01-08-2013, 12:13 AM
will his teammates help him actually wrap a tackle?

Exactly. Is it his teammates fault that Te'o bit on the playaction which caused the TE to be wide open in the endzone for a TD?

He was too worried about getting run over again by Lacy.

Dee Dub
01-08-2013, 12:53 AM
the Alabama center Barrett Jones is manhandling ND's NT all by himself which is freeing up Alabama's OGs to get to the 2nd level and block the LBers.

hawaiian, dont waste your time trying to explain the game of football to these guys.

Dick Butkus in his prime would not have been able to shake Chance Warmack one on one at the second level.

papillon
01-08-2013, 12:58 AM
hawaiian, dont waste your time trying to explain the game of football to these guys.

Dick Butkus in his prime would not have been able to shake Chance Warmack one on one at the second level.

Just out of curiosity how would you grade Te'o in tonight's game? I know he's your guy and the couple times I saw him play earlier in the season he played great and I thought he'll be a good ILB in the NFL. Tonight's game has to give you some cause for concern though playing against at least 3 offensive linemen that will be playing on Sunday in the near future.

Pappy

Dee Dub
01-08-2013, 01:33 AM
Just out of curiosity how would you grade Te'o in tonight's game? I know he's your guy and the couple times I saw him play earlier in the season he played great and I thought he'll be a good ILB in the NFL. Tonight's game has to give you some cause for concern though playing against at least 3 offensive linemen that will be playing on Sunday in the near future.

Pappy

There's no question he played well below what he is capable of playing. He did not play very well at. I see couple of things here. This is the biggest game he has ever played in. He and his teammates have never played in a game of this magnitude. On the other side, for Alabama, this is the second time in back to back years that they have played a game like this. For a guy like Barrett Jones this is his 3rd one in 4 years. No excuses but not only was Notre Dame over-matched talent wise but they were also over-whelmed by the stage they were on. Alabama is not just a great college football team. They are going to go down as one of the greatest of all time.

It is my opinion that Manti Te'o would excel in a 3-4 defense. One in which the front 3 plug the gaps and allow him to flow to the ball. He could make splash plays if he is allowed to run at the ball carrier without having a 320 lb lineman coming at him. It is the reason Ray Lewis begged the Ravens to draft Hiloti Ngata.


Remember one thing about him playing against NFL type players tonight, when Te'o is in the NFL he will play on a defense that has NFL players around him. He really didnt have the same type of quality players around him at Notre Dame as Alabama had coming at him.

Dee Dub
01-08-2013, 01:35 AM
Just out of curiosity how would you grade Te'o in tonight's game? I know he's your guy and the couple times I saw him play earlier in the season he played great and I thought he'll be a good ILB in the NFL. Tonight's game has to give you some cause for concern though playing against at least 3 offensive linemen that will be playing on Sunday in the near future.

Pappy

And I have no concern about him based on tonight's game. I believe in the NFL he is going to me a great football player.

Chadman
01-08-2013, 01:40 AM
Tend to agree that Te'o shouldn't be discounted based on 1 poor game. There are many factors that go into failure- it's not always the end result that someone should be judged on.

Still, not certain that he'll be on the Steelers radar.

Shawn
01-08-2013, 08:33 AM
Actually, I don't play golf anymore. There is a difference between being a team player and getting worked. Te'o and the entire ND defense is getting worked. No need to take it personally. Oh, and btw.. no need to curse.


hawaiian, dont waste your time trying to explain the game of football to these guys.

Dick Butkus in his prime would not have been able to shake Chance Warmack one on one at the second level.

i don't claim to be a football guru like yourself...but the last time I checked making a basic tackle was in the job description of a football player. That has nothing to do with Warmack or the other ND defenders. It is what it is...he had a bad game. Just wonder what it means for his stock in the draft.

Oviedo
01-08-2013, 09:04 AM
There's no question he played well below what he is capable of playing. He did not play very well at. I see couple of things here. This is the biggest game he has ever played in. He and his teammates have never played in a game of this magnitude. On the other side, for Alabama, this is the second time in back to back years that they have played a game like this. For a guy like Barrett Jones this is his 3rd one in 4 years. No excuses but not only was Notre Dame over-matched talent wise but they were also over-whelmed by the stage they were on. Alabama is not just a great college football team. They are going to go down as one of the greatest of all time.

It is my opinion that Manti Te'o would excel in a 3-4 defense. One in which the front 3 plug the gaps and allow him to flow to the ball. He could make splash plays if he is allowed to run at the ball carrier without having a 320 lb lineman coming at him. It is the reason Ray Lewis begged the Ravens to draft Hiloti Ngata.


Remember one thing about him playing against NFL type players tonight, when Te'o is in the NFL he will play on a defense that has NFL players around him. He really didnt have the same type of quality players around him at Notre Dame as Alabama had coming at him.

I would disagree with the blame your putting on the Notre Dame DL. Probably everyone of those defensive linemen will be playing on Sundays sooner or later. That is a very highly regarded DL so T'eo's failures can't be put on them. He was bad all by himself.

The silver lining is that hopefully he was bad enough to be an option at #17. His times at the combine will determine where he gets slotted. If he can run near 4.5 he will be a Top 15 pick, however if he runs in the 4.8 range, as many expect, he will be in the lower half of the round.

Steelhere10
01-08-2013, 09:37 AM
Like I said in a previous thread, my Co - worker is a big Nd fan and this is what he said about him
Overrated > check
Miss tackles > check
Take bad angles >check

Chadman
01-08-2013, 09:43 AM
I would disagree with the blame your putting on the Notre Dame DL. Probably everyone of those defensive linemen will be playing on Sundays sooner or later. That is a very highly regarded DL so T'eo's failures can't be put on them. He was bad all by himself.

Agreed that there is some chance those ND DLinemen will make it to the NFL. It's not a question so much of the quality of the PLAYERS around Teó, more the quality of their play against the Alabama OL. It doesn't really matter if all the ND DL's are set to become Hall of Fame guys- if they were all dominated by the Alabama OL, it'll have the same effect on Teó's play as if they were all Pilsbury Doughboy's.

For LB's to shine, generally, it takes the guys in front of them to open up the field. It's generally the same principle for QB's & RB's... if their OL doesn't hold up, you could have Montana & Sanders back there- they won't be 'as good' as they should be.

Judging Teó on one game is a bad way to judge someone. His body of work suggests he's a quality player.

feltdizz
01-08-2013, 09:48 AM
You gonna believe Dee or your lying eyes?

Anyone who followed this ND team and didn't get wrapped up in the NBC hype could see he was good but not Heisman worthy.

ramblinjim
01-08-2013, 09:48 AM
I'm not a college football guy, I get most of my information on the draft here. But that Alabama offensive line looked like a group of all-pro's (that had played together for a couple of years) going against the practice squad. Te'o may be a great pro, may be a terrible pro but it didn't matter tonight. Alabama's offensive line was just that dominant.

Chadman
01-08-2013, 09:51 AM
I'm not a college football guy, I get most of my information on the draft here. But that Alabama offensive line looked like a group of all-pro's (that had played together for a couple of years) going against the practice squad. Te'o may be a great pro, may be a terrible pro but it didn't matter tonight. Alabama's offensive line was just that dominant.

That's about as clear & to the point as it can be. Chadman agrees with this.

feltdizz
01-08-2013, 09:55 AM
Agreed that there is some chance those ND DLinemen will make it to the NFL. It's not a question so much of the quality of the PLAYERS around Teó, more the quality of their play against the Alabama OL. It doesn't really matter if all the ND DL's are set to become Hall of Fame guys- if they were all dominated by the Alabama OL, it'll have the same effect on Teó's play as if they were all Pilsbury Doughboy's.

For LB's to shine, generally, it takes the guys in front of them to open up the field. It's generally the same principle for QB's & RB's... if their OL doesn't hold up, you could have Montana & Sanders back there- they won't be 'as good' as they should be.

Judging Teó on one game is a bad way to judge someone. His body of work suggests he's a quality player.

I've watched ND all year... good player but not a great player. Someone will take him in the top 15 and they will be disappointed. There are more Alabama RB's in the NFL than Purdue, Wake Forest and Navy RB's...

Chadman
01-08-2013, 10:01 AM
I've watched ND all year... good player but not a great player. Someone will take him in the top 15 and they will be disappointed. There are more Alabama RB's in the NFL than Purdue, Wake Forest and Navy RB's...

That's quite possibly right. Chadman thought the same in the great "Timmons vs Poszluzny" debate when everyone was hammering on about how great Poz was going to be. Given where each is now- the Steelers got it right.

Not convinced the Steelers will be chasing an ILB that early, anyway..

Dee Dub
01-08-2013, 10:17 AM
i don't claim to be a football guru like yourself...but the last time I checked making a basic tackle was in the job description of a football player. That has nothing to do with Warmack or the other ND defenders. It is what it is...he had a bad game. Just wonder what it means for his stock in the draft.

Yes you are correct. And the Steelers have one of the best defensive football players (when healthy), in the entire world who misses tackles like that as well.

Manti Te'o missed a couple of tackles in the open field versus a fabulous running back.

And your point is?

flippy
01-08-2013, 10:33 AM
hawaiian, dont waste your time trying to explain the game of football to these guys.

Dick Butkus in his prime would not have been able to shake Chance Warmack one on one at the second level.

And that might be the reason we should take Warmack if he's available. It's definitely not a need, but I'm thinking he just might be BPA when we pick.

Guess we can always try and trade down since we don't need the BPA.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
01-08-2013, 10:54 AM
I think what we saw was a result of a great coach and a championship team getting three weeks to prepare for a good coach and a good team.

steelblood
01-08-2013, 12:07 PM
NFL teams and scouts will look at his complete body of work. Put me down as one who thinks he will be a great player in the NFL. And this game tonight will have nothing to do with it one way or the other.

Yes, they will. But this game will count for more than most other games in scouts' analysis. As some have said, this is the sort of pro style offense and talent he will see on a weekly basis. I'm sure scouts and coach's put a lot more weight on this tape and the Stanford game than offenses that play gimmicky styles or lack NFL talent. The question was if Nix cannot occupy two blockers, is Te'o still a top ten talent. It sure didn't look like it last night. That said, I might still take him with the 17th pick as he has great talent and should be a good pro. But, I certainly would not trade up for him after that game. It matters.

Shawn
01-08-2013, 12:21 PM
Yes you are correct. And the Steelers have one of the best defensive football players (when healthy), in the entire world who misses tackles like that as well.

Manti Te'o missed a couple of tackles in the open field versus a fabulous running back.

And your point is?

My point is, in the biggest game of his life, against the best talent he has seen...he played poorly. Now people who have invested their egos into tooting this guy's horn are going to be apologists and talk down to those of us who are not "football gurus" like themselves.

My only point is this...I want players who play big in big games. That performace by Te'o was pathetic. And while I'm not saying he isn't a quality player, that performance raised my eyebrow. And I assure you it will raise the eyebrows of many scouts around the league. How many players draft stock jump or fall based upon a Senior Bowl showing? This will be no different.

Shawn
01-08-2013, 12:24 PM
You gonna believe Dee or your lying eyes?

Anyone who followed this ND team and didn't get wrapped up in the NBC hype could see he was good but not Heisman worthy.

I'm going to believe Dee because I don't know anything about football. :)

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
01-08-2013, 12:35 PM
Someone in here said Bama's OL looked like a bunch of Probowlers & were dominant. Well, that is why the "tape" speaks volumes...That game fuels the speculation. Questions on how his game transitions to the NFL haven't been answered. Te'O against an NFL caliber OL....Didn't fair well. Ok...Maybe one game. Now they go back and look at other games and look closer at how he matches up against other NFL caliber players @ OL, TE, RB, & FB. Is there a Pattern? Are there more Struggles? Did his production benefit from the guys in front of him against lesser competition? If Te'O's Combine 10 yard split, cone times, & position work outs look average...Do things come into perspective? I think after last nights game...There are far more questions than answers. I think the only thing you could take from that game on Te'O is there is a greater chance he will be on the board at #17. That game didn't play himself out of the 1st round by no means but I belive he played himself out of the Top 10.

steelz09
01-08-2013, 01:04 PM
Someone in here said Bama's OL looked like a bunch of Probowlers & were dominant. Well, that is why the "tape" speaks volumes...That game fuels the speculation. Questions on how his game transitions to the NFL haven't been answered. Te'O against an NFL caliber OL....Didn't fair well. Ok...Maybe one game. Now they go back and look at other games and look closer at how he matches up against other NFL caliber players @ OL, TE, RB, & FB. Is there a Pattern? Are there more Struggles? Did his production benefit from the guys in front of him against lesser competition? If Te'O's Combine 10 yard split, cone times, & position work outs look average...Do things come into perspective? I think after last nights game...There are far more questions than answers. I think the only thing you could take from that game on Te'O is there is a greater chance he will be on the board at #17. That game didn't play himself out of the 1st round by no means but I belive he played himself out of the Top 10.

I completely agree. Every player evaluator in the league will have to make those comparisons on tape and look very, very closely. I'm not in favor of drafting workout warriors that fair well in the combine but you can't dispute that Te'o's combine performance will matter.

If he's available at #17, I certainly wouldn't be disappointed with that selection as of now. I'd have to look at more of his play than just last night and other "highlights". I would also need to see some of his combine results.

IMO, he is not a top 10 pick right now. Add in the fact that ILB's don't typically get drafted that high anyways.

Here is a player comparison with the last ILB that I remember getting drafted as high as where Te'O is projected.

Patrick Willis (Ole Miss):



Year

G-S

UT

AT

TT

TFL-YDS

Sacks-Yds

CF

FR

PD

PRES

INT

BLK



2003

13-0

16

4

20

1.0-6

0-0




1





2004

10-0

54

16

70

11.0-62

5.0-39

1

1

1

4





2005

10-10

90

38

128

9.5-42

3.0-28

2

1

3

2

1




Total

33-10

160

58

218

21.5-110

8.0-67

3

2

4

7

1

0





*Didn't Willis play with a broken forearm his senior year?


Manti Te'O (Notre Dame)




Tackles
Def Int
Fumbles


Year
Solo
Ast
Tot
Loss
Sk
Int
Yds
Avg
TD
PD
FR
FF


2009 (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2009.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
29
34
63
5.5
1.0
0
0

0
1
0
0


2010 (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2010.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
66
67
133
9.5
1.0
0
0

0
3
0
1


2011 (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2011.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
62
66
128
13.5
5.0
0
0

0
2
0
1


2012 (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2012.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
52
51
103
5.5
1.5
7
35
5.0
0
11
1
0


Career
209
218
427
34.0
8.5
7
35
5.0
0
17
1
2

Dee Dub
01-08-2013, 01:05 PM
I would disagree with the blame your putting on the Notre Dame DL. Probably everyone of those defensive linemen will be playing on Sundays sooner or later

Ovi the difference between the D-lineman of Notre Dame and the O-lineman of Alabama is being NFL ready. Although they may eventually become NFL players in the future, Notre Dame's D-front is far from NFL ready. And Alabama's O-line is as ready as it gets. There's a big difference there.

Dee Dub
01-08-2013, 01:10 PM
I'm going to believe Dee because I don't know anything about football. :)

Shawn no need to get your feelings hurt. You have expressed your opinion about Te'o which I do not believe is correct. Simple as that. There was no intent on insulting you or anyone else. But it seems as if old wounds have not completely healed. So be it.

I stand by my thoughts on Te'o. And no pride or ego is involved and there certainly is no need to be an apologist. I've seen thousands of great players have bad games. Te'o's game last night does not change what I have seen of him over the past 4 years.

Shawn
01-08-2013, 01:13 PM
Shawn no need to get your feelings hurt. You have expressed your opinion about Te'o which I do not believe is correct. Simple as that. There was no intent on insulting you or anyone else. But it seems as if old wounds have not completely healed. So be it.

I stand by my thoughts on Te'o. And no pride or ego is involved and there certainly is no need to be an apologist. I've seen thousands of great players have bad games. Te'o's game last night does not change what I have seen of him over the past 4 years.

I'll try not to feel small and pathetic...thanks for your comforting words. :)

feltdizz
01-08-2013, 01:17 PM
Patrick Willis played for Ole Miss in the SEC and went against NFL talent for 3 years.

I think it's fair to judge T'eo on his performance in this game since he was a Heisman finalist. You expect a guy to show up or make tackles instead of getting run over and run through by RB's when 1 on 1. T'eo looked slow and over matched IMO. He became popular because he suffered 2 deaths in the same week earlier this year and the team went on a good run.

feltdizz
01-08-2013, 01:19 PM
Shawn no need to get your feelings hurt. You have expressed your opinion about Te'o which I do not believe is correct. Simple as that. There was no intent on insulting you or anyone else. But it seems as if old wounds have not completely healed. So be it.

I stand by my thoughts on Te'o. And no pride or ego is involved and there certainly is no need to be an apologist. I've seen thousands of great players have bad games. Te'o's game last night does not change what I have seen of him over the past 4 years.

their D was awful before this year... night and day to be exact. They may not be NFL ready but they were pretty impressive outside of the PITT game. This wasn't a case of T'eo getting doubled... he missed more tackles in the first quarter then he did all season.

papillon
01-08-2013, 01:33 PM
their D was awful before this year... night and day to be exact. They may not be NFL ready but they were pretty impressive outside of the PITT game. This wasn't a case of T'eo getting doubled... he missed more tackles in the first quarter then he did all season.

If I recall the Pitt game correctly the Panthers were able to neutralize Te'o as well, not necessarily from a physical standpoint, but from a scheme standpoint. They seemed to be able to avoid him or put him positions where he was making plays, but not the big splash play.

I know the folks that like Te'o will say look at his body of work and those that weren't sure of his stock status will say he was horrible and I hope my team doesn't draft him. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. It would be difficult for me as a scout or GM to watch the game last night and say, "if that guy's available at 1.17 I'm taking him". Maybe, hey, he's had a great career and a bad game at the worst time, so if he's there in the second we'll take him.

There were so many other players that looked good that may be available at 1.17, Warmack, Jones, Lacy, Millner (not likely to fall that far) that it would be difficult to remove last night's game from the mix. Te'o's comments after the game were those of a high character player and that will count a lot as well. I wish him well, he's a good player that had a bad night at the worst time. However, I hope the Steelers pass on him if he's there at 1.17 and either Lacy, Warmack or Jones is there for the taking.

I would love for Trent Richardson II (provided he declares) to be wearing Black and Gold next year. Redman and Dwyer aren't in the same ball park as Lacy, IMO, that guy is downhill all the time.

Pappy

BigRob
01-08-2013, 01:57 PM
Te'o in the 1st round?

With the way he's getting dominated by Alabama, we might be able to get him in the 2nd.

With the level of competition he faced last night and his body of work, he will still be a top 20 pick.

However, he IS NOT a top 10 pick. He showed he is mortal against NFL type competition last night. Great player, but not worth a top ten pick. I think Kuechly last year was a better player.

He's going to run a 4.75 to 4.8 in the 40. I will be interested to see what his measurables come out to be. Dee is right in saying his best fit will be as an ILB in the 3-4.

BigRob
01-08-2013, 02:02 PM
Manti is having a bad night along with the other 10 ND defenders. He is not only getting blocked, but he's made bad reads and crashed inside and the play went outside, he has struggled to get off blocks and when he has made a good read and shot a gap Lacy has run through his tackles. He is just having one of those games that you want to forget. On the other hand, I don't want the Steelers to draft him, maybe Lacy will declare and drop down to number 17, he would certainly be a good replacement for Mendenhall if the Steelers can't resign him. His legs are thick, he makes a decision and goes with it and he has nimble feet, love to see him in Black and Gold.

Pappy

No thank you on Lacy. Anyone could run with that O-line in front of him. Alabama backs underachieve in the NFL. Look at Richardson. Was there anything there that shouted special this year?

Lacy isn't even as good as Richardson and Ingram.

BigRob
01-08-2013, 02:05 PM
And that might be the reason we should take Warmack if he's available. It's definitely not a need, but I'm thinking he just might be BPA when we pick.

Guess we can always try and trade down since we don't need the BPA.

Warmack is going to go higher than Decastro last year. Too many teams need guards this year. Jets and Cowboys come to mind.

If he is BPA at 17, the Steelers might be forced to take him. He is just so dang dominant at everything.

Oviedo
01-08-2013, 02:06 PM
With the level of competition he faced last night and his body of work, he will still be a top 20 pick.

However, he IS NOT a top 10 pick. He showed he is mortal against NFL type competition last night. Great player, but not worth a top ten pick. I think Kuechly last year was a better player.

Completely agree that Kuechly was a better player in college. The DL in front of Keuchly was no where near as good as the players in front of T'eo

BigRob
01-08-2013, 02:10 PM
Completely agree that Kuechly was a better player in college. The DL in front of Keuchly was no where near as good as the players in front of T'eo

A couple of scouts on Twitter are saying Te'o is very "Demeco Ryans" like. A great player, but no where near a top ten player.

I don't like ILB in the first much period, but Kuechly really turned it on the second half of the year for Carolina.

I'll take Minter in the 2nd/Late 1st over Te'o at this point. Minter proved he can play against this level of competition all season long.

papillon
01-08-2013, 02:10 PM
No thank you on Lacy. Anyone could run with that O-line in front of him. Alabama backs underachieve in the NFL. Look at Richardson. Was there anything there that shouted special this year?

Lacy isn't even as good as Richardson and Ingram.

I'd take my chances with him, he runs downhill, has a low center of gravity, does well after contact, and has good balance. I've watched him twice this year and he's looked good on both occasions. Maybe, it's coincidence and maybe he'll suck as an NFL running back, but I'd take my chances with him. I also know the Steelers probably aren't taking a 1st round running back, so he won't be a Steeler. I'd be happy with Jones or Warmack and they're both trending mid to late first round.

Pappy

BigRob
01-08-2013, 02:15 PM
I'd take my chances with him, he runs downhill, has a low center of gravity, does well after contact, and has good balance. I've watched him twice this year and he's looked good on both occasions. Maybe, it's coincidence and maybe he'll suck as an NFL running back, but I'd take my chances with him. I also know the Steelers probably aren't taking a 1st round running back, so he won't be a Steeler. I'd be happy with Jones or Warmack and they're both trending mid to late first round.

Pappy

Lacy will be lucky to be a late 1st round pick. That O-line makes every running back look all world. Good Back, not a first rounder. A second rounder he is.

Dee Dub
01-08-2013, 02:30 PM
With the level of competition he faced last night and his body of work, he will still be a top 20 pick.

However, he IS NOT a top 10 pick. He showed he is mortal against NFL type competition last night. Great player, but not worth a top ten pick. I think Kuechly last year was a better player.

He's going to run a 4.75 to 4.8 in the 40. I will be interested to see what his measurables come out to be. Dee is right in saying his best fit will be as an ILB in the 3-4.

Question, how do you think he Te'o would have done versus Alabama last night if he was the ILB on the Georgia Bulldogs? With their front 7 instead of Notre Dame's front 7? If we are going to judge someone based on the level of competition they face why not also consider the level of competition he is playing with?

I am not giving Te'o a pass for the missed tackles, but like Troy Polamalu he is going to get to a lot more plays than that of an average LB. Thus he is going to miss his share of tackles. The amount of splash plays he gives in return out weigh that to me.

If I was a team drafting in the top 10 and needed an ILB I'd still take him.

BigRob
01-08-2013, 02:36 PM
Question, how do you think he Te'o would have done versus Alabama last night if he was the ILB on the Georgia Bulldogs? With their front 7 instead of Notre Dame's front 7? If we are going to judge someone based on the level of competition they face why also consider the level of competition he is playing with?

I am not giving Te'o a pass for the missed tackles, but like Troy Polamalu he is going to get to a lot more plays than that of an average LB. Thus he is going to miss his share of tackles. The amount of splash plays he gives in return out weigh that to me.

If I was a team drafting in the top 10 and needed an ILB I'd still take him.

I am not spitting him over the fire for his performance last night. I have however not bought into all of the massive hype surrounding him this year.

ILB are just not that valuable in the NFL anymore. He is more "Demeco Ryans" and "AJ Hawk" than Luke Kuechly.

CB,LT,QB, and Pass Rushers are more valuable than ILB any day of the week.

RuthlessBurgher
01-08-2013, 02:39 PM
A second rounder he is.

Thank you, Yoda Kiper, Jedi draft master. :mrgreen:

Oviedo
01-08-2013, 02:40 PM
A couple of scouts on Twitter are saying Te'o is very "Demeco Ryans" like. A great player, but no where near a top ten player.

I don't like ILB in the first much period, but Kuechly really turned it on the second half of the year for Carolina.

I'll take Minter in the 2nd/Late 1st over Te'o at this point. Minter proved he can play against this level of competition all season long.

I'd also look at Jon Bostic, ILB out of Florida in Round 3.

Oviedo
01-08-2013, 02:45 PM
Question, how do you think he Te'o would have done versus Alabama last night if he was the ILB on the Georgia Bulldogs? With their front 7 instead of Notre Dame's front 7? If we are going to judge someone based on the level of competition they face why not also consider the level of competition he is playing with?

I am not giving Te'o a pass for the missed tackles, but like Troy Polamalu he is going to get to a lot more plays than that of an average LB. Thus he is going to miss his share of tackles. The amount of splash plays he gives in return out weigh that to me.

If I was a team drafting in the top 10 and needed an ILB I'd still take him.

Dee--you keep wanting to blame ;last night on the ND defensive line so you don't have to acknowledge T'eo's warts. ND has a very good DL and they have been solid all season. They just ran into the big boys last night.

As I said, T'eo reminds me very much of Rey Maleuga coming out of USC. Good but not great. Alec Ogletree was much better against Alabama then T'eo and IMO I would pick him before T'eo from a performance level perspective.

RuthlessBurgher
01-08-2013, 02:48 PM
No need to argue if Te'o is a top 5 or top 10 player now. We just need to know if he's worthy of being a top 17 player. I still say yes. If yesterday's performance means he drops out of the top 10 and into our laps at 17, then so be it. Our defense needs a true leader that we lost when Farrior hung up his cleats. I disagree that Te'o is merely a product of the NBC hype machine following a couple of deaths earlier this year...he was on my radar as a possibily for the 24th pick last year before he decided to return to school for his senior year. Judging a player solely by one game is like putting too much stock into the combine performances...as fans, we tend to overreact to these things, but I have faith that our scouting staff sees more of a complete picture when evaluating a player. I suspect Te'o will be placed atop the next RuthlessBurgher mock draft at #17 (after I finally finish the other mock where I suggested we trade down twice).

Dee Dub
01-08-2013, 02:49 PM
I am not spitting him over the fire for his performance last night. I have however not bought into all of the massive hype surrounding him this year.

ILB are just not that valuable in the NFL anymore. He is more "Demeco Ryans" and "AJ Hawk" than Luke Kuechly.

CB,LT,QB, and Pass Rushers are more valuable than ILB any day of the week.

I'd be very happy with a Demeco Ryans type. 156 tackles, 126 solo, 9 TFL's, 3.5 sacks, 1 FF, 1 FR, 1 INT, 6 PD's in his rookie year? Too me, that would be so worth a top 10 pick. And be flat out a steal at number 17.

Rob will you please honestly answer my question about how you think Te'o would have faired if he had the Georgia defense around him versus Alabama. Better? Same? or worse?

steelz09
01-08-2013, 02:50 PM
Question, how do you think he Te'o would have done versus Alabama last night if he was the ILB on the Georgia Bulldogs? With their front 7 instead of Notre Dame's front 7? If we are going to judge someone based on the level of competition they face why not also consider the level of competition he is playing with?

I am not giving Te'o a pass for the missed tackles, but like Troy Polamalu he is going to get to a lot more plays than that of an average LB. Thus he is going to miss his share of tackles. The amount of splash plays he gives in return out weigh that to me.

If I was a team drafting in the top 10 and needed an ILB I'd still take him.

I was under the impression that Notre Dame had a great d-line?

You do bring up an interesting point though. This is the problem that the Steelers and every other team has faced for the past several years. You may see a player that has had a great year and now you have to ask yourself...

Is he that good? What if he played in the SEC? Does a really good player in <enter conference here> equal an average talent in the SEC? In the SEC, these players are challenged week in and week out against some of the best competition in all of college football. In other conferences, they may only get challenged like that a couple times a year. When the playing field is so out of balance for some teams, it's hard to evaluate these players.

The same goes in reverse. Some have said Eric Reid was exposed this year. Is he not the player we thought he was? What if he played in the Big East? Would we still be questioning his ability? Would the easier competetion hide his "alleged" weakness? Obviously, to some degree, that is a yes.

Eddie Spaghetti
01-08-2013, 02:51 PM
Dee--you keep wanting to blame ;last night on the ND defensive line so you don't have to acknowledge T'eo's warts. ND has a very good DL and they have been solid all season. They just ran into the big boys last night.

As I said, T'eo reminds me very much of Rey Maleuga coming out of USC. Good but not great. Alec Ogletree was much better against Alabama then T'eo and IMO I would pick him before T'eo from a performance level perspective.

I'm with ovi on this one.

not trying to kick the kid while he is down, but last night was extremely troubling.

pfelix73
01-08-2013, 03:02 PM
Some bring up that Te'o is the next Malaluga type from USC and now others are comparing him to Ryans. What if, just what if, he's the next Ray Lewis type? Like ruthless says, he is a great team leader... Hell, I'd be happy with a young Farrior type and lets not forget he was 1st round pick too.

Dee Dub
01-08-2013, 03:07 PM
I'm with ovi on this one.

not trying to kick the kid while he is down, but last night was extremely troubling.

And how many high draft picks does Alec Ogletree play with? More than Te'o.

BigRob
01-08-2013, 03:08 PM
I'd be very happy with a Demeco Ryans type. 156 tackles, 126 solo, 9 TFL's, 3.5 sacks, 1 FF, 1 FR, 1 INT, 6 PD's in his rookie year? Too me, that would be so worth a top 10 pick. And be flat out a steal at number 17.

Rob will you please honestly answer my question about how you think Te'o would have faired if he had the Georgia defense around him versus Alabama. Better? Same? or worse?

Do you really think that Stephon Tuitt and Louis Nix are that far apart from John Jenkins and the Georgia counterparts? Nope, not talent wise.

Both teams got absolutely crushed by that Alabama O-line. Alec Ogletree struggled some, but made a lot of big plays against Alabama.

Te'o is absolutely a first round draft pick. Hell, he would even be a pick to consider outside the top ten for the Steelers. Doesn't make him a top ten pick.

Calling someone "Demeco Ryans" is not an insult by the way.

However, Demeco Ryans just illustrates my point that you can get plenty of pro bowl talent at ILB in the second round. ;)

BigRob
01-08-2013, 03:10 PM
And how many high draft picks does Alec Ogletree play with? More than Te'o.

We won't know until April '13 and April '14

Dee Dub
01-08-2013, 03:11 PM
A couple of scouts on Twitter are saying Te'o is very "Demeco Ryans" like. A great player, but no where near a top ten player.

I don't like ILB in the first much period, but Kuechly really turned it on the second half of the year for Carolina.

I'll take Minter in the 2nd/Late 1st over Te'o at this point. Minter proved he can play against this level of competition all season long.

Kevin Minter is playing with 3 maybe 5 1st round picks on the defense he plays with. Does that not make a difference?

BigRob
01-08-2013, 03:25 PM
Kevin Minter is playing with 3 maybe 5 1st round picks on the defense he plays with. Does that not make a difference?

Not saying it doesn't. But no one is advocating taking Minter in the top 10 picks of the draft.

Here the thing: They are not that far apart at all as players.

The one big difference? Minter played in the SEC. The level of competition was much better, but no one is touting him as a top ten pick.

They are not far apart as players and I would bet their measurables are pretty similar.

lloydroid
01-08-2013, 03:35 PM
Te'o in the 1st round?

With the way he's getting dominated by Alabama, we might be able to get him in the 2nd.

With the way he played, I don't know that we want him in the 2nd round. Seriously, he missed tackles all night long.

lloydroid
01-08-2013, 03:37 PM
Not saying it doesn't. But no one is advocating taking Minter in the top 10 picks of the draft.

Here the thing: They are not that far apart at all as players.

The one big difference? Minter played in the SEC. The level of competition was much better, but no one is touting him as a top ten pick.

They are not far apart as players and I would bet their measurables are pretty similar.

Te'o is overrated because he played for an undefeated ND team. No way would I spend ANY first round pick on him. He got punked all night last night.

Dee Dub
01-08-2013, 03:48 PM
Not saying it doesn't. But no one is advocating taking Minter in the top 10 picks of the draft.

Here the thing: They are not that far apart at all as players.

The one big difference? Minter played in the SEC. The level of competition was much better, but no one is touting him as a top ten pick.

They are not far apart as players and I would bet their measurables are pretty similar.


Yes I agree with this. I've been touting Minter since September. But to think that Kevin Minter isnt helped by having Mingo, Montgomery, Jenkins, Reid, Barrow, Bennie Logan, etc. is flat out not seeing the big picture.

Slapstick
01-08-2013, 03:52 PM
Please, everyone, beware passing judgment on a player due to the results of one game against "NFL level" competition...

That kind of thinking landed us Troy Edwards in the first round...

feltdizz
01-08-2013, 04:12 PM
I hope no one is passing judgement on Lacy, Teo or any player based on one game... but you have to be concerned when a highly touted player gets man handled like that and misses tackle after tackle.

I've seen enough of Teo to know he isn't top 10 or top 15 and anyone who gets him will have their hands full getting him ready for the next level.

Steelhere10
01-08-2013, 04:19 PM
Good article maybe best suited for a 4-3
http://burgh.us/jn9
I think bust is written in him according to friend who is a big Nd fan.

BigRob
01-08-2013, 04:19 PM
Yes I agree with this. I've been touting Minter since September. But to think that Kevin Minter isnt helped by having Mingo, Montgomery, Jenkins, Reid, Barrow, Bennie Logan, etc. is flat out not seeing the big picture.

Where did I say it didn't help Minter? Did you miss this part of my post?


Not saying it doesn't. But no one is advocating taking Minter in the top 10 picks of the draft.

Dee Dub
01-08-2013, 04:46 PM
Where did I say it didn't help Minter? Did you miss this part of my post?

Well then if it is helping him (to have maybe 3 fist round picks playing in front of him), then it would also help Te'o. And with this maybe that would show more of a separation between the two. ??????

BigRob
01-08-2013, 05:02 PM
Well then if it is helping him (to have maybe 3 fist round picks playing in front of him), then it would also help Te'o. And with this maybe that would show more of a separation between the two. ??????

Teo has potentially two first round picks playing in front of him in Nix and Tuitt. So what is the excuse again?

Who other than John Jenkins is going to be a first round pick for Georgia that plays in front of Ogletree?

Not much separation if any between Te'o, Minter, and Ogletree.

feltdizz
01-08-2013, 05:06 PM
I like Nix.... and if you look at Te'o's numbers the 3 previous years I don't think he has any INT's... one can say the DL is responsible for his success this year.

steelblood
01-08-2013, 05:08 PM
Yes I agree with this. I've been touting Minter since September. But to think that Kevin Minter isnt helped by having Mingo, Montgomery, Jenkins, Reid, Barrow, Bennie Logan, etc. is flat out not seeing the big picture.

Jenkins plays for Georgia, not LSU.

Te'o's line is a very talented 3-4 DL. The sophomores Nix and Tuitt are projected first round talents who had fantastic years (until this game). And, Kapron Lewis-Moore is as good as most of the Alabama and Georgia 3-4 DEs. This is probably the best 3-4 defensive line in college football (that includes Georgia and Alabama).

SS Laser
01-08-2013, 05:14 PM
Jenkins plays for Georgia, not LSU.

Te'o's line is a very talented 3-4 DL. The sophomores Nix and Tuitt are projected first round talents who had fantastic years (until this game). And, Kapron Lewis-Moore is as good as most of the Alabama and Georgia 3-4 DEs. This is probably the best 3-4 defensive line in college football (that includes Georgia and Alabama).

Well then the bama o-line shows what happens to a talented 3-4 defense. Makes a point for the guys here who want Warmack in the first.

Dee Dub
01-08-2013, 05:17 PM
Jenkins plays for Georgia, not LSU.

Te'o's line is a very talented 3-4 DL. The sophomores Nix and Tuitt are projected first round talents who had fantastic years (until this game). And, Kapron Lewis-Moore is as good as most of the Alabama and Georgia 3-4 DEs. This is probably the best 3-4 defensive line in college football (that includes Georgia and Alabama).

Right. We were discussing both Ogletree and Minter. I got them mixed up.

But you guys can say all you want about the potential of Notre Dame's front, but right now they arent first round picks. Next year?...possibly. Minter and Ogltree are playing with first round picks right now. Big difference.

BigRob
01-08-2013, 05:18 PM
Jenkins plays for Georgia, not LSU.



I know this, It was in relation to Ogletree. Thanks

Dee Dub
01-08-2013, 05:20 PM
Teo has potentially two first round picks playing in front of him in Nix and Tuitt. So what is the excuse again?

Who other than John Jenkins is going to be a first round pick for Georgia that plays in front of Ogletree?

Not much separation if any between Te'o, Minter, and Ogletree.

Have you ever heard of Jarvis Jones? The best defensive player in this coming draft? He plays in front of Ogletree. All be it off to the side but never the less still in that front for Georgia.

Nix and Tuitt are still a work in progress. They are not first round picks this year. Maybe next year.

BigRob
01-08-2013, 05:21 PM
Right. We were discussing both Ogletree and Minter. I got them mixed up.

But you guys can say all you want about the potential of Notre Dame's front, but right now they arent first round picks. Next year?...possibly. Minter and Ogltree are playing with first round picks right now. Big difference.

Didn't know the draft had already happened. Right now it is all based on projections. You can't claim they already playing with first rounders.

We are also talking about Defensive tackles that protect the ILB'ers. You could argue that NIX is every bit as good or better than Jenkins and any LSU DT.

This argument doesn't hold much water in reality.

You also can't dismiss the huge differences in the level of competition that Ogletree and Minter faced.

Notre Dame played at least 5 pretty terrible teams with limited talent. Of course they feasted on those offenses.

steelblood
01-08-2013, 05:22 PM
Right. We were discussing both Ogletree and Minter. I got them mixed up.

But you guys can say all you want about the potential of Notre Dame's front, but right now they arent first round picks. Next year?...possibly. Minter and Ogltree are playing with first round picks right now. Big difference.

I don't know who you were watching, but outside of the Alabama game, Tuitt and Nix had fantastic seasons. They were nothing short of dominant as 3-4 linemen. They had plenty to do with Te'o's success this season just like they had plenty to do with his failures last night.

I don't disagree with your point overall, but he has very good talent in front of him.

SS Laser
01-08-2013, 05:32 PM
Every college player we talk about this time of year is just projections. Many 1st rd picks will not be grat players. A few lower rd and UDFA will play very well and a couple will be great. 10 pages of beating a dead horse. A year from now we should all will see how Te'o plays in the NFL. Will he be over drafted? Maybe. Along with a long list of others.

Chadman
01-08-2013, 05:46 PM
Just putting this out there...

Has Te'o become 2013's "Massive Brilliance"?

Oviedo
01-08-2013, 05:53 PM
And how many high draft picks does Alec Ogletree play with? More than Te'o.

Alec Ogletree's last game he didn't have John Jenkins playing in front of him and he still looked dominant.

BigRob
01-08-2013, 06:21 PM
Have you ever heard of Jarvis Jones? The best defensive player in this coming draft? He plays in front of Ogletree. All be it off to the side but never the less still in that front for Georgia.

Nix and Tuitt are still a work in progress. They are not first round picks this year. Maybe next year.

Jarvis Jones clogs up the middle for Ogletree? Wow, your really reaching buddy.

Dee Dub
01-08-2013, 07:25 PM
Jarvis Jones clogs up the middle for Ogletree? Wow, your really reaching buddy.

No body said anything about clogging up the middle for him. I said he plays in front of him. Having the best defensive player in this draft playing outside LB off the edge for any ILB is a plus.

Dee Dub
01-08-2013, 07:35 PM
I like Nix.... and if you look at Te'o's numbers the 3 previous years I don't think he has any INT's... one can say the DL is responsible for his success this year.

This cracks me up Felt. I thought you said you watch a lot of Notre Dame football? Well if you have then you would know Te'o was used much differently the three previous years to this. Te'o played a lot more down hill prior to this year. Coming forward. This year he was used a lot more in pass coverage. You notice a decline in tackles, TFL's, sacks, etc. But this year more INT's and PD's than previous years. His cover skills are not great by any means but he did improve enough for them to use him differently this year. Two years ago he had 128 tackles, 13.5 TFL's, 5 sacks, 0 INT's, and 2 PD's. But this past season he had less tackles, less TFL's (more than half as many), and only 1.5 sacks. Yet he had 7 INT's and 11 PD's.


Now having said that, like I have been saying all along, if he were drafted to play ILB for the Steelers, playing next to Timmons, I would hope the Steelers would utilize him more for his strength..coming forward. Timmons would no doubt get the bulk of the coverage assignments of the too. And rightfully so, he is better at it.

BigRob
01-08-2013, 08:09 PM
No body said anything about clogging up the middle for him. I said he plays in front of him. Having the best defensive player in this draft playing outside LB off the edge for any ILB is a plus.

Different roles and different responsibilities. Notre Dame has plenty of good players on D.

Wanna put a wager on whether Te'o goes in the first 10 picks? Just a friendly wager for one of us to eat crow in a few months.

hawaiiansteel
01-08-2013, 08:57 PM
Walterfootball is a very knowledgeable and reputable draft site:

1(17) Pittsburgh Steelers: Manti Te'o, ILB, Notre Dame

I think this is a good spot for Manti Te'o. He was brutal in the national championship, but that shouldn't erase all of his other great tape. He's still the favorite to be the first inside linebacker off the board, and the 16-25 range seems right for him. Besides, this is the type of move the Steelers normally make. They often are able to snag talented prospects who fall to them later in the first round for whatever reason.

The Steelers have shown interest in first-round inside linebackers. They wanted Dont'a Hightower last April, but David DeCastro was just too good to pass up at No. 24 overall. Pittsburgh still has to find an inside linebacker because Larry Foote was awful this year. He finished near the top of dubious rankings like missed tackles and touchdowns allowed by players at his position.

Pick change; previously Barkevious Mingo, DE/OLB LSU

http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2013_1.php

feltdizz
01-08-2013, 09:20 PM
This cracks me up Felt. I thought you said you watch a lot of Notre Dame football? Well if you have then you would know Te'o was used much differently the three previous years to this. Te'o played a lot more down hill prior to this year. Coming forward. This year he was used a lot more in pass coverage. You notice a decline in tackles, TFL's, sacks, etc. But this year more INT's and PD's than previous years. His cover skills are not great by any means but he did improve enough for them to use him differently this year. Two years ago he had 128 tackles, 13.5 TFL's, 5 sacks, 0 INT's, and 2 PD's. But this past season he had less tackles, less TFL's (more than half as many), and only 1.5 sacks. Yet he had 7 INT's and 11 PD's.


Now having said that, like I have been saying all along, if he were drafted to play ILB for the Steelers, playing next to Timmons, I would hope the Steelers would utilize him more for his strength..coming forward. Timmons would no doubt get the bulk of the coverage assignments of the too. And rightfully so, he is better at it.

Te'o had 7 picks because the DL was getting a ton of pressure this year.... The difference between the DL this year vs the the last 3 is huge.

I heard they are calling Te'o "The Hawaiian Brian Boz"

feltdizz
01-08-2013, 09:22 PM
Walterfootball is a very knowledgeable and reputable draft site:

1(17) Pittsburgh Steelers: Manti Te'o, ILB, Notre Dame

I think this is a good spot for Manti Te'o. He was brutal in the national championship, but that shouldn't erase all of his other great tape. He's still the favorite to be the first inside linebacker off the board, and the 16-25 range seems right for him. Besides, this is the type of move the Steelers normally make. They often are able to snag talented prospects who fall to them later in the first round for whatever reason.

The Steelers have shown interest in first-round inside linebackers. They wanted Dont'a Hightower last April, but David DeCastro was just too good to pass up at No. 24 overall. Pittsburgh still has to find an inside linebacker because Larry Foote was awful this year. He finished near the top of dubious rankings like missed tackles and touchdowns allowed by players at his position.

Pick change; previously Barkevious Mingo, DE/OLB LSU

http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2013_1.php

Foote wasn't awful....

hawaiiansteel
01-08-2013, 09:25 PM
Foote wasn't awful....

I agree, I didn't think Larry Foote was awful this past season either. nevertheless, Foote did finish near the top of dubious rankings like missed tackles and touchdowns allowed by players at his position.

Dee Dub
01-08-2013, 09:44 PM
Wanna put a wager on whether Te'o goes in the first 10 picks? Just a friendly wager for one of us to eat crow in a few months.

Why would I do that? I have never said he would go in the top 10. All along I've said that there was a good possibility that the Steelers would have a chance to draft him even if it was as high as 11. And there were many who said we had no chance. Remember? I have said I wouldn't have a problem drafting him top 10 if I were a team that needed a LB. See the difference?

Dee Dub
01-08-2013, 09:48 PM
Walterfootball is a very knowledgeable and reputable draft site:

1(17) Pittsburgh Steelers: Manti Te'o, ILB, Notre Dame

I think this is a good spot for Manti Te'o. He was brutal in the national championship, but that shouldn't erase all of his other great tape. He's still the favorite to be the first inside linebacker off the board, and the 16-25 range seems right for him. Besides, this is the type of move the Steelers normally make. They often are able to snag talented prospects who fall to them later in the first round for whatever reason.

The Steelers have shown interest in first-round inside linebackers. They wanted Dont'a Hightower last April, but David DeCastro was just too good to pass up at No. 24 overall. Pittsburgh still has to find an inside linebacker because Larry Foote was awful this year. He finished near the top of dubious rankings like missed tackles and touchdowns allowed by players at his position.

Pick change; previously Barkevious Mingo, DE/OLB LSU

http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2013_1.php

I have been saying this about Larry Foote all year. But he gets tackles (mostly 7-9 yards deep into Steeler territory), and every one thinks he is ok. Missed tackles, TD's allowed, and tackles that nets the opponent 7-9 yards down the field are his specialty.

NorthCoast
01-08-2013, 09:53 PM
I have been saying this about Larry Foote all year. But he gets tackles (mostly 7-9 yards deep into Steeler territory), and every one thinks he is ok. Missed tackles, TD's allowed, and tackles that nets the opponent 7-9 yards down the field are his specialty.

More tackles for losses than Dwight Freeney...

Lebsteel
01-08-2013, 10:06 PM
That's quite possibly right. Chadman thought the same in the great "Timmons vs Poszluzny" debate when everyone was hammering on about how great Poz was going to be. Given where each is now- the Steelers got it right.

Not convinced the Steelers will be chasing an ILB that early, anyway..

Chad have you checked the stats...Timmons vs. Poz? I dont think the Steelers made the right pick...http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/10478/paul-posluszny

BigRob
01-08-2013, 11:06 PM
Why would I do that? I have never said he would go in the top 10. All along I've said that there was a good possibility that the Steelers would have a chance to draft him even if it was as high as 11. And there were many who said we had no chance. Remember? I have said I wouldn't have a problem drafting him top 10 if I were a team that needed a LB. See the difference?

Sure, sure. If that is the weak sauce you want to throw down.

BigRob
01-08-2013, 11:14 PM
Chad have you checked the stats...Timmons vs. Poz? I dont think the Steelers made the right pick...http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/10478/paul-posluszny

Based on what? How many seasons has this guy missed games due to injury? He is having another surgery for his torn labrum this offseason. This after knee and arm injuries.

You wouldn't be a PSU fan would you? :D

Chadman
01-08-2013, 11:41 PM
Chad have you checked the stats...Timmons vs. Poz? I dont think the Steelers made the right pick...http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/10478/paul-posluszny

Nothing there makes Chadman want Poz over Timmons. Poz certainly has greater tackle count numbers, but so far as 'impact plays', Timmons is all over Poz- 23 sacks vs 7 sacks, 11 FF vs 7 FF, 6 Fumble Recoveries vs 1 Fumble Recovery..

All that, and Timmons is 2 years younger. Without the medical history. Poz plays a different role to Timmons- that is for sure. But Poz would be playing the role that Farrior played so well, not the role Timmons has played. Guess it depends on what you look for...

Eddie Spaghetti
01-08-2013, 11:51 PM
timmons>poz

not even close, IMO.

Lebsteel
01-08-2013, 11:57 PM
Based on what? How many seasons has this guy missed games due to injury? He is having another surgery for his torn labrum this offseason. This after knee and arm injuries.

You wouldn't be a PSU fan would you? :D

are you inferring that being a Penn State fan would influence my judgement? Ha ha.... Ok maybe a little. Poz has only missed six games in the last five years...but still has 165 more tackles and more interceptions than LT. Poz is the leader type that our defense needs but I also like how LT played this year...much better than 2011. Poz isnt a superstar but sadly neither is LT.

Lebsteel
01-08-2013, 11:59 PM
timmons>poz

not even close, IMO.

Lasagna>Eddie imho
As Chad said above...depends on what you are looking for...they both have unique skills that make them very good LBs.

Eddie Spaghetti
01-09-2013, 12:05 AM
bowl of grits

BigRob
01-09-2013, 12:34 AM
are you inferring that being a Penn State fan would influence my judgement? Ha ha.... Ok maybe a little. Poz has only missed six games in the last five years...but still has 165 more tackles and more interceptions than LT. Poz is the leader type that our defense needs but I also like how LT played this year...much better than 2011. Poz isnt a superstar but sadly neither is LT.

They would be a great pair