the season in a nutshell

[Starlifter]

you know, after today i was mostly frustrated because I think in general - we can probably agree 6-7 of those 8 losses were self-induced. The last 3 minutes of todays game was an accurate synopsis of our entire season. I can't ever remember watching a steeler team literally hand victory to the opposition. several times. yet, I have to admit as much as this season was about missed opportunities - I would probably feel worse if we had simply been outplayed in all those games. Make no mistake, we handed victory to oakland, tennessee, cleveland and of course cincy today. Yet are we a complete rebuild or is it still perhaps another tweaking? i think it's probably the latter.

still, let's take a look at the problems that will need resolved.

we have a #1 defense except for the last 5 minutes of a game
we have (arguably) the best corp of young receivers in the game - yet they can't hold onto/catch the ball
we have been drafting O-linemen like crazy - but we can't keep enough healthy to have them gel into a unit.
we have a rookie punter who routinely bombs 60 yarders when he's trying to pin the opposition, and 30 yarders when kicking out of our end zone.
the team MVP this year will likely be suisam. how would that have sounded back in sept? and while that's not a problem - it's a total indictment for the rest of the team.
our young DLmen haven't stepped up and taken the jobs we drafted them for.
we rarely get pressure, rarely get sacks and for the last few years have been at the bottom of the league in turnover ratio.

here's the good.

we have a sound organization that will not overreact like we are and will in all likelihood rebound next year.
we have a HOF quarterback
the running backs are solid if not spectacular.
the injuries in the O-line resulted in mucho quality playing time for many rookies.

there are not many bright spots on the defense. a longer off season should help troy continue to heal - but does anyone really think we get 16 games out of him anymore? ryan clark had a very strong year. Timmons as well in my opinion. Larry foote played solid but let's be honest - he's not the long-term solution. harrison was just starting to get back to form. I think he still has 1 or 2 good years left. Is dick lebeau still a genius? still a master of the zone blitz? it sure seems like the league has figured him out. it's simple, spread us out - run 10 yard out patterns for high percentage gains and wait for the LB on the TE mismatch for the big play. serious work to be done for sure. does it start with a new DC? I kinda feel like the offense can get it's act together. Can we afford to wait a year or two while we shuffle personnel and scheme on defense?

ultimately, this season has been no fun at all. each week was frustrating, even the games we won. football is over, we got no hockey and we're staring into the fiscal abyss.

where are the mayans when we need them......

[SDSteel1]

We have a HOF QB?? He singlehandedly lost the last 2 games. We lost today because the only guy who didn't seem to realize it was a playoff game was your HOF QB. The season in a nutshell came down to Ben sucking.

[Starlifter]

I don't disagree that ben has played horribly since his return from injury. the question is, does he suck or did he simply have a very very bad stretch of football? I'm going with the latter. He's played too good for too long to suddenly become a bad QB. he's got one year in with haley. they may not like each other, but 8-8 or 7-9 will probably motivate the both of them to figure out how to be productive.

ben IS a HOF QB.

now if you want to know the reason he's been so bad? I blame his baby. he's probably averaging 4 hours of sleep a night.......:stirpot

[SDSteel1]

I don't disagree that ben has played horribly since his return from injury. the question is, does he suck or did he simply have a very very bad stretch of football? I'm going with the latter. He's played too good for too long to suddenly become a bad QB. he's got one year in with haley. they may not like each other, but 8-8 or 7-9 will probably motivate the both of them to figure out how to be productive.

ben IS a HOF QB.

now if you want to know the reason he's been so bad? I blame his baby. he's probably averaging 4 hours of sleep a night.......:stirpot

I don't think Ben just turned bad, but he went back to the bad habits instead of playing within the system like he did prior to the games he took off. But if it's an attitude problem and not wanting to play within Haileys system then it's something that ain't gonna get better until someone gets his head right. Today's loss fell 100% on him.

[Oviedo]

you know, after today i was mostly frustrated because I think in general - we can probably agree 6-7 of those 8 losses were self-induced. The last 3 minutes of todays game was an accurate synopsis of our entire season. I can't ever remember watching a steeler team literally hand victory to the opposition. several times. yet, I have to admit as much as this season was about missed opportunities - I would probably feel worse if we had simply been outplayed in all those games. Make no mistake, we handed victory to oakland, tennessee, cleveland and of course cincy today. Yet are we a complete rebuild or is it still perhaps another tweaking? i think it's probably the latter.

still, let's take a look at the problems that will need resolved.

we have a #1 defense except for the last 5 minutes of a game
we have (arguably) the best corp of young receivers in the game - yet they can't hold onto/catch the ball
we have been drafting O-linemen like crazy - but we can't keep enough healthy to have them gel into a unit.
we have a rookie punter who routinely bombs 60 yarders when he's trying to pin the opposition, and 30 yarders when kicking out of our end zone.
the team MVP this year will likely be suisam. how would that have sounded back in sept? and while that's not a problem - it's a total indictment for the rest of the team.
our young DLmen haven't stepped up and taken the jobs we drafted them for.
we rarely get pressure, rarely get sacks and for the last few years have been at the bottom of the league in turnover ratio.

here's the good.

we have a sound organization that will not overreact like we are and will in all likelihood rebound next year.
we have a HOF quarterback
the running backs are solid if not spectacular.
the injuries in the O-line resulted in mucho quality playing time for many rookies.

there are not many bright spots on the defense. a longer off season should help troy continue to heal - but does anyone really think we get 16 games out of him anymore? ryan clark had a very strong year. Timmons as well in my opinion. Larry foote played solid but let's be honest - he's not the long-term solution. harrison was just starting to get back to form. I think he still has 1 or 2 good years left. Is dick lebeau still a genius? still a master of the zone blitz? it sure seems like the league has figured him out. it's simple, spread us out - run 10 yard out patterns for high percentage gains and wait for the LB on the TE mismatch for the big play. serious work to be done for sure. does it start with a new DC? I kinda feel like the offense can get it's act together. Can we afford to wait a year or two while we shuffle personnel and scheme on defense?

ultimately, this season has been no fun at all. each week was frustrating, even the games we won. football is over, we got no hockey and we're staring into the fiscal abyss.

where are the mayans when we need them......

We don't have a top defense. Even Phil Simms said before the game we have a ranking but it isn't a defense that makes game changing plays. His words, but exactly what I have been saying.

You are right--it is time to go a different direction on defense. As you correctly stated, the league knows how to beat LeBeau. This league is all about attacking the QB every play, every down. Not freaking rushing three players against 5 or 6. We saw yesterday how a defensive line can play when the four DL are committed to going after the QB and not screwing around scheming and trying to fool people when they just fool themselves. We also saw a large number of rookies and first year players contributing in the Bumgals defense because they didn't have to spend three years learning the system. Just move them into the positions they have always played and let them go.

Put Woodley at DE because he can't play OLB without getting hurt and give him one mission, get the QB. If we don't change this defense we will continue a third year trend with the worst sack totals in decades.

[Jooser]

Ovi, put down the crack pipe son. The Bengals offense scored 6 effing points yesterday. The offense has put the defense on the ropes the whole season with three and outs and turn overs. And guess what, the defense usually answers he bell. The Law Firm of BG-Ellis came into yesterday's game averaging the second most yards in the league over the past three games and he did exactly JACK SQUAT against this defense yesterday. We played without Ike Taylor as well, and he held A.J. Green to one 7-yard catch in the first matchup this season, so there's no reason to think that he wouldn't have been just as effective today had he been healthy. The fact of the matter is the offense has been bordering on SUCK-A-TUDE since our last Super Bowl win and it's been the defense that has kept us competitive, not an explosive offense. The 4-3 answers no questions. If we manage to find a solid NT and replace Foote with someone with a little bit of speed, we are very competitive on defense still. But on offense, we still can't block, we can't run the ball, the WR's drop pass and fumble away games, and Ben is still pouty over the fact that he doesn't like Haley. How you could possibly watch yesterday's game and still criticize the defense is beyond me.

[Starlifter]

Ovi, put down the crack pipe son. The Bengals offense scored 6 effing points yesterday. The offense has put the defense on the ropes the whole season with three and outs and turn overs. And guess what, the defense usually answers he bell. The Law Firm of BG-Ellis came into yesterday's game averaging the second most yards in the league over the past three games and he did exactly JACK SQUAT against this defense yesterday. We played without Ike Taylor as well, and he held A.J. Green to one 7-yard catch in the first matchup this season, so there's no reason to think that he wouldn't have been just as effective today had he been healthy. The fact of the matter is the offense has been bordering on SUCK-A-TUDE since our last Super Bowl win and it's been the defense that has kept us competitive, not an explosive offense. The 4-3 answers no questions. If we manage to find a solid NT and replace Foote with someone with a little bit of speed, we are very competitive on defense still. But on offense, we still can't block, we can't run the ball, the WR's drop pass and fumble away games, and Ben is still pouty over the fact that he doesn't like Haley. How you could possibly watch yesterday's game and still criticize the defense is beyond me.

I agree with you the defense played very well yesterday and this loss is solely on the offense. However this defense has been nothing more than a fantasy football defense all year - the kind that produces stats except for the one stat that counts - wins. True enough the offense has consistently put them in bad positions all year - but it's not the fault of the offense we were horrible at getting pressure on opposing QB's, getting sacks, forcing turnovers, forcing 3 and outs. this is a defense that make oakland, KC and tennessee look like offensive juggernauts. How many games this year that despite of everything, came down to holding on the last drive and we all just KNEW the other team would drive the field for the win. I'll have to go back and take another look, but other than KC and timmons interception (which actually occurred in OT) did we stop ANY team this year that needed a score on the last possession to either tie or win the game?

[jj28west]

Excellent points Jooser.


Ovi, put down the crack pipe son. The Bengals offense scored 6 effing points yesterday. The offense has put the defense on the ropes the whole season with three and outs and turn overs. And guess what, the defense usually answers he bell. The Law Firm of BG-Ellis came into yesterday's game averaging the second most yards in the league over the past three games and he did exactly JACK SQUAT against this defense yesterday. We played without Ike Taylor as well, and he held A.J. Green to one 7-yard catch in the first matchup this season, so there's no reason to think that he wouldn't have been just as effective today had he been healthy. The fact of the matter is the offense has been bordering on SUCK-A-TUDE since our last Super Bowl win and it's been the defense that has kept us competitive, not an explosive offense. The 4-3 answers no questions. If we manage to find a solid NT and replace Foote with someone with a little bit of speed, we are very competitive on defense still. But on offense, we still can't block, we can't run the ball, the WR's drop pass and fumble away games, and Ben is still pouty over the fact that he doesn't like Haley. How you could possibly watch yesterday's game and still criticize the defense is beyond me.

[steelfin]

Ovi, put down the crack pipe son. The Bengals offense scored 6 effing points yesterday. The offense has put the defense on the ropes the whole season with three and outs and turn overs. And guess what, the defense usually answers he bell. The Law Firm of BG-Ellis came into yesterday's game averaging the second most yards in the league over the past three games and he did exactly JACK SQUAT against this defense yesterday. We played without Ike Taylor as well, and he held A.J. Green to one 7-yard catch in the first matchup this season, so there's no reason to think that he wouldn't have been just as effective today had he been healthy. The fact of the matter is the offense has been bordering on SUCK-A-TUDE since our last Super Bowl win and it's been the defense that has kept us competitive, not an explosive offense. The 4-3 answers no questions. If we manage to find a solid NT and replace Foote with someone with a little bit of speed, we are very competitive on defense still. But on offense, we still can't block, we can't run the ball, the WR's drop pass and fumble away games, and Ben is still pouty over the fact that he doesn't like Haley. How you could possibly watch yesterday's game and still criticize the defense is beyond me.

+1...Just put it down....

[Chadman]

Could the season be explained away as easily as saying that at no point did the Steelers really dominate the Line Of Scrimmage?

The OL, through injuries & lack of talent, never really 'dominated'an opposing DL this season. Sure- they held their own, but very rarely were giany holes blown open by rampaging OLineman so that RB's could take it to the house. Starks is a solid vet, and needs re-signing. Pouncey & DeCastro are long-term solutions. Gilbert & Adams will likely duke it out for RT next season with the 'loser'being the back-up 'swing tackle'. Chadman thinks both these guys, in time, will be our starters. But right now, neither are superior to Starks.

that leaves LG, where Colon actually looked to play alright, despite many people's fears. Of course, he went & hurt himself. Foster is a solid guy, but not a dominant guy.

Seen a few people say that this Steeler team never really got an 'identity'. Well, perhaps they need to add a big nasty LG, then run Dwyer/Redman behind our high round Interior OL guys, and grind teams with our power running.

Same goes for the DL, where Hampton wasn't the same guy, and McClendon didn't make us forget about Hampton. Keisel, Hood & Heyward form a pretty reasonable DL rotation, but they need that dominant bull up front to drag in blockers, the way Hampton used to in his prime.

If you don't win the LOS, you don't give yourself enough opportunity to win football matches.

[Jooser]

I agree Chadman, we definitely DID NOT win the battles along the LOS all season long. It could very well be that simple, but methinks not. I think there are a variety of problems with the team right now. I think the QB is a self-centered ego-maniac, though a very talented one, and ego-maniac can be a good thing in the right balance when it comes to being "the" guy. I think that balance was lost this year when Haley entered the picture. I think Larry Foote is a big hole in the middle of our defense, he can't cover and is often too slow in pursuit to the RB. He showed flashes in the pan blitzing this season, but in all he was inadequate. Our WR's failed to get open consistently down the stretch, which caused Ben to fall back into old habits of holding the football for an eternity and that led to too many sacks (along with woeful OL play) and forced throws which in turn led to turnovers. Couple with all of that the tendency for our WR's to drop passes and also to fumble the ball, hell sometimes without even being hit. That's more disaster, and we were just giving the ball game away. Add to all of that the inability for this entire team to stay healthy. I mean, was there a player this season who didn't miss time due to some sort of injury? I think Timmons and Keisel played all season if my recollection serves me correctly. This off-season presents plenty of time for gut-checking, and this team needs to do just that at length.

This has been a pretty crappy year of football all the way around, my only hope is we don't have to sit and watch the Pats* or the Ratbirds in the Super Bowl. That would be the arsenic sauce on the sourkraut and toadstool sandwich that we called the 2012 NFL season.

[NorthCoast]

We don't have a top defense. Even Phil Simms said before the game we have a ranking but it isn't a defense that makes game changing plays. His words, but exactly what I have been saying.

You are right--it is time to go a different direction on defense. As you correctly stated, the league knows how to beat LeBeau. This league is all about attacking the QB every play, every down. Not freaking rushing three players against 5 or 6. We saw yesterday how a defensive line can play when the four DL are committed to going after the QB and not screwing around scheming and trying to fool people when they just fool themselves. We also saw a large number of rookies and first year players contributing in the Bumgals defense because they didn't have to spend three years learning the system. Just move them into the positions they have always played and let them go.

Put Woodley at DE because he can't play OLB without getting hurt and give him one mission, get the QB. If we don't change this defense we will continue a third year trend with the worst sack totals in decades.

The defense was good enough to have a winning season. Last I checked this defense held the #12 scoring offense to two field goals. The offense?.... bleh, that's the only place to find true fault.

[lloydroid]

We have a HOF QB?? He singlehandedly lost the last 2 games. We lost today because the only guy who didn't seem to realize it was a playoff game was your HOF QB. The season in a nutshell came down to Ben sucking.

I agree with this. Ben is living on a reputation that no longer matches reality. He is supposed to be clutch and instead he is garbage when we need him most. Take away his sloppy, bone head plays, and we win this game. I am sick of his sloppy BS. And then add in Tomlin's sloppy decision making (who makes a 56-yarder at Heinz, but the head coach isn't aware of it?) and you have the recipe for many losses. It's really broken at this point. Art better roll up his sleeves and get to work.

[lloydroid]

I think there are a variety of problems with the team right now. I think the QB is a self-centered ego-maniac, though a very talented one, and ego-maniac can be a good thing in the right balance when it comes to being "the" guy. I think that balance was lost this year when Haley entered the picture.

This. /\ /\ /\ /\. I don't think Ben is even a real leader at this point; I don't think his teammates respect him because he is far too often, too sloppy. Gee whiz, he apologized to every teammate after this game. Well F--k you Ben. Why don't get take it more seriously BEFORE you lose the season, you jack @ss. I am sick of him being so careless. He no longer makes up for it with his clutch play. Now he simply LOSSES games instead of saving them. I am SICK OF IT.

[lloydroid]

We don't have a top defense. Even Phil Simms said before the game we have a ranking but it isn't a defense that makes game changing plays. His words, but exactly what I have been saying.

You are right--it is time to go a different direction on defense. As you correctly stated, the league knows how to beat LeBeau. This league is all about attacking the QB every play, every down. Not freaking rushing three players against 5 or 6. We saw yesterday how a defensive line can play when the four DL are committed to going after the QB and not screwing around scheming and trying to fool people when they just fool themselves. We also saw a large number of rookies and first year players contributing in the Bumgals defense because they didn't have to spend three years learning the system. Just move them into the positions they have always played and let them go.

Put Woodley at DE because he can't play OLB without getting hurt and give him one mission, get the QB. If we don't change this defense we will continue a third year trend with the worst sack totals in decades.

I agree with these points and it's getting depressing. The "tricky" crap is over. The waiting 3 years before a player can product on the field is moronic at this point. So much wasted talent on this team, because it is being mis-managed. Depressing

[Chadman]

I agree with these points and it's getting depressing. The "tricky" crap is over. The waiting 3 years before a player can product on the field is moronic at this point. So much wasted talent on this team, because it is being mis-managed. Depressing

Who's talent is being wasted?

[Chadman]

I agree with this. Ben is living on a reputation that no longer matches reality. He is supposed to be clutch and instead he is garbage when we need him most. Take away his sloppy, bone head plays, and we win this game. I am sick of his sloppy BS. And then add in Tomlin's sloppy decision making (who makes a 56-yarder at Heinz, but the head coach isn't aware of it?) and you have the recipe for many losses. It's really broken at this point. Art better roll up his sleeves and get to work.

With all due respect- this is rubbish. Ben was going great before he got seriously hurt. When neither Batch or Leftwich instilled a great degree of confidence, Ben was rushed back in to start (as is what always seems to happen) & has looked out of sorts since then. Do we totally disregard the beginning of the year to emphasis your argument?

Of course, as Ben was doing great, the Defense was struggling. Now that the defense is playing well, Ben is struggling. It's been one of those sorts of years.

For all the 'blame' Ben deserves for his subpar games since his return- it's still the 8 fumble game & Brown's double-fumble brain meltdown that cost the Steelers 2 wins since Ben's return. You take away Brown's return-fumble & the Steelers beat the Cowboys. You take away the 8 fumbles vs the Browns, and you don't lose by 6 points.

You put 2 wins in the Steelers column, and how do the playoffs look?

[papillon]

With all due respect- this is rubbish. Ben was going great before he got seriously hurt. When neither Batch or Leftwich instilled a great degree of confidence, Ben was rushed back in to start (as is what always seems to happen) & has looked out of sorts since then. Do we totally disregard the beginning of the year to emphasis your argument?

Of course, as Ben was doing great, the Defense was struggling. Now that the defense is playing well, Ben is struggling. It's been one of those sorts of years.

For all the 'blame' Ben deserves for his subpar games since his return- it's still the 8 fumble game & Brown's double-fumble brain meltdown that cost the Steelers 2 wins since Ben's return. You take away Brown's return-fumble & the Steelers beat the Cowboys. You take away the 8 fumbles vs the Browns, and you don't lose by 6 points.

You put 2 wins in the Steelers column, and how do the playoffs look?

There's no use trying to convince those that believe Ben is nothing more than an average quarterback playing behind a great defense for the past 9 years as anything different, it's futile. This year alone through week 9 the media, fans and pundits had Ben in the MVP race and then the freak injury on what appeared to be an innocuous type tackle and the season spiraled out of control. If anything, it proves Ben's worth to the team rather than his lack of ability.

The same with the defense, now its not good enough to simply hold the other team to miniscule numbers of points, but they should be putting points on the board as the #1 defense in the NFL. If you're expecting points from the defense then you're admitting the offense has issues. The defense's job is to get the ball back to the offense without allowing points and regardless of where that puts the ball it then becomes the offense's job to score the points. Hoping for a pick 6, strip sack and score, blocked punt and score, etc is folly; stop the opponent from scoring and put your offense on the field, that's the goal. It's nice when that happens at midfield or in positive territory, but it shouldn't be a requirement of a good defense and that's what the Steelers had a good defense.

Some fans lose their marbles when things go south, fire Tomlin, Lebeau is old, Haley is an idiot (same fans that wanted Arians gone, now want Haley run out of town on a rail), Kugler gets the offensive linemen injured, etc, etc its the same old lament. Fortunately, the Steeler front office is smarter than all of us and hold the ship steady during these types of years which are far and few between.

Pappy

[Jooser]

Well to clarify my stance, I think Ben is a great QB, but I do maintain he's self-centered and has to get his way to be happy. If not, he's like a disgruntled 3 yr old bucking the world until things fall into place the way he wants them to. There's no argument he was having a good season prior to his injury, but he looks like a shell of himself since returning, and I don't exactly buy the reasoning for this is ALL the injury. His head isn't in it. He seems very distracted and has made some very poor decisions (i.e. holding the ball way too long and taking sacks and throwing INTs). So, to be fair, you live and die by him. By that reasoning, when he plays great, he's worthy of praise, but when he's playing like a bonehead, then he's worthy of criticism. One doesn't erase the other. The last three weeks, the whole team has come out and given a stinker effort, and Ben was among them. It's easy to misread one's true intentions when typing on a message board I suppose because there's no face of emotion or inflection of voice to measure the true meaning that one is trying to express, so I suppose I offer a bit of an apology for sounding off so harshly after the last month's debacle performances. If we beat the Browns then the season ends on a good note, but they'll have their hands full for sure.

-Joos out

[papillon]

Well to clarify my stance, I think Ben is a great QB, but I do maintain he's self-centered and has to get his way to be happy. If not, he's like a disgruntled 3 yr old bucking the world until things fall into place the way he wants them to. There's no argument he was having a good season prior to his injury, but he looks like a shell of himself since returning, and I don't exactly buy the reasoning for this is ALL the injury. His head isn't in it. He seems very distracted and has made some very poor decisions (i.e. holding the ball way too long and taking sacks and throwing INTs). So, to be fair, you live and die by him. By that reasoning, when he plays great, he's worthy of praise, but when he's playing like a bonehead, then he's worthy of criticism. One doesn't erase the other. The last three weeks, the whole team has come out and given a stinker effort, and Ben was among them. It's easy to misread one's true intentions when typing on a message board I suppose because there's no face of emotion or inflection of voice to measure the true meaning that one is trying to express, so I suppose I offer a bit of an apology for sounding off so harshly after the last month's debacle performances. If we beat the Browns then the season ends on a good note, but they'll have their hands full for sure.

-Joos out

My question would be: Why would he throw in the towel the second half of the season if it isn't injury related? I mentioned in another post the specific throws that caused him issues are the ones where his body may not be square to the target and he has turn at the waist and the try to deliver a pass horizontally. He appeared to have plenty of zip when facing downfield and stepping into the throw with his shoulders square to the target. It was those screens and quick hitches to the right or left that were bouncing to the receivers. These throws probably caused him pain since he couldn't square himself to make the throw, just my opinion of course.

Ben is a lot of things, but one thing I've never seen him do is give up, ever and I doubt we'll ever see it. it's too coincidental that his play after injury was less than stellar and he was in the MVP discussion prior.

Pappy

[NorthCoast]

My question would be: Why would he throw in the towel the second half of the season if it isn't injury related? I mentioned in another post the specific throws that caused him issues are the ones where his body may not be square to the target and he has turn at the waist and the try to deliver a pass horizontally. He appeared to have plenty of zip when facing downfield and stepping into the throw with his shoulders square to the target. It was those screens and quick hitches to the right or left that were bouncing to the receivers. These throws probably caused him pain since he couldn't square himself to make the throw, just my opinion of course.

Ben is a lot of things, but one thing I've never seen him do is give up, ever and I doubt we'll ever see it. it's too coincidental that his play after injury was less than stellar and he was in the MVP discussion prior.

Pappy

None of us will ever know the true extent of Ben's injury on his playing psyche. If the rib injury was as serious as they said in the media, wouldn't it cause him to think that every time he turned, was hit, or move in the wrong manner it could permanently damage his heart... or even kill him? I think that would certainly weigh on me. Maybe the Steelers $100M investment forces him to think that even though injured, he still has to play to give the team the best chance to win. If Ben had never put together amazing game-winning drives, we would certainly have room to question him. But he, in fact, has proved he can do it.

Ben is the least of my worries on this team.

[lloydroid]

If Ben had never put together amazing game-winning drives, we would certainly have room to question him. But he, in fact, has proved he can do it.


He proved he can do it, yes. But he hasn't proven it as of late, so much. Since 2008, he hasn't quite lived up to his same game-saving heroics. How many times this season has he come up FAIL? Ben might not be our biggest worry, but his current state, all things considered, isn't without some concern, including his stature of team leader. I am sensing that there is a fracture in this team's unity, and some of it is stemming from #7. That is starting to emerge.

[NorthCoast]

He proved he can do it, yes. But he hasn't proven it as of late, so much. Since 2008, he hasn't quite lived up to his same game-saving heroics. How many times this season has he come up FAIL? Ben might not be our biggest worry, but his current state, all things considered, isn't without some concern, including his stature of team leader. I am sensing that there is a fracture in this team's unity, and some of it is stemming from #7. That is starting to emerge.

Selective memory.... apparently his 14 play 64 yd drive to win in Philly this season doesn't count.... or perhaps his 8 play 67 yd drive to win in Cincy... or maybe the 2 min drive last year in Indy for a field goal to win ?.... shall I continue??

[lloydroid]

Selective memory.... apparently his 14 play 64 yd drive to win in Philly this season doesn't count.... or perhaps his 8 play 67 yd drive to win in Cincy... or maybe the 2 min drive last year in Indy for a field goal to win ?.... shall I continue??

Yea, needing to work miracles to beat bad teams. Great. KC as well. They should have been up by 21 in most of those games. Needing miracles to beat bads teams isn't really what I was talking about here.