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Shawn
12-26-2012, 07:00 AM
Wish i could claim this...but sent to me by Dutch.

"Well coached" teams don't beat themselves. They also force their opponents into mistakes of their own.


Cowher's turnover differential since 1992


1992 +11
93 +11
94 +14
95 0
96 +7
97 +1
98 -3
99 +3
00 +12
01 +7
02 0
03 -3
04 +11
05 +7
06 -8
Cowher +70 (+44 first 6 years)

Now lets take a look at Tomlin's heavily talented football team.


Tomlin's turnover differential since 2007
07 +3
08 +4
09 -3
10 +17
11 -13
12 -14
Tomlin -6

Belichick's turnover differential since 2002
02 +5
03 +17
04 +9
05 -5
06 +5
07 +16
08 +1
09 +6
10 +28
11 +17
12 +22
Belichick +121 in turnover differential!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--------------------------------------------------
Tomlin's team ranking in penalty yards per game!

12 #25
11 #22
10 #25
09 #16
08 #29
07 #7
Average ranking in penalty yards per game under Tomlin = 20th worst


Cowher's penalty yards per game
06 #5
05 #8
04 #5
---------------------------------

Tomlin's teams 82 more penalties since 2007 than Belichick's teams.

Prowler
12-26-2012, 07:18 AM
I never did like Tomlin from day one but I have chosen from the beginning to stay quiet. I did not need the hassle of being the only person bashing Tomlin when there were no stats to back up my thoughts. I'm tired of Tomlin standing on the sidelines looking like an idiot and doing nothing when the team plays like garbage. Cowher could motivate, Tomlin cannot.

Steelhere10
12-26-2012, 07:26 AM
Don't just take one side of the story
What about wins their first7 seasons or
Playoffs wins or
12 win season or
SB wins their first7 or
Losing seasons
See my point is that you can take any stats and turn them in the favor that you deem necessary.

Steelhere10
12-26-2012, 07:30 AM
Also Cowher approach was to play not to lose and guess what he did but guess how many Home AFC championship games that cost him. But how fast do we forget.

Shawn
12-26-2012, 07:40 AM
Don't just take one side of the story
What about wins their first7 seasons or
Playoffs wins or
12 win season or
SB wins their first7 or
Losing seasons
See my point is that you can take any stats and turn them in the favor that you deem necessary.

Some stats do matter and do indicate a well or poorly coached team. I am concerned by what I am seeing. I mean Tomlin fell into a real sweet situation...franchise QB, elite D, great organization. I think an average coach could have coached these guys to several 12 win seasons.

Steelhere10
12-26-2012, 07:43 AM
And please don't mention talent ,when Cowher had the best talent in most of football for at least his first8 years with the exception at Qb. He even had better ol, dl, lb and secondary and great rb and again how many SB wins?

Shawn
12-26-2012, 07:46 AM
And please don't mention talent ,when Cowher had the best talent in most of football for at least his first8 years with the exception at Qb. He even had better ol, dl, lb and secondary and great rb and again how many SB wins?

I think sticking to some relevant questions would be prudent. Why is Tomlins teams struggling with penalties, and turnovers? Is this just bad luck, or does coaching have something to do with that?

Steelhere10
12-26-2012, 08:34 AM
I think the penalties could be somewhat coaching technique/drafting but at the same time the players must be held accountable.
As far as the turnovers the style of defense DL run as far as not getting beat deep, keep the player in front of you mentality you are not going to get many because its more of a safe defense instead of forcing the issue type D. And you can't hold the ball for the players they are out there playing. So I think the penalty part is related to coaching but the other is style of play and more on the players themselves.

Steelhere10
12-26-2012, 09:24 AM
However with that being said I think Tomlin had a terrible year and most was not his in game decisions.
Benching of Mendy , the hiring of Haley and the firing of the St coach cost us at least two games in my opinion.

NorthCoast
12-26-2012, 09:25 AM
Don't just take one side of the story
What about wins their first7 seasons or
Playoffs wins or
12 win season or
SB wins their first7 or
Losing seasons
See my point is that you can take any stats and turn them in the favor that you deem necessary.

While I somewhat I agree with your point, one has to wonder just how dominant the Steelers could have been had they had a better turnover differential.

I also wonder if the change to a pass oriented offense has had a big influence. think about the fact that RBs don't get as many carries, so when they do they are not as mentally prepared for the hits and jarring on the ball. The WRs, while fast, just don't seem to have the strongest or best hands. Maybe the pass offense takes more chances than a Bettis-led team?...

However, facts are facts. Teams that do lousy taking care of the ball, don't usually fair too well.

BURGH86STEEL
12-26-2012, 09:27 AM
Not considering the injuries, the Steelers talent is on par with all the teams in the league. It's not that the Steelers have all the talent and the other teams are trotting out scrubs. According to many fans complaints on a weekly basis this team really isn't heavily talented. Coaches can't help teams win games if players make mistakes on the field. Players are responsible for giving or taking the ball away. When the QB plays like a 3rd string QB then it's obvious the team is going to struggle offensively. Gotta be able to score points to win games.

flippy
12-26-2012, 10:03 AM
These stats don't look so good for Tomlin.

feltdizz
12-26-2012, 10:19 AM
I agree with you flippy... but the penalties need to be put in perspective. We have a lot of unnecessarry roughness bull#%## flags. The last 2 years show how bad our ball control has been...

Gotta blame young money and Ben for most of our TO's.... and remember, we had 8 TO's in one game. It wasn't our year thus year but I don't think its a problem that can't be fixed. If we have another penalty, TO fest next year then Tomlin should be on the hot seat.

SidSmythe
12-26-2012, 10:27 AM
Looks like Mike Tomlin pulled on the Steeler Nation what Barack Obama did on the entire Nation??? :HeadBanger

SidSmythe
12-26-2012, 10:29 AM
Just think out of those STATS. Cowher did that without a Franchise QB for the most part.

Steelhere10
12-26-2012, 11:12 AM
And the decision to release Saunders over Pope and Paulson was also horrible.

flippy
12-26-2012, 11:15 AM
Looks like Mike Tomlin pulled on the Steeler Nation what Barack Obama did on the entire Nation??? :HeadBanger

And we've become as ridiculous as Fox News on this board :)

Steelhere10
12-26-2012, 11:26 AM
And we've become as ridiculous as Fox News on this board :)
I agree it's ridiculous. But coming from this poster doesn't surprise me. I put him on my ignore list long ago for following like a dog in heat, the only reason I saw this post is because you quoted what he had to say and yet he still follow me like a dog ,although everything he say is highlighted in yellow and therefore I can't read what he post.

flippy
12-26-2012, 11:35 AM
Looks like Mike Tomlin pulled on the Steeler Nation what Barack Obama did on the entire Nation??? :HeadBanger

The Steelers could help Tomlin out here, by suggesting they may hire someone far less competent like Haley. Steeler fans will fall in love with Tomlin all over. We wont go off the SuperBowl cliff. And we'll get some catchy slogan like Onward.

Find Tomlin his Romney, or as Joey Porter would say, his Huckleberry.

Flasteel
12-26-2012, 11:46 AM
Wish i could claim this...but sent to me by Dutch.

"Well coached" teams don't beat themselves. They also force their opponents into mistakes of their own.


Cowher's turnover differential since 1992


1992 +11
93 +11
94 +14
95 0
96 +7
97 +1
98 -3
99 +3
00 +12
01 +7
02 0
03 -3
04 +11
05 +7
06 -8
Cowher +70 (+44 first 6 years)

Now lets take a look at Tomlin's heavily talented football team.


Tomlin's turnover differential since 2007
07 +3
08 +4
09 -3
10 +17
11 -13
12 -14
Tomlin -6

Belichick's turnover differential since 2002
02 +5
03 +17
04 +9
05 -5
06 +5
07 +16
08 +1
09 +6
10 +28
11 +17
12 +22
Belichick +121 in turnover differential!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--------------------------------------------------
Tomlin's team ranking in penalty yards per game!

12 #25
11 #22
10 #25
09 #16
08 #29
07 #7
Average ranking in penalty yards per game under Tomlin = 20th worst


Cowher's penalty yards per game
06 #5
05 #8
04 #5
---------------------------------

Tomlin's teams 82 more penalties since 2007 than Belichick's teams.

Wow...it's like MSM posting here, but without all the douchebaggery. I can't believe it's not butter! :D

Tell your boy Wydo to correlate the number of rushing attempts with the turnover ratio. Isn't he the one who is always hating on the Yinzer Nation for their affinity towards the run? Look at '95 with O'Donnell; the Maddox years of '02 & '03, or when Ben started chucking it all over the place; then compare that to the years where we featured Barry Foster and the Bus. You throw more and you get more picks (unless you are Tom Brady, as MSG so adroitly pointed out).

Another contributing factor that I immediately recognize is the pass rush. Quite a few of those positive seasons came with Greene & Lloyd, Porter & Gildon, or Harrison & Woodley rushing the quarterback. The past 2 seasons, when either Woodley or Harrison was MIA, our pass rush and TO margin have been particularly shameful.

Where are the penalty yards for Belichick? Maybe the increase in penalties has something to do with the emphasis on player safety and us being the poster children for violating that movement?

Maybe it actually is a sign that Tomlin is a horrible coach?

Maybe it is also a sign of the collapse of the Steeler Nation as predicted by the Ancient Mayans?

Maybe it's just Wydo trying to use any stats he can to twist and support his own agenda. I wonder if he's ever done that before?:confused:

Thanks for posting Smartmonies' thoughts and breaking me out of my Steeler-induced catatonic state Shawn...you're the best! :D

Jooser
12-26-2012, 11:47 AM
Cowher 2 SB appearances: 1 win, 1 loss. Tomlin: Same. The difference, Cowher built his teams himself and it took time to develop those teams... Tomlin, OTOH, inherited a very solid Cowher-built team as well as some damn good assistant coaches. The thing that disturbs me is the more control and influence I see Tomlin assert each season, the worse the team seems to perform. That bothers me more than reading any stat line. I sat down with my dad last Sunday to watch the only game we'd watched together all season and he looked at me before the game started and said it's probably going to be the same thing today: they play well enough to keep you interested and then find a way to lose it in the final minute. Wow, dad's not Nostradamus, but he nailed last Sunday's game for sure. I can't remember when the last time we came out and actually dominated another team and blew them out. Those performances are so rare these days. I suppose time will tell, but listening to Mike and Mike on Monday morning, they claimed a source inside the FO who says there is about to be a big house cleaning project in Pittsburgh this offseason. We'll see what happens.

steelfin
12-26-2012, 11:54 AM
I have been a Tomlin supporter...but the stats provided in the article are quite interesting...

It is hard to argue the success that the Pats have had season after season....With lesser talent at the WR and RB positions....

Steelhere10
12-26-2012, 11:55 AM
I'm sorry but Cowher inherited Noll team, so try that again!

JB13
12-26-2012, 12:00 PM
Wish i could claim this...but sent to me by Dutch.

"Well coached" teams don't beat themselves. They also force their opponents into mistakes of their own.


Cowher's turnover differential since 1992


1992 +11
93 +11
94 +14
95 0
96 +7
97 +1
98 -3
99 +3
00 +12
01 +7
02 0
03 -3
04 +11
05 +7
06 -8
Cowher +70 (+44 first 6 years)

Now lets take a look at Tomlin's heavily talented football team.


Tomlin's turnover differential since 2007
07 +3
08 +4
09 -3
10 +17
11 -13
12 -14
Tomlin -6

Belichick's turnover differential since 2002
02 +5
03 +17
04 +9
05 -5
06 +5
07 +16
08 +1
09 +6
10 +28
11 +17
12 +22
Belichick +121 in turnover differential!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--------------------------------------------------
Tomlin's team ranking in penalty yards per game!

12 #25
11 #22
10 #25
09 #16
08 #29
07 #7
Average ranking in penalty yards per game under Tomlin = 20th worst


Cowher's penalty yards per game
06 #5
05 #8
04 #5
---------------------------------

Tomlin's teams 82 more penalties since 2007 than Belichick's teams.

These are great illustrations of the problems I have with Tomlin. You're absolutely right - Belichick's teams don't beat themselves and have an uncanny ability to force turnovers. If Belichick doesn't have premiere pass rushers, which he really hasn't had in NE, he figures out ways for his existing personnel to succeed. Tomlin doesn't do that. Cowher, by and large, did that. Players feared Cowher, players fear Belichick. With Tomlin, there seems to be a disconnect between what he says and what people do in response. He's too soft of a coach and the more time he's had as the head coach, the more obvious it is. If you are a premiere team in the NFL, you can't have a -6 turnover differential over a six year period. The Steelers are sleepwalking and Tomlin isn't the guy to make them stand up and take notice. He has to go.

fezziwig
12-26-2012, 12:04 PM
I've always said this and I truly believe this when I say once more, " had Tomlin not taken over the team when he did, we wouldn't have made it or won our last Super Bowl. " Cowher would have stuck with his pets, made no improvements and probably by then, Cowher and Ben would have been at each other. Maybe not between Cowher and Ben but the first part I feel is real.

I likeTomlin and he seems like someone I would be friends with or in other words, he reminds me of my choice or circle of friends that I have. I think he delegates too much or allows the assistant coaches to much lead and he needs to put his foot down more than he does. Does Tomlin even suggest any of the play calling ? I know Cowher would at times. Cowher did seem to make his players more accountable than Tomlin seems to but, who's to say Tomlin doesn't do it in a more private time ?

Yep, the lack of turnovers and flags thrown are Tomlins big issues and that he hasn't made enough coaching changes or quick enough coaching changes. I'm not saying Cowher would or wouldn't have fired Arians sooner but, you can bet Cowher would impress upon Arians what he expected out of a Steelers offense. He wouldn't have allowed the buddy, buddy system affect the play calling that Arians and Ben had.


Either Tomlin is more aggressive than Cowher or not as smart as Cowher with some of his play calling. With everything being said, if we have the turnovers going against us next season and the lack of disicpline with these players as it seems going on next season, Tomlin would have worn his welcome out with me. Oh yeah, if we lose the opener next season, I'll probably change my name to, " Fire Tomlin Now " That's another sign of a poorly coached or prepared team.

NorthCoast
12-26-2012, 12:37 PM
I've always said this and I truly believe this when I say once more, " had Tomlin not taken over the team when he did, we wouldn't have made it or won our last Super Bowl. " Cowher would have stuck with his pets, made no improvements and probably by then, Cowher and Ben would have been at each other. Maybe not between Cowher and Ben but the first part I feel is real.

I likeTomlin and he seems like someone I would be friends with or in other words, he reminds me of my choice or circle of friends that I have. I think he delegates too much or allows the assistant coaches to much lead and he needs to put his foot down more than he does. Does Tomlin even suggest any of the play calling ? I know Cowher would at times. Cowher did seem to make his players more accountable than Tomlin seems to but, who's to say Tomlin doesn't do it in a more private time ?

Yep, the lack of turnovers and flags thrown are Tomlins big issues and that he hasn't made enough coaching changes or quick enough coaching changes. I'm not saying Cowher would or wouldn't have fired Arians sooner but, you can bet Cowher would impress upon Arians what he expected out of a Steelers offense. He wouldn't have allowed the buddy, buddy system affect the play calling that Arians and Ben had.


Either Tomlin is more aggressive than Cowher or not as smart as Cowher with some of his play calling. With everything being said, if we have the turnovers going against us next season and the lack of disicpline with these players as it seems going on next season, Tomlin would have worn his welcome out with me. Oh yeah, if we lose the opener next season, I'll probably change my name to, " Fire Tomlin Now " That's another sign of a poorly coached or prepared team.

Looking behind the numbers the answer becomes clear. The Cowher era was no more special taking care of the ball than the Tomlin era. In fact, Cowher's last season the Steelers were almost at the bottom of the pile in giveaways. What is interesting is that Cowher teams, for whatever reason, always had a ying and yang on giveaways/takeaways. In seasons where the team gave it away a ton, 2002 for example (28th), they were very good at takeaways. What was special about the 2002 defense? Porter, Gildon, K Bell, Farrior, A Smith, a young Hampton. The secondary? nothing special other than Lee Flowers.


The Steelers needed the defense to be much more aggressive in going after the ball this season and it didn't happen. Bottomline, fix the lines and this team will be a consistent winner again.

Oviedo
12-26-2012, 12:40 PM
Cowher 2 SB appearances: 1 win, 1 loss. Tomlin: Same. The difference, Cowher built his teams himself and it took time to develop those teams... Tomlin, OTOH, inherited a very solid Cowher-built team as well as some damn good assistant coaches. The thing that disturbs me is the more control and influence I see Tomlin assert each season, the worse the team seems to perform. That bothers me more than reading any stat line. I sat down with my dad last Sunday to watch the only game we'd watched together all season and he looked at me before the game started and said it's probably going to be the same thing today: they play well enough to keep you interested and then find a way to lose it in the final minute. Wow, dad's not Nostradamus, but he nailed last Sunday's game for sure. I can't remember when the last time we came out and actually dominated another team and blew them out. Those performances are so rare these days. I suppose time will tell, but listening to Mike and Mike on Monday morning, they claimed a source inside the FO who says there is about to be a big house cleaning project in Pittsburgh this offseason. We'll see what happens.

Cowher inherited Noll's players which took him to his first Super Bowl and then took another decade to get back. Along the way he coached the team to 3 sub-.500 records.

Oviedo
12-26-2012, 12:42 PM
I've always said this and I truly believe this when I say once more, " had Tomlin not taken over the team when he did, we wouldn't have made it or won our last Super Bowl. " Cowher would have stuck with his pets, made no improvements and probably by then, Cowher and Ben would have been at each other. Maybe not between Cowher and Ben but the first part I feel is real.

I likeTomlin and he seems like someone I would be friends with or in other words, he reminds me of my choice or circle of friends that I have. I think he delegates too much or allows the assistant coaches to much lead and he needs to put his foot down more than he does. Does Tomlin even suggest any of the play calling ? I know Cowher would at times. Cowher did seem to make his players more accountable than Tomlin seems to but, who's to say Tomlin doesn't do it in a more private time ?

Yep, the lack of turnovers and flags thrown are Tomlins big issues and that he hasn't made enough coaching changes or quick enough coaching changes. I'm not saying Cowher would or wouldn't have fired Arians sooner but, you can bet Cowher would impress upon Arians what he expected out of a Steelers offense. He wouldn't have allowed the buddy, buddy system affect the play calling that Arians and Ben had.


Either Tomlin is more aggressive than Cowher or not as smart as Cowher with some of his play calling. With everything being said, if we have the turnovers going against us next season and the lack of disicpline with these players as it seems going on next season, Tomlin would have worn his welcome out with me. Oh yeah, if we lose the opener next season, I'll probably change my name to, " Fire Tomlin Now " That's another sign of a poorly coached or prepared team.

We have a 2-3 year trend of decreasing sacks and INTs that say we won't get the turnover thing going in our favor is we just run out the same defense again.

Mister Pittsburgh
12-26-2012, 12:53 PM
I'm sorry but Cowher inherited Noll team, so try that again!
Horrible, horrible comparison. Cowher didn't take over a Noll team in 1978. Cowher took over after a decade of losing/ mediocrity. Then through his drafting alongside Colbert he built a winner. Now that those draft picks are old or gone and Tomlin has to replace those players we are seeing some dreadful play.Tomlintook over a team with one shaky area, offensive line. We still have a shaky offensive line and more.

Jooser
12-26-2012, 02:30 PM
Horrible, horrible comparison. Cowher didn't take over a Noll team in 1978. Cowher took over after a decade of losing/ mediocrity. Then through his drafting alongside Colbert he built a winner. Now that those draft picks are old or gone and Tomlin has to replace those players we are seeing some dreadful play.Tomlintook over a team with one shaky area, offensive line. We still have a shaky offensive line and more.

Exactly my point. We were in the depths of suckatude when Cowher took over Noll's players. He turned things around and sat us back upright.

Steelhere10
12-26-2012, 02:48 PM
Cowher received
Woodson
Lake
Nickerson
Loyld
Dawson just to name a few changed to a different scheme that the league wasn't ready for and still couldn't win the Big One. But by compassion Cowher inherited more Pro Bowlers than Tomlin ever did. Noll was way past his time in the NFL but as far as talent its no comparison who got the best of the deal.

DukieBoy
12-26-2012, 02:48 PM
This team seems to lack discipline,attention to detail (technique such as carrying the ball high and tight, tackling as it appeared in the last few games at least), some game smarts (dumping off the ball rather than taking sacks, stupid penalties like we saw all year on STs), and physical fitness (all the big overweight OLs who get off-balance to easily for bull-rushers and can't keep themselves in front of speed rushers, get hurt too much, fall on their teammates, and probably lack stamina late in games so that our offense is less-effective when the game is on the line). I think coaching has alot to do with much of this. So does player commitment.

I hope the team leaders read this board and this thread. Yeah, we may be spoiled fans, but when I see a team play down to inferior competition and hear that some of them say "We're the Steelers" as if to say we are too good to lose, I think we may have some spoiled players, too.

We were a handful of plays away from being 12 - 4 again this year. We could have been better than that record too.

Mister Pittsburgh
12-26-2012, 02:53 PM
Exactly my point. We were in the depths of suckatude when Cowher took over Noll's players. He turned things around and sat us back upright.

Maybe we should create a co-GM position and make Cowher our co-GM :Beer

Sugar
12-26-2012, 03:44 PM
Exactly my point. We were in the depths of suckatude when Cowher took over Noll's players. He turned things around and sat us back upright.
Tomlin took over an 8-8 team and built them back into a SB force. It could be argued that he got more out of the same players. Also, many here are putting the draft picks on Tomlin for some reason. He is not the GM.

At the out-laws for Christmas yesterday my wife's family was marveling at Steeler fans that wan't Tomlin run out of town after one poor season. Fortunately, the Rooney's are smarter than that. Hopefully, they'll keep their noses out of things and let the team heal and correct.

lloydroid
12-26-2012, 04:18 PM
Tomlin took over an 8-8 team and built them back into a SB force. It could be argued that he got more out of the same players. Also, many here are putting the draft picks on Tomlin for some reason. He is not the GM.

At the out-laws for Christmas yesterday my wife's family was marveling at Steeler fans that wan't Tomlin run out of town after one poor season. Fortunately, the Rooney's are smarter than that. Hopefully, they'll keep their noses out of things and let the team heal and correct.

Yea, Tomlin took over an 8-8 team that was just 1 year removed from winning the SB. And before we forget, Cowher was a lame duck coach - and he, and everyone else - knew that. You know how people who know they are leaving a job do their job? There is no question Cowher was on cruise control his last year, and that, plus having just won it all, made that team way worse record wise than their talent was.

Tomlin inherited:

Ben - franchise QB
Parker - ProBowler
Ward - PB
Holmes - PB
Miller
Faneca - PB
Marvel Smith
Ryan Clark
Polamalu - PB
Harrison - PB
Ike Taylor
Farrior - PB
Hamtpon - PB
Aaron Smith
Keisel
Townsend

Starting with a franchise QB on down, Tomlin took over a loaded team. Cowher inherited a good amount of decent players - some awesome, such as Woodson, Lake and Lloyd, - but did he really get gifted more talent than Tomlin? Just having a franchise QB alone tells me Tomlin started with the better team. For cripes sake, they were one year removed from winning it all! Cowher took over a team with a LOSING record and O'Donnell as the QB. Good luck winning with that.

Sugar
12-26-2012, 04:26 PM
Yea, Tomlin took over an 8-8 team that was just 1 year removed from winning the SB. And before we forget, Cowher was a lame duck coach - and he, and everyone else - knew that. You know how people who know they are leaving a job do their job? There is no question Cowher was on cruise control his last year, and that, plus having just won it all, made that team way worse record wise than their talent was.


The standard is the standard. The fact is that Cowher took a SB winning team with a weak schedule and barely made .500. Besides, if it were up to Cowher we would never have gotten Ben in the first place.

SidSmythe
12-26-2012, 05:35 PM
And we've become as ridiculous as Fox News on this board :)

This board is as messed up as the Corporate Fox/MSNBC/CNN debacle we call "News"??

oh by the way. Steelhere blocked me b/c i called out his 'tard filled postings!!!

lloydroid
12-26-2012, 05:37 PM
The standard is the standard. The fact is that Cowher took a SB winning team with a weak schedule and barely made .500. Besides, if it were up to Cowher we would never have gotten Ben in the first place.

I agree about Cowher and Ben. But Cowher knew he wasn't coming back in the 2006 season and so did all the players. That is a recipe for FAIL. He didn't give it full effort or focus and neither did the team. Tomlin basically took over the same team that won the Super Bowl. Hard to argue that he didn't inherit a boat load of talent.

SidSmythe
12-26-2012, 06:08 PM
Cowher received
Woodson
Lake
Nickerson
Loyld
Dawson just to name a few changed to a different scheme that the league wasn't ready for and still couldn't win the Big One. But by compassion Cowher inherited more Pro Bowlers than Tomlin ever did. Noll was way past his time in the NFL but as far as talent its no comparison who got the best of the deal.

Man is this guy a TOOL or what!! WOW, what a DORK!!!

Ever heard of:
Ben Roethlisberger
Willie Parker
Hines Ward
James Harrison
James Farrior
Casey Hampton
Troy Polamalu
Aaron Smith
Alan Faneca

PLUS Nickerson, Lake & Lloyd were ProBowler's AFTER Cowher.

I know this GEEK has me blocked, so someone please tell him of his 911th dumb post on here!! :p

feltdizz
12-26-2012, 06:51 PM
So, Cowher was a lame duck his last year with a loaded team? Not buying it... Cowher struggled to get to a SB both times.. Tomlin, not so much. Cowher's teams also looked horrible on D in home AFCCGs.

Tomlin took over a good team.and won a SB 3 years later. Not bad...

All that being said I think we need to give Tomlin time to stink it up like Cowher and Noll did before comparing the 2.

SidSmythe
12-26-2012, 07:11 PM
So, Cowher was a lame duck his last year with a loaded team? Not buying it... Cowher struggled to get to a SB both times.. Tomlin, not so much. Cowher's teams also looked horrible on D in home AFCCGs.

Tomlin took over a good team.and won a SB 3 years later. Not bad...

All that being said I think we need to give Tomlin time to stink it up like Cowher and Noll did before comparing the 2.

I think if COWHER's heart was still in it he would have won another Superbowl by now.
I've always liked Tomlin but I have a few issues with him...but I agree. I'm not going to make a new screenname like "FireMikeTomlinNow" anytime soon....I really hope he continues to grow and learn on the job and don't wish for another bad season to justify getting rid of him. Sadly there are sick people who'd love to see 2 losing seasons just to say "I told you tomlin was no good!"

Steelhere10
12-27-2012, 08:02 AM
Yea, Tomlin took over an 8-8 team that was just 1 year removed from winning the SB. And before we forget, Cowher was a lame duck coach - and he, and everyone else - knew that. You know how people who know they are leaving a job do their job? There is no question Cowher was on cruise control his last year, and that, plus having just won it all, made that team way worse record wise than their talent was.

Tomlin inherited:

Ben - franchise QB
Parker - ProBowler
Ward - PB
Holmes - PB
Miller
Faneca - PB
Marvel Smith
Ryan Clark
Polamalu - PB
Harrison - PB
Ike Taylor
Farrior - PB
Hamtpon - PB
Aaron Smith
Keisel
TownsendI

Starting with a franchise QB on down, Tomlin took over a loaded team. Cowher inherited a good amount of decent players - some awesome, such as Woodson, Lake and Lloyd, - but did he really get gifted more talent than Tomlin? Just having a franchise QB alone tells me Tomlin started with the better team. For cripes sake, they were one year removed from winning it all! Cowher took over a team with a LOSING record and O'Donnell as the QB. Good luck winning with that.You name three player at the end of their career another that maybe played 8 games due to injury, One who played one season and another who Cowher would not start and compare them to players at the beginning of their career.
Smith
Faneca
Harrison Farrior
Townsend
Parker and Marvell no comparison.

fezziwig
12-27-2012, 10:44 AM
Yea, Tomlin took over an 8-8 team that was just 1 year removed from winning the SB. And before we forget, Cowher was a lame duck coach - and he, and everyone else - knew that. You know how people who know they are leaving a job do their job? There is no question Cowher was on cruise control his last year, and that, plus having just won it all, made that team way worse record wise than their talent was.

Tomlin inherited:

Ben - franchise QB
Parker - ProBowler
Ward - PB
Holmes - PB
Miller
Faneca - PB
Marvel Smith
Ryan Clark
Polamalu - PB
Harrison - PB
Ike Taylor
Farrior - PB
Hamtpon - PB
Aaron Smith
Keisel
Townsend

Starting with a franchise QB on down, Tomlin took over a loaded team. Cowher inherited a good amount of decent players - some awesome, such as Woodson, Lake and Lloyd, - but did he really get gifted more talent than Tomlin? Just having a franchise QB alone tells me Tomlin started with the better team. For cripes sake, they were one year removed from winning it all! Cowher took over a team with a LOSING record and O'Donnell as the QB. Good luck winning with that.



:Bow:Bow:Bow

fezziwig
12-27-2012, 10:48 AM
Ahhh, the no playoff debates among Steeler fans. I see an ugly off season brewing and I believe with every trouble or fault this 2013 team runs into, Tomlins ears should be burning.

SidSmythe
12-27-2012, 11:10 AM
Yea, Tomlin took over an 8-8 team that was just 1 year removed from winning the SB. And before we forget, Cowher was a lame duck coach - and he, and everyone else - knew that. You know how people who know they are leaving a job do their job? There is no question Cowher was on cruise control his last year, and that, plus having just won it all, made that team way worse record wise than their talent was.

Tomlin inherited:

Ben - franchise QB
Parker - ProBowler
Ward - PB
Holmes - PB
Miller
Faneca - PB
Marvel Smith
Ryan Clark
Polamalu - PB
Harrison - PB
Ike Taylor
Farrior - PB
Hamtpon - PB
Aaron Smith
Keisel
Townsend

Starting with a franchise QB on down, Tomlin took over a loaded team. Cowher inherited a good amount of decent players - some awesome, such as Woodson, Lake and Lloyd, - but did he really get gifted more talent than Tomlin? Just having a franchise QB alone tells me Tomlin started with the better team. For cripes sake, they were one year removed from winning it all! Cowher took over a team with a LOSING record and O'Donnell as the QB. Good luck winning with that.

Lets not forget that COWHER TEAM went 6-2 to finish that season ... last game of the year they knocked the BUNGLES outta the playoffs.

Slapstick
12-27-2012, 11:40 AM
Please. The talent Cowher inherited was just as good, if not better, than the talent Tomlin acquired...

Tomlin inherited a franchise QB? Sure...that may be how he matched Cowher's SB record of 1-1 in his first five years as opposed to 15 years...

How did puttin gthe bal into the hands of his franchise QB work out this year?

lloydroid
12-27-2012, 03:41 PM
Please. The talent Cowher inherited was just as good, if not better, than the talent Tomlin acquired...

Tomlin inherited a franchise QB? Sure...that may be how he matched Cowher's SB record of 1-1 in his first five years as opposed to 15 years...

How did puttin gthe bal into the hands of his franchise QB work out this year?

You mean the one who had an injury so bad it could have killed him? That one? Elway, Favre, Montana have had down years. And let's not forget the monkey sex play calling Ben had to try to win with. That FAIL rush/bubble screen 1st and 2nd down with obvious throwing on 3rd down is a real winner.

SidSmythe
12-27-2012, 05:14 PM
Please. The talent Cowher inherited was just as good, if not better, than the talent Tomlin acquired...

Tomlin inherited a franchise QB? Sure...that may be how he matched Cowher's SB record of 1-1 in his first five years as opposed to 15 years...

How did puttin gthe bal into the hands of his franchise QB work out this year?

Ben was considered an MVP candidate before his injury.
WHIZ inherited a Hall of Fame QB, ask him how he's doing now that he's gone???

lloydroid
12-27-2012, 05:27 PM
Ben was considered an MVP candidate before his injury.
WHIZ inherited a Hall of Fame QB, ask him how he's doing now that he's gone???

Ding, ding, ding, ding. Exactly.

fezziwig
12-27-2012, 05:46 PM
Ben was considered an MVP candidate before his injury.
WHIZ inherited a Hall of Fame QB, ask him how he's doing now that he's gone???


:Clap I believe once Ben has retired the Rooneys should not even think about not making another QB a number one pick. The proof is in the Super Bowl wins.

BigRob
12-27-2012, 05:56 PM
You mean the one who had an injury so bad it could have killed him? That one? Elway, Favre, Montana have had down years. And let's not forget the monkey sex play calling Ben had to try to win with. That FAIL rush/bubble screen 1st and 2nd down with obvious throwing on 3rd down is a real winner.

Ahh, phuck, don't tell me you buy into that Drama Queen bull****.

BigRob
12-27-2012, 05:57 PM
Ding, ding, ding, ding. Exactly.

And Cowher didn't do ****e, until he had Roethlisberger. So what the phuck, go suck a duck.

Slapstick
12-27-2012, 07:15 PM
Exactly my point. We were in the depths of suckatude when Cowher took over Noll's players. He turned things around and sat us back upright.

Bull. Cowher inherited talent on par with what Tomlin inherited. Hall of Famer Rod Woodson. Greg Lloyd. Carnell Lake. Eric Green. Barry Foster. Hall of Famer Dermontti Dawson.

Just because Emperor Chaz didn't do a great job his last year doesn't the cupboard was bare....

lloydroid
12-27-2012, 07:16 PM
And Cowher didn't do ****e, until he had Roethlisberger. So what the phuck, go suck a duck.

BC won a lot before Ben, just never a ring, but did get us there with the game-throwing O'Donnell. We will see if Tomlin can out do what BC did after the next 10 years.

BigRob
12-27-2012, 07:33 PM
BC won a lot before Ben, just never a ring, but did get us there with the game-throwing O'Donnell. We will see if Tomlin can out do what BC did after the next 10 years.

Things have already started pretty damned well for him, despite your hate. :Blah

steelz09
12-27-2012, 07:39 PM
I was a huge Cowher fan but his obvious flaw was the QB position. If the Steelers/Cowher would have been more persistent with filling the QB position with someone more consistent, Cowher would have had multiple rings.

BigRob
12-27-2012, 07:52 PM
I was a huge Cowher fan but his obvious flaw was the QB position. If the Steelers/Cowher would have been more persistent with filling the QB position with someone more consistent, Cowher would have had multiple rings.

Cowher didn't think you needed an elite QB. Cost him big time.

BigRob
12-27-2012, 07:55 PM
BC won a lot before Ben, just never a ring, but did get us there with the game-throwing O'Donnell. We will see if Tomlin can out do what BC did after the next 10 years.

People also seem to forget that Cowher missed the playoffs as much as he made it the last 10 years of his career.

Made it in: 1997,2001,2002,2004,2005

Missed it in: 1998,1999,2000,2003,2006

Steelhere10
12-27-2012, 08:46 PM
People also seem to forget that Cowher missed the playoffs as much as he made it the last 10 years of his career.

Made it in: 1997,2001,2002,2004,2005

Missed it in: 1998,1999,2000,2003,2006You can't win against these anti Tomlin haters, when all Cowher did was choke away AFC CG. San Di freaking ego of all teams. His penchant for playing not to lose lost him more than he won when it counted.

Oviedo
12-27-2012, 08:47 PM
BC won a lot before Ben, just never a ring, but did get us there with the game-throwing O'Donnell. We will see if Tomlin can out do what BC did after the next 10 years.

BC was outcoached alot in the games that mattered the most. He became a self absorbed attention whore the longer he was here. It became more and more about him and less about the players and the team.

BigRob
12-27-2012, 08:48 PM
BC was outcoached alot in the games that mattered the most. He became a self absorbed attention whore the longer he was here. It became more and more about him and less about the players and the team.

2006 still makes me sick. What a wasted phuckin year.

NorthCoast
12-27-2012, 08:53 PM
2006 still makes me sick. What a wasted phuckin year.

You're right. Something just wasn't right that entire year and it was a tremendous waste of talent. Cowher was the most stoic I had ever seen him on the sidelines.... sorta "oh well" to all that was going on. I think he was emotionally spent and maybe his wife's illness was weighing very heavily on his perspective on coaching.