Beyond Haley, How Do the Steelers Fix the Offense?? (Per DukieBoy's request)

[SidSmythe]

Beyond Haley, How Do the Steelers Fix the Offense?? (Per DukieBoy's request) :p

A Healthy O-Line would be nice.

BUT I SAY:
-get rid of the RB by committee approach. Develop a TOP back and go with Him.
-Let Wallace walk ... He's an all or nothing guy. We need someone who's passionate about not only making big plays but doing the little things.
-A good 2nd TE would help

[DukieBoy]

Thanks.

I think what needs to be fixed include:
Team leadership
Commitment to the Team
Cohesiveness (damaged by selfishness)
Discipline
Strategy
Coaching decisions
Sacks
Turnovers
Arrogance
Overweight OL's who lack agility and get injured (or injure their own teammates) too easily.

This 2012 team has failed to live up to the Steerers legacy each of the players and coachers have been lucky to be part of. Some self-examination and changes are needed.



On the defensive side ...
I just want to say that Lewis was an absolute warrior today, as was Cortez, Timmons, and Keisel. And Troy was incredible beyond all else. On the other hand, Woodley seems to play lazy alot. We are better off with Worilds in that spot.

[SidSmythe]

Not going to point a finger at the DEFENSE this year. They weren't perfect and not as dominant as their #1 ranking would prefer, but I am so disappointed with our offense I just wanna overhaul the whole system.

[flippy]

Good list Dukie.

I'd add it might be time to consider bringing in and developing a young QB. And fix the OLine. I dont know if it's the players, the coaching, or the conditioning. We need to bring in someone who can do for the Oline what Lake has done for the secondary.

[costanza2k1]

Get a OL coach to match the athleticism of lineman. Get someone fill a leadership roll on the O, Ben clearly can't handle anyone let alone himself without crying.

[DukieBoy]

BTW, reports on twitter are saying Heath has a torn ACL. That will need to be fixed, too. He has been great again this year.

[Eddie Spaghetti]

Get a OL coach to match the athleticism of lineman. Get someone fill a leadership roll on the O, Ben clearly can't handle anyone let alone himself without crying.

bens maturity level needs to improve big time.

[costanza2k1]

bens maturity level needs to improve big time.
At this point in his career, got to wonder if it's too late for that...I mean we are heading into the stretch part of the season and he's still moping around crying about plays...seems to me he's at the ball in his hands in a no huddle situation to win multiple games and he couldn't deliver.

[jj28west]

Well said Dukie.

There are things that transpired behind the scenes that resulted in such a poor "buy in" to Haley's philosophy as the season wore on.

We will probably never know exactly what happened and when it happened but it became pretty obvious in the finished product on Sundays.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Get more consistent play from the QB. More consistent play from the QB will make everyone on offense better. More consistent play from the QB position isn't going to come to fruition as long as Ben remains the QB. I don't see Ben going anywhere. This is the offense the Steelers will have as long as Ben remains the QB. It's the way the offense has been since Ben became the Steelers "offense".

[williar]

Get more consistent play from the QB. More consistent play from the QB will make everyone on offense better. More consistent play from the QB position isn't going to come to fruition as long as Ben remains the QB. I don't see Ben going anywhere. This is the offense the Steelers will have as long as Ben remains the QB. It's the way the offense has been since Ben became the Steelers "offense".

The cold, hard TRUTH...

[Jigawatts]

I think the problem is the basics. Teams like the Patriots are great year after year because they do the things 6 year olds are taught. Steelers don't.
I don't know if that's coaching or the player. I guess you have to draft the right kind of INDIVIDUAL that doesn't need to be coached like he's a first grader.

[NJ-STEELER]

it might get worse

with wally gone and mendy likley gone too. the way this team goes about trying to get skill players scares me.

is there another team out there with worse pedigree (draft order) then our skill positions?

yet, the majority of mocks im seeing from posters want defense at the top of the draft. I dont get it

[NJ-STEELER]

and now our only returning high 1st rounder skill position player (heath) will be coming off a major injury

[lloydroid]

bens maturity level needs to improve big time.

I guess getting married and having a baby isn't a miracle cure on the maturity front. Oh well.

[SS Laser]

I guess getting married and having a baby isn't a miracle cure on the maturity front. Oh well.

that is beast and epic!:moon

[SidSmythe]

Kinda Missing B.A. for real!!! especially after watching him succeed in INDY :HeadBanger

[Snatch98]

and now our only returning high 1st rounder skill position player (heath) will be coming off a major injury

He'll be fine. He's not making Antonio Brown cuts and he has from now until next august to recover. If he's not back right way I liked what I saw out of Paulsen and we'll be seeing more against the Browns.

[SidSmythe]

He'll be fine. He's not making Antonio Brown cuts and he has from now until next august to recover. If he's not back right way I liked what I saw out of Paulsen and we'll be seeing more against the Browns.

Not sure what you're liking so much about PAULSON ... I'm thinking he's a 3rd TE at this point.

For a team using so much 2 TE sets, you'd think they'd get themselves a quality #2 guy. IMO I think not having a quality #2 TE is like not having a quality #2 WR on the field. I watch Paulson go out on pass routes and he's just a non factor. Especially against man to man!!

[williar]

Trade Ben Roethlisberger! I'd rather go 7-9 with an upstart rookie with an upside who is willing to learn and grow with the system, rather than continue down this trek with a dumb, uncoachable QB with a bad attitude trying to sabotage the system because he didn't get his way.

[steelfin]

Trade Ben Roethlisberger! I'd rather go 7-9 with an upstart rookie with an upside who is willing to learn and grow with the system, rather than continue down this trek with a dumb, uncoachable QB with a bad attitude trying to sabotage the system because he didn't get his way.

That is all speculation on your part....and IMO, nonsense....

I do however, feel we need to draft a QB and begin the grooming process...

[SidSmythe]

This ANTI BEN stuff is LAUGHABLE!!!!

We're talking about a guy before he was injured was in the talks about MVP.

Lets trade a 2 time Superbowl winning QB who's barely in his 30s for the hope of getting the next Russell Wilson or Andrew Luck???
I swear whenever the Steelers lose, some Steeler fans just go out of their minds.

[Steelersdude]

Beyond Haley, How Do the Steelers Fix the Offense?? (Per DukieBoy's request) :p

A Healthy O-Line would be nice.

BUT I SAY:
-get rid of the RB by committee approach. Develop a TOP back and go with Him.
-Let Wallace walk ... He's an all or nothing guy. We need someone who's passionate about not only making big plays but doing the little things.
-A good 2nd TE would help

Agree...Mendenhall should be carrying the rock and a good TE to back-up Heath would be great.

Disagree about wallace. He has speed to stretch defense and open underneath routes for TE, plus because of his crappy year no other team will want to pay him what he wants and we keep him for cheap.

[NJ-STEELER]

Not sure what you're liking so much about PAULSON ... I'm thinking he's a 3rd TE at this point.

For a team using so much 2 TE sets, you'd think they'd get themselves a quality #2 guy. IMO I think not having a quality #2 TE is like not having a quality #2 WR on the field. I watch Paulson go out on pass routes and he's just a non factor. Especially against man to man!!


thats my thinking too. good 3rd. maybe get a good blcoker as the #2 so heath can work the routes.

and dont forget it was paulsen who got blown off the line and had the ball hit him in the arse when SD recovered in the end zone

[Sugar]

This ANTI BEN stuff is LAUGHABLE!!!!

We're talking about a guy before he was injured was in the talks about MVP.

Lets trade a 2 time Superbowl winning QB who's barely in his 30s for the hope of getting the next Russell Wilson or Andrew Luck???
I swear whenever the Steelers lose, some Steeler fans just go out of their minds.

Agreed. I thought the board might be in meltdown when I hopped on, but some of this stuff is beyond stupid. Can people be mad and vent without being stupid?

This season hasn't turned out the way we envisioned. It sucks. I, for one, would settle for getting healthy in the offseason and feeling the seldom felt pain of missing the playoffs while the Bengals get to go. The Bengals "fans" all around me are ecstatic when they go 8-8. For us, the possibility is football misery. That said, we have a lot of good things going for the Steelers and I'm looking forward to seeing how they set things right.

[SDSteel1]

This ANTI BEN stuff is LAUGHABLE!!!!

We're talking about a guy before he was injured was in the talks about MVP.

Lets trade a 2 time Superbowl winning QB who's barely in his 30s for the hope of getting the next Russell Wilson or Andrew Luck???
I swear whenever the Steelers lose, some Steeler fans just go out of their minds.

Have you watched the last 2 weeks of Steeler football? Charlie Batch could have won both games. Ben was the problem, and whether it was due to lack of preparation or due to trying to make Hailey look bad is inmaterial. Ben surly didn't play to his contract numbers, and he showed attitude by blaming the OC. The message was received by this longtime Steeler fan.

[NW Steeler]

Agreed. I thought the board might be in meltdown when I hopped on, but some of this stuff is beyond stupid. Can people be mad and vent without being stupid?

This season hasn't turned out the way we envisioned. It sucks. I, for one, would settle for getting healthy in the offseason and feeling the seldom felt pain of missing the playoffs while the Bengals get to go. The Bengals "fans" all around me are ecstatic when they go 8-8. For us, the possibility is football misery. That said, we have a lot of good things going for the Steelers and I'm looking forward to seeing how they set things right.

Thank God not everyone on here has lost their mind.

[eniparadoxgma]

This ANTI BEN stuff is LAUGHABLE!!!!

We're talking about a guy before he was injured was in the talks about MVP.

Lets trade a 2 time Superbowl winning QB who's barely in his 30s for the hope of getting the next Russell Wilson or Andrew Luck???
I swear whenever the Steelers lose, some Steeler fans just go out of their minds.

I was going to say the same thing. It really seems that he hasn't been the same since that injury.


Have you watched the last 2 weeks of Steeler football? Charlie Batch could have won both games. Ben was the problem, and whether it was due to lack of preparation or due to trying to make Hailey look bad is inmaterial. Ben surly didn't play to his contract numbers, and he showed attitude by blaming the OC. The message was received by this longtime Steeler fan.

Batch could have won both games? Are you even serious? Ben is the best QB we have. Yes, he didn't play well the past couple of weeks and definitely lost us both games with crappy INTs. Yes, he did call out the OC but after years of always taking the blame himself do you think it just wasn't even possible that he might get frustrated and say something at some point? I don't agree with him saying it in the media but all of you people saying Ben is intentionally throwing games in order to get the OC out of town need to take off your tinfoil hats.

Regardless, I expect this to go on deaf years. Everyone's pissed about being out of the playoffs, how we played the last four games, and how the season went altogether. I am too. But when "GET RID OF BEN" and "Ben sabotaged the season in order to get rid of the OC" starts getting thrown around I have to question whether people can be upset without completely losing their minds.


Agreed. I thought the board might be in meltdown when I hopped on, but some of this stuff is beyond stupid. Can people be mad and vent without being stupid?

What he said^

[SDSteel1]

So you don't think Batch could have hit an open Mike Wallace today and wouldn't have avoided throwing 2 pick sixs in consecutive weeks? Then why is Batch even on the roster? The problem we have is Ben is the only QB on the roster. No one is his competition. He isn't competing for his job. He looks complacent, and complacent doesn't win championships, complacent makes excuses. Before we fall into the Terry Bradshaw curse, get a good young guy in here to push Ben or to take over for him. Our line should be pretty good next year, our receivers and TE are top notch, and our defense is always strong...we need an MLB and maybe a safety in the draft, but get someone in that is hungry to play and win, and see how that affects Big Ben...until that happens Ben will do what Ben wants to do....which hasn't been good for the Steelers of late.

[NJ-STEELER]

receivers top notch??

what a joke.

they would be lucky to rank in the top 20

[hawaiiansteel]

receivers top notch??

what a joke.

they would be lucky to rank in the top 20

how did our #1 WR who wants to be paid $11 million/year do today?

oh, he had 1 catch for 13 yards?

[jj28west]

Just to put in perspective look at Seahawks, 49ers, Redskins, Colts did on offense with Rook QB's.

What happened to Game management offenses for rook QB's?

Now these teams are putting 40+ points against good defenses.

[SDSteel1]

receivers top notch??

what a joke.

they would be lucky to rank in the top 20

You have to be able to throw it to them for them to catch it. The joke is the QB and the way he called it in.

[jj28west]

Does anyone know if the reporters asked Big Ben why he did not audible when the Bengals loaded the box and dared him to throw? He seemed frustrated when Dwyer ran down the middle and was being met in the backfield without being able to make a break.

Its just strange he did not audible out of these plays. Maybe the OL was limited?

[eniparadoxgma]

So you don't think Batch could have hit an open Mike Wallace today and wouldn't have avoided throwing 2 pick sixs in consecutive weeks? Then why is Batch even on the roster? The problem we have is Ben is the only QB on the roster. No one is his competition. He isn't competing for his job. He looks complacent, and complacent doesn't win championships, complacent makes excuses. Before we fall into the Terry Bradshaw curse, get a good young guy in here to push Ben or to take over for him. Our line should be pretty good next year, our receivers and TE are top notch, and our defense is always strong...we need an MLB and maybe a safety in the draft, but get someone in that is hungry to play and win, and see how that affects Big Ben...until that happens Ben will do what Ben wants to do....which hasn't been good for the Steelers of late.

So, you're saying that Batch should have played the last two games and would have won them? That's very easy to do...in hindsight. I don't recall you starting any "BENCH BEN, START BATCH" threads any time in the past two weeks. Why is that?

No, I don't think Batch would have won those games. I agree that we should bring in a young QB. The rest of the "Ben will do what Ben will do", "Ben is throwing games" etc I only see as attempts at armchair psychoanalysis.

[SDSteel1]

So, you're saying that Batch should have played the last two games and would have won them? That's very easy to do...in hindsight. I don't recall you starting any "BENCH BEN, START BATCH" threads any time in the past two weeks. Why is that?

No, I don't think Batch would have won those games. I agree that we should bring in a young QB. The rest of the "Ben will do what Ben will do", "Ben is throwing games" etc I only see as attempts at armchair psychoanalysis.

I never said we should start Batch, but Ben has to get back to "managing the game". I like the fact that he has the ability to singlehandedly change the game at anytime, but when that turns to him singlehandedly losing games and doing things that hurt the team then it's time for him to start playing within himself. He is missing open receivers and open reads. If the team is in the position to win with a final drive he can't lose the game an expect people to consider him elite and untouchable just because he has 2 rings. You are only as good as your last game, so in my opinion that means Ben isn't very good right now. If Ben isn't playing to the standard and at least not losing games by himself, the discussion about the teams future has to start with him.

[NJ-STEELER]

how did our #1 WR who wants to be paid $11 million/year do today?

oh, he had 1 catch for 13 yards?


not too good

when you draft raw 3 rd WRs to be the center of ur receiving corps..you're gonna have warts.

i'd hate to see this offense without him without adequately replacing him.
crap, 99% of this board is complaining how bad the offense is. whats it going to look like without one of its more dangerous weapons. do you think the FO is going out there and spending big $$ to to bring in someone and fix the problem of the lack of big time play makers

BYW, did wallace tell you himself thats what he wanted. i havent seen it in print

[NJ-STEELER]

You have to be able to throw it to them for them to catch it. The joke is the QB and the way he called it in.

no the joke is you SD with some of the dumbest BS i've seen on the interent in the last month (not an easy task)

you're close to 43's level...congrats

[eniparadoxgma]

I never said we should start Batch, but Ben has to get back to "managing the game". I like the fact that he has the ability to singlehandedly change the game at anytime, but when that turns to him singlehandedly losing games and doing things that hurt the team then it's time for him to start playing within himself. He is missing open receivers and open reads. If the team is in the position to win with a final drive he can't lose the game an expect people to consider him elite and untouchable just because he has 2 rings. You are only as good as your last game, so in my opinion that means Ben isn't very good right now. If Ben isn't playing to the standard and at least not losing games by himself, the discussion about the teams future has to start with him.

My apologies then. When you said:


Have you watched the last 2 weeks of Steeler football? Charlie Batch could have won both games. Ben was the problem, and whether it was due to lack of preparation or due to trying to make Hailey look bad is inmaterial. Ben surly didn't play to his contract numbers, and he showed attitude by blaming the OC. The message was received by this longtime Steeler fan.

...it seemed to me your point was that Batch would have given us the better chance to win. IMO Ben has always had the ability to win or lose games for us because of his style of play. This debate has been going on for years and I think that it's impossible to have it both ways. I agree that he hasn't been playing well since he came back but think that has more to do with injury than him being head-strong or unwilling to work with the OC.

[DBR96A]

I swear whenever the Steelers lose, some Steeler fans just go out of their minds.
What minds?

[lloydroid]

That is all speculation on your part....and IMO, nonsense....

I do however, feel we need to draft a QB and begin the grooming process...

Only a late draft pick or free agent would make sense

[hawaiiansteel]

Only a late draft pick or free agent would make sense

I completely agree, Ben is our QB that we are going to live and die with. what's the point in using a high draft pick to sit on the bench behind Ben when we have so many other holes to fill?

[grotonsteel]

I completely agree, Ben is our QB that we are going to live and die with. what's the point in using a high draft pick to sit on the bench behind Ben when we have so many other holes to fill?

I might go as high as 3rd Rd if there is a QB which Steelers can develop in 3-4 years or maybe a FA Backup QB. Time to let Lefty and Batch go.

I don't want Steelers to waste any draft picks on a token QB in late rounds. Steelers are better of drafting some ST stud in late rounds.

[grotonsteel]

Have you watched the last 2 weeks of Steeler football? Charlie Batch could have won both games. Ben was the problem, and whether it was due to lack of preparation or due to trying to make Hailey look bad is inmaterial. Ben surly didn't play to his contract numbers, and he showed attitude by blaming the OC. The message was received by this longtime Steeler fan.

Wow what stupid allegations. Ben played bad to to make Hailey look bad??? Ben did nothing. Hailey is one stupid OC. Yes he is worse than BA. His stupid run-run-pass-punt offense is outright pathetic. If Ben was not having a great 3rd down percentage Hailey might have looked worse. Haley never utilized the strength of his offensive players properly. Hailey's offense is predictable. Opponents knew Hailey's tendency.

Ben was the problem in Dallas game??? Did we watch the same game???Ben was the reason Steelers were still in the game. Antonio Brown screwed up Dallas game. Dallas game should have never gone into OT if AB84 had kept up his end. Blame AB84 not only for Dallas game but Oakland game too.

Bengals game was all on Ben. He had his worst game against Bengals.

[papillon]

So you don't think Batch could have hit an open Mike Wallace today and wouldn't have avoided throwing 2 pick sixs in consecutive weeks? Then why is Batch even on the roster? The problem we have is Ben is the only QB on the roster. No one is his competition. He isn't competing for his job. He looks complacent, and complacent doesn't win championships, complacent makes excuses. Before we fall into the Terry Bradshaw curse, get a good young guy in here to push Ben or to take over for him. Our line should be pretty good next year, our receivers and TE are top notch, and our defense is always strong...we need an MLB and maybe a safety in the draft, but get someone in that is hungry to play and win, and see how that affects Big Ben...until that happens Ben will do what Ben wants to do....which hasn't been good for the Steelers of late.

I'm almost certain that Batch couldn't have hit a wide open Mike Wallace on Sunday, because the first thing he would have had to do was scramble out of a collapsing pocket. He may or may not have thrown the INT in Dallas, chances are he wouldn't have, because he realizes that he doesn't have the arm strength to get the ball out wide and into a tiny window. Ben[s problem on that throw was accuracy, he threw it too far to the inside and it was picked. His accuracy has been at issue since his return in my opinion. Throws in which he didn't have to turn his body left or right were being made in fine fashion, but the moment he had to reset his feet to the right or left and didn't get his body square to the target his throws were inaccurate and weakened. He bounced 3 or 4 WR screens and quick outs in the last three games that he rarely bounces.

Just my take, we all get an opinion, Ben played poorly to be sure, but I certainly believe injuries played a part in that bad play. Ben's combination of unorthodox style and injury is a bad combination, because to make some of the throws Ben makes he needs his arm and shoulder to be at 100%. He tried to make throws that he makes when he's 100% healthy and was unable to make them at something less than 100% and it cost the Steelers dearly, IMO.

Pappy

[steelfin]

I completely agree, Ben is our QB that we are going to live and die with. what's the point in using a high draft pick to sit on the bench behind Ben when we have so many other holes to fill?

I agree, just didnt elaborate...Ben is the franchise QB...but we need to have a young QB in the wings in the event of injury (which is likely)....

[SidSmythe]

Lets just hope we don't draft the next Kordell Stewart project as our next QB.

I really liked Kirk Cousins coming out of the draft last year....if he was there in the 4th I would have loved to grab him.