PDA

View Full Version : Choose your weapon: Colon or Foster?



hawaiiansteel
01-03-2013, 12:31 AM
Choose your weapon: Colon or Foster

January 1st, 2013
Mark Kaboly | Tribune-Review

http://blog.triblive.com/steel-mill/files/2013/01/Ramon.jpeg

Steelers guard Ramon Foster is an unrestricted free agent.

The Steelers will have to make a decision whether or not they plan to sign unrestricted free agent guard Ramon Foster during the offseason.

Make no mistake about it, if Foster returns next year, Willie Colon won’t.

The Steelers would have to pay Foster starter’s money and assure him a starting spot for him not to test the free agent market in March, and to do that, they would likely have to release Colon — who has three years left on his 5-year, $29 million deal that he signed before training camp in 2011.

The decision just may come down to dependability.

Foster has started 30 consecutive games and 42 of the Steelers past 44 games including Super Bowl XLV despite getting shoved to the bench in each of the past three years — first by Trai Essex then Doug Legursky and finally David DeCastro.

Meanwhile, Colon has landed on injured reserve in each of the past three seasons with three different injuries (Achilles, triceps, knee). Colon has played only 11 of the Steelers’ 52 games in three years. However, when Colon was healthy this year, he was dominant and the run game flourished.

A decision needs to be made.

“I hope I am (with the Steelers) but i guess if the opportunity arises …” Foster said. “I am definitely open to whatever.”

Bottom line is Foster wants to be a starter and he wants paid, and he’s shown that he is deserving of both. And if you watched the NFL this year, many of teams would love to have a guy like Foster on their offensive line and especially for an affordable price.

How much would it cost to get a deal done with Foster?

Well, Buffalo signed Kraig Urbik, a former Steelers’ draft pick who Foster beat out in training camp in 2010, a couple week ago to a 4-year, $13.3 million with a $3.5 million signing bonus. That would probably enough to lock up Foster.

But in the end, Foster’s versatility may end up hurting him more than it helps him.

He can play both guard spots and both tackle spots as well. He was forced to play right tackle in the season finale against Cleveland. How many starting offensive line in the league of any note do you see flopping from position to position?

Mike Tomlin always boasts “the more you can do.”

Yeah, the more you can do, the less you get paid.

Foster hopes that’s not the case.

http://blog.triblive.com/steel-mill/2013/01/01/choose-your-weapon-colon-or-foster/

SteelerOfDeVille
01-03-2013, 02:20 AM
Colon will be cut... cap casualty, I'd say.

Eddie Spaghetti
01-03-2013, 06:13 AM
foster has done a nice job, though one of the "experts" here will never admit it.

I say keep him, another dollar spent on colon is a dollar wasted.

and forget taking another OG in the 1st. That's stupid.

supersteeler
01-03-2013, 07:56 AM
The article stated it may come down to dependability, and thats probably the case here. Colon was good in run blocking but he can't run block on the sideline so Foster gets the edge to stay.

8467thekraken
01-03-2013, 08:05 AM
Always liked Foster.

Works hard. Dependable. Seems to get a little better every year.


Oviedo will take anyone BUT Foster.
Sheesh...

flippy
01-03-2013, 09:43 AM
I like Foster at G about as much as I liked Colon at T. Foster is too tall to play G and I think it hurts his leverage. I like the guy, just think he's better suited to play RT. He's Max Starks tall.

I think the Steelers will keep Colon because he's good when healthy. And the savings of releasing him might not be worth it.

fezziwig
01-03-2013, 09:46 AM
It's nice that some of these guys are a jack of all trades but, you do need a master at their trades at times and I believe offensive line is one of those spots. Every position is one of those spots I suppose so, " I'd rather see a pro at every position and if need be, fill in for someone else but, not a second stringer trying to do the job of a first stringer. "
Obviously we don't get to have it all.
It's also my opinion something from the coaching to the head office is not doing something correctly and I'd say the coaching is at fault when it comes to our o-line. Somewhere down the line our guys are not being trained, taught, developed conditioned or used correctly. See, I blames all the o-line troubles on Arians and I think Haley was making up for it with his play calling and scheme. I think the injuries now/curently along with Bens injury placed things in a mix up at the moment. Beachum a low round draft pick didn't do too bad in my opinion and I give more credit to Haley than anyone else.
As for Colon, I never liked his input, performance or that he never sees himself as the problem. I'll never forget when that dumb fu(ker said after the Philly game a few years back when Ben got creamed, " we may have lost but over all, our o-line graded well. " What an idiot ! And to add on top of that, Arians did nothing to help with the play calling.

Haley has the job of getting these guys out of bad habits for one, having them learn a new system.

I wouldn't want Foster or Colon to be honest and I'd rather take my chances with a FA. Foster is okay for a backup, Colon has one or two good games a years so everyone gushes over him and forgets quickly just how lousy he is the other 13 games and 13 games my foot, it takes him four full season to get in 13 games the freakin china doll.

Oviedo
01-03-2013, 09:53 AM
The cap hit to get rid of Colon is probably prohibitive unless they do an injury settlement. Therefore I think Colon will be back, but I'd rather have another option.

I agree with Fezziwig that neither Colon or Foster is the answer we need.

fezziwig
01-03-2013, 10:12 AM
The cap hit will be rough on the Steelers as Oviedo stated. This is where I blame all the coaches and the front office. Are they not seeing what we see with Colon ? Seasons of penalty flags thrown, missed blocks, false starts, drive killing flags thrown, injury after injury. What the heck were they thinking when they had given him all that money ? Oh yeah, Ariians avowed that Colon was the best right tackle in the NFL. Well, the mole is gone so hopefully Haley can right the ship.

D Rock
01-03-2013, 10:28 AM
From "unnamed" sources found online...I believe cutting Colon saves ~1.2 million this next year if done before June 1. If they wait til after June 1, they save ~5.5 million this year with ~4.3 million in dead money on next years cap.

I say wait on Colon. If Chance Warmack is available at 1.17, and they like him enough, draft him. Then you have the freedom to cut Colon after June 1 and you already have a guy in his place who is likely better and cheaper even with his salary added on to Colon's dead money hits.


I would also try to sign either Foster or Legursky to a backup-level contract (more likely to be Legursky) as some insurance in case anything goes wrong or to prepare for the inevitable injuries that will come.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
01-03-2013, 11:55 AM
If you cut Colon...He only nets a little over 1 mil savings while creating 6.4 mil of dead money this year. As said above...You can spread it out if they wait until after June 1st. I personally would keep Foster over Colon because Colon can't stay on the field. The question is what will Foster command? My gut is Foster or Legursky will hit free agency unless they take a discount to remain. I'm sure the Steelers would like to keep Legursky & Foster but I don't know if it is possible. Since Foster is a better starter he should be the priority. Decastro has snapped & I'm sure Beachum will get some work there too. Legursky may be the odd man out if he is looking for big money. He could start at C for many teams and he knows it.

ikestops85
01-03-2013, 12:12 PM
I liked the way Foster teamed with Adams on the right side. The running game seemed to click with those two playing. Foster did seem to be lost playing on the left side in the guard position. He did seem to do okay as the right tackle.

I hated Colon as the right tackle. Not only did he seem over matched by many defensive ends he was always a penalty waiting to happen. His move to guard worked out a little better although he was still a penalty waiting to happen ... normally in a key situation.

Overall I would take Foster over Colon but the big thing is the cap hit. I believe getting rid of Colon leaves us with a lot of dead money. Foster wants starter money but I don't think we have a position for him to start in. So, just based on money, we keep Colon and let Foster go.

fezziwig
01-03-2013, 12:30 PM
You guys all have valid points and figure things out pretty logical. The reason why we are in this mess IMHO, Colon is not good enough, ever healthy enough to play any of the above mentioned positions. He was and is an over paid second stringer that can' stay healthy.. I've always said it and I will continue to say it, Colon has always been the biggest problem to the o-line, Bens health, the cap issue, the offenses progress.
Legursky in my opinion will get the better dollars to remain a Steeler but, I can also see them wanting to keep Foster because he's a better guard. And your right when you say, Legursky can start at center on many teams. He's normal, he'll want his big dollars if they are there. What's the chances the Steelers move Legurky to center, Pouncey to guard for the remainder of their careers with the Steelers ? I doubt it but I thought I'd ask.

Oviedo
01-03-2013, 12:34 PM
I liked the way Foster teamed with Adams on the right side. The running game seemed to click with those two playing. Foster did seem to be lost playing on the left side in the guard position. He did seem to do okay as the right tackle.

I hated Colon as the right tackle. Not only did he seem over matched by many defensive ends he was always a penalty waiting to happen. His move to guard worked out a little better although he was still a penalty waiting to happen ... normally in a key situation.

Overall I would take Foster over Colon but the big thing is the cap hit. I believe getting rid of Colon leaves us with a lot of dead money. Foster wants starter money but I don't think we have a position for him to start in. So, just based on money, we keep Colon and let Foster go.

We can't afford the Colon cap hit so he wins by default. Just the way it is.

fezziwig
01-03-2013, 12:49 PM
We can't afford the Colon cap hit so he wins by default. Just the way it is.


Sad but true

NorthCoast
01-03-2013, 07:29 PM
At least one website believes Foster will sign elsewhere if the Steelers don't offer a decent contract. Colon.... probably not. Recent injury history does him in.

pittpete
01-03-2013, 08:38 PM
Colons been out the last 3 years so hard to say.
Foster has been here the last 3 years and our OL still sucked.
What does that say?

Eddie Spaghetti
01-03-2013, 08:48 PM
Colons been out the last 3 years so hard to say.
Foster has been here the last 3 years and our OL still sucked.
What does that say?

its all fosters fault?

sorry, not buying that.

pfelix73
01-03-2013, 10:41 PM
I would like to think both of them will be back. Colon alone because of the cap hit, and Foster because he can compete with Colon at LG. Foster is a bit younger, so having a younger LG would be a good thing. I would imagine he will test the FA market. Maybe he won't find what he's looking for and come back.

As far as what someone above said about Foster and Adams playing well together on the right side- yea true, (except for some of the pass blocking Adams was trying to do) but you also have to keep in mind that Colon was pulling alot of times to the right and getting the RB some yardage.

steelz09
01-04-2013, 12:12 AM
I'd keep Foster over Colon. Hopefully, the Steelers FO can make that happen.

Oviedo
01-04-2013, 09:20 AM
Colons been out the last 3 years so hard to say.
Foster has been here the last 3 years and our OL still sucked.
What does that say?

That Foster is what he is--a solid back up player and spot starter but not a top line starter on any good OL in the NFL.

pittpete
01-04-2013, 10:19 AM
its all fosters fault?

sorry, not buying that.

Wow, thats what you took from my post?

Eddie Spaghetti
01-04-2013, 10:33 AM
Wow, thats what you took from my post?

wow.

maybe you could explain it better.

you say colon has been out and foster has played and the OL sucks. What does that say?

fezziwig
01-04-2013, 10:45 AM
That Foster is what he is--a solid back up player and spot starter but not a top line starter on any good OL in the NFL.

true stuff Oviedo


The Steelers have been running the program with glorified backups for a long time if you ask me. Starks is good, Pouncey is good and the rest are backups or just decent at best. I do believe that Haley has helped with these young guys, backup guys with his play calling. Having said that, even with Haleys play calling there comes a time when you need to be good and man up and Foster hasn't been able, Legursky isn't suited at guard, Colon is useless but, he does manage to have about 4 decent plays a season. Beachum was decent given his small time in there, Gilbert seems to be the next Colon in the making and Adams I believe will be one of those players that we keep believing he'll be better next season.

I have no faith in our o-line but I will say, if Haley remains I see him and his qick passing, or small ball making things better for the offense and allowing these guys to gain confidence and keep the defenses from charging at will as they did when Arians was here running our o-line and Ben into the ground.

Oviedo
01-04-2013, 10:56 AM
true stuff Oviedo


The Steelers have been running the program with glorified backups for a long time if you ask me. Starks is good, Pouncey is good and the rest are backups or just decent at best. I do believe that Haley has helped with these young guys, backup guys with his play calling. Having said that, even with Haleys play calling there comes a time when you need to be good and man up and Foster hasn't been able, Legursky isn't suited at guard, Colon is useless but, he does manage to have about 4 decent plays a season. Beachum was decent given his small time in there, Gilbert seems to be the next Colon in the making and Adams I believe will be one of those players that we keep believing he'll be better next season.

I have no faith in our o-line but I will say, if Haley remains I see him and his qick passing, or small ball making things better for the offense and allowing these guys to gain confidence and keep the defenses from charging at will as they did when Arians was here running our o-line and Ben into the ground.

Unfortunately we still need to add better talent to the OL. It starts with retaining Starks which is a 50/50 probability at best. We have to bring in a coach who can develop DeCastro, Adams and Gilbert specifically with technique improvements. I think Tunch Ilkin could do the job if he wants it because he was a tremendous technician.

As much as we have many needs, if Chace Warmack is available in Round 1 then I would pick him. It wouldn't solve all our OL problems but it would solidify the interior line of DeCastro-Pouncey-Warmack for the next 5-7 years. That would be a major building block in place to move forward from.

I know many will have their heads spin in place taking OL in Round 1 but until we fix the OL and gain offensive consistency we will never win another championship. Our defense can't win games anymore without the offense running at full speed. The defense is too inadequete at sacking the QB and forcing turnovers.

Eddie Spaghetti
01-04-2013, 11:02 AM
I see everyone fawning all over starks and I admit he is our best option at LT, but he is nowhere near an elite level and wouldn't start for over half of the teams in the NFL. But we don't hear the same outcry over his play.

why is that? Shouldn't every player be held to the same standard since we seem to need "elite" players at every position on the OL?

fezziwig
01-04-2013, 11:17 AM
No one is saying Starks is Gods gift to the NFL but, we can live with him until someone better comes along or developes. That's just my opinion

Oviedo
01-04-2013, 11:49 AM
I see everyone fawning all over starks and I admit he is our best option at LT, but he is nowhere near an elite level and wouldn't start for over half of the teams in the NFL. But we don't hear the same outcry over his play.

why is that? Shouldn't every player be held to the same standard since we seem to need "elite" players at every position on the OL?

Because even though he isn't "elite" he was the best OL we had this season playing the hardest position on the OL.

Eddie Spaghetti
01-04-2013, 01:09 PM
Because even though he isn't "elite" he was the best OL we had this season playing the hardest position on the OL.

so its a double standard for you when it comes to starks. We need probowlers at all the interior OL positions but we can accept mediocrity at the hardest position on the OL.

Got it.

Oviedo
01-04-2013, 01:23 PM
so its a double standard for you when it comes to starks. We need probowlers at all the interior OL positions but we can accept mediocrity at the hardest position on the OL.

Got it.

No Starks was not mediocre. He was actually pretty good. The definition of mediocre would be both our Guards and our Right Tackle. I don't have the stats but I don't recall a whole lot of sacks being given up by Starks even though he usually faced the opponents best pass rusher week in and week out.

I do remeber lots of inside pressure as the interior of our OL got pushed back into the QB and got no push in short yardage situations.

So there is no double standard. Starks was better than whoever we had at RT and he was better all season long than Foster and Colon even if you don't want to admit it.

papillon
01-04-2013, 01:25 PM
Unfortunately we still need to add better talent to the OL. It starts with retaining Starks which is a 50/50 probability at best. We have to bring in a coach who can develop DeCastro, Adams and Gilbert specifically with technique improvements. I think Tunch Ilkin could do the job if he wants it because he was a tremendous technician.

As much as we have many needs, if Chace Warmack is available in Round 1 then I would pick him. It wouldn't solve all our OL problems but it would solidify the interior line of DeCastro-Pouncey-Warmack for the next 5-7 years. That would be a major building block in place to move forward from.

I know many will have their heads spin in place taking OL in Round 1 but until we fix the OL and gain offensive consistency we will never win another championship. Our defense can't win games anymore without the offense running at full speed. The defense is too inadequete at sacking the QB and forcing turnovers.

Here's the issue with this line of thinking and taking Warmack. If your interior line is DeCastro-Pouncey-Warmack and lets assume the entire line is Adams-DeCastro-Pouncey-Warmack-Gilbert you already have 4 of the 5 on the roster. Do we really need to spend a first round pick on a top notch guard for the line to be successful? If you have 4 out of 5 players (2 first round picks and 2 second round picks) in place you should be good to go on the line, Foster isn't so horrible that he would cause that group to fail, IMHO.

Pappy

flippy
01-04-2013, 01:29 PM
so its a double standard for you when it comes to starks. We need probowlers at all the interior OL positions but we can accept mediocrity at the hardest position on the OL.

Got it.

I dont think you guys are giving Starks enough credit. The only bad game he's had in the last several years was against SF last year. He got crushed by Aldon Smith. Now everyone gets crushed by Aldon, so it doesn't seem like the worst thing in retrospect.

A couple years back (2009 I think) he went on a streak where he wasn't letting anyone touch Ben and he was going up against some of the best pass rushers in the league on a weekly basis.

I think fans kind of treat Starks like Wally. He got tagged that one year and signed for an enormous amount for a year, then Tomlin liked Colon better for some reason and everyone turned on Max. I don't think Max ever did anything wrong other than get a bigger contract than the Steelers intended and the fans have held it against him forever.

And then on top of it, Max is one of the nicest/gentlest guys on the planet. And I think people take him not being mean/nasty as him being soft/inadequate which just isn't true. He's still very good. In fact if he had a mean streak, I bet everyone would think he was one of the best tackles on the planet.

The niceness takes away his edge.

Oviedo
01-04-2013, 01:33 PM
I dont think you guys are giving Starks enough credit. The only bad game he's had in the last several years was against SF last year. He got crushed by Aldon Smith. Now everyone gets crushed by Aldon, so it doesn't seem like the worst thing in retrospect.

A couple years back (2009 I think) he went on a streak where he wasn't letting anyone touch Ben and he was going up against some of the best pass rushers in the league on a weekly basis.

I think fans kind of treat Starks like Wally. He got tagged that one year and signed for an enormous amount for a year, then Tomlin liked Colon better for some reason and everyone turned on Max. I don't think Max ever did anything wrong other than get a bigger contract than the Steelers intended and the fans have held it against him forever.

And then on top of it, Max is one of the nicest/gentlest guys on the planet. And I think people take him not being mean/nasty as him being soft/inadequate which just isn't true. He's still very good. In fact if he had a mean streak, I bet everyone would think he was one of the best tackles on the planet.

The niceness takes away his edge.

You are correct Flippy. Some don't want to give Starks credit because that would cause them to look elsewhere on the OL for the source of the problems. Most know that Pouncey and Starks are not the problems on the OL.

Eddie Spaghetti
01-04-2013, 01:36 PM
No Starks was not mediocre. He was actually pretty good. The definition of mediocre would be both our Guards and our Right Tackle. I don't have the stats but I don't recall a whole lot of sacks being given up by Starks even though he usually faced the opponents best pass rusher week in and week out.

I do remeber lots of inside pressure as the interior of our OL got pushed back into the QB and got no push in short yardage situations.

So there is no double standard. Starks was better than whoever we had at RT and he was better all season long than Foster and Colon even if you don't want to admit it.

starks is most certainly a mediocre LT. There is a reason he was sitting on the couch 2 seasons in a row waiting for the steelers to call. Injury non withstanding. Maybe you value him too highly because you feel the rest of our OL is crap.

also if so much pressure is coming from the inside, why don't you beat up on pouncey and colon the way you do foster? According to some reading I have done the RG spot is the hardest spot along the interior because they usually face the opposing teams best inside rusher while the LG usually has help.

we will never agree on this issue. The problems of the OL are not the sole responsibility of Ramon Foster.

Oviedo
01-04-2013, 01:53 PM
starks is most certainly a mediocre LT. There is a reason he was sitting on the couch 2 seasons in a row waiting for the steelers to call. Injury non withstanding. Maybe you value him too highly because you feel the rest of our OL is crap.

also if so much pressure is coming from the inside, why don't you beat up on pouncey and colon the way you do foster? According to some reading I have done the RG spot is the hardest spot along the interior because they usually face the opposing teams best inside rusher while the LG usually has help.

we will never agree on this issue. The problems of the OL are not the sole responsibility of Ramon Foster.

A mediocre LT is far more valuable than an average Guard. Our two Guards are both average at best.

The problems of the OL ARE NOT the sole responsibility of Foster as you say but he is also not the solution to the problem.

steelz09
01-04-2013, 03:32 PM
starks is most certainly a mediocre LT. There is a reason he was sitting on the couch 2 seasons in a row waiting for the steelers to call. Injury non withstanding. Maybe you value him too highly because you feel the rest of our OL is crap.

also if so much pressure is coming from the inside, why don't you beat up on pouncey and colon the way you do foster? According to some reading I have done the RG spot is the hardest spot along the interior because they usually face the opposing teams best inside rusher while the LG usually has help.

we will never agree on this issue. The problems of the OL are not the sole responsibility of Ramon Foster.

Starks is easily one of the most underrated players on the Steelers roster.

Oviedo
01-04-2013, 04:01 PM
Starks is easily one of the most underrated players on the Steelers roster.

..and has been for several years!

Eddie Spaghetti
01-04-2013, 05:12 PM
I like starks, we won 2 superbowls with him and he saved our season a couple of years ago.

doesn't change the fact he is an average LT. This is his 10th year in the league. His best days are behind him.

fezziwig
01-04-2013, 05:24 PM
Who was our left tackles prior to Starks ? Was it Marvel Smith and a couple of guys in between Smith and Starks ?

Eddie Spaghetti
01-04-2013, 05:30 PM
they tried to roll jonathon scott out there at one time. That sure didn't work.

I guess it was marvel before max. I hope they bring max back, as he is the best option.

steelz09
01-04-2013, 07:01 PM
they tried to roll jonathon scott out there at one time. That sure didn't work.

I guess it was marvel before max. I hope they bring max back, as he is the best option.

Yup.. and without Starks coming back, the Steelers would have had a horrible season last year. Half of Tomlin's pay should have went to Starks because he basically saved Tomlin's butt. Tomlin would really be in the hot seat if we went all last year with Scott at LT (likely a losing season), followed by this season.

Oviedo
01-05-2013, 12:17 AM
Yup.. and without Starks coming back, the Steelers would have had a horrible season last year. Half of Tomlin's pay should have went to Starks because he basically saved Tomlin's butt. Tomlin would really be in the hot seat if we went all last year with Scott at LT (likely a losing season), followed by this season.

I think the Scott fiasco may have been on Kugler. I'm am now of the opinion that Kugler was never what we thought he was. Who did he develop and really make better while he was here and he brought Scott with him from Buffalo.

Dee Dub
01-05-2013, 01:52 AM
I have an idea. Why not move Pouncey to guard (which many in the organization believe he could be great at), and draft C Khaled Holmes from USC? Could get Holmes in round 3. He's a solid center who has played actually at Guard as well.

But from the article, "Make no mistake about it, if Foster returns next year, Willie Colon won’t."

Thats good enough for me.

Shawn
01-05-2013, 02:07 AM
Foster was the most consistent OLman we had this year. Cut Colon.

Oviedo
01-05-2013, 04:40 PM
Foster was the most consistent OLman we had this year. Cut Colon.

Unlikely cutting Colon is economically feasible. Doing so would worsen an already terrible cap situation. Foster can leave with no economic impact. May not be the ideal situation but it is what it is.

steelz09
01-06-2013, 03:56 AM
Foster was the most consistent OLman we had this year. Cut Colon.

Starks was considering he's playing the most difficult position on the o-line.

Shawn
01-06-2013, 01:05 PM
Unlikely cutting Colon is economically feasible. Doing so would worsen an already terrible cap situation. Foster can leave with no economic impact. May not be the ideal situation but it is what it is.

Foster is younger and better than the oft injured Colon. The Steelers will make the smart decision and keep Foster.

Slapstick
01-06-2013, 01:31 PM
Foster is younger and healthier than Colon, but not better...

Eddie Spaghetti
01-06-2013, 01:48 PM
Foster is younger and healthier than Colon, but not better...

for the money he makes compared to colon he is.

Slapstick
01-06-2013, 02:05 PM
for the money he makes compared to colon he is.

We don't know what type of money he will command...

pfelix73
01-06-2013, 02:14 PM
I agree that Pouncey would make a great LG.

Shawn
01-06-2013, 06:05 PM
Foster is younger and healthier than Colon, but not better...

Really? Guess it depends on what you are looking at. As a pass protector I give Foster the nod.

Slapstick
01-06-2013, 07:03 PM
Really? Guess it depends on what you are looking at. As a pass protector I give Foster the nod.

I wouldn't say Foster is better at pass pro... IMHO, they are about the same...

Eddie Spaghetti
01-06-2013, 08:03 PM
I think foster is better in pass pro while colon is a better run blocker.

goes without saying that foster is much less penalized as well. Colon almost singlehandedly cost us the philly game, IIRC.

pittpete
01-06-2013, 08:11 PM
I would agree that Colon is a penalty machine, almost in the Kemo mode.
Severely overweight and not to much going on in the brain section.

Slapstick
01-06-2013, 08:25 PM
I truly have nothing against Foster, but he's no slouch in the penalty department himself...

Eddie Spaghetti
01-06-2013, 08:36 PM
I truly have nothing against Foster, but he's no slouch in the penalty department himself...

I don't remember foster being called for a lot of flags.

would be interested to see the numbers.

Slapstick
01-06-2013, 08:39 PM
People remember Colon's flags because they hate him...

BradshawsHairdresser
01-06-2013, 09:03 PM
Colon had 12 penalties on the season: 8 offensive holding, 3 false starts, 1 unsportsmanlike conduct, costing the team a total of 82 yards. Foster had 4 penalties: 2 offensive holding, 1 false start, and 1 unnecessary roughness, for a total of 13 yards. (Source = http://www.nflpenalties.com/team/pittsburgh-steelers?year=2012)

Colon led the team in penalties; the next-closest players were Ike Taylor and Keenan Lewis, who had 8 apiece, and Heath Miller, who had 5 (all offensive holding). Then it was Foster and VanDyke with 4 apiece.

8467thekraken
01-06-2013, 09:21 PM
I'm wondering if they could roll the dice with Beachum at LG.

Foster gets a better offer and leaves and Colon and Beachum duke it out for LG. I see young Beachum beating out the oft injured, soon-to-be 30 year old. I remember him doing a decent job when he had to play.

Perhaps Starks-Beachum-Pouncey-DDC-Adams with Colon and Gilbert on the pine where THEY belong and a later round draft pick, like a 5-7 pick.

Eddie Spaghetti
01-06-2013, 09:55 PM
Colon had 12 penalties on the season: 8 offensive holding, 3 false starts, 1 unsportsmanlike conduct, costing the team a total of 82 yards. Foster had 4 penalties: 2 offensive holding, 1 false start, and 1 unnecessary roughness, for a total of 13 yards. (Source = http://www.nflpenalties.com/team/pittsburgh-steelers?year=2012)

Colon led the team in penalties; the next-closest players were Ike Taylor and Keenan Lewis, who had 8 apiece, and Heath Miller, who had 5 (all offensive holding). Then it was Foster and VanDyke with 4 apiece.

thanks for posting.

I thought foster was pretty clean.

starks was excellent. No holding calls all year at LT. That's impressive.

pittpete
01-06-2013, 11:36 PM
Cant pay Colon all that $$$ to ride the pine IMO

fordfixer
01-07-2013, 12:15 AM
People remember Colon's flags because they hate him...
Or maybe there were more of them to remember:-)

squidkid
01-07-2013, 10:01 AM
sign foster
cut colon
offer legursky a real low contract

draft warmack in round 1

fezziwig
01-07-2013, 10:42 AM
I don't know how many flags were thrown due to Foster but I'm sure it's more than we would like and and a lot more than we remember. As for Colon vs Foster with flags being thrown, I think we are worn out with seeing Colon screw up, get banged up for so many years at top dollar pay. If Foster continues on the same track, there will be complaints about him too.

Neither of these guys are good and are just backup players trying to fill a role they can not handle. It's not their fault that the Steelers can't find anyone better than them to start on the offensive line. It's also not their fault that the front office over pays them, hangs a big contract on them.

With that, I will still continue to biitch about these guys, Foster, Colon, Gilbert. I've got news for you, Adams will be the next guy to drizzle on your dreams because he reminds me of every other backup on this team trying to be a starter and can't. Pouncey is good, Max is good or good enough and the rest are just backups or haven't had a chance to let us know what they are capable of. We will go in banged up , not up to the task and blind with the same guys next season.

The linebackers are suspect to nonexistent such as the d-line, the safeties are old, the corners with one getting old and the other you don't know if he will return, a runningback program that has no leader, receivers that are good one week, bad the other and special teams are poorly coached.
The problems fall upon many.

Giving big cntracts to old player, guys that continue to get injured, guys not worth the coin.

Having so much success that, our draft rounds are not gathering quality players.

Ben is not unboard in my opinion because Rooney had enough of Ben & Arians butt munching ways.

Tomlin has never placed his stamp or identity to these teams and it just seem like a free for all with the assistant coaching and or players.

Tomlin teams seem to have no discipline or the fundemental playing skills.

supersteeler
01-07-2013, 11:27 AM
If the Steelers make a foolish mistake by releasing Starks then we're in for a 2013 season like this one. Pouncey and Starks were our best O-linemen, you don't let good LT go especially when you have an offense like we do. I'm affraid were in a catch 22 for 2013, this team has too many issues to regain its championship form, unless we hit it in the draft.
You cut starks, your making this offense worse as Ben won't see the end of the 2013 season. The reality is 2010 was our window when we went to the SB, but lost to the pack. I hate to say this but in my heart I'm always optimistic our Steelers will be good, oh we'll be a competitive team, but will that be enough to make the post season?
On a positive note if you want to call it positive, we lost 5 games by 3 points, just win two out of five and we would of played in the post season. Thats what we can hope for, winning those close games next year. To be honest, I don't have the same confidense as in the past, I actually thought we

could make a run this year at the beginning of the season and we finish with a disappointing 8-8 record.

As I reflect, that 2010 season was our opportunity to hoist #7, we had momentum and could of scored until Mendy had that fumble against Green Bay, now that will be just a memory. The only expectation I have for the new season is improvenment, nothing more.

pfelix73
01-07-2013, 11:38 AM
IF we just would've beat Cincy in Pitt, we would've made the playoffs..

pfelix73
01-07-2013, 11:39 AM
And put me down as NOT in favor of drafting another OL in the 1st round. Take one later. Maybe even a Center.

Hell, you all have low expectations. Mine is going to the Super Bowl.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
01-07-2013, 12:13 PM
Who was our left tackles prior to Starks ? Was it Marvel Smith and a couple of guys in between Smith and Starks ?

We had Marvel at LT and Starks at RT. Then Marvel was gone and Starks slid to the left side. The same way that Smith started his career on the right side while waiting for Wayne Gandy to depart.

And to echo what several have said already. Max Starks has been the most underappreciated Steeler for a good part of his career. I have said it for years, and the team could have saved itself a lot of money and aggrivation years ago if they had signed him to a long term contract instead of tagging him two years in a row. I also believe - and I said it back then too - that Tomlin always had a problem of some sort with Max, and he messed up when he replaced him with Willie Colon when he first arrived.

Oviedo
01-07-2013, 01:21 PM
If the Steelers make a foolish mistake by releasing Starks then we're in for a 2013 season like this one. Pouncey and Starks were our best O-linemen, you don't let good LT go especially when you have an offense like we do. I'm affraid were in a catch 22 for 2013, this team has too many issues to regain its championship form, unless we hit it in the draft.
You cut starks, your making this offense worse as Ben won't see the end of the 2013 season. The reality is 2010 was our window when we went to the SB, but lost to the pack. I hate to say this but in my heart I'm always optimistic our Steelers will be good, oh we'll be a competitive team, but will that be enough to make the post season?
On a positive note if you want to call it positive, we lost 5 games by 3 points, just win two out of five and we would of played in the post season. Thats what we can hope for, winning those close games next year. To be honest, I don't have the same confidense as in the past, I actually thought we

could make a run this year at the beginning of the season and we finish with a disappointing 8-8 record.

As I reflect, that 2010 season was our opportunity to hoist #7, we had momentum and could of scored until Mendy had that fumble against Green Bay, now that will be just a memory. The only expectation I have for the new season is improvenment, nothing more.

If we don't add more talent to the OL and keep Starks expect 2013 to be another play-off miss.

BradshawsHairdresser
01-07-2013, 01:43 PM
I don't know how many flags were thrown due to Foster but I'm sure it's more than we would like and and a lot more than we remember.

4 flags on the season (http://www.nflpenalties.com). Colon had 12. See above post.

hawaiiansteel
01-07-2013, 01:58 PM
4 flags on the season (http://www.nflpenalties.com). Colon had 12. See above post.

and that's with Colon only playing in 11 games this season...:HeadBanger