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flippy
12-24-2012, 09:32 AM
Could we have a top 10 draft pick? We'll need a little help, but I think #10 is the highest we could possibly get.

Worst case, we're picking #19.

The sad part is, does it really matter? Will we get any player who's worth drafting this high?

More importantly, picking close to 10 might help in rounds 2-4 more than round 1 imho. But the way Tomlin/Colbert draft, does it even matter?

Given the current state of the team, I have no idea what direction we'll go in the draft? Who will the best player available be?

MeetJoeGreene
12-24-2012, 10:15 AM
That is a remarkably cogent and comprehensive mock draft whose foundational premises address the Steelers multitudinous deficiencies while providing substantive depth at several essential positions.

Oviedo
12-24-2012, 11:04 AM
Could we have a top 10 draft pick? We'll need a little help, but I think #10 is the highest we could possibly get.

Worst case, we're picking #19.

The sad part is, does it really matter? Will we get any player who's worth drafting this high?

More importantly, picking close to 10 might help in rounds 2-4 more than round 1 imho. But the way Tomlin/Colbert draft, does it even matter?

Given the current state of the team, I have no idea what direction we'll go in the draft? Who will the best player available be?

Aside from New England no other team that habitually picks as late as we do does any better with their draft picks. Its not a Tomlin/Colbert issue, it is how the NFL designs the talent distribution to work. We may have made it worse by keeping some players too long but it isn't the drafting.

supersteeler
12-24-2012, 12:17 PM
The 2013 draft may be the earliest we pick in some time. We could use help in various positions, for me we need a NT to replace Casey Hampton. One who has power and can move blockers, Johnathan Jenkins, DT may fit that bill @ 6-3 358 lbs from Georgia. The Steelers could possibly let Mclendon compete against Hood,Heyward and Keisel if he's still here for the DE position.

OG is another position they could look at, at any rate most games are won on the line of scrimmage and we need players there that can dominate. I would be happy with either position being upgraded, but I would prefer NT especially one who has the power to move people even when double teamed.

srk173
12-24-2012, 12:31 PM
10th is the highest 19th is the worst and not likely since we had a very easy schedule. I would guess drafting 14th as we sit right now. shutdown CB, NT, Ilb, S, LT, RB, TE, QB, WR i think would be our needs.

flippy
12-24-2012, 12:41 PM
We could be in a position to grab a great LT to anchor our OLine for the rest of Ben's career.

SidSmythe
12-24-2012, 01:10 PM
That is a remarkably cogent and comprehensive mock draft whose foundational premises address the Steelers multitudinous deficiencies while providing substantive depth at several essential positions.

Huh?? :shock:
:shock:

SidSmythe
12-24-2012, 01:11 PM
We could be in a position to grab a great LT to anchor our OLine for the rest of Ben's career.

I think they'll be content with who they got last year for now unless a total BEAST is there.

I'm thinking PASS RUSHER!!!!!!

Dee Dub
12-24-2012, 01:38 PM
10th is the highest 19th is the worst and not likely since we had a very easy schedule. I would guess drafting 14th as we sit right now. shutdown CB, NT, Ilb, S, LT, RB, TE, QB, WR i think would be our needs.

I dont think this is correct. San Diego has a worse opponent win loss percentage. So actually the lowest spot the Steelers can draft is at 11. And the highest is 17. If the Steelers, Dallas, and NY Giants all finish at 8-8, Dallas and NY Giants have a higher opponent win loss percentages than the Steelers.

http://gbnreport.com/weeklydraftorder.html

Realistically, there is a good chance next Sunday the NY Jets beat Buffalo, and Tampa Bay beats Atlanta (who would should be resting starters). And if somehow Carolina beats New Orleans Steelers would end up with the 11th overall pick.

Shoe
12-24-2012, 01:40 PM
The 2013 draft may be the earliest we pick in some time. We could use help in various positions, for me we need a NT to replace Casey Hampton. One who has power and can move blockers, Johnathan Jenkins, DT may fit that bill @ 6-3 358 lbs from Georgia. The Steelers could possibly let Mclendon compete against Hood,Heyward and Keisel if he's still here for the DE position.

OG is another position they could look at, at any rate most games are won on the line of scrimmage and we need players there that can dominate. I would be happy with either position being upgraded, but I would prefer NT especially one who has the power to move people even when double teamed.

Unless that guy is Haloti Ngata--no thanks. We need playmakers on our defense, pure and simple. There is a reason that we've ranked at the bottom of the league in takeaways (despite our lofty defensive rankings). We are too slow on defense.

Our other weakness will be continued offensive line help.

Dee Dub
12-24-2012, 01:42 PM
Unless that guy is Haloti Ngata--no thanks. We need playmakers on our defense, pure and simple. There is a reason that we've ranked at the bottom of the league in takeaways (despite our lofty defensive rankings). We are too slow on defense.

Our other weakness will be continued offensive line help.

Agreed!! And Jenkins is no where near Haloti Ngata.

Lets also keep in mind that the Steelers ranking for their defense is also based on having played one of the worst opponents win-loss percentages in the league.

pfelix73
12-24-2012, 05:17 PM
Playmakers on defense. Same as last year. Would love to see another Rod Woodson type CB drafted.... ILB or DL maybe. RB???

lloydroid
12-24-2012, 05:28 PM
The 2013 draft may be the earliest we pick in some time. We could use help in various positions, for me we need a NT to replace Casey Hampton. One who has power and can move blockers, Johnathan Jenkins, DT may fit that bill @ 6-3 358 lbs from Georgia. The Steelers could possibly let Mclendon compete against Hood,Heyward and Keisel if he's still here for the DE position.

OG is another position they could look at, at any rate most games are won on the line of scrimmage and we need players there that can dominate. I would be happy with either position being upgraded, but I would prefer NT especially one who has the power to move people even when double teamed.

I can't think of a worse draft. DL and OG? What the frick have they been doing the last 4 years? We have to make due with what we got at DL and OG for now. DeCastro will work out fine and the left over parts will make us OK at OG, without us needing to use a high pick, any how.

They got to go with DB, LB and RB and TE and WR. DL and OG are not nearly as high on the priority list.

supersteeler
12-24-2012, 06:23 PM
I can't think of a worse draft. DL and OG? What the frick have they been doing the last 4 years? We have to make due with what we got at DL and OG for now. DeCastro will work out fine and the left over parts will make us OK at OG, without us needing to use a high pick, any how.

They got to go with DB, LB and RB and TE and WR. DL and OG are not nearly as high on the priority list.

Who is going to replace Casey Hampton? If he stays another year and accepts a lower amount of salary they may go in another direction, but we will need a disruptive NT. McClendon is too light in the britches to play NT on a regular basis so who do we have for that position?
Look, we could use help in many positions, so I guess it depends on who is there when we pick. I could be wrong but I still say NT, however if a good safety is available I wouldn't be opposed to taking him. Mundy isn't starting material, Troy and clark have what 11 years in the league? We need to get young at that position for the long term.

NJ-STEELER
12-24-2012, 06:39 PM
with all the passing in the league now, its not as important as say when we drafted hampton to get a 3-4 nose tackle

lloydroid
12-24-2012, 07:01 PM
Who is going to replace Casey Hampton? If he stays another year and accepts a lower amount of salary they may go in another direction, but we will need a disruptive NT. McClendon is too light in the britches to play NT on a regular basis so who do we have for that position?
Look, we could use help in many positions, so I guess it depends on who is there when we pick. I could be wrong but I still say NT, however if a good safety is available I wouldn't be opposed to taking him. Mundy isn't starting material, Troy and clark have what 11 years in the league? We need to get young at that position for the long term.

Are you giving up on Ta'amu already? I thought he was supposed to rule at NT. I know he went on a bender and got in trouble, but his career isn't over already is it? McClendon seems decent, at least to back up. We need DBs and a LB or 2. We must get some play makers out there.

supersteeler
12-24-2012, 07:59 PM
Are you giving up on Ta'amu already? I thought he was supposed to rule at NT. I know he went on a bender and got in trouble, but his career isn't over already is it? McClendon seems decent, at least to back up. We need DBs and a LB or 2. We must get some play makers out there.

I don't know what the Steelers plans are regarding Ta'amu, first he has a legal hurdle to overcome. If he should get through the legal issues, he may have a second chance with the team but for now it's all up in the air. If he is able to compete for the position, then the Steelers may go in another direction in the draft. At this rate BPA might be the ticket in the 2013 draft as we need help in almost every position.

If we could work out a trade with a team, we might be able to get an extra draft pick for Wallace, as it appears he will sign with another team.
Btw, I'm hearing skuttlebutt that Miami might pursue Wallace.

Sugar
12-24-2012, 08:46 PM
If Matt Barkley is there, do you take him? He could be BPA.

hawaiiansteel
12-24-2012, 09:13 PM
If Matt Barkley is there, do you take him? He could be BPA.

no, you don't.

papillon
12-25-2012, 08:40 AM
If Matt Barkley is there, do you take him? He could be BPA.

Please no, do not draft a quarterback from USC that is highly regarded (we've seen enough of them live down to expectations), unless, he's there in the 5th or 6th round.:p

Pappy

Chadman
12-25-2012, 09:38 AM
I don't know what the Steelers plans are regarding Ta'amu, first he has a legal hurdle to overcome. If he should get through the legal issues, he may have a second chance with the team but for now it's all up in the air. If he is able to compete for the position, then the Steelers may go in another direction in the draft. At this rate BPA might be the ticket in the 2013 draft as we need help in almost every position.

If we could work out a trade with a team, we might be able to get an extra draft pick for Wallace, as it appears he will sign with another team.
Btw, I'm hearing skuttlebutt that Miami might pursue Wallace.

Although we'll be in the minority- Chadman agrees. NT is a VITAL cog in this 3-4, and it's no surprise that the pressure on the opposing QB has dwindled as Casey Hampton's career has dwindled. A dominant 3-4 NT will soak up an extra blocker, collapse a pocket, and be stout against the run. Right now, we are stout, most of the time.

That's it.

By soaking up the extra blocker, you instantly make the job easier for your DE's to get pressure- something we all want. And if your DE's are getting more attention, your OLB's are getting freer on the outside. NT is the cog that makes the defense turn.

Converesly, if there are no NT's of worth available- the Steelers OL has not dominated the LOS all season. If they could add a dominant OG to play opposite DeCastro & alongside Pouncey, then the running game becomes more effective, Ben gets more time, the passing game improves. Chadman likes Colon, thought he actually played alright at LG, but cap-cost & injury-risk are starting to not add up well. By drafting mid-1st round, the steelers will be perfectly positioned to grab the #1 IOL player on the draftboard.

Those that want a passrusher to replace Harrison- we have him. Worilds. Don't kid yourselves- any new guy coming in will be placed behind Worilds next season. And Chadman will beat the SS/FS drum as loud as anyone, but so long as they invest in guys that fit the system, raw players are fine, as the 'need' for them to start is at least a season away. Foote did not play badly enough to be replaced, so long as his cap figure isn't too bad, and the Steelers will need Vet leaders next season. This would give Spence a year to get back & show if there is something there.

1 position that WILL need to be addressed is TE. With Miller's injury, you'd have to be concerned about him not being ready for the start of next season. Anyone feel confidant about Paulsen starting?

supersteeler
12-25-2012, 08:13 PM
Chadman,
I'm in agreement with you also, that if we can't get that dominate NT we go LG to make that line great. I think if DeCasto didn't have the injury in the preseason he would of been dominate by now. He just didn't have enough reps and game experience but he'll be a good one. Again, most games are won in the trenches, thats why I favor getting a dominate NT to help free up our ends like you stated very well.

Johnathan Jenkins is like a box truck, you can't move this guy and @ 358 he not only has tremendous power he eats up blocks. We get that Georgia Bulldog and we're set for a decade.

Btw, DeCastro made Ta'Amu a non factor when they played against each other in college.

Mister Pittsburgh
12-25-2012, 11:16 PM
Btw, DeCastro made Ta'Amu a non factor when they played against each other in college.

3-4 & 4-3 DL do different things. I don't see how Ta'amu can get out of some prison time on a 2nd DUI and all the other stuff like evading police and nearly running cops over.

SS Laser
12-26-2012, 03:22 AM
I think it was the depot that said Hamp had a very good game against the bengals. That is why they could not run the ball. Timmons also had a very good game to help with them not running the ball. But I agree that a NT makes this 3-4 line work or not. If Te'o is a can't mis guy but he gets drafted before we pick. I like a NT or OLB at this point in the first rd. What position is this draft deep at?

supersteeler
12-26-2012, 06:27 AM
3-4 & 4-3 DL do different things. I don't see how Ta'amu can get out of some prison time on a 2nd DUI and all the other stuff like evading police and nearly running cops over.

Thats why I responded to lloydroid's question about giving up on TA'amu, that he has too many legal hurdles to overcome, plus he didn't do much in camp against competition. Mclendon is a good backup, but we need a dominate NT in there. Yes Casey had a good game against the Bengals and a decent year this season but his age and salary are against him.

Shawn
12-26-2012, 06:42 AM
If Matt Barkley is there, do you take him? He could be BPA.

Its odd that you say that. It would have never entered my mind. But, I have had two draft dreams in my life. The first was when I dreamt we would trade up to grab Santonio Holmes. The second was recently, when I was floored that we drafted a QB. With that said, there isn't a QB in this draft round one worthy and that includes Barkley. So, I assume my dream was related to a bad slice of pizza and we go with either Jonathan Hankins DT, or Mingo LB. If a NT can be called a game changer Hankins is that guy. Mingo is also a freak, would be ok with either guy. Mingo is so fast and athletic that I know Tomlin is drooling just thinking about drafting him.

Chadman
12-26-2012, 09:33 AM
Really like the look of the NT out of Purdue... but Jesse Williams out of Alabama would be just fine.

Oviedo
12-26-2012, 09:41 AM
Its odd that you say that. It would have never entered my mind. But, I have had two draft dreams in my life. The first was when I dreamt we would trade up to grab Santonio Holmes. The second was recently, when I was floored that we drafted a QB. With that said, there isn't a QB in this draft round one worthy and that includes Barkley. So, I assume my dream was related to a bad slice of pizza and we go with either Jonathan Hankins DT, or Mingo LB. If a NT can be called a game changer Hankins is that guy. Mingo is also a freak, would be ok with either guy. Mingo is so fast and athletic that I know Tomlin is drooling just thinking about drafting him.

Mingo has "bust" written all over him. He is way too raw to take as high as we will be drafting. Mingo and Montgomery remind me of Hugh Green and Ricky Jackson fro Pitt many years ago. Mingo, like Green, gets the hype but Montgomery, like Jackson, will be the better player in the NFL. I would prefer Montgomery over Mingo. But then we have that wait for two years issue before they get significant playing time under LeBeau.

As far as an ILB, look no further than Kevin Minter to take over for Foote. It is a pipe dream to think that Sean Spence will be able to play at a high level in 2013.

RuthlessBurgher
12-26-2012, 01:34 PM
Huh?? :shock:
:shock:

That is an excellent mock draft. ;)

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
12-26-2012, 01:36 PM
At 7-9:

RD 1 - DAMONTRE MOORE OLB
RD 2 - KENNY VACCARO S
RD 3 - LE'VEON BELL RB
RD 4 - GERALD HODGES ILB
RD 5 - JOSEPH FAURIA TE
RD 6 - BRAD SORENSEN QB
RD 7 - MARQUEIS GRAY WR

Dee Dub
12-26-2012, 01:57 PM
Mingo has "bust" written all over him. He is way too raw to take as high as we will be drafting. Mingo and Montgomery remind me of Hugh Green and Ricky Jackson fro Pitt many years ago. Mingo, like Green, gets the hype but Montgomery, like Jackson, will be the better player in the NFL. I would prefer Montgomery over Mingo. But then we have that wait for two years issue before they get significant playing time under LeBeau.

As far as an ILB, look no further than Kevin Minter to take over for Foote. It is a pipe dream to think that Sean Spence will be able to play at a high level in 2013.

Agreed about Mingo. For as great as he is athletically, he had a very down year this year. Only 4 sacks and 5.5 tackles for loss? And that is with having Sam Montgomery on the other side. I too would rather have Montgomery of the two. But having said that, both will require a position change if they go to the Steelers.

I love Kevin Minter. He is my second favorite ILB in this draft.

Dee Dub
12-26-2012, 02:03 PM
At 7-9:

RD 1 - DAMONTRE MOORE OLB
RD 2 - KENNY VACCARO S
RD 3 - LE'VEON BELL RB
RD 4 - GERALD HODGES ILB
RD 5 - JOSEPH FAURIA TE
RD 6 - BRAD SORENSEN QB
RD 7 - MARQUEIS GRAY WR

That's a great draft but I dont think Damontre Moore makes it past the first 10 picks of this upcoming draft. Joseph Fauria is going to be a huge find for some team. 6 ft 7 TE who played in a more run oriented offense. 11 TD's this past year.

Dee Dub
12-26-2012, 02:23 PM
For what it is worth, I believe there are 5 immediate impact players on defense in this draft. Jarvis Jones (OLB already in a 3-4), DT/NT Star Lotulelei (as close to Hiloti Ngata as there is), ILB Manti Te'o, CB Dee Milliner, and DT/NTJonathan Hankins.

And I would be ok if there was a move up to get one of these players. But not for an entire draft class. ;)

Oviedo
12-26-2012, 06:34 PM
For what it is worth, I believe there are 5 immediate impact players on defense in this draft. Jarvis Jones (OLB already in a 3-4), DT/NT Star Lotulelei (as close to Hiloti Ngata as there is), ILB Manti Te'o, CB Dee Milliner, and DT/NTJonathan Hankins.

And I would be ok if there was a move up to get one of these players. But not for an entire draft class. ;)

We need players and more of them. We can't afford to give away picks to move up into the Top end of the draft. We still need an OG and OT. We need a DT/NT. We need more than one Safety. We need a TE. Can't give up picks and get that.

MeetJoeGreene
12-26-2012, 07:12 PM
At 7-9:

RD 1 - DAMONTRE MOORE OLB
RD 2 - KENNY VACCARO S
RD 3 - LE'VEON BELL RB
RD 4 - GERALD HODGES ILB
RD 5 - JOSEPH FAURIA TE
RD 6 - BRAD SORENSEN QB
RD 7 - MARQUEIS GRAY WR

That is a remarkably cogent and comprehensive mock draft whose foundational premises address the Steelers multitudinous deficiencies while providing substantive depth at several essential positions.

fordfixer
12-26-2012, 08:05 PM
That is a remarkably cogent and comprehensive mock draft whose foundational premises address the Steelers multitudinous deficiencies while providing substantive depth at several essential positions.
I agree with what he said I think?????????:-)

Dee Dub
12-26-2012, 08:38 PM
We need players and more of them. We can't afford to give away picks to move up into the Top end of the draft. We still need an OG and OT. We need a DT/NT. We need more than one Safety. We need a TE. Can't give up picks and get that.

Yes I know, we hear this same cry every year about we can't afford to give away draft picks.....as if with every one of their picks the Steelers are going to get a great player. As if the Chris Carters, Thaddeus Gibsons, Toney Clemons of the world are really going to make a difference. You arent going to fill every need this team has in one draft class Ovi. How about getting one or two big time blue-chippers?

But Ovi, I bet you are a big fan of that show Hoarders, right? :p

Mister Pittsburgh
12-26-2012, 09:48 PM
Really like the look of the NT out of Purdue... but Jesse Williams out of Alabama would be just fine.
I like Williams as well. Aussie rugby player!

Oviedo
12-26-2012, 10:46 PM
Yes I know, we hear this same cry every year about we can't afford to give away draft picks.....as if with every one of their picks the Steelers are going to get a great player. As if the Chris Carters, Thaddeus Gibsons, Toney Clemons of the world are really going to make a difference. You arent going to fill every need this team has in one draft class Ovi. How about getting one or two big time blue-chippers?

But Ovi, I bet you are a big fan of that show Hoarders, right? :p

Ah...therein lies the problem. To move up into the Top 5-7 you would have to give up your Round 2 pick so it would be all but impossible to get anything but one "potentially" great player. That is not going to help us with the number of holes we have. We may not be able to fill every need, but I rather try to fill 2-3 versus just one.

Chadman
12-27-2012, 10:24 AM
The 'fix' has to come from multiple sources- yes, obviously the draft.

The Steelers generally do a pretty good job in FA, finding guys to plug in as they need them. With Miller having to come back from that knee injury, it's quite possible the Steelers would find a suitable FA TE to plug in until Heath's ready. Even one of the safety spots could be filled (reserve safety spots, that is) through FA. The Steelers tend to look for their impact guys through the draft though- so DL/OL/WR/CB etc- future 'need' positions- will likely come in via the draft.

The last place to look is from within the orginisation. Everyone wants a new OLB, but realistically- that guy is Worilds. Maybe Ta'Amu is the future NT (don't count on it). Spence or Sylvester to replace Foote. Mike Adams to replace Starks, perhaps?

It's not always sexy to think that our replacement guys are already in the clubhouse, but it's quite often the case.

squidkid
12-27-2012, 12:18 PM
1) Chance Warmack G

Dee Dub
12-27-2012, 01:21 PM
Ah...therein lies the problem. To move up into the Top 5-7 you would have to give up your Round 2 pick so it would be all but impossible to get anything but one "potentially" great player. That is not going to help us with the number of holes we have. We may not be able to fill every need, but I rather try to fill 2-3 versus just one.

Not all 5 of those players I named will go in the top 7 picks. If the Steelers draft at 12 it wont necessarily require using this years second round pick. Cleveland and New Orleans do not have second round picks this year. So that moves the Steelers third round pick up at 2 spots. Moving from 12 to 8 would require this years 1st and 3rd round picks.

Now you are drafting at 8 and 43. You should be able to get one great player and one really good player with that. If you walk away this off season filling two holes with one great player and another very good player, then you have had a very successful off season.

RuthlessBurgher
12-27-2012, 01:24 PM
Yes I know, we hear this same cry every year about we can't afford to give away draft picks.....as if with every one of their picks the Steelers are going to get a great player. As if the Chris Carters, Thaddeus Gibsons, Toney Clemons of the world are really going to make a difference. You arent going to fill every need this team has in one draft class Ovi. How about getting one or two big time blue-chippers?

But Ovi, I bet you are a big fan of that show Hoarders, right? :p

Those guys were all taken on day 3 of the draft...those picks aren't worth all that much. Even if we packaged all of our picks on the third day of the draft (round 4, 5, 6, and 7), we might be be able to move up 2 or possibly 3 spots in round one. If you really want to move up into top 10 territory, you have to sacrifice a valuable day two pick.

Dee Dub
12-27-2012, 01:26 PM
Oh and who knows maybe you have a shot at this guy...

OLB 3-4 defense 77 tackles, 12.5 sacks, 22.5 tackles for loss, 1 INT, and 7 FF's. And he missed two games. ;)

http://www.georgiadogs.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/jones_jarvis00.tml

Dee Dub
12-27-2012, 01:32 PM
Those guys were all taken on day 3 of the draft...those picks aren't worth all that much. Even if we packaged all of our picks on the third day of the draft (round 4, 5, 6, and 7), we might be be able to move up 2 or possibly 3 spots in round one. If you really want to move up into top 10 territory, you have to sacrifice a valuable day two pick.

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying in my last post. See above. If we are drafting at 12 to move up to number 8 (1400), and possibly number 7th overall (1500), trade value points. That would be this years 1 and 3rd.

flippy
12-27-2012, 01:37 PM
Would anyone consider trading down this year for more picks? I know we don't get to pick this high often, but I'm not real ecstatic being in the middle of the draft. I'd rather be at the top or bottom. I either want a sure fire player or the guy that drops that everyone else forgets about.

I know I always want to trade back. But perhaps this is the year it could have the most likelihood of happening.

RuthlessBurgher
12-27-2012, 01:44 PM
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying in my last post. See above. If we are drafting at 12 to move up to number 8 (1400), and possibly number 7th overall (1500), trade value points. That would be this years 1 and 3rd.

Gotcha...that post wasn't there when I started composing mine.

NorthCoast
12-27-2012, 02:01 PM
Would anyone consider trading down this year for more picks? I know we don't get to pick this high often, but I'm not real ecstatic being in the middle of the draft. I'd rather be at the top or bottom. I either want a sure fire player or the guy that drops that everyone else forgets about.

I know I always want to trade back. But perhaps this is the year it could have the most likelihood of happening.

Got me wondering which players the Steelers nabbed that weren't expected to be there when they picked? A few come to mind:

B. Roethlisberger
R. Mendenhall
H. Miller
M. Pouncey?

BigRob
12-27-2012, 02:21 PM
Chadman,


Johnathan Jenkins is like a box truck, you can't move this guy and @ 358 he not only has tremendous power he eats up blocks. We get that Georgia Bulldog and we're set for a decade.



Really? I saw Jenkins fat ass repeatedly blown off the ball during the SEC Championship game by NFL talent. No thank you at pick 11.

Give me Mingo or Dion Jordan or a really good LT.

Dee Dub
12-27-2012, 02:29 PM
Gotcha...that post wasn't there when I started composing mine.

Would you be willing to do that, say if Jarvis Jones some how was there at 8? Or maybe Star Lotulelei?

Or better yet, what players would you be willing to move up 4 to 5 spots for?

RuthlessBurgher
12-27-2012, 02:36 PM
Would anyone consider trading down this year for more picks? I know we don't get to pick this high often, but I'm not real ecstatic being in the middle of the draft. I'd rather be at the top or bottom. I either want a sure fire player or the guy that drops that everyone else forgets about.

I know I always want to trade back. But perhaps this is the year it could have the most likelihood of happening.

Sure...there seems to be solid depth on day two of the draft. We might be better off trading away our first pick and ending up with 4 solid day two picks as opposed to just having one player in the middle of each round. If Te'o doesn't drop far enough and the team doesn't think Ogletree presents great value where we are picking, maybe they trade back for Minter instead. The best RB in the draft, Giovani Bernard, may not come off the board until round 2, so he could be an interesting consideration. There should be plenty of potential safeties that we could grab on day 2 like Reid, Jefferson, Elam, McDonald, etc. Maybe the look at Von Miller's understudy at Texas A&M for an undersized edge rusher in Sean Porter (to go with big-bodied guys like Woodley and Worilds)...it certainly can't hurt that he went up against a couple of potential first round tackles in Joeckel and Matthews in practice everyday. A lot of possiblities here (maybe someone like Miami would like to have back-to-back picks in the first round...they have the ammunition to trade up since they have two seconds and two thirds as a result of the Vontae Davis and Brandon Marshall trades).

RuthlessBurgher
12-27-2012, 02:38 PM
Really? I saw Jenkins fat ass repeatedly blown off the ball during the SEC Championship game by NFL talent. No thank you at pick 11.

Give me Mingo or Dion Jordan or a really good LT.

For what it's worth, Walter Cherepinsky has Jenkins falling all the way to pick #49 in his latest mock (meaning that we would pass on him twice...in this case for a couple of LSU Tigers in Barkevious Mingo and Eric Reid).

Dee Dub
12-27-2012, 02:38 PM
Rob what do you have to say about the down years for Mingo and Jordan? Their 2012 seasons sure don't warrant an 11th overall pick. You are really projecting based on skill sets and you are also hoping they can make the transition to OLB in a 3-4. That means more than likely no immediate return for the 11th overall pick.

Please explain that to us. BigRob is on the clock....

RuthlessBurgher
12-27-2012, 02:41 PM
Would you be willing to do that, say if Jarvis Jones some how was there at 8? Or maybe Star Lotulelei?

Or better yet, what players would you be willing to move up 4 to 5 spots for?

Jones and Lotulelei are certainly intriguing prospects, but both may be gone in the top 5. I suppose I'll wait until next week to find out where we are drafting before considering if something like this is even remotely feasible.

RuthlessBurgher
12-27-2012, 02:43 PM
Rob what do you have to say about the down years for Mingo and Jordan? Their 2012 seasons sure don't warrant an 11th overall pick. You are really projecting based on skill sets and you are also hoping they can make the transition to OLB in a 3-4. That means more than likely no immediate return for the 11th overall pick.

Please explain that to us. BigRob is on the clock....

Just curious as to why you are talking about the 11th overall pick when there are currently 13 teams with records that are 6-9 or worse (and we are currently 7-8).

BigRob
12-27-2012, 02:53 PM
Rob what do you have to say about the down years for Mingo and Jordan? Their 2012 seasons sure don't warrant an 11th overall pick. You are really projecting based on skill sets and you are also hoping they can make the transition to OLB in a 3-4. That means more than likely no immediate return for the 11th overall pick.

Please explain that to us. BigRob is on the clock....

Mingo has had a down year, but I believe it is more about LSU's coaching. They did a terrible job with him this year. Give him a year with Keith Butler and he will be a one man wrecking crew.

Also, I don't know what you mean about Jordan having a down year. Your the only person I have heard say that. He has done nothing but raise his stock. He had some injuries that forced him to miss some time, but he did not regress. Dion Jordan will be a top 20 pick and more than likely a top 10. He is an athletic freak and dropped into coverage quite a bit this year for Oregon. The Guy is 6-7 250 lbs and I have seen him cover receivers before.

This guy does a great job breaking him down:

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2012/12/6/3736570/2013-nfl-draft-dion-jordan-defensive-ends

Dee Dub
12-27-2012, 03:00 PM
Just curious as to why you are talking about the 11th overall pick when there are currently 13 teams with records that are 6-9 or worse (and we are currently 7-8).

If the Steelers lose and go 7-9 and all of those teams that are 6-9 win (except the Chargers), they all have a higher opponent winning percentage than the Steelers. Therefore the Steelers will draft ahead of them. It's really not that far-fetched. NY Jets play at Buffalo, Tampa Bay plays at Atlanta (who should be resting most of their starters since they have everything clinched), Carolina is at New Orleans. I could see at least two of these teams winning and maybe all 3.

Dee Dub
12-27-2012, 03:05 PM
Mingo has had a down year, but I believe it is more about LSU's coaching. They did a terrible job with him this year. Give him a year with Keith Butler and he will be a one man wrecking crew.

Also, I don't know what you mean about Jordan having a down year. Your the only person I have heard say that. He has done nothing but raise his stock. He had some injuries that forced him to miss some time, but he did not regress. Dion Jordan will be a top 20 pick and more than likely a top 10. He is an athletic freak and dropped into coverage quite a bit this year for Oregon. The Guy is 6-7 250 lbs and I have seen him cover receivers before.

This guy does a great job breaking him down:

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2012/12/6/3736570/2013-nfl-draft-dion-jordan-defensive-ends

5 sacks and 10.5 tackles for loss? These numbers are not screaming "great year". And they are down from what he did in 2011. I would say he had a down year. And are those really 11th overall pick numbers?

Are you going to address the fact that both Mingo and Jordan will not give you an immediate return?

BigRob
12-27-2012, 03:12 PM
5 sacks and 10.5 tackles for loss? These numbers are not screaming "great year". And they are down from what he did in 2011. I would say he had a down year. And are those really 11th overall pick numbers?

Are you going to address the fact that both Mingo and Jordan will not give you an immediate return?

First of all, you can't just draft for immediate impact. NFL players don't reach their full potential until year 2 or 3. Stop looking for super immediate impact on a starting level. Both of these guys can play a big role next to Woodley/Worilds in year one.

Secondly, Dion Jordan will be a top 10 to 15 pick. Bank on it. He had an injury this year that slowed him down some and he missed one complete game. The guys was asked to do a lot more than rush the passer at Oregon. He was asked to play in space and to cover a lot of guys in space.

Dion Jordan would be my choice at pick 11.


He’s amazing,” Clay said. “Runs like a gazelle, he can play pass coverage, he can play down in the D line, he obviously knows how to rush the passer. He has all the tools.

http://www.statesmanjournal.com/article/20121226/SPORTS/312260071/

Your talking about a guy that's going to be the next Jean Pierre-Paul in my opinion.

BigRob
12-27-2012, 03:14 PM
5 sacks and 10.5 tackles for loss? These numbers are not screaming "great year". And they are down from what he did in 2011. I would say he had a down year. And are those really 11th overall pick numbers?

Stop focusing on the Stats to the point of exclusion. A lot changes from year to year as to how they are used. I prefer Dion Jordan over Mingo, but I would take any of these guys at pick 11:

Jarvis Jones
Barkevious Mingo
Dion Jordan

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
12-27-2012, 03:16 PM
That's a great draft but I dont think Damontre Moore makes it past the first 10 picks of this upcoming draft. Joseph Fauria is going to be a huge find for some team. 6 ft 7 TE who played in a more run oriented offense. 11 TD's this past year.

Hey...If you are holding out hope for Te'O I can for Moore! ;)

Gametape is there on both of them that warrant Top 10 talent. All it takes is Moore showing up at the combine weighing in under 250 and running an average 10 yard split. Then teams will be labeling him a "tweener" because he will need to add mass to play 4-3 DE at the next level but his short area quickness may be impacted. Teams may start seeing him as more of a 3-4 OLB if he has loose hips in position drills because that is where his game will translate at the size he played.

If Te'O shows up and runs a high 1.6 - 1.7 split & struggles in position drills, teams will start looking at his tape even closer and see how he faired against NFL draftable players. Questions could arise how he translates when OL, RBs, & TEs who have the same or better short area quickness are on the field. See how he covers NFL grade RBs & TEs. See how he gets off blocks of NFL grade players. Really look at his angles and see if his instincts & reads are a bigger part of his college success than his athletic ability.

We are talking about posible Top 10 talent guys falling into the 12-14 range as the process unfolds. That isn't a reach at all. I would be happy with either because I feel they both fit.

Dee Dub
12-27-2012, 03:38 PM
First of all, you can't just draft for immediate impact. NFL players don't reach their full potential until year 2 or 3. Stop looking for super immediate impact on a starting level. Both of these guys can play a big role next to Woodley/Worilds in year one.

Secondly, Dion Jordan will be a top 10 to 15 pick. Bank on it. He had an injury this year that slowed him down some and he missed one complete game. The guys was asked to do a lot more than rush the passer at Oregon. He was asked to play in space and to cover a lot of guys in space.

Dion Jordan would be my choice at pick 11.



http://www.statesmanjournal.com/article/20121226/SPORTS/312260071/

Your talking about a guy that's going to be the next Jean Pierre-Paul in my opinion.

Rob every year immediate impact players come into the league...what are you talking about? Why can't the Steelers expect an immediate impact player if drafting 11th? The last time they drafted 11th they got one.

Show us the last college DE that the Steelers selected that made an immediate impact at OLB in a 3-4? Or better yet how about just a big role as you put it? LaMarr Woodley had actually played in a 3-4 some at Michigan yet his first year as a Steeler he recorded all of 14 tackles.

Jason Pierre-Paul didnt have to change positions nor schemes when he came to the NFL. And what I see of Jordan is more like Bruce Irvin of the Seahawks. 8 sacks and only 8 other tackles all year. For the 11th overall pick? No thanks.You are selling your favorite team short. The big what "IF".

Dee Dub
12-27-2012, 03:42 PM
Stop focusing on the Stats to the point of exclusion. A lot changes from year to year as to how they are used. I prefer Dion Jordan over Mingo, but I would take any of these guys at pick 11:

Jarvis Jones
Barkevious Mingo
Dion Jordan

I agree stats dont always show the whole picture, but they do show performance. Dion Jordan's and Barkevious Mingo's stats show they really didn't make all that many big plays. Both show they had less than a sack every other game and less than a tackle for loss every game.

Jarvis Jones? Yes me too. Not Mingo and Jordan...sorry.

BigRob
12-27-2012, 03:51 PM
Jason Pierre-Paul didnt have to change positions nor schemes when he came to the NFL. And what I see of Jordan is more like Bruce Irvin of the Seahawks. 8 sacks and only 8 other tackles all year. For the 11th overall pick? No thanks.You are selling your favorite team short. The big what "IF".

Bull****. Dion Jordan is nothing like Bruce Irvin. Bruce Irvin was a one trick pony in college. Trying to paint Jordan anything like Irvin is complete crap. Much more varied use and production out of Jordan in college. You would be the only person with that comparison who claims to know anything about the draft.

There is nothing to say that Jordan can't have an immediate impact. All I am saying is that you don't players purely on whether they will have a super immediate impact alone. You would pass on a lot of players if that was your main drafting criteria. Drafting is just as much about year 2,3, and 4.

You are way way underselling Dion Jordan.

Dee Dub
12-27-2012, 04:49 PM
Bull****. Dion Jordan is nothing like Bruce Irvin. Bruce Irvin was a one trick pony in college. Trying to paint Jordan anything like Irvin is complete crap. Much more varied use and production out of Jordan in college. You would be the only person with that comparison who claims to know anything about the draft.

There is nothing to say that Jordan can't have an immediate impact. All I am saying is that you don't players purely on whether they will have a super immediate impact alone. You would pass on a lot of players if that was your main drafting criteria. Drafting is just as much about year 2,3, and 4.

You are way way underselling Dion Jordan.

See I think you are missing the point I have with Jordan. I am saying these as if he were a Pittsburgh Steeler and what he would do for them in year one.

Could you give us an example of a Dion Jordan type (college DE), who has played for the Steelers at 3-4 OLB and come right in and had an impact in the last 20 years?

BigRob
12-27-2012, 04:56 PM
See I think you are missing the point I have with Jordan. I am saying these as if he were a Pittsburgh Steeler and what he would do for them in year one.

Could you give us an example of a Dion Jordan type (college DE), who has played for the Steelers at 3-4 OLB and come right in and had an impact in the last 20 years?

How many players come to the Steelers recently and make a big impact in year one?

Roethlisberger (That was due to injury, not design)
Maurkice Pouncey
Heath Miller
Santonio Holmes

What do all of these players have in common? They are all on the offensive side of the ball. This is the last 10 years.

It took Polamalu one year to jump to pro bowl level. Would you change that pick in 2003 for a player that could make an immediate "impact"?

Steelers have made it very clear they do not draft with the expectation the player will come in day one and start with an impact. They are happy when it happens, but they take the long term view.

Dee Dub
12-27-2012, 05:24 PM
How many players come to the Steelers recently and make a big impact in year one?

Roethlisberger (That was due to injury, not design)
Maurkice Pouncey
Heath Miller
Santonio Holmes

What do all of these players have in common? They are all on the offensive side of the ball. This is the last 10 years.

It took Polamalu one year to jump to pro bowl level. Would you change that pick in 2003 for a player that could make an immediate "impact"?

Steelers have made it very clear they do not draft with the expectation the player will come in day one and start with an impact. They are happy when it happens, but they take the long term view.


But with Te'o he played in a 3-4. He is familiar with it. Let's look at the history of the Steelers and high draft picks on defense. Like top 10. Rod Woodson and Joe Greene did pretty well.

A top ten pick or one who falls from the top ten is an elite player that shouldnt be compared to mid to late round picks. One that should be expected to perform right away.

BigRob
12-27-2012, 05:34 PM
But with Te'o he played in a 3-4. He is familiar with it. Let's look at the history of the Steelers and high draft picks on defense. Like top 10. Rod Woodson and Joe Greene did pretty well.

A top ten pick or one who falls from the top ten is an elite player that shouldnt be compared to mid to late round picks. One that should be expected to perform right away.

Once again though, if you take a MLB that high, who do you sit when you are not in your base defense? Teams play their nickel/dime defenses a ton more than in the past.

Timmons or Te'o. Can't see drafting a guy that high when he isn't going to be on the field half of the time. Timmons isn't sitting. How much of an impact can Te'o really have if he is standing on the sidelines half the snaps.

Dee Dub
12-27-2012, 05:38 PM
Once again though, if you take a MLB that high, who do you sit when you are not in your base defense? Teams play their nickel/dime defenses a ton more than in the past.

Timmons or Te'o. Can't see drafting a guy that high when he isn't going to be on the field half of the time. Timmons isn't sitting. How much of an impact can Te'o really have if he is standing on the sidelines half the snaps.

Dont agree. Both Te'o and Timmons are 3 down backers. Both can cover. Dick LeBeau hasnt had that in a long time. But he has had that. Kirkland and Brown for example. If Te'o is inside I could see a lot more of Timmons coming forward after the QB. Something that LeBeau hasnt been able to utilize a lot now.

BigRob
12-27-2012, 05:45 PM
Dont agree. Both Te'o and Timmons are 3 down backers. Both can cover. Dick LeBeau hasnt had that in a long time. But he has had that. Kirkland and Brown for example. If Te'o is inside I could see a lot more of Timmons coming forward after the QB. Something that LeBeau hasnt been able to utilize a lot now.

??????? Your going to play two ILB and put a safety or corner on the bench? How do you think this works when teams like New England go 4 and 5 wide?

Your just going to play your base defense all three downs?

That's laughable. The league is turning into a passing league. Corners and Safeties that can cover are becoming more and more valuable. ILB/MLB are becoming commodities. You only need one stud 3-4 ILB. The other one can be had in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rd.

Look around the league.

Dee Dub
12-27-2012, 08:12 PM
??????? Your going to play two ILB and put a safety or corner on the bench? How do you think this works when teams like New England go 4 and 5 wide?

Your just going to play your base defense all three downs?

That's laughable. The league is turning into a passing league. Corners and Safeties that can cover are becoming more and more valuable. ILB/MLB are becoming commodities. You only need one stud 3-4 ILB. The other one can be had in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rd.

Look around the league.

I've seen the Steelers do this many times. A three man front with 2 ILB's and 6 DB's. Or like Ruthless said, 4 down with 2 ILB's and 5 DB's for their nickle package.

BigRob
12-27-2012, 08:19 PM
I've seen the Steelers do this many times. A three man front with 2 ILB's and 6 DB's. Or like Ruthless said, 4 down with 2 ILB's and 5 DB's for their nickle package.

We'll never agree on the ILB as that high of a pick even if it is Te'o. Unfortunately it won't be settled because someone in the top 10 will jump at the hype and select Te'o before we can get a chance.

Thaddeus Lewis is not going to beat the Steelers this Sunday.

730

We will not be picking 11th.

Oviedo
12-27-2012, 08:42 PM
Mingo has had a down year, but I believe it is more about LSU's coaching. They did a terrible job with him this year. Give him a year with Keith Butler and he will be a one man wrecking crew.

Also, I don't know what you mean about Jordan having a down year. Your the only person I have heard say that. He has done nothing but raise his stock. He had some injuries that forced him to miss some time, but he did not regress. Dion Jordan will be a top 20 pick and more than likely a top 10. He is an athletic freak and dropped into coverage quite a bit this year for Oregon. The Guy is 6-7 250 lbs and I have seen him cover receivers before.

This guy does a great job breaking him down:

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2012/12/6/3736570/2013-nfl-draft-dion-jordan-defensive-ends

Jordan sounds like the perfect player to head our switch to the 4-3 and play a real pass rush DE.

BigRob
12-27-2012, 08:47 PM
Jordan sounds like the perfect player to head our switch to the 4-3 and play a real pass rush DE.

Cept, Oregon plays a 3-4 hyrbrid defense and Jordan has been playing 3-4 OLB already.

Hell give me Dion Jordan in the first and Kiko Alonso (ILB) in the second and I would be extremely happy.